EPTOn December 12 2023 18:51 marvellosity wrote:
Also sandro’s waffling on Trfel is REALLY WEIRD
Also sandro’s waffling on Trfel is REALLY WEIRD
I think Sandro inorganically arrived at a trfel town read and I'm not quite sure how it happened tbh.
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Holyflare
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I think Sandro inorganically arrived at a trfel town read and I'm not quite sure how it happened tbh. | ||
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Holyflare
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Holyflare
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On December 12 2023 02:37 Holyflare wrote: Noting this post because it's the first one where Chez breaks character and it's rayn talking about Sandroba doing nothing and deflecting. Still valid. | ||
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Holyflare
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On December 11 2023 04:34 sandroba wrote: I think this is a towny observation from rayn, no way dp would take such a one-sided approach favoring a partner in the exchange between me and trfel. but I still feel extremely off about the people he is mentioning that aren't rayn On December 11 2023 05:11 sandroba wrote: That's not a defense of me, as I could be mafia and DP town in this scenario. The fact that rayn's brain read that exchange and thought "No way 2 mafia would do that as partners" I think demonstrates a towny trying to solve the game. The follow up kind of confirms the rayn thing and I still just ?????? that he decided to take the scenario where he is mafia to use as an explanation | ||
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Holyflare
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Rayn's point was that DP and Sandroba probably weren't mafia together so how does "favour a partner" apply to this? Is it that he thought trfel was mafia at this point? That rayn thought trfel was mafia? Either a slip or not something I think sandro would say about an actual mafia partner (trfel). | ||
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Holyflare
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He says that rayn's point is good thinking because it shows that he's thinking about mafia partner interactions, but removing DP from being mafia in this equation (remember, rayn specifically only mentioned sandro and DP) doesn't make any sense. | ||
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Holyflare
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On December 12 2023 02:47 sandroba wrote: I quoted a post I would 100% expect you to agree on and find it suspicious. Nobody else had mentioned that post and I was expecting you to have some commentary, but instead you just dismissed it and asked me something irrelevant like what I think Trfle would post like if he was a towny voting. I dunno, like something I read and don't think sounds forced? I'm not comparing it to an imaginary trfel post, just reading it along with his filter and feeling it's off. Not sure why you would ask me to imagine a townie post instead of reflecting on the actual post itself. Such a fire post, maybe one I'd be inclined to town read sandro on. Annoyingly followed up by a self-critical backing off. Maybe wary that a town marv could snap back at any second? On December 12 2023 02:57 sandroba wrote: Or maybe I just suck while thinking I'm onto something and expecting you feel the same but actually you are just right and good while I'm bad? A harder pill to swallow but I guess could be true | ||
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Holyflare
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On December 12 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote: Can you actually explain this Trfel partner slip thing to me like I’m 5? With quotes if possible? I did originally write a whole wall when I was engaging sandro about all the possibilities but I felt confused myself about all the different scenarios so bear with me. | ||
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Holyflare
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 11 2023 04:34 sandroba wrote: I think this is a towny observation from rayn, no way dp would take such a one-sided approach favoring a partner in the exchange between me and trfel. I didn't want to give him the benefit of the doubt about this because it's so ambiguously worded there are several interpretations that you can read into. Now that I read it back, I think he probably meant that Rayn's point is good because there's no way a mafia DP would hard defend a mafia Sandroba like that by hard tunnelling trfel (presumably a townie) so there's less credence to it being a slip here and I've read too much into it. The point is really bad because mafia can quite easily do something like that, especially DP because that's his forte, but I think it probably paints rayn and DP in a good light still. Especially with the follow up where sandro says he could be mafia and dp can be town in this scenario (???) + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2023 05:11 sandroba wrote: That's not a defense of me, as I could be mafia and DP town in this scenario. The fact that rayn's brain read that exchange and thought "No way 2 mafia would do that as partners" I think demonstrates a towny trying to solve the game. | ||
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Holyflare
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1) No way DP would favour his mafia partner Trfel in this scenario over me! 2) No way DP would favour his mafia partner me in this scenario by attacking a townie trfel so hard! 3) No way DP would favour his mafia partner me in this scenario by attacking mafia partner trfel so hard! 2 and 3 being slips and 1 being some egregious attempt at trying to get town credit from rayn's thought process how he defaulted to: 4) No way town DP would tunnel unknown trfel over mafia me! as a way to justify this situation I'll never know. It prescribes way too much intent into what DP could or would do as mafia and sandro seems annoyed that I did that to him earlier so I feel like he wouldn't so much do that to DP this erroneously either. At some point I think I'm just having a conversation with myself in these posts but I guess if sandro is mafia I've just reachef the conclusion that it doesn't mean anything for trfel or DP based on these posts but looks good for rayn in general potentially. | ||
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Holyflare
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On December 12 2023 20:49 marvellosity wrote: Honestly for me its a bit of a wash as I don’t think that’s what makes sandro mafia (or town) Not so much as a slip as outright calling himself mafia but more a lapse in thought process where you forget you're supposed to be pretending you're town so go out and justify other people's reasoning as being good by forgetting what your alignment is supposed to be. I agree, there's much better points to go for. I think he has had no conclusive push this game. His scum reads and middling reads are really bad and lazy. Somehow I went from being a potential mafia read to neutral despite me basically posting nothing since he called me suspicious. I don't believe his vivax or trfel progressions and I don't think he would be this meek as a town that thought he caught a mafia marv. Especially so given that he shares that sentiment with Palmar and it would be an easy avenue to bolster Palmar's ego for. Somehow trfel drops to one of his top 3 scum reads because of one post that "really sets off alarms" On December 12 2023 00:19 sandroba wrote: Trfel I had been leaning town from the burst of engagement, but this post really set off some alarms for me. Vivax mentioned that he was weary from the bottom feeders on his wagon, and if I was town Vivax I would definitely be all over this post in particular. The wording, tone and reasoning on this post don't seem to match the rest of his filter. Seems like a formal way to justify a vote, looks like it's fabricated and a chore. but sandroba scum reads vivax too so it's a weird avenue of thought to go down I do agree with sandro though (potential for a bus situation) that the trfel post in particular is really lazy and just phoning it in so maybe need to look at trfel a bit more | ||
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Holyflare
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On December 12 2023 20:56 DarthPunk wrote: The reason its a slip is because he shouldn't really be drawing a conclusion about my alignment from that post from rayn. The natural thought is "well I know I am town so therefore rayn is correct, we can't be mafia together." The fact that he says that rayn is right and I am town based on that Idea is fucking weird. I don't think he draws a conclusion on your alignment tbh, just one on rayn's thought process that it doesn't matter if you are town or mafia, he just thinks that rayn makes a good conclusion that you aren't paired. Not necessarily that either or both are mafia. | ||
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Holyflare
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On December 12 2023 22:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have honestly no idea how marv thinks HF is town at this point of the game. Because he interacts with me and wants to know my thought process instead of trying to find out if an obscure timestamp error occurred | ||
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On December 12 2023 23:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like he himself appeared to be suspicious of sandroba at that point, but for some reason he votes for me when my post that is most solving in the game is questioning the player he is suspicious of. Your question was bad. Even if I had read it, acknowledged it and mentioned it I still would have given the same reasons to vote for you. You didn't seem to care about any of it and you were just giving reads I didn't think you would give. It's that simple. Get over it. If you want 2 names, I've given sandro and chez (and highlighted a post where chez breaks character that you should look at) but I can't really give you more than that other than I'm going to investigate trfel when I have some free time. I think you look better purely from Sandro's filter. I think dmb, marv, possibly dp, slam all look better from their actions in the night surrounding the vivax lynch. I think Koshi is a bit misguided but I don't think it's in a bad way, he's actively trying to shut down avenues for wagons. Although his last one he tried to shut down was sandroba which I probably need to get in to but I don't think it was done in an agenda-y way. He also raised the point (and was seemingly the only one to acknowledge at the time) my point about chezinu, which seems like good stuff. Palmar is similar to koshi imo. I don't think his agenda has been malicious and I don't think he's pushing things to get the thread to go after mafia. Starting to highlight me for lack of activity is the proper play here as a townie and I think it's more than just going through the motions in that regard. If I had to make an order it would be: Sandro => Chez => Trfel => You => DP => DMB | ||
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On December 13 2023 00:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: because you voted. if you just called me mafia i would be okay with your explanation tbh. but you voted for me to get lynched. Can you point me to a recent town game where I have not put a naked vote on someone and then followed it up in the way that I did here? Guarantee you can't. | ||
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The stuff he said is also okay. It's not that i even think Vivax is mafia, probably opposite tbh, but his read on Palmar is based on wrong premises imo, if Palmar and sandroba would be both mafia, that would definitely not be something Palmar does in my opinion.
