EPTOn March 31 2018 13:09 n00bKing wrote:
The Goon, Framer, and Rolecop do not appear in the Role Info section
The Goon, Framer, and Rolecop do not appear in the Role Info section
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[M][N]MafiacalFeast I - Page 2
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
On March 31 2018 13:25 ExO_ wrote: XD FF I think we’re having a miscommunication. I asked if it would be one of those setups listed or it could involve any of those roles within the samples...you said yes, which could mean either yes the samples, or yes could involve any of the roles yes | ||
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Eversince
Philippines2297 Posts
If this starts earlier than 04/05 or 6'th, I'll probably be mostly afk. I'll be around when I can after that though! | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On April 01 2018 04:21 Eversince wrote: /in If this starts earlier than 04/05 or 6'th, I'll probably be mostly afk. I'll be around when I can after that though! happy birthday that may also be fake | ||
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Eversince
Philippines2297 Posts
I don't celebrate my birthday, but it's real  Thank you <3 | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Alakaslam
United States17334 Posts
Happy birthdate of birth | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
On April 01 2018 11:27 Alakaslam wrote: Better than tomorrow Happy birthdate of birth you in or what | ||
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ykl
Malaysia541 Posts
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currentlyhomeless
Japan405 Posts
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currentlyhomeless
Japan405 Posts
seems like every setup has at least 1 extra KP. This is a 13p game so I think it's a bit overkill (no pun intended). Swingy games emphasise luck more than skill I think. Setup A: What's stopping both the named VT and veteran from both claiming on day 1? You get two confirmed townies and one is guaranteed to be living by the next day. Even better, since the mafia have no framer, the parity cop can just check one of them to get a guaranteed-good check on N1. Even if a mafia counterclaims and the PC checks them, the mafia is guaranteed to flip within 2 cycles since a counterclaim in a known setup means both players die if the townie dies first. Setup B: Rolecop is 100% useless for mafia. I'm not sure there is a role here for mafia that can balance the setup because watcher is a stupid role that should never be used IMO. SK also makes mafia's job very hard because if town claims properly, mafia get stuck forcing both their KP and mislynches into a tiny pool of players. This is a terrible setup to be scum precisely because you have to both NK and try to mislynch the same group of people who are not PRs (as opposed to most other setups where the setup doesn't pigeonhole you) and people will get confirmed really fast. For instance there's a really strong town strategy, one mason claims day 1 and then the watcher watches that person. Watcher is pretty broken in this regard, because 1. mafia cannot counterclaim mason, 2. killing that mason confirms two people and simultaneously outs whoever killed the mason. Wandering miller does not really weaken town, even in the case where the wandering miller happens to visit the mason. (if this happens and the mason doesn't die, the watcher knows who it was because the mafia is not going to rolecop a claimer; if it happens and the mason does die, it's just a coin flip between two people. If 3 people visit, it's even better for town because that means the SK was found too) The SK just adds volatility, and I'm not sure 13p setups with an SK can be balanced properly. Setup C: This might be the most balanced of the setups if you replace the gunsmith with the traditional gunsmith role who can just tell whether the target has a gun or not (cops, mafia, PGOs have guns, and to make it interesting have all mafia return "has gun" even if the mafia is a GF, and have framer have no effect on this) However I think if minimum 2 out of 3 of the PRs for town survive by day 3 I think the game is won by town because the PRs can just claim on that day and compare checks. So while it might be balanced in relation to the other setups I don't know whether it is in actuality... Setup D: PGO is the same as innocent child in this setup. Mafia know which setup is rolled based on their team, so if someone claims PGO when the setup doesn't have one, they know it's a fake claim. If there is one, they know it's probably real. However the setup is broken by this because there's a jailer, so according to the way the roleblocks work, the jailer's roleblock will prevent the PGO's ability from going off, which means even if mafia RB + hit a claimed PGO, the PGO won't die if saved by the jailer. At any rate jailer + cop vs RB + GF/framer is balanced...PGO makes it heavily town-favoured. tl;dr I think these setups could trend more toward "normal" and the balance would be better | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
On April 02 2018 03:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: I agree with setup B. It is dumb. On April 02 2018 03:32 Fecalfeast wrote: I would take some suggestions on how to keep some of the more underused roles (PGO, gunsmith, SK, etc) if not I'll just make all the setups boring instead | ||
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currentlyhomeless
Japan405 Posts
On April 02 2018 03:32 Fecalfeast wrote: I would take some suggestions on how to keep some of the more underused roles (PGO, gunsmith, SK, etc) if not I'll just make all the setups boring instead I think if you add a KP role for one side you should take all the others out. Keep in mind that PGO is effectively just a better named townie. Gunsmith is a good way to balance town KP but it doesn’t work well in small setups by itself I think. One way to balance it would be to give the gunsmith a gun to start with which could then be passed N1. SK is a toughie, you need enough PRs for both town and mafia to balance the extra KP but not too many or you’ll create breaking strategies. Jailer & cop type (+ vet, maybe) for town and strongman & RB for mafia might work. Or, allow mafia to “borrow” a KP to double stack (but gives up their KP the night after) which I think might help balance the KP effectively. Too many setups default mafia teams to GF/framer and these roles are useless most of the time. I think incorporating strongman & RB and foregoing framer types would help in KP balancing. If an SK is present a hybrid strongman would be cool. What I am thinking is basically a quality that the mafia team itself possesses (not tied to any player) such that every night the “strongman” action can either be taken offensively or defensively. If offensive, the KP is guaranteed kill. If defensive, the mafia team chooses a player to make veteran for the night. Make it usable twice only, not refundable if unnecessary. Mafia’s secondary role is RB. Then SK + Jailor + cop + veteran would probably be balanced because there is sufficient anti-KP/faction balance and there are no breaking claim strategies. Anyway IMO a lot of these roles are underused in normal games because...they’re not normal. lol. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Looking forward to reading that filter Im almost hard right now | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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Calix
3379 Posts
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
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