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Vivax
22405 Posts
On April 29 2020 15:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: But they are not. I also think FF and Slam are town but i am not that sure about it. slam i can get behind, not ff why ff | ||
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Vivax
22405 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
Also i would really like to at least answer your case but i have a hard time understanding what youre accusing me of. Because youre saying i am doing similar things that i did as town or aomeone else did as town in some other game and that makes me MAFIA??? Also i always make reads that people find out to be for flimsy reasons early on in the game. Yes i think youre town and yes i think Trfel is town, whether or noy you like the reasoning that's something i do every single game as town (truth to be told probably in most games as mafia too). I am also not trying to paint Kurumi mafia. I was simply just questioning the only thing i found to be worth questioning at that point of the game. I dont think i am getting more definite information on that, and i dont know what that makes Kurumi so i am just gonna let it go and see what he does after. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
- Mafia is scared to post, therefore making excuses to not post It's simply no way Kurumi is even remotedly interested in Trfel's opening post unless the above is true. When i give my opinion on Trfel's posting (he had posted more in between), he says this: Well, I got all bad vibes from this and wanted another pair of eyes on this. Someone declaring at the start of the game that they're going to be lazy feels like a setup for a future cop-out for why they're not putting the effort in. This is okay alignment wise i think, i mean i can see it coming from a townie too -- the quote in itself not considering other things. The thing that interests me here is that Trfel is not actually being lazy as he claimed at the start of the game. When i confront this Kurumi says: Oh come on Ray, what kind of reasoning is this? If anything, we should be concerned that someone that has shown less interest in the game changes their behaviour so fast. If that's the whole picture, that is. Now what? Now we should be interested in Trfel because he ISN'T lazy? Basically throughout the game so far Kurumi has been saying: - Trfel is mafia because he is lazy and making excuses for not posting - If that's not true after all he is still mafia because he is actually posting aka, Trfel is mafia if he is not posting or if he is posting. What gives? | ||
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Vivax
22405 Posts
your case sounds an awful lot like you are implying that kurumi is doing what jock did in holy guardians except you did so at a time when trfel had at most 4 or 5 posts that didnt say much about his alignment. also again you are acting like you know my alignment from the start when ive been mostly shitposting before. ill play devils advocate with myself later but i find it odd atm that you and trfel didnt have the dejavus i had there. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On April 29 2020 04:52 ShoCkeyy wrote: Hey guys, meta reads here. I will lead town to victory. Hey Shockeyy can you open up this post for a bit more? | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9881 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On April 29 2020 16:45 Vivax wrote: im on phone formatting will keep it short. your case sounds an awful lot like you are implying that kurumi is doing what jock did in holy guardians except you did so at a time when trfel had at most 4 or 5 posts that didnt say much about his alignment. also again you are acting like you know my alignment from the start when ive been mostly shitposting before. ill play devils advocate with myself later but i find it odd atm that you and trfel didnt have the dejavus i had there. I remember the other game you are talking about and reading through the thread I did get flashbacks. I don't really get how you go from noticing the similarities to rayn having motivations other than scumhunting. Like you think rayn saw that trfel as lynchbait worked in the last game for town so he's leveraging the same idea as mafia and hoping that no-one will notice, with probably half the people playing in both games? I can't really see it. Its simpler just to think that trfel as lynchbait worked last time, kurumi wasn't here last time, rayn is thinking it might work again and get us a day 1 hit. The one thing I do agree with here is it looks like rayn is assuming you are town. I guess I can understand that based on meta (maaaaaaayyyyyybe), and he did say he townread you so its probably just a read more than an assumption. As for trfel's opening, stuff like that isn't really worth discussing unless he disappears at times that are overly convenient for mafia. + Show Spoiler + Is it bad or not? Let's let Team Liquid decide. On April 29 2020 05:41 GlowingBear wrote: This post is bad and you should feel bad for it. oh. @Glowingbear why is this such a bad post to you? I mean I don't agree with it really or see how it will have the intended effect but it doesn't seem so bad from an AI perspective @Kurumi: + Show Spoiler + On April 29 2020 07:48 Kurumi wrote: What do you mean? So far they've: -started the game out by saying they're going to be lazy -asked Alakaslam what does he mean with people giving excuses (see previous point, wut?) -asked me how I'm going to play and fished for whether I checked out the player roster for past games and meta -now questions GlowingBear about Vivax which is first "OK" thing. I have no idea why you're pushing back on Trfel so much given that all I've done is cast some shade on them. On April 29 2020 08:10 Kurumi wrote: Besides, bringing more information into the thread is never wrong, especially when we establish connections people have to each other based on their reactions and interactions. Would you say that trfel asking the questions he asked brought more information into the thread? I mean, I now know who you have played with before and am better able to judge the different way you might interact with me compared to say rayn... which is useful. | ||
Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
On April 29 2020 05:35 Vivax wrote: Maybe Fefe, but not for much more other than that he went off lurking after appearing so eager to post. Maybe a bit of stimulation will help. ##Vote: FF Thanks I like when people post about me I accidentally 5 hours of elite dangerous last night is my excuse. My SSD bricked itself over the weekend and I just got my new one yesterday | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9881 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On April 29 2020 10:09 Alakaslam wrote: Gonna have to side with Kurumi on the logic train. Defend yourself, not others, even when scum. Because it be scummy until the town begins wearing trousers on their head. Then defense the ally. On April 29 2020 15:17 Alakaslam wrote: Stuff getting really strangely simple. Like straight up people make excuse = they is scum. If Vivax is right. But it is funny, Trfel being more active than anyone else post excuse has me feeling townie on him even though it literally points scummier than before. Like, my head and my gut disagree I find these posts pretty scummy, like you want to agree with Kurumi but then want to back out for some reason. You seem so sure in one post and unsure in the next. Kurumi's logic train very much had to do with his suspicions on trfel and you seemed sure about it but then next thing you're like "yeah but maybe not." and that's it. Also, Kurumi's logic, I pointed out above why its bad logic. On the one hand, he says that all trfel has done is ask questions, but trfel's questions brought more information into the thread, which Kurumi says is 'never bad'. I don't think Kurumi is using consistent scumhunting logic here in going after trfel. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
I decided to make a list for summary's sake and that we hopefully don't miss out something later. No contribution so far: Grackaroni (posted, but it is literally an introduction post and a youtube-link post) Fecalfeast (admitted to not reading the thread) Koshi (no posts at all) Jockmcplop (no posts at all) Chezinu (but talking Chezinu and contributing is a whole can of worms) Low-effort/medium activity Shockeyy (claims town and wanting to lead it, pings me through quoting Vivax, scumreads Alakaslam, notes that Trfel has played games back-to-back and understands their desire to be lazy) Alakaslam (notes the cop-outs, pings me, claimed town, seemingly agrees with me, Vivax, torn about Trfel anyway) GlowingBear (pings Vivax, then votes them without providing more reasoning, interacts with Trfel on basis of past games, although seemingly agrees with me, is interested in how Trfel is going to play) Funnily enough, if someone were to put a gun to my head right now, I'd say all three are Town. That only means I at this moment lean Town more on them than Scum and it's flimsy enough to flip fast. If I were to pick the strongest town feel out of these three, it would be Slam because I liked him noticing the cop-outs and well, I like that he seems to agree with me  Active Vivax (pinged me, wanted to interact with people and did, pressured Fecalfeast through a vote on good reasoning after I asked for who I should be looking into, most importantly, came to the exact same conclusions I have right now.) Kurumi Trfel raynpelikoneet I have no idea with which one of these two I should start. There's an obvious triangle between them and me - with them defending each-other and pushing me, but pushing me so lightly that they don't even commit to a vote. And they do all this for me JUST pinging Trfel. Never called Trfel scum. Never voted Trfel. That's a misrepresentation. But the moment I mention Trfel to rayn, he believes that Trfel has shown "effort" (they did not, as I outlined in a post of mine). After this, rayn declares I should be suspicious of him because of his defense of Trfel - to which I have replied already as well. I was. I know that rayn tunnel-visions a lot, but the play he's shown this game is outright bogus to me. Trfel says one thing and then does the opposite. Which is, by definition, lying. You might have a good guess how I feel about liars. Rayn goes on saying that I'm illogically pushing Trfel for this, as if nothing Trfel would've done would change my attitude towards them. So here's what I can give on this front: if Trfel were truthful to their game-opening declaration, they'd be suspicious to me. BUT they would not be read as scum to me simply because of lack of information. Given how all this turned out, I believe Trfel to be scum. They go as far as literally reiterating rayn's previous point he made to me about how I should be suspicious of rayn and me not being suspicious of rayn is scummy. They also misrepresent me as saying "I'm gonna meta read everyone like crazy" which is wildly untrue. I expressed DOUBTS whether I can do that. Not that I can and will. And you know what's the best thing ever in Trfel's posting? On April 29 2020 10:40 Trfel wrote: -snip- However, I was mostly joking, to see people's reactions. It clearly wouldn't make much sense for me to try and give an excuse at the start of the game when I easily could have done so a few hours before. With the one caveat being that I tend to be a lower page-count player these past few games/years, I try to be more efficient with my posts, and I think it's been working fairly well. I just know some people tend to view that as suspicious. Amazing backpedal. So your plan from the start of the game was claim to be lazy and then call the first person to call you out scum? Because "mostly joking"? So not only you've lied about "being lazy" this game through your gameplay after I put some heat on you, you also admit it outright? Cool. So, the only reason I'm voting Trfel over raynpelikoneet really is that I think Trfel has a role. I'd rather have a scum-with-role dead than a vanilla scum dead. Easy? Easy. ##vote Trfel + Show Spoiler [unofficial votecount] + Fecalfeast - 0 raynpelikoneet - 1 Vivax Vivax - 1 GlowingBear | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [unofficial votecount] + Fecalfeast - 0 raynpelikoneet - 1 Vivax Vivax - 1 GlowingBear Trfel - 1 Kurumi | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
Shit more like 5 years ago | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On April 29 2020 14:01 Trfel wrote: Care to explain which ones? On April 29 2020 04:36 Alakaslam wrote: But well what of it, dead game is dead game will come back when she wakes up His post here about dead game being a dead game, then his follow up post here to you Trfel. On April 29 2020 09:45 Alakaslam wrote: Meh, NAI but also unnecessary. Just kinda bad. I cant always be here, I don’t have to go on and on about my daily teaching schedule or coronavirus actually making me busier and whatnot. I just show up when I can. Because I’m town, and therefore dont give a shit what people think. Typically as town I act like I don't care, but I do care. As a mafia member, I actually wouldn't care about what town thinks since the end game is winning and killing town. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On April 30 2020 00:06 Fecalfeast wrote: Kurumi if you think this is spammy you would have hated it a couple years ago... Shit more like 5 years ago Yea, I went from 40 players with about 20 page games to 10 players with 200+ pages, now its 10 with 70 pages, so not that bad anymore. | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9881 Posts
On April 30 2020 00:18 ShoCkeyy wrote: So far I have Slam, Koshi, and Kurumi on my possibly mafia list. Why koshi? | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9881 Posts
On April 30 2020 00:03 Kurumi wrote: + Show Spoiler + Trfel raynpelikoneet I have no idea with which one of these two I should start. There's an obvious triangle between them and me - with them defending each-other and pushing me, but pushing me so lightly that they don't even commit to a vote. And they do all this for me JUST pinging Trfel. Never called Trfel scum. Never voted Trfel. That's a misrepresentation. But the moment I mention Trfel to rayn, he believes that Trfel has shown "effort" (they did not, as I outlined in a post of mine). After this, rayn declares I should be suspicious of him because of his defense of Trfel - to which I have replied already as well. I was. I know that rayn tunnel-visions a lot, but the play he's shown this game is outright bogus to me. Trfel says one thing and then does the opposite. Which is, by definition, lying. You might have a good guess how I feel about liars. Rayn goes on saying that I'm illogically pushing Trfel for this, as if nothing Trfel would've done would change my attitude towards them. So here's what I can give on this front: if Trfel were truthful to their game-opening declaration, they'd be suspicious to me. BUT they would not be read as scum to me simply because of lack of information. Given how all this turned out, I believe Trfel to be scum. They go as far as literally reiterating rayn's previous point he made to me about how I should be suspicious of rayn and me not being suspicious of rayn is scummy. They also misrepresent me as saying "I'm gonna meta read everyone like crazy" which is wildly untrue. I expressed DOUBTS whether I can do that. Not that I can and will. And you know what's the best thing ever in Trfel's posting? On April 29 2020 10:40 Trfel wrote: -snip- However, I was mostly joking, to see people's reactions. It clearly wouldn't make much sense for me to try and give an excuse at the start of the game when I easily could have done so a few hours before. With the one caveat being that I tend to be a lower page-count player these past few games/years, I try to be more efficient with my posts, and I think it's been working fairly well. I just know some people tend to view that as suspicious. Amazing backpedal. So your plan from the start of the game was claim to be lazy and then call the first person to call you out scum? Because "mostly joking"? So not only you've lied about "being lazy" this game through your gameplay after I put some heat on you, you also admit it outright? Cool. So, the only reason I'm voting Trfel over raynpelikoneet really is that I think Trfel has a role. I'd rather have a scum-with-role dead than a vanilla scum dead. Easy? Easy. ##vote Trfel Holy wall of text Batman. You also seem overdefensive in this post (for someone who doesn't have any votes on them.) Trfel says one thing and then does the opposite. Which is, by definition, lying. You might have a good guess how I feel about liars. Rayn goes on saying that I'm illogically pushing Trfel for this, as if nothing Trfel would've done would change my attitude towards them. So here's what I can give on this front: if Trfel were truthful to their game-opening declaration, they'd be suspicious to me. BUT they would not be read as scum to me simply because of lack of information. Given how all this turned out, I believe Trfel to be scum. Are you sure trfel was lying and didn't just get into the game more than he expected to? | ||
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