EPTMafia count says (This includes Suicide Bomber) but Bomber is not in the list of Roles for the game.
TL Mafia 4
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Mafia count says (This includes Suicide Bomber) but Bomber is not in the list of Roles for the game. | ||
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Private Eyes: (PE) 1.) Don't use your rolecheck ability. Vote checks are far stronger and get more powerful as the game goes on. Rolechecks become far less useful. Attempting to use both isn't worth the risk as the only time you should use the rolecheck-guess is if you know the person's role 100%. If you already know, why use the rolecheck at all? (This system is just silly, Chuiu...  )2.) Announce in the thread before you use your Vote Check. The worst thing that can happen is that we have multiple Private Eyes check the same vote. Once you use your ability, you are basically a green so it doesn't matter if you reveal your role. Related, check the thread before you make your vote check to ensure you aren't duplicating a check. 3.) Immediately post the Vote Check results to the thread. As mentioned in 2, once used you are green. Your death would only help the town at that point as it means that a paramedic or detective is not dying! Sidenotes: Following the above means that mafia can pretend to be PEs and "claim" a vote, keeping our PEs from checking and then spreading false information. This is possible, but a dumb trade as the information can be ignored once the false calimer is revealed and it leads to more scrutiny of the claimer. Detectives: (DE) 1.) Use your abilities every day. Duh. 2.) Pay special attention to anyone who claims to be a PE. Paramedics: 1.) After you stop a hit, always let your target know about it via PM. They are 100% confirmed townies as there are no vigilantes in this game and Mafia cannot send a hit against themselves. Veteran: 1.) The only time you should use your extra vote is if the voting is close. Nght lives are far more important to you. General: If you are protected from a hit, DO NOT reveal your role to a medic who PMs you until some time has elapsed. As L showed in game 2, fake roleclaiming as a medic is a powerful tool as the Mafia know who they tried to hit and survived. The chances of them risking it are low as there are veterans in this game, but give it enough time for the "real" medic to pm you. ****EVERYONE VOTE**** PEs cannot check non-voters or abstains (Correct me if I am wrong here Chuiu) so if there are lots of inactive townie voters, then the mafia can simply not vote. If all the townies vote, the mafia is forced to as well lest they be picked apart by vote checks. Edit: Clarity. | ||
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On February 28 2009 21:22 BWdero wrote: Private eye. Hmm, seems like a good idea but as you said there is nothing stopping mafia from faking a check. How about this, anyone that presents a vote check is lynched as soon as possible to confirm their legitimacy. Should stop mafia from faking. Detectives. Agreed. Paramedics. Agreed. Veterans. Agreed. I thought about that but it really isn't worth it. We have very limited killing power this game as there are no vigilantes. We can lynch them if we have no other targets, but we are almost always going to have a better target. They are giving us a massive amount of information when they give a vote check. If they lie, they've handed themselves to us. As soon as the information contradicts what they've given us, it's a free kill. This will get more powerful as the game goes on, especially if that mafia had difficult clues. We just need to tie each Vote check to the name of the person who gives it and constantly monitor how reliable the information is. Don't reveal your role based on this information until the vote check information is confirmed. (IE if someone claims that 0 mafia voted for a person, don't send your role to all of those voters until the claimer is confirmed to be clean) One thing we cannot do is try to chain PEs via rolechecks after the first vote check. I tried working something out using this before my first post but it fails horribly to Mafia fake roleclaims. If Mafia fakes the first vote check, we lose every single vote check to failed guessed rolechecks!  DO NOT ROLECHECK. | ||
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If you want, we can easily centralize the town behind a Veteran. We need a Vet to publically come out and declare that he is a Veteran and say "I am going to use my extra vote on x", whomever that may be. No other veterans should use this ability once someone makes this declaration This ability will show up in Chuiu's vote list (and probably even the prevote) so we can confirm the Veteran as legit on Day 1. From there, everyone needs to PM the veteran their roles. The Veteran can then coordinate the PEs and Detectives, and coordinate the Medics to keep himself alive. The mafia can't bomb him! He needs to be careful regarding coordinating the medics since they can't use their powers consecutively. He can then publically disclose how many of each role was claimed, and who did not claim a role. Together with vote checks, this will become a vise that the mafia can't do much about. Discuss. | ||
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 Edit: Typo. | ||
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On February 28 2009 23:12 Scaramanga wrote: Also dont forget that mafia does have overkill at night three and we dont know how many mafia there are, Imo the plan would work if we had every single vet role claim, first night we use sanctuary on the vets, second night use overtime so vets get double life, then after that medics protect a different vet each night, so @BWdero yeah they can take one vet, but they cant take three edit: spelling I just wrote a long writeup in response to the others, but this is a better idea. Each Vet makes the claim and we send our roles to all of them. There is something though, we can't use abilities 2 consecutive days. So if we sanctuary Day 1, we can't overtime day 2, and it wouldn't even take effect until day 3. (Chuiu, can we vote for abilities on 2 consecutive days if the abilities would not take effect on consecutive days?) | ||
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1.) One vet roleclaims and uses their ability. 2.) Once confirmed via Chuiu's vote count, everyone PMs him their roles. 3.) Other Vets can confirm to him that they are vets by using their voting power. We now have all veterans confirmed but only 1 public. 4.) They coordinate medic protection. 5.) If the original vet dies, the other vets can use a mouthpiece. One vet should use a person who PMed the role of townie to speak in the thread. Do not reveal anything to that townie. If the Vet dies, the other vets immediately know that the townie was mafia. Edit: Clarity | ||
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On February 28 2009 23:48 Scaramanga wrote: Then use overtime and sanc on night 1, we can plan it out to have full protection from our roles for a while We can't use abilities on consecutive days. | ||
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On March 01 2009 00:06 BWdero wrote: Nice plan but how can the unknown vets prove themselves to the mouthpiece once the public vet dies? A mafia could easily fake being a vet to an innocent townie and use him as a mouthpiece to spread false information. A better idea would be that after the public vet dies have one of the unknown vets step forward and prove themselves via voting power. If multiple mouthpieces pop up, we can just have each confirm to the mouthpiece via pm. Whichever one can't is outed by the duped townie and we have a free mafia. Edit: It would actually be better to do it publically. Just have each Vet use their power to vote for their mouthpiece. The nonconfirmed vet is then outed by the duped mouthpiece. If we do it in private, it doesn't solve the case of Mafia Vet with Mafia Mouthpiece. | ||
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If you aren't playing to win, why are you playing at all? The Mafia is organized and knows their own roles. Why the fuck shouldn't we take steps to organize ourselves? Mafia are just going to claim to be something else or they are not going to PM at all. We don't learn anything. It isn't isntant win. It just allows us to act as a unit like the Mafia are rather than everyone acting randomly and possibly wasting abilities due to duplication. Why would you be against this at all? Shady, man. Very shady. | ||
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If you have an alternative into how we can have a confirmed cirle based off a private eye, I'm all ears. Look at Chuiu's past games. I'm willing to bet the game on the fact that there are not 0 or 1 Vetaran. Even if there is only 1 though, we haven't lost anything. We learn the total numbers of each role at the cost of 1 veteran. | ||
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On March 01 2009 00:50 Dyno. wrote: Screw it. I'm a veteran. Paramedics please protect me. Other veterans, do not use your extra vote today. I will use my extra vote today to verify I am indeed a veteran. State now who you are voting for. You have to say it in advance. | ||
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We now wait for the first Vote Count | ||
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On March 01 2009 00:55 redtooth wrote: Crap so much happened while I was writing my post. Hold up give me a second and I'll tell see if I can think of a plan. It doesn't matter much now. The Veteran Leader plan has started. | ||
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On March 01 2009 01:34 redtooth wrote: inertinept is essentially a dead man walking (unless people continue to not vote). Like BWdero stated we don't need to waste a check on him. Go ahead and check me (redtooth) and blue_arrow. Its better to just blindly throw out a cluecheck than it is to just let it waste and go to the next night. I'm holding off on voting for inertinept because I want to hear an argument. Will probably end up voting for him anyways but just wanted his two cents in it before we kill him off. By the way, what do you guys think of my little plan to prevent detectives from checking the same person? It's Moot. Once Dyno is confirmed, he can coordinate Detective checks to prevent overlap. | ||
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On March 01 2009 01:58 Naib wrote: That arises a question, though. I understand how you can prove to Dyno (if he's innocent) that you're a paramedic, and veteran, but what about the other roles? Here's what I thought (for detectives, as they haven't been discussed yet). Most likely mafia will try to impose as a detective, I think it's inevitable (they see how we weeded out the chances for veteran / paramedic, but maybe they'll try smth. there too, who knows). Anyway: if anyone claims that he has found a clue that links to a specific person, it'll be up to Dyno to trust him or not. If I were Dyno, I would accept a claim PM-ed to him because: if the PMer is a detective, the PM isn't forged, and we'll get a mafia member. If the PM is forged then we'll have a sure mafia even after we lynch an innocent person first. I would advise this as the path to take, after Dyno's proven to be a vet. Obviously, he should be proceeding caotiously until any detective catches (or claims to catch) a culprit. Most likely mafia will try to pose as a detective that simply can't find anything. Another, costly way to confirm detectives is to send them on missions, and lynch the target (regardless of being red or green). That takes a day of lynches (or half a double) just to confirm a detective's innocence, though. I wouldn't recommend this, waste of lives and time too. And anyway, detectives are deemed to get clues right once in a while, so we don't need the above paragraph. Just don't trust anyone with information as long as they only tell you "I checked X and he was innocent" Thoughts? P.s.: I'm going out now, will read stuff when I got back. Laters. There are lots of way to root out fake roleclaims. These aren't the best things to post publically, though. Once Dyno is confirmed, I'll share my thoughts. It isn't a big deal though. Dyno should be suspicious of everyone except for confirmed veterans. He can slowly build from there and give directions to all of the blues whether they are confirmed or not. | ||
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Make sure you PM Dyno. There is a period after his name. If you aren't sure, use the link on the first mafia page. | ||
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On March 01 2009 02:58 Amber[LighT] wrote: I mean how am I supposed to believe you? Dyno. is a veteran and used his extra ability to vote for Blue_arrow. Because Chuiu's vote check confirms that a vetaran used his ability to vote, it confirms that Dyno. is a veteran 100%. | ||
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On March 01 2009 03:06 Qatol wrote: I still argue that it is better to sanctuary the medics because it turns Dyno into a figurehead that the medics can all protect. If we are going to use sanctuary -> vet, ALL of the vets had better voteclaim to Dyno and then use their vet votes on random people so Dyno has a confirmed circle to start with. If it looks like sanctuary veteran is the call, I will gladly change my vote to that. That is the plan regarding the Veterans confirming themselves. Might as well protect them while they are vulnerable. | ||
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On March 01 2009 03:06 Scooter wrote: if we vote for Sanctuary day 1 it won't kick in until night 2 edit: changed my vote from Sanc Para to Sanc Vet Sanctuary says the following night, which means the night following the vote. Dyno. will be protected tonight. | ||
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On March 01 2009 03:14 Qatol wrote: I argue that we don't roleclaim them publicly. Instead veterans should PM their veteran vote to Dyno and he can spread the IDs of the vets to each other once the vets are confirmed Yes. That was the plan. Let me repost it: 1.) One vet roleclaims and uses their ability. Done 2.) Once confirmed via Chuiu's vote count, everyone PMs him their roles. Confirmed 3.) Other Vets can confirm to him that they are vets by using their voting power. We now have all veterans confirmed but only 1 public. 4.) They coordinate medic protection. 5.) If the original vet dies, the other vets can use a mouthpiece. One vet should use a person who PMed the role of townie to speak in the thread. Do not reveal anything to that townie. If the Vet dies, the other vets immediately know that the townie was mafia. Again, everyone PM your role to Dyno. | ||
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On March 01 2009 03:43 triflejack wrote: Since we have to lynch someone without justification anyway, let's just find a Bisu fanboy and kick them out Umm. We already had someone admit to being mafia there buddy... | ||
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On March 01 2009 04:56 zeks wrote: I vote for interinept and Sanctuary - Medic a more viable plan: vets use voting power medics protect each vet medics are protected by sanctuary And what happens when Dyno is dogpiled on Day 2? No sanctuary to protect and medics don't have their ability anymore? | ||
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PM Your role to Dyno. (Note there is a period at the end of his name. Use the link to his profile in the first post of this thread if you aren't sure) He is 100% confirmed to be a veteran. He is going to be spearheading our organization and leading us to victory! Even if you are just a Townie, be sure to PM Dyno. anyway. Every bit of information helps. | ||
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On March 01 2009 05:17 3clipse wrote: I vote for inertinept (obviously). And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this idea with Dyno make it awfully easy for the Mafia to get moles in posing as Vets? No. They cannot pose as vets. Every vet will be confirmed today by using their vote ability The same way we confirmed Dyno, they will confirm themselves to Dyno and start the circle. Any mafia that tries to pretend to be a vet is an instant free lynch. | ||
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On March 01 2009 06:00 fusionsdf wrote: I missed some pages how did we confirm dyno is a vet? Dyno said he was going to use his veteran vote power on blue_arrow. Chuiu then did a vote count and blue_arrow had a veteran vote. 100% confirmed. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=88236¤tpage=15#285 | ||
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On March 01 2009 07:32 fusionsdf wrote: They can pretend to be medics or detectives though can't they? Indeed. They pretty much have to pretend to be something or just not send in a PM. There are good ways to deal with both. PM Your role to Dyno. (Note there is a period at the end of his name. Use the link to his profile in the first post of this thread if you aren't sure) He is 100% confirmed to be a veteran. He is going to be spearheading our organization and leading us to victory! Even if you are just a Townie, be sure to PM Dyno. anyway. Every bit of information helps. | ||
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On March 01 2009 08:22 Caller wrote: I still don't know about inertinept. I abstain. On March 01 2009 03:31 inertinept wrote: yup I will confirm that I am mafia. I looked through the day one clues, and there is like 400 red herrings. mafia has absolutely no chance of winning, but good luck. please make the clues better next time, lmao. Yeah man. That is like completely arbitrary. Reminder PM Your role to Dyno. (Note there is a period at the end of his name. Use the link to his profile in the first post of this thread if you aren't sure) He is 100% confirmed to be a veteran. He is going to be spearheading our organization and leading us to victory! Even if you are just a Townie, be sure to PM Dyno. anyway. Every bit of information helps. | ||
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malongo inertinept Ra.Xor.2 aZnvaLiaNce Fishball motbob RebirthOfLeGenD Pyrrhuloxia triflejack pandabearguy HeRoS)Pink lakrismamma Phrujbaz fearus Teejing chaoser CynanMachae MasterOfChaos Night[Mare ulszz Athos d_so | ||
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Updated: inertinept Ra.Xor.2 aZnvaLiaNce Fishball motbob RebirthOfLeGenD Pyrrhuloxia triflejack pandabearguy HeRoS)Pink lakrismamma Phrujbaz fearus Teejing chaoser CynanMachae MasterOfChaos Night[Mare ulszz Athos d_so | ||
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The following have posted in the thread since Dyno was confirmed but have not sent their roles. Can't claim inactivity here. Many of them even voted. Night[Mare inertinept - lolconfession triflejack d_so Teejing aZnvaLiaNce Ra.Xor.2 Pyrrhuloxia HeRoS)Pink pandabearguy | ||
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On March 01 2009 14:03 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Here are more of my thoughts because I am apparenty being silent only posting 12 times a day. We've already got inertinept and now I think triflejack is pretty suspicious. He's got 12 posts and is thus very likely a smurf (I dunno how to find the few posts outside of this thread) Signing up: "I shall play this game. Sign me please" After accusations of smurfing occurs: "I'm guessing these guys are smurfs. Damn them." (How could someone who at this point has about 2 posts and yet know what smurfing means and know who the missing regulars are not be a smurf?) After PMs go out: I got my role! MAFIA (Who would want to create drama by jokingly calling themselves mafia other than mafia? Any non mafia would worry about sowing false fears about them and distracting the town. A mafia would probably be trying reverse psychology by appearing to appear secure in their innocence.) Well after we started lynching inertinept and calling sanctuary on veterans he says: "Since we have to lynch someone without justification anyway, let's just find a Bisu fanboy and kick them out" Another joke post: "Can we torture inertinept or threaten his family before he dies so we get the other mafia names? This straight-to-lynching thing seems inefficient to me" Then he votes without supporting sanctuary: "I vote inertinept" LTT said: "I think he believes that the clue that caught him wasn't actually pointing to him, which is why he was upset." Dunno why LTT would say this but if that's true, trifles are rather benign. Triflejack had nothing in his profile and no posts and thus if he was mafia all that could be used for clues for him is his name. Note that being a smurf doesn't make him more likely to be mafia, but this guy is pretty suspicious for reasons other than that. Also if anyone thinks I'm strangely silent I have more posts in this thread than this guy has in his entire TL career. Also if anyone was in the game where I was mafia you would remember that I was talkative as fuck when I was mafia, if I'm less talkative now it's because I have more friends and more of a life now (went to a concert tonight, got a party for Bisu vs Jaedong that I'm going to later, gotta drive my friend to an ice rink in a few hours). We were talking about Inertinepts confession post. Inertinept was angry at the 400 red herrings in the post implying that the benign man clue doesn't actually point to him. I agree that trifle is fishy. Regarding your PM claims, Dyno appears to be afk at the moment, so it might be a bit until you are cleared either way. Just sit tight. Edit: Clarity. | ||
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On March 01 2009 14:29 d_so wrote: right, that means we have 8 vets. i really wish the vets hadn't used up all their extra votes today. i mean, yeah, it's nice you have that extra vote, but now mafia knows there are at least 8 vets they have to contend with. also, we are using our town skill, sanctuary, an ability we can only use ONCE per game... on the very first turn? Why? If anything, use a paramedic to watch over dyno tonight, and since he should already know who the other vets are, if he were to die the next next turn, just transfer the list over to the next vet. imo we should save sanctuary. It also protects all of the vets who don't have the extra night life tonight. This is the perfect time to confirm them. That is why they are all voting. This was all part of the plan outlined like 10 pages ago. :x | ||
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Nonsubmitters: inertinept Ra.Xor.2 aZnvaLiaNce Fishball motbob RebirthOfLeGenD triflejack pandabearguy HeRoS)Pink lakrismamma Phrujbaz fearus Teejing chaoser CynanMachae MasterOfChaos Night[Mare ulszz Athos d_so More interesting list- The following have posted in the thread since Dyno was confirmed but have not sent their roles. Can't claim inactivity here. Many of them even voted. Night[Mare inertinept - lolconfession triflejack d_so Teejing aZnvaLiaNce Ra.Xor.2 HeRoS)Pink pandabearguy | ||
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On March 01 2009 14:46 d_so wrote: well, i guess it's good because dyno can check the number of people who claim are vets on his list vs the number of actual vets who voted. at the same time, we lose sanctuary. i havent sent my role to dyno yet... partly because I don't understand/trust the plan. so say everyone sends their role. the only thing we can confirm is the number of vets we have is greater than or equal to 8. we have no idea how many people are lying, and also... it almost feels like we're cheating, in a way, to openly discuss our roles like this We have a 100% confirmed group of vets who knows anc can coordinate everyone's role to maximum efficiency. They still have to root out any fake blues, fake townies, and those who don't send their PM. I just don't see what is so difficult to understand here... | ||
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On March 01 2009 14:46 d_so wrote: edit: double posted. oh and one more thing: read backlash again. whoever is their don now knows all 8 vets have voted. if he activates backlash, that means EIGHT random mafia get an extra life roflmao That means very very little. We have no vigilantes so it only protects them from bombs for that night. Our main killing weapon is lynches. Edit: It doesn't even protect them from bombs as the bombs aren't targetting them anymore, although I don't know if it moves existing bombs or just reroutes placed bombs... | ||
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On March 01 2009 14:55 d_so wrote: adding to my previous post: Backlash: On the following day whenever a player uses a special ability it works as if the mafia used the ability on the player instead. Quick summary: clue checks do nothing, medic covers random mafia players, veterans vote for their targets but random mafia will gain extra lives, private eyes are revealed to mafia or their vote check goes to show how many private eyes voted for the player, and mad hatters place a bomb on themselves. These happen if and only if the players in question use their abilities and no player will be notified of the change until the day after. Night lives... We aren't killing at night. An extra life doesn't prevent Veterans from being lynched once... | ||
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inertinept aZnvaLiaNce Fishball motbob triflejack pandabearguy HeRoS)Pink lakrismamma Phrujbaz fearus Teejing chaoser MasterOfChaos ulszz Athos d_so More interesting list- The following have posted in the thread since Dyno was confirmed but have not sent their roles. Can't claim inactivity here. Many of them even voted. inertinept - lolconfession triflejack d_so Teejing aZnvaLiaNce HeRoS)Pink pandabearguy Unhappy with this attention? Make sure you pm Dyno. with your role. Even if you are a townie, you are helping us tighten the vise on the Mafia. Additionally, sending a PM to say that you refuse to reveal is silly... | ||
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Nonsubmitters: inertinept aZnvaLiaNce motbob Fishball pandabearguy HeRoS)Pink lakrismamma Phrujbaz fearus Teejing chaoser MasterOfChaos ulszz Athos d_so More interesting list- The following have posted in the thread since Dyno was confirmed but have not sent their roles. Can't claim inactivity here. Many of them even voted. inertinept - lolconfession d_so Teejing aZnvaLiaNce HeRoS)Pink pandabearguy Fishball Unhappy with this attention? Make sure you pm Dyno. with your role. Even if you are a townie, you are helping us tighten the vise on the Mafia. Additionally, sending a PM to say that you refuse to reveal is silly... Edit: Typo on Before. Haven't slept for 21.5 hours. | ||
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The main one being this: On March 01 2009 21:42 Dyno. wrote: I'm going to sleep now, and I work a 9 hour shift tomorrow. I won't be home until around 8:30 PST. He won't be online for another hour and 20 minutes or so. | ||
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On March 02 2009 13:50 zeks wrote: lol i just noticed that there is no green you are either blue or red so everyone has a special role EDIT: Prepare yourselves town...i am pretty sure killing power is not /2 now since there are so many vets (would make it imba) more like /3 ... giving a grand total of 15 mafia - that'd make a lot more sense According to the top post of this page, BC said the formula was still /2 rounded up. | ||
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Edit: There were 53 voters. Notice he just changed it to /26. | ||
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Fishball lakrismamma fearus Malongo just took a list of everyone who voted but did not vote for inertinept, I think. | ||
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Edit: It happened exactly 6 posts above the post you quoted. | ||
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Edit: Just a note. Don't roleclaim a role that isn't in the game. | ||
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On March 03 2009 13:40 LucasWoJ wrote: Whoops, my bad Qatol, haha. Congrats for that. Someone pointed it out earlier in the thread (zeks, perhaps?), but I didn't make too much of it. Mafia played horribly this game. Zeks noticed it on page 28. Qatol found it around page 13. | ||
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On March 03 2009 13:53 Trezeguet23 wrote: There are ways to check to see if we are indeed these roles, and I agree that your clever plan could work for a long time, but it would take us at least 12 days to kill them all assuming we didn't hit a single medic. And with the help of clues it is more realistic that it would take us 16 days if not more. Over the course of this time, they could weed us out and reduce our killing power even more. I am not saying that not claiming townie would have increased our time in game, but overall our task is futile. Take a look at Mafia 2. An organized town doesn't guarantee a blowout. | ||
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