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On July 04 2019 21:28 Pandain wrote:
Yeah it sucks Conv was parity cop but he wasn't a bad lynch objectively. He was pretty null.
Meanwhile, you guys are trying to lynch someone who is obviously town (ES)
Please highlight why she is obviously town because what I see is the complete opposite and you needlessly defend her over and over again with absolutely 0 content to say WHY she is town when there are a plethora of reasons to say why she is not.
I won't ever listen to somebody repeatedly saying oh because she's obviously town when there are cold hard facts to say otherwise. Don't you love facts? You kept harping on about them to me over and over again like 2 hours ago.
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Do you think I read the entire previous day? No. That's your problem. Prove to me she's town!
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Unless the only thing you're talking about is your really really awful logic point of why does ES not vote Grack WHO YOU THINK IS MAFIA over anyone else.
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On July 04 2019 21:31 Pandain wrote:
I'd be good with lynching Eywa, someone who is down with lynching someone who he thinks is obvtown
Yes, this is what mafia does. Blatantly points to their objective in the thread.
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I don't understand what you're doing Pandain. You are either an obstinate townie who picks and chooses facts when they suit him the most or mafia with extra information so you form narratives to fit what you're seeing. I think it's quite likely the latter because:
You defended me from Jock when Jock was actually CORRECT that I didn't post any other information about Eywa in the thread other than Eywa was different from last game because of the content of their posts.
You defended ES from people by really bad logic saying "oh, ES must be town because she's not voting Grack" while simultaneously thinking Grack was mafia. You then twisted it to say that if she was mafia with Grack she's always vote Grack which I don't think you can point to any mafia game really where any mafia would do that over trying to start a wagon on someone else.
This morning you were creating the narrative on me where you extrapolated some information, made up some bs about me not reading grack an alignment because he said he was lazy (not the case, but so what if I even did that?) and neglected to put any of the other information I posted into your read and just resolutely repeated the point despite other people telling you it was bad.
Then you ignored ACTUAL evidence that Eversince has lied about her Grack meta read repeatedly in the thread, something that Eversince even ACKNOWLEDGES but you say you didn't like it. You didn't like FACTS that were true.
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On July 04 2019 21:34 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 21:26 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 21:25 Grackaroni wrote:On July 04 2019 21:24 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 21:22 Grackaroni wrote:On July 04 2019 21:21 Pandain wrote:
Grack why do you think I'd get shot? Because you're being townie and you won't get lynched. Whoa there, that's completely the opposite. lol are you pushing Pandain? I didn't read yet between after the lynch and now. Perhaps you should get to doing that then because his push tonight was completely bat shit insane. It absolutely wasn't bat shit insane. Your posts are actually quite hard to follow (because you tend to make a point over the course of a bunch of pages and expect people to follow exactly the same train of thought as you) and it always makes you look somewhat mafia regardless of your alignment. You probably know this already yourself. I haven't played a game yet where you have been confirmed town from your post content alone (ie without game mechanics confirming it for you). Why do you think there's so much argument about things you have/haven't said already? Its because you make it really difficult by always having the big picture message buried somewhat between the lines and then pull it out later as if it was obvious all along. So when you say things like 'his push was bat shit insane' and other stuff you say about how obvious it is that you're right and other people aren't and how stupid everyone else it, it might be worth wondering whether its everyone else being stupid or the fact that you are obscuring the simplicity of your points for some unknown reason.
Jock, you say my posts are quite hard to follow but that's PURELY because Pandain made it about my initial post. He never once asked me why my vote stayed on Eversince after the fact did he? It's classic manipulation to hyper focus on one part of a filter and make it all about that and ignore any context about the read or what could have influenced it. So, yeah, it may have looked really fucked up from your perspective but that's because I'm just defending it from the accusation rather than the view as a whole.
The big picture thing is totally understandable because I work 90% of the day and phone post 100% of it. That's why typically on a weekend (or now because I've come home early today) you'll see my posts have 100% more clarity than usual.
So, when Pandain says "oh, you're mafia because all it took to switch to ES was an afk post and Grack saying he's lazy" it's obviously incorrect because all you have to do is look at literally the next page of the thread and see me talking to ES about my case, not liking her responses and pushing her forward. Something that is really very obvious if you even look at my filter more than a few posts past what Pandain was mentioning!
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Rayn I'm 50% of the way through your post and you've already made a mistake. The "says lies, misconstrues" refers to all the posts she says after I kept my vote on her. For example, she called my points trash but didn't know what my points were. She then elaborated that she thought my only point was the meta read which she said was fine before. So, yes, she's:
Either lied about my meta read being good or trash
Misconstrued my case to just being about the meta read when really that was old and I had many more points after that
These are the reasons I KEPT my vote on her after she returned otherwise I would have just simply switched to Grack. So I initially kept it on her because the return afk post looked bad and MAINTAINED my vote on her because what she said AFTER that was lies, misconstruing etc.
-----
Now I'm at the rest of your post. It's quite simple. I had read grack's filter, made up my mind to lynch him because my mind only ever focuses on one person at a time to lynch rather than the big picture. THEN ES posted the afk excuse and she's in the forefront of my mind now, my case is still outstanding on her and I want to keep the pressure up and vote her still. THEN the next page she posts about the meta thing and lies etc.
If ES had simply posted nothing I would have been voting Grack because his filter was fresh in my mind. If ES had made that afk excuse, answered my points and moved on I would also be voting Grack. You just have to look at the next page of the thread to see why I kept voting her, it's really a trivial point.
If you break down the grack post into individual details and whatnot, sure, I probably don't agree with it all. I agreed with the fact he said your logic is wrong because to me it was also wrong, as I highlighted before when I said to you "I don't agree with this point" and I think Pandain even corrected you. I think people can say good as mafia but mean just as town so we disagreed there. It wasn't until you explained it later that I really understood what you were getting at so in retrospect, yeah, I agree with Grack at that point because I felt similarly but I can see how a mafia Grack can also make that post knowing what I know about the language you think ES wrote vs what I interpreted it as.
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The optimal lynch tomorrow is really very likely Grack over everyone else. He shenaniganed away from ES, he has posted almost nothing, he's literally the only one in the game who hasn't weighed in on anything the entire night, he only comes in to make random comments about pandain dying without having read the thread and leaving again. It's terrible mafia play but it's effective. I have no respect for you Grack.
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On July 04 2019 21:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:Also HF, i would also want an aswer to this: Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 18:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Do you remember es posting "afk excuses" vefore the es/grack thing in this game and if she did, why wasnt that in your case since you think its scummy? You said you don't remember. You however posted this: Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 17:26 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 17:10 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 03:02 Eversince wrote:
Looks like I'm die..
I'm try to catch up but I have to go take care of animals. No promises.
It was after this post which was essentially an afk excuse when under pressure. Keep seeing them every time I bring up a case or valid points on her. EVERY TIME there is a valid point or case an excuse comes out. It doesn't matter if she posts more after it, feeling the need to post it is scummy imo. Especially if you stay! On July 04 2019 17:22 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 17:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am pretty sure ES doesnt make afk excuses based purely on her filter size. No she makes plenty of them and then responds to points which is imo worse because it looks like an excuse to leave at any point. It's unnecessary and a bad habit for mafia. Either way it reinvigorated my want to lynch her until she actually responded. If you think this is solely why I wanted to lynch Eversince and this is what you think made me solely keep my vote on her then you're either terrible or mafia. It's way better to keep pressure on someone that I have a case on and instill the fear of a lynch in them than vote grack who has done nothing. Every time there is a valid point or a case[...] But you didn't even remember if she did that when you made your original case. I would instantly buy your explanation if that happened before in this game AND you had remembered it and explained it with that, but you didn't. Also the lower part of the quote; I was looking for that post when i wrote my big post and couldn't find it for some reason. But doesn't this contradict solely the fact you even said you wanted to lynch Grack in the first place? Like idk why do you say that? Do you think Grack will fall and GRACK (lol you get it?  ) under pressure if you just say you might want to lynch him? If you actually meant to pressure Grack as you say, i think your follow up on Grack isn't really townie as per my bullet point list.
I don't know how to explain it and I don't really know if I wrote "my cases" or cases in general but every time I see some really good points in my mind while skimming I see ES having to dash off - even if she stays and answers briefly. I can't explain if it's true or not and maybe it happened and was accurate or didn't happen but it's synonymous in my mind with good points and afk excuses. Can I explain it if it's wrong? No, and I'll look bad. It's just what I had in the back of my head and why it isn't in any case. I have no reason to lie about this at all in any alignment. If I'm mafia I have no need to make up an excuse to vote Eversince for posting an afk excuse when I can just reference any of her other points in the next page as reasons. It's just the truth and whether it's accurate or not doesn't really matter if it's what I believed at the time. The main reason that the vote stayed is because I thought it was REALLY convenient to be the leading wagon with outstanding points on you and say "I don't have much time gotta dash soon!"
The last point I'm not really sure what you're saying. I was going to vote Grack, put him in the lead and then ES returned, posted that post and I left my vote on there with the option to vote Grack and my intention to vote Grack made really clear. Then literally the NEXT page ES starting spouting lies and all semblance of wanting to vote Grack went out of the window when all I cared about was someone lying and most likely being mafia.
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Do I even believe ES is mafia anymore? Yeah, my brain does because everything she posts seems to be a lie.
+ Show Spoiler +
My heart isn't really in it and I think she's probably town from tone alone and it's a bit depressing but you should never trust your heart so I'm going to ignore it in the hunt for information on everyone else.
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I don't think Jock is mafia, I don't think Rayn is mafia. I probably don't think Eywa is mafia.
Trfel is really just a person that exists... I remember liking his posts when he posts them but he's so background and he ninja voted at deadline.
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On July 04 2019 22:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am trying to weigh where your vote should be (or go) on how you reacted to things at that time and how i think you SHOULD react as town in my mind. It is not 100% clear to me where your vote should go. Can you point out me the first post when you got home or somewhere where you had actual time to be properly involved with the game last night?
Google says I got home about 19:15
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/549333-minifeast-15?page=38#758
So about here. But I didn't really go on the computer, I got naked first because that's the first thing I do when I get home. Did some other things, made some food, played a bit of Mario briefly.
The part where I say Grack is a good vote is from reading his filter on the train because I can just press all and I don't need signal to load his filter pages after it's all loaded. Obviously can't go to the vote thread when on public transport because of signal/no room to play anyway and then I pretty much get through the door when ES returns.
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On July 04 2019 22:17 Eversince wrote:
What I don't get HF is you literally said it was a meta read I got wrong you m!ES for.
Then I prodded you to talk, you scum me for that too. But I did it because I could see m!HF trying to kill the t!ES that has a lot of pressure and is going to drop like a stone Friday. I felt better after our conversations though. I don't really agree with what you think but I could see how you made it there.Now you're saying I don't even understand so it's back to 'let's start a storm with ES so I can make her look scum'.
Originally, yes?
When you returned and said that my points were trash you only referenced my meta points even though Jock was quizzing me on why I scum read you after that fact and I had many more points. It made it look like you hadn't read the thread, you hadn't even really contemplated what I'd posted. Then you said only the meta points were trash even though previously you said they were okay for me to vote you on so obviously that's conflicting information and I mafia read you for it.
Now, since then I've delved into your filter, found the grack inconsistencies etc and called you mafia again but I don't really want to get into a fight, that's the last thing I want to do. Just want to post my honest thoughts and see what happens.
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On July 04 2019 22:20 Grackaroni wrote:
I'm quite annoyed at you HF.
I don't want to listen to your shit just because I didn't post in the night phase. I gave my best attempt at solving the game yesterday. It's not an easy game to solve because a lot of the players (ES, Pandain, Eywa) are reads that I have that are pure tone reads.
I think I could definitely be wrong about my Eywa read, and maybe Eversince but that would impress me.
I don't want to cause any offense, it was a little jab at mafia players who play under the radar. I don't think it's insulting to call you out on something that you've said you haven't done (read any of the thread this night phase). Of all the people that have posted they have some kind of reason for thinking what they do and accusing someone of something, excluding you who have not weighed in any thoughts. What am I supposed to conclude from that?
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On July 04 2019 22:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 22:17 Jockmcplop wrote:
Rayn what are your thoughts on trfel? I think he did his town thing on the post on HF.
Oh, forgot trfel made the case on me lol! Yeah, that was good (even if it was completely wrong). Don't think he'd be that bold as mafia at least.
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On July 04 2019 22:28 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 22:26 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 22:20 Grackaroni wrote:
I'm quite annoyed at you HF.
I don't want to listen to your shit just because I didn't post in the night phase. I gave my best attempt at solving the game yesterday. It's not an easy game to solve because a lot of the players (ES, Pandain, Eywa) are reads that I have that are pure tone reads.
I think I could definitely be wrong about my Eywa read, and maybe Eversince but that would impress me. I don't want to cause any offense, it was a little jab at mafia players who play under the radar. I don't think it's insulting to call you out on something that you've said you haven't done (read any of the thread this night phase). Of all the people that have posted they have some kind of reason for thinking what they do and accusing someone of something, excluding you who have not weighed in any thoughts. What am I supposed to conclude from that? I don't think it's bad to suspect someone for being the only person not contributing at night and I don't mind being lynched. Just you going out and saying that you don't respect me for not posting in the game felt a little personal.
I'd never intentionally insult someone that way just for the sake of it. Sorry :/
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On July 04 2019 22:33 Jockmcplop wrote:I still think the way trfel writes the following point is actually really good: Show nested quote +
To me this is the strongest point. About two and a half hours before the lynch, Holyflare says that he would slightly prefer lynching Grackaroni over Eversince:
On July 04 2019 01:54 Holyflare wrote:
If I had to choose between Grack or ES for a lynch I'd probably choose grack tbh. His filter is void of literally aby content. People are town, he guesses I could maybe be mafia. Es is town because of bathtub? Drunk posting that doesn't even look drunk?
Dumb and probably mafia.
Day 1 vote count
Vote Count, Eight Minutes to EoD
Eversince: (5) raynpelikoneet, Eywa-, Holyflare, Conversion, Grackaroni
Grackaroni: (4) Trfel, Pandain, jockmcplop, Eversince
If Holyflare changed his vote to Grackaroni, Grackaroni would be lynched instead of Eversince. Let's assume that Eversince's posts and discussion with Holyflare caused Holyflare to change his mind and prefer lynching Eversince to lynching Grackaroni. But even still, Holyflare very obviously preferred lynching Grackaroni to lynching anyone else. With obvious shenanigans coming (evidence to follow), Holyflare here could either: push hard for an Eversince lynch to try and make sure he gets his preferred lynch, or vote for Grackaroni, a lynch he is happy with, to prevent shenanigans off of his preferred lynch targets.
Posts in the thread in the last eight minutes of Day 1, making it clear that shenanigans were incoming:
On July 04 2019 04:24 Pandain wrote:
I'm strongly for a Conv lynch (if Grack won't get lynched) just because I have town reads on everyone except Grack and him.
Jock is way too active. Rayn is way too active. HF could be scum but seems townie.
Trfel is playing like his town games. Eywa was really townie with his exhcnage with me.
Who else wants to lynch Conv (or grack)
On July 04 2019 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote:
Pandain switch to conversion with me
On July 04 2019 04:26 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
I switched.
Who else wants to join?
On July 04 2019 04:27 Pandain wrote:
If ES and Trfel switch ES is saved
Grack vote conv
Instead of voting for Grackaroni or persuading people not to switch votes, Holyflare argues with Eversince, accomplishing neither of these goals. He does make one post directed to the thread as a whole:
On July 04 2019 04:29 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
Because I know you tools will do some stupid shit and she won't get lynched.
But if he really wanted to prevent the shenanigans and the Conversion lynch, it would have been much more effective to push for Eversince and talk to the people present, instead of arguing with his extremely strong scumread. Holyflare carries a lot of influence and generally gets his way in mafia games, but here it feels like he just kinda let it happen.
I understand what you are saying hf when you say that you didn't switch to grack because ES was making more mafia posts at the end of the day, right, making you determined to kill ES? (this makes sense out of context of the timing of events) Here's the thing... flashback to 15 minutes before deadline and votes are going down left right and center. You know what you're doing and are normally quite insistent that you get your way, but there was no discussion at all about other people's votes at this point. I would expect you to be at least trying to stop the shenanigans or join in so you have some measure of control over what happens.. So were you distracted by arguing with ES, did you not see all the votes go in or were you just not really bothered who got lynched? Sorry if you already explained this.
I think all the shenanigans happened in the last five minutes didn't they? Was far more concerned with arguing with ES and playing Mario Maker than the game :D
Got a world record on my friend's level at least.
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Rayn are you scum reading es still?
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Eywa talk me through why it's ES into lynching me in your lynch order?
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Rayn what exactly are your reads actually?
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EPT
