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On March 07 2018 05:57 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 05:53 n00bKing wrote:On March 07 2018 05:48 MoosyDoosy wrote:
If anything, rsoultin changes her reads to conform to Damdred's over time. Considering how hard Damdred townread rsoultin I think she's metagaming him to seem townie and working around his reads because she knows he can read her.
If rsoul were scum and "knows damdred can read her" then why would she draw his eyes to her by making him her early scumread and pushing for his lynch? Metagame. Damdred said this is what he'd expect from town rsoultin so she might be doing it as scum to make him she's town.
*shrug* You can ask Damdred whether he thinks that's something she's likely to try. Anyway, she seems willing to engage with you (even while simultaneously saying there's no way you could get her lynched) so feel free to keep needling her (she's at least giving us plenty of content to try and nail her with later, if she IS scum) but don't let yourself fall into the "tunnel" she talked about. You haven't placed a vote, right? If the day ended in 2 hours instead of 26 hours, who do you think should get the noose?
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In fact, as we approach the mid-point of the Phase here, I think everyone should be placing votes. The more people make votes and move votes, the more information can be gleaned from looking at the voting record later. I don't want 2 or 3 active players to pick a lynch, and then see a bunch of lurkers tack on their votes at the last minute. (proverbial last minute, even if not literal last minute)
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On March 07 2018 06:25 rsoultin wrote:
Vivax is prob the best counterwagon to Tubesock. There's a very real possibility that I may change my vote, but as I said...of the afker's, his absence is the most alignment indicative.
##vote: Vivax
On March 07 2018 06:25 rsoultin wrote:
Who are the other scum with me, then?
Would have to be chaoser or Kelsier, right? That's why Vivax is the afker you want to lynch. lol
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On March 07 2018 06:32 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 06:04 n00bKing wrote:On March 07 2018 05:57 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 07 2018 05:53 n00bKing wrote:On March 07 2018 05:48 MoosyDoosy wrote:
If anything, rsoultin changes her reads to conform to Damdred's over time. Considering how hard Damdred townread rsoultin I think she's metagaming him to seem townie and working around his reads because she knows he can read her.
If rsoul were scum and "knows damdred can read her" then why would she draw his eyes to her by making him her early scumread and pushing for his lynch? Metagame. Damdred said this is what he'd expect from town rsoultin so she might be doing it as scum to make him she's town. *shrug* You can ask Damdred whether he thinks that's something she's likely to try. Anyway, she seems willing to engage with you (even while simultaneously saying there's no way you could get her lynched) so feel free to keep needling her (she's at least giving us plenty of content to try and nail her with later, if she IS scum) but don't let yourself fall into the "tunnel" she talked about. You haven't placed a vote, right? If the day ended in 2 hours instead of 26 hours, who do you think should get the noose? meh. I'm holding my vote until Damdred comes back and responds to my thoughts. But I am probably going to vote for Tubesock here. There aren't really any other convincing arguments for me other than him and my own suspicions on rsoultin.
For anyone to purposely be "holding their vote" at this stage just seems dumb to me. If Tubesock would be your lynch, put your vote on him. If it would be someone else, put your vote on them instead. If you're Town, you should want the voting record to be reflective of people's intentions. I'm tired of reading about what you kinda/sorta/maybe want to do, except that you have to talk to daddy damdred first.
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On March 07 2018 07:25 darthfoley wrote:
Like I can see myself having a similar weak scum read on someone who did what I did. At least to stir the pot a bit cuz at the time she made that read, the thread was a "poop on tubesock" fest iirc
You're *this* close, darthfoley...
You're *THIS* close to making me just call him "poopsock" from here on out. lol
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On March 07 2018 10:18 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 05:50 AMG wrote:On March 06 2018 16:47 Tubesock wrote:On March 06 2018 16:45 AMG wrote:
Tubesock, I implied you were mafia by your reaction and said someone you thought was scummy was almost certainly town.. you dont think either of those warrants further investigation or a response? Nope. I think the idea that only scum get salty is hilarious. You also don't seem to understand why I was "pricky". Do you understand what I didn't like about n00bking? I'm trying to wrap my head around what you took issue with with n00bking prior to this post. He says talking strategy is fine early, and he does so, but discussing a d2 mass claim is a discussion better had on day 2, I assume, because there are still things to unfold before day 2, I.e the lynch and the night actions. I don't see hypocracy or inconsistency in what n00bking is saying. Since this happened and there's been a pretty big pushback on your attempt to cast shade on him, you're now townreading him because he's too nitpicky with finer details, so he's now town. Is that an accurate summation of your read progression on n00bking? And now if noobking is town, where to from here, who is your next prime suspect? This is what I said: Show nested quote +On March 06 2018 09:15 Tubesock wrote:
Hola
I like the idea of the coordinating medic shot via vote. A lot more information.
I am not sure about the mass claiming bit D2 though. I think it would be better for town to have the medics be unknown for a couple cycles before they claim. It was more a response to Fecalfeast's idea of mass claiming D2, but it also advises town what I think town should do concerning mass claiming. In fact I wasn't specific because I understand the reality that when things change town players will start thinking it's a good idea/time and then it will present itself. The sentence prior even shows uncertainty about D2 claiming which would indicate I'm open to it if the conditions are right. So, he then zeros in on my D2 comment and is just "No discussion of D2" and then goes on about the setup and pregame conversation. Like he nitpicked 1 thing, and ignored the rest. I don't think he thought about my post. I thought that was scummy. Like I don't think wanting to just talk about D1 mass claiming is inconsistent. But my post answers that question also, so he wasn't really looking to talk about it. Like he wanted to PUSH the mass claim D1. He even later tries to throw shade on Holyflare for shutting down claim talk. Clearly people are not into claiming D1. As far as the nitpicky bit goes. In my experience, I'll say something weird and then people jump on my ass for it. Then a mafia sees thread sentiment and nitpicks to "lead" the charge. In this case I think n00b did that first so wasn't following thread sentiment. So, he's acting more like a Rels used to, rather than an opportunistic mafiosa.
Yeah...I really "zeroed in" on your D2 comment....your post was 3 lines long, and one of the lines was "Hola."
Then one of the lines was what I considered to be simple common sense, and didn't really need stating. Sorry for not quoting the part I thought was common sense and saying "Look at this, this is common sense!" So yeah, I focused on 1 thing, and ignored the rest. I focused on the 1 thing I actually thought needed anything said about it. Think that's pretty normal. And I didn't "throw shade" at HF for trying to shut down the claim conversation. I only said that anyone who has something to say about it should still do so, and not let themselves be silenced by him.
How is it that you've come back and made more posts, without responding to the post where I went from just talking with you, to actually voting against you? I've already expressed that I didn't love the fact that the moment you switched from answering each post that came in, to disappearing for 16 hours or whatever it was, was also the moment I went from just having a conversation with you, to actually putting a vote on you. Could that have just been coincidence? Yeah, maybe. But it doesn't look like it, when upon your return to the thread, you STILL never acknowledge that post in any way, shape, or form. Did that part of Page 12 just magically escape your notice? "splain yourself."
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Re: What Tubesock liked about Prpl's filter
On March 07 2018 10:45 Tubesock wrote:
I like how he did it too. As mafia I don't think he would have defended me like he did. I think he would have been more firm in either the defense or attack.
So being wishy-washy is a Town trait now? There's nothing to like about Prpl's play, in my opinion. All he's done is claim Cop, be vague and non-committal about whether he thinks you should be pushed, be vague and non-committal about suspicions that AMG's reads feel forced, and talk about a SK role that we know isn't in the game. I never like it when people say something like "I'm interested in seeing where this goes though." Just means they have no plans of making it go somewhere themselves...so I think to myself....then what good are you?
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On March 07 2018 11:12 AMG wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 10:58 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 07 2018 10:53 AMG wrote:
You don't feel like mafia.
My vote is in the wrong place.
##Unvote What about what Tubesock said makes you think he's not Mafia? Hes not squirming like mafia do. That and hes advocating a 'wait and see' approach on the only other wagon to himself.... which is a person who hasn't even posted yet. From that Ill extrapolate that they're either mafia together, or Tubesock isn't mafia
Too big a leap in logic, for my tastes. Advocating "wait and see" with 20 hours left in the Phase isn't like saying it with 2 hours left. And whether a Mafia player squirms under pressure or not just depends on the circumstances, and their own personality type.
Only the Mafia players know coming into the game that there are other players in the game who don't want to see them lynched. This makes them tougher to lynch than Town players, and can sometimes result in them being "cool under pressure." Some Town players will totally spaz in that same position, because they know nobody has their back. Other Town players can themselves be "cool under pressure" because they have a measure of boldness that comes from being certain of their own innocence.
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On March 07 2018 15:14 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 14:58 n00bKing wrote:On March 07 2018 10:18 Tubesock wrote:On March 07 2018 05:50 AMG wrote:On March 06 2018 16:47 Tubesock wrote:On March 06 2018 16:45 AMG wrote:
Tubesock, I implied you were mafia by your reaction and said someone you thought was scummy was almost certainly town.. you dont think either of those warrants further investigation or a response? Nope. I think the idea that only scum get salty is hilarious. You also don't seem to understand why I was "pricky". Do you understand what I didn't like about n00bking? I'm trying to wrap my head around what you took issue with with n00bking prior to this post. He says talking strategy is fine early, and he does so, but discussing a d2 mass claim is a discussion better had on day 2, I assume, because there are still things to unfold before day 2, I.e the lynch and the night actions. I don't see hypocracy or inconsistency in what n00bking is saying. Since this happened and there's been a pretty big pushback on your attempt to cast shade on him, you're now townreading him because he's too nitpicky with finer details, so he's now town. Is that an accurate summation of your read progression on n00bking? And now if noobking is town, where to from here, who is your next prime suspect? This is what I said: On March 06 2018 09:15 Tubesock wrote:
Hola
I like the idea of the coordinating medic shot via vote. A lot more information.
I am not sure about the mass claiming bit D2 though. I think it would be better for town to have the medics be unknown for a couple cycles before they claim. It was more a response to Fecalfeast's idea of mass claiming D2, but it also advises town what I think town should do concerning mass claiming. In fact I wasn't specific because I understand the reality that when things change town players will start thinking it's a good idea/time and then it will present itself. The sentence prior even shows uncertainty about D2 claiming which would indicate I'm open to it if the conditions are right. So, he then zeros in on my D2 comment and is just "No discussion of D2" and then goes on about the setup and pregame conversation. Like he nitpicked 1 thing, and ignored the rest. I don't think he thought about my post. I thought that was scummy. Like I don't think wanting to just talk about D1 mass claiming is inconsistent. But my post answers that question also, so he wasn't really looking to talk about it. Like he wanted to PUSH the mass claim D1. He even later tries to throw shade on Holyflare for shutting down claim talk. Clearly people are not into claiming D1. As far as the nitpicky bit goes. In my experience, I'll say something weird and then people jump on my ass for it. Then a mafia sees thread sentiment and nitpicks to "lead" the charge. In this case I think n00b did that first so wasn't following thread sentiment. So, he's acting more like a Rels used to, rather than an opportunistic mafiosa. Yeah...I really "zeroed in" on your D2 comment....your post was 3 lines long, and one of the lines was "Hola." Then one of the lines was what I considered to be simple common sense, and didn't really need stating. Sorry for not quoting the part I thought was common sense and saying "Look at this, this is common sense!" So yeah, I focused on 1 thing, and ignored the rest. I focused on the 1 thing I actually thought needed anything said about it. Think that's pretty normal. And I didn't "throw shade" at HF for trying to shut down the claim conversation. I only said that anyone who has something to say about it should still do so, and not let themselves be silenced by him. How is it that you've come back and made more posts, without responding to the post where I went from just talking with you, to actually voting against you? I've already expressed that I didn't love the fact that the moment you switched from answering each post that came in, to disappearing for 16 hours or whatever it was, was also the moment I went from just having a conversation with you, to actually putting a vote on you. Could that have just been coincidence? Yeah, maybe. But it doesn't look like it, when upon your return to the thread, you STILL never acknowledge that post in any way, shape, or form. Did that part of Page 12 just magically escape your notice? "splain yourself." Lol, I already said why I didn’t interact with AMG at first and even he later said I’m not coherent In any way so clearly it isn’t just me. Maybe at the time I didn’t have the energy because I was doing something else too? As for 16 hours afk. Hahahaha think of two activities that generally use up 8 hours at a time. My sincere apologies that my gaming time doesn’t align with your desires your highness.
You said why you didn't interact with AMG over the issue of whether players being prickly is scum-indicative. You did NOT answer to this:
On March 06 2018 18:01 n00bKing wrote:
even if you thought you had "no common ground" with him about what makes players prickly (and even if you thought discussing the disagreement with him wouldn't help you determine whether he actually sees it differently, or is just pretending to) you could have just talked to him about something else instead. Like...you could have talked to him about the thing you were "more interested in." ME! Why not ask him why he has the townread on me? He might share something that changes your mind. Or you might share something that changes his. Having NO desire to discuss me with someone who takes the opposite opinion just makes it look like you already know my allegiance.
Would talking to him about that also have been pointless? And if so, why?
RE: 16 hours, I said the timing of your disappearance could be coincidental. But the timing of your disappearance LOOKS BAD. You're talking, talking, talking, answering, answering, answering...until the moment I say you've made a post that makes me willing to actually go from just talking with you, to voting against you. That was when you vanished for a third of the Phase. It doesn't help me think better of you.
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On March 07 2018 12:39 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 12:34 Tubesock wrote:
I don't understand why you towned Damdred for that "Good man, it won't be me (but it was)" comment. Can you expand that please? Add this question too to the list of things Tube seems like he's just throwing out trying to make stick. I'm going to leave to finish my essay I actually have to do by tonight but I want feedback from other people on what they think. If anyone legitimately wants me to explain this read though also, just say so and I will when I get back.
Sure, I'll raise my hand for this one. If you think explaining it will be counter-productive for the Town, say that. Otherwise...stop avoiding Tubesock's question?
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Meanwhile,
Does anyone agree or disagree with rsoul's assessment that the silence from Vivax and Kelsier (and especially Vivax) is more alignment-indicative than it is for chaoser? Does anyone even know chaoser?
I think it's also worth discussing whether any of those players are strong Town assets *when* they are Town. For example, let's say people generally agree that Vivax is more likely than the average player, to no-show a thread while Scum. If it just so happens that he had done it as Town this time, would we be shooting ourselves in the foot in a major way by mislynching him, and losing the services of Town Vivax, cuz maybe he was going to show up later and be a Scum-wrecking machine? Or is it big upside and only small downside? And then same question regarding our other 2 no-shows.
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On March 07 2018 15:44 Tubesock wrote:
Uh it was pretty clear you were going to vote me so the timing wasn’t relevant at all.
It wasn't clear to ME that I was going to vote against you, until you made the post that I identified as being the one that actually caused me to place the vote.
Tubesock wrote:
I’ll even go a step further, you’re not going to vote anyone else today.
lol, guess we'll see, huh?
Meanwhile, you're still not answering the question. Third time: In addition to not wanting to talk to AMG about whether it's scum-indicative for players to be prickly, why did you also not want to talk to him about me, the thing you claimed to be "more interested in" at the time, and a topic where you knew he had a differing opinion? Why would you not want to bounce your thoughts about me off of other players, unless you already knew my allegiance?
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Who should be the D1 lynch, Tubesock?
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On March 07 2018 17:34 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 15:42 n00bKing wrote:On March 07 2018 12:39 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 07 2018 12:34 Tubesock wrote:
I don't understand why you towned Damdred for that "Good man, it won't be me (but it was)" comment. Can you expand that please? Add this question too to the list of things Tube seems like he's just throwing out trying to make stick. I'm going to leave to finish my essay I actually have to do by tonight but I want feedback from other people on what they think. If anyone legitimately wants me to explain this read though also, just say so and I will when I get back. Sure, I'll raise my hand for this one. If you think explaining it will be counter-productive for the Town, say that. Otherwise...stop avoiding Tubesock's question? The post was really light and jokey and metagamey and toney which are all things I see town Damdred doing. It's a tonal read so that's about as good as the description gets but I've actually played a fair amount of games with Damdred and this seems town Damdred.
Then I don't understand the need to conceal this answer, when Tubesock asks you about it.
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On March 07 2018 16:58 n00bKing wrote:
Who should be the D1 lynch, Tubesock?
Well, I guess Tubesock either left or "left" before he could answer. But I'm off to bed, so if anyone sees Tubesock tomorrow before I've made it back to the thread, please remind him of this question.
Because we know that when he returned to the thread, it was without scumreads, and then he said this to Moosy:
On March 07 2018 12:23 Tubesock wrote:
To some extent, shouldn't I be doing whatever I can to find an alternative wagon? you even say "Tubesock do something productive" so isn't looking for another wagon outside of me "productive"?
And the answer to those questions is...yes. But it didn't look to me like he actually *did* it, so check on his progress tomorrow. The more uncertainty there is about who will be the D1 lynch, the more value there is in getting Tubesock's answer about who he believes it *should* be. So the sooner it happens, the better.
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On March 07 2018 18:36 rsoultin wrote:
I'm short I understand talking to him but not why his opinion has any bearing on your vote?
Pretty sure I tried this already. Good luck!
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On March 07 2018 20:03 AMG wrote:
this wagon on Vivax is a farce. Lynching someone who hasn't posted when you've got plenty of stuff in the thread to work with is just lazy.
He flips scum, what do we learn? nada. squat. I mean yay we got a scum, but its just dumb ass luck if he flips scum. Conversely he flips town, everyone on his wagon says 'welp he was afk, had it coming', and we chuck an entire cycle away.
Lots of bad reasoning here, imo. Lynching an afk player at the end of D1 is not the same as chucking the cycle away. All of the D1 discussion and voting still happened (and analysis of it can still have value) even if you settle on a player who hasn't posted, at the end The only thing that would marginalize the value of the D1 discussion is if everyone knew throughout the phase that ultimately an afk player will be lynched. That definitely has not been the case in this game. Additionally, for a player who isn't posting to flip scum in this game may not be "just dumb ass luck." While rsoul said that no-showing the game thread was more scum-indicative for Vivax and Kelsier than it is for chaoser, I think no-showing the game thread can be scum-indicative in THIS game, for ANY player, regardless of that player's personal history, given the fact that so much of the pre-game discussion revolved around the idea that the setup is heavily town-favored. Under those conditions, any player who pulled a scum role could be more likely to no-show the main thread than they ordinarily would be.
Speaking of rsoul's comment that no-showing the thread is more alignment-indicative for Vivax and Kelsier than it is for chaoser...if that's how she felt, then after HF says Vivax is actually prone to going afk as either alignment, and Vixax makes an appearance, and rsoul takes her vote off of Vivax, I don't know why she wouldn't just go to the next stop, and put the vote on Kelsier. How is that not the natural next step in the progression/thought process? And it's not like as if she's even passing over that logical next step in favor of some other logical vote. She's passing over the logical next step in favor of just not voting. When she asked Moosy who her scummates would be and I said that one of them would almost have to be Kelsier or chaoser, I was at least half-joking, and maybe more like 90% joking. But everything that's happened since then has sure followed that script, so if one of those players eventually flips red, I think she would need additional scrutiny.
Based on the current vote count, I'm gonna go read the DF filter. Back soon.
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Ok, reading the DF filter didn't take long, but it sounds like it's about to grow, so I guess I'll wait a bit.
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Alright HF, you've said that DF's filter is "all just filler posts and no actual want to solve anything" and followed up later by saying "No drive, probably mafia." But we have plenty of players in the game who have shown no drive, or have put in no effort to solve anything, or have been no help. Kelsier and chaoser have been no help. prpl has been no help. I feel like Tubesock has been no help. When we're 46 hours into the game, I think you'd have to categorize Damdred (and his mighty single-page filter) as having been little or no help. If I lump DF into that category, it means that fully half of the other 12 players in the game with me have been no help.
So I don't think DF's lack of drive automatically makes him a good lynch, unless you feel like a Town DF *would* show an actual "want to solve anything" and *would* show "drive." Is that the case? Because again, unless there's reason for you to expect more than this from a Town DF, then I don't see anything that makes this particular mole the one that needs whacking.
His posting style is pretty careless. The filter is filled with him either repeating something he already said, or repeating something someone else already said.
An example of him repeating himself is this post:
On March 07 2018 07:27 darthfoley wrote:
n00b/rsoultin/AMG/Damdred is my town list ATM
He'd already named all 4 of those players as townreads. No need for a new, distinct post that merely says the same thing.
And an example of him repeating another player is this:
On March 08 2018 04:49 darthfoley wrote:
FF's filter reads like he's heavily influenced by the slightest amount of thread sentiment.
he's talked about lynching prplhz, rsoultin, vivax, Tubesock, me with basically no explanation.
Which is basically everyone that has had any pressure on him/herself today. I'm fine scum reading him
That post might as well be a copy & paste of Moosy's "King of Wagons" thing. (By the way, I think "Wagon King" would sound way cooler than "King of Wagons." Calls to mind the Witch King. Good stuff.)
DF also parroted my verbiage almost exactly, when talking about prpl's "wishy washyness."
I'd expect a little more caution and a little more mindfulness than this, from most scum players. If a scum player wasn't going to pay any more attention than this, why bother even making the posts? Just be yet another afk dude instead.
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I'll be around for nearly another hour before needing to leave, if anyone wants to hash any topics out, or otherwise convince me that my vote needs to be moved before I go.
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EPT
