• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:58
CEST 19:58
KST 02:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists14[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers12Maestros of the Game 2 announced52026 GSL Tour plans announced14Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid24
StarCraft 2
General
MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 522 Flip My Base The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss Mutation # 520 Moving Fees
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 Strategy, Pimpest Plays Discussions Data needed [ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group D [ASL21] Ro16 Group C [ASL21] Ro16 Group B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2216 users

Winter Warfare Mafia - Page 10

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next All
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 15 2023 22:58 GMT
#2322
On December 16 2023 07:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2023 07:47 Holyflare wrote:
Yeah whether it's true or not is irrelevant to me I don't care about what could have been. I just want the situation to make sense from people's perspectives and discover who had a townie thought process and I think we've reached that.

I haven't really come that far, what's yours?


You've admitted my thought process can come from a townie. I think yours makes sense from someone thinking about how to bait people and not really knowing what's going on in depth. I think Koshi looks really good, I think sandro and slam look very good from it. Trfel is ok, I can see him thinking his stances were correct (even if you called it stupid), it's likely he just didn't think of the obvious answers at the time about sandro motivations but I don't think he looks particularly bad.

Marv looked bad in interaction with sandro but his thing with sandro after (and his posts for most of the game other than that) very likely makes him town.

Palmar looks bad, DMB is just ??? Obsessed with palmar to the point I think they're overcompensating a partner interaction bad.

Can't think if I've missed anyone.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 15 2023 22:58 GMT
#2323
Nah that's it, game mostly solved I think.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 15 2023 23:55 GMT
#2331
On December 16 2023 08:42 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2023 08:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I really don't know how Koshi and sandroba look really good even from your perspective.

You don’t think they do? I mean I know you answered this but O.o

I’m sort of getting the feeling that literally the only good thing I’ve done this game is vote Chez and apart from that I’ve defended mafia and tried to lynch a townie.


Finding mafia is not important tbh. You found townies and made right decisions and that's what matters
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 16 2023 00:12 GMT
#2336
So much posturing lol I don't think this game is too complicated tbh. If you have a block you can't get over on someone's alignment let it be known and let people give you their reasons for town reading them. There's too much needless future planning about what could happen instead of what should happen.

Dissect Palmer's filter together, ignore marv when he says Palmar is town and discuss :D

Last one might be tricky if it's not DMB but I really just think the blue read on me, the obsession with Palmar all game etc is just not a good look.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 16 2023 02:22 GMT
#2347
On December 16 2023 11:12 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2023 03:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I still can't get over with Koshi's
"this thing X is SOOO bad for rayn"
"but maybe it's correct"
"but it's soooo bad, rayn is sooo scum especially how he did it"
"but yeah it's correct"
"yeah marv voting with his scumread because his scumread asked is also so good, me follow plz"

How about

Whine

Ask to be lynched

Slam votes chez

Neuron activation

Why does that NAI?


You are on fire my dude. Very good game.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 16 2023 19:28 GMT
#2442
Palmar is obvious mafia.

##vote Palmar

v busy today so no elaboration atm
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 16 2023 19:28 GMT
#2443
marv's cheerleading is getting a bit tedious tbh, to the point where it's bad
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 16 2023 19:29 GMT
#2444
but I still think it's DMB with him
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 17 2023 12:14 GMT
#2573
If you think I kill the guy that has the same view of the game as me then you're insane lol. Obviously wifom and all that but I just haven't been around much for most of the game to push my world view (or really that invested in mafia anymore to care about posting all the time).
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 17 2023 12:24 GMT
#2574
Let's just play around with your world view for a bit. If I am town and you think Palmar is town, who is mafia?
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 17 2023 12:27 GMT
#2575
Everyone should have a vote down already and yet there's 2 vote for palmar and 1 for DMB. DMB, despite perpetually entering the thread and saying things and yelling from the mountaintops that Palmar is mafia has voted Palmar how many times this game?

You got it. 0.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 17 2023 12:29 GMT
#2576
If you're a townie and you haven't voted yet then do so. I don't care if you're unsure, hold yourself accountable.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 17 2023 14:20 GMT
#2605
On December 17 2023 22:38 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2023 22:29 sandroba wrote:
I'm willing to be convinced. I find a lot of HFs post extremely townie but his actions de aren't. He says he thought I was townie after palmar mason thing according to him, but never pushed this view in the thread or moved his vote

This mason thing is a good example.

I understand and read what you posted. But actually nothing that you posted should have totally overturned HFs read on palmar. It wasn’t so different to what palmar said, it’s just a matter of perspective.

When I read your summary, sandro, this is what I thought - Palmar is still behaving like Palmar, and maybe his report on your chat is just born out of his scumread in you.

Palmar will have known you’d post your version at some point, it’s not like he was the only one who could summarise the chat.


None of the mason chat overturned my view of palmar. The state of the game and what people are pushing is what overturned my read on palmar. I think he's just in the periphery of the game, commenting on it and following thread sentiment while affecting no real change.

I get that you think I'm mafia because I'm not pushing X world view or tunneling Y townie but that's not really how I play anymore, I am a way more co-operative player now and I just try and find townies and then solve through the PoE. I think I've managed to do that this game. I don't have the investment, or real inclination to want to push my view on anymore, I just haven't felt the care to do it. If I have to I will (and it looks like I might have to) but I don't want to put in the effort knowing that quite a few people will brush it aside as "oh, HF can do this effort as mafia too so it doesn't mean much". I also get that trying to get Palmar lynched is a tough task and it's why I haven't really brought it up.

If my ultimate goal today was to get Palmar lynched by doing nothing, do you think Koshi would be dead lol? Not a chance. I haven't even pushed that world view. NKA is a waste of most people's time. I want to fight for a lynch that I want but I also don't want to put the effort in to get that.




If you want to know why I think Palmar is mafia I think you just look at what he's doing over a large span of time rather than individual posts and arguing over semantics. I think his world view is not narrowing, it's expanding. He listed 3 town reads for example, one of them being DMB, and yet has simultaneously thrown out things like "DMB has not really mentioned HF" and "oh, what about DMB?" etc etc. His read on you is ??? he purports a town read but it's basically a null. His view on rayn? Who knows, he makes it seem like he doesn't have one. I don't think there's really anyone in the game that you can say Palmar has a definitive outlook on. Slam is now someone who should get vigged, which is blatantly just a catchphrase at this point because it's obvious we don't have a vig so it's just empty words.

There's also the association between DMB and Palmar which you can agree or disagree on I don't really care.




You should know better that I would fight tooth and nail as mafia than I currently am. I'm just apathetic as a townie.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 17 2023 14:25 GMT
#2607
How many times have you heard mention of "Maybe it's just HF because he town read me" from Palmar? I would wager a shit tonne, because he has spent the whole game saying it and not even caring about it. That's not a town Palmar.

I also don't think it's scummy to town read a Palmar who got a vivax killed when I also thought Vivax was mafia, saw the same things and was fine going to bed with that world view. I think what Palmar posted after that lynch was vindicating enough from someone that did wrong to try and correct their mistake and look for the people that were apathetic to the vivax wagon and search there. Those are all fine actions and primarily why I town read him. I don't think I would really think otherwise. Why would I crusade for his wagon and call him mafia there ordinarily? What about how that went down was a bad look for Palmar that I should have picked up on and pushed?
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 17 2023 14:27 GMT
#2609
On December 17 2023 23:24 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar has been very specific that he is treating me as a null read until lylo forces his hand.

To be honest, I don’t know why this is, and I also don’t want to ask him, because I don’t think he wants to answer.

I think Palmar has his own personal reasons for doing that. That’s not how he approaches me if he’s mafia, not a chance.

It’s too random and specific a play. Mafia just don’t do that. Because he’s not mafia.


And you can keep repeating that and maybe it is true and if it is then we are all looking in the wrong place for mafia. I just don't think it is and I think he's keeping you at arm's length to kill you off and not make you look in his direction. So it is what it is, we both have views we're adamant about and I won't change mine without useful information on what he's done that isn't very your situation specific and you won't change yours. We achieve nothing here.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 17 2023 14:29 GMT
#2610
On December 17 2023 23:27 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2023 23:25 Holyflare wrote:
How many times have you heard mention of "Maybe it's just HF because he town read me" from Palmar? I would wager a shit tonne, because he has spent the whole game saying it and not even caring about it. That's not a town Palmar.

I also don't think it's scummy to town read a Palmar who got a vivax killed when I also thought Vivax was mafia, saw the same things and was fine going to bed with that world view. I think what Palmar posted after that lynch was vindicating enough from someone that did wrong to try and correct their mistake and look for the people that were apathetic to the vivax wagon and search there. Those are all fine actions and primarily why I town read him. I don't think I would really think otherwise. Why would I crusade for his wagon and call him mafia there ordinarily? What about how that went down was a bad look for Palmar that I should have picked up on and pushed?

So he’s mafia because he didn’t hard push you?

Or?


He's mafia because he has done nothing appreciable after the vivax lynch. Pushing me at whatever juncture is by the by. I think him not pushing me here to any meaningful extent probably makes him mafia yeah. He resorts to his catchphrases of the not scum reading him and the not pushing stuff but hasn't given me the benefit of the doubt of reading me like he has other people because it's not in his best interest to do so because I'm one of the few options he has left.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 17 2023 14:31 GMT
#2612
On December 17 2023 23:29 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2023 23:27 Holyflare wrote:
On December 17 2023 23:24 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar has been very specific that he is treating me as a null read until lylo forces his hand.

To be honest, I don’t know why this is, and I also don’t want to ask him, because I don’t think he wants to answer.

I think Palmar has his own personal reasons for doing that. That’s not how he approaches me if he’s mafia, not a chance.

It’s too random and specific a play. Mafia just don’t do that. Because he’s not mafia.


And you can keep repeating that and maybe it is true and if it is then we are all looking in the wrong place for mafia. I just don't think it is and I think he's keeping you at arm's length to kill you off and not make you look in his direction. So it is what it is, we both have views we're adamant about and I won't change mine without useful information on what he's done that isn't very your situation specific and you won't change yours. We achieve nothing here.

Also, I haven’t said this line of reasoning once — it’s the first time.


It's semantics, I think he's more than capable of knowing how you'd react to a given read on you given the situations this game but, again, it's a waste of time talking about it.

I'm more than happy to look into other people if you wanna talk about them if you're 1000% certain palmar is town. I don't care about being wrong on mafia reads. I want to clear other people if we can.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 17 2023 14:35 GMT
#2614
On December 17 2023 22:30 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2023 21:24 Holyflare wrote:
Let's just play around with your world view for a bit. If I am town and you think Palmar is town, who is mafia?

Palmar is town. I’ve 180d on rayn again and I think he’s town. I think sandroba is town.

Mafia just sits in the rest. Slam probably unlynchable today if it’s him.

So between Trfel and DMB. That’s what I’m going to need to try to magic the time up to figure out.


Quoting this for when I get in later
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 17 2023 15:25 GMT
#2626
On December 17 2023 09:42 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2023 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On December 17 2023 09:36 Palmar wrote:
Yeah, your reads are based more on voting and actions and less on feel, tone and intuition, but the results are the same.

So we just lynch HF?

I dont wanna do that right now because he was the only person being reasonable with me last night (lol) when noone else was.
I can do whatever i want tomorrow.

Do you have a case on him? I know my case is considered irrelevant for everyone else in the game already.

As I said, I don't really. The points I have against him right now are:

1) He did very little early in the game. He was at the bottom of my "people who did shit on day 1" list outside of chez/slam
2) I genuinely expected HF to get into a massive argument with me on night 1 for being wrong on Vivax.
3) Like I've accused you of, I don't think he has changed any hearts and minds in this town.


1) So?

2) Can you elaborate on why I should have found you mafia? What specifically should I have found you mafia for?

3) What hearts or minds was I supposed to change? People who I think should have died have generally died.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 17 2023 15:25 GMT
#2628
On December 18 2023 00:16 die_meatbaby wrote:
you guys can tell me I am paranoid about palmar beeing mafia but that it just an insane mafia play right there


Why are you pretending like nobody in this game reads palmar as mafia and you're the only one fighting an uphill battle? Why have you never voted palmar?
Who is mafia with palmar?
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 16h 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 653
Hui .138
UpATreeSC 110
ProTech28
MindelVK 13
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 21791
Calm 5536
ggaemo 288
Dewaltoss 145
Zeus 83
ToSsGirL 49
Movie 33
Killer 31
Rock 27
Bale 25
[ Show more ]
soO 18
Shine 13
NaDa 7
Dota 2
qojqva2680
Counter-Strike
fl0m2219
byalli558
Other Games
Grubby2915
FrodaN1285
Beastyqt755
ceh9558
B2W.Neo477
mouzStarbuck277
Trikslyr172
ArmadaUGS163
Fuzer 123
QueenE57
Mew2King52
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV51
StarCraft 2
angryscii 25
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Dystopia_ 1
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki50
• Michael_bg 6
• FirePhoenix5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV632
League of Legends
• Nemesis4455
Other Games
• imaqtpie842
• Shiphtur204
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
16h 2m
Replay Cast
1d 6h
The PondCast
1d 16h
KCM Race Survival
1d 16h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 17h
Gerald vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
ByuN vs TBD
Rogue vs MaxPax
ShoWTimE vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Escore
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Universe Titan Cup
3 days
Rogue vs Percival
[ Show More ]
Ladder Legends
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
Ladder Legends
4 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-20
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.