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On December 16 2023 07:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2023 07:47 Holyflare wrote:
Yeah whether it's true or not is irrelevant to me I don't care about what could have been. I just want the situation to make sense from people's perspectives and discover who had a townie thought process and I think we've reached that. I haven't really come that far, what's yours?
You've admitted my thought process can come from a townie. I think yours makes sense from someone thinking about how to bait people and not really knowing what's going on in depth. I think Koshi looks really good, I think sandro and slam look very good from it. Trfel is ok, I can see him thinking his stances were correct (even if you called it stupid), it's likely he just didn't think of the obvious answers at the time about sandro motivations but I don't think he looks particularly bad.
Marv looked bad in interaction with sandro but his thing with sandro after (and his posts for most of the game other than that) very likely makes him town.
Palmar looks bad, DMB is just ??? Obsessed with palmar to the point I think they're overcompensating a partner interaction bad.
Can't think if I've missed anyone.
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Nah that's it, game mostly solved I think.
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On December 16 2023 08:42 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2023 08:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I really don't know how Koshi and sandroba look really good even from your perspective. You don’t think they do? I mean I know you answered this but O.o I’m sort of getting the feeling that literally the only good thing I’ve done this game is vote Chez and apart from that I’ve defended mafia and tried to lynch a townie.
Finding mafia is not important tbh. You found townies and made right decisions and that's what matters
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So much posturing lol I don't think this game is too complicated tbh. If you have a block you can't get over on someone's alignment let it be known and let people give you their reasons for town reading them. There's too much needless future planning about what could happen instead of what should happen.
Dissect Palmer's filter together, ignore marv when he says Palmar is town and discuss :D
Last one might be tricky if it's not DMB but I really just think the blue read on me, the obsession with Palmar all game etc is just not a good look.
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On December 16 2023 11:12 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2023 03:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I still can't get over with Koshi's
"this thing X is SOOO bad for rayn"
"but maybe it's correct"
"but it's soooo bad, rayn is sooo scum especially how he did it"
"but yeah it's correct"
"yeah marv voting with his scumread because his scumread asked is also so good, me follow plz" How about Whine Ask to be lynched Slam votes chez Neuron activation Why does that NAI?
You are on fire my dude. Very good game.
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Palmar is obvious mafia.
##vote Palmar
v busy today so no elaboration atm
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marv's cheerleading is getting a bit tedious tbh, to the point where it's bad
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but I still think it's DMB with him
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If you think I kill the guy that has the same view of the game as me then you're insane lol. Obviously wifom and all that but I just haven't been around much for most of the game to push my world view (or really that invested in mafia anymore to care about posting all the time).
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Let's just play around with your world view for a bit. If I am town and you think Palmar is town, who is mafia?
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Everyone should have a vote down already and yet there's 2 vote for palmar and 1 for DMB. DMB, despite perpetually entering the thread and saying things and yelling from the mountaintops that Palmar is mafia has voted Palmar how many times this game?
You got it. 0.
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If you're a townie and you haven't voted yet then do so. I don't care if you're unsure, hold yourself accountable.
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On December 17 2023 22:38 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 22:29 sandroba wrote:
I'm willing to be convinced. I find a lot of HFs post extremely townie but his actions de aren't. He says he thought I was townie after palmar mason thing according to him, but never pushed this view in the thread or moved his vote This mason thing is a good example. I understand and read what you posted. But actually nothing that you posted should have totally overturned HFs read on palmar. It wasn’t so different to what palmar said, it’s just a matter of perspective. When I read your summary, sandro, this is what I thought - Palmar is still behaving like Palmar, and maybe his report on your chat is just born out of his scumread in you. Palmar will have known you’d post your version at some point, it’s not like he was the only one who could summarise the chat.
None of the mason chat overturned my view of palmar. The state of the game and what people are pushing is what overturned my read on palmar. I think he's just in the periphery of the game, commenting on it and following thread sentiment while affecting no real change.
I get that you think I'm mafia because I'm not pushing X world view or tunneling Y townie but that's not really how I play anymore, I am a way more co-operative player now and I just try and find townies and then solve through the PoE. I think I've managed to do that this game. I don't have the investment, or real inclination to want to push my view on anymore, I just haven't felt the care to do it. If I have to I will (and it looks like I might have to) but I don't want to put in the effort knowing that quite a few people will brush it aside as "oh, HF can do this effort as mafia too so it doesn't mean much". I also get that trying to get Palmar lynched is a tough task and it's why I haven't really brought it up.
If my ultimate goal today was to get Palmar lynched by doing nothing, do you think Koshi would be dead lol? Not a chance. I haven't even pushed that world view. NKA is a waste of most people's time. I want to fight for a lynch that I want but I also don't want to put the effort in to get that.
If you want to know why I think Palmar is mafia I think you just look at what he's doing over a large span of time rather than individual posts and arguing over semantics. I think his world view is not narrowing, it's expanding. He listed 3 town reads for example, one of them being DMB, and yet has simultaneously thrown out things like "DMB has not really mentioned HF" and "oh, what about DMB?" etc etc. His read on you is ??? he purports a town read but it's basically a null. His view on rayn? Who knows, he makes it seem like he doesn't have one. I don't think there's really anyone in the game that you can say Palmar has a definitive outlook on. Slam is now someone who should get vigged, which is blatantly just a catchphrase at this point because it's obvious we don't have a vig so it's just empty words.
There's also the association between DMB and Palmar which you can agree or disagree on I don't really care.
You should know better that I would fight tooth and nail as mafia than I currently am. I'm just apathetic as a townie.
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How many times have you heard mention of "Maybe it's just HF because he town read me" from Palmar? I would wager a shit tonne, because he has spent the whole game saying it and not even caring about it. That's not a town Palmar.
I also don't think it's scummy to town read a Palmar who got a vivax killed when I also thought Vivax was mafia, saw the same things and was fine going to bed with that world view. I think what Palmar posted after that lynch was vindicating enough from someone that did wrong to try and correct their mistake and look for the people that were apathetic to the vivax wagon and search there. Those are all fine actions and primarily why I town read him. I don't think I would really think otherwise. Why would I crusade for his wagon and call him mafia there ordinarily? What about how that went down was a bad look for Palmar that I should have picked up on and pushed?
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On December 17 2023 23:24 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar has been very specific that he is treating me as a null read until lylo forces his hand.
To be honest, I don’t know why this is, and I also don’t want to ask him, because I don’t think he wants to answer.
I think Palmar has his own personal reasons for doing that. That’s not how he approaches me if he’s mafia, not a chance.
It’s too random and specific a play. Mafia just don’t do that. Because he’s not mafia.
And you can keep repeating that and maybe it is true and if it is then we are all looking in the wrong place for mafia. I just don't think it is and I think he's keeping you at arm's length to kill you off and not make you look in his direction. So it is what it is, we both have views we're adamant about and I won't change mine without useful information on what he's done that isn't very your situation specific and you won't change yours. We achieve nothing here.
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On December 17 2023 23:27 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 23:25 Holyflare wrote:
How many times have you heard mention of "Maybe it's just HF because he town read me" from Palmar? I would wager a shit tonne, because he has spent the whole game saying it and not even caring about it. That's not a town Palmar.
I also don't think it's scummy to town read a Palmar who got a vivax killed when I also thought Vivax was mafia, saw the same things and was fine going to bed with that world view. I think what Palmar posted after that lynch was vindicating enough from someone that did wrong to try and correct their mistake and look for the people that were apathetic to the vivax wagon and search there. Those are all fine actions and primarily why I town read him. I don't think I would really think otherwise. Why would I crusade for his wagon and call him mafia there ordinarily? What about how that went down was a bad look for Palmar that I should have picked up on and pushed? So he’s mafia because he didn’t hard push you? Or?
He's mafia because he has done nothing appreciable after the vivax lynch. Pushing me at whatever juncture is by the by. I think him not pushing me here to any meaningful extent probably makes him mafia yeah. He resorts to his catchphrases of the not scum reading him and the not pushing stuff but hasn't given me the benefit of the doubt of reading me like he has other people because it's not in his best interest to do so because I'm one of the few options he has left.
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On December 17 2023 23:29 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 23:27 Holyflare wrote:On December 17 2023 23:24 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar has been very specific that he is treating me as a null read until lylo forces his hand.
To be honest, I don’t know why this is, and I also don’t want to ask him, because I don’t think he wants to answer.
I think Palmar has his own personal reasons for doing that. That’s not how he approaches me if he’s mafia, not a chance.
It’s too random and specific a play. Mafia just don’t do that. Because he’s not mafia. And you can keep repeating that and maybe it is true and if it is then we are all looking in the wrong place for mafia. I just don't think it is and I think he's keeping you at arm's length to kill you off and not make you look in his direction. So it is what it is, we both have views we're adamant about and I won't change mine without useful information on what he's done that isn't very your situation specific and you won't change yours. We achieve nothing here. Also, I haven’t said this line of reasoning once — it’s the first time.
It's semantics, I think he's more than capable of knowing how you'd react to a given read on you given the situations this game but, again, it's a waste of time talking about it.
I'm more than happy to look into other people if you wanna talk about them if you're 1000% certain palmar is town. I don't care about being wrong on mafia reads. I want to clear other people if we can.
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On December 17 2023 22:30 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 21:24 Holyflare wrote:
Let's just play around with your world view for a bit. If I am town and you think Palmar is town, who is mafia? Palmar is town. I’ve 180d on rayn again and I think he’s town. I think sandroba is town. Mafia just sits in the rest. Slam probably unlynchable today if it’s him. So between Trfel and DMB. That’s what I’m going to need to try to magic the time up to figure out.
Quoting this for when I get in later
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On December 17 2023 09:42 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 17 2023 09:36 Palmar wrote:
Yeah, your reads are based more on voting and actions and less on feel, tone and intuition, but the results are the same.
So we just lynch HF? I dont wanna do that right now because he was the only person being reasonable with me last night (lol) when noone else was. I can do whatever i want tomorrow. Do you have a case on him? I know my case is considered irrelevant for everyone else in the game already. As I said, I don't really. The points I have against him right now are: 1) He did very little early in the game. He was at the bottom of my "people who did shit on day 1" list outside of chez/slam 2) I genuinely expected HF to get into a massive argument with me on night 1 for being wrong on Vivax. 3) Like I've accused you of, I don't think he has changed any hearts and minds in this town.
1) So?
2) Can you elaborate on why I should have found you mafia? What specifically should I have found you mafia for?
3) What hearts or minds was I supposed to change? People who I think should have died have generally died.
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On December 18 2023 00:16 die_meatbaby wrote:
you guys can tell me I am paranoid about palmar beeing mafia but that it just an insane mafia play right there
Why are you pretending like nobody in this game reads palmar as mafia and you're the only one fighting an uphill battle? Why have you never voted palmar?
Who is mafia with palmar?
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EPT
