TL Mafia 5 [Game Over]
|Forum Index > TL Mafia|
On March 18 2009 11:58 Ace wrote:
@Inf: You know if I'm against some plan in a Mafia game and if you assume I'm innocent - there has to be a really good reason right?
That's the thing, I would imagine. It's getting harder not to entertain an inkling of suspicion that you might be Mafia. After all, there's no reason to assume that the experienced players will all be good guys. Not that some of your objections haven't been entirely reasonable (I say "some" because the others are going to take some rereading on my part before I understand them), and I'm not casting aspersions and don't want anyone to start pulling out pitchforks and nooses. But there's something to be said about not being a seething morass of negativity right away.
On March 18 2009 11:58 Ace wrote:It's like no one realizes this game is designed so that there is no way to have early central organization as easy as before, but you guys are going to kill yourselves and all the rest of us in trying. right now it's better to see how the this election and the first day plays out while letting the DTs do whatever it is they want to do.
This, I agree with. I know this game was purposely designed so that it'd be hard to set up any organization around confirmed innocents on Day One. The old idea of setting up a master plan for the town, like in the old games, won't work the same. So, I hope to see more ideas from people so that we can work out the logic, but not to have any of them implemented quite yet.
I have the feeling someone's going to post something saying the exact same thing I did while I'm writing this. Erk.
I vote for semioldguy, by the way. Bloodycobbler seems assured of an elected position, so I'd like to have another official with that kind of articulacy, intelligence and common sense.
Edit: Fixed tag.
On March 19 2009 23:06 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
This is the list of people that have voted for semioldguy. Of the 2 suspicious lists I'm more interested in the latter. The first list could be inactives and mafia, but the second list are all active posters. That means they have to have thought about their votes. However, with testimony from several players and semioldguy never even playing a game on the site before he somehow manages enough votes to snag a position. It's hard to tell if this is a bandwagon voting thing or mafia ploy. Regardless the only vet player sticking out on this list is Mr.BabyHands who voted for him probably because it didn't matter, or he'd rather have him in office than Pyrr. If we assume that veteran mafia would want mafia in office, we could also assume they'd have voted for Semi and we'd see more names from the 12 here. Good thing we won't use this assumption. Detectives this is probably the list you want to start role checking.
Just wanted to mention my reasoning for my place on the list of voters for semioldguy, which for me wasn't based on either bandwagon voting or Mafia ploy. When I voted (and I guess perhaps I should have waited, as I didn't realize how many candidates would come up), there were only two candidates who had done significant campaigning or had others campaign on their behalf: BloodyCobbler, semioldguy and Pyrrhuloxia. I didn't know about MrBabyHands' work in other Mafia games before, so all I had to go on with him was the MS Paint picture he posted. Memorable, but not terribly persuasive.
Of the aforementioned three candidates, I decided to vote for semioldguy because, as I saw it, he wasn't placing as much importance on trying to make a foolproof town plan based on roles, as BC was, and I thought Pyrrh's clue-analysis was stretching it for Day One clues. For the town planning, I thought semioldguy's inexperience with previous games might not have been such a disadvantage, as he wouldn't be as attached to trying to make town circles based on medics/vigilante hits/all those plans that everyone poked holes at. I also liked that he resolved not to try to lead the town, but to let the town's decisions lead his. I know what they say about politicians and campaign promises, but it didn't seem like something a Mafioso would say. If elected into office, you'd think the Mafia would be doing everything they could to run the show and misdirect the town, pointing the town's attention as far from them as possible.
So, there you have it. I understand you would be suspicious and it gives the DTs a list to work with, if nothing else. Feel free to mock my reasoning, but I did have one, and it didn't consist of someone else voting for him or my being anything but townie.
Bah. Sorry for the long post, everyone. Considering it's already practically a speech, I'll also mention that I'm working on compiling a MS Word list of everyone's profiles, quotes, etc. It's not going to be easily searchable, I know, given there's 60 (well, 59) players in this game, but if nothing else, it forces me to look more closely at the sources from which Chuiu will be drawing his clues in the future. Just wanted to mention that to show I am trying to help the town in my own way, even though I probably won't post much, being far too awed by the august company of so many revered Mafia veteran players.
On March 11 2009 23:03 Chuiu wrote:
A special note on roles: All roles must be used at night and only the Detective clue check ability and Medic ability may be used on Day 1. Roles may be declared before night but they will not happen until night. Sheriff and Mayor will hide the roles of the elected players so that a Detective role check will show them as Sheriff/Mayor and nothing else.
I'm pretty sure all the medics know that they should be using their abilities tonight to protect valuable players. However, I'd like to remind detectives that they should use their clue-check ability. Specifically, they should be asking if specific sentences in the Day One posts are clues. At least this should help us figure out how clues are described in this game and give us a start for clue analysis.
Possible clues from the Day One post. I'm looking for things that seem out of the ordinary in the post that normally wouldn't seem intuitive or natural given the (admittedly non-intuitive, unnatural) course of events. For instance, I'm not sure the shockwave was a clue, because when bombs powerful enough to destroy a building go off, shockwaves are supposed to happen next.
On March 17 2009 12:21 Chuiu wrote:
Except for the explosion in City Hall. The sheriff, Chuiu, ran out of his office across the street to see the building crumbling in on itself.
Possibly a clue? I know quite a few people's profiles contain mentions of bombs and explosions, if nothing else. In addition, I remember Caller made special note of the building collapsing in on itself, like an implosion.
He finally caught up with them a few moments later as they were getting in a car. He noticed they weren't leaving right away, what could they be waiting for?
As Chuiu himself asks, what could they be waiting for? Is there a fourth man? Something else they're waiting to see? This is unusual, so it may have some hidden meaning. Or maybe not.
But while he did so the mafia lowering himself sprinted toward Chuiu and with his hands still behind his head grabbed the gun and threw it to the side.
Definitely unusual. Both hands still behind his head, yet the Mafioso is able to get control of the gun? I agree this might point to something non-human or superhuman.
He reached out his hand as if to help Chuiu up, Chuiu grabbed his hand with a puzzled look on his face and began to get up. But then the mafia pulled him close and stabbed him in the chest.
Especially considering Chuiu could simply have said, "He stabbed him in the chest," I think the beginning of this must be significant. The fact that he reaches out as if to pull Chuiu up, but then uses the gesture to make it easier to kill him, suggests a theme of betrayal or deceit. "Stab in the chest" isn't too far from "stab in the back." Perhaps if we see others die because their trust was betrayed, this might become an important link.
Over at City Hall Incognito just realized something the mafia might have missed. He began sifting through the rubble thinking he could score something to help catch the mafia. What he didn't know was one stayed back to make sure he was dead.
First of all, much applause and props to Incognito for sifting through rubble after being caught in a bomb blast. What fortitude! Now, the guy who stays back. Does this indicate caution on his part? Is his job to clean up any mess left behind? Is this the guy the three were waiting for before? Again, this is unusual, so who knows what meanings could be hidden?
Of course, having seen the Day One clues and reasoning from Chuiu's aborted game, I'm sure the fact that the sky is blue is probably a clue to someone. But I hope this helps.
More rational reaction: Throwing my own two cents into the clue analysis, even though I still wouldn't say the clues so far have been conclusive or adequate justification on their own for lynching someone. They're still vague enough that they can point to several different people at the same time. I've isolated the sentences that seem like clues from each paragraph, because I don't want this post to get longer than it already will be.
On March 21 2009 13:33 Chuiu wrote:
It seemed like it was one of the theater attendants he saw on the way in but why would they hit him?
Some articles fell from his pocket, torn ticket stubs, old popcorn, a dried up white flower; just trash he had picked up from the ground.
These are the two clues I see from Camlito's kill and incidentally the two clues that I think actually argue against his killer being bumatlarge, though I noticed the possible connection there too. Though I admit my acquaintance with bums and homeless people has been extremely limited, I haven't met any who could pass, even under careless scrutiny, as theater attendants. I see this more as the killer being in disguise, possibly having dressed himself as a theater attendant or usher to avoid suspicion and take Camlito by surprise. Perhaps he favors using the element of surprise, rather than overtly threatening his victims.
In addition, the stuff that falls from his pocket is summarized as "trash." While homeless people do pick up trash, I imagine they pick up trash they can use, such as old blankets, uneaten food or things they could use to build a shelter, not such useless articles as torn ticket stubs, old popcorn or dried-up flowers. This guy seems more like he's collecting stuff, possibly either from places he's been or as memorabilia from the kill (like those serial killers who like to have reminders of their victims). I have two total reaches in mind for this, but I'll have to think more about how plausible they really are.
I should thank you guys for not pointing to me with the dried-flower clue, by the way. After all, the flower in my profile is blue and not dried, and I can assure you I don't pick up trash on the ground.
During the fight three more had broken out. Scaramanga was down towards the bottom of the theater not really fighting but avoiding a man who was taunting him with a knife.
He successfully pushed his way through and ran towards the door, though once he opened it a small explosion triggered at several places and the walls came caving down on Scaramanga.
The taunting seems possibly like a clue, though many people have trash talk in their profiles, so it's not much to go on. The second statement could possibly link up with the explosion that hit City Hall the first day, causing the building to collapse in on itself as well. I agree that it points to someone who likes explosives and bombs, as well as destroying buildings to trap people and kill them.
He heard a clicking sound from the mans coat and was sure he was armed to the teeth, ready to shoot him any second.
He was halfway and didn't hear any gunshots so he looked up and saw the man jumping from seat to seat barely keeping his balance before he moved to the next one and slowly closing in.
As they struggled Qatol saw a glint of metal and thinking it was a gun tried to push it away, but his hand wasn't pushing away something it was pushing in. The knife penetrated Qatols right hand and his killer was rocking it back and forth making the wound hurt more. Screaming in pain and losing his strength quickly Qatol had no chance of defending himself as the knife continued forth and penetrated his chest.
Poor Qatol! He definitely seemed to have died to a sadist, as his killer doesn't immediately go for the kill at the end but literally twists the knife to make the wound hurt more. He also seems to be carrying a lot of knives or weapons, as shown when Qatol reaches toward the man and finds a knife sticking out. The "armed to the teeth" statement supports this, and I admit the confluence of teeth and knives does implicate Rice. What do you expect, with a profile picture of gangsta vampires with a knife?
I think the clicking in the first sentence is significant too. What would cause a man to make a clicking noise, if he wasn't cocking a gun? The post emphasizes that there were no shots fired, and thus presumably no gun. It might be teeth clicking or something else metallic about him.
Ver had been fighting off someone pathetic at fighting and what looked like a biker full of snake tattoos, crosses, and other shit he couldn't make out.
The man then jumped down to the next row of seats and grabbed Ver's other arm, he held him there like some prisoner chained to a wall while his accomplice did all the nasty work.
The clues here would be the man who looks pathetic at fighting but disarms Ver and holds him like a prisoner chained to the wall. I have another highly speculative reach here, based on the pathetic-at-fighting part and possibly the reference to prisons or captivity. The biker covered with tattoos and crosses is definitely a clue too, but I'm having trouble linking it to anyone right now. I'm assuming Ver surmised he was a biker from the tattoos, rather than "the biker" being a conclusive identity. For all I know, the mention of being covered in tattoos could just point to one of those people whose profiles are full of random stuff or pictures, thus the mention of "other shit he couldn't make out."
I vote to lynch Mandalor.
I won't vote for the double lynch yet because I'd like to know who else we'd be lynching, first.
Oh, and having read the rationale for voting for a double lynch, I guess I can agree with it.
I vote for double lynch.
On March 24 2009 05:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
For tommorrows lynching.
The top two suspects at the moment if i am correct are
Rice and Humbug?
Agreed, though I would feel a lot better if a DT could possibly clue-check one of these two. With a double lynch coming up, I really doubt we need to add a vigi hit into the mix, especially as our evidence seems shaky at best right now. Semioldguy, if you still haven't decided which Day One clues to check, it would be great if you could check things like the guy who pulls Chuiu to his feet only to stab him, the one who disarms him with both hands behind his head, or the third guy staying in the car.
And by the way...
On March 23 2009 17:41 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
From dreamflower's profile: http://www.teamliquid.net/userfiles/41975.jpg
(He pre-emptively thanked everyone for not bringing up this picture since his flower is blue, apparently missing the white flowers behind the blue one)
First of all, I'm a girl. Second, the flowers behind the blue rose in my picture are indeed white (and I'm surprised it took people that long to notice the picture at all, even with my preemptive thanking), but they are not dried either, which should make it a moot point. Just wanted to mention that.
Edit: Grrr, quote tags. I should learn to use the "Preview" button before I post.
@MrBabyHands: Well, I would say you've start earning some of your Ace- and Ver-advocated hype. (Though posting the Afro ninja picture has brought it back down a bit, and the original MS Paint picture was a little too weird.) However, I really like a lot of your clue analysis, particularly the points about LeperKahn and MasterofChaos. I read the Morning post over and over and never made the "luck" connection, but it does make a certain amount of sense considering some of Chuiu's past clues have worked. It's a good idea for a pretty difficult-to-decipher kill.
I'm still skeptical of the Scooter connection, because, like Rice, that seems a little too easy. I admit I also interpreted that part differently. I thought the tons of tattoos, crosses and other crap Ver couldn't make out might just refer to people's profiles with tons of stuff/pictures in them. Basically, lots of pictures on suspect's body = lots of pictures/information on profile, e.g. MasterofChaos, fusiondsf, LucasWoJ, mikeymoo. Weak connection, I know, but with only two sentences to work with, it was the best I could come up with.
I will try to add clue analysis later, though I seem to have gotten a lot of my conclusions wrong so far. -_- I figured Infundibulum was a blue, but I didn't suspect either Tricode or Scooter to be red, and I think I even listed mikeymoo as a possible suspect for a clue earlier. From first-approximation analysis, though, I get the feeling that Incognito's and Versatile's deaths might be connected (both are digging looking for clues and both die from head wounds), as are Camlito's and mikeymoo's (the stuff falling from the killer's pockets, dying by being beaten up with a weapon at hand: chair in Camlito's case, baseball bat in mikeymoo's).
Regarding suspects, I still like Humbug because of the collecting and deception references, as well as the similarities between mikeymoo's and Camlito's death (which was what brought up the suspicion of Humbug in the first place). For the cloud-person who killed Infundibulum, we might consider Trancestorm and Mista, just because their names sound sort of cloud/weather-related, their profiles are fairly bare and their activity has been pretty low (some voting, but no other contributions). Kennigit still sounds good to me from the "opening the door" clue, and Lurker rounds out the suspect list nicely with the buried/digging references.
Oh, and by the way, if anyone in the town has taken hits and been protected by a medic, please speak up. Ace's list of the twelve Zodiac members has almost been exhausted, so it stands to reason that more non-veteran townies still alive will be drawing both medic protection and hits. If you remember, this was part of BloodyCobbler's plan originally, and I still think it's a pretty good one.
Good luck, town, you're doing great.
After reading Chuiu's post, I feel better about my clue analysis being completely wrong most of the time, though, because I'm not sure I even understand a lot of those connections now (aside from some of the MoC and Snet ones) and definitely wouldn't have gotten them from the first reading.
Next time, though, let's have a game with experienced players distributed a lot more evenly between town and Mafia. For example, all of Ace's list of 12 were townies (and many of them were blues), not to mention semioldguy and Fishball. I know the roles were randomly assigned, but I can't help thinking that the resulting mass of inexperience and inactivity on the Mafia side doomed them a lot more than any ingenuity on the town's part (the exception being MrBabyHands, whom I'm starting to think possesses magical analytical powers).