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The point is, it's just what I do currently. Place a naked vote, see who reacts or doesn't, drop a case and gather more info. It's a good springboard. Ended a bit shit here because I was low investment and clearly missed some irrelevant question that didn't have any relevance to the points I was making.
It's a waste of your time and everyone else's to continue this avenue to push.
On December 13 2023 00:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 00:08 Holyflare wrote:
Sandro => Chez => Trfel => You => DP => DMB Is marv town because sandroba is mafia, or? What happens if sandroba magically flips town?
No, marv is low investment but high co-opperativeness. I don't think he's pushing down routes that are inherently bad and, sure, given I think Sandro is mafia he's a bit up there because of it but it's the things that he wouldn't have to do as mafia that he's doing here that make him seem better to me. Trying to get you to explain your posts about me better, trying to get me to explain the posts about sandro more. Collaboration is the key to success.
It's not a strong point and perhaps marv might be in place of DMB but I haven't done much reading of DMB other than skimming the night. Definitely think he's above sandro, chez, trfel and probably you at the very least.
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DP is there as a pocket mafia read because I think he flits between things way too quickly and he's too agreeable at finding things scummy and not enough at clearing people. I think he's more likely to be townie given the current circumstances but I wouldn't let him slide on that alone.
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On December 13 2023 00:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 00:35 Holyflare wrote:
No, marv is low investment but high co-opperativeness. I don't think he's pushing down routes that are inherently bad and, sure, given I think Sandro is mafia he's a bit up there because of it but it's the things that he wouldn't have to do as mafia that he's doing here that make him seem better to me. Trying to get you to explain your posts about me better, trying to get me to explain the posts about sandro more. Collaboration is the key to success.
It's not a strong point and perhaps marv might be in place of DMB but I haven't done much reading of DMB other than skimming the night. Definitely think he's above sandro, chez, trfel and probably you at the very least. On page 36 you had marv on your mafia list for quite the opposite reasons. what has changed?
??
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On December 13 2023 00:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Or are you saying marv's actions after the lynch are some super townie things that make him more town?
Given the fact that I listed several things after that original post and that his collaboration has undeniably become larger over the course of the game AND he was trying to divert to someone I think is mafia, then yes, they are townie actions that lead to me town reading him more.
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On December 13 2023 01:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Should i work or is anyone here around to talk?
feed the corporate machine
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would love sandro to be town but I don't think it's the case
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I don't think a mafia slam outs it in the same way though possibly? Not sure what a mafia slam would do tbh but I remember thinking it was a townie way to out it at least.
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On December 13 2023 07:57 DarthPunk wrote:
Vig not big
I already said I'm shooting sandro and I'm hard claiming this now.
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why do people make their town games shit so their mafia games are better
just play better as both
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On December 13 2023 18:08 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 00:08 Holyflare wrote:On December 12 2023 23:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Like he himself appeared to be suspicious of sandroba at that point, but for some reason he votes for me when my post that is most solving in the game is questioning the player he is suspicious of. Your question was bad. Even if I had read it, acknowledged it and mentioned it I still would have given the same reasons to vote for you. You didn't seem to care about any of it and you were just giving reads I didn't think you would give. It's that simple. Get over it. If you want 2 names, I've given sandro and chez (and highlighted a post where chez breaks character that you should look at) but I can't really give you more than that other than I'm going to investigate trfel when I have some free time. I think you look better purely from Sandro's filter. I think dmb, marv, possibly dp, slam all look better from their actions in the night surrounding the vivax lynch. I think Koshi is a bit misguided but I don't think it's in a bad way, he's actively trying to shut down avenues for wagons. Although his last one he tried to shut down was sandroba which I probably need to get in to but I don't think it was done in an agenda-y way. He also raised the point (and was seemingly the only one to acknowledge at the time) my point about chezinu, which seems like good stuff. Palmar is similar to koshi imo. I don't think his agenda has been malicious and I don't think he's pushing things to get the thread to go after mafia. Starting to highlight me for lack of activity is the proper play here as a townie and I think it's more than just going through the motions in that regard. If I had to make an order it would be: Sandro => Chez => Trfel => You => DP => DMB How did DMB look better in the night before the lynch? She was not a prominent figure there.
I have no idea who DMB is or how they play so I only have this game to go on. There's a bunch of associative speculation that they probably weren't bussing sandro and if I had to look more specifically at just their play there's some good posts distrusting Palmar's reasoning for voting vivax and calling him out that I liked. Also defending vivax:
On December 12 2023 11:39 die_meatbaby wrote:
Fuck i don´t have a good feeling on lynch V right now. This looks so Townie just trying to not get killed. Fells like impulsive posts from emotions to keep playing.
when the votes weren't even close to saving him
On December 12 2023 11:17 Grackaroni wrote:
Day One Vote Count
Vivax (9): Palmar, DarthPunk, die_meatbaby, Trfel, sandroba, Holyflare, Alakaslam, Koshi, sandroba, DarthPunk, Chezinu
sandroba (2): Vivax, marvellosity, Vivax
Holyflare (1): raynpelikoneet
marvellosity (0): Koshi, DarthPunk, sandroba
Palmar (0): Vivax
Koshi (0): Holyflare, DarthPunk
raynpelikoneet (0): Holyflare, Vivax
Trfel (0): DarthPunk, DarthPunk, Alakaslam, DarthPunk
With 9 votes, Vivax is currently set to be lynched!
The deadline is Tuesday, Dec 12 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in
Not sure if they were the first to say this I can't remember but it certainly started off the train of moving votes and people being more open to swap. You could argue that Vivax was starting to become quite obvious at that point but I think DMB could just shut up if that were the case and sandro was mafia.
This is also partly why I think sandro is just mafia too. There's a whole counter wagon on them that spawned to save a townie and they have put 0 thought into it or said anything about it afaik.
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I'll try harder today so you don't have to think about me. At least I speculatively want to at least lol.
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On December 13 2023 19:18 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 07:28 sandroba wrote:On December 11 2023 05:06 Holyflare wrote:On December 11 2023 04:49 Trfel wrote:On December 11 2023 04:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am gonna take a little break. My feet have been cold for like 3 days because of shitty socks, and i just want to go to sauna now that i can. Will be back in an hour.
If anyone would like to have an opinion on Holyflare, and especially on what i said on him, i would appreciate. To be honest I think you are nitpicking a bit. Even if we say you are right and Holyflare isn't, I'm not sure what that demonstrates. It means he messed up in reading the thread maybe, I don't think it makes him mafia. I think that the overall picture of Holyflare's play is much more important.Holyflare, thoughts on DarthPunk? I get that it's night in Australia but he still feels a bit off to me. I don't like his attack on you and I think Palmar perhaps persuaded him off from tunelling you further but he tried to play it off like he came up with that idea himself to appear like he was being reasonable and then said you could be mafia anyway. He also said you weren't inquisitive about finding out information from people, while literally trying to take up all of your time with little questions thus giving you not much time to do that.I don't know what to think of that though because I'm historically bad at reading DP. Not sure I could make a gut read on it but somewhere middle of the pack, possibility of being townie but not outright surprised if mafia. See what he does next given time. Have you made a list post summing up what your current reads are? This exchange feels a bit off to me. The Trfel soft defense of HF, throwing the question to HF about DP and HF's response all sound a bit forced to me. It just looks like they give each other an undue amount of charitability. This feels like mafia on mafia to me. Can town give their thoughts on this post please?
Biased but it feels a bit like TMI to me rather than mafia on mafia. You can see the wording. "messed up in reading the thread maybe" and "I don't think it makes him mafia" are key words that people use to defend people when they know their actions are honest rather than phrasing mafia makes to defend a partner who fucked up something.
And it felt a bit like sandro was setting me up to look bad if trfel does flip mafia because I don't think there's a lot of thought here.
I don't understand how he reaches the point where I sound a bit forced and offer charitability when it should be quite simple to see where I'm coming from here at least. If I agreed with Trfel's attack on Sandroba and I didn't like DP's tunnel of Trfel, what other response would Sandroba be expecting here from a town me?
I also think it completely ignores the Palmar point, which I think was a big factor for the rest of that paragraph. I can elaborate on that more but it seemed apparent to me that (going off memory here so hazy) that Palmar either called out DP on his Trfel push or said trfel was looking better or something and DP backed off and tried to play that off as his own original thought imo. Well, at least it seemed like that at the time. Not sure why I should be less charitable to someone defending me and asking me a question.
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On December 12 2023 07:23 sandroba wrote:
I feel like rayn, you and koshi are town.
Lean town on slam, palmar (move to town if vivax is scum)
Neutral on hf, chezinu, dmb
I lean scum on vivax, marv, conflicted on trfel.
This is pre sandro re-read. I don't think anything on this list changed at all other than somehow adding even more people to it.
@Sandroba what is your list now?
You also posted:
On December 13 2023 07:37 sandroba wrote:
As much as I mirrored Koshi's reads in the beginning, he has been skirting by while not doing much of anything.
We all know for a fact that yesterday lynch was on a townie and the other viable option (me) I know was town too. Mafia had no reason to stick out their necks and do something to sway the lynch.
That makes it more likely that mafia is hiding in the likes of Koshi and Chezinu.
Chezinu's presence and engagement in particular has been a lot lower than other times I played with him and he was town. Normally he will try to interact with people and make weird accusation posts trying to get his point across.
Does the deadline time not factor in to this read? I don't see how you go from loving koshi enough to have him as a town read to it simply being eroded by 1 night. If you agreed with his vivax read and he's one of the OG people to have that read then how do you justify this?
On December 13 2023 07:42 sandroba wrote:
dmb also looks bad
I don't like this. Your mafia list is now over half the game and you aren't trying to clear town reads. Nobody new got added to your town read list and instead your mafia list just grew here:
On December 13 2023 11:56 sandroba wrote:
I think mafia is within HF Trfel Chez Marv Koshi DMB. Would leave the last 3 for last maybe?
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oh I didn't know any of this lol
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On December 13 2023 22:38 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 22:19 marvellosity wrote:
So I've gone back and re-read sandro, specifically looking for what he has said about Trfel. This is the progression.
1. He is "98% sure" that the DP & Trfel fight is TvT.
2. Trfel is trying to figure out the game, and his post casting suspicion on Vivax is "spot on".
3. Trfel he had been "leaning town" on "but this post really set off some alarms for me" - this is the Trfel vote post on Vivax.
4. He says to me "I quoted a post [from Trfel] I would 100% expect you to agree on and find suspicious" - the problem is he couldn't elaborate on how this was - he stated the tone felt different from the rest of the filter - which I don't agree with - which is why I asked how he might imagine a town Trfel might have written the post, which he could not answer.
5. He then submissively backs down on this point saying he could be just bad (this feels out of sandro's character)
6. Now he is "conflicted on Trfel"
7. sandro does a big catch-up post on DP, Trfel, me etc. In it he says he agrees with DP that Trfel was "going on the counter offensive" to make his post look a lot worse, and if he knew what type of player Trfel was, he would find it "an ironclad case [on Trfel]"
Basically I don't find any of this natural. While it was happening, he considered DP vs Trfel 98% TvT, but on re-read DP's case on Trfel looks "ironclad"?
I can't see this whole thing coming from a town sandro, I just can't This is stupid, why would I do this as mafia? Why not just keep my town read on Trfel at that point and just focus on Vivax?
To erode your reads and keep options open. Please answer my questions wherever they are. Why aren't you adding town reads to your list? Why aren't you seeing who had good reasons to vote vivax or not? Why aren't you second guessing that your koshi read erosion is just due to timezones vs throwing it completely out the window when you already have like 5+ other scum reads?
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Not sure I understand why you're tripling down on calling marv mafia when he's going through your filter multiple times, trying to come up with arguments and engage with you and even then still giving the benefit of the doubt for other people to interject and correct him. Is that mafia M.O.?
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On December 13 2023 23:14 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 23:06 Holyflare wrote:
Not sure I understand why you're tripling down on calling marv mafia when he's going through your filter multiple times, trying to come up with arguments and engage with you and even then still giving the benefit of the doubt for other people to interject and correct him. Is that mafia M.O.? HF is just trying to bury me throwing some shade in every single post I make mafia. "Not sure why you do this", "not sure why you do that"
You can feel free to replace not sure with "I am sure" to get my actual perspective.
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Let me spell it out incredibly clearly. I think you're mafia, I think you have floundered trying to come up with town reads because there have been people that are posting good townie thoughts and you can't come up with concrete reasons to actually scum read them so you've just re-hashed the beginning of the game again and squirrelled away not trying to give any good perspective on current events or anything useful. You've boxed yourself out and aren't actually answering any questions because you don't want to give too many things away when you actually flip mafia.
Even now I'm asking you relevant questions because you're not doing things you should be if you are a townie and you're just throwing things back in my face in an attempt to throw a tantrum and derail progress because the fact is you can't coherently reply to the accusations or give proper answers because there is no good explanation for what you're doing.
You can very very easily give more insight into the end of day shenanigans and see the perspectives of people at the time and give us insight into who looks like mafia trying to afk or which of the people joining you and trying to save vivax were doing so in good faith or bad faith and then drawing conclusions from that but you instead just pick out things that aren't relevant like some trfel interaction with me (and again, you haven't acknowledged or given an insight into my reply to this accusation).
You're not doing things a townie would do in your situation. You're complaining, you're calling people that are clearly just trying to solve the game mafia and relying aren't actually trying to divert things in a meaningful way. Who are you trying to lynch right now? God knows. Just whining that marv is mafia and that I'm mafia and asking about some irrelevant vig claim.
##vote sandroba
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Think you should mason sandro
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On December 13 2023 23:28 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 23:22 Holyflare wrote:
Let me spell it out incredibly clearly. I think you're mafia, I think you have floundered trying to come up with town reads because there have been people that are posting good townie thoughts and you can't come up with concrete reasons to actually scum read them so you've just re-hashed the beginning of the game again and squirrelled away not trying to give any good perspective on current events or anything useful. You've boxed yourself out and aren't actually answering any questions because you don't want to give too many things away when you actually flip mafia.
Even now I'm asking you relevant questions because you're not doing things you should be if you are a townie and you're just throwing things back in my face in an attempt to throw a tantrum and derail progress because the fact is you can't coherently reply to the accusations or give proper answers because there is no good explanation for what you're doing.
You can very very easily give more insight into the end of day shenanigans and see the perspectives of people at the time and give us insight into who looks like mafia trying to afk or which of the people joining you and trying to save vivax were doing so in good faith or bad faith and then drawing conclusions from that but you instead just pick out things that aren't relevant like some trfel interaction with me (and again, you haven't acknowledged or given an insight into my reply to this accusation).
You're not doing things a townie would do in your situation. You're complaining, you're calling people that are clearly just trying to solve the game mafia and relying aren't actually trying to divert things in a meaningful way. Who are you trying to lynch right now? God knows. Just whining that marv is mafia and that I'm mafia and asking about some irrelevant vig claim.
##vote sandroba I'm trying to solve the game, your alignment and marv's is in question for me. I made it very clear I want to lynch Trfel. I'm doing what I'm doing and not what you want me to do. You could very easily be doing a ton of other things as well, and so could all the other people in the thread. Again you are not trying to figure out my alignment, you just want to bury me
If you want to expose that I'm mafia, you can begin by answering my questions or actually interacting with what I replied about your trfel/hf interaction accusation. You're not doing this. So do it and quit talking about how I'm burying you. Being buried is self-inflicted.
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EPT
