TL Mafia 5 [Game Over] - Page 4

On March 20 2009 09:33 Ace wrote:
@Semi: and....why would the other vigi call his hit out too? That would be insane. Now you have TWO vigi kills that can be messed with. You guys keep forgetting this plan at best works if the target is MAFIA. Otherwise it's always a loss.

Also remember the chances of a vigi hitting a medic target, especially if we assume everyone is paying attention is 0. The target would have to be someone highly suspected as you guys put it right? The only other way is if the Vigi did a random kill and the medic did a random protection and both were the same people - something you can't solve easily in this game. Medics are going to use Night 1 to figure things out, and from then IF their protted target is hit on any other night they can just retrace steps to figure if it was a random vigi hit or a Mafia hit.

What you're suggesting puts too much out there for little gain. Really, no one needs to know publicly who's going to be hit by a Vigilante before it happens. sure he can send his PM in before the Mafia, but it doesn't mean shit unless the guy flips MAFIA. If it's innocent - we go right back to square one.

On March 20 2009 10:13 JL13 wrote:
2) Do vigi's stay silent and pray medics don't protect the target?

On March 20 2009 10:48 redtooth wrote:

Am I the only one questioning why a medic would protect a suspected mafia or a potential vigilante target? Pyrr's plan right now makes no sense. It would make some sense if the vigilante role claimed to SoG in private. That would actually produce the same results without the vigilante risking death. If the hit doesn't go through then SoG can publicly call the fake vigi out and it's probably gg for that dude.

Anyways, what's so important about getting the vigi exposed. I thought it'd be fine with him just keeping to the shadows and coming out in obvious situations. As long as medic doesn't act a fool and protect someone who is generally suspected of being mafia (even someone like Pikachu) then I'm sure vigis and medics won't collide.

On March 20 2009 10:59 redtooth wrote:
Like what. We prove that one guy is innocent. However, that man isn't even blue anymore because he used his power and now has all the use of a green towny. He's not useful to start a town circle around because he only has 1 life. I haven't thought too deep about it and may be missing a fragment of a grand plan but seriously doesn't look like there's much to gain with all this trouble.

What does this all mean? All veteran players are sitting ducks. It's impossible to protect everyone night 1 and there's a very high chance a blue or two is going to die on the first night. Sheriff can't do anything about it and the Mafia don't have to worry about Vigis yet.
Why in the fuck would a vigilante waste his hit so early? I am in no way suggesting we even protect the Vigis that call out hits, that's nowhere near the reasons I have been stating.

Now do you see the problem? If we reveal Vigilantes the Mafia get the added bonus of not only sniping vets but cherry picking how to counteract the Vigilante.
How do they counteract a Vigilante exactly? How can it benefit the Mafia to know who a vigilante is after he has used up his ability? Please provide some sort of scenario where the town is disadvantaged and/or the mafia is advantaged

The second set of clues yet isn't up and if you throw Vigis in there it's just going to be a mess. There isn't going to be any direction in searching for clues because you don't even have enough clues yet to compare what you might get yet. It's pointless.
But by the time Vigis can kill... there will be more clues. They can't even kill the first night and it is mentioned in Chuiu's post if you read it

They do NOT need to be known. Period.

Secondly let's assume your second situation happened. If the KP is 6 and there are 7 deaths how does that prove the Vigi that claimed hit the target? It doesnt because you don't know if any other vigis acted either.
Unless they are under the understanding that all Vigis who act need to name their target before it happens. This also prevents Vigis overlapping. Sure they get it back but they could die before they get to use their next hit which is essentially the same as them not using their hit at all and just dying.

Or what happens in the case where there are only 6 death and innocent dies that the Vigi called out but you didn't know that a medic stopped a mafia hit? You don't. You just said it yourself - you stopped 1 Mafia KP to put suspicion on a potential green, except you didn't stop the Mafia KP.
Then someone would end up coming forward saying they were protected. If it's not true then either one or the other or both are lying and we now have a suspect in a group of two. Seems pretty good to me. We don't trust either of them regardless, we wouldn't have trusted them before the incident either.

If an innocent dies during the night the Mafia would gladly have it come from the Vigi because really, who cares how it happened? An innocent died. You've just given the Mafia the advantage of added confusion in the town now having to figure out if this guy is legit.
Then we just don't worry about it. If all Vigis hold themselves to the same standard there is much less possible confusion than you suggest. We don't trust him regardless, but that doesn;t mean we have to waste time on him, just let that person go. Either he is innocent and letting him be doesn't hurt us or he is Mafia faking it and before very long it should be apparent that the numbers don't add up (it's not like it's a very large number) and then we have a certain mafia on a small list with a minimum 25% shot at getting him if it was random (which it isn't) compared to the current 18% if we just chose at random from the entire group. It's not like a Vigi who doesn't call a target is immune to killing someone innocent and then how are we any better off in that situation?

On March 20 2009 11:44 JL13 wrote:
Vigi can claim their hit was refunded, but then everything happens all over again, you have a Vigi with a wasted power until he chooses a red target. By then, that vigi should be dead anyway.

On March 20 2009 11:33 Bockit wrote:


Addressing this, and everyone worried about mafia canceling out a vigi hit:



It doesn't matter if you call your hit out, if your target is mafia, they can't kill their own guy, your hit will go through. If your target is innocent, then if mafia kill it first, your hit is refunded. If a vigi also targets the player, one of the two hits is refunded.

I think all this discussion on the topic is pointless, there is so little to be gained from claiming your hits before hitting them player as a vigi and about as little to be gained by not claiming. I say we leave it to the vigis and focus on something a little more relevant, like, I don't know, clue/behaviour analysis. We have nearly 30 pages of posts to work with already here.

Writeups in morning post may not happen in the same order people PM me them but actions will.

On March 20 2009 12:55 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:

he can also never have his kill refunded because the mafia will always hit a blue or green that the vigi isn't targetting.

edit blue or green instead of blue

On March 20 2009 16:59 blue_arrow wrote:


how come whenever somebody gets killed by something sharp, or whenever something is described as sharp, people always point to me?

this superficial connection has been made in almost every single mafia game I've been in =p

On March 20 2009 18:59 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
EDIT: Wrong thread.

On March 20 2009 18:59 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
WTF was bisu thinking with this build - Fantasy =/= fOrGG

On March 20 2009 18:59 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
WTF was bisu thinking with this build - Fantasy =/= fOrGG

EDIT TO ADD: wrong thread obviously :'(