TL Mafia 2 [GG]
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Ghar
Australia62 Posts
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Ghar
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Ghar
Australia62 Posts
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Ghar
Australia62 Posts
There's not much to say in regards to why I'm a better candidate than everyone else , but here's why I'm not a worse candidate than any you're thinking of voting. The only guaranteed way to know I'm not mafia or anyone else is to have a detective check me up. But at the moment that's not feasible, so all claims of not being mafia are moot until the election is done it seems. I don't know any of you guys because I'm new. But that shouldn't be a disadvantage because people you know could just as easily be mafia. My thoughts on how to throttle the mafia, for even if I'm not elected mayor: - A detective should investigate me should I get the job. Once cleared that the mayor is not mafia, the detective should PM the mayor the role the mayor originally got as evidence he is detective, of course it doesn't make for strong proof, but should the mayor have an exotic role, then its pretty strong evidence that the detective is a detective if he got the role correct. From there a team can be developed, people with roles should PM the mayor, and he sends detectives to investigate them to be sure. Only mafia would fake roles, so investigating them serves as hard proof of their legit role, or will reveal a mafia faking a role. Sure this wastes the detective's valuable limit of 2, but its served a good purpose than a blind investigate once the mayor is investigated. Jacks should be recruited first. Once this network is built, then the detective privately relays their findings to the mayor who announces findings while safe from mafia hit so medics are not needed and assuring the anonymity of the detective. This is just a brief idea of some of the plans I have as mayor. I'm happy to answer any questions or queries. Feedback on my plan is also appreciated. Candidate Ghar. Lets kill mafia. | ||
Ghar
Australia62 Posts
Most important roles to ally with the mayor are detectives, jacks, vigilantes, and medics. Detectives and jacks for investigating roles. I won't reveal this too much since it could help mafia plan their strategy if they haven't already thought of it, but I'll discuss it further with detectives. Vigilantes for killing power on top of lynching. Though at the moment I'm still contemplating whether it's beneficial to start weeding numbers quickly, or wait until a relatively sure kill before attacking. Medics to make sure our jacks, detectives and vigilantes are alive. Vets are just cannon fodder I think, best used to dull down mafia hits per night. They wouldn't serve a direct strategy for weeding out mafia unless anyone has ideas. Thoughts and suggestions guys? | ||
Ghar
Australia62 Posts
On March 18 2008 16:40 Ace wrote: I like to start the game off with weeding out strats that are easy to follow - this controls discussion and gives everyone focal points. One of the biggest reasons the Townies always lose is because they start posting nonsense, arguing about retarded shit, revenge voting, and seem to listen to the most nonsense posts for voting someone to get lynched. With weeding strats: 1.) We keep the focus on a few people 2.) allows the Detectives to split up their work. If they see the town gunning for some people, they can investigate OTHER people. This is a major help. 3.) Mafia members can no longer sit back and watch the town kill themselves - they have to get in on discussions. This way, they are in the spotlight just like we need them to be. A few things though. Detectives can only investigate 2 people. That means the bulk of their work will be interpreting clues and vote checks. They have to choose who they investigate carefully, and I think it's best done with people confirming roles to the mayor. I have other ideas for detectives, but that's for later in case mafia picks up on it. | ||
Ghar
Australia62 Posts
My campaign title. Ghar- The man with the plan. 1. I'm on the forum when I have free time. Being on more or less won't win the game, so screw that. 2. analyze clues. Anyone can do that. I plan to do things that only a mayor could do, and that is co-ordinate a counter attack on the mafia, taking advantage of being invulnerable from mafia hits so long as my bodyguards are alive. 3. Everyone's dodging the possibility of being mafia if elected. My answer to that, you can't be sure of anyone. I'm offering to put myself up for detective scrutiny, and be lynched if I am mafia after I got the job. Not an ideal solution, but it's not like you could get a better deal. I can prove I am not mafia after I get the job when detectives can do their thing. 4. I reckon Fakesteve is an alright bloke, so I won't spit on his name. And it has no bearings on winning. 5. I won't jump to inane possibilities about clues right now because that's the detective's job. Having all the sigs and stuff available is irrelevant at this point. Co-ordinating are resources is better. With that said. Ghar for mayor I expect to be mafia hit/lynched very quickly if I don't get the job. But this is my all for broke strategy to get into the thick of things. | ||
Ghar
Australia62 Posts
On March 18 2008 16:52 ahrara_ wrote: Ghar, your plan is seriously flawed. I don't think you've thought this through, which is why I'm going to encourage people not to vote for you. If there was a contest over best election poster however, you'd win by a landslide. There are four detectives. They can use their role finding abilities twice in the game, and once a day. However, noone knows who the detectives are. A mafia mayor could have a fellow mobster, even two, pretend to be detectives and report that you're the mayor. You could have the detectives detect the detectives, but that'd cause the same problem, and the real detectives would be using their abilities in vain. So it's not that easy, but at least it's better than what FS did. edit: For chrissake, if you're going to run for mayor, do more than a half-assed job. Can't be worse than fakesteve doesn't cut it. I appreciate the the analysis. Scenario 1: If I'm mafia and I get mayor. Real detectives will point me out and swifty lynch me if I'm mafia. Have him lynched to prove he's a real detective. Once the detective is killed and revealed to be a real detective, then I'll die quickly Scenario 2: If I'm not mafia and I get mayor: Unless a townie wants to ruin me, only a mafia would pretend to be detective. real detectives will confirm to me in private. If I don't get a public protest. I'm clean. Townies wouldn't pretend to be detective unless they want to ruin the game. Real detectives will reveal my role in private and vouch for me with silence. Only a mafia would claim to be detective in the open and say I'm mafia. Kill him, and see that he's mafia, and I'm right. Am I clear, my thoughts didn't translate too well in this post. | ||
Ghar
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Ghar
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Ghar
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Ghar
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If I get mayor, you will have direct confirmation whether I'm mafia or not. As for the rest, they're not offering any plan of action to prove themselves. Taipan Snake is an Australian snake, and you are from Australia, so there is a chance you are mafia! There's a chance anyone can be mafia. That you're playing the game confirms it. | ||
Ghar
Australia62 Posts
If I'm innocent, they find that out, then they reveal to me in private that they are detective. Edit: Yes, every detective would have to check me, but it's worth it since it confirms that they are real detectives to me, and they know I'm legit. Nothing comes without cost. Better to investigate someone important than random people. | ||
Ghar
Australia62 Posts
Ghar's plan sounds reasonable, but the detectives can do that for every mayor and not just not him. I don't see a real flaw in the plan, but I am hoping a more experienced mafia player can point out one or two. I can't be that easy. Also, is it worth it for the mafia to loose one member like that if they can take out the mayor and 1 or 2 detectives? (Sorry for being such a noob). It offers more than that, it offers that you know that your mayor is legit or not. In the worst of circumstances, at least you won't have a mayor leading you in a goose chase. You can't be sure the other candidates are not mafia. I'm offering peace of mind that you will find out very soon should I be elected. In the best of circumstances, you have a network of people working together. Also I am offering a plan, which the others are not. Direction and teamwork is important no? | ||
Ghar
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How would you know they are actually DTs though, could just as easily be mafia saying "hay, I checked you out, you're legit, and I'm a DT". Given that would mean more than four people would message you, but you still wouldn't know who is lying. Not to mention of not all DTs are active, or follow the plan. There are a few things I would ask them to do before I'd be satisfied they're legit. I won't disclose that at the moment in case mafia make a counter strategy. let's analyze a bit. In case you happen to be a mafia and a detective finds it out, mafia sacrifies a simple member to a town's ability to have extra mafia lynches. sounds very appealing from mafia's perspective. so this is NOT a good, convincing plan. And you still did nothing for me not to suspect you. It's better than having a mafia mayor leading people to death. What I'm aiming for though is the best case scenario to set up a network of people with roles, that gives the best chance at winning. I'm not trying to convince you, I said already, all claims of not being mafia are moot. I'm providing a strategy to victory, because that's more feasible than trying to clear a name that can't be cleared at the moment | ||
Ghar
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Ghar
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The best scenario still outweighs the worse scenario. And the worse case scenario is no worse than if you elected anyone else. I stake my innocence by that strategy if people really want to find out if their mayor is innocent. Well, keeping track of the profiles, etc. does benefit us, but more to the point, he bothered to do it. If he was Mafia, that would be a questionable move: who knows how long it would take for us to get the information together otherwise? Therefore I think that araav's using his programming skills to help the town is an indication that he is a towny. At the consequence of what? Becoming mayor. There is nothing right now that can make anyone less suspicious than another. | ||
Ghar
Australia62 Posts
Double lynches still require a majority vote which include the mafia. Vigilantes can kill without all that hassle, plus co-ordinating detectives, will let me announce their work without fear of mafia retaliation, and lead more intelligent lynchings. He's not guaranteed to become mayor. You're right, it doesn't prove he's a towny--we can play the double-feint game forever--but it's still something. At the end of the day, the Mafia doesn't want the list up, and if they can get away with no one posting it, they would prefer that. With your vote, he becomes one step closer to being mayor, for some small work like getting the profiles, if I was a mafia, I think something like that would worth being able to not only off the mayor, but use him to your advantage. If the list is that important, someone will do it sooner or later. Mafia can't do anything to stop that, they might as well use it to their advantage, You could rationalize. | ||
Ghar
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And I support Ace. Don't know if he's towny or not, but we think alike. So should I end up not getting enough votes, Ace would make a nice alternative if we need to combine votes to win. | ||
Ghar
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But you missed the full quote. Ghar's quote refers to this situation: (This is a direct cut-paste from http://www.nevadadailymail.com/blogs/stevemoyer/entry/16036/) "When the Marines were cut off behind enemy lines and the Army had written the 1st Marine Division off as being lost because they were surrounded by 22 enemy divisions. The Marines made it out inflicting the highest casualty ratio on an enemy in history and destroying 7 entire enemy divisions in the process. It generated three versions of a Chesty Puller quote. I'm not sure which is accurate but they are all quotable." One of the quotes is the one in the sig. Did I miss something, or did they change their rationale from 8 directions vs 8 people. to 7 enemy divisions vs 8 people. If you like changing your rationale so much. Maybe because they were marines, means they used guns, and Dapperdan was killed with a gun. So that must mean it links me. Because no one else could be linked to something so unique like the number 8 or guns, or where snakes come from for that matter. | ||
Ghar
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Ghar: So far, all we know about him is that he registered for the forum for the mafia game, and that his plan of action is for all the detectives to PM him. I don't really like this, because the best scenario is a guy who knows who all the detectives are, with the addition of a few mafia. The worst scenario is a mafioso who is willing to sacrifice himself in return for denying the town a mayor and as many detectives as possibile. No, that's not it. Having detectives means I can verify vigilantes and jacks. Having detectives work together means efficient effort, each can ask Chuiu different questions about clues, check up on multiple lynch votes. Having vigilantes means they won't strike blindly, but with Detective aid. In the worse scenario, this applies to everyone, not just me. Because all the detectives will have investigated me. If I'm mafia, only one steps out and accuses me. If I'm the real deal, they are confirmed by their investigation, and then come to me. The detectives are not at risk. | ||
Ghar
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Ghar
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Ghar's "detective" propostion has a high cost: we blow half of our detectives' most important ability on the first night. What do we gain for losing this? We know whether or not our mayor is Mafia. But this is not even such valuable information! If he is elected already, there is nothing we can do about losing the double lynches. THE "DETECTIVE PLAN" IS NOT WORTH IT. 8 investigates, it's unlikely the detectives will find a mafia with each one. particularly when mafia have 9 kills a night. What I propose is detectives working together, using their other abilities. To do that though, they need total confidence in the mayor. What would you propose the detectives do? Work alone? Trust the mayor without really being sure? | ||
Ghar
Australia62 Posts
Detectives are unlikely to to be accurate with their choices this early in the game, but holding onto it for too long runs the risk of being killed before they can use it. I say detectives can function effectively without the 2 investigates if they work as a team, because being able to ask Chuiu to tie a name to a clue is almost as good as investigating if you work together intelligently with other detectives, along with vote counts. The network I'm proposing is more powerful than the detectives limited 2 time skill. Detectives have full confidence in the mayor, and each other. The Mayor stands out in the open and voices their findings so they're safe and hidden, and slowly the network expands as more people are confirmed innocent. | ||
Ghar
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Ghar
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Ace's plan = Bodyguard gets 2 PMs, 1 from Chuiu, and 1 from the Mayor telling him who the other bodyguards are. The number has to add up, anybody guard that didn't get a PM from the mayor, stands up and speaks out. | ||
Ghar
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Ghar
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I'm losing pretty badly right now, but Ghar for mayor folks. | ||
Ghar
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I also stand firmly that my theory though costly, is still safe. And I'm not giving up on my few supporters. If anyone else thinks I have something to offer, they'll see that I'm fighting to the end. I don't want to take away Ace's supporters though, they're good where they are. But anyone else that hasn't voted yet, I'm willing to answer questions regarding my plan and see if you think it's mayor material | ||
Ghar
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If he's mafia, he obviously won't get hit. If he's not mafia. The mafia might let him live, making the townies suspicious, likely making us waste a lynching on Empyrean. | ||
Ghar
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Ghar
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On March 20 2008 07:01 Wysp wrote: I just want to comment, we can't go crazy with detective role checking. Only get a couple shots with it and there are plenty of people. Yeah, my plan is to have all detectives check the mayor so they each are confident in the mayor, and utilize their other abilities together. The other skills are almost as good as role checking when used properly. | ||
Ghar
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On March 20 2008 08:40 Bockit wrote: Only flaw I can think of is with the "detectives remain silent for innocence". That assumes that at least one detective / 4 will use up 1 of their rolecheckers, and not all 4 will think, oh one of the others is sure to do it. Though I'm not suggesting we should kill of a detective to confirm, OR that the plan is massively flawed, I'm just pointing out. That is unless I'm missing something... The plan is though that detectives work with the mayor, if you were a detective, wouldn't you want to be confident that the guy you're opening up to is legit? | ||
Ghar
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Also, why is everyone so confident that Ace and randombum are clean? While Ace's plan is pretty good, that shouldn't guarantee his innocence. We're not, Ace is voted because he has a plan of action that will benefit the town even if he were say mafia. Bum is just voted to kick Emp off because of his irrational approach to being elected. I have a concern with Ace's plan: suppose that the mayor is townie and all the bodyguards get the right messages then suppose that a mafia false claims that hes a bodyguard. that means we'll end up killing several bodyguards and potentially the mayor for a mafiaso. not a good trade. If the mayor is innocent, then he'll straight out deny the fake bodyguards, thus we have free mafia to kill without any wasted effort. | ||
Ghar
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On March 20 2008 09:33 HeRoS)Pink wrote: what I mean is that its useless to quote what someone say if u remove his name, it could be a fake quote just to fuck everyone, i dont mean its what he's doing but it would be better to leave the name in the quote to avoid such thing Ah sorry. Didn't know that's what you meant. There's so many posts going on, usually I just highlight relevant sections of a post I want to quote. Sorry about the confusion. | ||
Ghar
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For peace of mind of the masses, I agree to be lynched once Ace has killed all people on his suspect list, and the town is lacking a sure hit. Reasons for this. I don't want to waste a towny lynch while there are confirmed suspects. But when there's no suspects, it's easier to kill me instead of detective checking a bunch of clues against me. But for the meantime I'd like to stay alive. | ||
Ghar
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I don't know of any way a vet can prove he's a vet unless the town does something stupid like send a vigilante on him. It almost guarantees safety from lynching if they isn't any role clashing. When there is a clash, you have a list of suspects but it is unfeasible to check. Medic role claimers, from a mafia perspective, so long as they avoid the names they've been sent to protect, they strengthen the notion that they are legit medics. | ||
Ghar
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Working on abstained voters, you can't really work on them can you? | ||
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In addition, any mafia that enters the split bandwagon will alter the mafia count, they can be quickly isolated. Any innocents that enter the bandwagon without altering the mafia count can be crossed off as innocent. And your approach on the abstained can also be carried out at the same time as Ace's plan. I don't know how useful the information gained from it is though. On March 26 2008 17:01 Alethios wrote: On that point: Ace is not suggesting we Cross Reference. His plan involves splitting the list and re-checking numbers. Cross referencing is taking a new sample, and a new number... and seeing how many people are on both lists, how many people suddenly dropped out from voting. How many people aren't on either list and so forth. Working with abstained voters: Chuiu, can detectives check abstain lists? We can ask why they abstained, check the number of times they abstain, look for patterns of inactivity or unwillingness to vote... Suggesting that abstaining voters aren't able to be examined is highly flawed. (Remember inactive non-voters are kicked). | ||
Ghar
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On March 28 2008 11:44 Showtime! wrote: I have a big fucking complaint which might get this game closed. Our 'programmer' from Armenia decided to take it upon himself to infiltrate a chatroom where many of our key players were located. :. he knows many of our key players and this is just down right wrong. We might have to re-start the bloody game now. This is obviously against the rules. I'm down right pissed. Ban araav please you unethical bastard. It's understandable that you're upset, but your demand is unreasonable. Chuiu doesn't provide for chatrooms. I also doubt that he would restart the game because of something that wasn't part of his plans. What he did was wrong, though from a mafia perspective it's espionage. But your demands are unreasonable. | ||
Ghar
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Ghar
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On March 29 2008 01:52 Showtime! wrote: I have an idea: For extra-motivation I would like to place bets with other regular townies. This is how it works: you place your wager, it can be anything!! i.e. paypal money bet, quote bet, profile bet, etc. Both betters must submit a suspect list of 20 players they believe to be mafia. At the end of the game when all the mafia are revealed, the person with the most correct wins. Fairly simple no? The bet is only valid if the two betters are townies. Interesting bet. I'd participate, but I don't have an impression of most people yet. And I fall into the stupid habit of becoming suspicious of people who don't agree with me. I couldn't get my mind around understanding anyone who wouldn't vote for me and Ace. Well, me, fair enough that I had clues pointing at me. | ||
Ghar
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If he only means to have one person of suspect 1 and 2 killed, then who's the second lynch for? I might be confused, if I am, my apologies. | ||
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On March 29 2008 03:49 Kau wrote: You're suppose to use your second vote on anyone but the original 4 (suspect 1, suspect 2, ace, randombum). I think the goal is to kill both suspects, so the second votes must be spread thinly enough so that this happens. It makes more sense now that you put it as spreading the second vote out so that suspect #2 will take precedence over the second lynch, but then instructing people to abstain the second vote would be clearer, and less error prone. I kept thinking of it as 2 separate lynchings, once one lynching is done, the slate is wiped clean for lynching 2, but if Chuiu is combining the vote count, then your solution would be the most consistent with his actions. Thanks, that clears up alot. | ||
Ghar
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