EPTIf anyone posts anything fishy just assume I've called them out on it and go from there.
bbl.
Mafia VIII [GG] - Page 2
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
If anyone posts anything fishy just assume I've called them out on it and go from there. bbl. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 18 2009 02:58 L wrote: Excuse me? I've posted far more logical and detailed analysis than you have despite you tossing out 2 long posts full of emotionally laden 'whoa oh shit, lets lynch the douchebag' casual text. Your argument has been presented in its entirety before, but you spruced it up and added a bunch of flavor text, remember after all, when ace plays he believes that: So posting the same "it was a dumb move, ergo he is mafia + we need to kill him" content was pretty spot on, but you completely ignored the counter argument. There's probably an entire's page worth of writing on the topic which you ignored. Why would you want to knock Nemy out of office? Well, for one, you're number three. You're the one that directly loses out on an office position. Two: you ver and mynock have supported each other in a circular fashion, then all seemingly dissapeared from the thread. What's more, the vast majority of supporters on your nemy position were people who bandwagoned you/ver/mynock very early without much posting like dreamflower. SUSPICIOUS? Just about as suspicious as someone calling out Plexa, which I agree was a fucking retarded vote. What's more, your rebuttal of my 'nonsense claims' echoes EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING. Mafia will ONLY reveal pardoner once they can end the game or when the trade off is beyond worth it. 15 player games have far less sacrifice potential than we currently have, especially if the pardoner gets tied up in clue evidence and is going to be a target in a day or two. ONCE THEY DO, however, WE ARE DOWN AN ENTIRE DAY. Your rebuttal of trying to get blues into office is that you believe you're worth more to the town than a blue role, but the problem there, as I stated earlier, is that your personal capital makes you a prime target for a mafia candidacy. What's more; you keep promoting you, ver, and Mynock, which is interesting because you three started out circularly voting for each other. Its very possible, and in my mind probable that there's at least one mafia between the three of you. The most dangerous part to you, however, is that nemY isn't going to win by a landslide at current rates: he's going to take the mafia coveted pardoner spot. Unlike in previous games where the mayor had networking ability, the only thing he has here is a double vote and his target will likely be voted upon by the town anyways, so that's that. That said, you did end up reading 8 pages in an hour and a quarter minutes, seeing as you got up around 4:45 est, right? Maybe you ought to go back and actually read instead of scaremongering. You seem to have gone to sleep around 8pm last night too, which would be around 1.5 pages ahead of where you said you started off. Either you purposely ignored the thread (good mayor work there) or you've been lying. Feel free to provide me more information. Exact times, if you would. So let me interject: if one of you is mafia, which is likely, you'd act exactly how mafia acted in mafia 2, which is exactly how you're acting now. Its what we did before. Its what I'd do if I was mafia. Look at all the wrong shit in this post, oh gee I don't know where to start. 1.) You haven't been logical. Period. Your arguments about Pardoner are null and void because we can't determine anyone's roles yet. Duh. So your asking the town to vote in a way that is pretty much useless. All we can do is vote on ability which unfortunately leaves a lot of people out. 2.) nemy isn't in office. If I was worried about losing the election that bad of all people why would I go after nemy? Or you know, I could just take my vote off of mynock and abstain or vote for someone else. Duh? Your analysis is complete shit, try again. 3.) I'm supporting Mynock and Ver because I feel they are the other 2 best candidates. Every game we have people like you who question why I'm doing something, and you all come off looking like idiots. How many times do I have to tell you - you're wasting time. Maybe I just genuinely believe those 2 are good for the town and holy shit! They might be mafia but they haven't acted like you or nemy so I have no reason to fuck with them. 4.) That's nice that 1 of the 3 of us might be mafia. It's also nice that 6 out of the 30 people playing might be also. What's your point? 5.) There is no danger to me. Stop trying so hard. There is no mafia coveted Pardoner spot - any of the 2 will do. Stop making up these grand ideas in your head. 6.) Your "ifs" are wrong because none of us play this game like you. It shows. 7.) I don't know exactly what time I started reading the thread or exactly what time I went to bed. But if you want to dissect it till your blue in the face go ahead - I'm innocent and don't have to worry about anything. See unlike nemy, I haven't lied about anything. And unlike you I'm actually analyzing whats going on now and not some made up scenario that we have no control over. Got anything else you want to uselessly add to the thread? Any more lightweight accusations you want to make against The Three Musketeers? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 18 2009 03:17 MTF wrote: Circumstances changed, though this does not mean that Nemy needs to be the true town leader. While I do not like Nemy in a leadership role by default, I still don't feel as heavily suspicious about him as most everybody else seems to. Whether I'm wrong for not doing so or not will have to be revealed in time, because not a single one of us can say for certain where Nemy's intentions lie. I think we should get Nemy into the Mayoral position, but have him take a back seat to whoever (hopefully Mynock or Showtime; the more the former been posting the more I think he deserves a high spot and I'm still curious about Showtime) gets into the Pardoner position. Doing this means risking revealing our bodyguard list to Mafia, but nothing else beyond that as Nemy would defer all responsibilities over to the Pardoner. Not doing it means we risk losing one of two DT's early on if he's telling the truth, and, regardless of who we put in, we still don't know the role of the person we've voted into office. The risk of voting him in is worth it to me this time. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. As is, my viewpoint is obviously way off from most of the prominent people playing and I've stated that I'm terrible at behavioral analysis in the past, so feel completely free to ignore my input in this matter. :p tsk tsk tsk MTF I know you know better than this. Shame on you. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
[quote] 1- Brush it off Essentially if ace is mafia, his plan nullifies both DTs. Thanks for letting me point that out. Peace. [/QUOTE] And why would he brush it off? Explain. And if I were mafia and I suggested this plan then SURELY I wold have done it after I made it into office right? LOL you fail. If I were Mafia I'd rather have nemy in office regardless of if he's mafia or not, and have everyone else get checked that didn't make it assuming none of them were mafia. That way the town isn't checking any of the mafia out yet. I'd also run around making up crazy stuff about 1 out of 3 people being mafia because they keep supporting each other. It puts a smile on my face. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
1.) Obviously determining roles is the aim of the game - but we are still at Mayoral elections. None of us can determine anything right now. Oh shit how did you miss this? You even quoted it but read it wrong. 2.) Worried about the election != worried about nemy. I'd love to be in, but hey if Mynock and Ver made it can't say I'd be sad. I'm not that worried about the election. But yea your right - I am worried about nemy which is exactly why I've been making my case against him. 3.) circular collusion? lol ok Don King. Ver has been pretty much silent, and only myself and Mynock have really supported each other. Stop trying to take wild guesses. 4.) I am immune from scrutiny. Because I'm innocent so anything you try to come at me with just doesn't phase me. If you caught me lying or bullshitting I'd understand but I never have. You know, thats how most of the good players that play know when I'm innocent. 5.) It wasn't proven false. How would you know the Mafia covet the Pardoner spot unless they themselves stated it? Once again you're failing. 6.) It's an US statement because playing the game with Ver and Mynock so many times I KNOW none of us play the game like you. It's just that simple - nothing beyond that. 7.) What full disclosure is there to give? But since you want to - go ahead. Post this evidence. You'll see I went to sleep, woke up, and came on TL.net after playing DOTA. Clan chat, replays - post whatever you need to. I know I'm not mafia so I'm begging you to do what you have to in order to "prove" I'm lying. I wasn't dodging but since you said I was I'm here for the show. So go ahead champ, show us what you got. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 18 2009 03:55 Caller wrote: Guys guys guys GUYS calm the fuck down Don't you see that mafia is benefiting from all of this? With some of our biggest names fighting over an issue that we don't even know has any meaning, we're just wasting time and causing more chaos. Here's what I think could be a possibility: a) elect nemy to pardoner. b) lynch him immediately tomorrow. If he really is a DT, he would have given us a RC already and would be safe. If he isn't a DT, we kill him and get rid of the pardoner position, thus avoiding any "setbacks" that mafia would benefit from having a scummy pardoner. I think this would be the safest compromise-we need to agree on one soon, L/MTF vs. Ace/Mynock = not fun... How about: we just don't elect nemy period. Sounds like a smart plan to me. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Only reason I didn't mention you was because it didn't seem like you were getting votes x_x | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 18 2009 04:13 L wrote: You were talking about Pardoner intentions and usage, a topic which can be examined purely through the rules of the game. If you were referencing my suggestion that we need blues in office ver proved rather dramatically last game that you can sniff out blues very accurately on day 1. So you admit you are worried, which is a complete contradiction of your previous stance. I'm not contradicting myself. You are. Think about it. Uh, you yourself have called the group 'the three musketeers' and Ver actually was posting for a bit while you were sleeping. Moreover, the vote record DOES NOT LIE. each of you voted for one other. 1. No you aren't. 2. By your own admission we don't know that. Why do you assume people should assume you're innocent? If that's the case everyone should have just PMed you their roles at the start of the game and that would have been a good play. Frankly, for someone harping on nemy about poor play, you're doing a lot of it yourself. Okay, lets assume pardoner instantly wins the game. I think mafia would go for it. See what I did there? The rules of the game describe the advantages and pitfalls of certain actions. Do you think mafia would NOT want the pardoner spot? Do you think they'd want mayor more? Yet by your own admission you've stated that good players will not have a style. Ver's 'afk townie' method this game, for instance, is something he said he wouldn't be doing, and has only performed while previously mafia, yet you believe that you can call their style even if they're not the same allegiance as you? Bad choice of words, and a telling one. Read my fucking posts. Do you refuse to give the information? Y/N. As you put it. Go ahead champ. I wouldn't fucking TELL YOU what information I have if i'm trying to cross reference the information I've got with your statements to check for inconsistencies. I mean, you should know that, you aren't an idiot. no | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 18 2009 04:16 Caller wrote: Seriously you guys, we have like Ace/Mynock/Tricode vs. L/nemy Malongo vs. LucasWoJ what the hell is going on people, stop arguing and let's figure out what the hell we're going to do voting wise and after the election. Ad hominem can wait until later! I already outlined the plan yo! Don't vote for nemy. See what I did there? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
I'm so lost :/ | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
v_v | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 18 2009 04:13 L wrote: You were talking about Pardoner intentions and usage, a topic which can be examined purely through the rules of the game. If you were referencing my suggestion that we need blues in office ver proved rather dramatically last game that you can sniff out blues very accurately on day 1. Unfortunately that criteria isn't going to be useful in a game with this many qualified candidates. Like I stated before there are people playing that with or without a blue role they are going to be good in office. Even discussing blue roles right now is a sure fire way to have a problem, just look at nemy. So you admit you are worried, which is a complete contradiction of your previous stance. I'm not contradicting myself. You are. Think about it. I'm worried about one thing, not the other. They aren't equal. Sure they are closely tied together in this case but I'm not worried about me losing the election. Uh, you yourself have called the group 'the three musketeers' and Ver actually was posting for a bit while you were sleeping. Moreover, the vote record DOES NOT LIE. each of you voted for one other. I'm telling you just because each of us voted for each other doesn't mean anything. Ok it may look suspicious, but personally speaking if I were Mafia I wouldn't take the chance of one of us getting into office. 1. No you aren't. 2. By your own admission we don't know that. Why do you assume people should assume you're innocent? If that's the case everyone should have just PMed you their roles at the start of the game and that would have been a good play. Frankly, for someone harping on nemy about poor play, you're doing a lot of it yourself. How so? I've broken down numerous times why we don't need nemy in office, and I've run on an honest platform. I'm not doing anything disruptive unlike some people. Okay, lets assume pardoner instantly wins the game. I think mafia would go for it. See what I did there? The rules of the game describe the advantages and pitfalls of certain actions. Do you think mafia would NOT want the pardoner spot? Do you think they'd want mayor more? Mafia Pardoner is not that strong until the end of the game in one specific scenario. A Mafia Mayor is stronger because of the extra votes. Sure, I'm pretty confident that anyone that can think notices how BRUTAL a Pardoner can be at the right time but like I said we aren't even close to those waters. We can't even verify anyone so even trying it is just not going to work. Behavior analysis isn't always 100% correct and it's a gamble I'm not willing to take for Pardoner or Mayor. It's an US statement because playing the game with Ver and Mynock so many times I KNOW none of us play the game like you. It's just that simple - nothing beyond that. Yet by your own admission you've stated that good players will not have a style. Ver's 'afk townie' method this game, for instance, is something he said he wouldn't be doing, and has only performed while previously mafia, yet you believe that you can call their style even if they're not the same allegiance as you? Bad choice of words, and a telling one. [/quote] Yea in a way. Of course Ver has been "afk" several times in other games (he takes forever to post seriously). Mynock, while he doesn't know my exact style (I don't have one I'm fluid) has a good idea of when I'm being honest about something. Many people have tried to analyze what I do and most have failed. It's different knowing someone's integrity and knowing their style. How is that a bad choice of words? ^_^ Read my fucking posts. Do you refuse to give the information? Y/N. As you put it. Go ahead champ. I wouldn't fucking TELL YOU what information I have if i'm trying to cross reference the information I've got with your statements to check for inconsistencies. I mean, you should know that, you aren't an idiot. What information do you need? Cross reference away because there's nothing fishy about me. (^_^) | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 18 2009 05:45 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Yeah i think I may do this. If my current vote count is correct it's Nemy 6 ::Ver 6 :: Mynock 4 :: Ace 4, for the leading candidates. Ver is probably in, but i can help keep him in the mayor spot. Convenient way to dodge the burden of choosing pardoner  I'm telling you guys don't let nemy get in. We'll all regret it. He claims DT, doesn't provide the information he said he had and yet we would STILL let him in? Come on guys don't be like the town last game. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
And what does my post in Pyyr's thread have to do with this game? It's not even in the right context ^_^ | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
You got caught lying. And now you're trying to avoid the situation. All my lynching efforts are pointing squarely at you from now on. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
In fact you should stop trying to derail the thread about me and focus on how far your body will dangle. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
If I don't do it, I'm sure anyone else who gets Mayor would too. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
I'll also only address the part of your post directly with my name in it, since if a post doesn't include my name I skip it. Ace is taking this too far. He had his rope. He had his opportunity to go appear innocent. And he hung himself on it. It is not in the town's interests to lynch Nemy. Because here's the thing, we don't want to lynch the traitor. The traitor has no ACTUAL power. The traitor's only power is influence and words. He can cause mass chaos. But if we know who the traitor is, he is POWERLESS. Nemy is not mafia unless he is a sacrifice. That means we have no reason to lynch him! Yet Ace is going all out trying to get this. Look at this from a behavior standpoint: Mafia are the ones who are this aggressive. See RoL and Attackzerg trying to get Ace lyched/discredited in BC's first game. Now for a direct comparison: remember when Ace defended mikeymoo in Caller's game (Ace was innocent so was Mikeymoo)? He was voracious in defending mikeymoo, but he was not voracious in lynching BC even though BC was full of BS. Yes he wanted BC lynched but he didn't go crazy like he is now. Because that's a sure sign of mafia behavior: being overaggressive to get a lynch. In case anyone wants to relate to the Folca/Ace scenario, that is a completely different thing. Because then Folca roleclaimed with a specific intent to prove something, i,e that Ace was mafia. Thus in that circumstance Ace's logic train is true and the correct choice of action (and he would've done it if he was townie I'm sure). Because if you lynch the accuser you know everything about the accused role. However, now here Nemy just plain roleclaimed. WHY ON EARTH WOULD WE LYNCH HIM? WE GET NO BENEFIT. NOTHING. Under the present circumstances there is NO reason to lynch Nemy. Ace you screwed up. This is not Savior sense. This is not to the benefit of the town. And you people who agree with his logic (mikeymoo, bockit), you guys better think through exactly what he's recommending. Game 3 and now are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Furthermore, the Ace voting train, you guys are all suspect. You people are clearly trying to push him into mayor over me. Not gonna happen. I'll dissect through suspects in a bit. Sorry - but this is where you fucked up. I've said it plenty of times, I'm aggressive because it's how I feel like being. Whether I'm townie or Mafia I play with a free conscience because I honestly don't think anybody can read anything I do and you've just proven my point. You can also ask Mr.BabyHands - I've played an aggressive townie style before. It's not a Mafia trait at all. Now onto your analysis of nemy. You've failed to point out something significant: The difference between this game and the game with BC was that I pointed out that BC might be the Village Idiot hence we don't even care what happens to him. The real danger is lynching mikeymoo because we have no information about him based on what BC did. This scenario is different as there is no one being accused - this is just a role claim at a bad time. What also makes this different is that unlike when Empyrean claimed DT on Day 1, nemy lied. In Mafia 2 I had no reason to lynch Empyrean as soon as I got Mayor because empyrean only claimed to be a DT and didn't say anything about having a way to prove it. So we just let him be. nemy got caught in a lie. Badly. See the difference? If nemy was a DT that just played his hand wrong we could surely just say ok buddy, no office for you and keep things hush after that. He lied on got caught and that changes everything as an innocent doesn't have to lie to the town on information that would help us greatly. Hell, he STILL hasn't even given it to us and when asked he tried to be cool like me - but failed. Also if nemy is a traitor - of course we lynch him. Do we have a better suspect? I don't think so. If he's a traitor that means he isn't working for the town which means he should die. Simple, really. See how all these scenarios are different? Nothing anyone says can explain why nemy lied. Nothing. So he gets the lynch. As for my vote train - meh. Whats so suspect about it? People know a good candidate when they see one. As for me being buddy/buddy with Mynock - what's the problem? I've supported him in every game I've played and there's no secret about it. I don't even have any clue what his role could possibly be but I've said this so many times - there isn't any reliable way to find out anybody's role right now so I base my votes off of ABILITY. Since I believe Mynock is one of the best candidates I voted for him. go ahead and try to analyze that, you'll end up like Versatile and we see how her logic worked out. So once again I'll state your analysis has FAILED. Based on pure playing ability myself and Mynock should be in office over anyone else, with the exception of maybe BC. Showtime! and Caller do better outside of leadership roles. I'm interested in hearing your retort to this post. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 18 2009 08:42 Ver wrote: I will update this regularly so the town can have a guide as to who I think is innocent and guilty. Mafia list: Ace 95% mrbabyhands 92% Mynock 90% MTF 80% L 78% Infinity21 70% Traitor: Nemy 90% Innocents list: Caller 97% BC 93% Malongo 85% Tricode 84% Lucaswoj 83% Incognito 80% Fusionsdf 77% quoting this for the epic fail pic I will post later | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Holy shit doesn't this look familiar (^_^) Funny thing about that guy - he was wrong on every single person in his list. Oh my Ver, you should drop this act now. It's not a good trend to follow. (v_v) | ||
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