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Most impirtant thing is your sandroba mafia read. I am 100% blind sheeping you.
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On December 14 2023 18:09 marvellosity wrote:
I have doubts but I’m not thrilled with any other lynch either.
I’d rather you didn’t blind sheep me and told me your view on sand? I know you said you had no reason to scumread him, but is that all there is to it?
Yes. I have said this clearly all game.
I don't hold him to the same standards as you guys do.
I think I read a decent case which made it plausible that he is under performing. So in that aspect I can see it.
But I think DMB is performing worse than Sandroba (which doesn't make her more mafia)
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On December 14 2023 19:00 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 18:58 Koshi wrote:On December 14 2023 18:09 marvellosity wrote:
I have doubts but I’m not thrilled with any other lynch either.
I’d rather you didn’t blind sheep me and told me your view on sand? I know you said you had no reason to scumread him, but is that all there is to it? Yes. I have said this clearly all game. I don't hold him to the same standards as you guys do. I think I read a decent case which made it plausible that he is under performing. So in that aspect I can see it. But I think DMB is performing worse than Sandroba (which doesn't make her more mafia) All bs about your mafia game and town game aside, what’s your reason for a lack of drive today?
My hearth and head are in a calm place and I am happy with the way I am approaching this game.
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On December 14 2023 19:04 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 19:01 Koshi wrote:On December 14 2023 19:00 marvellosity wrote:On December 14 2023 18:58 Koshi wrote:On December 14 2023 18:09 marvellosity wrote:
I have doubts but I’m not thrilled with any other lynch either.
I’d rather you didn’t blind sheep me and told me your view on sand? I know you said you had no reason to scumread him, but is that all there is to it? Yes. I have said this clearly all game. I don't hold him to the same standards as you guys do. I think I read a decent case which made it plausible that he is under performing. So in that aspect I can see it. But I think DMB is performing worse than Sandroba (which doesn't make her more mafia) All bs about your mafia game and town game aside, what’s your reason for a lack of drive today? My hearth and head are in a calm place and I am happy with the way I am approaching this game. :/ But don’t you really want to lynch mafia…
I will not waste my vote and put it were I think it needs to be for town.
I was wrong yesterday. Completely.
Today I think DMB is mafia, I think her lists are ridiculous and the fact Palmar is mafia 5/6 times in upper lists makes me suspicious that DMB and Palmar are mafia.
I didn't think sandroba and Tfrel were mafia yesterday. I still don't see it for myself but I can sheeep you because your activity during night was more than enough to trust you.
I think rayn could be mafia but he is not a main suspect.
HF is town
Palmar is town for me but like I said. DMB made me doubt it slightly.
Slam is very town for me. But apparently the mason thing is randomed so I am not sure if that affected me. But I really like how he played so far. He is readable, even though I haven't really tried.
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Ugh. My hopes and dreams to be lynched are diminishing. Maybe I can be lucky and be the lylo lynch.
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On December 14 2023 19:11 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 19:09 Koshi wrote:On December 14 2023 19:04 marvellosity wrote:On December 14 2023 19:01 Koshi wrote:On December 14 2023 19:00 marvellosity wrote:On December 14 2023 18:58 Koshi wrote:On December 14 2023 18:09 marvellosity wrote:
I have doubts but I’m not thrilled with any other lynch either.
I’d rather you didn’t blind sheep me and told me your view on sand? I know you said you had no reason to scumread him, but is that all there is to it? Yes. I have said this clearly all game. I don't hold him to the same standards as you guys do. I think I read a decent case which made it plausible that he is under performing. So in that aspect I can see it. But I think DMB is performing worse than Sandroba (which doesn't make her more mafia) All bs about your mafia game and town game aside, what’s your reason for a lack of drive today? My hearth and head are in a calm place and I am happy with the way I am approaching this game. :/ But don’t you really want to lynch mafia… I will not waste my vote and put it were I think it needs to be for town. I was wrong yesterday. Completely. Today I think DMB is mafia, I think her lists are ridiculous and the fact Palmar is mafia 5/6 times in upper lists makes me suspicious that DMB and Palmar are mafia. I didn't think sandroba and Tfrel were mafia yesterday. I still don't see it for myself but I can sheeep you because your activity during night was more than enough to trust you. I think rayn could be mafia but he is not a main suspect. HF is townPalmar is town for me but like I said. DMB made me doubt it slightly. Slam is very town for me. But apparently the mason thing is randomed so I am not sure if that affected me. But I really like how he played so far. He is readable, even though I haven't really tried. Can you explain for me a little? I’m flicking through rayn’s filter in that game you linked. Turns out my memory of peoples play styles as mafia from 5+ years ago may have been fuzzed by time.
HF? I think he is chill and trying to solve the game. Not caring about how he is positioned in the thread but caring enough that his contribution are validated in the town. (with his "I am an asset" comment & wanting to be noticed by DMB & maybe even saying I hate him while I obviously don't but he wants to be "part" of town because he has no scumteam)
rayn? Dont know. It is a feeling that can be wrong. What is he really thinking atm? I am so uninterested about the HF thing. For the rest. I don't know. I said it before. To be really town to me, he needs to scratch an itch he didn't scratch yet.
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On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient. This post seems very wishy-washy, non-committal, and pointless. The first paragraph doesn't really say anything of substance (not that it's wrong per se, just doesn't really contribute anything meaningful to the game). The second paragraph is the same way. To me, he seems to end with exactly no read (and next to no thoughts) on Alakaslam. There's even "I like the poking about smiles, but it's phrased as a question so there is avoidance as well" which seems like aggressive-but-with-a-heavy-grain-of-salt that is easy to say without actually committing to it. "Posting within what I expected" and "not leaning one way or the other based on initial posts" doesn't end up meaning much at all. The other thing I want to note is all of the caveats and grain of salts and backtracking in sandroba's post. Not exactly sure how to phrase what I mean, but see here, in red: Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. He's shying away from saying something, like making a read and then backing off from it. Or giving a reason to doubt what he just said, or placing a limiter on it. For such a small post, it's riddled with it. To me, this comes across as trying to be non-committal and playing the "safe game" while making it look like you are saying things and trying to figure things out.
Tbh there really is no way that mafia does this to each other at the very start at the game.
So 1 of our wagons is town.
On December 10 2023 20:29 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 20:21 marvellosity wrote:On December 10 2023 20:18 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote:
If I came In the the thread first and had called out sandro’s post, I would think it was insane DP was calling me on it.
Just sayin. I think DarthPunk is focusing more on the way I brought up suspicion about sandroba's post rather than just that I did it, but I could be wrong? On December 10 2023 20:14 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 19:47 Trfel wrote:
I'm not expecting some huge commitment or 100% certain reads or anything like that. But I think it's reasonable to expect something of substance. Sandroba failed to provide that. I understand people wanting to share thoughts, even if they aren't sure about the conclusions, but at the same time it's a game of mafia where the conclusions about people's alignments is ultimately what matters. My point about sandroba isn't that he didn't have any strong conclusions, it's the amount of thoughts he shared without any conclusions whatsoever and the way that he seemingly undermined any conclusion he could have made with doubt and take-backsies or whatever you want to call it. I don't think that everything needs to progress the game necessarily, or have a distinct purpose, it's that sandroba's post is the type of post that should have a purpose but just doesn't.
What kind of substance are you expecting? he literally posted the 10th post of the game? If you go back to that quote I made with the red and take out the stuff in red then it would have had substantial conclusions. Yes, he is, but I don’t understand why you’d legitimise the attack on what, I would assume, would be your legit read on sandro’s post. Now I don’t like any of you :/ I mean I don't like that DarthPunk is disagreeing with me, I don't know if that makes him mafia though. Townies disagree about things fairly often. I can still stand by my view of sandroba and not be sure about DarthPunk, no?
Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 20:24 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 20:18 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote:
If I came In the the thread first and had called out sandro’s post, I would think it was insane DP was calling me on it.
Just sayin. I think DarthPunk is focusing more on the way I brought up suspicion about sandroba's post rather than just that I did it, but I could be wrong? On December 10 2023 20:14 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 19:47 Trfel wrote:
I'm not expecting some huge commitment or 100% certain reads or anything like that. But I think it's reasonable to expect something of substance. Sandroba failed to provide that. I understand people wanting to share thoughts, even if they aren't sure about the conclusions, but at the same time it's a game of mafia where the conclusions about people's alignments is ultimately what matters. My point about sandroba isn't that he didn't have any strong conclusions, it's the amount of thoughts he shared without any conclusions whatsoever and the way that he seemingly undermined any conclusion he could have made with doubt and take-backsies or whatever you want to call it. I don't think that everything needs to progress the game necessarily, or have a distinct purpose, it's that sandroba's post is the type of post that should have a purpose but just doesn't.
What kind of substance are you expecting? he literally posted the 10th post of the game? If you go back to that quote I made with the red and take out the stuff in red then it would have had substantial conclusions. How confident would you say you were of sandroba's alignment when you wrote that post? Of sandroba's alignment? Not very. His opening post felt very suspicious, but it's just one post. That could just be the way he thinks and communicates his thoughts. I'm very interested to see how he follows it up.
This is good imo. I don't know if that post is easy to make as mafia.
On December 10 2023 21:06 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 17:14 DarthPunk wrote:
The level 1 analysis of this is that a player is being aggressive early, not afraid to post and that would be good for Trfel. My initial feelings reading the post was that it felt forced, with a lot of generic statements to try and make Sandroba's post seeem worse than it was.
I disagree that at the point of the game in which we are right now, that everything said needs to progress the game in a meaningful way. Sure, I would like that to be the case, but I also don't think that someone being non-committal is alignment indicative, in fact, someone being strongly committed early tends to make me lean mafia more than town, Town are trying to figure shit out at the start and are more curious than committed. DarthPunk, care to explain this?
Consistently on sandroba
On December 10 2023 21:24 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 21:16 DarthPunk wrote:It just seems to me that you came roaring out of the gate with a huge case, based on some nitpicking really early in the thread, and you end up going nowhere on anything which is the essence of what the case you wrote on Sandro in the first place. Now fair enough, sandroba hasn't been around so you haven't been able to pursue things further. But your level of aggression just didn't really match with what was going on in the thread at the time, which you kind of acknowledge at the start of said post. On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient. It's almost like an apology, like what were you waiting for? And now you are kind of backtracking, which also doesn't match with the way you lead out originally. it's all quite jarring to me. I assume you are talking to me, I am having a bit of trouble understanding what you are actually getting at here though. Yes, I think sandroba is suspicious. No, I wouldn't wager high stakes on it. He's one of the people I'm most interested in (along with Alakaslam and perhaps yourself and an off-chance of Vivax), but I'm not certain yet. I posted the way I did to try and figure out sandroba's alignment (and eventually everyone else's). Just because I'm not very confident yet doesn't mean that I can't figure things out and investigate and that sort of thing. I didn't bring any aggression, that's just me trying to ask questions and figure things out. If there is anything you'd like me to clear up please don't hesitate to ask, I'm just having a bit of trouble understanding this post though, it feels a bit nebulous to me.
Good answer. 0 fear.
On December 10 2023 21:27 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 21:18 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 21:06 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 17:14 DarthPunk wrote:
The level 1 analysis of this is that a player is being aggressive early, not afraid to post and that would be good for Trfel. My initial feelings reading the post was that it felt forced, with a lot of generic statements to try and make Sandroba's post seeem worse than it was.
I disagree that at the point of the game in which we are right now, that everything said needs to progress the game in a meaningful way. Sure, I would like that to be the case, but I also don't think that someone being non-committal is alignment indicative, in fact, someone being strongly committed early tends to make me lean mafia more than town, Town are trying to figure shit out at the start and are more curious than committed. DarthPunk, care to explain this? What exactly do you want me to explain about it? You said that being aggressive early is good, right? I assume good meaning town-indicative, as opposed to mafia-indicative. So why then is someone being strongly committed a mafia trait? Does that mean that if someone is aggressive early but not committed then that indicates town? That doesn't make much sense to me, why would someone be aggressive without commitment, in fact how is that even possible?
same
On December 10 2023 21:28 Trfel wrote:Wait, what? I'm gonna need you to explain this one as well.
Here he start flipping onto DP
On December 10 2023 21:49 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 21:40 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 21:28 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:27 DarthPunk wrote:
ok. that's fine.
Unvote
Wait, what? I'm gonna need you to explain this one as well. I applied pressure, you held up well to the pressure, I am less inclined to lynch you now. So did you not think I was mafia?
On December 10 2023 21:59 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 21:51 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 21:49 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:40 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 21:28 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:27 DarthPunk wrote:
ok. that's fine.
Unvote
Wait, what? I'm gonna need you to explain this one as well. I applied pressure, you held up well to the pressure, I am less inclined to lynch you now. So did you not think I was mafia? I think you could be, but I am less inclined to try and lynch you right now because: 1.) you are active and engaged in the thread, and 2.) transparent about your thought processes and reasoning I see, that makes a little more sense. I was finding it suspicious that you seemed so sure of me being mafia (see here for example) and then call it a pressure and back off. Conveniently after people such as marvellosity and Vivax also show suspicion about sandroba's opening post and your push onto me didn't seem to get much support. It feels like you're giving up really easily, for being so certain, unless it was just a pressure, but it doesn't read like a pressure to me? Or maybe that's the point of the pressure. Regardless though, the timing feels rather convenient.
And after this he goes more after DP.
I just don't see all of this coming from mafia.
If you are God Mafia maybe.
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On December 11 2023 03:04 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 22:47 marvellosity wrote:On December 10 2023 21:24 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:16 DarthPunk wrote:It just seems to me that you came roaring out of the gate with a huge case, based on some nitpicking really early in the thread, and you end up going nowhere on anything which is the essence of what the case you wrote on Sandro in the first place. Now fair enough, sandroba hasn't been around so you haven't been able to pursue things further. But your level of aggression just didn't really match with what was going on in the thread at the time, which you kind of acknowledge at the start of said post. On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient. It's almost like an apology, like what were you waiting for? And now you are kind of backtracking, which also doesn't match with the way you lead out originally. it's all quite jarring to me. I assume you are talking to me, I am having a bit of trouble understanding what you are actually getting at here though. Yes, I think sandroba is suspicious. No, I wouldn't wager high stakes on it. He's one of the people I'm most interested in (along with Alakaslam and perhaps yourself and an off-chance of Vivax, but I'm not certain yet. I posted the way I did to try and figure out sandroba's alignment (and eventually everyone else's). Just because I'm not very confident yet doesn't mean that I can't figure things out and investigate and that sort of thing. I didn't bring any aggression, that's just me trying to ask questions and figure things out. If there is anything you'd like me to clear up please don't hesitate to ask, I'm just having a bit of trouble understanding this post though, it feels a bit nebulous to me. Wanna tell me about this, Trfel? Part of it is Vivax's first post ( here), which we discussed briefly. I didn't like how weak his questioning to sandroba feels, Vivax recognized the issues with sandroba's post but didn't seem to want to challenge sandroba over it or actually do anything with this knowledge. The other thing was that Vivax's posts didn't seem to have any order, he pulled quotes from seemingly random points in the thread. I can't follow the thought process that leads him to bring up the things he did, and especially not in that order. This isn't necessarily mafia indicative, it just feels weird and I'm not sure what to make of it yet. Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 02:48 Chezinu wrote:On December 10 2023 19:47 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 15:12 Chezinu wrote:On December 10 2023 11:36 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2023 10:55 Chezinu wrote:On December 10 2023 09:57 iamperfection wrote:On December 10 2023 06:11 Chezinu wrote:
Let me know if yall want me to role-play a character. your not role playing a character when you normally play ? A specific character Chezinu Izunizehc! Hey Guys! I'm Chezinu! Hi Chezinu, I'm Trfel! Hope you have been well these past few years. Hello Mr. Truffles!! I haven't eaten a truffle in a few years. However, I have embarked on a journey to the Citdal to understand the underworlings of the sentinels. I'm in deep. Deep within beyond the convulsional layers form by the kernels. I will try and send you photos of my findings. I eagerly await your report.
In all this DP fighting he then makes a good post about Vivax. I think he is with the firsts to notice Vivax.
On December 11 2023 04:35 Trfel wrote:
Vivax, curious if you have any thoughts on DarthPunk?
And again is consistent in poking his scumreads.
This is only page 2. But it is really good imo.
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On December 14 2023 19:35 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 19:33 Koshi wrote:On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient. This post seems very wishy-washy, non-committal, and pointless. The first paragraph doesn't really say anything of substance (not that it's wrong per se, just doesn't really contribute anything meaningful to the game). The second paragraph is the same way. To me, he seems to end with exactly no read (and next to no thoughts) on Alakaslam. There's even "I like the poking about smiles, but it's phrased as a question so there is avoidance as well" which seems like aggressive-but-with-a-heavy-grain-of-salt that is easy to say without actually committing to it. "Posting within what I expected" and "not leaning one way or the other based on initial posts" doesn't end up meaning much at all. The other thing I want to note is all of the caveats and grain of salts and backtracking in sandroba's post. Not exactly sure how to phrase what I mean, but see here, in red: On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. He's shying away from saying something, like making a read and then backing off from it. Or giving a reason to doubt what he just said, or placing a limiter on it. For such a small post, it's riddled with it. To me, this comes across as trying to be non-committal and playing the "safe game" while making it look like you are saying things and trying to figure things out. Tbh there really is no way that mafia does this to each other at the very start at the game. So 1 of our wagons is town. On December 10 2023 20:29 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 20:21 marvellosity wrote:On December 10 2023 20:18 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote:
If I came In the the thread first and had called out sandro’s post, I would think it was insane DP was calling me on it.
Just sayin. I think DarthPunk is focusing more on the way I brought up suspicion about sandroba's post rather than just that I did it, but I could be wrong? On December 10 2023 20:14 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 19:47 Trfel wrote:
I'm not expecting some huge commitment or 100% certain reads or anything like that. But I think it's reasonable to expect something of substance. Sandroba failed to provide that. I understand people wanting to share thoughts, even if they aren't sure about the conclusions, but at the same time it's a game of mafia where the conclusions about people's alignments is ultimately what matters. My point about sandroba isn't that he didn't have any strong conclusions, it's the amount of thoughts he shared without any conclusions whatsoever and the way that he seemingly undermined any conclusion he could have made with doubt and take-backsies or whatever you want to call it. I don't think that everything needs to progress the game necessarily, or have a distinct purpose, it's that sandroba's post is the type of post that should have a purpose but just doesn't.
What kind of substance are you expecting? he literally posted the 10th post of the game? If you go back to that quote I made with the red and take out the stuff in red then it would have had substantial conclusions. Yes, he is, but I don’t understand why you’d legitimise the attack on what, I would assume, would be your legit read on sandro’s post. Now I don’t like any of you :/ I mean I don't like that DarthPunk is disagreeing with me, I don't know if that makes him mafia though. Townies disagree about things fairly often. I can still stand by my view of sandroba and not be sure about DarthPunk, no?
On December 10 2023 20:24 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 20:18 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote:
If I came In the the thread first and had called out sandro’s post, I would think it was insane DP was calling me on it.
Just sayin. I think DarthPunk is focusing more on the way I brought up suspicion about sandroba's post rather than just that I did it, but I could be wrong? On December 10 2023 20:14 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 19:47 Trfel wrote:
I'm not expecting some huge commitment or 100% certain reads or anything like that. But I think it's reasonable to expect something of substance. Sandroba failed to provide that. I understand people wanting to share thoughts, even if they aren't sure about the conclusions, but at the same time it's a game of mafia where the conclusions about people's alignments is ultimately what matters. My point about sandroba isn't that he didn't have any strong conclusions, it's the amount of thoughts he shared without any conclusions whatsoever and the way that he seemingly undermined any conclusion he could have made with doubt and take-backsies or whatever you want to call it. I don't think that everything needs to progress the game necessarily, or have a distinct purpose, it's that sandroba's post is the type of post that should have a purpose but just doesn't.
What kind of substance are you expecting? he literally posted the 10th post of the game? If you go back to that quote I made with the red and take out the stuff in red then it would have had substantial conclusions. How confident would you say you were of sandroba's alignment when you wrote that post? Of sandroba's alignment? Not very. His opening post felt very suspicious, but it's just one post. That could just be the way he thinks and communicates his thoughts. I'm very interested to see how he follows it up. This is good imo. I don't know if that post is easy to make as mafia. On December 10 2023 21:06 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 17:14 DarthPunk wrote:
The level 1 analysis of this is that a player is being aggressive early, not afraid to post and that would be good for Trfel. My initial feelings reading the post was that it felt forced, with a lot of generic statements to try and make Sandroba's post seeem worse than it was.
I disagree that at the point of the game in which we are right now, that everything said needs to progress the game in a meaningful way. Sure, I would like that to be the case, but I also don't think that someone being non-committal is alignment indicative, in fact, someone being strongly committed early tends to make me lean mafia more than town, Town are trying to figure shit out at the start and are more curious than committed. DarthPunk, care to explain this? Consistently on sandroba On December 10 2023 21:24 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:16 DarthPunk wrote:It just seems to me that you came roaring out of the gate with a huge case, based on some nitpicking really early in the thread, and you end up going nowhere on anything which is the essence of what the case you wrote on Sandro in the first place. Now fair enough, sandroba hasn't been around so you haven't been able to pursue things further. But your level of aggression just didn't really match with what was going on in the thread at the time, which you kind of acknowledge at the start of said post. On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient. It's almost like an apology, like what were you waiting for? And now you are kind of backtracking, which also doesn't match with the way you lead out originally. it's all quite jarring to me. I assume you are talking to me, I am having a bit of trouble understanding what you are actually getting at here though. Yes, I think sandroba is suspicious. No, I wouldn't wager high stakes on it. He's one of the people I'm most interested in (along with Alakaslam and perhaps yourself and an off-chance of Vivax), but I'm not certain yet. I posted the way I did to try and figure out sandroba's alignment (and eventually everyone else's). Just because I'm not very confident yet doesn't mean that I can't figure things out and investigate and that sort of thing. I didn't bring any aggression, that's just me trying to ask questions and figure things out. If there is anything you'd like me to clear up please don't hesitate to ask, I'm just having a bit of trouble understanding this post though, it feels a bit nebulous to me. Good answer. 0 fear. On December 10 2023 21:27 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:18 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 21:06 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 17:14 DarthPunk wrote:
The level 1 analysis of this is that a player is being aggressive early, not afraid to post and that would be good for Trfel. My initial feelings reading the post was that it felt forced, with a lot of generic statements to try and make Sandroba's post seeem worse than it was.
I disagree that at the point of the game in which we are right now, that everything said needs to progress the game in a meaningful way. Sure, I would like that to be the case, but I also don't think that someone being non-committal is alignment indicative, in fact, someone being strongly committed early tends to make me lean mafia more than town, Town are trying to figure shit out at the start and are more curious than committed. DarthPunk, care to explain this? What exactly do you want me to explain about it? You said that being aggressive early is good, right? I assume good meaning town-indicative, as opposed to mafia-indicative. So why then is someone being strongly committed a mafia trait? Does that mean that if someone is aggressive early but not committed then that indicates town? That doesn't make much sense to me, why would someone be aggressive without commitment, in fact how is that even possible? same On December 10 2023 21:28 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:27 DarthPunk wrote:
ok. that's fine.
Unvote
Wait, what? I'm gonna need you to explain this one as well. Here he start flipping onto DP On December 10 2023 21:49 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:40 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 21:28 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:27 DarthPunk wrote:
ok. that's fine.
Unvote
Wait, what? I'm gonna need you to explain this one as well. I applied pressure, you held up well to the pressure, I am less inclined to lynch you now. So did you not think I was mafia? On December 10 2023 21:59 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:51 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 21:49 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:40 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 21:28 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:27 DarthPunk wrote:
ok. that's fine.
Unvote
Wait, what? I'm gonna need you to explain this one as well. I applied pressure, you held up well to the pressure, I am less inclined to lynch you now. So did you not think I was mafia? I think you could be, but I am less inclined to try and lynch you right now because: 1.) you are active and engaged in the thread, and 2.) transparent about your thought processes and reasoning I see, that makes a little more sense. I was finding it suspicious that you seemed so sure of me being mafia (see here for example) and then call it a pressure and back off. Conveniently after people such as marvellosity and Vivax also show suspicion about sandroba's opening post and your push onto me didn't seem to get much support. It feels like you're giving up really easily, for being so certain, unless it was just a pressure, but it doesn't read like a pressure to me? Or maybe that's the point of the pressure. Regardless though, the timing feels rather convenient. And after this he goes more after DP. I just don't see all of this coming from mafia. If you are God Mafia maybe. Follow up question Koshi Then why does (strong townplayer) sand think Trfel is mafia?
I shall read sandroba later. But even I waffled on tfrel. And some people are voting Tfrel.
So Sandroba is not alone.
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On December 14 2023 02:51 Holyflare wrote:Trfel+ Show Spoiler [posts] +
#72 - This is the beginning of when trfel didn't like sandro. I think the highlighted part of sandro's post is extremely waffley and bad so like that he's picking it out to pre-empt what he's about to say and get a response to it. ++ #74 - Sandro responds and to me, it looks like he should be town reading slam in #73 but somehow in his original conclusion he downplays the town read. Trfel picks up on this in this post and his next post ( #75), indicating that Sandro makes absolutely no read on slam whatsoever even though he writes a lot of lines about him so it's just kind of pointless. ++ There's a bunch of questions thrown out in the next few posts and at least he follows up a bit with sandro. Not sure I like that in #118 he just kinda fobs sandro's response off but I like that he expands what he's thinking to DP. Sandro's post is riddled with open-ended unsureness that didn't seem to have a purpose. I like even more that he tries to question Slam over Slam thinking that all the reactions were overblow and it could just be mafia/mafia theatre. I'm not sure I like that Slam post even (will investigate) but Trfel does a good job of trying to dig into someone that looks like they have a thought process incongruent with theirs. ++ #120 Oh, he basically says exactly what I said above and takes back the town read. Pretty good imo. ++ Same kinda vibe with questioning DP in #124Next few posts are just a bit of back and forth with marv interjecting and talking to DP about the sureity of his sandro read and it not being very sure. I think #136 the ending feels a bit robotic "I'm very interested to see how he follows it up" is just so generic. I also think #143 is also extremely generic in a way that the post is too formulaicly worded. Like he's just going through the motions of scum reading sandro and waiting for the next step of his programming to happen without interjecting real thoughts. -- Actually kind of like the highlighted bits being pointed out in #146, they don't really make any sense to me (DP saying that mafia likes to take strong commitments early ???). I actually hate DP in these interactions lol, good thing I didn't pay enough attention to them. ++ trfel The next few posts in #156, #157, #159 are all good responses to DP making wtf accusations and then a weird unvote. I like that Trfel wanted it followed up. Gonna stop linking to posts now, cba. #167 is a good question to vivax. Not sure exactly what vivax was going to achieve with his sandro question and it shows trfel is still interested in interactions in and around sandro. #169 is basically a scum read on DP without actually saying as much. I'm not sure why he stops short of outright calling DP mafia. Don't really like it. I guess you could say he doesn't really make a conclusion on sandro too although you could argue that's just a feeler content creation case with more poignant accusations. Don't like this post regardless --- #257 Quite like the initial points on Vivax that trfel talks about but the second half of it seems like something extra tacked on for no reason. If he doesn't know what to make of the order or if it's alignment indicative why does it matter? Feels like adding words for the sake of it and a bit hypocritical in the same respect as his accusation to sandro earlier. -- #262 Think sandro mentioned this in one of his recent posts but I also don't like that he callously threw out the vivax suspicion beforehand, found out it wasn't actually true and then still used it to almost double down on ANOTHER meaningless reason to not like what vivax said. Vivax could have quite easily caught up by skimming and then gone back to poke at questions so seems pretty mediocre. --- As a caveat to the above, in this post above he mentions that he doesn't like that DP has fallen off after the questioning of him (doesn't bring back up the other DP points he disliked before, at least not yet. Just kinda outs it which is fine imo. Don't hate it.) + He makes some throwaway question to me asking why I think rayn is mafia, has some follow up with rayn about vivax's posts again in #272 as if that line of thought even means something anymore. Meh. At least he acknowledges that in the same post and is just more concerned with Vivax's lack of involvement. #287 Points out that I agree with what Vivax is saying (has a overarching view of most of Vivax's posts/stances). Will await to see the conclusion to what I say before questioning whether this is a good post or not because I'd be extra curious about what I said, given my answer was something crap like "I forgot". #328 tries to get vivax (a scum read) to comment on DP (presumably a scum read but kind of unsaid). Good follow up I guess, shows thinking about the game at least, even if an easy post. + #335 A correct take but not sure I understand why he's more concerned about my "overall picture of play" when I've made like 2 posts. Here is where he mentions that DP is probably asleep and wants my thoughts too. Mmmm. Questionable post imo. -- #388 No reads list but Vivax/DP/Koshi (first mention)/Sandro are in his suspect list. Not sure where Koshi came from or how. fuck me I'm bored of investing myself into playing this game it's tedious af, just gonna summarise the rest
lot more back and forth with DP about really silly nitpicking points imo. I don't think trfel's points are that bad that DP fell off after the push on him and did not much (will double check between when DP stopped pushing and went to bed to clarify). I also don't think his point about the marv push was that bad either. Koshi read is phoning it in but fine. Shared sentiment. #428 is a bad post (the one talking about DP sleeping with no other push in the thread). ------ his posts about DP calling sandro basically town are correct and DP's arguments are pretty bad faith voting for vivax is consistent and I don't think #666 is that bad given his posts previously, it's pretty much just a summary of what he's been saying, not a hipster new read thing I also kinda liked that he stopped interacting with the DP scum read, the frustration seemed real and I dunno if he'd be that frustrated as mafia? Although would he perhaps be more accusatory if he was town and thought DP was mafia and then go after him more? Maybe he's getting frustrated because he's being misrepresented and can't really fight back properly as mafia? One to think about more. #805 is a whatever defence of marv. Perhaps unwarranted and feels a bit like his defence of me for little reason. #815 possibly like this post #823 does mafia trfel really make this post to a town vivax if he knows this to be true? I'm not so sure he actually does. tl;dr 1) I think Trfel's opening posts on sandro are decent but the suspicion drops off the face of the earth. I don't like that. 2) His argument with DP is extra pointless from DP's side. I don't think the arguments that Trfel presents calling out DP are that bad other than the sleeping thing obviously which is a bit shit but not specifically what he meant. I need to check the timeline here for when DP stopped pushing Trfel and then went to bed because if it's straight away then Trfel's points are bad. If DP stays in the thread a bit aimlessly doing nothing then Trfel's points hold a lot more merit. 3) I think his Vivax suspicion is fine but he throws in a lot of extrenuous details into it that are basically meaningless and he eventually admits that. He defaults to the same kind of argument that he thinks DP is being mafia for (no thread presence or drive) which is an ok read. I actually liked his initial questioning of Vivax over his questions to Sandroba. It shows that he was interested in people interacting with his original scum read. 4) He kind of throws out some free town reads (or at least pressure appeasing reads) on me and marv out of the blue which I feel like I've seen him do before in a previous game, or at least it tickles my brain saying I have somewhere but I can't really get a feel for why he does it. Just seems out of the blue. 5) His argument with DP I think he was mostly correct on and DP was arguing in bad faith. He gets very frustrated with being misrepresented but it doesn't seem like he cares to go the extra step to call DP mafia here or campaign for him. Instead, he leaves and comes back and decides to ignore DP to stop the back and forth (which is fine) but I think he'd be more vocal about suspicions here on his return. 6) I really think that #823 is a post a mafia trfel probably doesn't make to a vivax that he knows is town? 7) I get the overall impression that Trfel is kinda sticking to scum reads and hasn't had much evolution of them? They seem a bit static, even if it appears he's questioning them.
I dunno lol, could genuinely see him being town or mafia. I'd be more inclined to call him town, although I'm fully ready to be burnt by that position. Feel like I've wasted my precious time playing this game now.
I skimmed this a bit too hard. But yeah. Imo if you are voting Tfrel you are setting up a second town wagon or he is the counterwagon.
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Oh and Tfrel has 4 votes and sandroba 3.
That is just bad.
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On December 14 2023 19:45 Holyflare wrote:
I will never accept anyone as a player that lets chez get away with surviving if it comes down to that at end game btw. I am like 99% sure he's mafia and we don't have a way to deal with it.
Would rather lynch someone that gives us information today obv but do not wifom yourself out of letting him live if you need to make that decision later in the game.
Well. Your link from Chez breaking character to help Sandroba is pretty damning if Sandroba flips red.
Should bring in some pressure.
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On December 14 2023 23:54 Holyflare wrote:
Did you know that you palmar haters could have the leading wagon now but instead you just whine about it and don't actually campaign properly for the wagons you want?
tis true lol
dmb slam sandroba
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Slam why don't you want to lynch Sandroba?
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On December 13 2023 10:44 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 10:03 DarthPunk wrote:
Slam reads please.
And sandro.
You should both be here. Ok Town (not ordered) DP Rayn Marv Dmb Town lean Holyflare Mafia Trfel Sandroba ??? Rest unknown stance
On December 13 2023 10:45 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 10:38 DarthPunk wrote:On December 13 2023 10:32 Alakaslam wrote:On December 13 2023 07:51 DarthPunk wrote:On December 13 2023 01:47 marvellosity wrote:
Finding it hard to envisage 3 mafia outside of sandro though. Unless it’s both Slam and Chez which would just make this game really, really irritating. FWIW I think chez would be more engaged if slam was on his team. Does a student so easily motivate his teacher? You can't drop off so hard from your day one play slam. Surely you have an opinion on chez. Likely busy. Possible mafia. His work schedule is mine on steroids.
So your mafia reads are sandroba, Palmar, Chez and Tfrel?
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@Slam:
On December 12 2023 02:37 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 05:27 Chezinu wrote:On December 11 2023 05:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 05:07 sandroba wrote:
I understand your point about feigning certainty as a strategy but fail to see how that makes me suspicious still. Are you saying that although my post had good observations and moved the game in a pro-town manner because I didn't do it like you would have done it is suspicious? Not sure I buy that completely from your perspective.
Definitely not something to hinge a whole narrative on and derive reads from. Especially when your own post is full of tentative language and demonstrations of uncertainty regarding palmar's posts. I think you should start raising suspicions, or at least having reads, in case you're town, but then again i don't know if i need to tell you this. People suspect you, if you're town, get over it, stop defending and start producing something of substance (because people suspect you as you don't produce anything of substance -- right or wrong) If you need help sandroba, you can read my posts to learn how to have people not think you post nothing of substance. + Show Spoiler + Noting this post because it's the first one where Chez breaks character and it's rayn talking about Sandroba doing nothing and deflecting.
What do you make of this point HF made? Is it something mafia Chez would do?
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Damn. I am all up for that tbh.
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Marv should we switch? There is no way this is mafia slam and sandroba doing this right?
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EPT
