|
I would like to present you with another suspect: motbob.
He basically only posted twice, asking for BWdero's profile picture and ran for Sheriff, and hasn't posted since. In his Sheriff post he promised high activity. Why isn't he being as active as he should be if he wasn't elected? Why did he abstain from voting?
That salesman clue indeed could refer to his quote "Join Teamliquid Whatpulse Team!", and I don't think it's as weak as you would think, because I don't see anything else in anyone else's profiles resembling anything like trying to get something sold. That's the only thing I could connect to him, though. He still seems suspicious, and might be worth considering for tomorrow.
|
Awww it's too bad that Koopie so adamantly believes I'm mafia. And the reason Jimtudor was on my list you can see in the day 2 post.
I have only been trying to post useful content. I'd have been posting a bit less if I didn't feel like I had to comment on something. I have been reading past posts and analyzing things quite a bit. I don't really like posting when I don't have complete information. I'll try to post something more interesting in the future. For now, I'm going to present my new and improved
Medic List: crate zeks teks vx70GTOJudgexv ydg iLoveKTF
Basically, I've added ydg because he has been useful to the town, primarily with his clue analysis. Otherwise, the once change was that Jimtudor was removed for obvious reasons.
|
Actually, most of the "clues" for Jayme seem to be quite weak. Especially the so much talked about "crepiscular" one; Why would the clue about a killer be in that sentence? It makes no sense. Furthermore, the clues are mostly picked from all over the posts. That doesn't make much sense either. People have been linking all kinds of movement, creeping and dark things to that cat, although they could mean so many different things, and it makes no sense to have so many clues pointing at one player. And the python being an ambushing animal seems quite far-fetched.
I'm not saying that Jayme is innocent. I'm just saying that maybe you shouldn't bandwagon for him so pointlessly, and maybe think about it for a while. The clues aren't as strong as they seem.
That being said, his behavior admittably has been relatively suspicious. Although I still have a bad feeling about all this bandwagoning.
|
Ok. With that vote, I would like to present another suspect: epicdoom. Reason is obvious, but if you want it, highly suspicious voting and he hasn't posted at all.
|
On May 22 2009 08:54 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2009 08:45 Shikyo wrote: Ok. With that vote, I would like to present another suspect: epicdoom. Reason is obvious, but if you want it, highly suspicious voting and he hasn't posted at all. Possibly, or maybe he just voted for the heck of it, because no one's gonna follow him and lynch teks UNLESS he is a mafia and the other mafia vote for teks too, but that would be dumb, like saying "WE'RE MAFIA!" so I don't know I'm confused Most likely he's just a stupid mafia. There's no way a townie would act like that. And if one did, I'd want him dead regardless.
|
On May 22 2009 20:08 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: His profile quote is "Britney 2010. I believe. <3" - Not much help there.
Actually...
Apparently Britney Spears has this perfume called Believe.
http://www.britneyspearsbelieve.com/
As you can see as you enter the site, there are many different, flashy colors. It almost hurts your eyes. That site is also definitely trying to get something sold, so the salesman would make sense.
Now, what might be the long metal bar the salesman is hitting his victim with? Oh, that's right. Britney Spears.
|
On May 22 2009 22:04 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: For the record, while I was doing some other research:
Softer got killed by mafia.
The only major contribution softer made was the "eerily crepuscular" connection to Jayme's cat picture.
Coincidence? Maybe, but it might hold some weight. Another was that we should lynch inactives. In fact, I believe that we all should go back and check which players were against lynching inactives.
|
On May 22 2009 21:58 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2009 21:50 Shikyo wrote:On May 22 2009 20:08 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: His profile quote is "Britney 2010. I believe. <3" - Not much help there.
Actually... Apparently Britney Spears has this perfume called Believe. http://www.britneyspearsbelieve.com/As you can see as you enter the site, there are many different, flashy colors. It almost hurts your eyes. That site is also definitely trying to get something sold, so the salesman would make sense. Now, what might be the long metal bar the salesman is hitting his victim with? Oh, that's right. Britney Spears. I think the spear is a bit of a stretch but... the rest is a really good analysis. I'll have more to come... The spear indeed feels like a stretch. However, it would have been way too simple if it had simply stated that it is a spear, so I believe that's what it could be.
|
On May 22 2009 21:43 zeks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2009 21:36 teks wrote:Great post Judge. vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
One thing that's confusing me about the people who are accusing Shikyo because jimtudor was on the medic list is they are only accusing Shikyo. You do realize jimtudor was on other people's medic lists (including my own), right? Yet the only one they accuse of any suspicion based on that is Shikyo. Not only that, but putting Jimtudor on the medic list was a GOOD townie call, and mostly everyone agreed on it. How on earth is that suspicious? 1) Jimtudor was a bodyguard, so his spot on the list was correct 2) He was hit by the mafia How would it benefit the mafia to put their own target on the medic list? "But teks, don't you get it? If Jimtudor wasn't on the list, the medics would protect him because they think he's likely to get hit. He's high profiled, yet not on the list!" Even if the list isn't "a list on who the medics should or should not protect, only a list of the people deemed important to the town" - this is a game with a lot of new players, chances are that the medics are new players as well. The safest call for the new medic players would be to protect someone on that list because they'd know the town would support that. Mafia may want to have a mixed list maybe? Would mafia want to make the whole medic list full of mafia?
Why would mafia place someone they were planning on hitting on the medic list? I assume you think that the mysterious third hit indeed was a second hit for Jimtudor? In that case, why do you feel like they thought that Jimtudor was worth spending 2 hits on?
|
On May 22 2009 23:06 zeks wrote: Because jim was a good enough contributer that he can't simply be ignored to be part of the medic list. Use crate as an example. He's pretty much unanimously agreed upon to be part of the medic list. Mafia have no choice but to put him on their lists. Is he exempt from being hit justbecause he's on a stupid list? Hell no because it'd be more suspicious not to put him on a list when he's done so much. Medic list isn't an immunity list (like JeeJee said). In fact it might be a warning from the mafiathat even the medic list may not be as safe as we think. Didn't you just say that it was suspicious for me to put him on the list? And then you're saying he was a good hit for the mafia, enough to warrant 2 hits? Wouldn't he then be a good pick for me to put on the list.
Also, weren't you just a while ago saying that the mafia using 2 hits on jimtudor was highly unlikely? What exactly changed that made you change your opinion?
|
On May 23 2009 09:26 crate wrote:Do you think we can get two mafia each on day 3 and 4? Considering the wealth of names that have been coming up as suspects I'm completely confident. Sure. + Show Spoiler +On the one hand, double lynch tomorrow is the least risk of the town just getting overwhelmed by a mafia bandwagon (especially if Shikyo is red, which gives the mafia two extra votes). On the other hand ... not sure we'll have enough information to out two mafia by the end of Day 3. Waiting till day 4 doesn't doom the town even if we whiff today and Day 3 as long as we have a near-perfect record from there and as long as inactives don't doom us. My first guess is that I'd rather wait but with the way this town jumped down Jayme's throat I'm certainly not positive that's the right choice. If the mafia get just a couple innocents to start a bandwagon then those players don't check back.... + Show Spoiler + I think today is a lost cause, assuming Jayme turns green. If he turns red, I'd be extremely surprised. However, I definitely think it's possible to get 2 mafia on both days, especially if we get some more clues on day 3.
At this point I'd like to ask, what exactly makes you think that I'm mafia? So many people are suspecting me as mafia but don't really give me any reasons. Putting Jimtudor on the medic list? I'm not sure what to say about that. Not contributing? I don't know which thread you are reading. My profile is empty, so all the clues should be about my name.
Japanese English shikyo death
Maybe you, Koopie, Foolisness and whoever else should now spend a while trying to think of clues pointing to me. You know, it really shouldn't be that hard, since a person dies every time a mafia lynches someone, right? I'm looking forward to reading your suggestions.
Actually, wasn't Koopie really confident that I was mafia, for no reason once again? I actually PMed her, asking why she thought that. And what do you know, she hasn't been around since. That's suspicious if anything. Koopie, why haven't you answered? Don't you know it's rude?
In that MSN conversation, she also wanted iLoveKTF on the medic list, saying that he had contributed a lot; more than Jimtudor, for instance. She seemed to be quite mad at me for putting Jimtudor on the medic list. And then Jimtudor gets hit the following night? It's possible that she's just a stupid townie, but she really hasn't even been TRYING to help the town, at all. Accuse -> disappear -> accuse -> disappear. I'd like you to at least respond to my PM.
As we could see in the msn logs, as well as the thread itself, she was for whatever reason strongly defending iLoveKTF and wanted him on the medic list. Why might that be? iLoveKTF really hasn't contributed to the town AT ALL. Most of his posts just appear to contain something, but are in fact essentially empty.
So, let's talk about iLoveKTF for a while, shall we? Warning: this is going to be LONG. I've decided to spoiler it in order for the post to not take up 5 screens. But don't you dare to argue with me without having read it all. + Show Spoiler +"I have decided on this before I have received my role. I will be running for office, either one will do, but I prefer to be Mayor." Says he decided on this before receiving his role as an attempt to gain trust. He prefers to be Mayor. Note: In crate's analysis, he came to the conclusion(as did I) that Mayor is more important to MAFIA, Sheriff more important to TOWN. Well, it's not like it's strange for a townie to especially ask for mayor(although I can't think of a reason), is it? So maybe he still has good intentions, let's be positive. The rest of his office consisted of him saying that he played well as a medic in the last game; Nothing about what he'll do this game. After this, he spends a couple of posts adding nothing. Just random commenting about rules and about the day 1 post's style. Note: No attempt at clue analysis. After a little bit of spam, he just is quiet for a while. After this, he tells me he wants the first lynch more than the Sheriff skills. Why might that be? Well, incarcenation is extremely suspicious for mafia to do. If they incarcenate for no reason, they'll be in the meat grinder next. And why would he think that the first lynch is so important, since the town will most likely decide on someone themselves, anyway? Well, he basically tells us to vote for him again. Ok. Now, let's pick out the interesting, suspicious posts that come by next. Oh, he makes a post, where he says that the medic list is the first priority after elections. Sounds reasonable. However, a few posts after that, he makes a fascinating post. Let me quote an interesting part of it. On May 19 2009 10:57 iLoveKTF wrote:I suggest we scratch the medic list and trust on our medic's decision on who he/she will protect for night 1. Medics, we trust in you... Wait, so he suggests us to not have a medic list after all, right after proposing one himself? Especially in a game meant for beginners, when it's likely that they aren't able to properly decide who to protect, and might require some easy reference? And he HAS played before, even well according to himself. So he isn't stupid. His sentence about trusting the medics makes sense, though. If by "we" he means Mafia, that is. Next, I present my medic list, on page 12. It includes Jimtudor and doesn't have iLoveKTF in it. What does iLoveKTF first say about it? First of all, he doesn't mention at all that 5 pages ago he thought that we don't need a medic list. Then, he thinks that Jimtudor shouldn't be on it because he's under suspicion. Under suspicion? Well, people had been discussing if they should rolecheck the people who lose the run for office and Jimtudor was brought up. Note again how iLoveKTF isn't explaining the suspicion at all, just tells him to read the last few pages. He himself has STILL added ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the game. Repeating others at best. On May 20 2009 12:59 iLoveKTF wrote: Things to do right now:
1. Finalize the medic list. 2. Medics do your jobs. (I hope those 2 inactives who havent voted arent medics) 3. Wait for day and see who dies and let the finger pointing begin. Now, he's just giving orders (that are common sense), not adding anything. Once again. Ah, now Koopie tells me how iLoveKTF is going to be useful for the town, on page 16. Well that's nice, since until now, he has done absolutely nothing. But that's all been relatively minor. Now, let's examine this post: On May 21 2009 12:42 iLoveKTF wrote: Oh man. I was expecting jimtudor to be red. He really seemed suspicious because he voted for Shikyo, though it didnt matter cause jeejee wouldve won either way, because Jeejee was suspecting him too. Yeah I, along with those who suspected jimtudor, look like mafia right now. But I think the mafia's plan was to kill jimtudor so that the attention will be pointed towards us and not them. I just hope jimtudor didnt role claim to the elected officials cause if he did, we are semi-fucked. And if he did roleclaim, I hope the other BG didnt. Also, If jimtudor roleclaimed then we would know 1 of Jeejee and Shikyo is red.
Right now, I am very suspicious of Shikyo. My theory is that he would put jimtudor in his medic list so that he wont look suspicious if jimtudor died. And if at any case a medic protected jimtudor, the mafia decided to stack 2 hits on him. Ofcourse this wouldnt be true if a medic had a hit blocked last night.
Damn I really thought Jimtudor was red. Sorry man, RIP. :p Okay, does this make sense to anyone? Why was he really suspicious because he voted for me? Especially since, as he said, it didn't matter. And iLoveKTF really NEVER, EVER said what he exactly thought was suspicious, even before. He just said that he's under suspicion. And then a gigantic apology post, although he did nothing? Who would feel that they need to write a huge post like this in that kind of a situation, where some others had started suspecting him as well(for no reason, may I add)? Oh, but the fun in this post doesn't end there! The mafia's plan was to kill Jimtudor so that the attention would be pointed towards "us" and not "them"? What the hell? Who would come to that conclusion? That would be such a stupid plan. It's a stupid thing to even lynch a suspected person, as I think I've stated before. Why would the town suddenly think that if someone who people thought was mafia was killed... the people who thought he was mafia would be mafia themselves? It makes no sense. They wouldn't kill him off. They would keep casting suspicion and try to get him lynched. His train of thought makes NO sense. It's sad I already established that he's not stupid, since I'm starting to believe that he actually is pretty damn stupid. Unless, of course, he's a mafia trying to think of something that might fool someone. Hey, but we're not done with this post yet! At the end, he suspects that I would put Jimtudor on my medic list so that I wouldn't look suspicious if he died. Ummm what? Hey, iLoveKTF, maybe you didn't know, but medics are actually supposed to protect people on that list. But you seem to have a foolproof plan ready! Let's stack 2 hits on Jimtudor! First of all, those hits are valuable for Mafia. if I was planning on getting him killed that night, I could have easily went with the suspicion and took him off the list. Second, very suspicious of me? It's not like other lists didn't have his name there. And then a ridiculous plan that someone needs to explain to me for it to make any sense. Wow. -_- He's for lynching Jayme, too. I might have to think about this again in the case Jayme is red. But I'm almost sure he'll be green, or even blue(unlikely because of how inactive he is). He's acting like he's adding something to the discussion by bringing up double lynch. Again, this was inevitable and was probably mentioned before. Posts that appear to have content but in fact do not. Let's examine these 2 posts, now. On May 21 2009 14:21 iLoveKTF wrote: Yeah Im voting to lynch Jayme unless something better comes up. Also, we need to discuss if we are gonna use double lynch for day 3 or not. Imo, yes. Using it after Day3 is wasting too much time. We need as much kills as possible (of course through thorough clue analysis). On May 21 2009 14:23 iLoveKTF wrote: edit: by "We need as much kills as possible" I mean "We need as many dead mafia as possible". Everyone, think to yourself. Would a townie feel the need to correct something like that? Wasn't it obvious what he meant? To me, the correction looked really unnecessary. But maybe he thought he'd come out wrong. Although, why would a townie need to worry about that? On May 22 2009 12:29 iLoveKTF wrote: Voted in favor of Double lynch coz fingers have been pointed to alot of people. We'd have many suspects next day.
Abstained from lynching coz I know Jayme is surely gonna get lynched. Currently analyzing some posts/accusations while waiting for Night post. Or so that you wouldn't be connected to voting for him if he turns green? If Jayme's red, it'd be amazing. I just doubt it. Oh, before that post iLoveKTF was talking about his profile thread. Basically another set of empty posts with no content.
Based on that, I strongly believe that iLoveKTF is mafia. Clues aren't my speciality, but I think some possible ones have already been suggested
I'm still wondering where Koopie is.
|
I'd take iLoveKTF off the list. Just woke up, reading.
|
Why is SugiuraMidori on the list?
"I think today is a lost cause, assuming Jayme turns green. If he turns red, I'd be extremely surprised." Was it the second time I was right? I told people to hold off from voting while I analyzed. I don't think it was possible to save the day, because everyone just bandwagoned. Something I think I adviced against. Now, let us look at the people on the list of suspects, who were actively proposing the lynching of Jayme. I wonder if they'll match(I'm confident they do).
On May 23 2009 14:38 chaoser wrote: guys, come on...really? I really have two problems with this town. 1)Elected Officials, DO SOMETHING. YOU ARE PROTECTED UNLESS BODYGUARDS DIE. That means you have way more freedom than anyone else. mafia can't target you so take more risks. really? clue analysis? we need a town web set up asap!
2) DTs, medics, mouths, get in touch with THE ELECTED, i'm not saying role claim, i mean say you're the mouth or that you have info or something. It's better than us sitting around not doing anything!
Something more than having pointed out about 5 mafia suspects and the reasoning behind everything? What have you done?
On May 23 2009 13:33 iLoveKTF wrote: @ Shikyo's accusations: I'll address it later. Im watch SKT vs KTF atm.
@ Jayme's death. Why are you guys so mad/upset about him flipping green. Its not like you suggested anyone else.
Hey, guess what. That ended already. Maybe we've upset because he's green? And it's not like YOU suggested anyone else. WTF.
Voting for you unless something comes up.
|
Right, so read recent posts before hitting post. Oh well, another post after reading what iLoveKTF said:
I'm suspecting you're Mafia for playing stupidly and not contrubuting anything. The reasoning behind you being suspicious of Jimtudor was stupid. You never really explained anything, etc. Yes, I'm suspecting you're Mafia because of clarifying yourself. There was absolutely no need for any clarification, just might seem so if you're mafia.
As you might have noticed, you still haven't contributed anything? Me talking about those random clues was just an example of you contributing nothing.
And you didn't address the terrible argument about Jimtudor being on the list making me suspicious, and why you thought that the mafia could possibly have some plan like that. So you basically evaded anything important.
I think I will consider voting for iLoveKTF. That's what you wanted to hear, isn't it?
|
On May 23 2009 16:58 crate wrote: shikyo hi5 that's enough "stupid" in one post to make me proud
My pleasure =)
iLoveKTF, you know even better than me that it wouldn't make me red.
I propose that in this game, you can only be modkilled by being inactive.
Also, your rephrase was unnecessary assuming you've been reading the other thread.
So, assuming you're innocent, why have you played as if you didn't know how to, even though you have so much experience? -.-;; You know that after being modkilled, you're banned from the next game?
|
On May 23 2009 17:30 Qatol wrote: Getting modkilled in this game has far worse consequences than in my game. Please consider that. Pyrrhuloxia and I and probably a few others will discuss exactly what they are the next time I see him, but they will involve at LEAST a 2 game ban.
EDIT: Ok after a quick discussion, modkill requests that are only due to game-related reasons will not be honored (though obviously we cannot force you to vote). If you have a legitimate out of game reason to get yourself modkilled, take it up with the host privately. If you try and troll the thread to force a modkill, we will let the TL staff deal with you as they see fit. Thanks, Qatol. It's ridiculous how people can say that they'll modkill themselves, then don't have to do it. And then the other people don't dare to do anything because of the threat of losing an innocent for no reason.
|
On May 23 2009 19:57 iLoveKTF wrote: What? Ok so I might be a little misunderstood. First thing I said was thinking of getting modkilled because I cant be around for the next 2 days, but I changed my mind. And when I said "mafia kill me now or lynch me tomorrow", i didnt mean i am requesting them to do so. I was challenging them to do so. Sorry for all the confusion.
Anyway this will be my last post for the next 2 days. Cya by then. Just so you know, you have like 64 more hours until you have to vote for the first time. You have to miss voting twice to be modkilled. It's convenient, though. You don't have to defend yourself since you won't be around.
On May 23 2009 19:18 teks wrote:Ok, it's finger pointing time. I've been working on a case for a while now, I didn't want to say anything until I had gathered more information, so please bear with me as I bring up old quotes and old arguments to try to form a behavior pattern of the suspect. I accuse zeks of being the Godfather. I think that he is the person who is organizing the mafia kills, which would also make sense seeing how he is one of the most active persons in the thread. I'm going to divide this post into three parts, in order not to flood the entire page. I'm going to focus on behavior, because the voting patterns up till now are too weak to rely on, and there doesn't seem to be any blatantly obvious clues pointing to zeks (which would explain why he is taking risks). If needed be, I can bring these two points in to strengthen my case later on, as I do think there is SOME material to work with in those two departments as well. WARNING! This post is going to be lengthy, but know that I worked alot on this, so I ask that you atleast skim through it to see if I'm onto something here. It COULD be vital for the town's gameplan. + Show Spoiler [Behavior] +The first piece of information I want to convey is two PM's I received from zeks before the night to day 2. These are unedited, except that I added a (nick) in front of each PM so it's easier to see who's saying what. This should, like any PM history, be read from the bottom to the top. + Show Spoiler [PM conversation] + (teks) I don't TRUST anyone to be honest. Not even you But I'm pretty positive that Shikyo isn't mafia. And JeeJee has had me convinced. Jury is still out on Jimtudor I guess - I don't trust him yet.
----------------------------------------- (zeks) Original Message: do you trust all 3 of - Shikyo, JimTudor and JeeJee?
----------------------------------------- (teks) Original Message: atm I'm suspecting Foolishness, Phelix and softer. Mostly based on laying low and votes though, it's hard to judge them with the low activity level we are having at the moment.. I really hope we manage to draw people out.
----------------------------------------- (zeks) Original Message: who are you suspecting behaviour wise?
At first, I was kind of wondering why he was asking me this all of a sudden, we hadn't talked any at all in PM's prior to this. But I had nothing to hide, I layed out who I suspected, he got the information, and I never heard from him again. What do I make of this? zeks thinks I'm a possible medic. He was asking around (it would be entirely possible that more of you received the same kind of PM's) to find out who the medics were least likely to be protecting. So in my case, I was suspicious of Foolishness, Phelix, softer and Jimtudor. Then what happens? Oh yeah, softer and Jimtudor dies. Yes, my suspicions were WAY off, but that's not the case here. If I was going to go on a stretch and assume that I was the only one he talked to, I would think that either Foolishness or Phelix got hit too that night, but it was either blocked by one of them being a veteran, or a medic. I'm thinking the first. Or maybe they just chose someone else randomly in order to not bring up too much suspicion, or they stacked hit's on one of the targets (Jimtudor?). Either way, two of my suspects died that night. I'm going to go over his posts now to point out any inconsistencies, irregularities or possible mafia behavior. + Show Spoiler [Quotes Part 1] +zeks' first post was made on page 8. On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote: I don't agree with lynching an inactive the first day. Since this is a newbie friendly game, those with blue roles might be more inclined to stay lurking since they know they have an important role and don't want to die so early. Oh what do you know, he's against lynching an inactive. What a surprise. What I have been seeing with new players is that his scenario doesn't fit at all. The inactive ones are, as I see it, usually townies who are disappointed in not getting a role, and feeling that they don't have anything to do, so they get bored with it. The new players who end up with a blue role tend to be more eager and active because they feel that they mean something. On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote: I remember when I was a medic (many times) all I thought about was staying alive so I can at least be able to contribute with protections each night - thus I stayed quiet and only communicated through PMs. I probably should have gone over his behavior in previous games before making this post, but I haven't. I'm sorry. If anyone wants to do that go right ahead. Either way, that sure isn't how he's playing now. I'm assuming this means that he has changed attitude, and no longer feels that this is the best way to play a blue role, if that is the case I would think that he, as a useful town aligned person, would encourage the new blue players to stand up for themselves, not just explaining why they would be inactive. The other possibility is of course, that he isn't a blue. Then, in his first post, he also made his statement that he would be running for mayor. His plans are not anything spectacular, but there are tidbits that can be discussed here, for instance the fact that he is opposing the vigi plan to get a confirmed townie: On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote: I think Crate brought up a great point about the trouble of getting a confirmed towny. The vigi plan has some flaws though. The vigi can't roleclaim and announce his hit to the whole town because a mafia could just do the same. I noticed in the day post that the mafia don't have names. So we wouldn't really know if a new vigi has come out and performed his announced hit. So he is basically disregarding the whole idea because the mafia doesn't have names (why would they have names? Have they ever had names in any previous games?). He is completely disregarding the fact that if a red player was hit, only a vigi could be behind it, and that vigi should have no problems with both pointing out the clues leading to himself, and get the support of the people he reached out to prior to his hit. What I make of this is that he is against getting a confirmed townie through this method, instead of pointing out the flaws and suggesting another way of doing it, he just denies the whole idea. Next, he is opposed to getting a confirmed townie through medic protection, too. He states the following: On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote: Nowhere does it say that the medic will know the role of the person he has saved. I agree that it is more likely for a medic to save a mafia hit than a vigi hit, but as a medic in previous games myself, it's pretty hard to judge who is going to get hit every night (that or I was a horrible medic lol). Also, in the less likely case of saving a mafia from a vigi - the medic may mistrust the saved mafia for a good guy. It's true that if a medic protected a mafia from a vigi hit, there would be no way to know if that target was mafia or not. But he is completely disregarding the fact that vigis can't hit on night 1. He, as an experienced player, should know this. He is also going on about how hard it is to block a hit, blabla, we all know that. Obviously this plan wasn't meant to be a "hey let's just block a mafia hit, then we have our confirmed townie!" but rather IF a medic blocked a mafia hit ON THE FIRST NIGHT, that medic would be safe to talk to the townie in question. So zeks goes on to form his confirmed townie plan based on the supposed flaws of the medic and vigi plans: On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote: In the case that we do not get a successful block, then we should move on to another plan that I am suggesting: plan C.
c) Detective role-check Depending on how far we get with the medic plan, we might have to consider the ultimatum which is to have a DT rolecheck someone - which would be the safest way, unless you manage to unluckily land on the godfather; then theres no way back. The chance of landing on the godfather is slim though, so I deem this the safest plan and most viable after using trying the medic plan. What a surprise! He wants a DT to rolecheck "someone" and then roleclaim "safely" to that person. Now, who could this trustable person be.. Hmm.. Maybe he should just nominate himself, since he was the one coming with the idea, that won't be suspicious at all, right? We'll get back to this later, since this is a story that continues later in the thread. What is interesting is that he mentions this in his very first post in the thread. Clearly focusing on what he thinks is the best idea, since the chance of landing on the godfather is slim. That makes the end of his election speech. The rest of it was the same things the other candidates promised, let's kill all red and use double lynches blabla. So the thread goes on, and zeks encourages people to read his election speech. He also helps the town by making an inactive list, but this is something literally anyone can do, so I'm getting the feeling that he did this to show the town that he can contribute, and to warrant voting on him. If he was the mafia candidate, why did he not get elected, or why did he not get close? I think that the mafia either waited to see if he could draw any votes (which he tried desperately by several times asking people to read his platform), or they threw him a few votes to try to start a bandwagon. Neither of the cases worked out for them, so they basically abandoned ship when it failed, that's why you didn't see him getting 6 mafia votes. I still believe that one of the election candidates were mafia, and since Jimtudor turned blue, and I so far have no reason to suspect Shikyo or JeeJee, this all adds up. + Show Spoiler [Quotes Part 2] +On May 20 2009 02:49 zeks wrote: To be safe I suggest we try to find clues that may point to the inactives so we can have a better shot at hitting a red. I am also supportive if we were to lynch Jayme based on clues. Captain Obvious to the rescue! Again he is "contributing" to the town by stating something we all know already. Of course we should go on clues in addition to lynching an inactive. The fact that he wanted to lynch Jayme also corresponds with the Godfather view, since he turned out to be a townie. After that, he makes his first (in my opinion) real contribution to the town, by cooking up some clues pointing to therapy. My theory is that he saw the Jayme case as sure-fire enough that he would be lynched on day 2, because he already had so many clues attached to him, that he decided to bring in someone new. This is not any evidence by itself, but therapy being a townie also adds up to the equation. Then, the medic list are being formed. zeks is placed on all of them, despite not really contributing to the town apart from running for mayor and forming a clue pattern to therapy. Good job! You had me fooled as well. I guess if there is anyone who should be accused of posting loads of fluff it should be you, not Shikyo. On May 21 2009 03:14 zeks wrote: I just hope that the medics are listening right now and hopefully they won't deviate from the plan. Of course you would hope that, you wouldn't want the medics to protect your targets, after all. On May 21 2009 13:43 zeks wrote: We only had two deaths tonight, softer and Jimtudor. Obviously there are only two possible scenarios:
a) Stacked hits on either softer or Jim. b) Someone got saved. - I think this is more likely, and in this case, I believe someone on the medic list got saved tonight. No. Obviously, you are lying. As an experienced player, you knew about the possibility that a veteran got hit, and that it would be more likely than stacking hits on softer or Jim, who basically hadn't contributed at all. If anyone were to be stacked it would have been someone like softer or Judge, or even you. Luckily, crate calls him on it instantly, so no harm done. Dun dun dun! This brings us to my punchline. The continuation of his DT rolecheck plan. + Show Spoiler [DT Rolecheck Plan] +On May 21 2009 23:52 zeks wrote: I think the vigi plan has just too many flaws. The medic plan is viable and I really believe that someone got saved last night versus a vet taking a hit. Now, how far the town web has grown I don't know.
But if things get desperate and still nothing gets done, then we should go with the DT rolecheck. I think this is probably the safest plan but obviously has a great drawback of losing one rolecheck. I am willing to step up for examination, that is, you'd have to believe in me not being Godfather.
And so far there have been no clues against me afaik, but of course I'm not free from suspicion one bit. Should we try this? Up to you two DT's to decide. (Of course, if this does happen I hope only one of you rolechecks me) Basically this is a repeat of his plan in the election platform. He is probably correct that there are no clues pointing to him, but the mere idea of suggesting himself for this idea makes this that more suspicious. If he were to suggest the idea, then let's say, have the town vote on who they wanted to act as the mouthpiece, maybe it wouldn't be so blatantly obvious what is going on here. zeks has that much belief in the town not thinking he is the godfather that he is nice enough to step up! Aww, doesn't that get your eyes wet. So nice of him! Once again, he fooled me, but thankfully there were other more experienced players who quickly figured out the risks of his plan. chaoser, Judge, Shikyo, props to you! This is going to be the end of my behavior analysis. I could go on by talking about his consistent denial of the vigi plan, which at the moment is one of the best plans we got, but this post is lengthy enough as is. So that's it. By sharing my case with you, I ask that zeks is removed from the medic list while we decide whether or not my case is strong enough. Hopefully we can come to an agreement before the night is over, and if needed be, he can be placed back on the list. I am basically laying my spot in this game on the table here, if zeks turns out innocent I take full responsibility and will let you lynch me if you see it fit. But do know that I wouldn't accuse an active and experienced player without gathering what I see as plenty of proof. This is all up to you, town, what do you think of my case?
First of all, being wrong about someone doesn't instantly make you mafia. It's the reasoning behind the accusation that matters. If the reasoning makes sense and you're not behaving suspiciously otherwise, I don't think it'd mean that you're mafia. See L vs Ace and Ver in Mafia VIII. Although L was wrong, his reasoning made sense(even if he was maybe too aggressive), even if he came to the wrong conclusion.
I would like to note that zeks only did a tiny bit of clue analysis, for Therapy. In fact, he was the first person to suggest him being lynched. On the second day, zeks said that it'd also be a good thing to lynch Jayme because of the clues etc. I find it slightly suspicious that he never clue analysed thoroughly, only for those people, who in fact turned out to be innocent. And as already mentioned, he hasn't done anything useful, either. I'd also like to point out how late his first post was.
I had a fascinating PM conversation with zeks before. It's read from bottom to top. I edited the names in.
+ Show Spoiler + Shikyo: I see. ----------------------------------------- zeks: Do you really need to me to write it all out for you?
Any person to come out with that plan is bound to be aware of the GF scenario. How naive would it be for a GF to stick his head onto a guillotine with a brand new plan, deviating from everything else the town has agreed upon (vigi/medic plans).
And all for what? 1 DT? Look at the town: everyone is pointing fingers at each other and nothing is getting done. People aren't going to start roleclaiming to each other even if I manage to successfully initiate and actually hit a red, because all of you are so suspicious of EVERY LITTLE THING you'd probably think I sacrificed a red to get the trust of the whole town.
Names are flying everywhere. Someone is orchestrating this. I think you and I both have a general idea of who it probably is.
----------------------------------------- Shikyo: What? I said "and?"
----------------------------------------- zeks: If you think so then pitch your case to the town to take me off the medic list.
----------------------------------------- Shikyo: I know that. And?
----------------------------------------- zeks: Because I mentioned the possibility of myself being the GF before all of you did.
----------------------------------------- Shikyo: Why is that?
----------------------------------------- zeks: The dt-rolecheck plan? Maybe you should be reading my posts.
----------------------------------------- Shikyo: Read the thread.
----------------------------------------- zeks: Why is that?
----------------------------------------- Shikyo: I think you are the Godfather.
Maybe he thought that the dt-rolecheck plan was the only reason I thought that? It's weird how he addressed only that, and thinks that it removes my suspicions if he says that he might be the GF, but we just have to trust him that he isn't.
After a while I noticed something I didn't notice the first time. For only one DT? Hey, did you yourself forget that your plan was to make you the confirmed townie and get all the information about everything? Where did "only one DT" come from?
I also love how he's basically evading the accusations. Pretty sneaky!
"Everyone is pointing fingers at each other and nothing is getting done." Is that really so? Well, let's assume that's true.. So naturally you will try to help the town fix that, right? Let's take a look at the time I sent the last PM, "I see.".
zeks Re: Mafia 5/22 09:04
All right, now we have a time. I wonder what zeks has posted after that. He would obviously have tried to fix the fingerpointing, right?
Now a little bit of chit-chatting, contributing nothing, then he stops posting for a while.
Then, comes the only set of posts he has posted afterwards.
On May 22 2009 21:43 zeks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2009 21:36 teks wrote:Great post Judge. vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
One thing that's confusing me about the people who are accusing Shikyo because jimtudor was on the medic list is they are only accusing Shikyo. You do realize jimtudor was on other people's medic lists (including my own), right? Yet the only one they accuse of any suspicion based on that is Shikyo. Not only that, but putting Jimtudor on the medic list was a GOOD townie call, and mostly everyone agreed on it. How on earth is that suspicious? 1) Jimtudor was a bodyguard, so his spot on the list was correct 2) He was hit by the mafia How would it benefit the mafia to put their own target on the medic list? "But teks, don't you get it? If Jimtudor wasn't on the list, the medics would protect him because they think he's likely to get hit. He's high profiled, yet not on the list!" Even if the list isn't "a list on who the medics should or should not protect, only a list of the people deemed important to the town" - this is a game with a lot of new players, chances are that the medics are new players as well. The safest call for the new medic players would be to protect someone on that list because they'd know the town would support that. Mafia may want to have a mixed list maybe? Would mafia want to make the whole medic list full of mafia? Now, what exactly is this? I would put Jimtudor, my next target, on the list because "mafia might want to have a mixed list maybe"? This doesn't even make any sense! Someone, please explain this reasoning to me.
So is he saying that the other names on my list, that is almost identical to others', would be mafia? And I put Jimtudor(my next target) on the list, because I wanted a mixed list? And even if he says otherwise, this post indeed DOES implicate me being mafia, giving a reason(a horrible one at that) for me to put Jimtudor on the list even if I was mafia.
I assume this isn't "pointing fingers", right? Since he was so strongly against it.
Next we have a peaceful conversation, after which he goes somewhere, never to be seen. I'd like to comment on his posts again with a little bit of more detail.
On May 22 2009 23:06 zeks wrote: Because jim was a good enough contributer that he can't simply be ignored to be part of the medic list. Use crate as an example. He's pretty much unanimously agreed upon to be part of the medic list. Mafia have no choice but to put him on their lists. Is he exempt from being hit justbecause he's on a stupid list? Hell no because it'd be more suspicious not to put him on a list when he's done so much. Medic list isn't an immunity list (like JeeJee said). In fact it might be a warning from the mafiathat even the medic list may not be as safe as we think. So let's see. Jimtudor couldn't have been ignored and he needed to be a part of the mediclist? If you remember, people indeed were really suspicious about him and I could have EASILY just said that he was too suspicious. Man, didn't I say this somewhere before? What do you mean no choice?
So wait a second! You say that I had no choice but to put Jimtudor on my list. But just a second ago you were implying that it was suspicious for me to have put him on the list? That I might want to have a mixed list? Does this make any sense to anyone else?
On May 22 2009 23:55 zeks wrote: I never said Jim was a good hit enough to warrant 2 hits - you can try to quote me on it.
I never said it was suspicious for you to put him on the list - you can try to quote me on that too. All I am saying is that the option of a mafia putting Jim on his/her medic list is totally probable.
I never directed anything at you, so I don't know why you're getting so defensive. Read my posts as they are.
This is the last thing he has posted. You can try to quote... okay. So you say that it's a possible reason for me to put him on my list even if I was a mafia, although he was basically defending my decision the whole time. This means that you disagreed with him, doesn't it? Sigh.
So where was the lack of fingerpointing? ^_^ If you really are a townie, why haven't you been contributing anything at all, besides being suspicious about the 2 people we lynched... who were innocent?
I wonder when you start doing something useful for the town.
|
On May 23 2009 21:28 So no fek wrote:http://www.zeks.com/Compressed Air solutions. Show nested quote +Without warning, his windshield shattered and a wave of glass ripped through LTT's face. Passing out from blood loss, LTT's head slumped, sounding a horn that would not be heard in time. With no previous warning (meaning LTT likely didn't see anything), his windshield shattered in, with considerable force (to have ripped into his face like that). I'm honestly on the fence about this clue pointing towards Zeks. It's so very obvious that this could have been caused by a blast of compressed air, and that's why I'm on the fence. Day 1 clues are supposed to be hard, nearly impossible to solve, but this was so easy. The only reason I could see Pyrry using a clue this easy (if it does in fact point to Zeks), is that it's a noobie game, and not very much was expected of us. So take it as you will, with a grain of salt. I was merely linking a possible clue with someone suspected because their behavior is pretty far off.
Know what? This is actually the exact same clue I considered. It indeed does seem pretty easy, but you forgot to mention something about it.
"sounding a horn that would not be heard in time."
Now, I'm not an expert on the subject, so I google'd a little. I found, among others, this: http://www.wisegeek.com/why-does-sound-travel-better-with-the-wind.htm
You can google about it some more if you don't trust that source.
So, why would the sound not be heard in time? Well, assuming the air compressor, the wind it creates is really strong, since it could shatter the glass. Isn't it only reasonable to believe that it would be able to half the traveling of the sound almost completely?
I'm not a master of physics, so I still can't be sure about that. It seems to make sense, though, and it fits.
|
|
On May 23 2009 21:56 So no fek wrote:That's a good point, and one that I honestly hadn't even thought of. I doubt he would mention the "wouldn't be heard in time" or whatever if it didn't mean anything. It might just be a red herring, or whatever they say, but since it fits with the same clue...
|
|
|
|