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On December 19 2023 01:46 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 01:36 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:14 sandroba wrote:On December 17 2023 09:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 17 2023 09:42 Palmar wrote:On December 17 2023 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 17 2023 09:36 Palmar wrote:
Yeah, your reads are based more on voting and actions and less on feel, tone and intuition, but the results are the same.
So we just lynch HF? I dont wanna do that right now because he was the only person being reasonable with me last night (lol) when noone else was. I can do whatever i want tomorrow. Do you have a case on him? I know my case is considered irrelevant for everyone else in the game already. As I said, I don't really. The points I have against him right now are: 1) He did very little early in the game. He was at the bottom of my "people who did shit on day 1" list outside of chez/slam 2) I genuinely expected HF to get into a massive argument with me on night 1 for being wrong on Vivax. 3) Like I've accused you of, I don't think he has changed any hearts and minds in this town. I can agree to 1 and probably to 3 as well. Not so much on 2. Question to you; based on 3, you think i haven't done that? Maybe not in a way you like but like you think i haven't made any major discussions happen for instance? Palmar is asking rayn about HF, but since Palmar mentions rayn here he has very little curiosity about the HF discussion and goes into disrupt suspicion mode again The posts from 2488 that go on a few just read natural to me. Don’t they to you? Says lynching you is the right thing for gameplay reasons. Then says he doesn’t really think you’re mafia though. Moves on to DMB and then a little while later concludes not mafia. Kinda yes, but I have to ignore something about someone if someone ever in this game is going to be mafia
I love this post
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On December 19 2023 01:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 01:42 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have a hard time understanding D2 which should actually tell a lot about the game, maybe the most in terms of what actual information we do have. Apparently everyone sees, or claim to see this entirely the other way i do see it.
marv in your opinion, whose votes were they key votes in changing the lynch from sandroba to Chezinu? I mean, mine. Koshi and Palmar basically followed me off sand so that’s a huge swing. Not trying to claim any cred for this btw. I think sand/hf supporting the lynch probably helped outside of votes. Do you genuinely think, in case i voted for sandroba (which i had all the reasons to do based on D1), not to mention with the "town core" as Koshi put it, Chezinu would have been lynched? Let's assume your thing during there did not happen, or maybe even with it.
Difficult question and I’m loathe to get into it too much for obvious reasons.
I can answer either way, rayn.
Koshi clearly recognised I was struggling with my sand vote sometime before I moved off him. And if my vote moves the whole sand wagon collapses. So the sand wagon collapsing was on the cards.
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Rayn - obviously your Chez vote cannot be held against you. But if I’m extending possible suspicion to people on the Chez wagon in good time (eg Trfel) then I can hardly say it looks good for you either.
I trust you see what I mean here
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On December 19 2023 01:52 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:44 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:38 marvellosity wrote:
Just one other thing on Trfel.
Why is he the only other player than me not to have some sort of mafia read on Palmar yesterday?
He was town reading Palmar, he said the only reason he might even consider Palmar is mafia is due to trouble finding the other scum. He was town reading rayn at that point, only real scum read was dmb But why when no one else was? I’m a special (possibly dumb fool) case. Trfel isn’t. So ??? Well if we assume Palmar is town, Trfel is just good? Same as Slam. I guess we can with ego and say Trfel and Slam can't be this good? Seems like a shitty thing to do
Maybe yes. But it’s not like TMI is not a thing, right?
I am not saying they can’t be good, or even if they are both town (or mafia for that matter lol) they haven’t completely outplayed me this game, they probably have as either alignment tbh.
Doesn’t mean it’s not interesting that sand, HF, Koshi think Palmar is mafia but Trfel, slam don’t, does it?
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On December 19 2023 01:55 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 01:52 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:44 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:38 marvellosity wrote:
Just one other thing on Trfel.
Why is he the only other player than me not to have some sort of mafia read on Palmar yesterday?
He was town reading Palmar, he said the only reason he might even consider Palmar is mafia is due to trouble finding the other scum. He was town reading rayn at that point, only real scum read was dmb But why when no one else was? I’m a special (possibly dumb fool) case. Trfel isn’t. So ??? Well if we assume Palmar is town, Trfel is just good? Same as Slam. I guess we can with ego and say Trfel and Slam can't be this good? Seems like a shitty thing to do Maybe yes. But it’s not like TMI is not a thing, right? I am not saying they can’t be good, or even if they are both town (or mafia for that matter lol) they haven’t completely outplayed me this game, they probably have as either alignment tbh. Doesn’t mean it’s not interesting that sand, HF, Koshi think Palmar is mafia but Trfel, slam don’t, does it?
And Koshi and HF are 100% town and I believe you are like 95% town here sand.
So from my perspective the townie thing to do as evidenced by flips and my read on you.
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* the townie thing to do is be suspicious of Palmar.
I realise I am sort of shading myself here with this logic too.
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On December 19 2023 02:00 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 01:55 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:52 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:44 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:38 marvellosity wrote:
Just one other thing on Trfel.
Why is he the only other player than me not to have some sort of mafia read on Palmar yesterday?
He was town reading Palmar, he said the only reason he might even consider Palmar is mafia is due to trouble finding the other scum. He was town reading rayn at that point, only real scum read was dmb But why when no one else was? I’m a special (possibly dumb fool) case. Trfel isn’t. So ??? Well if we assume Palmar is town, Trfel is just good? Same as Slam. I guess we can with ego and say Trfel and Slam can't be this good? Seems like a shitty thing to do Maybe yes. But it’s not like TMI is not a thing, right? I am not saying they can’t be good, or even if they are both town (or mafia for that matter lol) they haven’t completely outplayed me this game, they probably have as either alignment tbh. Doesn’t mean it’s not interesting that sand, HF, Koshi think Palmar is mafia but Trfel, slam don’t, does it? Slam was on Palmar. Sure, it's interesting how level headed Trfel has been. The high ego play is to think I was right on Trfel all along, but I just looked at the game where he was scum with chez and it's not very similar.
Can you elaborate?
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On December 19 2023 02:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2023 23:36 sandroba wrote:
Rayn only shows up when he is being talked about to try to diffuse suspicion off of him. He doesn't pursue his scum reads, and is very tame not to antagonize players in the thread too much, all of which are mafia-favored behaviors.
You do realise this is absolute horse shit? Go read any of my mafia games i have ever played.
I’m actually with rayn on this, I generally find him more antagonistic as mafia.
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On December 19 2023 02:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 02:00 marvellosity wrote:
* the townie thing to do is be suspicious of Palmar.
I realise I am sort of shading myself here with this logic too. I have never thought about that on Trfel to be honest. I thought about it on you, but then no, it doesn't make sense. D1 -> D2 is way too irrational and "too wrong" mafia play from you if that would be the case.
I am clearly a special case. Either I have the best read on Palmar as a result of the million games we played together, or he has played me for an A grade fool.
I can’t expect anyone else to have close to the same views on Palmar that I do
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On December 17 2023 10:41 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 10:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am also saying Palmar is obvious mafia barring the conversation we had.
Do you have an opinion of yours on that? Honestly I'm just not seeing Palmar as mafia. Like theoretically it could be possible, but I'm not sure if Palmar's play this game is in the range of his scum play (to be fair I don't really know what his scum play range is, I just was under the impression that it wasn't quite on the level of someone like you or Holyflare). I looked through his filter, there were a few things that came up but nothing seriously scummy. One of the main points I had on him ended up having a somewhat plausible explanation. Furthermore, I do believe marvellosity is town and I trust marvellosity's read on Palmar, he said he's going to re-evaluate that over the course of the day but for now that's still a townread. I think perhaps the most likely answer is that one of my assumptions are wrong and that Holyflare or sandroba or Alakaslam is mafia. I have no idea why they would be mafia though, I'm hoping to get through some filter dives sooner or later.
Why is Trfel the only player that trusts my Palmar read, when everyone else thinks I’m a moron?
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On December 19 2023 02:11 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 02:04 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 02:00 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:55 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:52 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:44 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:38 marvellosity wrote:
Just one other thing on Trfel.
Why is he the only other player than me not to have some sort of mafia read on Palmar yesterday?
He was town reading Palmar, he said the only reason he might even consider Palmar is mafia is due to trouble finding the other scum. He was town reading rayn at that point, only real scum read was dmb But why when no one else was? I’m a special (possibly dumb fool) case. Trfel isn’t. So ??? Well if we assume Palmar is town, Trfel is just good? Same as Slam. I guess we can with ego and say Trfel and Slam can't be this good? Seems like a shitty thing to do Maybe yes. But it’s not like TMI is not a thing, right? I am not saying they can’t be good, or even if they are both town (or mafia for that matter lol) they haven’t completely outplayed me this game, they probably have as either alignment tbh. Doesn’t mean it’s not interesting that sand, HF, Koshi think Palmar is mafia but Trfel, slam don’t, does it? Slam was on Palmar. Sure, it's interesting how level headed Trfel has been. The high ego play is to think I was right on Trfel all along, but I just looked at the game where he was scum with chez and it's not very similar. Can you elaborate? He had very few posts on that game, got easily lynched d1. https://tl.net/forum/mafia/560300-holy-guardians-cpt-3?user=Trfel
See this is the one I glanced at quickly
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?user=Trfel
And this scumgame Trfel had more pages of filter than any of the towngames I looked at quickly
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On December 19 2023 02:17 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 02:15 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 02:11 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 02:04 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 02:00 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:55 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:52 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:44 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:38 marvellosity wrote:
Just one other thing on Trfel.
Why is he the only other player than me not to have some sort of mafia read on Palmar yesterday?
He was town reading Palmar, he said the only reason he might even consider Palmar is mafia is due to trouble finding the other scum. He was town reading rayn at that point, only real scum read was dmb But why when no one else was? I’m a special (possibly dumb fool) case. Trfel isn’t. So ??? Well if we assume Palmar is town, Trfel is just good? Same as Slam. I guess we can with ego and say Trfel and Slam can't be this good? Seems like a shitty thing to do Maybe yes. But it’s not like TMI is not a thing, right? I am not saying they can’t be good, or even if they are both town (or mafia for that matter lol) they haven’t completely outplayed me this game, they probably have as either alignment tbh. Doesn’t mean it’s not interesting that sand, HF, Koshi think Palmar is mafia but Trfel, slam don’t, does it? Slam was on Palmar. Sure, it's interesting how level headed Trfel has been. The high ego play is to think I was right on Trfel all along, but I just looked at the game where he was scum with chez and it's not very similar. Can you elaborate? He had very few posts on that game, got easily lynched d1. https://tl.net/forum/mafia/560300-holy-guardians-cpt-3?user=Trfel See this is the one I glanced at quickly https://tl.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?user=TrfelAnd this scumgame Trfel had more pages of filter than any of the towngames I looked at quickly Did you read this game? Was he town siding and being reasonable in ther?
Haven’t spent enough time to work out what townsiding is in that game lol. Doesn’t this post look good though?
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=65#1281
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On December 19 2023 02:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 02:11 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 02:04 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 02:00 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:55 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:52 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:44 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:38 marvellosity wrote:
Just one other thing on Trfel.
Why is he the only other player than me not to have some sort of mafia read on Palmar yesterday?
He was town reading Palmar, he said the only reason he might even consider Palmar is mafia is due to trouble finding the other scum. He was town reading rayn at that point, only real scum read was dmb But why when no one else was? I’m a special (possibly dumb fool) case. Trfel isn’t. So ??? Well if we assume Palmar is town, Trfel is just good? Same as Slam. I guess we can with ego and say Trfel and Slam can't be this good? Seems like a shitty thing to do Maybe yes. But it’s not like TMI is not a thing, right? I am not saying they can’t be good, or even if they are both town (or mafia for that matter lol) they haven’t completely outplayed me this game, they probably have as either alignment tbh. Doesn’t mean it’s not interesting that sand, HF, Koshi think Palmar is mafia but Trfel, slam don’t, does it? Slam was on Palmar. Sure, it's interesting how level headed Trfel has been. The high ego play is to think I was right on Trfel all along, but I just looked at the game where he was scum with chez and it's not very similar. Can you elaborate? He had very few posts on that game, got easily lynched d1. https://tl.net/forum/mafia/560300-holy-guardians-cpt-3?user=Trfel The game you are referencing here Trfel was a no show until very end of D1.
What of it?
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On December 19 2023 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 02:26 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 02:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 19 2023 02:11 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 02:04 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 02:00 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:55 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:52 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:44 sandroba wrote:
[quote]
He was town reading Palmar, he said the only reason he might even consider Palmar is mafia is due to trouble finding the other scum. He was town reading rayn at that point, only real scum read was dmb But why when no one else was? I’m a special (possibly dumb fool) case. Trfel isn’t. So ??? Well if we assume Palmar is town, Trfel is just good? Same as Slam. I guess we can with ego and say Trfel and Slam can't be this good? Seems like a shitty thing to do Maybe yes. But it’s not like TMI is not a thing, right? I am not saying they can’t be good, or even if they are both town (or mafia for that matter lol) they haven’t completely outplayed me this game, they probably have as either alignment tbh. Doesn’t mean it’s not interesting that sand, HF, Koshi think Palmar is mafia but Trfel, slam don’t, does it? Slam was on Palmar. Sure, it's interesting how level headed Trfel has been. The high ego play is to think I was right on Trfel all along, but I just looked at the game where he was scum with chez and it's not very similar. Can you elaborate? He had very few posts on that game, got easily lynched d1. https://tl.net/forum/mafia/560300-holy-guardians-cpt-3?user=Trfel The game you are referencing here Trfel was a no show until very end of D1. What of it? What? The game sandroba quoted was a game where Trfel didn't appear until very end of D1, posting basically nothing. I don't think it's a good reference to anyone's scumgame in general.
Sorry! Thought you were talking about my game.
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On December 19 2023 02:29 sandroba wrote:
I'm reading through it and the student game he was scum it looks like Trfel has much more direction and is pushing the mafia agenda without waffling. He is defendig Breshe his scum partner and not town siding at all. Don't agree that it looks similar to this game
I think you’re being too specific with he townsiding stuff. I think it’s clear Trfel can make impressive, thought out posts as mafia.
Of course you can easily be right here sand. I’m not even calling Trfel mafia here (although it seems to be all I’m talking about!).
We just have to be bloody sure that we haven’t written him off as town when it’s not 100%
I’ll put it another way - I don’t think you, or Koshi, or Palmar can play the way you’ve played this game as mafia. I do think Trfel could play this way as mafia.
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I just can’t help the Palmar townread bugging me xD
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For someone who waffles a lot, he’s not wafffled much on palmar
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On December 19 2023 02:38 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 02:34 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 02:29 sandroba wrote:
I'm reading through it and the student game he was scum it looks like Trfel has much more direction and is pushing the mafia agenda without waffling. He is defendig Breshe his scum partner and not town siding at all. Don't agree that it looks similar to this game I think you’re being too specific with he townsiding stuff. I think it’s clear Trfel can make impressive, thought out posts as mafia. Of course you can easily be right here sand. I’m not even calling Trfel mafia here (although it seems to be all I’m talking about!). We just have to be bloody sure that we haven’t written him off as town when it’s not 100% I’ll put it another way - I don’t think you, or Koshi, or Palmar can play the way you’ve played this game as mafia. I do think Trfel could play this way as mafia. Argh, I hate that you clump Palmar together here, I don't think Palmar has done anywhere near what I would expect him to do as town. I don't like the reads of "can be mafia", even if Trfel could be convincing as mafia this game he is using his powers for good, which makes more sense if he is town. If Palmar is town, to me it becomes even more unreasonable Trfel is mafia. So I'm always lynching Palmar first here.
I just can’t argue with you either, I haven’t been right enough to do so 
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Palmar really does need to justify my read on him tomorrow and be the best townie he’s ever been.
It’s just what the game (town) needs
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On December 19 2023 02:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 02:34 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 02:29 sandroba wrote:
I'm reading through it and the student game he was scum it looks like Trfel has much more direction and is pushing the mafia agenda without waffling. He is defendig Breshe his scum partner and not town siding at all. Don't agree that it looks similar to this game I think you’re being too specific with he townsiding stuff. I think it’s clear Trfel can make impressive, thought out posts as mafia. Of course you can easily be right here sand. I’m not even calling Trfel mafia here (although it seems to be all I’m talking about!). We just have to be bloody sure that we haven’t written him off as town when it’s not 100% I’ll put it another way - I don’t think you, or Koshi, or Palmar can play the way you’ve played this game as mafia. I do think Trfel could play this way as mafia. So youre basically saying i am mafia or dmb is mafia or trfel is mafia?
Even if I’m hilariously wrong on Palmar, one of you is still mafia, right?
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EPT
