TL Mafia 2 [GG] - Page 2

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Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 22:17 GMT

#687

On March 19 2008 07:15 qrs wrote:

Show nested quote +

The problem is: the pardoner role is not so useful to the town, but it is rather useful to the Mafia.

False. If the pardoner pardons someone out of the blue, it'll invite serious suspicion. If I'm mayor, it'll guarantee that the people he pardons are legitimate townies (although I won't really want to waste a detection on confirming that).

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 22:18 GMT

#688

On March 19 2008 07:17 Mynock wrote:

Show nested quote +

That's your personal view of course, so be it.

But if a mayor says that it's the best thing for the town if a mayor is a Suicide Bomber (a MAFIA role) then... Well, I rest my case.

You're right.

I just reread the first post; a suicide bomber wouldn't be a good choice at all for a mayor O_o.

I thought suicide bomber was in a "third party" without allegiances. Kind of like in Tracil's game.

Haha. That's probably what I get for reading 30+ pages at a time.

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 22:20 GMT

#689

On March 19 2008 07:01 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:
we don't want a mafia mayor, because if you do anything that points to being mafia we'll have to lynch you, and lose the benefits of having a mayor. it was not the best idea to say you're detective, as people mentioned, your word alone isn't sufficient enough for us to believe you, and in revealing your role makes you seem a bit selfish in terms of wanting to be assured protection, which isn't a good quality for the mayor.

As a potential mayor, it's my job to have the town's best interest in mind.

The town's best interest would be to vote me. However, I wouldn't get nearly the amount of votes I would get if I hadn't revealed my role. I know that may sound harsh and counter-intuitive, but just trust me here.

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 22:21 GMT

#693

No, the pardoner should use the role when he has enough conviction to believe that the town is falsely lynching.

If there were a mafia pardoner who decides to pardon a mafia member without a "good" reason, the town will suspect him anyway, leading to the revelation of another mafia.

Besides, I can always confirm someone's role.

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 22:22 GMT

#695

Also: (only not editing because this thread has lots of viewers, so they don't miss this)

Keep in mind, though, that I can only do it twice a game. My powers are basically limited to determining whether or not a specific clue points to a specific person.

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 22:23 GMT

#697

On March 19 2008 07:22 qrs wrote:

Show nested quote +

How would the town know that the person he pardoned was Mafia?

If the pardoner randomly pardons ANYONE, it would invite suspicion. Then more analysis can be made through the clues.

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 22:50 GMT

#723

On March 19 2008 07:39 ahrara_ wrote:
Voting for Empyrean is the WORST option we have, from a cost-benefit point of view.

Empyrean does not appear to have read much of the analysis from last night, including Ace's Bodyguard plan. He doesn't appear to have a good grasp of what's going on. He is basically trying to coerce us into voting for him because he may or may not be a detective.

How good each scenario is, in order, with how good each scenario is on a scale of 1-10, 5 being neutral.

The best we can do by voting for emp is a 6. The worst is a 1. The best we can do by NOT voting for Emp is a 10, and the worst is a 4. Losing a detective is not a huge loss because we have a lot.

Do NOT vote for Empyrean.

Lightning edit: I wrote "best" instead of "worst".

1. You think I haven't read the whole thread? Yes, I'm well aware of Ace and Ghar's mayoral strategies, as well as the bodyguard plan.

2. You cannot assign each action on your arbitrary scale. A cost-benefit analysis of this is essentially worthless.

3. Losing a detective is not a huge loss?

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 22:52 GMT

#725

On March 19 2008 07:31 MasterOfChaos wrote:
One thing about detective is, that they should mostly ask about who voted for a specific person. A question about a clue has a shannon-entropy of atmost one bit, whereas the question about how many people voted for a specific person usually leads to a significantly higher entropy.

Yes, I agree. We should save the "what is this person's role" investigations until the endgame.

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 22:53 GMT

#726

On March 19 2008 07:39 ahrara_ wrote:
...Ace will coordinate the real detectives

Such cleverly disguised misdirection against me won't work.

Don't use such a leading tone; you incite suspicion against yourself.

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 22:58 GMT

#731

1. Yes. I am acting very selfishly. It still benefits the town to guarantee that I'm a protected position.
2. I support your plan. I probably should have made that more clear.

Think about it from a mafia standpoint: If I truly were mafia roleclaiming to be detective, once the election is over and under your plan, the detectives reveal their clues (not publically, of course), it'll be obvious that I wasn't a detective. So why would the mafia risk such a scenario?

Quick edit.

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 23:22 GMT

#750

Well, I only want to be mayor to ensure that we get a good townie role as mayor. I'm essentially running off of nothing except my word. However, assuming all the other candidates are townies, I don't know if they have an other abilities either. I'm sure some of them do and just aren't as brash as I am, for better or for worse. I'm basically trying to assure the town of a detective mayor, and by revealing that I am a detective, pretty much guaranteed we get a detective mayor.

Besides, during the first night, another detectives can verify my role (although it would be very easy for a mafia member to pose a detective while framing me).

It's a leap of faith thing. But since no better "roles" came up for the mayoral election, I decided to reveal mine and ensure a good mayoral candidate.

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 23:24 GMT

#751

And also: my acting selfishly helps the town since I am a member of the town.

I'll explain everything fully. Just as me some questions.

(and in game now, but feel free to ask me the questions!)

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 23:30 GMT

#755

On March 19 2008 08:25 Ace wrote:

Show nested quote +

None of us can prove that he is the Detective. Basically, it's all going off of his wording and that we should trust him. That is a MAJOR problem for the Town.

My problem with your candidacy is that the same thing could apply. You could be mafia as well, and all we have is your word. I'm basically going to be adopting a similar plan, so why not vote for the candidate who actually has a role? (Of course, you may as well.)

Also, I don't agree with the bodyguard plan qrs posted wholly - if the mayor were mafia, he could have a mafia member "reveal" that he was a bodyguard, and then the mafia would know the player's jobs/plan/etc., as well as waste a significant amount of paramedic protection.

That's why I think that we should investigate any person who claims bodyguard first.

But seriously.

If I'm elected, just get other detectives to check my role. The mafia will certainly fake some detectives, but I have ways around that which I can't reveal at the moment because it would compromise the method.

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 23:31 GMT

#756

On March 19 2008 08:29 Ace wrote:
Empyrean, your posts are not convincing at all. Sorry, but really like you stated it's an act of blind faith which by itself isn't a bad thing - but claiming that you are a Detective early in the game when it can not be verified hurts the town.

You do realize this don't you?

The role can be verified after the election. What difference would it make? I'm 100% a detective, and by issuing the "ultimatum", I'm guaranteeing that we get a townie detective mayor. It's selfish, but also in the best interests of the town.

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 23:35 GMT

#761

The problem is, without detective verification, it will be much too easy for the mafia to fake that.

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 23:49 GMT

#779

A selfish townie mayor is good for the town - he'll do everything he can to ensure town victory.

Furthermore, as I was going to be unavailable after my initial post, to only way I could get myself elected was to reveal my role. It's the only way I know of that we would have been guaranteed a townie mayor. While Ace and araav are great choices, I can't know their allegiance. By forcing people to vote for me or face the consequences of losing a detective, I am ensuring a townie mayor.

My first post was made, then hours passed, then my second post was made, then hours passed, and then I started to get active in this thread.

In case anyone has doubts, please investigate me or ask me to perform some detective duties.

To me, the ends justify the means. That's the sole reason I revealed my role.

EDIT: time confusion.

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 18 2008 23:51 GMT

#782

On March 19 2008 08:47 Wysp wrote:
So come on Empyrean, start dishing us some good shit if you want votes.

Fine. One of my plans to reveal mafia was to ask for a "detective confirmation", in which I would ask, publically all detectives to investigate a bodyguard and PM me the results. I wouldn't reveal that it was a bodyguard.

To all those mafia who thought that they could gain my trust, I could immediately know the identity of any mafia who reported to me, but didn't report that the person was a bodyguard.

Now, of course, that plan's worthless. I was going to keep my plans secret until I was elected, but it's becoming apparent that I have to give some of them away.

Empyrean

17069 Posts

March 19 2008 00:01 GMT

#791

On March 19 2008 08:57 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:

Show nested quote +

+ Show Spoiler [Empyreans post for mayor] +

On March 18 2008 19:33 Empyrean wrote:
I just woke up!

I'm running for mayor as well.

I have previous mafia experience, and have a good idea of how mafia like to conduct things.

Furthermore, I'll take everyone's opinion into consideration, as well as analyze everything myself.

The most important reason, and this is kind of risky saying it, but I am a detective. If I'm elected mayor, I'll be guaranteed to be safe from mafia attacks so I can publish my detective results daily, giving us a large boost. If you want, I can ask some easy questions confirming people's roles so they can back me up. The possibility of a Detective Mayor is something in the town's favor.

Also, if you don't vote for me now, mafia will target me first night and the town'll be down a detective without me even asking anything :[

note in his post for mayor he says he just woke up. now he's saying he had to reveal his role because he was going to sleep. perhaps just a minor mistake but it's a bit contradictory? worth noting perhaps?

Ah, good find; I probably just remembered that I would be unable to play for a long period of time - I had to leave for school, so I was away for about seven hours. In either case, my argument is the same. I just have a bad memory.