On June 08 2017 06:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Watcher is an OP and dumb role. And survivor is retarded, just as retarded as jester.
Agree. I've come to think that the only good 3P role are roles that make their player to their own thing and don't disturb the outside town / mafia game too much. So an objective that don't interact with town / scum wincon; when the 3P win they leave the game instantly and the game continues normally for town / scum; and they lose if town or scum wins before the 3P manage to achieve their objective.
On the other hand on the Koshi post I love several things. An event mid-game when it's usually the point where people start becoming super inactive (IE after the first two days but before LYLO / LYLO-1). No 100% conf possible. No game decided by mechanics instead of talking. High KPs for both sides at the start of the game. All of this is good shit
On June 15 2017 02:45 disformation wrote: hmm... seems ruxxar used to play some time ago / back in the day. anyone got an idea how he used to play or something? If he only played a few games and was fairly townbaity that might explain things...
On June 15 2017 03:17 Fecalfeast wrote: I forgot rayn was in this game lol what were the points against him?
He made 1 sentence in 1 post defending Koshi. The issue is he said he didn't think HF/Disform's arguements made Koshi mafia. HF/Disform never claimed that but cased him as 3p.
On June 15 2017 03:34 Eversince wrote: @Xata- Why is Rayn a good lynch? Somebody sell me on this. I'm not seeing it at all
If you were not seeing the points against rayn at all, why did you feel the need to answer FF's question just before ?
On June 15 2017 05:14 Koshi wrote: Anyway. I also don't see why Ruxxar is mafia. More likely lynchbait.
It's not because somebody types things you think are weird/disagree with that he is mafia. You have to look at motive and the intention to solve the game within a person his capabilities.
^ This.
Now people are killing him because he said his top town read was Sicklucker.
Who is voting him for that reason?
That was the impression I got.
The closest I could find was you pressuring him over the read and other people calling him out for too easily believing SL's cop claim.
Looking over, the main reason people are scum reading him is over saying that he liked Disfo's post, which was kind of a strange post to like because it had no content.
But I don't think this is a bad response at all for the post that he made:
On June 14 2017 22:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 14 2017 16:32 Skynx wrote:
On June 14 2017 15:57 ruXxar wrote:
On June 14 2017 15:38 disformation wrote: good morning everyone!
omw to work yada yada etc.
agreeing with ruxxar that green colour is best colour. dont understand why xata is voting rayn. hf had first post so hes basically conf. town. might sheep onto hoshi later. df's "wooohooo" post sounded a bit fake, i conclude he still had a bad mood.
hrre is hoping for a slow day at work.
Strong first post. I like
You like this post? Can you elaborate why or you just felt like posting?
Cuz he agrees that green is good, good shit there. First post conf town, goos shit there. Xata and HF both voted in same pattern but he sheeps one but doesn't understand the other?? Comment on DF is fine but he can easily back down from anything that soft so it doesn't really matter.
Very good post here.
It's not the content as much as the tone and structure. Lighthearted tone with not too much polish/concern.
I'd give that a slight town read.
I don't think he's mafia. He has a confidence to his posts that I like.
He not only believed sl's cop claim (which was made a post after sl said the tl meta is to piss people off and get reads) he used the cop claim to say we should lynch into ever and then sl if ever comes up green.
He then has the inconsistency that koshi explained for him giving him an easy out. This is circumstantial of course and not that strong.
He then comes into the thread after a wagon has formed on koshi and says 'i read koshis filter he's scum' with no explanation until he was pressured into giving one.
He then (after the votes are on him) goes on to say that sicklucker who has like 4 posts with 0 content is his top town because scum wouldn't fake claim cop as though he hadn't noticed that everyone took it as a joke.
On June 14 2017 15:38 disformation wrote: good morning everyone!
omw to work yada yada etc.
agreeing with ruxxar that green colour is best colour. dont understand why xata is voting rayn. hf had first post so hes basically conf. town. might sheep onto hoshi later. df's "wooohooo" post sounded a bit fake, i conclude he still had a bad mood.
On June 15 2017 04:41 Fecalfeast wrote: I eagerly await your explanation of sicklucker as your top town. I understand phone posting is shitty so i will wait for a keyboard
This one is easy to explain.
Hard claiming cop with a positive scum read is suicide if you are mafia.
If in whatever circumstance eversince is exposed to be town, then sicklucker would be an autolynch.
I think that's a fast way to throw the game as mafia.
It's not a play I would make as mafia, therefore I think he is town.
All these 3 posts are more likely coming from a genuine townie than a mafia failing to blend in.
What you are not taking into account is that he is extremely townie as town. I played or obsed probably all his games and he was always super logical and always trying. Here he is not. Here he makes easy posts.
My thoughts catching up. Will vote marv tomorrow if he still haven't posted. Otherwise ruxxar or Eversince. + Show Spoiler +
ruxxar: - "I like it" on a disfo post that didn't deserve any of it. Not that it deserved scum points. But nothing to like in it. - buying SL's red check. Propose we lynch Eversince, then SL if she flips green. No game vision. Gullible.
Skynx: - good first post on ruxxar's post where he said "I liked it".
Koshi: - didn't understand Skynx' post on ruxxar when it was the best post in the thread yet. Uncharacteristic. Bad. - called rayn's attack on bad disfo a defense. Bad. - good post on BTBT being bad - a Koshi town post "mm Vivax might be mafia" out of nowhere - p35. Lock town.
disfo: - pretty gullible. That's scummy. Bought SL's red check. - had a throwaway read on Koshi, HF picked it up, and he had a weird reason to vote Koshi. Weird stuff all around.
rayn: - picked up that above stuff on disfo. Good.
Vivax: - entered the thread liking Skynx' post. Good. - liking the annul's post I liked. Good.
BTDT: - called Koshi town for no reason - turned around on voting Koshi when he decided HF was serious on Koshi - townie posts though (p 21)
annul: - calling the HF vs Koshi as it is pretty likely to be (HF screwing around) => good
DF: - also understanding Skynx post + doing his own thing (p 18). Dunno why he doesn't like Xata though. Didnt find anything Xata did so far was AI. - nice post explaining why Xata is scummy. Convincing too, the bit where Xata missed Skynx' logic.
Damdred: - weird that he starts playing calling some people scummy, when usually he's super unsure D1 and tries to build a "no-lynch" list rather than the opposite. - though he's thinking about the game as a whole. Having a "rayn scum means Koshi no scum" mindset. Even though that mindset is bad, especially D1, it's townie.
FF: - liking the question to ruxxar. Is evolving his read based on what's happening. Doubting too, then getting back to it.
Eversince: - answering FF's questions about what are the things against rayn, then saying she doesn't see the things against rayn. Weird. Maybe scum and entered the thread with an answer to FF to have an easy good looking first post.
Grack: - weird, against sentiment reads, but I can follow them. Good.
Xata: - good post on ruxxar.
rayn: - LOL butthurt defense in his huge post when it was 100% uneeded, just for the ego. Pretty likely town.
On June 15 2017 12:05 darthfoley wrote: Anyone else wonder why Rels was like 24 town reads with caveats to every read? How can you call Xata's post on ruXxar "good' when he just copy and pasted what like 4 other people have already pointed out?
On June 15 2017 12:07 darthfoley wrote: Like how can Rels view my case on Xatalos as convincing and pretty good while also town reading Xatalos for a thread sentiment case on ruXxar?
Don't like Rels so far
It was a chronological list of things of interest while I was catching up. When I found something on a player that was already on the list I just put another thing under the list of that player. So: DF: - also understanding Skynx post + doing his own thing (p 18). Dunno why he doesn't like Xata though. Didnt find anything Xata did so far was AI. - nice post explaining why Xata is scummy. Convincing too, the bit where Xata missed Skynx' logic.
On June 15 2017 18:49 disformation wrote: @Rels: was looking at your reeds list again. not sure why you want to lynch marv, ruxxar and eversince over me from that. you also forgot to mention AMG, who also hasnt posted yet.
Well I don't know for sure where I'm at. Besides that I would lynch ruxxar if I had to decide right now, the way he's doing filters right now is similar to what he did in Himalaya or Gaiden, can't remember which - rsoul caught him off that before dying. Didn't even know AMG was in the game. I mentionned marv 'cause he did exactly that in Really Small Mafia II as scum. Did nothing until he tryharded a little bit near the end of D1. Usually as town he has no problem playing.
On June 16 2017 07:05 Xatalos wrote: Holy f****. Looks like a pile formed on me.
I'll try to read the recent events since I have a bit of time now until EOD.
Could someone explain why SL is being voted? Also this vote situation looks pretty odd. I'd expect it to be a more heated votecount if we were on the right tracks but votes are all over the place..
palmar is spite voting me. no one other then hf and vivax think im scum. Im actively trying to save you right now too I suggest you vote annul with me if you want to live
That seems like a fine place to park my vote for now. I'll be checking what annul has done in the recent hours.
Didn't you just say you were OK voting SL to save you and annul
On June 14 2017 23:41 Holyflare wrote: I like vivax's inconsistency pick up but his annul read is stating the obvious and I seriously get the feeling that a mafia vivax could have just got lucky picking up on the inconsistency.
But that's maximum fear wifom for no reason because I still like it.
True. If mafia gives us townreads like that I am ok with not lynching them for a cycle.
On June 14 2017 23:43 Koshi wrote: Town TW town for calling fefe hilariously suspicious. Fefe town for being ok with that and believing it. Disformation town for not jumping on my wagon while thinking my opening was potential mafia. Also serious bait was hilarious, big laughs were had. Beentheredonethat is more likely overeager “wrong” town than active pushing a wrong agenda mafia. And his aggressiveness continues over multiple pages, he is now quite confirmed town. Damdred is town because his list post is very close to what I could think. Just like his read on me it comes from town and not mafia. Darthfoley town because pushed the game forward with his Xatalos/Ruxxar posts. And overall is playing really well. Overall playing style he can do it as mafia but I don’t think he is doing it here as mafia.
Town with minus points. Skynx started out a bit out of place. But picked it up very well. Sassy answer on btdt and loads of action. Vivax made a pretty good read on Annul. But I don’t like his playstyle atm
Null Holyflare his vote on me is incorrect. I don’t like how his gameplan feels set up.
so you are okay with keeping him around if he is mafia if he "gives town reads like that" -- implying you agree with his town read on me to such a strong extent that even if he is mafia under HF's WIFOM scenario you feel like he is beneficial to keep around................... and then like 2 minutes later you post a reads post and i am not even listed at all?
Don't see a town motivation on annul's vote on Xata then begging Xata to vote SL. EITHER he prefers to lynch SL, then voting SL at that point puts him above him with 1 hour to see what happens OR he prefers Xata, but why the begging to Xata so he votes SL then Doesn't make any sense. Scum. Very likely
On June 16 2017 07:23 Rels wrote: Don't see a town motivation on annul's vote on Xata then begging Xata to vote SL. EITHER he prefers to lynch SL, then voting SL at that point puts him above him with 1 hour to see what happens OR he prefers Xata, but why the begging to Xata so he votes SL then Doesn't make any sense. Scum. Very likely
Not voted (7): Rels, Damdred, raynpelikoneet, AMG, marvellosity, Grackaroni, Eversince
Half the Sky is getting ready to throw Xatalos out of her whiskey bar. Day 1 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
The voting thread is here and only votes in the voting thread will be counted.
annul could vote Xata or SL. He votes Xata 'cause it's a better defense + he just said rtight now that he scumread Xata more than SL. Then Xata shows up. and annul asks Xata to vote SL and says he would switch:
On June 16 2017 07:08 annul wrote: xatalos revote to sicklucker and i will do the same, putting him in the lead
On June 16 2017 07:05 Xatalos wrote: Holy f****. Looks like a pile formed on me.
I'll try to read the recent events since I have a bit of time now until EOD.
Could someone explain why SL is being voted? Also this vote situation looks pretty odd. I'd expect it to be a more heated votecount if we were on the right tracks but votes are all over the place..
palmar is spite voting me. no one other then hf and vivax think im scum. Im actively trying to save you right now too I suggest you vote annul with me if you want to live
That seems like a fine place to park my vote for now. I'll be checking what annul has done in the recent hours.
he has lurked not called me scum then tried to get you to vote me for pure survival
no shit, of course i would rather not die even if it means someone else dies instead of my preferred target
like that is priority #1: make sure i do not die
but why do you prefer me over xata?
i dont, its survival. darthfoley is on xata and he has said he suspects me and wants me to die.
if it is 5-4 xata/me then darth has hammer on me with a swap, and i was trying to prevent that
but it looks like i failed at that
So you're saying this post is a fake and you didn't plan to switch on SL, ytou were just trying to get Xata to NOT vote you ?
On June 16 2017 07:08 annul wrote: xatalos revote to sicklucker and i will do the same, putting him in the lead
On June 16 2017 07:23 Rels wrote: Don't see a town motivation on annul's vote on Xata then begging Xata to vote SL. EITHER he prefers to lynch SL, then voting SL at that point puts him above him with 1 hour to see what happens OR he prefers Xata, but why the begging to Xata so he votes SL then Doesn't make any sense. Scum. Very likely
Not voted (7): Rels, Damdred, raynpelikoneet, AMG, marvellosity, Grackaroni, Eversince
Half the Sky is getting ready to throw Xatalos out of her whiskey bar. Day 1 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
The voting thread is here and only votes in the voting thread will be counted.
annul could vote Xata or SL. He votes Xata 'cause it's a better defense + he just said rtight now that he scumread Xata more than SL. Then Xata shows up. and annul asks Xata to vote SL and says he would switch:
On June 16 2017 07:08 annul wrote: xatalos revote to sicklucker and i will do the same, putting him in the lead
???
Yes cause he doesn't want to die. He'll be happy putting anyone else in the lead. A fine reasoning if you ask me.
No it doesn't. He asked his scumread (Xata) to vote another wagon to his townread (SL) and says he will switch to it.
On June 16 2017 07:29 Rels wrote: No it doesn't. He asked his scumread (Xata) to vote another wagon to his townread (SL) and says he will switch to it.
On June 16 2017 07:29 Xatalos wrote: Good observation. Dunno why the heck the thought process would be to vote his more townread over his more scumread there.
because i assumed you would be attempting to save yourself, and the move you would make (onto me) would put me in the bad position i described already. it was anticipating your play. if i could get you onto SL instead, i would not have to be at risk.
it is entirely self preservation.
So you were trying to trick him into believing that you would switch to SL ? When it wasn't your intention ?
On June 16 2017 07:33 annul wrote: no, if he switched i actually would too, because he could always switch onto me anyway once he figured out i was bluffing if i was bluffing.
like the math is sound. it is ENTIRELY a self preservation move. i do not want to do this; i would prefer other lynches
On June 16 2017 07:33 annul wrote: no, if he switched i actually would too, because he could always switch onto me anyway once he figured out i was bluffing if i was bluffing.
like the math is sound. it is ENTIRELY a self preservation move. i do not want to do this; i would prefer other lynches
mmmmmmmmm
No the math fucking doesn't. YES you're one vote less with the switch compared to the main wagon. BUT NOW INSTEAD OF LYNCHING YOUR SCUMREAD IF THERE ARE NO OTHER VOTES YOU RE LYNCHING YOUR TOWNREAD.
On June 16 2017 07:33 annul wrote: no, if he switched i actually would too, because he could always switch onto me anyway once he figured out i was bluffing if i was bluffing.
like the math is sound. it is ENTIRELY a self preservation move. i do not want to do this; i would prefer other lynches
mmmmmmmmm
No the math fucking doesn't. YES you're one vote less with the switch compared to the main wagon. BUT NOW INSTEAD OF LYNCHING YOUR SCUMREAD IF THERE ARE NO OTHER VOTES YOU RE LYNCHING YOUR TOWNREAD.
in "without switch" you will have xatalos ultimately move onto me making it 5-5 (his best chance to survive), and then darth will hammer me like he said he wanted to earlier. do not misrepresent the game-state yo
The game state is that your best shot at killing scum would have been wasted with your "switch" plan. Looks like you can thank Xata for not taking it
On June 16 2017 07:45 annul wrote: the best shot at killing scum is 0% if i am lynched and me working to stop that is priority number one
well it doesn't make any fucking sense. Your had a "switch" plan JUST because a random dude (DF) apparently said he would switch to you maybe. THERE IS A MILLION OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS GAME INCLUDING PEOPLE ON THE THIRD WAGON. Doesn't make sense to calculate like that
On June 16 2017 07:23 Rels wrote: Don't see a town motivation on annul's vote on Xata then begging Xata to vote SL. EITHER he prefers to lynch SL, then voting SL at that point puts him above him with 1 hour to see what happens OR he prefers Xata, but why the begging to Xata so he votes SL then Doesn't make any sense. Scum. Very likely
Not voted (7): Rels, Damdred, raynpelikoneet, AMG, marvellosity, Grackaroni, Eversince
Half the Sky is getting ready to throw Xatalos out of her whiskey bar. Day 1 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
The voting thread is here and only votes in the voting thread will be counted.
annul could vote Xata or SL. He votes Xata 'cause it's a better defense + he just said rtight now that he scumread Xata more than SL. Then Xata shows up. and annul asks Xata to vote SL and says he would switch:
On June 16 2017 07:50 Fecalfeast wrote: That post from ever makes me think she's town btw. Mafia especially newb mafia could easily just wait this one out.
On June 16 2017 07:50 annul wrote: i find it interesting though that darth was on me all phase and the MINUTE he sees me go up 6-5 without him having to hammer swap onto me hes "okay staying on xata"
i mean id rather him vote xata than me but i just find that funny
meh that was it. DF is town though. Dont remember why but he had good posts probably.
On June 17 2017 01:48 Eversince wrote: On my EoD stuff:
I ask for reads and SL: "vote with me if you think I'm town" Nothing else. HF: vote for SL and loosely explains why. Nothings else.
I missed Rels big qoute post on Xata but I don't think it would have mattered.
Since I was left with "Blindly follow this because it's the one I want" I just blindly consolidated.
SL claiming I have him as a top town read at the time is funny. And expecting me to make a vote based off reads that are almost 40 pg old, after I openly admit that my reads are outdated and I have no time to read to adjust them. Ooff to me.
HF claiming I say he's the only one to give input is misconstrued. Other than Rels post that I missed, he was the only one who said the reason for why I should vote with him. He just failed to do it for any of the other two wagons.
wow that makes Eversince town. My big quote was about annul. So to those thinking ES was faking entering the thread (and Ithought that too befor ethat post), is she faked that she wouldn't mess up the names there. That means the entering the thread was innocent at the very least.
yo. Sorry to have been AFK - a friend I had not seen since a long time came to Paris and we spent the weekend together. I'm finally free but I'm kinda drunk and enhausted so I'm just gonna vote myself and catch up tomrrow
but Grack showing he remembered a random post from Palmar means it's likely he's either scum with marv, or not scum. Cause him remembering this random post means he read Palmar's filter (so he's town) or this post stucked to him 'cause marv is his partner. Most likely
as I'm catching up I see people saying Xata's wagon was pure. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. But it's not logical to assume it is. I know that if I was scum I would probably have bussed D1 given the pressure on Xata.
On June 19 2017 19:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: Catching up what i can before work. Reading filters later.
Disformation is probably town after all. I find it hard to believe Xatalos claim a read check on his teammate. Although it's not impossible i find it very very unlikely.
On June 16 2017 07:23 Rels wrote: Don't see a town motivation on annul's vote on Xata then begging Xata to vote SL. EITHER he prefers to lynch SL, then voting SL at that point puts him above him with 1 hour to see what happens OR he prefers Xata, but why the begging to Xata so he votes SL then Doesn't make any sense. Scum. Very likely
There is basically "nothing wrong" with it, it is just perfect "case" to make as mafia as you hit two birds at once. You protect your teammate AND you have a reasonable reason to vote for the other wagon.
Well if there is "nothing wrong" with it, this is just a nice story.
On June 19 2017 19:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: Here is another post:
On June 17 2017 01:48 Eversince wrote: On my EoD stuff:
I ask for reads and SL: "vote with me if you think I'm town" Nothing else. HF: vote for SL and loosely explains why. Nothings else.
I missed Rels big qoute post on Xata but I don't think it would have mattered.
Since I was left with "Blindly follow this because it's the one I want" I just blindly consolidated.
SL claiming I have him as a top town read at the time is funny. And expecting me to make a vote based off reads that are almost 40 pg old, after I openly admit that my reads are outdated and I have no time to read to adjust them. Ooff to me.
HF claiming I say he's the only one to give input is misconstrued. Other than Rels post that I missed, he was the only one who said the reason for why I should vote with him. He just failed to do it for any of the other two wagons.
wow that makes Eversince town. My big quote was about annul. So to those thinking ES was faking entering the thread (and Ithought that too befor ethat post), is she faked that she wouldn't mess up the names there. That means the entering the thread was innocent at the very least.
Look at what this post says. "Eversince is town because people are calling her mafia for a reason that does not make her mafia". Now while the second bolded part is true, the green part doesn't make any sense. The second bolded part makes Eversince's entering the thread makes it not alignment indigative, yet Rels jumps to a conclusion that it makes her town for no real reason. This is what i call a BS read.
That's stretched. Yep, that's a town post. I had a thought, then I realized it was not as strong as I thought, then I posted it. You saying I did that to fabricate a "BS read" when the more likely explanation is that I'm town and I don't think about what I post as much as when I'm scum is stretched..
On June 19 2017 19:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Another problem with Rels' case on annul is that annul voting for Xatalos is actually begging Xatalos to vote for annul and not sicklucker as he claims.
On June 16 2017 07:08 annul wrote: xatalos revote to sicklucker and i will do the same, putting him in the lead
On June 19 2017 21:23 beentheredonethat wrote: (are you talking D1? Yep, then I wasted my vote. Nevertheless I'm stressing that I would've voted Xata over Annul. Annul appeared meh to me and not particularly townie but in a world where I have to decide between them of course I'd go with Xata)
I wish I had been there to hammer Xata into oblivion -.- I'd be confirmed as fuck now
The feels ... I have the fucking exact same feeling ... I was there and I doubted and I could have switched but I didn't.
On June 20 2017 00:06 ruXxar wrote: On my way home from work, so I'll get some more thoughts out later, but just to leave you with my preferred lynch order:
Grack. Rels. Maybe ES.
It's just super obvious to lynch people on the town train before people on the scum train.
If you try to convince me or town that there was only 1 mafia on the annul train I'll be nominating you for the Darwin Award.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
So, are you claiming it is normal for marv to completely vanish from TL due to rolling mafia? Because if you are not you don't have a leg to stand on.
On June 20 2017 06:58 Rels wrote: but Grack showing he remembered a random post from Palmar means it's likely he's either scum with marv, or not scum. Cause him remembering this random post means he read Palmar's filter (so he's town) or this post stucked to him 'cause marv is his partner. Most likely
Since when does reading filters/remembering things make someone town?
means they're trying to solve the game, or faking it. And my experience playing with scum!Grack don't make me think he's the kind of scum to reread a filter he doesn't need to
On June 20 2017 07:40 Rels wrote: Chezitwo you know marv well ?
The /in was his last post on TL.
so ? If he was scum he wouldn't post again for that exact reason. Do you know him well or not ?
Well enough. And if you think marv would stop posting on TL for a month because he rolled mafia then I don't know what to tell you.
well he ruined a game because he wanted to be replaced and didn't want to play scum. When Arta told him it was not possible he refused to continue playing.
On June 20 2017 07:40 Rels wrote: Chezitwo you know marv well ?
The /in was his last post on TL.
so ? If he was scum he wouldn't post again for that exact reason. Do you know him well or not ?
Well enough. And if you think marv would stop posting on TL for a month because he rolled mafia then I don't know what to tell you.
well he ruined a game because he wanted to be replaced and didn't want to play scum. When Arta told him it was not possible he refused to continue playing.
Yes, that happened once. So? Did he stop posting in all the other areas on TL during all of this? I seriously doubt it.
dunno. But it just clicked that you're actually marv's replacement. So it could make sense that you're defending him like that for no reason.
On June 16 2017 09:54 Blazinghand wrote: Most people here haven't played with Annul. He doesn't play much these days. I've played a game or two with him, and I know some guys like HolyFlare, Palmar, Rels, marv, Grack, Vivax, etc have been around enough they likely played with him as well. Anyone else claiming to have played with him or to know his meta is likely talking out of their ass.
On June 20 2017 07:55 Rels wrote: rayn, why is it super unlikely that Xata forged a check on his partner ?
Because it's fucking retarded as the claim is supposed to either draw out another cop claim or kill the "red check" before you die. Not to make sure mafia gets 100% lynched whatever the town decides....
don't see why it is retarded. Seems like the odds were against Xata winning the lynch from the beginning so it's the kind of WIFOM play scum can do.
On June 20 2017 08:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't even know why you are talking about this since you don't even think disformation is mafia...
'cause I don't like you thinking that when I don't. It's not logical to think that it makes disfo super likely town on its own. So I thought maybe there was nothing to it I didn't see. But there is not.
On June 20 2017 08:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't even know why you are talking about this since you don't even think disformation is mafia...
'cause I don't like you thinking that when I don't. It's not logical to think that it makes disfo super likely town on its own. So I thought maybe there was nothing to it I didn't see. But there is not.
Of course it does. If you have followed the thread sentiment at all you would know that the people in this game who needed town credit less than disformation are/were exactly darthfoley. If what you suggested would be true there is no reason to make the "check" on disformation because literally anyone else who is mafia is a better target for that WIFOM than disformation is. Basically noone in the game thought he is mafia other than me. Why does disformation need the town credit (which would be the reason to claim a check on a scumbuddy) over anyone else in the mafia team?
You're thinking about it in a backward way. Xata was SCUM and you can't use a scum actions to prove someone is town just because "it wouldn't make sense that it did that ???". And wasn't it you that said exactly that in a QT recently ?
On June 20 2017 08:05 Rels wrote: )= fucking doc not doing their job
If Doc didn't save DF last night, I wouldn't count on one existing at all. There's zero chance that was a vigi shot, everyone who even gave the thread a cursory glance liked DF. I can say this, as someone who gave the thread a cursory glance.
can't bitch about the balance without knowing the setup. But we better have some way to overcome that 2 KP / night.
On June 20 2017 08:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't even know why you are talking about this since you don't even think disformation is mafia...
'cause I don't like you thinking that when I don't. It's not logical to think that it makes disfo super likely town on its own. So I thought maybe there was nothing to it I didn't see. But there is not.
Of course it does. If you have followed the thread sentiment at all you would know that the people in this game who needed town credit less than disformation are/were exactly darthfoley. If what you suggested would be true there is no reason to make the "check" on disformation because literally anyone else who is mafia is a better target for that WIFOM than disformation is. Basically noone in the game thought he is mafia other than me. Why does disformation need the town credit (which would be the reason to claim a check on a scumbuddy) over anyone else in the mafia team?
You're thinking about it in a backward way. Xata was SCUM and you can't use a scum actions to prove someone is town just because "it wouldn't make sense that it did that ???". And wasn't it you that said exactly that in a QT recently ?
No. I have talked about situations where someone makes a case where "this dude is mafia because this flipped mafia guy ignored him all game (or some other crap like called him town for very bad reasons)".
This is completely different because this situation with Xatalos is a mafia plan and when it is a mafia plan then mafia tries to achieve something with it. If the plan was to claim a check on a scumbuddy - then disformation (now 100% knowing df's alignment) the worst fucking person in the mafia team to claim the check on.
That's literally the opposite situation what you are trying to make it look like i am saying. If you can't understand it then you are just stupid for some reason, or intentionally ignoring the obvious.
First, "now 100% knowing df's alignement" is not interesting 'cause you didn't know that at the time. Second, that don't make sense. You are doing EXACTLY what you said you wouldn't be doing. Actually, not exactly, but in the essense that's what you're doing it. Cause you don't know what is the scum team. You don't know their plan. Maybe they thought disfo was the best dude to fake a check in 'cause he was in no risk to be lynched. Maybe they were just trying to get a counter claim. It doesn't make sense to conclude that disfo is town from that. Cause maybe that was the goal - and that goal, that you said was not reachable, you're ironically reaching it by townreading disfo.
getting tired so I will stop reading filters. I think Grack is town for the post I quoted earlier + that post where he called out the overall sentiement that scum had to be in annul's wagon. I thought the same thing reading those last pages. ##Vote raynpelikoneet Get smart or die.
On June 20 2017 16:37 disformation wrote: i really didnt like rels spending his time near eod throwing shade in my direction. like he was knowing i was not gonna get shot. though i as scum would have waited until after the day post. wish he spend that time looking for scum. though obv biased. will reread grack and rels once more later and decide then. maybe ill just vote rels to have a second wagon.
On June 20 2017 16:47 ruXxar wrote: I'm curious too see who's gonna push for a second train.
I have a feeling rels might try to get something going on some low profile towns people. Maybe rayn like he was alluding to yesterday.
Why ? + you know who I have a feeling is scum, I had a list yesterday. Gotta read filters to see if I stand by them or not but you know where my mind is right now
On June 20 2017 16:50 disformation wrote: @lazyhand: in the nsm game that ended yesterday you had a fairly big filter, that was pretty town. this game i feel like you stopped playing at a certain point and just started trolling.
On June 19 2017 10:10 Blazinghand wrote: I'm awake and highly American. We should vote btdt and write cases on him and see how angry he gets it's s 10/10 experience
this is kinda the feeling I had reading BH filter yesterday. Not exactly this, that's a good find, but the fact that he didn't push the game forward with all his BTDT posts.
On June 20 2017 16:37 disformation wrote: i really didnt like rels spending his time near eod throwing shade in my direction. like he was knowing i was not gonna get shot. though i as scum would have waited until after the day post. wish he spend that time looking for scum. though obv biased. will reread grack and rels once more later and decide then. maybe ill just vote rels to have a second wagon.
That never happened. I don't think you're scum.
Good morning ^^. Have you changed your mind about lynching grack?
On June 20 2017 16:50 disformation wrote: @lazyhand: in the nsm game that ended yesterday you had a fairly big filter, that was pretty town. this game i feel like you stopped playing at a certain point and just started trolling.
also from the nsm:
On June 07 2017 03:45 Blazinghand wrote: Jeez I've kinda been a grouch to your btdt sorry
Gonna take a break then come back
this game:
On June 19 2017 10:10 Blazinghand wrote: I'm awake and highly American. We should vote btdt and write cases on him and see how angry he gets it's s 10/10 experience
this is kinda the feeling I had reading BH filter yesterday. Not exactly this, that's a good find, but the fact that he didn't push the game forward with all his BTDT posts.
vote me or screw off
* call me scum and don't vote me * tells me to vote him I wanna scumread him
On June 20 2017 07:39 Rels wrote: rayn / ruxxar / SL / Chezitwo / Skynx ? That could make some sense
does the realization that chezitwo replaced marv change your read on him? also would like some reasons for those reads.
yep, he's back to total null. I had this huge feeling that he had TMI defending marv like that, but it turns out that since he's his replacement he has TMI on his slot. p: Rest are feelings I had catching up, will see if they hold when I read filters during my lunch break.
On June 20 2017 08:26 Rels wrote: getting tired so I will stop reading filters. I think Grack is town for the post I quoted earlier + that post where he called out the overall sentiement that scum had to be in annul's wagon. I thought the same thing reading those last pages. ##Vote raynpelikoneet Get smart or die.
No Rels, you don't get to do this.
First of all, your post on Eversince. There is a reason you started with this line:
I do not care you later figured out you were wrong in this conclusion. It doesn't matter. It matters that your original conclusion is completely illogical and there is always a reason you posted it in the first place, because that's what people do, even if they don't think things through. So i am trying to figure out why you originally came to this conclusion. Here's what i can think of: 1) You fucked up because you know Eversince's alignment (mafia) and made a bad judgement call of what people do think about the post. 2) You fucked up because you know Eversince's alignment (town) and because TMI you came to "correct conclusion". 3) You originally posted that as town because ?????
Now you haven't explained why (3) ? Obviously you're gonna claim that's the case regardless of your alignment. Saying "i corrected myself later" doesn't cut it because i don't care about it. I care about what was your original thought process, why did you originally think it makes Eversince town, because as i said, there IS a reason why you originally posted what you did.
I have explained 3. It's literally the part you erased after the part you quoted. I didn't "figure out I was wrong in this conclusion", I just thought it was less strong than I initially thought. I still think it's a small town indicator.
On June 20 2017 18:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Secondly there is this disformation thing. The fact is all about this game is what mafia would or wouldn't likely do. You are literally trying to discredit my read JUST by saying "you can't assume what mafia would/wouldn't do". That's fucking retarded since that's literally what this game is about, and nothing else, since by your logic any alignment can post anything they ever want and you can never figure out anything based on what people say/do. Basically, i don't care if you disagree with my conclusion, you are allowed to do that. But you're not really doing that, you're saying i am mafia because of me coming to a perfectly logical conclusion. That's pretty fucking fishy Rels, and i happen to know you do these shit cases on me as mafia, it happens on almost every game you're mafia in. I don't fucking know how to explain this in words that other people can understand, and why what Rels says is super duper dumb and incorrect, but please read it with thought. There is nothing unsmart in what i said. There is everything unsmart and wrong in what Rels says here.
Yep I didn't expect you to make that conclusion as town. Literally my first thought reading the red check + disfo's reaction was thinking about if it made disfo town or not. And it does not. And that you can't see it is bothering me. And why are you talking to me, but in the middle switching to talking to others ?
On June 20 2017 18:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now let's believe Rels is town and actually believes in what he says on what i talked about above. Then there is this thing:
On June 17 2017 12:08 Eversince wrote: I'm no town leader and if I'm alive on D3 I will be utterly useless again. So this is my gift for you town. I'm 99.65535% convinced of it.
SL, TW, Xata, Grack and X(Solve X for game) is the mafia team.
Everything is here. The connections, the soft defenses, the meaningless casting of doubt, the organization between them interlocks and really is apparent at the lynch. There is only 1 wildcard if there is 5 mafia.
This is a post Eversince made. Since you, Rels, are so against the line of thinking "what would mafia most likely do" why aren't you interested at all in this post?? It doesn't make any sense since she made a fucking post that is literally filled with nothing but "this is what i think mafia is doing". Why do you treat Eversince differently than you treat me when i approach the game from the same perspective?
On June 15 2017 06:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Fecalfeast is likely town. I liked the approach to darthfoley's opening from him. I recall FF being more "serious" from get go as mafia, at least the last game i played with him. It's like he wasn't trying to make anything out of nothing (which DF's "inconsistency" pretty much was).
This is my early read on Fecalfeast. This is me saying "i think if Fecalfeast is mafia he most likely would have reacted differently to df's opening". Again this is the same thing. Funnily enough this is in the pretty much ONLY post i had made when Rels called me town!!! So i really really have to ask, why does Rels treat me differently than he treats me when i approach the game from same perspective than i do????
This whole stuff above is insane also because you can go to any game i have played ever and this is always how i form my reads. Rels not only fails to realize i am doing what i always do as town, but also even treats myself in a different manner when it comes to different people.
I hold you to a much higher standard than ES. Your FF meta read has nothing to do with your disfo-is-not-partner-with-Xata read. And the fact that you're accusing me so much instead of probing me is bothering me. As town you're asking questions and laying traps.
On June 20 2017 18:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Then there is the Chezitwo read. Rels literally said Chezitwo is mafia because of what marv has done some other time. The he backpedals from the read with:
I had this huge feeling that he had TMI defending marv like that, but it turns out that since he's his replacement he has TMI on his slot.
You really couldn't "figure this out" earlier??? REALLY?!?!? And you're fucking calling me unsmart....
Your point ?
On June 20 2017 18:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: And then there is the annnul vote thing. I don't literally care what annul said about his Xatalos vote. I care about the fact that it is factually incorrect a vote on Xatalos will most likely get him to vote for sicklucker, regardless of what annul thinks. And by that, it makes your conclusion (and vote) extremely stupid - i am talking about the reasoning here, not that you voted for annul in itself. (I don't really blame anyone for voting for annul just because they voted for him.) Because it is true. Because if annul was mafia and wanted Xatalos to vote for sicklucker you don't fucking play around "blackmailing him", you just vote for sicklucker instead and try to plead to Xatalos. That is what mafia would do most likely. You should be smart enough to realize that.
Makes no sense. annul votes Xata. annul makes a post begging Xata to vote SL. I call out that post. That's plain and simple. You're getting complicated with a story that looks pretty but is only one possibility. It is not logical.
On June 20 2017 18:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##vote Rels
Now here's what's gonna happen if you're town Rels:
You stop calling me unsmart because if i am unsmart in how i have played and it makes me mafia then you're 100x mafia. If you think i am mafia at least TRY to make a fucking case based on what i have done. You're gonna explain these things. Then you're gonna get onto your level because right now i will need people to work with me and those people i am looking into are you/Palmar/disformation/Chezitwo/Ruxxar. But mostly you and Palmar, and sadly right now i think you're probably mafia and Palmar is not playing. Maybe he will wake up from his weekend hibernation soon.
I'm gonna push you until one of us is dead OR you start solving the game instead of just posting weird things and asking pointless questions.
On June 20 2017 18:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: btdt why is disformation mafia?
He spent the last 2-3 pages with painting a beautiful "btdt is scum" narrative, culminating in a "NEVER UNVOTE HERE" fake-rage so he doesn't have to end up on Grack.
Disagree. On the contrary disfo's angry posts cements my townread on him. I would expect him to be more ironic and mocking as scum when he knows he has much more power than you.
On June 20 2017 19:05 Rels wrote: I have explained 3. It's literally the part you erased after the part you quoted. I didn't "figure out I was wrong in this conclusion", I just thought it was less strong than I initially thought. I still think it's a small town indicator.
Why is it a town indicator?
'cause in the narrative where she's scum with Xata and came to save him EOD1, it's more likely that she was fake AFK and faked entering the thread to save him. That what was said against her.
On June 16 2017 07:33 annul wrote: no, if he switched i actually would too, because he could always switch onto me anyway once he figured out i was bluffing if i was bluffing.
like the math is sound. it is ENTIRELY a self preservation move. i do not want to do this; i would prefer other lynches
mmmmmmmmm
No the math fucking doesn't. YES you're one vote less with the switch compared to the main wagon. BUT NOW INSTEAD OF LYNCHING YOUR SCUMREAD IF THERE ARE NO OTHER VOTES YOU RE LYNCHING YOUR TOWNREAD.
On June 20 2017 16:37 disformation wrote: i really didnt like rels spending his time near eod throwing shade in my direction. like he was knowing i was not gonna get shot. though i as scum would have waited until after the day post. wish he spend that time looking for scum. though obv biased. will reread grack and rels once more later and decide then. maybe ill just vote rels to have a second wagon.
That never happened. I don't think you're scum.
Good morning ^^. Have you changed your mind about lynching grack?
On June 20 2017 19:05 Rels wrote: I have explained 3. It's literally the part you erased after the part you quoted. I didn't "figure out I was wrong in this conclusion", I just thought it was less strong than I initially thought. I still think it's a small town indicator.
Why is it a town indicator?
'cause in the narrative where she's scum with Xata and came to save him EOD1, it's more likely that she was fake AFK and faked entering the thread to save him. That what was said against her.
I still don't understand this. You basically just went back in circles and said the reasoning is the same you earlier said is not actually a reasoning to call him town for it.
Can you explain it in words i can understand? We have concluded she probably didn't fake her entering the thread. But why is misreading/misremembering something a towntell, even slightest? Because i don't see why.
'cause it was a tense EOD, and if I made a big post pushing the balance towards or against her partner she would have remember. Maybe. As said it is not super strong, just an indicator.
On June 20 2017 19:49 beentheredonethat wrote: I'm on page 11. I have to admit that his N1 looks very good, especially asking the vig shot to be directed towards Xata. However, Xata doesn't die, so either vig didn't shoot or mafia has a protection mechanic or the roleblock got lucky? Hm, speculations. I'd say scum has a protective mechanic
looooool never scum. BTDT is never ever scum. This is him solving the game right there. Speculating that the scumteam might have a prot role 'cause it fits with his belief that disfo is scum. I'm never ever voting him. Sry BTDT but I'm not convinced at all by your case. Apart from point 1 which is what annoyed me about disfo at the beginning. But the rest is him being disfo. Doesn't make him scum.
On June 15 2017 12:05 darthfoley wrote: Anyone else wonder why Rels was like 24 town reads with caveats to every read? How can you call Xata's post on ruXxar "good' when he just copy and pasted what like 4 other people have already pointed out?
On June 15 2017 12:07 darthfoley wrote: Like how can Rels view my case on Xatalos as convincing and pretty good while also town reading Xatalos for a thread sentiment case on ruXxar?
Don't like Rels so far
It was a chronological list of things of interest while I was catching up. When I found something on a player that was already on the list I just put another thing under the list of that player. So: DF: - also understanding Skynx post + doing his own thing (p 18). Dunno why he doesn't like Xata though. Didnt find anything Xata did so far was AI. - nice post explaining why Xata is scummy. Convincing too, the bit where Xata missed Skynx' logic.
this post. it is all over the place, starts from nothing and ends up on nothing. idk how to explain it more clearly.
On June 17 2017 01:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: Meh i am bad... The post doesnt actually explain anything (in how he got where he did), it just repeats what he did...
On June 17 2017 01:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: But Rels has nothing to give us so far. Have you, disformation? Havev you, Eversince?
Why, after you realized your reason to scumrad me is wrong, I continue to be a main scumread ? You've played plenty of games with me where I give nothing early. Why the call for me being killed just after ?
On June 17 2017 03:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Xatalos is mafia too. Shoot Xatalos, or Rels.. but Xatalos.
On June 17 2017 03:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: rels sicklucker xatalos disformation
sicklucker being this motivated for a D1 lynch is pretty weird. + he didn't react the way I would expect him to HF pushing him. Remained strangely calm and collected for him while still trying to get annul lynched. Usually that's where he becomes super townie, by having sprayed of posts that are strange and genius at the same time. Didn't happened there. Didn't happen everywhere in his filter.
On June 16 2017 07:58 Holyflare wrote: just realise that sicklucker just said annul has towny sounding posts just now and has absolutely no real reason to scum read annul but is voting him over xata who he doesn't even realise doesn't scum read rayn
i said very slightly convincing plz...
And HF is killed N1 despite being a likely doc protect. + it might be pretty ironic for me to say that against him. But at EOD1 I doubted my vote hardcore because of some annul posts and almsot switched to Xata. SL might be the best player at reading those situations, but he didn't switch, and didn't even show it made him think. Like, I would have expected him to play at least like he described I did:
On June 16 2017 11:50 darthfoley wrote: Rels also looks problematic given his enter the thread, procede to not vote then voted as the 5th on annul to tie it 5-5.
Not like I Rels out from a mile away
na rels is alright his logic was good he looked hesitant at the end too
+ after that I become one of his main target despite being one of his main townread for no reason other than "let's lynch in the annul wagon".
I think I wanna lynch SL. What's good too is that if he's town it should become obvious.
On June 15 2017 00:12 Tumblewood wrote: so far i'm thinking ruxxar and disfo have basically dumbtelled by taking sl's claim at fake value. unless i am actually operating on way less irony than them
Don't think they are dumbtelled town for believing a claim. They are more likely town if SL is mafia.
or what do you mean?
believing the claim requires not realizing that sl just made that up. and if rux or disfo are mafia then they should figure that out because it doesn't reconcile at all with the information that they have. i think there's a corner case of this where they're mafia with eversince, but i figure they are still probably town. and if sl is mafia... idk, at least disfo is kinda scrubby and might take it as a legit fakeclaim
this is kinda townie
Nothing else stands out of to me as town or scum. The activity is bad ofc though. I want him to play more.
On June 20 2017 20:58 disformation wrote: really need to learn to play like tw or bh and just give no fucks. i actually think i did a somewhat acceptable job of that this game b4 today.
On June 17 2017 00:54 Skynx wrote: Anyway for sure 1 scum between sl/fefe/rux. They all look equally bad dunno where to start. Grack ninja vote is terrible. Eversince and Rels keep going down in ranks but i havent read their eod properly yet. Other terrible votes off train are btdt and TW. Maybe Vivax aswell but i think he is town. My plan is to also ignore HF and Palmar for a bit. They can be any alignment and so far pretty useless, too high level stuff for me. VA can go suck a dick. rayn is a mystery
I think tomorrow we can start the lynch with grack or any of first trio that started the train.
On June 16 2017 07:23 Rels wrote: Don't see a town motivation on annul's vote on Xata then begging Xata to vote SL. EITHER he prefers to lynch SL, then voting SL at that point puts him above him with 1 hour to see what happens OR he prefers Xata, but why the begging to Xata so he votes SL then Doesn't make any sense. Scum. Very likely
On June 16 2017 07:45 Eversince wrote: This is going to make me look like garbage.
I haven't read anything since pg 35ish. Give me the the rough of what's happen between now and then for Xata, Annul, and SL.
I don't have time to fact check so my vote is entirely blind at this point.
Don't know where to begin...
On June 20 2017 02:24 Skynx wrote: Everyone on the train had terrible reasons for voting annul. Makes it kinda harder to analyze, scum could be all there tbf. No one had an outstanding read on Xata either, mainly this and that. All 6 I'd lynch 1 by 1 except Ruxxar maybe as he's picking up the game.
On June 20 2017 02:30 Skynx wrote: One thing I noted tho, when it was 6-5 to annul, Eversince came late into thread and claimed he's clueless with that post but he took another 12 mins to think about who to vote. From a town point, if you're clueless, making the train 6-6 shouldn't really bother you but if you're scum you're literally offering your RB on a silver platter.
On June 20 2017 02:47 Skynx wrote: I feel like few votes on him and Grack will start spilling all the beans.
And this looks like he started fabricating a vote analyze but didn't know how to do it. There is nothing there. Like the bolded above, he points that every reasonning is bad and he wants to lynch every player. No game solving there.
On June 20 2017 21:13 disformation wrote: tbh if you (rels) grack and es for whatever reason are town, town is kinda of into the woodworks atm. though my vc brain tells me there has to be scum on annul trying to safe their rb and the last 3 ppl (all of which had bleh xata reads) are a good place to look into unfortunately all 3 are (well you are active now) super inactive so it is really hard to decide
which is also why i was looking into everyone again earlier
well it's pretty likely there were scums on annul. But it doesn't make sense that they all are.
On June 20 2017 21:20 disformation wrote: take a look at grack's filter though. 2 pages and 1 post. so it should be really fast.
I did yesterday. There are two things that make me think he's town. And nothing that makes me think he's scum, other than the laziness. But I know he can be lazy as town so it's not scummy.
sicklucker is super likely scum. And if he's not, pressuring him like that will make him become town. But I doubt it since it didn't happen when HF pushed him D1.
On June 20 2017 16:50 disformation wrote: @lazyhand: in the nsm game that ended yesterday you had a fairly big filter, that was pretty town. this game i feel like you stopped playing at a certain point and just started trolling.
also from the nsm:
On June 07 2017 03:45 Blazinghand wrote: Jeez I've kinda been a grouch to your btdt sorry
Gonna take a break then come back
this game:
On June 19 2017 10:10 Blazinghand wrote: I'm awake and highly American. We should vote btdt and write cases on him and see how angry he gets it's s 10/10 experience
this is kinda the feeling I had reading BH filter yesterday. Not exactly this, that's a good find, but the fact that he didn't push the game forward with all his BTDT posts.
On June 20 2017 21:27 disformation wrote: why bh over plammar/va?
On June 20 2017 08:11 Rels wrote: BH didn't convince me. Spending all this time arguing with BTDT that went nowhere
On June 20 2017 17:09 Rels wrote:
On June 20 2017 16:50 disformation wrote: @lazyhand: in the nsm game that ended yesterday you had a fairly big filter, that was pretty town. this game i feel like you stopped playing at a certain point and just started trolling.
also from the nsm:
On June 07 2017 03:45 Blazinghand wrote: Jeez I've kinda been a grouch to your btdt sorry
Gonna take a break then come back
this game:
On June 19 2017 10:10 Blazinghand wrote: I'm awake and highly American. We should vote btdt and write cases on him and see how angry he gets it's s 10/10 experience
this is kinda the feeling I had reading BH filter yesterday. Not exactly this, that's a good find, but the fact that he didn't push the game forward with all his BTDT posts.
What did Palmar / VA did to be scummy ?
palmar has 0 presence / game solving posts. he had some weird unexplained reads ages ago. i dont remember anything from va, outside of a fefe push. though i think he had a decent point?
dunno, didn't filter them yet 'cause I didn't find anything scumy from them while I was reading the thread yesterday. Still have ruxxar to filter tonight. Palmar is going to be lynched at some point if he continues playing like that. From what I've seen he can absolutely be town. Or scum, but it proves nothing. VA, it's not my priority to think about him because I'm keeping in my head the "VA is town" post from rayn. If rayn is scum I think it makes VA town, because of how rayn works. If VA is scum, in his mindset that "VA is town" becomes a weakness against rayn. So rayn scum makes VA town.
@BTDT we're not lynching Palmar 'cause he did nothing scummy and some other people did. Filter length is something to consider but is not an absolute measure.
On June 20 2017 22:38 disformation wrote: tbh. my gut likes palmar/sl/skynx +1 more on annul
What happened to grack? Is he town now?
+1 more on annul?
You sure went from confident in grack/rels to +1 on annul.
Are you trying to scumread disfo ? Or are you trying to see his thought process ? If it's the latter, why are you asking when it's quite clear from the last few pages ?
On June 20 2017 22:38 disformation wrote: tbh. my gut likes palmar/sl/skynx +1 more on annul
What happened to grack? Is he town now?
+1 more on annul?
You sure went from confident in grack/rels to +1 on annul.
yes. my reads change as i go back to review the contents of the game and interact with other players. shocking i know. yes i am way less confident in rels being scum. might be grack might be es. think lynching grack first is fine.
You think there was only 2 mafia on the annul vote?
You think it's obvious than 3+ scum were on the 7 people annul wagon ? When it's terrifying to take stances like that as scum ? Not taking anything else into account, maybe there are 3 or 4 scums in the 7 people coutner wagon to a scum. But it's not likely. Scum will usually spread their votes, and it's fucking scary to vote on something you KNOW is wrong and is gonna be revealed, since it's the D1 vote. So I don't understand how you can have the mindset than it's super likely than 3 or 4 scums were on annul.
On June 20 2017 22:56 VayneAuthority wrote: is btdt usually like that? never played with him.
because pushing the fake cop check (aka they make us decide between lynching scum/scum and its suspicious if he stays alive, in addition to him being townie to begin with) is absolutely insane.
That's borderline policy lynch unless that's just his usual
don't really remember. I know I was his coach in his first scumgame, and he was pretty ballsy, but this is even stronger than I remember him doing. But look at what I've posted about him and his mindset towards disfo. It makes him town.
On June 20 2017 22:40 Rels wrote: @BTDT we're not lynching Palmar 'cause he did nothing scummy and some other people did. Filter length is something to consider but is not an absolute measure.
He did nothing townie, either. And a super bad reason to not lynch an obvious lurker. He managed to vote each cycle. He even comes in every now and then, throw accusations at people, doesn't follow up AND he freely admits to neither read nor care about this game.
I don't know why we don't lynch (or shoot) such a player.
We lynch him when we have no-one than we really think is scum.
On June 20 2017 20:54 Rels wrote: sicklucker being this motivated for a D1 lynch is pretty weird. + he didn't react the way I would expect him to HF pushing him. Remained strangely calm and collected for him while still trying to get annul lynched. Usually that's where he becomes super townie, by having sprayed of posts that are strange and genius at the same time. Didn't happened there. Didn't happen everywhere in his filter.
On June 16 2017 07:58 Holyflare wrote: just realise that sicklucker just said annul has towny sounding posts just now and has absolutely no real reason to scum read annul but is voting him over xata who he doesn't even realise doesn't scum read rayn
i said very slightly convincing plz...
And HF is killed N1 despite being a likely doc protect. + it might be pretty ironic for me to say that against him. But at EOD1 I doubted my vote hardcore because of some annul posts and almsot switched to Xata. SL might be the best player at reading those situations, but he didn't switch, and didn't even show it made him think. Like, I would have expected him to play at least like he described I did:
On June 16 2017 11:50 darthfoley wrote: Rels also looks problematic given his enter the thread, procede to not vote then voted as the 5th on annul to tie it 5-5.
Not like I Rels out from a mile away
na rels is alright his logic was good he looked hesitant at the end too
+ after that I become one of his main target despite being one of his main townread for no reason other than "let's lynch in the annul wagon".
I think I wanna lynch SL. What's good too is that if he's town it should become obvious.
On June 16 2017 07:58 Holyflare wrote: just realise that sicklucker just said annul has towny sounding posts just now and has absolutely no real reason to scum read annul but is voting him over xata who he doesn't even realise doesn't scum read rayn
On June 16 2017 08:16 sicklucker wrote: to be fair tho I mostly drove the close lynch. and I know im town so from my perspective I dont think xata necessary has to be mafia. but I completely understand people who think he and I am from what happened I might think the same
This is posted after the lynch. You don't even think it makes him mafia. A contested lynch means shit all. It's mafias job to make lynches mean nothing. It could be two towns, one mafia one town, anything. You haven't once used any information from it to make the reads nonsense you're posting.
You have me in a lynch list with xatalos who you are now calling mafia despite me trying to also hammer him. You have really really bad reads in this list. You have Eversince who has been pushed by vivax for eternity and myself since the flip, no evaluation.
You take bull shit posts and turn it into bigger bull shit reads and have no game sense. This is not the town SL I know that is solving conspiracy theories. This is an sl who more than likely saw his buddy xatalos up for lynch and fabricated nonsense to save him. When was the last time you tried on a day 1? When was there a time you've ever given a shit enough for a day 1 lynch to matter so much over a really thin town read on xata? Never, that's when.
I will make people see the light. Fiery vengeance will rain down upon you.
On June 17 2017 00:54 Skynx wrote: Anyway for sure 1 scum between sl/fefe/rux. They all look equally bad dunno where to start. Grack ninja vote is terrible. Eversince and Rels keep going down in ranks but i havent read their eod properly yet. Other terrible votes off train are btdt and TW. Maybe Vivax aswell but i think he is town. My plan is to also ignore HF and Palmar for a bit. They can be any alignment and so far pretty useless, too high level stuff for me. VA can go suck a dick. rayn is a mystery
I think tomorrow we can start the lynch with grack or any of first trio that started the train.
On June 15 2017 03:49 disformation wrote: @xata: ruxxar gave his reason to vote koshi later on.
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote: I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.
##vote koshi
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Wow i got him boys.
Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
but as fefe pointed out:
On June 15 2017 02:40 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote: I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.
##vote koshi
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Wow i got him boys.
Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
I actually like this explanation. Sorta wish you said this instead of just 'read Koshi's filter decided he's mafia' as now I'm suspicious you went back to read his filter after my post to find a post that is suspect.
For the second part:
People generally think this is scummy and it's not. It just generates suspicion because people don't like to see unjustified reads.
Mafia won't ever just carelessly throw out a scum read without giving any thought about how they are going to defend it unless they are under some kind of heavy pressure to produce a read.
Also I liked Ruxxar's reasoning for his Koshi vote.
On June 15 2017 03:49 disformation wrote: @xata: ruxxar gave his reason to vote koshi later on.
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote: I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.
##vote koshi
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Wow i got him boys.
Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
but as fefe pointed out:
On June 15 2017 02:40 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote: I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.
##vote koshi
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Wow i got him boys.
Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
I actually like this explanation. Sorta wish you said this instead of just 'read Koshi's filter decided he's mafia' as now I'm suspicious you went back to read his filter after my post to find a post that is suspect.
For the second part:
People generally think this is scummy and it's not. It just generates suspicion because people don't like to see unjustified reads.
Mafia won't ever just carelessly throw out a scum read without giving any thought about how they are going to defend it unless they are under some kind of heavy pressure to produce a read.
Also I liked Ruxxar's reasoning for his Koshi vote.
who do you think is scum?
I'm kinda looking at you tbh.
Look at me as much as you like, but why?
I'm mostly just looking for someone kinda in the middle blending in.
Disfo:
On June 15 2017 07:36 Grackaroni wrote: I like Rayn too though. And I'm ok with a Disfo lynch.
HF:
On June 16 2017 07:32 Grackaroni wrote: Holy flare seems like a very good vote. He's being ridiculously over the top trying to push this SL lynch.
I haven't liked either of his Vivax/Koshi pushes. And he dragged the Vivax one out for the hell of it.
On June 19 2017 03:36 Palmar wrote: Ill figure out why we're all so happy together tomorrow
Where've you been PALMAR?
Scummy scum scum.
"I'm ok with". "Seems like". There's 0 commitment to anything here. Just superficial non-sense without any substance. So obviously he followed up and actually tried to push his scum reads? Nope. Well, at least he voted for his scum reads? Nope.
It's like a total non-commitment to any of his "reads" and just screams "I'm just trying to blend in". And thats the total effort he's put into scumhunting the whole game.
On June 19 2017 22:42 darthfoley wrote: I hope tonight's actions provide some clarity to the inactives and shit. I thoroughly expect me and disformation to die, but hopefully the medic can save one of us.
17 people left in the game, probably 12 or 13v4 depending if there's 3p. Scum get 2 kp tonight, and there might be 3p KP. So hopefully medic/jk/whatever can save someone. At least we have 2 checks after tonight without a roleblock
Theres probably 3 or 4 town roles. Hopefully they don't get shot tonight. I would hate to die before revealing all that I know
On June 21 2017 00:13 VayneAuthority wrote: have I read rayn's filter extensively? no not really. Players like that open themselves up to being late game vetted. I have no reason to look at him right now. Obviously a lot of rayn's alignment depends on yours, gamewise and due to the night kills. There is a veteran presence on the scum team I would expect, especially after that vivax NK. I don't feel like he was universally TR or particularly worrisome, so he either got NK'd out of respect or because he was right.
I have always operated from a mechanical standpoint, I don't do convos
On June 21 2017 02:20 Grackaroni wrote: Vayneauthority was completely disconnected from the thread at the end of the day, dropping a role playing post and then calling out Skynx while making no attempt to convince people of his read.
On June 20 2017 08:26 Rels wrote: getting tired so I will stop reading filters. I think Grack is town for the post I quoted earlier + that post where he called out the overall sentiement that scum had to be in annul's wagon. I thought the same thing reading those last pages. ##Vote raynpelikoneet Get smart or die.
I might be blind but I can't find any Grack quotes in your filter before this post.
On June 20 2017 06:58 Rels wrote: but Grack showing he remembered a random post from Palmar means it's likely he's either scum with marv, or not scum. Cause him remembering this random post means he read Palmar's filter (so he's town) or this post stucked to him 'cause marv is his partner. Most likely
On June 20 2017 20:54 Rels wrote: sicklucker being this motivated for a D1 lynch is pretty weird. + he didn't react the way I would expect him to HF pushing him. Remained strangely calm and collected for him while still trying to get annul lynched. Usually that's where he becomes super townie, by having sprayed of posts that are strange and genius at the same time. Didn't happened there. Didn't happen everywhere in his filter.
On June 16 2017 07:58 sicklucker wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:58 Holyflare wrote: just realise that sicklucker just said annul has towny sounding posts just now and has absolutely no real reason to scum read annul but is voting him over xata who he doesn't even realise doesn't scum read rayn
i said very slightly convincing plz...
And HF is killed N1 despite being a likely doc protect. + it might be pretty ironic for me to say that against him. But at EOD1 I doubted my vote hardcore because of some annul posts and almsot switched to Xata. SL might be the best player at reading those situations, but he didn't switch, and didn't even show it made him think. Like, I would have expected him to play at least like he described I did:
On June 16 2017 21:15 sicklucker wrote:
On June 16 2017 11:50 darthfoley wrote: Rels also looks problematic given his enter the thread, procede to not vote then voted as the 5th on annul to tie it 5-5.
Not like I Rels out from a mile away
na rels is alright his logic was good he looked hesitant at the end too
+ after that I become one of his main target despite being one of his main townread for no reason other than "let's lynch in the annul wagon".
I think I wanna lynch SL. What's good too is that if he's town it should become obvious.
Meta read is irrelevant here, sl is just a troll he can do anything in D1 and wouldn't prolly be ai. Second point is very ironic yeah i dunno whats your point here? If you're scumreading sl for that doesn't that makes you scum aswell??? You became everyone's main target because your filter was bad until today started basically. I can kinda see why he tr you earlier with your early list and everything.
Are you just bussing sl??
Nope, SL is not a random post generator D1. His play was anything but trolly EOD1.
On June 17 2017 00:54 Skynx wrote: Anyway for sure 1 scum between sl/fefe/rux. They all look equally bad dunno where to start. Grack ninja vote is terrible. Eversince and Rels keep going down in ranks but i havent read their eod properly yet. Other terrible votes off train are btdt and TW. Maybe Vivax aswell but i think he is town. My plan is to also ignore HF and Palmar for a bit. They can be any alignment and so far pretty useless, too high level stuff for me. VA can go suck a dick. rayn is a mystery
I think tomorrow we can start the lynch with grack or any of first trio that started the train.
Don't like the bolded though. An easy list to make the seems good but does nothing.
On June 20 2017 02:10 Skynx wrote: Starting my annul train series with the first trio of sl/ruxxar/fefe
On June 16 2017 03:09 Fecalfeast wrote: I think if we're letting rucksack live we should kill annul
On June 16 2017 03:11 sicklucker wrote: ##vote annul i agree nice ninja ff you get a cheap townread. I just voted him after reading his filter
Got one boys and im super trendy because no one voted him yet so bonus points
On June 16 2017 03:12 ruXxar wrote:
On June 16 2017 03:09 Fecalfeast wrote: I think if we're letting rucksack live we should kill annul
I'm down.
On June 16 2017 07:23 Rels wrote: Don't see a town motivation on annul's vote on Xata then begging Xata to vote SL. EITHER he prefers to lynch SL, then voting SL at that point puts him above him with 1 hour to see what happens OR he prefers Xata, but why the begging to Xata so he votes SL then Doesn't make any sense. Scum. Very likely
On June 16 2017 07:10 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 16 2017 06:58 annul wrote: not at all. i am 1 switch away from majority. with the tiebreaker being what it is, i have no choice.
i WANT to vote for koshi/ruxxar since they are both mafia and either is a fine kill. but alas.
Annul seems like an ok lynch to me. I dislike that he doesn't waver at all in his Koshi read after 10 pages of filter.
It would be worthwhile to check if he tends to be very confident in his reads as town, because his are still based on things from the early game.
I'm on my phone on a train, and the internet is not great.
On June 16 2017 07:45 Eversince wrote: This is going to make me look like garbage.
I haven't read anything since pg 35ish. Give me the the rough of what's happen between now and then for Xata, Annul, and SL.
I don't have time to fact check so my vote is entirely blind at this point.
Don't know where to begin...
On June 20 2017 02:24 Skynx wrote: Everyone on the train had terrible reasons for voting annul. Makes it kinda harder to analyze, scum could be all there tbf. No one had an outstanding read on Xata either, mainly this and that. All 6 I'd lynch 1 by 1 except Ruxxar maybe as he's picking up the game.
On June 20 2017 02:30 Skynx wrote: One thing I noted tho, when it was 6-5 to annul, Eversince came late into thread and claimed he's clueless with that post but he took another 12 mins to think about who to vote. From a town point, if you're clueless, making the train 6-6 shouldn't really bother you but if you're scum you're literally offering your RB on a silver platter.
On June 20 2017 02:47 Skynx wrote: I feel like few votes on him and Grack will start spilling all the beans.
And this looks like he started fabricating a vote analyze but didn't know how to do it. There is nothing there. Like the bolded above, he points that every reasonning is bad and he wants to lynch every player. No game solving there.
Not trying to push game forward and all.
I didn't understand anything from rayn interaction, I assume they are disagreeing on reads? Ruxxar pretty much the same I don't get the sr but apparently you sr him from very early on, why not vote him when he had bunch of people on him??
There is a general lack of structure in these scumreads, he reads the game thats for sure but he just quotes posts and makes up bunch of reasons out of nowhere. Lets look at the townreads,
On June 20 2017 06:58 Rels wrote: but Grack showing he remembered a random post from Palmar means it's likely he's either scum with marv, or not scum. Cause him remembering this random post means he read Palmar's filter (so he's town) or this post stucked to him 'cause marv is his partner. Most likely
This is just laughable, Grack has arguably the worst filter in the game along with ES and gets the easiest tr based on something so superficial.
On June 20 2017 19:49 beentheredonethat wrote: I'm on page 11. I have to admit that his N1 looks very good, especially asking the vig shot to be directed towards Xata. However, Xata doesn't die, so either vig didn't shoot or mafia has a protection mechanic or the roleblock got lucky? Hm, speculations. I'd say scum has a protective mechanic
looooool never scum. BTDT is never ever scum. This is him solving the game right there. Speculating that the scumteam might have a prot role 'cause it fits with his belief that disfo is scum. I'm never ever voting him. Sry BTDT but I'm not convinced at all by your case. Apart from point 1 which is what annoyed me about disfo at the beginning. But the rest is him being disfo. Doesn't make him scum.
More easy tr's, did you even read rest of btdt filter? He's not making 1 bit of sense since start of the game and above post can be very easily fabricated by mafia. I don't even think I'd come up with this one if i was really trying hard to tr btdt.
Nope, I don't believe above post can be very easily fabricated by mafia. Not making sense don't mean he's scum. You've played with him before.
On June 21 2017 03:11 Skynx wrote: Concluding point:
On June 20 2017 21:00 Rels wrote: Actually I just did.
On June 15 2017 00:18 Tumblewood wrote:
On June 15 2017 00:14 Koshi wrote:
On June 15 2017 00:12 Tumblewood wrote: so far i'm thinking ruxxar and disfo have basically dumbtelled by taking sl's claim at fake value. unless i am actually operating on way less irony than them
Don't think they are dumbtelled town for believing a claim. They are more likely town if SL is mafia.
or what do you mean?
believing the claim requires not realizing that sl just made that up. and if rux or disfo are mafia then they should figure that out because it doesn't reconcile at all with the information that they have. i think there's a corner case of this where they're mafia with eversince, but i figure they are still probably town. and if sl is mafia... idk, at least disfo is kinda scrubby and might take it as a legit fakeclaim
this is kinda townie
Nothing else stands out of to me as town or scum. The activity is bad ofc though. I want him to play more.
Mind you he makes a similar post about me but I'm still scum and TW is town????
On June 16 2017 03:39 Skynx wrote: Koshi is not screaming and calling this town shit, he might be mafia actually
this is kinda townie. Weird thing to say to a town leader that is obviously not getting lynched
Like wtf? He just finds reasons in his universe that makes someone town or scum but apparently they don't apply to everyone in same value. It is most clearly seen in sl and simple tr on me and tw. I just can't follow any of his reads, sorry.
##Vote: Rels
LOL you can't believe that. Yes there are two posts that point out a townie thing for Tumble and for you. THEN THERE ARE TWO OTHERS POSTS, ONE THAT TALK WITH DISFO ABOUT ANOTHER TOWNIE THING ON DISFO, ONE THAT DISCOVER SOMETHING BAD IN YOUR FILTER. On tumble Skynx Makes no sense that you wouldn't check why could have changed my mind. You just found a change and used it to attack me.
On June 21 2017 05:55 sicklucker wrote: and ya I like how all the nk's point to me. no like I really fucking love it. Its quite obvious mafia want to lynch me.
Its evidence to how awful they are.
Maybe palmars mafia after all. He might be delusional enough to think he can get me lynched even tho I never get lynched when I dont want to be. He seems to have lost all respect for me.
Hes also the only one actually pushing me and the nk's suggest there trying to push me
On June 21 2017 05:55 sicklucker wrote: and ya I like how all the nk's point to me. no like I really fucking love it. Its quite obvious mafia want to lynch me.
Its evidence to how awful they are.
Maybe palmars mafia after all. He might be delusional enough to think he can get me lynched even tho I never get lynched when I dont want to be. He seems to have lost all respect for me.
Hes also the only one actually pushing me and the nk's suggest there trying to push me
SL I'm gonna do everything in my power to lynch you. You're not making sense. You're always tinfoiling at situations that look too good to be true. That makes no sense
Dude don't fight back like he usually does Dude claims NK points at him and don't explain Dude don't have his weird and (sometimes) brillant theories about how all the town leaders are scum Dude wanna auto lynch all the following days. Fuck him. Especially if he's town.
On June 21 2017 06:27 Blazinghand wrote: SL has stated that his belief is that Mafia shot everyone who was townreading him in order to set him up to get lynched today or something similar.
thats not really my belief but people have brought it up. I think hf was mored killed because hes generally a good player. NO idea why vivax was shot its kind of a frame but hes usually a free townread.
But the kills do point to me no idea why rels is fake raging for me to point that out to him
First, again why do this point to you over anyone else ? Second, when townie die it's more often because they scumread a scum than for some WIFOM plan.
On June 21 2017 06:27 Blazinghand wrote: SL has stated that his belief is that Mafia shot everyone who was townreading him in order to set him up to get lynched today or something similar.
thats not really my belief but people have brought it up. I think hf was mored killed because hes generally a good player. NO idea why vivax was shot its kind of a frame but hes usually a free townread.
But the kills do point to me no idea why rels is fake raging for me to point that out to him
First, again why do this point to you over anyone else ? Second, when townie die it's more often because they scumread a scum than for some WIFOM plan.
did you not read the game? all hf did was call me mafia he even stayed off the xata wagon trying to get me lynched over him. Same with vivax.
I just read Vivax last big post and this is what he says : "- lynch grack and ES, grack first if possible." Then : "- force SL to play more". Don't see how that's framing you
On June 21 2017 07:04 VayneAuthority wrote: despite people claiming autopilot this phase looks like anything but. The resistance and waffling today makes me feel pretty good about grack vote, its not going smoothly at all
that would be good if I wasn't the main force moving the game along today. And I'm not scum. So that is not the case.
On June 21 2017 07:11 Rels wrote: the amount of people scumreading me and not engaging me to gauge me is too high. SL, rayn, Skynx, ruxxar. Shame on whoever is town in that list.
That's bs too man. I have done nothing this phase except for engaging you, you brush it all away and dodge my concerns. And then you claim this shit.
well I'm here now. Claim any fucking concerns you still have. I hope it's better than what I answered yesterday
your reason to scumread me is so bad too. Because I dumbtelled. I understand not taking the dumbtell into account 'cause it can be faked. But making it a basis for a scumread is nonsense
On June 21 2017 07:11 Rels wrote: the amount of people scumreading me and not engaging me to gauge me is too high. SL, rayn, Skynx, ruxxar. Shame on whoever is town in that list.
That's bs too man. I have done nothing this phase except for engaging you, you brush it all away and dodge my concerns. And then you claim this shit.
well I'm here now. Claim any fucking concerns you still have. I hope it's better than what I answered yesterday
On June 21 2017 07:13 Grackaroni wrote: I think the only reason I'm being auto'd in the first place is because of RuXxar.
The reason you are being auto'd is because you are scum.
this continues to be the trend. No doubts just auto lynches lined up. You can't be town
Imagine yourself as obs, analyzing the game. Completely neutral, no involvement in the outcome whatsoever.
Who do you think has the highest chance of flipping scum today, all things considered?
SL you rayn
You don't think grack looks the least bit scummy at all? Not a tiny bit?
Nope. If I was an obs and didn't have the mindmeld with him I would think he is someone that needs to be lynched at some point. A random dude with no activity that could flip scum.
On June 15 2017 12:05 darthfoley wrote: Anyone else wonder why Rels was like 24 town reads with caveats to every read? How can you call Xata's post on ruXxar "good' when he just copy and pasted what like 4 other people have already pointed out?
On June 15 2017 12:07 darthfoley wrote: Like how can Rels view my case on Xatalos as convincing and pretty good while also town reading Xatalos for a thread sentiment case on ruXxar?
Don't like Rels so far
It was a chronological list of things of interest while I was catching up. When I found something on a player that was already on the list I just put another thing under the list of that player. So: DF: - also understanding Skynx post + doing his own thing (p 18). Dunno why he doesn't like Xata though. Didnt find anything Xata did so far was AI. - nice post explaining why Xata is scummy. Convincing too, the bit where Xata missed Skynx' logic.
On June 17 2017 01:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: Meh i am bad... The post doesnt actually explain anything (in how he got where he did), it just repeats what he did...
On June 17 2017 01:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: But Rels has nothing to give us so far. Have you, disformation? Havev you, Eversince?
Why, after you realized your reason to scumrad me is wrong, I continue to be a main scumread ? You've played plenty of games with me where I give nothing early. Why the call for me being killed just after ?
On June 20 2017 08:26 Rels wrote: getting tired so I will stop reading filters. I think Grack is town for the post I quoted earlier + that post where he called out the overall sentiement that scum had to be in annul's wagon. I thought the same thing reading those last pages. ##Vote raynpelikoneet Get smart or die.
No Rels, you don't get to do this.
First of all, your post on Eversince. There is a reason you started with this line:
wow that makes Eversince town.
I do not care you later figured out you were wrong in this conclusion. It doesn't matter. It matters that your original conclusion is completely illogical and there is always a reason you posted it in the first place, because that's what people do, even if they don't think things through. So i am trying to figure out why you originally came to this conclusion. Here's what i can think of: 1) You fucked up because you know Eversince's alignment (mafia) and made a bad judgement call of what people do think about the post. 2) You fucked up because you know Eversince's alignment (town) and because TMI you came to "correct conclusion". 3) You originally posted that as town because ?????
Now you haven't explained why (3) ? Obviously you're gonna claim that's the case regardless of your alignment. Saying "i corrected myself later" doesn't cut it because i don't care about it. I care about what was your original thought process, why did you originally think it makes Eversince town, because as i said, there IS a reason why you originally posted what you did.
I have explained 3. It's literally the part you erased after the part you quoted. I didn't "figure out I was wrong in this conclusion", I just thought it was less strong than I initially thought. I still think it's a small town indicator.
On June 20 2017 18:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Secondly there is this disformation thing. The fact is all about this game is what mafia would or wouldn't likely do. You are literally trying to discredit my read JUST by saying "you can't assume what mafia would/wouldn't do". That's fucking retarded since that's literally what this game is about, and nothing else, since by your logic any alignment can post anything they ever want and you can never figure out anything based on what people say/do. Basically, i don't care if you disagree with my conclusion, you are allowed to do that. But you're not really doing that, you're saying i am mafia because of me coming to a perfectly logical conclusion. That's pretty fucking fishy Rels, and i happen to know you do these shit cases on me as mafia, it happens on almost every game you're mafia in. I don't fucking know how to explain this in words that other people can understand, and why what Rels says is super duper dumb and incorrect, but please read it with thought. There is nothing unsmart in what i said. There is everything unsmart and wrong in what Rels says here.
Yep I didn't expect you to make that conclusion as town. Literally my first thought reading the red check + disfo's reaction was thinking about if it made disfo town or not. And it does not. And that you can't see it is bothering me. And why are you talking to me, but in the middle switching to talking to others ?
On June 20 2017 18:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now let's believe Rels is town and actually believes in what he says on what i talked about above. Then there is this thing:
On June 17 2017 12:08 Eversince wrote: I'm no town leader and if I'm alive on D3 I will be utterly useless again. So this is my gift for you town. I'm 99.65535% convinced of it.
SL, TW, Xata, Grack and X(Solve X for game) is the mafia team.
Everything is here. The connections, the soft defenses, the meaningless casting of doubt, the organization between them interlocks and really is apparent at the lynch. There is only 1 wildcard if there is 5 mafia.
This is a post Eversince made. Since you, Rels, are so against the line of thinking "what would mafia most likely do" why aren't you interested at all in this post?? It doesn't make any sense since she made a fucking post that is literally filled with nothing but "this is what i think mafia is doing". Why do you treat Eversince differently than you treat me when i approach the game from the same perspective?
Here's another one:
On June 15 2017 06:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Fecalfeast is likely town. I liked the approach to darthfoley's opening from him. I recall FF being more "serious" from get go as mafia, at least the last game i played with him. It's like he wasn't trying to make anything out of nothing (which DF's "inconsistency" pretty much was).
This is my early read on Fecalfeast. This is me saying "i think if Fecalfeast is mafia he most likely would have reacted differently to df's opening". Again this is the same thing. Funnily enough this is in the pretty much ONLY post i had made when Rels called me town!!! So i really really have to ask, why does Rels treat me differently than he treats me when i approach the game from same perspective than i do????
This whole stuff above is insane also because you can go to any game i have played ever and this is always how i form my reads. Rels not only fails to realize i am doing what i always do as town, but also even treats myself in a different manner when it comes to different people.
I hold you to a much higher standard than ES. Your FF meta read has nothing to do with your disfo-is-not-partner-with-Xata read. And the fact that you're accusing me so much instead of probing me is bothering me. As town you're asking questions and laying traps.
On June 20 2017 18:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Then there is the Chezitwo read. Rels literally said Chezitwo is mafia because of what marv has done some other time. The he backpedals from the read with:
I had this huge feeling that he had TMI defending marv like that, but it turns out that since he's his replacement he has TMI on his slot.
You really couldn't "figure this out" earlier??? REALLY?!?!? And you're fucking calling me unsmart....
On June 20 2017 18:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: And then there is the annnul vote thing. I don't literally care what annul said about his Xatalos vote. I care about the fact that it is factually incorrect a vote on Xatalos will most likely get him to vote for sicklucker, regardless of what annul thinks. And by that, it makes your conclusion (and vote) extremely stupid - i am talking about the reasoning here, not that you voted for annul in itself. (I don't really blame anyone for voting for annul just because they voted for him.) Because it is true. Because if annul was mafia and wanted Xatalos to vote for sicklucker you don't fucking play around "blackmailing him", you just vote for sicklucker instead and try to plead to Xatalos. That is what mafia would do most likely. You should be smart enough to realize that.
Makes no sense. annul votes Xata. annul makes a post begging Xata to vote SL. I call out that post. That's plain and simple. You're getting complicated with a story that looks pretty but is only one possibility. It is not logical.
On June 20 2017 18:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##vote Rels
Now here's what's gonna happen if you're town Rels:
You stop calling me unsmart because if i am unsmart in how i have played and it makes me mafia then you're 100x mafia. If you think i am mafia at least TRY to make a fucking case based on what i have done. You're gonna explain these things. Then you're gonna get onto your level because right now i will need people to work with me and those people i am looking into are you/Palmar/disformation/Chezitwo/Ruxxar. But mostly you and Palmar, and sadly right now i think you're probably mafia and Palmar is not playing. Maybe he will wake up from his weekend hibernation soon.
I'm gonna push you until one of us is dead OR you start solving the game instead of just posting weird things and asking pointless questions.
On June 20 2017 19:05 Rels wrote: I have explained 3. It's literally the part you erased after the part you quoted. I didn't "figure out I was wrong in this conclusion", I just thought it was less strong than I initially thought. I still think it's a small town indicator.
Why is it a town indicator?
'cause in the narrative where she's scum with Xata and came to save him EOD1, it's more likely that she was fake AFK and faked entering the thread to save him. That what was said against her.
I still don't understand this. You basically just went back in circles and said the reasoning is the same you earlier said is not actually a reasoning to call him town for it.
Can you explain it in words i can understand? We have concluded she probably didn't fake her entering the thread. But why is misreading/misremembering something a towntell, even slightest? Because i don't see why.
You never explained this.
Well everything is explained already. You're saying "the reasoning is the same you earlier said is not actually a reasoning to call him town for it". When I explained I actually think it's a little town indicative.
On June 21 2017 07:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
2) Where is the "Skynx is scum" read? From earlier, i don't care if you don't think he is scum anymore i wanna hear the read you were so sure of yesterday. You pointed out some stuff but that doesn't make any sense. Because Skynx gave 3 mafia reads he was most certain of and you think 2 of them are mafia so it would be that... HE IS MOSTLY RIGHT if you are!! And that makes him mafia? And you just say "An easy list to make the seems good but does nothing".... The dude jsut fucking gave 3 scumreads from which you think 2 are mafia, regardless of he pushes them or not he should be one of your top towns.
lol why are you attacking me before I can even reply. He was on my list of scummy people after catching up probably because I didn't like a post of him. Then I filtered him and the way he handles groups of people in one of his big post was pretty suspicious.
On June 21 2017 07:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: 3) Why is Ruxxar mafia? Oh right... After saying Ruxxar is mafia this is what you say:
I'm gonna push you until one of us is dead OR you start solving the game instead of just posting weird things and asking pointless questions.
Did i start solving the game? It doesn't look like you think so. Then why are you not 1v1'ing me as you said you would? I couldn't give any less fucking fucks if i get lynched because it nets us mafia the next day 100%. You're completely fucking illogical in how your reads change and what they are in the first place.
Because I changed my mind reading SL's filter. I think SL is scum more than I think you're scum. Why is it illogical ?
ruxxar: - "I like it" on a disfo post that didn't deserve any of it. Not that it deserved scum points. But nothing to like in it. - buying SL's red check. Propose we lynch Eversince, then SL if she flips green. No game vision. Gullible.
So you read Ruxxar as mafia because (after discounting your "top scumread" who is 0 posts marv) you want to lynch Ruxxar and one of your two reasons is he wants to lynch your top scumread discounting 0 posts marv and himself.
Reeeeellllsssss!!!
... this is one of my first posts I think ? Why did you remove the timestamp ? They're not the reasons I think he's scum now. This was the beginning of the game
On June 21 2017 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like this is how it went:
Rels: I think this X makes ES town rayn: bs, that doesn't make her town at all Rels: well i already said that, did you not read this post after my initial post? rayn: i don't care, i wanna know why you initially thought it makes here town, or why did you say so? Rels: Well i think it makes her a little bit town
????????????????????????
Let me replace the middle part by what I ACTUALLY said I had a thought, then I realized it was not as strong as I thought, then I posted it. "Not as strong as I thought" is different from "that doesn't make her town at all"
On June 21 2017 07:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: Mhm again we have this:
ruxxar: - "I like it" on a disfo post that didn't deserve any of it. Not that it deserved scum points. But nothing to like in it. - buying SL's red check. Propose we lynch Eversince, then SL if she flips green. No game vision. Gullible.
So you read Ruxxar as mafia because (after discounting your "top scumread" who is 0 posts marv) you want to lynch Ruxxar and one of your two reasons is he wants to lynch your top scumread discounting 0 posts marv and himself.
Reeeeellllsssss!!!
... this is one of my first posts I think ? Why did you remove the timestamp ? They're not the reasons I think he's scum now. This was the beginning of the game
Ahem so what are your reasons then? This is the only post you have made about ruxxar after that before the "still have ruxxar to filter tonight.":
On June 20 2017 00:06 ruXxar wrote: On my way home from work, so I'll get some more thoughts out later, but just to leave you with my preferred lynch order:
Grack. Rels. Maybe ES.
It's just super obvious to lynch people on the town train before people on the scum train.
If you try to convince me or town that there was only 1 mafia on the annul train I'll be nominating you for the Darwin Award.
such an awful last line
So this is your reasoning then? Or what?
MM WOW THAT WAS HARD TO FIND
On June 20 2017 21:09 Rels wrote: That might be the worse case I've ever seen
On June 20 2017 22:38 disformation wrote: tbh. my gut likes palmar/sl/skynx +1 more on annul
What happened to grack? Is he town now?
+1 more on annul?
You sure went from confident in grack/rels to +1 on annul.
Are you trying to scumread disfo ? Or are you trying to see his thought process ? If it's the latter, why are you asking when it's quite clear from the last few pages ?
On June 20 2017 22:38 disformation wrote: tbh. my gut likes palmar/sl/skynx +1 more on annul
What happened to grack? Is he town now?
+1 more on annul?
You sure went from confident in grack/rels to +1 on annul.
yes. my reads change as i go back to review the contents of the game and interact with other players. shocking i know. yes i am way less confident in rels being scum. might be grack might be es. think lynching grack first is fine.
You think there was only 2 mafia on the annul vote?
You think it's obvious than 3+ scum were on the 7 people annul wagon ? When it's terrifying to take stances like that as scum ? Not taking anything else into account, maybe there are 3 or 4 scums in the 7 people coutner wagon to a scum. But it's not likely. Scum will usually spread their votes, and it's fucking scary to vote on something you KNOW is wrong and is gonna be revealed, since it's the D1 vote. So I don't understand how you can have the mindset than it's super likely than 3 or 4 scums were on annul.
On June 21 2017 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Before the filter post. You have called the dude mafia all game and every "reasoning" i gather from your filter you tell is not valid anymore. SO WHY IS HE FUCKING MAFIA THEN?
WELL AT THE BEGINNING I SCUMREAD HIM FOR THE REASONS YOU QOUTED BEFORE THE FILTER POST WHAT I READ DURING CATCH UP DIDNT MAKE ME THINK HE WAS TOWN AND I WANTED TO FILTER READ HIM AND AFTER THE FILTER POST EVERYTHING IS QUOTED IT IS NOT FUCKING HARD
On June 21 2017 08:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like literally Rels, you have made a case on Ruxxar that is basically "(1) he is trying to lynch his top scumread with (2) a bad case".
Now:
What is scummy in (1)?
Why is this a bad case: *I took away the "he hammered town" part because that's actually a thing that never makes anyone mafia*
How many scum reads did he have the whole game? Let's see:
DF:
On June 15 2017 04:10 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 15 2017 03:57 darthfoley wrote:
On June 15 2017 03:57 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 15 2017 03:49 disformation wrote: @xata: ruxxar gave his reason to vote koshi later on.
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote: I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.
##vote koshi
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Wow i got him boys.
Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
but as fefe pointed out:
On June 15 2017 02:40 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote: I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.
##vote koshi
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Wow i got him boys.
Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
I actually like this explanation. Sorta wish you said this instead of just 'read Koshi's filter decided he's mafia' as now I'm suspicious you went back to read his filter after my post to find a post that is suspect.
For the second part:
People generally think this is scummy and it's not. It just generates suspicion because people don't like to see unjustified reads.
Mafia won't ever just carelessly throw out a scum read without giving any thought about how they are going to defend it unless they are under some kind of heavy pressure to produce a read.
Also I liked Ruxxar's reasoning for his Koshi vote.
who do you think is scum?
I'm kinda looking at you tbh.
On June 15 2017 04:38 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 15 2017 04:27 darthfoley wrote:
On June 15 2017 04:10 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 15 2017 03:57 darthfoley wrote:
On June 15 2017 03:57 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 15 2017 03:49 disformation wrote: @xata: ruxxar gave his reason to vote koshi later on.
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote: [quote]
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote: [quote] btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
but as fefe pointed out:
On June 15 2017 02:40 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote: [quote]
Sure.
This post:
[quote]
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
I actually like this explanation. Sorta wish you said this instead of just 'read Koshi's filter decided he's mafia' as now I'm suspicious you went back to read his filter after my post to find a post that is suspect.
For the second part:
People generally think this is scummy and it's not. It just generates suspicion because people don't like to see unjustified reads.
Mafia won't ever just carelessly throw out a scum read without giving any thought about how they are going to defend it unless they are under some kind of heavy pressure to produce a read.
Also I liked Ruxxar's reasoning for his Koshi vote.
who do you think is scum?
I'm kinda looking at you tbh.
Look at me as much as you like, but why?
I'm mostly just looking for someone kinda in the middle blending in.
Disfo:
On June 15 2017 07:36 Grackaroni wrote: I like Rayn too though. And I'm ok with a Disfo lynch.
HF:
On June 16 2017 07:32 Grackaroni wrote: Holy flare seems like a very good vote. He's being ridiculously over the top trying to push this SL lynch.
I haven't liked either of his Vivax/Koshi pushes. And he dragged the Vivax one out for the hell of it.
On June 16 2017 07:10 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 16 2017 06:58 annul wrote: not at all. i am 1 switch away from majority. with the tiebreaker being what it is, i have no choice.
i WANT to vote for koshi/ruxxar since they are both mafia and either is a fine kill. but alas.
Annul seems like an ok lynch to me. I dislike that he doesn't waver at all in his Koshi read after 10 pages of filter.
It would be worthwhile to check if he tends to be very confident in his reads as town, because his are still based on things from the early game.
I'm on my phone on a train, and the internet is not great.
"I'm ok with". "Seems like". There's 0 commitment to anything here. Just superficial non-sense without any substance. So obviously he followed up and actually tried to push his scum reads? Nope. Well, at least he voted for his scum reads? Nope.
It's like a total non-commitment to any of his "reads" and just screams "I'm just trying to blend in".
Explain me why this is a bad case?
It's a bad case because using sentences like "I'm ok with" and "seems like" don't make someone scum. Unless there is some meta going on.
On June 21 2017 08:01 Eversince wrote: I think Rayn should at least drop the argument involving your comment on me. You clarified what you meant within the same minute of posting that.
No. The fact is Rels was making a factually incorrect statement he should know is one, and couldn't explain that reasonably. Instead he is trying to defend the statement.
When I used this argument against him initially he said that he'd never try faking a dumbtell because he knew he'd be caught for it, so that's a dumb strategy, so he wouldn't do it
On June 21 2017 08:01 Eversince wrote: I think Rayn should at least drop the argument involving your comment on me. You clarified what you meant within the same minute of posting that.
No. The fact is Rels was making a factually incorrect statement he should know is one, and couldn't explain that reasonably. Instead he is trying to defend the statement.
This is the post in question right?:
On June 17 2017 08:08 Rels wrote:
On June 17 2017 01:48 Eversince wrote: On my EoD stuff:
I ask for reads and SL: "vote with me if you think I'm town" Nothing else. HF: vote for SL and loosely explains why. Nothings else.
I missed Rels big qoute post on Xata but I don't think it would have mattered.
Since I was left with "Blindly follow this because it's the one I want" I just blindly consolidated.
SL claiming I have him as a top town read at the time is funny. And expecting me to make a vote based off reads that are almost 40 pg old, after I openly admit that my reads are outdated and I have no time to read to adjust them. Ooff to me.
HF claiming I say he's the only one to give input is misconstrued. Other than Rels post that I missed, he was the only one who said the reason for why I should vote with him. He just failed to do it for any of the other two wagons.
wow that makes Eversince town. My big quote was about annul. So to those thinking ES was faking entering the thread (and Ithought that too befor ethat post), is she faked that she wouldn't mess up the names there. That means the entering the thread was innocent at the very least.
Which he followed within the same minute:
On June 17 2017 08:08 Rels wrote: well that probably doesn't make her town. but that makes her not faking entering the thread
Or am I just not on the same page as to what that is about? Because I was thinking this is what that is about.
Yes you are. I bolded the important parts for you.
This is what he says now when i questioned him for it:
I had a thought, then I realized it was not as strong as I thought, then I posted it. "Not as strong as I thought" is different from "that doesn't make her town at all"
Does the second big part look like he said this?
I think he backed off from a statement he knows is factually incorrect in a manner that looks the least bad. You know like slowly fading into the background.. I hope you and other people get what i mean here. If i made that sort of a mistake as town i would just admit i did a hasty judgement call that was retarded (in the first place) and not try to defend that later (in a way that ALSO kind of contradicts your original retractment from it).
Nothing is factually incorrect. You're nitpicking something. The sentence "well that probably doesn't make her town. but that makes her not faking entering the thread" means "it's not as strong as I thought". As I explained multiple times. There is nothing else. Now you can say that I'm just backtracking to explain a mistake or a slip or whatver you're calling it. OK. Call me scum for that if you want. The explanation is there, and you're choosing an interpretation of it that is nitpicky to attack.
On June 21 2017 19:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can people at least look at what i have said about Rels and comment on it?
1) His explanation on the Eversince comment doesn't match up with the earlier explanation on the Eversince comment. In fact i don't even believe it matches the original comment. 2) His vote on annul is based on very bad reasoning and the way he went on with it on D1 in very surface level thinking which is not really typical for him. 3) All of his scumreads are based on very surface level reasoning and there is basically no thought behind them (see for example the read on me, earlier read on Chezitwo, read on Grack, read on sicklucker, N1 or so read on Skynx and the read on Ruxxar). 4) The way he has pushed his scumreads is... well he hasn't, it's non-existent.
The complete lack of ANY people to even COMMENT on the case makes me think even more i am right here.
yep I didn't push my scumreads. .. I only created the second wagon that is being vote down today.
disfo and BTDT your fight is annoying. You're both probably town. And it looks like you're not getting lynched today. So if you could stop and be nice it would be awesome. p: yeah I know I might not be the best guy to say that ^^ but it would be good
BH you're there ? I thought you scumread me for that dumbtell where I didn't know that scum KP went down to 1 after N2. Apparently I misunderstood ? Please explain if that's the case
rayn is also certainly scum. Nitpicking details to hell and not trying to comprehend stuff. + saying I'm doing nothing with my scumreads when it could be argueed that I'm the most influential dude today, creating the counter wagon to Grack.
On June 21 2017 20:05 Rels wrote: BTDT join us in that "lets see if SL is really unlynchable" quest. Good reward at the end I promise
No, we're lynching into Grack or Skynx today. I dived SL's filter with the assumption he was scum and he pushed annul so hard D1 that I didn't really think that scum would do this.
Like, he was all over it, scumreading HF super hard and then HF is the nightkill. He's also saying very often "i'm sicklucker i'm super good" while making jaw-droppingly weird reads
I think that's town-sicklucker
but more importantly I think skynx/grack are the better lynch.
the first part is not true. First, SL is actually one of the few players I know who is NOT afraid to protect his partner at all cost if he can. He has a certain logic that he follows. Second, consider that there was also the possiblity of HIM being lynched instead of Xata or annul. So it makes sense that he needed to be active. About HF, this means nothing. Scumreading someone super hard then killing him proves nothing. Especially since HF is a super strong player for any scum team; and that he was scumreading SL pretty hard. Finally, this is not true: "He's also saying very often "i'm sicklucker i'm super good" while making jaw-droppingly weird reads." On the contrary, I'm waiting for the weird smart post and they're not coming.
On June 21 2017 20:20 Rels wrote: maybe we should put Skynx out of his misery as a birthday present =D
summarize why we would lynch SL for me please.
he never had his spray of posting random and smart stuff he always has as town at some point. It's likely it will happen if we push him too, it always happens. He doesn't have any tinfoil theories today, he just want to follow the ruxxar path of lynching people down a list. That is NOT him. He has a hard time being active and saying smart stuff. He entered the thread several time this phase, and never had something smart to say.
On June 21 2017 20:05 Rels wrote: BTDT join us in that "lets see if SL is really unlynchable" quest. Good reward at the end I promise
No, we're lynching into Grack or Skynx today. I dived SL's filter with the assumption he was scum and he pushed annul so hard D1 that I didn't really think that scum would do this.
Like, he was all over it, scumreading HF super hard and then HF is the nightkill. He's also saying very often "i'm sicklucker i'm super good" while making jaw-droppingly weird reads
I think that's town-sicklucker
but more importantly I think skynx/grack are the better lynch.
the first part is not true. First, SL is actually one of the few players I know who is NOT afraid to protect his partner at all cost if he can. He has a certain logic that he follows. Second, consider that there was also the possiblity of HIM being lynched instead of Xata or annul. So it makes sense that he needed to be active. About HF, this means nothing. Scumreading someone super hard then killing him proves nothing. Especially since HF is a super strong player for any scum team; and that he was scumreading SL pretty hard. Finally, this is not true: "He's also saying very often "i'm sicklucker i'm super good" while making jaw-droppingly weird reads." On the contrary, I'm waiting for the weird smart post and they're not coming.
He did push Annul. It's true, I can bring up 5-10 posts where he's pushing Annul and/or talking people into lynching Annul.
Having also read the summary of why you're scumreading him, I think it's mainly meta reasons. I can see your points in saying "it's NAI if you push a town lynch super hard or scum read someone who flips immediately", so yeah you're right.
I think he shouldn't be the lynch today. Flipping Grack/Skynx gives us a lot of information, we can associate a lot and we'll be able to read more into other people's reads, which is like the exact ground where sicklucker can do the weird good posting that you expect him to do.
Thing is, I'm more sure SL is scum than everybody else. I can switch to Skynx if SL become the town god he is when he's pushed. But until that happens we should pressure him.
that puts FF in the spotlight ? That he says he's gonna vote Xata in a super contested vote, but is not doing it because "bait". If xata is his partner, he would probably not do that. Cause it looks bad, to say he's gonna vote his partner but not doing it. If Xata flips later in the game it's bad. Could be WIFOM though. Not gonna give too many town points. But I think it's more likely to come from town.
More killer stuff against SL, during N1. He can't explain why suddenly his Xata read changes just because it was a contested lynch. If he's scum he KNOWS Xata is gonna be probably killed soon, maybe even vig'd.
On June 16 2017 21:30 sicklucker wrote: This is my tenitive reads list from most likely town to most likely scum.
On June 16 2017 04:54 sicklucker wrote: meh I dont think xatas filter is that bad. at least his ideas are unconventional to the thread which I kind of expect his town play
On June 16 2017 07:45 Eversince wrote: This is going to make me look like garbage.
I haven't read anything since pg 35ish. Give me the the rough of what's happen between now and then for Xata, Annul, and SL.
I don't have time to fact check so my vote is entirely blind at this point.
sl came to the thread and town read xatalos because xatalos has different reads to most of the game (when in fact xatalos' reads are blending with the rest of the game
sl says i'm mafia for calling all the town leaders mafia and it's my mafia meta when 100% of other games he states my mafia meta is to push lurkers
sl is trying to force the wagon onto someone who is blatantly self-preserving and revealing his plan for all to see, who stubbornly refuses to change his reads despite everyone yelling at him mafia
sl is mafia
I said that because xata had a mafia read on ryan and everyone else town read him. get over it you lost save your buddy
What has changed since this in any way that changes Xatalos' alignment?
On June 16 2017 21:43 Holyflare wrote: You're so full of crap!
On June 16 2017 04:54 sicklucker wrote: meh I dont think xatas filter is that bad. at least his ideas are unconventional to the thread which I kind of expect his town play
On June 16 2017 07:48 sicklucker wrote: it kind of makes it easy that all my town reads are voting annul (ff rels ruxxarand to a lesser degree xata)
On June 16 2017 07:49 sicklucker wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:47 Holyflare wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:45 Eversince wrote: This is going to make me look like garbage.
I haven't read anything since pg 35ish. Give me the the rough of what's happen between now and then for Xata, Annul, and SL.
I don't have time to fact check so my vote is entirely blind at this point.
sl came to the thread and town read xatalos because xatalos has different reads to most of the game (when in fact xatalos' reads are blending with the rest of the game
sl says i'm mafia for calling all the town leaders mafia and it's my mafia meta when 100% of other games he states my mafia meta is to push lurkers
sl is trying to force the wagon onto someone who is blatantly self-preserving and revealing his plan for all to see, who stubbornly refuses to change his reads despite everyone yelling at him mafia
sl is mafia
I said that because xata had a mafia read on ryan and everyone else town read him. get over it you lost save your buddy
What has changed since this in any way that changes Xatalos' alignment?
the other wagon was town in a really close and contested vote...
That highly suggests hes mafia you know this your just trying to make me look bad
On June 16 2017 21:58 Holyflare wrote: I don't give a crap what mafia nonsense you're spouting. You led a wagon on a towny and have absolutely no reason to town read xata. I have MULTIPLE times corrected you that xata doesn't scum read rayn. Which is THE ONLY reason you said you town read Xata despite saying he has opposite readS!! to the thread, you could only quote one and it was wrong.
Then you pushed a wagon on a guy who was not scummy, openly referenced his grand survival plan multiple times and then even you acknowledged he was looking towny.
Then you try and take someone referencing the one troll post you did early game (because let's face it you really did nothing else) as a slight town read because she didn't call you mafia from one post. The thing is she didn't call you town either.
You're worming your way through falsehoods, trying to push events that never happened. Palmar didn't spite vote you from last game, I didn't vote you with no case, vivax wasn't "being bad". All of these are reconstructions of what is actually happening in the game. You even said if palmar was around he'd move his vote but he was around and said he'd keep it there.
Then Eversince comes and has no reason not to vote you. Xatalos' flip will certainly give a shit tonne of information and i hope to god he's town because then her not voting you is the final nail in your coffin.
On June 16 2017 08:16 sicklucker wrote: to be fair tho I mostly drove the close lynch. and I know im town so from my perspective I dont think xata necessary has to be mafia. but I completely understand people who think he and I am from what happened I might think the same
This is posted after the lynch. You don't even think it makes him mafia. A contested lynch means shit all. It's mafias job to make lynches mean nothing. It could be two towns, one mafia one town, anything. You haven't once used any information from it to make the reads nonsense you're posting.
You have me in a lynch list with xatalos who you are now calling mafia despite me trying to also hammer him. You have really really bad reads in this list. You have Eversince who has been pushed by vivax for eternity and myself since the flip, no evaluation.
You take bull shit posts and turn it into bigger bull shit reads and have no game sense. This is not the town SL I know that is solving conspiracy theories. This is an sl who more than likely saw his buddy xatalos up for lynch and fabricated nonsense to save him. When was the last time you tried on a day 1? When was there a time you've ever given a shit enough for a day 1 lynch to matter so much over a really thin town read on xata? Never, that's when.
I will make people see the light. Fiery vengeance will rain down upon you.
On June 16 2017 22:06 sicklucker wrote: alright im not arguing with a lawyer anymore. unless your up for lynch
On June 21 2017 07:26 Rels wrote: your reason to scumread me is so bad too. Because I dumbtelled. I understand not taking the dumbtell into account 'cause it can be faked. But making it a basis for a scumread is nonsense
On June 22 2017 03:46 Fecalfeast wrote: Ruxxar is all about unflipped association this game.
BH do you have reads? I haven't read your filter or anything just wondering
other than Rels = Scum not really no, I've been a useless piece of crap
On June 22 2017 03:49 ruXxar wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:44 Blazinghand wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:16 ruXxar wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:14 Blazinghand wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:12 ruXxar wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:04 Blazinghand wrote:
On June 22 2017 02:47 ruXxar wrote: The short of it is this:
Vote logic tells me that grack and SL are not the same faction. Who you believe is more scummy is up to you.
so why would you need to throw logic out the window to vote SL then
Because people are voting together with grack who they called scum just a short while a ago.
Now they call SL scum and claim they both can be scum.
In no sane world are SL and grack scum together.
hmm so what do you think about Rels
I think rels is scum.
Why not vote him then, or is grack your stronger scumread
On June 22 2017 03:21 ruXxar wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:16 ruXxar wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:14 Blazinghand wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:12 ruXxar wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:04 Blazinghand wrote: [quote]
so why would you need to throw logic out the window to vote SL then
Because people are voting together with grack who they called scum just a short while a ago.
Now they call SL scum and claim they both can be scum.
In no sane world are SL and grack scum together.
hmm so what do you think about Rels
I think rels is scum.
Which is why rels is town reading grack so hard. Also why grack decided to vote for SL over Rels when they were even in votes.
IS the Rels read based entirely on the grack read? is it pure unflipped association?
No. I've had rels as a secondary scum read since after day 2. Just a hair behind grack.
what do you think of Rels faking the dumbtells?
I thought that was not your reason to scumread me ?
On June 21 2017 08:08 Blazinghand wrote:
On June 21 2017 07:26 Rels wrote: your reason to scumread me is so bad too. Because I dumbtelled. I understand not taking the dumbtell into account 'cause it can be faked. But making it a basis for a scumread is nonsense
LOL is this really your reasoning, like damn
Yes I was asking him what he thought of that
Why did you answer me "LOL it this really your reasonning" then ? It seems like what I've said at that point was wrong but it was actually true.
On June 22 2017 03:46 Fecalfeast wrote: Ruxxar is all about unflipped association this game.
BH do you have reads? I haven't read your filter or anything just wondering
other than Rels = Scum not really no, I've been a useless piece of crap
On June 22 2017 03:49 ruXxar wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:44 Blazinghand wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:16 ruXxar wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:14 Blazinghand wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:12 ruXxar wrote: [quote]
Because people are voting together with grack who they called scum just a short while a ago.
Now they call SL scum and claim they both can be scum.
In no sane world are SL and grack scum together.
hmm so what do you think about Rels
I think rels is scum.
Why not vote him then, or is grack your stronger scumread
On June 22 2017 03:21 ruXxar wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:16 ruXxar wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:14 Blazinghand wrote: [quote]
hmm so what do you think about Rels
I think rels is scum.
Which is why rels is town reading grack so hard. Also why grack decided to vote for SL over Rels when they were even in votes.
IS the Rels read based entirely on the grack read? is it pure unflipped association?
No. I've had rels as a secondary scum read since after day 2. Just a hair behind grack.
what do you think of Rels faking the dumbtells?
I thought that was not your reason to scumread me ?
On June 21 2017 08:08 Blazinghand wrote:
On June 21 2017 07:26 Rels wrote: your reason to scumread me is so bad too. Because I dumbtelled. I understand not taking the dumbtell into account 'cause it can be faked. But making it a basis for a scumread is nonsense
LOL is this really your reasoning, like damn
Yes I was asking him what he thought of that
Why did you answer me "LOL it this really your reasonning" then ? It seems like what I've said at that point was wrong but it was actually true.
...I said it because I disagreed with your reasoning, and instead agreed with my own. It was like, making fun of you. I was calling your reasoning bad. You were trying to reason that MY reasoning was bad, and I was like "no, YOUR reasoning is bad". Then, I proceeded to ask someone else about my, good, reasoning. Do you not understand this thought process here?
OK. Then your scumread don't make sense to me. Someone making a dumbtell is not a basis for a scumread. It happens all the time. It can also be faked, no doubt about that. But I don't get why it's a scumtell.
On June 22 2017 08:45 Rels wrote: ruxxar is basically a troll
So you don't want to lynch sicklucker?
Yes I want to lynch SL. One of my main reason thinking you're scum is that you have fixated read that don't chnage, and that you're following a list. That's not how you play mafia. But that's an easy game to play as scum. So I don't like you saying "just gotta lynch SL and it's GG", even if I want to murder SL. I also think you're playing dumb intentionally right now because this is like really, really, really obvious to figure out.
On June 22 2017 03:46 Fecalfeast wrote: Ruxxar is all about unflipped association this game.
BH do you have reads? I haven't read your filter or anything just wondering
other than Rels = Scum not really no, I've been a useless piece of crap
On June 22 2017 03:49 ruXxar wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:44 Blazinghand wrote:
On June 22 2017 03:16 ruXxar wrote: [quote]
I think rels is scum.
Why not vote him then, or is grack your stronger scumread
On June 22 2017 03:21 ruXxar wrote: [quote]
Which is why rels is town reading grack so hard. Also why grack decided to vote for SL over Rels when they were even in votes.
IS the Rels read based entirely on the grack read? is it pure unflipped association?
No. I've had rels as a secondary scum read since after day 2. Just a hair behind grack.
what do you think of Rels faking the dumbtells?
I thought that was not your reason to scumread me ?
On June 21 2017 08:08 Blazinghand wrote:
On June 21 2017 07:26 Rels wrote: your reason to scumread me is so bad too. Because I dumbtelled. I understand not taking the dumbtell into account 'cause it can be faked. But making it a basis for a scumread is nonsense
LOL is this really your reasoning, like damn
Yes I was asking him what he thought of that
Why did you answer me "LOL it this really your reasonning" then ? It seems like what I've said at that point was wrong but it was actually true.
...I said it because I disagreed with your reasoning, and instead agreed with my own. It was like, making fun of you. I was calling your reasoning bad. You were trying to reason that MY reasoning was bad, and I was like "no, YOUR reasoning is bad". Then, I proceeded to ask someone else about my, good, reasoning. Do you not understand this thought process here?
OK. Then your scumread don't make sense to me. Someone making a dumbtell is not a basis for a scumread. It happens all the time. It can also be faked, no doubt about that. But I don't get why it's a scumtell.
So what are you claiming you legitimately didn't read the like two lines of rules in that post, and decided to hang out in thread actively wondering what was in that like 2-line post, without checking? This seems to be a good chance (not 100% of course) of like Scum faking not knowing things. Does that really NOT MAKE SENSE at all to you? Or are you just being obstinant on purpose here
What ? I didn't know scum KP distribution was in the rules.
Why are you creating this story in your way ? Like in your POV, if I'm town I didn't it was in the rules. If I'm scum I faked that. Why are you creating this story in which I'm town that is not my story ?
On June 22 2017 05:15 sicklucker wrote: The only way town losses this is if gracks town and we go full retard in future cycles. Even if hes town (5-10%) the same people are still mafia hes just the problem child in the bunch
lol so the same people are scum regardless of Grack's alignment. Who should be auto lynch in his book. That makes no sense
On June 22 2017 03:46 Fecalfeast wrote: Ruxxar is all about unflipped association this game.
BH do you have reads? I haven't read your filter or anything just wondering
other than Rels = Scum not really no, I've been a useless piece of crap
On June 22 2017 03:49 ruXxar wrote: [quote]
No. I've had rels as a secondary scum read since after day 2. Just a hair behind grack.
what do you think of Rels faking the dumbtells?
I thought that was not your reason to scumread me ?
On June 21 2017 08:08 Blazinghand wrote:
On June 21 2017 07:26 Rels wrote: your reason to scumread me is so bad too. Because I dumbtelled. I understand not taking the dumbtell into account 'cause it can be faked. But making it a basis for a scumread is nonsense
LOL is this really your reasoning, like damn
Yes I was asking him what he thought of that
Why did you answer me "LOL it this really your reasonning" then ? It seems like what I've said at that point was wrong but it was actually true.
...I said it because I disagreed with your reasoning, and instead agreed with my own. It was like, making fun of you. I was calling your reasoning bad. You were trying to reason that MY reasoning was bad, and I was like "no, YOUR reasoning is bad". Then, I proceeded to ask someone else about my, good, reasoning. Do you not understand this thought process here?
OK. Then your scumread don't make sense to me. Someone making a dumbtell is not a basis for a scumread. It happens all the time. It can also be faked, no doubt about that. But I don't get why it's a scumtell.
So what are you claiming you legitimately didn't read the like two lines of rules in that post, and decided to hang out in thread actively wondering what was in that like 2-line post, without checking? This seems to be a good chance (not 100% of course) of like Scum faking not knowing things. Does that really NOT MAKE SENSE at all to you? Or are you just being obstinant on purpose here
What ? I didn't know scum KP distribution was in the rules.
Are you literally claiming you didn't read this, and therefore can't be scum because scum would know this?
No, I'm saying that at the time where I complained about the "2 KP / night", a few days ago, I didn't know that. I'm not trying to prove I' m town so you putting words in my mouth saying I'm trying to prove I'm town is annoying.
On June 22 2017 08:52 Rels wrote: Why are you creating this story in your way ? Like in your POV, if I'm town I didn't it was in the rules. If I'm scum I faked that. Why are you creating this story in which I'm town that is not my story ?
what, i'm not saying you're town dude. I'm not "creating a story in which [Rels is] town"—I LITERALLY AM NOT TOWNREADING YOU
wtf is this like, dumbtell 2.0 from Rels self defense strategy
... you LITERALLY JUST CREATED A STORY in which I was town to see if that was credible, and concluded that it was not, therefore explaining your scumread. HERE: "So what are you claiming you legitimately didn't read the like two lines of rules in that post, and decided to hang out in thread actively wondering what was in that like 2-line post, without checking?"
So in that story, why are you saying "you legitimately didn't read the like two lines of rules in that post, and decided to hang out in thread actively wondering what was in that like 2-line post" ? When it doesn't make sense. You're saying it's nonsense that I talked about the 2 KP while I should have checked the rules. But why would have had check the rules since I didn't know it was in here ?
On June 20 2017 08:05 Rels wrote: )= fucking doc not doing their job
If Doc didn't save DF last night, I wouldn't count on one existing at all. There's zero chance that was a vigi shot, everyone who even gave the thread a cursory glance liked DF. I can say this, as someone who gave the thread a cursory glance.
can't bitch about the balance without knowing the setup. But we better have some way to overcome that 2 KP / night.
lol. Yes it's simple. You're scumreading me because you don't believe I couldn't know that info as town. Which is what I find really dumb. Cause dumbtells happen literally all the time. Discussion closed.
On June 22 2017 09:07 Rels wrote: lol. Yes it's simple. You're scumreading me because you don't believe I couldn't know that info as town. Which is what I find really dumb. Cause dumbtells happen literally all the time. Discussion closed.
This what he's saying: He's saying you are MAFIA, and KNEW the rules. You PRETENDED to be TOWN(dumb tell) by PRETENDING to not know the rules.
Sheesh.
Get it over with you guys.
yep. That's what I've said. And this is a dumb reason. Especially for BH only scumread. As I've also said, nothing else to discuss on that matter.
On June 22 2017 08:38 ruXxar wrote: Don't let the paranoia set in. This game is basically won.
We lynch sicklucker and it's gg.
rels is still mafia . the fact people were more willing to lynch grack verse rels suggests some people were defending rels but were ok with lynching grack
yeah. Like when the entire scumteam voted you in order to vote Grack right.
On June 22 2017 07:05 Eversince wrote: Grack: I'm going to piggy back Rux's case because he brings up some of the same points. Read his here: + Show Spoiler +
On June 20 2017 21:07 ruXxar wrote: Lynch grack: Ruxxar Disformation Vivax Darthfoley FecalFeast VayneAuthority Skynx Rayn Eversince Chezitwo Sicklucker
No opinion on grack: Palmar Beentheredonethat Blazinghand
Thinks grack is town: Tumblewood Rels
People voting for grack(automatic town pile for today): Ruxxar Fefe Chezitwo Beentheredonethat
On June 15 2017 03:49 disformation wrote: @xata: ruxxar gave his reason to vote koshi later on.
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote: I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.
##vote koshi
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Wow i got him boys.
Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
but as fefe pointed out:
On June 15 2017 02:40 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote: I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.
##vote koshi
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Wow i got him boys.
Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
I actually like this explanation. Sorta wish you said this instead of just 'read Koshi's filter decided he's mafia' as now I'm suspicious you went back to read his filter after my post to find a post that is suspect.
For the second part:
People generally think this is scummy and it's not. It just generates suspicion because people don't like to see unjustified reads.
Mafia won't ever just carelessly throw out a scum read without giving any thought about how they are going to defend it unless they are under some kind of heavy pressure to produce a read.
Also I liked Ruxxar's reasoning for his Koshi vote.
On June 15 2017 03:49 disformation wrote: @xata: ruxxar gave his reason to vote koshi later on.
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote: I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.
##vote koshi
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Wow i got him boys.
Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
but as fefe pointed out:
On June 15 2017 02:40 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote: I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.
##vote koshi
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Wow i got him boys.
Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
I actually like this explanation. Sorta wish you said this instead of just 'read Koshi's filter decided he's mafia' as now I'm suspicious you went back to read his filter after my post to find a post that is suspect.
For the second part:
People generally think this is scummy and it's not. It just generates suspicion because people don't like to see unjustified reads.
Mafia won't ever just carelessly throw out a scum read without giving any thought about how they are going to defend it unless they are under some kind of heavy pressure to produce a read.
Also I liked Ruxxar's reasoning for his Koshi vote.
who do you think is scum?
I'm kinda looking at you tbh.
Look at me as much as you like, but why?
I'm mostly just looking for someone kinda in the middle blending in.
Disfo:
On June 15 2017 07:36 Grackaroni wrote: I like Rayn too though. And I'm ok with a Disfo lynch.
HF:
On June 16 2017 07:32 Grackaroni wrote: Holy flare seems like a very good vote. He's being ridiculously over the top trying to push this SL lynch.
I haven't liked either of his Vivax/Koshi pushes. And he dragged the Vivax one out for the hell of it.
On June 19 2017 03:36 Palmar wrote: Ill figure out why we're all so happy together tomorrow
Where've you been PALMAR?
Scummy scum scum.
"I'm ok with". "Seems like". There's 0 commitment to anything here. Just superficial non-sense without any substance. So obviously he followed up and actually tried to push his scum reads? Nope. Well, at least he voted for his scum reads? Nope.
It's like a total non-commitment to any of his "reads" and just screams "I'm just trying to blend in". And thats the total effort he's put into scumhunting the whole game.
So we've already established he doesn't push on his scum reads. Going to repeat a few things for formatting:
Annul seems like an ok lynch to me. I dislike that he doesn't waver at all in his Koshi read after 10 pages of filter.
It would be worthwhile to check if he tends to be very confident in his reads as town, because his are still based on things from the early game.
I'm on my phone on a train, and the internet is not great.
Implying that townies don't tunnel eachother. Hehehe, please. HF/Koshi/Rayn, ringing any bells? Vivax tunneling on me all game? *I know I'm not flipped yet. But I also know I'm town.* Townies tunnel on eachother ALL the time! Doesn't persue this.
On June 16 2017 07:30 Grackaroni wrote: Xatalos was pretty meh. I legitimately don't think he has been any more meh than disfo. The one scum game I remember from him he played a very aggressive style.
Regardless that Disfo has already set an activity standard that will be hard to manage if he's mafia, you want to lynch him over Xata? Because meta says Xata's not playing what you remember his scum game to be? Doesn't persue either of these reads anyway.
On June 16 2017 07:32 Grackaroni wrote: Holy flare seems like a very good vote. He's being ridiculously over the top trying to push this SL lynch.
I haven't liked either of his Vivax/Koshi pushes. And he dragged the Vivax one out for the hell of it.
Remember that town tunnels ALL the time thing I just mentioned a few paragraphs ago? It's a thing. Also pay attention to the HF read here. Hf is the only person who Grack thinks is anything more than a "meh".
On June 16 2017 07:48 disformation wrote: grack comment on the ninja? not complaining though. have a hell of a hard time decicing between annul and xata
I don't have much to say beyond what I've said decently in my filter.
Annul seems like a better lynch than Xatalos to me. HF push on SL seems a lot more agenda driven than HF believing he has a bulletproof case.
Conclusion: Annul must be mafia because town never ever ever tunnel. Xata isn't mafia because meta. HF, the only person he actually thinks is mafia in this picture, is completely ignored. Aside from the recognition of the fact HF is pushing SL for the exact reason he said he was.
On June 16 2017 07:55 Holyflare wrote: there is no fucking way that after 2-3 years of playing with sicklucker and him calling my meta to a T every single game that he randomly just backtracks and says it's something else and then pushes me as mafia with it
Since when is pushing newbies your scum meta. You'll push whoever you find scummy/think you can push.
Mafia will push whoever they think they can. SL doesn't agree with that, says HF pushes active town/leaders. HF finds that very questionable. Grack points out the flaw of logic himself, but thinks HF is scum pushing an agenda on SL. Also giving him the excuse "no Xata cuz scum HF choice #2" Convenient?
On June 15 2017 00:12 Tumblewood wrote: so far i'm thinking ruxxar and disfo have basically dumbtelled by taking sl's claim at fake value. unless i am actually operating on way less irony than them
On June 15 2017 00:12 Tumblewood wrote: so far i'm thinking ruxxar and disfo have basically dumbtelled by taking sl's claim at fake value. unless i am actually operating on way less irony than them
Don't think they are dumbtelled town for believing a claim. They are more likely town if SL is mafia.
or what do you mean?
believing the claim requires not realizing that sl just made that up. and if rux or disfo are mafia then they should figure that out because it doesn't reconcile at all with the information that they have. i think there's a corner case of this where they're mafia with eversince, but i figure they are still probably town. and if sl is mafia... idk, at least disfo is kinda scrubby and might take it as a legit fakeclaim
On June 15 2017 00:22 Tumblewood wrote: hmm i guess "i randomly generated [the check]" doesn't totally exclude the possibility of sl as a role that gets to check someone pregame. but that is like 2% chance territory so i won't worry about it too much
Town has no way of knowing in the first place so at best nai? Mafia without setup knowledge have no way of knowing. Town SL could throw that claim out. He'll be mostly laughed at for it (exactly what happened) The only way TW would know the 100% validity of SL's claim either way is if TW is mafia and I'm either on the team(making it pluasible) or not(100%Fake). Even if Disfo, Rux, and myself where mafia we still couldn't know the validity of SL's claim 100% unless we knew the setup.
On June 15 2017 09:58 Tumblewood wrote: rayn's rage post left a bad impression on me, i think the townreads for that are unwarranted. i don't know how to explain it exactly but his rage posts were more... focused, i think, when he was town, and this one was more rambling. like he decided to be angry about something and never changed the tone for the other parts.
On June 16 2017 00:02 Tumblewood wrote: i won't claim to have actually considered every player, but i'm thinking: rels, grack, vivax, annul, disfo, koshi, ruxxar, btdt (in no particular order) are probably town and definitely should not be lynched d1 preferably we lynch rayn or one of the afks
This list does not though. Lynch Rayn for fake rage or policy lynch.
On June 16 2017 05:11 Holyflare wrote: You guys should be lynching sicklucker though. When was the last time he:
A) Cared about a day 1 lynch. B) Pushed his read day 1 and wants to lead a wagon.
+he doesn't even know what Xatalos has actually posted and instead said he posted unconventional reads so is town, which isn't true in the slightest.
Feel free to join this wagon. Only the pros need apply.
##vote sicklucker
are u voting sl for doing things?
You know it.
i cam understand it but i don't think that makes him mafia at all
Other than SL screamings "I'm so town and he's so scum" What exactly was SL doing by now? The fact that HF responds with "You know it" and you can understand? If you thought SL was doing townie things just man up and say "that's stinks like yesterdays fish" Or at least "SL pushing his top scum read is mafia how?" Instead it's super soft defense "I get it but he's not mafia at all" Implying his town read is not that strong.
On June 16 2017 05:32 Vivax wrote: I'm really just fed up with everyone doing their own thing then a bunch of derpies coming in and hurr, yolo vote this yolo vote that and not care about trying to build up a bit of unity in the town.
Or DF who thinks hes entitled to ask me questions but apparently doesn't want to read my filter and engage.
So I'm just going to sheep HF, maybe rayn, maybe Palmar depending on who cares the most or something like that. As long as it looks like there's a train of ppl and not just a bunch of solitary ones in little bubbles.
trying but i can't force myself to have opinions on any of the boring ass fights people keep ragging on
This post just says I'm trying but I'm not trying.
On June 18 2017 03:13 Tumblewood wrote: notes after reading like 10 pages: i like ever's case on pg 101. so df and rux are 98% town ruxxar continues to be weird and inane - fundamentally not getting the power dynamic. [ACTUALLY his later stuff is solid vote analysis] i like that one rels post on pg 106 sl is insane town. egotistic in an sl sort of way
SL gets an 'insane town' placement for being egotistical? I get it, gone for 2 days basically. But why not post more than a single sentense especially when you come out with basically calling 3 people confirmed town. What did he like about my case? What did he like about Rux's analysis? What did he like about Rels post? This post asked more questions than it answers.
On June 18 2017 14:45 Tumblewood wrote: no way am i believing for a second cop has a redcheck on disfo. and even if he does, no cop ever has been this concerned about unaware millers
Because wondering about millers is the only part about Xata's claim that is questionable. Why did he feel the need to include "if he does"? This is the laziest way to try to distance yourself. The claim was so trash.
On June 20 2017 14:23 Tumblewood wrote: oh dear i have eliminated much less than i thought. fuck, i was hoping to coast this game, but now i have to sift through like 10 names
I wish it wouldn't take entire cycles for TW to post responses. Because this is now the third time TW has popped in, said some useless or questionable things, and then high tailed it as fast as possible.
never scum. Never doing a huge case on the main wagon hours before he is inevitably lynched.
After the "silence" and before the flip. Why does ruxxar post that as scum ? As town the explanation is obvious: he's 100% sure Grack flips town and he's making a joke on FF. Is it likely he fakes this as scum ? Risking a modkill ? Not sure. Makes me think he's the baddie. Now I don't know if I wanna really use this read. Cause if it's true it's borderline. And if it's wrong it's very unfair from ruxxar to have made that post.
On June 22 2017 09:26 Rels wrote: borderline read incoming.
On June 22 2017 08:00 ruXxar wrote:
On June 22 2017 08:00 Fecalfeast wrote:
Please don't shoot me.
After the "silence" and before the flip. Why does ruxxar post that as scum ? As town the explanation is obvious: he's 100% sure Grack flips town and he's making a joke on FF. Is it likely he fakes this as scum ? Risking a modkill ? Not sure. Makes me think he's the baddie. Now I don't know if I wanna really use this read. Cause if it's true it's borderline. And if it's wrong it's very unfair from ruxxar to have made that post.
This was just a joke on FF's "im going to shoot ruxxar if grack flips town".
On June 22 2017 09:26 Rels wrote: borderline read incoming.
On June 22 2017 08:00 ruXxar wrote:
On June 22 2017 08:00 Fecalfeast wrote:
Please don't shoot me.
After the "silence" and before the flip. Why does ruxxar post that as scum ? As town the explanation is obvious: he's 100% sure Grack flips town and he's making a joke on FF. Is it likely he fakes this as scum ? Risking a modkill ? Not sure. Makes me think he's the baddie. Now I don't know if I wanna really use this read. Cause if it's true it's borderline. And if it's wrong it's very unfair from ruxxar to have made that post.
This was just a joke on FF's "im going to shoot ruxxar if grack flips town".
oh. Then it doesn't mean fuck
Then it is a very weird thought to have for you actually. Like, you're 100% sure Grack flips scum. Why are you making a joke that only makes sense if Grack flips town ?
On June 22 2017 09:31 sicklucker wrote: it dont matter if were both mafia 1 mafia both town ruxxar is always going to be town...
Why are you so sure?
i have a borderline ok ability to read people
And what did you read in me that opened your eyes?
dumbtells the way you see the game the same way as me and come to the right logical conclusions even tho we were wrong =[
Why is ruxxar town for agreeing with you, even though you were wrong ? When you just said scum was on Grack's wagon to prevent a wagon on me ?
On June 22 2017 09:19 sicklucker wrote: also no one wanted to vote rels but they sure didnt mind voting grack. it just opens the pool of possible mafia a bit but your still mafia
On June 22 2017 09:26 Rels wrote: borderline read incoming.
On June 22 2017 08:00 ruXxar wrote:
On June 22 2017 08:00 Fecalfeast wrote:
Please don't shoot me.
After the "silence" and before the flip. Why does ruxxar post that as scum ? As town the explanation is obvious: he's 100% sure Grack flips town and he's making a joke on FF. Is it likely he fakes this as scum ? Risking a modkill ? Not sure. Makes me think he's the baddie. Now I don't know if I wanna really use this read. Cause if it's true it's borderline. And if it's wrong it's very unfair from ruxxar to have made that post.
This was just a joke on FF's "im going to shoot ruxxar if grack flips town".
oh. Then it doesn't mean fuck
Then it is a very weird thought to have for you actually. Like, you're 100% sure Grack flips scum. Why are you making a joke that only makes sense if Grack flips town ?
Call it last second doubts.
I knew I would look like a total ass if he flipped town.
k this can make sense. Then this post mean absolutely nothing.
On June 22 2017 09:38 sicklucker wrote: we have to look on the plus side. we know some mafia have to have voted annul. getting grack out of the picture just narrows that down. If you guys can properly conclude I just thought annul was mafia rather then being an opportunistic mafia then were in a great spot.
Rels if your actually town you gotta get on board with this logic and lynch everyone on that lynch but me
On June 22 2017 09:31 sicklucker wrote: it dont matter if were both mafia 1 mafia both town ruxxar is always going to be town...
Why are you so sure?
i have a borderline ok ability to read people
And what did you read in me that opened your eyes?
dumbtells the way you see the game the same way as me and come to the right logical conclusions even tho we were wrong =[
Why is ruxxar town for agreeing with you, even though you were wrong ? When you just said scum was on Grack's wagon to prevent a wagon on me ?
On June 22 2017 09:19 sicklucker wrote: also no one wanted to vote rels but they sure didnt mind voting grack. it just opens the pool of possible mafia a bit but your still mafia
logic is not an absolute its just something that is right based on percentages. we played the better math game. We were wrong on one of the people voting annul. It does not mean the other people voting annul are clean. It means they have a much higher percentage chance of being mafia
RUXXAR VOTED ANNUL TOO WHY IS HE TOWN FOR AGREEING WITH YOUR LOGIC WHEN THE LOGIC IS "KILL ANNUL S VOTERS" ?
in your logic his scum percentage just got super high. This is your own words.
On June 22 2017 09:39 sicklucker wrote: It does not mean the other people voting annul are clean. It means they have a much higher percentage chance of being mafia
But ?
On June 22 2017 09:30 sicklucker wrote: ruxxar is definitely town rels regardless of are alignments
On June 22 2017 09:31 sicklucker wrote: it dont matter if were both mafia 1 mafia both town ruxxar is always going to be town...
On June 22 2017 09:43 sicklucker wrote: He was near the start and hes agreeing with me.
Look from his perspective he knows hes town. now he knows gracks town. He kind of thought I was town.
Xata was the mafia roleblocker so mafia should not be letting him die for free.
So someone on that wagon has to be mafia...
At least he came to this conlusion. You didnt. You didnt even want to lynch grack who looked the worst of everyone on the annul wagon. Because your mafia and you didnt want to be next
How does that make sense when Im TRYING TO LYNCH someone on annuls wagon ?
On June 22 2017 09:43 sicklucker wrote: He was near the start and hes agreeing with me.
Look from his perspective he knows hes town. now he knows gracks town. He kind of thought I was town.
Xata was the mafia roleblocker so mafia should not be letting him die for free.
So someone on that wagon has to be mafia...
At least he came to this conlusion. You didnt. You didnt even want to lynch grack who looked the worst of everyone on the annul wagon. Because your mafia and you didnt want to be next
How does that make sense when Im TRYING TO LYNCH someone on annuls wagon ?
ya me. but no one else on it. And from my perspective I know im town so your just trying to lynch the town of the group
you and ruxxar. There were Xata on that wagon. So I'm pushing a world where there are 3 scums on annul. That's not good enough for you ?
On June 22 2017 09:48 sicklucker wrote: but why was grack town over two players who are like trying. and have good original ideas. have dumbtells , huge filters , and are overall just more town then grack was
'cause I'm not playing the game mechanically like you and ruxxar, listing a people that voted for a counter wagon and lytnching them by activity. Saying you and ruxxar have been townie is laughable. If you're asking specifically about why I thought Grack was town, it's in my filter.
the fact that you can't comprehend how could people scumread you and ruxxar over Grack is bad for you. YOU RE the king of making tinfoil reads, seeing past the BS. You're not this game. You're playing the easy way.
On June 22 2017 09:50 sicklucker wrote: also the fact theres less mafia on annul then we thought probably means the afk/replacements had mafia in them. (cough marv cough)
Like marvs slot should have been policy lynched already but even without that he looks mafia
like, all of this shit SL keep spouting don't make sense. The things he's saying don't make sense with the view of the game he's pretending to have. Let's not even talk about the fact that he still is not becoming town god.
On June 22 2017 09:57 sicklucker wrote: ff im just reading town and voted annul much earlier so is less suspicious for that in my book. on the other hand eversince was the hammer and is probably the grack replacement..
what about the fact that she just made a HUGE case on Grack for no reason ?
On June 22 2017 09:49 sicklucker wrote: I agree with the logic that the flip makes annul more likely to be mafia. maybe he is I dont think hes a better lynch then you tho
You still have to explain this though. WHY is ruxxar not super scum in your book ? Why did he do this game to get that townread ? Other than agree with a logic you also had ?
On June 22 2017 09:54 Rels wrote: Why the fact that FF avoid suspicion while SL is getting pushed mean that FF is more likjely scum than SL ? Or is that not what you're saying ?
Not saying it's more likely.
Just saying that we need to consider ALL the options.
On June 22 2017 09:57 sicklucker wrote: ff im just reading town and voted annul much earlier so is less suspicious for that in my book. on the other hand eversince was the hammer and is probably the grack replacement..
what about the fact that she just made a HUGE case on Grack for no reason ?
You know this is exactly what mafia does?
Goes throw filter and tries to make a huge case of quotes? At least that is exactly how i play as mafia.
Typical sign of mafia are huge artifical posts case posts from filters. Very little small talk and convos.
True. But typical sign of mafia is also not doing anything if they don't need to. ES didn't have to make those two cases.
On June 22 2017 06:41 Eversince wrote: I'm going to vote Grack if that wasn't obvious enough from my filter. I was hoping SL had more to say, I'm not impressed. But I'm pretty sure they are both mafia. And I feel like SL can get a fire lit under him since he did jack all D2/D3 now. Also that Grack made very clear yesterday/ today that he has no intentions of playing this game.
Then why didn't she place her god damn vote instead of waiting until vote was already over, just like day 1?
Might be worth checking if she does that as town. If that's her playstyle I don't see the problem. If it's not you're onto something
but again just like that it's nothing. It's like your Grack case. "BUT GRACK USES ALL THIS VAGUE SENTENCES". Don't mean shit if it's just his playstyle.
On June 22 2017 10:13 Rels wrote: makes me remember rayn called your case good
I thought it was pretty good.
I mean, how many cases can you make from a 2 page filter...
Well MAYBE you didn't have to make a case if there wasn't enough stuff to make a case. and LOL are you saying you purposefully tried to fabricate this case.
On June 21 2017 07:13 Grackaroni wrote: I think the only reason I'm being auto'd in the first place is because of RuXxar.
The reason you are being auto'd is because you are scum.
this continues to be the trend. No doubts just auto lynches lined up. You can't be town
Imagine yourself as obs, analyzing the game. Completely neutral, no involvement in the outcome whatsoever.
Who do you think has the highest chance of flipping scum today, all things considered?
SL you rayn
You don't think grack looks the least bit scummy at all? Not a tiny bit?
Nope. If I was an obs and didn't have the mindmeld with him I would think he is someone that needs to be lynched at some point. A random dude with no activity that could flip scum.
On June 22 2017 10:13 Rels wrote: makes me remember rayn called your case good
I thought it was pretty good.
I mean, how many cases can you make from a 2 page filter...
Well MAYBE you didn't have to make a case if there wasn't enough stuff to make a case. and LOL are you saying you purposefully tried to fabricate this case.
I went through his filter and looked for reasons he could be mafia, yes.
maybe since the reasons you found were bad you shouldn't have posted them.
On June 22 2017 18:55 Blazinghand wrote: I was the hammer. Rayn made in hammering Impoasbkle. Everything else is window dressing. TW and SL didn't hammer. I did. Get the facts straight
"votes in hammer range on town: Tumblewood, sicklucker, Blazinghand" Tumblewood provided the hammer, sicklucker lifted it, you banged it on the table.
I think I have my facts straight here and you're trying to misrepresent my case. Why do you do this?
that's what bothering me about BH the most. He has next to no read, the read he has are bad, and he's nitpicking things that have no interest.
On June 23 2017 00:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: [...] After my vote on Grackaroni i had the thought at some point that he is actually town because of the people (outside you and disformation) voting for sicklucker didn't give any shits about the lynch at all. [...]
On June 23 2017 01:18 disformation wrote: mh... did i get bamboozled by rels yesterday?
IDK why I'm not the top townread in this fuckign game. I did EVERYTING yesterday. Just for people to become fucking robot and going down the fucking lynch list of people with no activity and who voted for annul. First dude was Grack. I suppose tomorrow ES is gonna be lynched. Fuck that.
On June 23 2017 03:26 Chezitwo wrote: Like, I get the feeling that Rayn is trying to poke little holes in the accusations against SL where he can and is completely ignoring the rest. His agenda is not to investigate Mr. Sickluckers alignment but to deflect negative attention away from him.
SL is doing NOTHING but being mechanical. Not thinking logically about the game. Not even in his logic. ruxxar should be one of his scumread now, but he's 100% town for some reason. He's just being a god damn robot hiding behind mechanical play and some funny posts where he makes jokes and claims he's unlynchable.
rayn is doing nothing but scumreading me for no goddamn reason. Last game we played together I scumread him pretty much the entire game. And all game he engaged me to see if I was scum. He raged, he posted stuff, he called me names. But he didn't think I was scum. His attitude here makes 0 sense. And he's defending SL for 0 reason. Saying "BUT THE CASES ON HIM ARE BAD" is not a reason. Saying "BUT HE DIDNT SHOW TMI" is a pretty weak reason. He's townreading ruxxar for 0 reason too. Ruxxar who spent the entirety of yesterday posting that FUCKING list of people voting for Grack. Grack flips town. But rayn is not re evaluating. He even called ruxxar's case against Grack good. When it's one of the worst case I've ever witnessed in my entire life. Always scum.
On June 23 2017 06:07 Blazinghand wrote: So what, is the premise that the last minute switches onto Grack from SL an attempt by scum to save SL?
The problem with this logic is gracks behaviour which could be interpreted as mafia giving up. Which sucks a lot because otherwise the lynch might have been more contested in the end.
hmm, on the other hand it's possible scum got onto the grack wagon in the middle as well. This would allow them to increase the wagon size and protect SL (operating on the SL-as-scum theory) without outing themselves hard by diving on the end to save SL.
Alternatively, if we think that town ALSO had motivation to jump on Grack at the end, it's plausible that some scum also snuck in with town
mm looks like we can't get any useful info from that. let's talk about it for 30 more pages.
On June 15 2017 03:49 disformation wrote: @xata: ruxxar gave his reason to vote koshi later on.
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote: I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.
##vote koshi
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Wow i got him boys.
Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
but as fefe pointed out:
On June 15 2017 02:40 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote: I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.
##vote koshi
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Wow i got him boys.
Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
I actually like this explanation. Sorta wish you said this instead of just 'read Koshi's filter decided he's mafia' as now I'm suspicious you went back to read his filter after my post to find a post that is suspect.
For the second part:
People generally think this is scummy and it's not. It just generates suspicion because people don't like to see unjustified reads.
Mafia won't ever just carelessly throw out a scum read without giving any thought about how they are going to defend it unless they are under some kind of heavy pressure to produce a read.
Also I liked Ruxxar's reasoning for his Koshi vote.
On June 15 2017 03:49 disformation wrote: @xata: ruxxar gave his reason to vote koshi later on.
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote: I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.
##vote koshi
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Wow i got him boys.
Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
but as fefe pointed out:
On June 15 2017 02:40 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote: I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.
##vote koshi
Care to elaborate?
Oh also ##vote ruxxar
Sure.
This post:
On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Wow i got him boys.
Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game. You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense. And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.
I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.
Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.
I actually like this explanation. Sorta wish you said this instead of just 'read Koshi's filter decided he's mafia' as now I'm suspicious you went back to read his filter after my post to find a post that is suspect.
For the second part:
People generally think this is scummy and it's not. It just generates suspicion because people don't like to see unjustified reads.
Mafia won't ever just carelessly throw out a scum read without giving any thought about how they are going to defend it unless they are under some kind of heavy pressure to produce a read.
Also I liked Ruxxar's reasoning for his Koshi vote.
who do you think is scum?
I'm kinda looking at you tbh.
Look at me as much as you like, but why?
I'm mostly just looking for someone kinda in the middle blending in.
Disfo:
On June 15 2017 07:36 Grackaroni wrote: I like Rayn too though. And I'm ok with a Disfo lynch.
HF:
On June 16 2017 07:32 Grackaroni wrote: Holy flare seems like a very good vote. He's being ridiculously over the top trying to push this SL lynch.
I haven't liked either of his Vivax/Koshi pushes. And he dragged the Vivax one out for the hell of it.
On June 19 2017 03:36 Palmar wrote: Ill figure out why we're all so happy together tomorrow
Where've you been PALMAR?
Scummy scum scum.
"I'm ok with". "Seems like". There's 0 commitment to anything here. Just superficial non-sense without any substance. So obviously he followed up and actually tried to push his scum reads? Nope. Well, at least he voted for his scum reads? Nope.
It's like a total non-commitment to any of his "reads" and just screams "I'm just trying to blend in". And thats the total effort he's put into scumhunting the whole game.
oh yeah while we're talking about ruxxar. The most obtuse dude ever. Each time I imagine the possiblity of him being town I think about all these posts where he shows NO will to ever consider he could be wrong. So solid in his mind. It's not a town mind. And it's not even his meta. I had really good memories of playing my first games with ruxxar and he was not like that.
On June 23 2017 06:20 Rels wrote: oh yeah while we're talking about ruxxar. The most obtuse dude ever. Each time I imagine the possiblity of him being town I think about all these posts where he shows NO will to ever consider he could be wrong. So solid in his mind. It's not a town mind. And it's not even his meta. I had really good memories of playing my first games with ruxxar and he was not like that.
Tell me about it.
The thing is that people like that are town most of the time. It's very hard to pull off as mafia.
The thing is - sometimes it looks fake. Like when he was aking me about "what, you don't wasnt me to vote SL ?" He spent asking me this when it was SO obvious
On June 22 2017 08:45 Rels wrote: ruxxar is basically a troll
So you don't want to lynch sicklucker?
Yes I want to lynch SL. One of my main reason thinking you're scum is that you have fixated read that don't chnage, and that you're following a list. That's not how you play mafia. But that's an easy game to play as scum. So I don't like you saying "just gotta lynch SL and it's GG", even if I want to murder SL. I also think you're playing dumb intentionally right now because this is like really, really, really obvious to figure out.
Not trying to understand into the meaning whatsoever. But just after he's perfectly capable of understanding the meaning:
On June 22 2017 09:07 Rels wrote: lol. Yes it's simple. You're scumreading me because you don't believe I couldn't know that info as town. Which is what I find really dumb. Cause dumbtells happen literally all the time. Discussion closed.
This what he's saying: He's saying you are MAFIA, and KNEW the rules. You PRETENDED to be TOWN(dumb tell) by PRETENDING to not know the rules.
Palmar is the most useless piece of shit ever. And that I want to lynch FOUR people over him speaks greatly about these players. Only Skynx I would lynch Palmar before if I had to decide right now.
On June 23 2017 06:31 Blazinghand wrote: Rels is it just your assumption that anyone who thinks that your action there was scummy, must automatically be scummy? is this literaly OMGUS?
First, what action are you talking about ? Second, only rayn I scumread partly for scumreading me instead of talking to me. All my other scumread are not based on the fact that they're scumreading me.
and it's amazing how I JUST MADE summary posts on everyone I have a problem with and you STILL are asking that question. When you could check the answer right there.
On June 23 2017 06:31 Blazinghand wrote: Rels is it just your assumption that anyone who thinks that your action there was scummy, must automatically be scummy? is this literaly OMGUS?
First, what action are you talking about ? Second, only rayn I scumread partly for scumreading me instead of talking to me. All my other scumread are not based on the fact that they're scumreading me.
On June 22 2017 18:05 disformation wrote: so lets start again:
town: fefe chezitwo
if ppl scumread any of those two i would like to see reasons/cases
I have a red check on both of them
nice. So he crumbed his checks. It's pretty unlikely that they're both scum. Could be that marv was framed if scum has a framer, he was a good frame target IMO. But the most likely is that they're both town.
On June 23 2017 08:20 Blazinghand wrote: OK SO THEORY. AS we know, SickLucker crumbed his N1 and N2 checks here, which was SAME on FEFE and Chezitwo. However, pay attention to how he wrote it:
On June 22 2017 18:05 disformation wrote: so lets start again:
town: fefe chezitwo
if ppl scumread any of those two i would like to see reasons/cases
I have a red check on both of them
I don't know about you folks but I pretty much immediately ignored this. I assumed it was a troll or a joke, not a serious claim in any way. In fact, he doesn't claim they're both the same alignment, he claims they're both Red checks.
Now imagine FeFe and Chez are townies. If FeFe and Chez are both Green, and Mafia sees SL, who to them is just some townie, claim he has redchecks on them, why would they shoot him? Who cares, he's some weirdo doing weird things.
BUT THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENEd
MAFIA SHOT HIM.
Which means, when they saw SL say "i have redchecks on FeFe and Chez" they probably started freaking out because fefe and chez are actually mafia. Their Rb, Xat, is dead; so they can't just wait one more day for town to maybe lynch SL, cause then SL will die and leave us THREE checks (remember, they think he's a cop at this point). So they HAVE to shoot him right away even though he's like the top lynch target.
Mafia has no reason to rolecheck SL, he was considered suspicious and likely to get lynched. But, if FeFe and Chez ARE IN FACT MAFIA, then Mafia had a REALLY good reason to pay attention to this off-handed statement and freak out and shoot SL!
I think that SL crumbed so we'd know he got "same" on FeFe and Chez.
But I ALSO think that the way he was shot could only really happen if FeFe and Chez are Mafia and Mafia freaked the fuck out
this makes as much or more sense than the rolecop theory
now one of FeFe or Chez could still be town here, as an un-self-aware miller; and mafia think "ok, chez/fefe is one of us, but fefe/chez is a miller" and this still confirms, in their minds, that SL is a REGULAR COP with two red checks
they couldn't afford to let him live.
that makes no sense. First, SL is known for posting random stuff like that. Second, why would the scumteam think he was cop with 2 red checks, but didn't claim immediately ? You always claim for 2 red checks.
On June 23 2017 09:12 VayneAuthority wrote: so after some brief reactions, before this gets out of hand
I am town vig and shot SL. Mafia NK either got blocked by veteran or medic saved.
Im going to say its unlikely anyone currently posting is mafia as mafia is probably confused as fuck and waiting to see what happened.
so FF/Chez are probably confirmed town then.
My bad on the shot I guess, he was so close to getting lynched yesterday im surprised he never outright claimed when we likely have a doctor, oh well. Didnt feel like wasting another entire day on him
oh. Then we have a doc or a vet, who will confirm that story at some point. Nice.
On June 23 2017 09:19 VayneAuthority wrote: but basically I just wanted to confirm that yesterday's voting meant fuck all, it was town vs town. game is far from solved
if that was your mindset then why the fuck would you not shoot Xata N1 ????
that makes no sense. D1 lynch was even more meaningful in your mindset, a lot depended on the counter wagon being town or scum. Why didn't you shoot him right there ?
On June 23 2017 17:31 Skynx wrote: He was in my list anyway buy his night accusations on me now look like tmi as they could no way expext a sl kill and sl vs grack revealing tvt wouldnt be until too late, maybe he hoped to lynch me before that who knows.
what ? I don't follow you at all. Can you explain more ?
I'm dunno why you're saying there is no good cases to be had - BH rayn and ruxxar all have stuff makes them probably scum. But maybe getting a wagon on Palmar is the best thing to do.
that ninja vote makes no sense too. Palmar is almost definitely not town at this point. What I fear is that he's not scum either, and got wrecked by a boring 3P. His play makes no sense.
TBH I also think rayn is most likely to flip scum. BH being a close second. But I also think Palmar almost always flips non-town there. So I'm doubtful about the best thing to do.
On June 23 2017 22:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also also i am glad i still have good reads. <3
You apparently do if you are town. I have to apologize - I lost my interest in lynching you while reading your filter. The really good posts happened mostly in the part of the game I still haven't read it seems.
On June 24 2017 00:04 Eversince wrote: Ok I can't make sense of SL's crumbs/reads.
FF/Chez town is general consensus. That's fine and all, I already read both of them town anyway. Problem that I'm having here is SL's read on TW was 100% confirmed town. But SL didn't check FF/Chez. SL visited TW N1, Chez N2. SL also was very sure Marv's slot is mafia. Never gave this any other chance. Which is why if he got a return of different TW is the town and Chez is the scum. I don't know why he implied FF got included in that at all. Not sure why he would lie about his checks as town. And if TW/Chez came back as same I have a hard time putting TW as town.
I visited Rels N3. He was a total shut in.
Before it gets mentioned, I obviously have no reason to claim right now as mafia. But town needs the info because everyone seems to be having just about as much trouble as I am. I'm obviously not much use right now other than being lynch bait on everyone's mind. So let's kill two birds with one stone.
hahaha p: that claim makes absolutely no sense for scum to fake. Especially since she is gonna be killed tonight if she's really tracker. Always town
On June 24 2017 00:14 Chezitwo wrote: If rayn is town then I guess it is somewhat likely that Rels is mafia too. I have a weak spot for Rels logic which is why I always have trouble reading him mafia. He just thinks very similarly to me and is very good at emulating his town thoughts as mafia. But I had the feeling he was just repeating the things I said during last night today when he caught up with the thread.
On June 20 2017 08:21 disformation wrote: reading the op is powerful.
you're looking at this in a too surface-level way. pretending not to have read the op, but in a way that only town could have missed (since scum obviously would be aware of their own kp) is an attempt to build towncred via "too little information" (the opposite of TMI, if you would) without actually contributing to scumhunting or taking part in a significant way. In fact, by spreading misinformation or asking for cop claims, one might say it's quite the opposite in terms of actual help.
Are you seriously considering my line as "asking for cop claims"?
I think cop shouldn't claim today. What do you think?
If cop found a mafia that is outside of grack/rels then I think he should claim.
na were gonna lynch them anyway. get more checks. unless they have a green check on them or some shit
On June 20 2017 09:16 sicklucker wrote: man I still cant believe they killed vivax. this game is won
Well that explain why he was so happy to let the game go on without doing anything, if he has a "red" check on a dude and is seeing his other scumreads lined up for lynches.
On June 24 2017 00:54 disformation wrote: bah rels is absolutely capable of doing jack d1 as town. once misslynched him for that and he flipped vig. not always good to trust hf. -.-
I think that was the game where I drove like 8 hours to the seaside for my vacations. And at night 1 hour before deadline I motivated myself to read everything and post. Got rewarded by a fucking lynch. =D TBH I don't know why, but I realize I just hate playing D1. Each game I feel super motivated to solve a new puzzle, but when the game starts I don't care at the beginning. Dunno why.
On June 22 2017 03:37 sicklucker wrote: also the reason mafia thinks they can get away with voting me is probably because disinfo is voting me and maybe palmar who are both towns and started this wagon. once again its the guys late on the wagon and not the bad people who vote me for bad reasons like hf
Chez rels grack skyx? mafia team probably it makes sense why a weak mafia team in there spot would stick together and yolo here
What do you think of TW and VA?
I like your list but why chez?
i think they are both town. tw is a lock town to me. mostly for his vote on grack here
oh yeah. Can't believe we HAD to have a tracker tracking him TWO NIGHTS IN A ROW to have his real checks. So bad. =D
So. Tumble and Chez got back as different alignemnts. A miller has flipped. That means that mechanically speaking:
It's very, very unlikely they're both town. It would mean unlikely stuff like: a second milller, or a framer that offensively framed Chez, when usually framer protects the team.
It's highly likely one of them is scum.
It's kiiiinda possible that both are scum: if one of them is GF, or if they have a framer who defensively framed Chez. But much less likely than much one of them.
On June 24 2017 01:11 Rels wrote: So. Tumble and Chez got back as different alignemnts. A miller has flipped. That means that mechanically speaking:
It's very, very unlikely they're both town. It would mean unlikely stuff like: a second milller, or a framer that offensively framed Chez, when usually framer protects the team.
It's highly likely one of them is scum.
It's kiiiinda possible that both are scum: if one of them is GF, or if they have a framer who defensively framed Chez. But much less likely than much one of them.
On June 24 2017 01:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Wow its actually kita????
very likely I think, from the logic he uses + I totally fooled him in at least one game, the resistance game we played together
Why the fooling part? What does that have to do with anything?
If youre town stop calling me mafia and stop being dumb.
chezitwo said he likes rels playstyle a lot or something
Why does Rels say "i totally fooled him" if he thinks chez is town and he is town?
rels is clearly talking about another game? Oo
So what? "I think he is kitaman. It makes sense for him to like my logic and i fooled him in another game". Why??? What???
On June 24 2017 00:14 Chezitwo wrote: If rayn is town then I guess it is somewhat likely that Rels is mafia too. I have a weak spot for Rels logic which is why I always have trouble reading him mafia. He just thinks very similarly to me and is very good at emulating his town thoughts as mafia. But I had the feeling he was just repeating the things I said during last night today when he caught up with the thread.
On June 24 2017 01:11 Rels wrote: So. Tumble and Chez got back as different alignemnts. A miller has flipped. That means that mechanically speaking:
It's very, very unlikely they're both town. It would mean unlikely stuff like: a second milller, or a framer that offensively framed Chez, when usually framer protects the team.
It's highly likely one of them is scum.
It's kiiiinda possible that both are scum: if one of them is GF, or if they have a framer who defensively framed Chez. But much less likely than much one of them.
Youre making about -8% sense here.
why ?
You really think mafia has a framer in a game with a parity cop and miller????? Bullllshiiottt
On June 24 2017 01:11 Rels wrote: So. Tumble and Chez got back as different alignemnts. A miller has flipped. That means that mechanically speaking:
It's very, very unlikely they're both town. It would mean unlikely stuff like: a second milller, or a framer that offensively framed Chez, when usually framer protects the team.
It's highly likely one of them is scum.
It's kiiiinda possible that both are scum: if one of them is GF, or if they have a framer who defensively framed Chez. But much less likely than much one of them.
How come you always assume I am the one framed in your scenarios? Why can't tumble be framed?
dunno. Probably 'cause marv would be a perfect frame target
On June 24 2017 01:11 Rels wrote: So. Tumble and Chez got back as different alignemnts. A miller has flipped. That means that mechanically speaking:
It's very, very unlikely they're both town. It would mean unlikely stuff like: a second milller, or a framer that offensively framed Chez, when usually framer protects the team.
It's highly likely one of them is scum.
It's kiiiinda possible that both are scum: if one of them is GF, or if they have a framer who defensively framed Chez. But much less likely than much one of them.
Youre making about -8% sense here.
why ?
You really think mafia has a framer in a game with a parity cop and miller????? Bullllshiiottt
no, I don't this it's likely
Yeah but why is like half of your post "they could still both be mafia"?
no reason. It's not the most likely scenario at all. As it's very clearly written.
On June 24 2017 01:11 Rels wrote: So. Tumble and Chez got back as different alignemnts. A miller has flipped. That means that mechanically speaking:
It's very, very unlikely they're both town. It would mean unlikely stuff like: a second milller, or a framer that offensively framed Chez, when usually framer protects the team.
It's highly likely one of them is scum.
It's kiiiinda possible that both are scum: if one of them is GF, or if they have a framer who defensively framed Chez. But much less likely than much one of them.
Youre making about -8% sense here.
why ?
You really think mafia has a framer in a game with a parity cop and miller????? Bullllshiiottt
no, I don't this it's likely
Yeah but why is like half of your post "they could still both be mafia"?
no reason. It's not the most likely scenario at all. As it's very clearly written.
Exactly why the why.
Well it's already answered: "no reason". Apart from the fact that this situation being likely comes from the fact that the other situations are not.
On June 24 2017 01:42 Rels wrote: Leaving work, see you in a few hours. (= Chezkita, if you could bring up the townie posts you found in rayn's filter it would be great
Even if i was wrong on you i have the best reads in the game.
On June 25 2017 02:52 disformation wrote: @rels: you still scumreading skynx and ruxxar? can i have a tldr on why?
ruxxar yeah kinda, Skynx I'm not sure, there were some posts that had the "I don't care" town attitude. ruxxar is for his unwillingness to re evaluate the game + the trollish posts. What Chekita said makes some sense though, how being stubborn to the point of being scumread usually comes for town, so I'm not as sure now.
I started catching up last night and I got too frustrated to continue. I'm getting scumread for everything and their inverse.
Ruxxar thinks I'm too right. disfo thinks I'm too clean. rayn thinks all my reads are bad, even listing false stuff in his list.
All these things don't even make sense to be true at the same time. So. Ask me directly if you want to ask something. Aside from that I'm ignoring you.
On June 27 2017 01:04 ruXxar wrote: I like BH today, shows very towny spirit in trying to figure the game out. Also his eod discussion from last night was very spontaneous and felt very free flowing, not constructed.
Palmar didn't convince me at all. On the contrary. Seems like he jumped on the first opportunity he saw, even bending the reality bit when he said "btdt ended the day as a single random vote on Koshi instead of trying to kill his scumread", because: - after the post he quotes, BTDT had another post where he shows he scumread Koshi some more - BTD wasn't there at EOD, and when he was there Koshi was the main wagon I also have the impression he's buddying me while keeping the option to jump on me. That's twice now he said: "First of all, I still like the fact that he recognizes I'm not mafia, that there is no way I play this way as mafia." Implying, if I start to scumread him, this no longer holds.
I would prefer to lynch BH though. Still nothing said that is worth anything apart from this big flashy post. That don't conclude in anything: + Show Spoiler +
On June 26 2017 17:04 Blazinghand wrote: living players:
Palmar Rels Disfo VA BTDT Rayn Blaze FF Skynx RuXxar ES
Living claimers (do not lynch): VA who claims as the Vigilante who shot SL during N3 ES who claims as the Tracker who tracked SL to TW N1, Chezi N2, and Rels to nobody N3, and was RBed N4
Likely town: Disfo RuXXar Fecal ... much lower, Skynx
Potential Scums (in the order I'd lynch them): Palmar BTDT Rels Rayn
--
So some reasoning here. On the d1 Annul vs Xat wagon, the following 6 people were on Xat: Xatalos (6): DF, Koshi, Skynx, Disfo, annul, HF.
Everyone who has flipped has been green. Every one of these votes was potentially like "the vote that might make the difference and get Xat lynched D1" and I see no reason to believe that Disfo is scum. Skynx has been very low-activity recently, but I feel like it would have been pretty high risk to be on the Xat wagon here. even if scum had "slack" in the lynch. So I'm basically on board with the idea that the whole wagon was green.
The people who were on the Annul wagon: annul (7):sicklucker, ruXxar, Fecalfeast, Xatalos, Rels, Grackaroni, Eversince Non-voters and third-party-voters (any of whom could have potentially swung this vote): Neither (8): Palmar, Vivax, TW, VA, Damdred, Rayn, Blaze, Chez
So of our lynched scum, one was on annul, and one was third-party. This ALREADY tells us scum had some "slack" in the Annul lynch. TW could have come back and moved his vote from Marv to annul. So scum was already not going "all out" on annul. If they weren't voting Xat, the place for them to be are the "neither" voters. People who didn't vote, or people who voted for an unrelated candidate (as TW did). If we're talking a 4-scum game, I'd guess 2 of them were on annul to push him over, and hte other two either were afk or hid their votes in the assortment of useless wagons.
I think there's a solid chance that someone else on the annul wagon is scum. I think Ruxxar has generally been really engaged all game; he's likely town. ES has claimed, and we don't yet have any reason to doubt it. Fecalfeast is part of the cohort (along with disfo, ruxxar, and chezi) that I spoke with after the dawn of Day 4. Remember, during a period of time, SL had flipped and we were trying to reason things out. Scum, we can now reasonably infer, had shot Chez and noticed it failed, and on top of that, that SL who they did not shoot has flipped. Scum doesn't know what happened, what prots if any went on, who shot whom, etc. This was exciting and interesting news for town, and confusing news for scum, what happened with the D1 flip. After the VA claim, scum had a lot more information to work on and probably came out of the woodwork, and after the ES claim, they were safe to operate and make statements with surety about what checks they were opearing against, and to bus/not bus etc. I think scum had every motivation in the world to NOT be posting right after that flip. It would be very risky. So the people who dove into convo with me, FF, Disfo, and Ruxxar, are highly unlikely to be scum in my view.
So leaving out people on the xat wagon, people who claimed, and people who reacted in a townie way to the start-of-D4 flip (and in a way that would be VERY costly potentially as scum), this leaves Palm, Rels, BTDT, and Rayn. Among them, are at least 2 scum.
I think we can all agree that Palm's play has left something to be desired. Rels, well, you may not agree with me on him, but he still isn't exonnerated by these thoughts. BTDT has gotten suspicion and played weird all game. I've liked rayn, but I always like rayn, and he (like palmar) was a "neither" vote during D1.
With 11 alive, we can consider the 2-mafia and the 3-mafia situation.
2-mafia situation: Today, 9-2. If we ML, tomorrow is 7-2 If we ML again, next day is 5-2 If we ML again, day after is 3-2 LYLO
3-mafia situation: today, 8-3 If we ML, tomorrow is 6-3 If we ML again, the next day is 4-3 LYLO
The latter situation seems more likely given that we seem to have 5 blues. However, if we are hunting for 3 mafia in a pool of 4, we can afford a mislynch. If we take down Palm, BTDT, Rels, Rayn, we win. Heck, this is true in a 9-2 situation also. In both situations we have plenty of ML's worth of cushion. Anyways, if people disagree with me please let me know and it's of course better to discuss things than to autolynch and lose momentum. But I think we baaasically have this wrapped up. And with a 5th blue in the shadows, we have even more degrees of freedom here.
Conclusion: 2 of these people are scum, and here is one reason for each they could be:
this leaves Palm, Rels, BTDT, and Rayn. Among them, are at least 2 scum.
I think we can all agree that Palm's play has left something to be desired. Rels, well, you may not agree with me on him, but he still isn't exonnerated by these thoughts. BTDT has gotten suspicion and played weird all game. I've liked rayn, but I always like rayn, and he (like palmar) was a "neither" vote during D1.
Then some more rambling about the state of the game. No risk at all taken.
On June 27 2017 01:36 Palmar wrote: Did anyone ever attempt any kind of a case against Rels? Just so I can read anything on him. I won't read his filter today unless I decide to actually tryhard tonight.
Rayn has been the most outspoken. BH also has been scumreading rels. I have a few jabs here and there.
Yeah not gonna lie those early scumreads were not as solid as they shoulda been. But at this point it's more like "Rels hasn't done things to make him town"--and by this point, most townies should have.
But his scumread seemed way more sure hours before:
On June 26 2017 17:04 Blazinghand wrote: Rels, well, you may not agree with me on him, but he still isn't exonnerated by these thoughts.
Let's not forget the numerous days of no-content posts since the beginning of the game. Never taking risk, but always there. Talking about irrelevant stuff and having almost no reads. Take a look at his filter and try to find a post that push the game forward. They are almost non existent. In fact here are some posts that look involved 'cause they're big, but don't push the game: + Show Spoiler +
On June 21 2017 18:34 disformation wrote: looking back at fefe: last post:
On June 21 2017 08:47 Fecalfeast wrote: So I went into VA's filter almost looking for reasons to scumread him and now that I made half a case about his read progression on grack and skynx...
I kinda think he's just low effort town.. The way he comes across seems so casual and while like 80% of his posts are setup talk or useless he seems to be looking at the game from a low information point of view and hasn't pushed any sort of agenda (scum or town) that I can see.
town. fairly sure.
Why is that townish? "I made a half-assed attempt to do something and my result is a not-really-committed townread"
How is that townish?
*sigh* why would scum do that? scum would just finish up the half finished case to look like having scumreads and done stuff. realizing half way through a case that you think the guy might actually be town is far more likely to come from town. aaaand the read isnt even as shitty as you make it out to be. "i cant see any agenda in va's filter" is a pretty strong statement.
Yeah I actually think this is a valid point. Like, here's how you should look at it.
On the really basic level, the first level, Scum aren't coming from the same mindset of hunting scum that Town come from. Which means it's hard for Scum to have good reads and feel confident pushing them. This means that Town might formulate a read and make a case, but Scum would worry about appearing scummy or something, and therefore try to leave open a line of retreat. See, if you're town, and you think someone is scum, even if it's unpopular to think that, you won't give it up. You have a belief; you have evidence; you're gonna go for it. Scum, though, they're not trying to lynch this guy they think is scum. Instead, theyr'e trying to not get lynched. so maybe theyw ant to build their cases and reads with a line of retreat so they can change their minds if it's unpopular.
So on a naive level you would expect Town to be decisive and Scum to be waffly.
But if you go down into the second level, it turns out taht sometimes as Town you're confused. And to a certain extent, town doesn't actually CARE about looking town. I mean, obvs you don't wanna get lynched but you're also highly concerned with finding scum. Whereas scum, their ONLY concern is about looking town. And if "looking town" means decisively posting aggressive cases, Scum will try to ape this as best they can. Town will only do this when it makes sense for them.
So, we might see someone posting waffle-like uncertain reads. This could mean "ah hah, this is scum planning to pull out of these reads if they aren't popular" and that's possible. But because this really stands out, and is obviously scummy, it's like... the kind of thing that scum tries (but not always succeeds) to avoid doing. And town to a certain extent doesn't actually give a shit. Town wants to lynch properly.
so "I did half-assed work and got a half-assed townread" is, you know, it's not something i'm gonna go giving people tons of townreads on that, but there's not a HUGE motivation for scum to do that because 1) a half-assed townread won't get anyone lynched and 2) it kinda stands out as "bad" in a sense. And I'm not saying "too bad to be scum" but you can see how a town has in some ways more chances of saying this than a scum, capisce
On June 22 2017 09:07 Rels wrote: lol. Yes it's simple. You're scumreading me because you don't believe I couldn't know that info as town. Which is what I find really dumb. Cause dumbtells happen literally all the time. Discussion closed.
Ok, so you DO understand me, you're just disagreeing loudly cause you know I caught you
Look at it this way Rels
There's like, one setup post, with like 7 lines in it. It's right there.
Now what do you think is more likely here, from an outside view? 1. A townie somehow doesn't know what's going on in the OP, and is actively planning around this lack of knowledge (hoping to have a way to stop 2 kp). Despite planning around this lack of knowledge he never looks at the OP, not when he signed up, not when the game started, not when 2 deaths came through N1, and so on. And so, somehow he goes through this existence of hoping/planning around this "knowledge" that he never even spent a second to check on. 2. A Mafia, is keenly aware of how Mafia KP works, but thinks, "ah hah, I could FAKE not knowing how mafia works, thereby PROVING that I am town"
Which is more likely? It's obviously #2. Mafia are willing to lie about everything: emotions, real life issues, being busy, being sick, reading the OP, etc. Townies, will always be curious and want to know how to play the game. And some may be oblivious, but most will not. Most of the time you see something of this caliber executed by someone at this time in the game, it is a mafia move to generate towniness
that read on me that makes no sense.
On June 23 2017 08:20 Blazinghand wrote: OK SO THEORY. AS we know, SickLucker crumbed his N1 and N2 checks here, which was SAME on FEFE and Chezitwo. However, pay attention to how he wrote it:
On June 22 2017 18:05 disformation wrote: so lets start again:
town: fefe chezitwo
if ppl scumread any of those two i would like to see reasons/cases
I have a red check on both of them
I don't know about you folks but I pretty much immediately ignored this. I assumed it was a troll or a joke, not a serious claim in any way. In fact, he doesn't claim they're both the same alignment, he claims they're both Red checks.
Now imagine FeFe and Chez are townies. If FeFe and Chez are both Green, and Mafia sees SL, who to them is just some townie, claim he has redchecks on them, why would they shoot him? Who cares, he's some weirdo doing weird things.
BUT THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENEd
MAFIA SHOT HIM.
Which means, when they saw SL say "i have redchecks on FeFe and Chez" they probably started freaking out because fefe and chez are actually mafia. Their Rb, Xat, is dead; so they can't just wait one more day for town to maybe lynch SL, cause then SL will die and leave us THREE checks (remember, they think he's a cop at this point). So they HAVE to shoot him right away even though he's like the top lynch target.
Mafia has no reason to rolecheck SL, he was considered suspicious and likely to get lynched. But, if FeFe and Chez ARE IN FACT MAFIA, then Mafia had a REALLY good reason to pay attention to this off-handed statement and freak out and shoot SL!
I think that SL crumbed so we'd know he got "same" on FeFe and Chez.
But I ALSO think that the way he was shot could only really happen if FeFe and Chez are Mafia and Mafia freaked the fuck out
this makes as much or more sense than the rolecop theory
now one of FeFe or Chez could still be town here, as an un-self-aware miller; and mafia think "ok, chez/fefe is one of us, but fefe/chez is a miller" and this still confirms, in their minds, that SL is a REGULAR COP with two red checks
On June 23 2017 08:20 Blazinghand wrote: OK SO THEORY. AS we know, SickLucker crumbed his N1 and N2 checks here, which was SAME on FEFE and Chezitwo. However, pay attention to how he wrote it:
On June 22 2017 19:19 sicklucker wrote:
On June 22 2017 18:05 disformation wrote: so lets start again:
town: fefe chezitwo
if ppl scumread any of those two i would like to see reasons/cases
I have a red check on both of them
I don't know about you folks but I pretty much immediately ignored this. I assumed it was a troll or a joke, not a serious claim in any way. In fact, he doesn't claim they're both the same alignment, he claims they're both Red checks.
Now imagine FeFe and Chez are townies. If FeFe and Chez are both Green, and Mafia sees SL, who to them is just some townie, claim he has redchecks on them, why would they shoot him? Who cares, he's some weirdo doing weird things.
BUT THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENEd
MAFIA SHOT HIM.
Which means, when they saw SL say "i have redchecks on FeFe and Chez" they probably started freaking out because fefe and chez are actually mafia. Their Rb, Xat, is dead; so they can't just wait one more day for town to maybe lynch SL, cause then SL will die and leave us THREE checks (remember, they think he's a cop at this point). So they HAVE to shoot him right away even though he's like the top lynch target.
Mafia has no reason to rolecheck SL, he was considered suspicious and likely to get lynched. But, if FeFe and Chez ARE IN FACT MAFIA, then Mafia had a REALLY good reason to pay attention to this off-handed statement and freak out and shoot SL!
I think that SL crumbed so we'd know he got "same" on FeFe and Chez.
But I ALSO think that the way he was shot could only really happen if FeFe and Chez are Mafia and Mafia freaked the fuck out
this makes as much or more sense than the rolecop theory
now one of FeFe or Chez could still be town here, as an un-self-aware miller; and mafia think "ok, chez/fefe is one of us, but fefe/chez is a miller" and this still confirms, in their minds, that SL is a REGULAR COP with two red checks
they couldn't afford to let him live.
Not only is this just factually wrong and mafia probably wouldn't be stupid enough to think that SL wouldn't claim with 2 redckecks it is also definitely NOT more likely than the rolecop theory.
hmm, do you really think so though, like remembe,r this means MAfia rolecopped SL during N1 or N2. And then, during Day 3, when it was a faceoff between SL, the guy they "know" is Parity cop, and Grack, the guy they think is just some guy, why does the Grack wagon get so much more support than the SL wagon? there were like TWO dudes on SL at the end, but at some point it was very close. I feel mafia would have pushed to get SL lynched right away.
on top of that, this innocuous "I have two redchecks" troll remark seems normal to town but to mafia has to be a HUGE red flag when those two redchecks are on two mafia right (remember, mafia didn't know he was parity cop, thought he was regular cop, in this hypothetical)
Doesn't this counter the point you're trying to make? If they knew he was parity cop, wouldn't they try to vote him out?
OMG READING COMPREHENSION
I AM POINTING OUT THAT
IN A WORLD IN WHICH MAFIA HAD A ROLE CHECK
THEY WOULD PUSH SICKLUCKER
SINCE THEY DIDN'T
THEY DIDN'T HAVE A ROLE CHECK
SO WHY DID THEY SHOOT HIM
ITS NOT CAUSE HE WAS TOWN LEADER
ITS CAUSE THEY GOT HIS ROLE SOME OTHER WAY
LIKE HIS OVERNIGHT CLAIM
THAT ONLY STUCK OUT IF YOU ARE MAFIA
I AM POINTING OUT THAT THE COUNTERFACTUAL OF ROLE CHECK DOESN'T MAKE SENSE
Same.
On June 23 2017 09:00 Blazinghand wrote: Here's like all of Palmar's post in the last week:
On June 16 2017 16:39 Palmar wrote: I clicked darthfoley's filter. I don't like it much, and I would expect him to be a relatively easy townread if he was town. I think he is a good candidate for being mafia.
On June 16 2017 20:26 Palmar wrote: I'm just playing single player mafia mostly. Occasionally clicking filters, ignoring the thread, throwing out some opinions.
Life is good.
I'll try to maybe make my statement posts a bit more detailed when I cba.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
On June 20 2017 22:40 Rels wrote: @BTDT we're not lynching Palmar 'cause he did nothing scummy and some other people did. Filter length is something to consider but is not an absolute measure.
Yeah, basically this. But we should not allow Palmar to keep this up either regardless of his alignment.
Surely the stern facial expression will make me snap out of it.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
So, are you claiming it is normal for marv to completely vanish from TL due to rolling mafia? Because if you are not you don't have a leg to stand on.
On June 20 2017 22:57 Palmar wrote: I voted for skynx. He sounds distinctly less towny than he did the last game i played with him. I'm not complaining that the content is different, he just sounds less sassy.
It's a weak vote atm, I'll probably read some more later.
On June 20 2017 22:51 beentheredonethat wrote: the "marv disappears when he's scum" shit is actually valid, I can confirm that from Generic I (I think. Might've been one of the other games I hosted). The scum qt in this game is full of "omg I rolled scum" shit.
Then again, I haven't seen him post here around tl so I don't know how valid it is
also this is one of the few points Palmar can make because he's been absent basically. So I'd treat this with care. chezitwo appeared townie to me
I have not read anything of Chezitwo's posts, it's very much just based on that. Which is why I don't particularly want to lynch him, it basically wouldn't be fair to the guy.
I'm kinda hoping the situation resolves itself through a vigi shot or something.
On June 20 2017 22:40 Rels wrote: @BTDT we're not lynching Palmar 'cause he did nothing scummy and some other people did. Filter length is something to consider but is not an absolute measure.
He did nothing townie, either. And a super bad reason to not lynch an obvious lurker. He managed to vote each cycle. He even comes in every now and then, throw accusations at people, doesn't follow up AND he freely admits to neither read nor care about this game.
I don't know why we don't lynch (or shoot) such a player.
To be fair, I freely admit to never reading any game I play.
But yes, been extra lazy this game. Just had stuff to do.
On June 16 2017 00:40 Palmar wrote: So I clicked two more filters.
beentheredonethat is strange. There's some weird stuff in his filter like gettin into an argument if he's carefree. But there's also some townie sounding, albeit not very useful stuff. He goes in the "could be either category"
AMG hasn't posted at all, lucky me that was an easy filter to read.
I still think voting sicklucker is a good idea and I'm gonna park my vote there. Btdt should probably sheep me as he thinks sicklucker's contributions are atrocious.
Hey, Palmar, we have a sicklucker train going. You care?
On June 16 2017 16:39 Palmar wrote: I clicked darthfoley's filter. I don't like it much, and I would expect him to be a relatively easy townread if he was town. I think he is a good candidate for being mafia.
Hey, Palmar, this guy flipped town.
On June 20 2017 06:43 Palmar wrote: Rels is evil!
I have no idea, I haven't read much lately.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
On June 16 2017 00:41 Palmar wrote: Btw, if we're killing inactive/modkill-territory people, we kill AMG, not marv.
Hey, Palmar, lynch into the AMG slot instead of the slot where you're suspecting scum!marv?
Ok the first two things are basically me bitching but the last one is valid and scummy
I actually think the first things are better, especially being wrong (mildly... I never voted him) on darthfoley.
The last part is completely irrelevant. I posted the first post on day 1 for very good reasons (marv is both a great player and a good friend of mine, so keeping him alive would always be optimal). However when it's clear marv isn't playing and is replaced by a smurf, I no longer have any personal attachments to the slot (ie, I really want to play with marv).
So cold calculation leads me to believe it is not unlikely, based on something completely out of his control, that Chezitwo is mafia. However, as I already said, I do not really want to lynch him for that without suspecting him specifically (and not the slot), because it's an asshole thing to do.
I didn't even know we had a train on sicklucker. Is there an actual case I can read somewhere?
I read a few more posts of skynx, I think I'll be unvoting him, he has a few decent posts.
On June 20 2017 22:40 Rels wrote: @BTDT we're not lynching Palmar 'cause he did nothing scummy and some other people did. Filter length is something to consider but is not an absolute measure.
Yeah, basically this. But we should not allow Palmar to keep this up either regardless of his alignment.
Surely the stern facial expression will make me snap out of it.
Apparently it did :D
On June 20 2017 22:46 Palmar wrote:
On June 20 2017 07:40 Chezitwo wrote:
On June 20 2017 06:43 Palmar wrote: Rels is evil!
I have no idea, I haven't read much lately.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
So, are you claiming it is normal for marv to completely vanish from TL due to rolling mafia? Because if you are not you don't have a leg to stand on.
Yes, that is exactly what I am claiming.
How am I supposed to believe that a guy like this:
On June 16 2017 07:40 Palmar wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:37 Koshi wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:36 Fecalfeast wrote: Shenannie onto marv?
😇I'm only half joking
nha. 0 posts is not his mafia style. He has some dignity and respect for the game.
He had, tbh.
He's the guy who just quit a game because he rolled mafia, as much as I like him (I love the guy, he's by far guy I've interacted most with outside of mafia that I've met here) he has been rather sketchy in his appearances lately. If anything his silence does point to him being mafia (or simply having forgotten about the game).
does not realize that marvs universal TL absence is obviously not connected to a mafia game he signed up for ages ago? Walk me through this. Do you actually believe marv would stop himself from posting on this forum because of this game? Not to mention that he stopped posting way before it started and he could know his alignment.
marv barely posts outside tl mafia at all, like his entire tl existence is basically tl mafia.
On June 20 2017 23:45 disformation wrote: yeah i think i'll make a decent case on sl later. basically: creates the annul wagon via "read his filter didnt like it" pushes really hard (uncharacteristic for sl) has a false/bad xata town lean/read says xata might be town after all after flip
aaaand:
On June 16 2017 07:54 Holyflare wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:51 Holyflare wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:49 sicklucker wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:47 Holyflare wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:45 Eversince wrote: This is going to make me look like garbage.
I haven't read anything since pg 35ish. Give me the the rough of what's happen between now and then for Xata, Annul, and SL.
I don't have time to fact check so my vote is entirely blind at this point.
sl came to the thread and town read xatalos because xatalos has different reads to most of the game (when in fact xatalos' reads are blending with the rest of the game
sl says i'm mafia for calling all the town leaders mafia and it's my mafia meta when 100% of other games he states my mafia meta is to push lurkers
sl is trying to force the wagon onto someone who is blatantly self-preserving and revealing his plan for all to see, who stubbornly refuses to change his reads despite everyone yelling at him mafia
sl is mafia
I said that because xata had a mafia read on ryan and everyone else town read him. get over it you lost save your buddy
xata doesn't have a mafia read on rayn, he said he can still be scum but doesn't actually say he scum reads him at all
Ruxxar and Fecalfeast are voting together once more. Both rather townread people. Why was everyone so super sure on Fecalfeast again? I think there were valid points but don't remember.
VayneAuthority ended up on Skynx D1 and is now up on the Grack wagon after popping in for a while. So D1 a non-committal vote and D3 joining the wagon in a strong fashion (I think joining a wagon as #5/#6 has more weight than #1/#2) which gives me worries. What are VA's reasons?
Like, people from the annul wagon aren't exactly cleared. We're focusing on Rels, Grack, ES, but left out Ruxxar for a lot of time (for which exact reasons?)
Hmm
Ruxxar, from what little I've read of him, kinda sounds like town, but it's not a strong read.
On June 22 2017 08:40 Palmar wrote: I forgot Vivax is bad. That's on me
Listing all Palmar's posts.
On June 26 2017 17:04 Blazinghand wrote: living players:
Palmar Rels Disfo VA BTDT Rayn Blaze FF Skynx RuXxar ES
Living claimers (do not lynch): VA who claims as the Vigilante who shot SL during N3 ES who claims as the Tracker who tracked SL to TW N1, Chezi N2, and Rels to nobody N3, and was RBed N4
Likely town: Disfo RuXXar Fecal ... much lower, Skynx
Potential Scums (in the order I'd lynch them): Palmar BTDT Rels Rayn
--
So some reasoning here. On the d1 Annul vs Xat wagon, the following 6 people were on Xat: Xatalos (6): DF, Koshi, Skynx, Disfo, annul, HF.
Everyone who has flipped has been green. Every one of these votes was potentially like "the vote that might make the difference and get Xat lynched D1" and I see no reason to believe that Disfo is scum. Skynx has been very low-activity recently, but I feel like it would have been pretty high risk to be on the Xat wagon here. even if scum had "slack" in the lynch. So I'm basically on board with the idea that the whole wagon was green.
The people who were on the Annul wagon: annul (7):sicklucker, ruXxar, Fecalfeast, Xatalos, Rels, Grackaroni, Eversince Non-voters and third-party-voters (any of whom could have potentially swung this vote): Neither (8): Palmar, Vivax, TW, VA, Damdred, Rayn, Blaze, Chez
So of our lynched scum, one was on annul, and one was third-party. This ALREADY tells us scum had some "slack" in the Annul lynch. TW could have come back and moved his vote from Marv to annul. So scum was already not going "all out" on annul. If they weren't voting Xat, the place for them to be are the "neither" voters. People who didn't vote, or people who voted for an unrelated candidate (as TW did). If we're talking a 4-scum game, I'd guess 2 of them were on annul to push him over, and hte other two either were afk or hid their votes in the assortment of useless wagons.
I think there's a solid chance that someone else on the annul wagon is scum. I think Ruxxar has generally been really engaged all game; he's likely town. ES has claimed, and we don't yet have any reason to doubt it. Fecalfeast is part of the cohort (along with disfo, ruxxar, and chezi) that I spoke with after the dawn of Day 4. Remember, during a period of time, SL had flipped and we were trying to reason things out. Scum, we can now reasonably infer, had shot Chez and noticed it failed, and on top of that, that SL who they did not shoot has flipped. Scum doesn't know what happened, what prots if any went on, who shot whom, etc. This was exciting and interesting news for town, and confusing news for scum, what happened with the D1 flip. After the VA claim, scum had a lot more information to work on and probably came out of the woodwork, and after the ES claim, they were safe to operate and make statements with surety about what checks they were opearing against, and to bus/not bus etc. I think scum had every motivation in the world to NOT be posting right after that flip. It would be very risky. So the people who dove into convo with me, FF, Disfo, and Ruxxar, are highly unlikely to be scum in my view.
So leaving out people on the xat wagon, people who claimed, and people who reacted in a townie way to the start-of-D4 flip (and in a way that would be VERY costly potentially as scum), this leaves Palm, Rels, BTDT, and Rayn. Among them, are at least 2 scum.
I think we can all agree that Palm's play has left something to be desired. Rels, well, you may not agree with me on him, but he still isn't exonnerated by these thoughts. BTDT has gotten suspicion and played weird all game. I've liked rayn, but I always like rayn, and he (like palmar) was a "neither" vote during D1.
With 11 alive, we can consider the 2-mafia and the 3-mafia situation.
2-mafia situation: Today, 9-2. If we ML, tomorrow is 7-2 If we ML again, next day is 5-2 If we ML again, day after is 3-2 LYLO
3-mafia situation: today, 8-3 If we ML, tomorrow is 6-3 If we ML again, the next day is 4-3 LYLO
The latter situation seems more likely given that we seem to have 5 blues. However, if we are hunting for 3 mafia in a pool of 4, we can afford a mislynch. If we take down Palm, BTDT, Rels, Rayn, we win. Heck, this is true in a 9-2 situation also. In both situations we have plenty of ML's worth of cushion. Anyways, if people disagree with me please let me know and it's of course better to discuss things than to autolynch and lose momentum. But I think we baaasically have this wrapped up. And with a 5th blue in the shadows, we have even more degrees of freedom here.
Setup analysis to get a POE list. Also see my post just above.
On June 28 2017 01:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: BH does nothing in his games except for where there is a claim situation. I never get why people shoot him as mafia.
last game he played is a direct counter example of that assesment.
so basically: I want to kill BH or Palmar. Palmar seems the easiest lynch to get but I would prefer BH.
The scumteam is very likely BH / Palmar / ? ? is likely to be Skynx or ruxxar. I think I see town!rayn in the way he's pushing me. He basically is internally mad that I have better reads than him + called him unsmart so he doesn't want me to be town.
On June 20 2017 21:00 Rels wrote: Actually I just did.
On June 15 2017 00:18 Tumblewood wrote:
On June 15 2017 00:14 Koshi wrote:
On June 15 2017 00:12 Tumblewood wrote: so far i'm thinking ruxxar and disfo have basically dumbtelled by taking sl's claim at fake value. unless i am actually operating on way less irony than them
Don't think they are dumbtelled town for believing a claim. They are more likely town if SL is mafia.
or what do you mean?
believing the claim requires not realizing that sl just made that up. and if rux or disfo are mafia then they should figure that out because it doesn't reconcile at all with the information that they have. i think there's a corner case of this where they're mafia with eversince, but i figure they are still probably town. and if sl is mafia... idk, at least disfo is kinda scrubby and might take it as a legit fakeclaim
this is kinda townie
Nothing else stands out of to me as town or scum. The activity is bad ofc though. I want him to play more.
Also i just found this:
disformation (or someone with better english than me) could you translate this to me? I am asking this because the very very first single reasoning Rels ever gave for Ruxxar scumread is that "ruxxar believes sl N0 claim", and this townread on Tumblewood seems like having the opposite reasoning.
mh. not necessarily. though rels didnt really explain why he thinks that is town. could be: a) I think tw's thought process is more likely to be town. b) he is agreeing with tw
two different things.
I am not sure why (1) would be the case unless (2) since Tumblewood isn't really saying anything different than what ruxxar did (except that ruxxar at least came to some sort of conclusion which Tumblewood failed to do).
lol rayn. I liked a dude's thought process even though it lead to the opposite conclusion than mine. And you're trying to push on that just lol p: one more false thing to add to the list. I guess it isn't really false though. But pretty bad
On June 28 2017 01:29 Rels wrote: lol rayn. I liked a dude's thought process even though it lead to the opposite conclusion than mine. And you're trying to push on that just lol p: one more false thing to add to the list. I guess it isn't really false though. But pretty bad
What was good in the thought process? He didn't really say anything.
I could follow it easily. It showed that Tumble thought about the game as a whole, and not just thinking about who he could push. Well, I mean he faked it well. But yeah
On June 28 2017 01:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think BH will flip scum. He's just having fun. Also your points on him are wrong. I think it's pretty bs to say "BH does nothing" when he has jsut given a list of 4 people he thinks we find the last mafia in -> trying to lynch into that list. Then you quote one part of his reasoning and say it is flimsy when in reality it's more of a poe list (as you even point out yourself in the SAME post)....
my point IS that when he finally tries today, his reasonnings are POE. Not taking any risk, not directly pushing someone. I don't think he's even voting
On June 28 2017 01:11 Rels wrote: Let's not forget the numerous days of no-content posts since the beginning of the game. Never taking risk, but always there. Talking about irrelevant stuff and having almost no reads. Take a look at his filter and try to find a post that push the game forward. They are almost non existent. In fact here are some posts that look involved 'cause they're big, but don't push the game: + Show Spoiler +
On June 21 2017 18:34 disformation wrote: looking back at fefe: last post:
On June 21 2017 08:47 Fecalfeast wrote: So I went into VA's filter almost looking for reasons to scumread him and now that I made half a case about his read progression on grack and skynx...
I kinda think he's just low effort town.. The way he comes across seems so casual and while like 80% of his posts are setup talk or useless he seems to be looking at the game from a low information point of view and hasn't pushed any sort of agenda (scum or town) that I can see.
town. fairly sure.
Why is that townish? "I made a half-assed attempt to do something and my result is a not-really-committed townread"
How is that townish?
*sigh* why would scum do that? scum would just finish up the half finished case to look like having scumreads and done stuff. realizing half way through a case that you think the guy might actually be town is far more likely to come from town. aaaand the read isnt even as shitty as you make it out to be. "i cant see any agenda in va's filter" is a pretty strong statement.
Yeah I actually think this is a valid point. Like, here's how you should look at it.
On the really basic level, the first level, Scum aren't coming from the same mindset of hunting scum that Town come from. Which means it's hard for Scum to have good reads and feel confident pushing them. This means that Town might formulate a read and make a case, but Scum would worry about appearing scummy or something, and therefore try to leave open a line of retreat. See, if you're town, and you think someone is scum, even if it's unpopular to think that, you won't give it up. You have a belief; you have evidence; you're gonna go for it. Scum, though, they're not trying to lynch this guy they think is scum. Instead, theyr'e trying to not get lynched. so maybe theyw ant to build their cases and reads with a line of retreat so they can change their minds if it's unpopular.
So on a naive level you would expect Town to be decisive and Scum to be waffly.
But if you go down into the second level, it turns out taht sometimes as Town you're confused. And to a certain extent, town doesn't actually CARE about looking town. I mean, obvs you don't wanna get lynched but you're also highly concerned with finding scum. Whereas scum, their ONLY concern is about looking town. And if "looking town" means decisively posting aggressive cases, Scum will try to ape this as best they can. Town will only do this when it makes sense for them.
So, we might see someone posting waffle-like uncertain reads. This could mean "ah hah, this is scum planning to pull out of these reads if they aren't popular" and that's possible. But because this really stands out, and is obviously scummy, it's like... the kind of thing that scum tries (but not always succeeds) to avoid doing. And town to a certain extent doesn't actually give a shit. Town wants to lynch properly.
so "I did half-assed work and got a half-assed townread" is, you know, it's not something i'm gonna go giving people tons of townreads on that, but there's not a HUGE motivation for scum to do that because 1) a half-assed townread won't get anyone lynched and 2) it kinda stands out as "bad" in a sense. And I'm not saying "too bad to be scum" but you can see how a town has in some ways more chances of saying this than a scum, capisce
On June 22 2017 09:07 Rels wrote: lol. Yes it's simple. You're scumreading me because you don't believe I couldn't know that info as town. Which is what I find really dumb. Cause dumbtells happen literally all the time. Discussion closed.
Ok, so you DO understand me, you're just disagreeing loudly cause you know I caught you
Look at it this way Rels
There's like, one setup post, with like 7 lines in it. It's right there.
Now what do you think is more likely here, from an outside view? 1. A townie somehow doesn't know what's going on in the OP, and is actively planning around this lack of knowledge (hoping to have a way to stop 2 kp). Despite planning around this lack of knowledge he never looks at the OP, not when he signed up, not when the game started, not when 2 deaths came through N1, and so on. And so, somehow he goes through this existence of hoping/planning around this "knowledge" that he never even spent a second to check on. 2. A Mafia, is keenly aware of how Mafia KP works, but thinks, "ah hah, I could FAKE not knowing how mafia works, thereby PROVING that I am town"
Which is more likely? It's obviously #2. Mafia are willing to lie about everything: emotions, real life issues, being busy, being sick, reading the OP, etc. Townies, will always be curious and want to know how to play the game. And some may be oblivious, but most will not. Most of the time you see something of this caliber executed by someone at this time in the game, it is a mafia move to generate towniness
that read on me that makes no sense.
On June 23 2017 08:20 Blazinghand wrote: OK SO THEORY. AS we know, SickLucker crumbed his N1 and N2 checks here, which was SAME on FEFE and Chezitwo. However, pay attention to how he wrote it:
On June 22 2017 18:05 disformation wrote: so lets start again:
town: fefe chezitwo
if ppl scumread any of those two i would like to see reasons/cases
I have a red check on both of them
I don't know about you folks but I pretty much immediately ignored this. I assumed it was a troll or a joke, not a serious claim in any way. In fact, he doesn't claim they're both the same alignment, he claims they're both Red checks.
Now imagine FeFe and Chez are townies. If FeFe and Chez are both Green, and Mafia sees SL, who to them is just some townie, claim he has redchecks on them, why would they shoot him? Who cares, he's some weirdo doing weird things.
BUT THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENEd
MAFIA SHOT HIM.
Which means, when they saw SL say "i have redchecks on FeFe and Chez" they probably started freaking out because fefe and chez are actually mafia. Their Rb, Xat, is dead; so they can't just wait one more day for town to maybe lynch SL, cause then SL will die and leave us THREE checks (remember, they think he's a cop at this point). So they HAVE to shoot him right away even though he's like the top lynch target.
Mafia has no reason to rolecheck SL, he was considered suspicious and likely to get lynched. But, if FeFe and Chez ARE IN FACT MAFIA, then Mafia had a REALLY good reason to pay attention to this off-handed statement and freak out and shoot SL!
I think that SL crumbed so we'd know he got "same" on FeFe and Chez.
But I ALSO think that the way he was shot could only really happen if FeFe and Chez are Mafia and Mafia freaked the fuck out
this makes as much or more sense than the rolecop theory
now one of FeFe or Chez could still be town here, as an un-self-aware miller; and mafia think "ok, chez/fefe is one of us, but fefe/chez is a miller" and this still confirms, in their minds, that SL is a REGULAR COP with two red checks
On June 23 2017 08:20 Blazinghand wrote: OK SO THEORY. AS we know, SickLucker crumbed his N1 and N2 checks here, which was SAME on FEFE and Chezitwo. However, pay attention to how he wrote it:
On June 22 2017 19:19 sicklucker wrote:
On June 22 2017 18:05 disformation wrote: so lets start again:
town: fefe chezitwo
if ppl scumread any of those two i would like to see reasons/cases
I have a red check on both of them
I don't know about you folks but I pretty much immediately ignored this. I assumed it was a troll or a joke, not a serious claim in any way. In fact, he doesn't claim they're both the same alignment, he claims they're both Red checks.
Now imagine FeFe and Chez are townies. If FeFe and Chez are both Green, and Mafia sees SL, who to them is just some townie, claim he has redchecks on them, why would they shoot him? Who cares, he's some weirdo doing weird things.
BUT THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENEd
MAFIA SHOT HIM.
Which means, when they saw SL say "i have redchecks on FeFe and Chez" they probably started freaking out because fefe and chez are actually mafia. Their Rb, Xat, is dead; so they can't just wait one more day for town to maybe lynch SL, cause then SL will die and leave us THREE checks (remember, they think he's a cop at this point). So they HAVE to shoot him right away even though he's like the top lynch target.
Mafia has no reason to rolecheck SL, he was considered suspicious and likely to get lynched. But, if FeFe and Chez ARE IN FACT MAFIA, then Mafia had a REALLY good reason to pay attention to this off-handed statement and freak out and shoot SL!
I think that SL crumbed so we'd know he got "same" on FeFe and Chez.
But I ALSO think that the way he was shot could only really happen if FeFe and Chez are Mafia and Mafia freaked the fuck out
this makes as much or more sense than the rolecop theory
now one of FeFe or Chez could still be town here, as an un-self-aware miller; and mafia think "ok, chez/fefe is one of us, but fefe/chez is a miller" and this still confirms, in their minds, that SL is a REGULAR COP with two red checks
they couldn't afford to let him live.
Not only is this just factually wrong and mafia probably wouldn't be stupid enough to think that SL wouldn't claim with 2 redckecks it is also definitely NOT more likely than the rolecop theory.
hmm, do you really think so though, like remembe,r this means MAfia rolecopped SL during N1 or N2. And then, during Day 3, when it was a faceoff between SL, the guy they "know" is Parity cop, and Grack, the guy they think is just some guy, why does the Grack wagon get so much more support than the SL wagon? there were like TWO dudes on SL at the end, but at some point it was very close. I feel mafia would have pushed to get SL lynched right away.
on top of that, this innocuous "I have two redchecks" troll remark seems normal to town but to mafia has to be a HUGE red flag when those two redchecks are on two mafia right (remember, mafia didn't know he was parity cop, thought he was regular cop, in this hypothetical)
Doesn't this counter the point you're trying to make? If they knew he was parity cop, wouldn't they try to vote him out?
OMG READING COMPREHENSION
I AM POINTING OUT THAT
IN A WORLD IN WHICH MAFIA HAD A ROLE CHECK
THEY WOULD PUSH SICKLUCKER
SINCE THEY DIDN'T
THEY DIDN'T HAVE A ROLE CHECK
SO WHY DID THEY SHOOT HIM
ITS NOT CAUSE HE WAS TOWN LEADER
ITS CAUSE THEY GOT HIS ROLE SOME OTHER WAY
LIKE HIS OVERNIGHT CLAIM
THAT ONLY STUCK OUT IF YOU ARE MAFIA
I AM POINTING OUT THAT THE COUNTERFACTUAL OF ROLE CHECK DOESN'T MAKE SENSE
Same.
On June 23 2017 09:00 Blazinghand wrote: Here's like all of Palmar's post in the last week:
On June 16 2017 16:39 Palmar wrote: I clicked darthfoley's filter. I don't like it much, and I would expect him to be a relatively easy townread if he was town. I think he is a good candidate for being mafia.
On June 16 2017 20:26 Palmar wrote: I'm just playing single player mafia mostly. Occasionally clicking filters, ignoring the thread, throwing out some opinions.
Life is good.
I'll try to maybe make my statement posts a bit more detailed when I cba.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
On June 20 2017 22:40 Rels wrote: @BTDT we're not lynching Palmar 'cause he did nothing scummy and some other people did. Filter length is something to consider but is not an absolute measure.
Yeah, basically this. But we should not allow Palmar to keep this up either regardless of his alignment.
Surely the stern facial expression will make me snap out of it.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
So, are you claiming it is normal for marv to completely vanish from TL due to rolling mafia? Because if you are not you don't have a leg to stand on.
On June 20 2017 22:57 Palmar wrote: I voted for skynx. He sounds distinctly less towny than he did the last game i played with him. I'm not complaining that the content is different, he just sounds less sassy.
It's a weak vote atm, I'll probably read some more later.
On June 20 2017 22:51 beentheredonethat wrote: the "marv disappears when he's scum" shit is actually valid, I can confirm that from Generic I (I think. Might've been one of the other games I hosted). The scum qt in this game is full of "omg I rolled scum" shit.
Then again, I haven't seen him post here around tl so I don't know how valid it is
also this is one of the few points Palmar can make because he's been absent basically. So I'd treat this with care. chezitwo appeared townie to me
I have not read anything of Chezitwo's posts, it's very much just based on that. Which is why I don't particularly want to lynch him, it basically wouldn't be fair to the guy.
I'm kinda hoping the situation resolves itself through a vigi shot or something.
On June 20 2017 22:40 Rels wrote: @BTDT we're not lynching Palmar 'cause he did nothing scummy and some other people did. Filter length is something to consider but is not an absolute measure.
He did nothing townie, either. And a super bad reason to not lynch an obvious lurker. He managed to vote each cycle. He even comes in every now and then, throw accusations at people, doesn't follow up AND he freely admits to neither read nor care about this game.
I don't know why we don't lynch (or shoot) such a player.
To be fair, I freely admit to never reading any game I play.
But yes, been extra lazy this game. Just had stuff to do.
On June 16 2017 00:40 Palmar wrote: So I clicked two more filters.
beentheredonethat is strange. There's some weird stuff in his filter like gettin into an argument if he's carefree. But there's also some townie sounding, albeit not very useful stuff. He goes in the "could be either category"
AMG hasn't posted at all, lucky me that was an easy filter to read.
I still think voting sicklucker is a good idea and I'm gonna park my vote there. Btdt should probably sheep me as he thinks sicklucker's contributions are atrocious.
Hey, Palmar, we have a sicklucker train going. You care?
On June 16 2017 16:39 Palmar wrote: I clicked darthfoley's filter. I don't like it much, and I would expect him to be a relatively easy townread if he was town. I think he is a good candidate for being mafia.
Hey, Palmar, this guy flipped town.
On June 20 2017 06:43 Palmar wrote: Rels is evil!
I have no idea, I haven't read much lately.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
On June 16 2017 00:41 Palmar wrote: Btw, if we're killing inactive/modkill-territory people, we kill AMG, not marv.
Hey, Palmar, lynch into the AMG slot instead of the slot where you're suspecting scum!marv?
Ok the first two things are basically me bitching but the last one is valid and scummy
I actually think the first things are better, especially being wrong (mildly... I never voted him) on darthfoley.
The last part is completely irrelevant. I posted the first post on day 1 for very good reasons (marv is both a great player and a good friend of mine, so keeping him alive would always be optimal). However when it's clear marv isn't playing and is replaced by a smurf, I no longer have any personal attachments to the slot (ie, I really want to play with marv).
So cold calculation leads me to believe it is not unlikely, based on something completely out of his control, that Chezitwo is mafia. However, as I already said, I do not really want to lynch him for that without suspecting him specifically (and not the slot), because it's an asshole thing to do.
I didn't even know we had a train on sicklucker. Is there an actual case I can read somewhere?
I read a few more posts of skynx, I think I'll be unvoting him, he has a few decent posts.
On June 20 2017 22:40 Rels wrote: @BTDT we're not lynching Palmar 'cause he did nothing scummy and some other people did. Filter length is something to consider but is not an absolute measure.
Yeah, basically this. But we should not allow Palmar to keep this up either regardless of his alignment.
Surely the stern facial expression will make me snap out of it.
Apparently it did :D
On June 20 2017 22:46 Palmar wrote:
On June 20 2017 07:40 Chezitwo wrote:
On June 20 2017 06:43 Palmar wrote: Rels is evil!
I have no idea, I haven't read much lately.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
So, are you claiming it is normal for marv to completely vanish from TL due to rolling mafia? Because if you are not you don't have a leg to stand on.
Yes, that is exactly what I am claiming.
How am I supposed to believe that a guy like this:
On June 16 2017 07:40 Palmar wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:37 Koshi wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:36 Fecalfeast wrote: Shenannie onto marv?
😇I'm only half joking
nha. 0 posts is not his mafia style. He has some dignity and respect for the game.
He had, tbh.
He's the guy who just quit a game because he rolled mafia, as much as I like him (I love the guy, he's by far guy I've interacted most with outside of mafia that I've met here) he has been rather sketchy in his appearances lately. If anything his silence does point to him being mafia (or simply having forgotten about the game).
does not realize that marvs universal TL absence is obviously not connected to a mafia game he signed up for ages ago? Walk me through this. Do you actually believe marv would stop himself from posting on this forum because of this game? Not to mention that he stopped posting way before it started and he could know his alignment.
marv barely posts outside tl mafia at all, like his entire tl existence is basically tl mafia.
On June 20 2017 23:45 disformation wrote: yeah i think i'll make a decent case on sl later. basically: creates the annul wagon via "read his filter didnt like it" pushes really hard (uncharacteristic for sl) has a false/bad xata town lean/read says xata might be town after all after flip
aaaand:
On June 16 2017 07:54 Holyflare wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:51 Holyflare wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:49 sicklucker wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:47 Holyflare wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:45 Eversince wrote: This is going to make me look like garbage.
I haven't read anything since pg 35ish. Give me the the rough of what's happen between now and then for Xata, Annul, and SL.
I don't have time to fact check so my vote is entirely blind at this point.
sl came to the thread and town read xatalos because xatalos has different reads to most of the game (when in fact xatalos' reads are blending with the rest of the game
sl says i'm mafia for calling all the town leaders mafia and it's my mafia meta when 100% of other games he states my mafia meta is to push lurkers
sl is trying to force the wagon onto someone who is blatantly self-preserving and revealing his plan for all to see, who stubbornly refuses to change his reads despite everyone yelling at him mafia
sl is mafia
I said that because xata had a mafia read on ryan and everyone else town read him. get over it you lost save your buddy
xata doesn't have a mafia read on rayn, he said he can still be scum but doesn't actually say he scum reads him at all
Ruxxar and Fecalfeast are voting together once more. Both rather townread people. Why was everyone so super sure on Fecalfeast again? I think there were valid points but don't remember.
VayneAuthority ended up on Skynx D1 and is now up on the Grack wagon after popping in for a while. So D1 a non-committal vote and D3 joining the wagon in a strong fashion (I think joining a wagon as #5/#6 has more weight than #1/#2) which gives me worries. What are VA's reasons?
Like, people from the annul wagon aren't exactly cleared. We're focusing on Rels, Grack, ES, but left out Ruxxar for a lot of time (for which exact reasons?)
Hmm
Ruxxar, from what little I've read of him, kinda sounds like town, but it's not a strong read.
On June 22 2017 08:40 Palmar wrote: I forgot Vivax is bad. That's on me
Listing all Palmar's posts.
On June 26 2017 17:04 Blazinghand wrote: living players:
Palmar Rels Disfo VA BTDT Rayn Blaze FF Skynx RuXxar ES
Living claimers (do not lynch): VA who claims as the Vigilante who shot SL during N3 ES who claims as the Tracker who tracked SL to TW N1, Chezi N2, and Rels to nobody N3, and was RBed N4
Likely town: Disfo RuXXar Fecal ... much lower, Skynx
Potential Scums (in the order I'd lynch them): Palmar BTDT Rels Rayn
--
So some reasoning here. On the d1 Annul vs Xat wagon, the following 6 people were on Xat: Xatalos (6): DF, Koshi, Skynx, Disfo, annul, HF.
Everyone who has flipped has been green. Every one of these votes was potentially like "the vote that might make the difference and get Xat lynched D1" and I see no reason to believe that Disfo is scum. Skynx has been very low-activity recently, but I feel like it would have been pretty high risk to be on the Xat wagon here. even if scum had "slack" in the lynch. So I'm basically on board with the idea that the whole wagon was green.
The people who were on the Annul wagon: annul (7):sicklucker, ruXxar, Fecalfeast, Xatalos, Rels, Grackaroni, Eversince Non-voters and third-party-voters (any of whom could have potentially swung this vote): Neither (8): Palmar, Vivax, TW, VA, Damdred, Rayn, Blaze, Chez
So of our lynched scum, one was on annul, and one was third-party. This ALREADY tells us scum had some "slack" in the Annul lynch. TW could have come back and moved his vote from Marv to annul. So scum was already not going "all out" on annul. If they weren't voting Xat, the place for them to be are the "neither" voters. People who didn't vote, or people who voted for an unrelated candidate (as TW did). If we're talking a 4-scum game, I'd guess 2 of them were on annul to push him over, and hte other two either were afk or hid their votes in the assortment of useless wagons.
I think there's a solid chance that someone else on the annul wagon is scum. I think Ruxxar has generally been really engaged all game; he's likely town. ES has claimed, and we don't yet have any reason to doubt it. Fecalfeast is part of the cohort (along with disfo, ruxxar, and chezi) that I spoke with after the dawn of Day 4. Remember, during a period of time, SL had flipped and we were trying to reason things out. Scum, we can now reasonably infer, had shot Chez and noticed it failed, and on top of that, that SL who they did not shoot has flipped. Scum doesn't know what happened, what prots if any went on, who shot whom, etc. This was exciting and interesting news for town, and confusing news for scum, what happened with the D1 flip. After the VA claim, scum had a lot more information to work on and probably came out of the woodwork, and after the ES claim, they were safe to operate and make statements with surety about what checks they were opearing against, and to bus/not bus etc. I think scum had every motivation in the world to NOT be posting right after that flip. It would be very risky. So the people who dove into convo with me, FF, Disfo, and Ruxxar, are highly unlikely to be scum in my view.
So leaving out people on the xat wagon, people who claimed, and people who reacted in a townie way to the start-of-D4 flip (and in a way that would be VERY costly potentially as scum), this leaves Palm, Rels, BTDT, and Rayn. Among them, are at least 2 scum.
I think we can all agree that Palm's play has left something to be desired. Rels, well, you may not agree with me on him, but he still isn't exonnerated by these thoughts. BTDT has gotten suspicion and played weird all game. I've liked rayn, but I always like rayn, and he (like palmar) was a "neither" vote during D1.
With 11 alive, we can consider the 2-mafia and the 3-mafia situation.
2-mafia situation: Today, 9-2. If we ML, tomorrow is 7-2 If we ML again, next day is 5-2 If we ML again, day after is 3-2 LYLO
3-mafia situation: today, 8-3 If we ML, tomorrow is 6-3 If we ML again, the next day is 4-3 LYLO
The latter situation seems more likely given that we seem to have 5 blues. However, if we are hunting for 3 mafia in a pool of 4, we can afford a mislynch. If we take down Palm, BTDT, Rels, Rayn, we win. Heck, this is true in a 9-2 situation also. In both situations we have plenty of ML's worth of cushion. Anyways, if people disagree with me please let me know and it's of course better to discuss things than to autolynch and lose momentum. But I think we baaasically have this wrapped up. And with a 5th blue in the shadows, we have even more degrees of freedom here.
Setup analysis to get a POE list. Also see my post just above.
I always owned it. Also my PoE List, you say that like it's bad or something, but I actually think it's right on the money. we got this wrapped up.
Anyways I basically don't buy this comeback from Palmar so I'm voting him. He remains my top dude.
##vote Palmar
why ? He's pushing BTDT, who "played weird all game" apparently ? Palmar comes back and call one of your POE scum. What should he have done to be town in your book ?
On June 28 2017 01:41 Blazinghand wrote: u fokin wot m8 i'll hook you in the gabbr
On June 28 2017 01:11 Rels wrote: Let's not forget the numerous days of no-content posts since the beginning of the game. Never taking risk, but always there. Talking about irrelevant stuff and having almost no reads. Take a look at his filter and try to find a post that push the game forward. They are almost non existent. In fact here are some posts that look involved 'cause they're big, but don't push the game: + Show Spoiler +
On June 21 2017 18:34 disformation wrote: looking back at fefe: last post:
On June 21 2017 08:47 Fecalfeast wrote: So I went into VA's filter almost looking for reasons to scumread him and now that I made half a case about his read progression on grack and skynx...
I kinda think he's just low effort town.. The way he comes across seems so casual and while like 80% of his posts are setup talk or useless he seems to be looking at the game from a low information point of view and hasn't pushed any sort of agenda (scum or town) that I can see.
town. fairly sure.
Why is that townish? "I made a half-assed attempt to do something and my result is a not-really-committed townread"
How is that townish?
*sigh* why would scum do that? scum would just finish up the half finished case to look like having scumreads and done stuff. realizing half way through a case that you think the guy might actually be town is far more likely to come from town. aaaand the read isnt even as shitty as you make it out to be. "i cant see any agenda in va's filter" is a pretty strong statement.
Yeah I actually think this is a valid point. Like, here's how you should look at it.
On the really basic level, the first level, Scum aren't coming from the same mindset of hunting scum that Town come from. Which means it's hard for Scum to have good reads and feel confident pushing them. This means that Town might formulate a read and make a case, but Scum would worry about appearing scummy or something, and therefore try to leave open a line of retreat. See, if you're town, and you think someone is scum, even if it's unpopular to think that, you won't give it up. You have a belief; you have evidence; you're gonna go for it. Scum, though, they're not trying to lynch this guy they think is scum. Instead, theyr'e trying to not get lynched. so maybe theyw ant to build their cases and reads with a line of retreat so they can change their minds if it's unpopular.
So on a naive level you would expect Town to be decisive and Scum to be waffly.
But if you go down into the second level, it turns out taht sometimes as Town you're confused. And to a certain extent, town doesn't actually CARE about looking town. I mean, obvs you don't wanna get lynched but you're also highly concerned with finding scum. Whereas scum, their ONLY concern is about looking town. And if "looking town" means decisively posting aggressive cases, Scum will try to ape this as best they can. Town will only do this when it makes sense for them.
So, we might see someone posting waffle-like uncertain reads. This could mean "ah hah, this is scum planning to pull out of these reads if they aren't popular" and that's possible. But because this really stands out, and is obviously scummy, it's like... the kind of thing that scum tries (but not always succeeds) to avoid doing. And town to a certain extent doesn't actually give a shit. Town wants to lynch properly.
so "I did half-assed work and got a half-assed townread" is, you know, it's not something i'm gonna go giving people tons of townreads on that, but there's not a HUGE motivation for scum to do that because 1) a half-assed townread won't get anyone lynched and 2) it kinda stands out as "bad" in a sense. And I'm not saying "too bad to be scum" but you can see how a town has in some ways more chances of saying this than a scum, capisce
On June 22 2017 09:07 Rels wrote: lol. Yes it's simple. You're scumreading me because you don't believe I couldn't know that info as town. Which is what I find really dumb. Cause dumbtells happen literally all the time. Discussion closed.
Ok, so you DO understand me, you're just disagreeing loudly cause you know I caught you
Look at it this way Rels
There's like, one setup post, with like 7 lines in it. It's right there.
Now what do you think is more likely here, from an outside view? 1. A townie somehow doesn't know what's going on in the OP, and is actively planning around this lack of knowledge (hoping to have a way to stop 2 kp). Despite planning around this lack of knowledge he never looks at the OP, not when he signed up, not when the game started, not when 2 deaths came through N1, and so on. And so, somehow he goes through this existence of hoping/planning around this "knowledge" that he never even spent a second to check on. 2. A Mafia, is keenly aware of how Mafia KP works, but thinks, "ah hah, I could FAKE not knowing how mafia works, thereby PROVING that I am town"
Which is more likely? It's obviously #2. Mafia are willing to lie about everything: emotions, real life issues, being busy, being sick, reading the OP, etc. Townies, will always be curious and want to know how to play the game. And some may be oblivious, but most will not. Most of the time you see something of this caliber executed by someone at this time in the game, it is a mafia move to generate towniness
that read on me that makes no sense.
On June 23 2017 08:20 Blazinghand wrote: OK SO THEORY. AS we know, SickLucker crumbed his N1 and N2 checks here, which was SAME on FEFE and Chezitwo. However, pay attention to how he wrote it:
On June 22 2017 18:05 disformation wrote: so lets start again:
town: fefe chezitwo
if ppl scumread any of those two i would like to see reasons/cases
I have a red check on both of them
I don't know about you folks but I pretty much immediately ignored this. I assumed it was a troll or a joke, not a serious claim in any way. In fact, he doesn't claim they're both the same alignment, he claims they're both Red checks.
Now imagine FeFe and Chez are townies. If FeFe and Chez are both Green, and Mafia sees SL, who to them is just some townie, claim he has redchecks on them, why would they shoot him? Who cares, he's some weirdo doing weird things.
BUT THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENEd
MAFIA SHOT HIM.
Which means, when they saw SL say "i have redchecks on FeFe and Chez" they probably started freaking out because fefe and chez are actually mafia. Their Rb, Xat, is dead; so they can't just wait one more day for town to maybe lynch SL, cause then SL will die and leave us THREE checks (remember, they think he's a cop at this point). So they HAVE to shoot him right away even though he's like the top lynch target.
Mafia has no reason to rolecheck SL, he was considered suspicious and likely to get lynched. But, if FeFe and Chez ARE IN FACT MAFIA, then Mafia had a REALLY good reason to pay attention to this off-handed statement and freak out and shoot SL!
I think that SL crumbed so we'd know he got "same" on FeFe and Chez.
But I ALSO think that the way he was shot could only really happen if FeFe and Chez are Mafia and Mafia freaked the fuck out
this makes as much or more sense than the rolecop theory
now one of FeFe or Chez could still be town here, as an un-self-aware miller; and mafia think "ok, chez/fefe is one of us, but fefe/chez is a miller" and this still confirms, in their minds, that SL is a REGULAR COP with two red checks
On June 23 2017 08:20 Blazinghand wrote: OK SO THEORY. AS we know, SickLucker crumbed his N1 and N2 checks here, which was SAME on FEFE and Chezitwo. However, pay attention to how he wrote it:
On June 22 2017 19:19 sicklucker wrote:
On June 22 2017 18:05 disformation wrote: so lets start again:
town: fefe chezitwo
if ppl scumread any of those two i would like to see reasons/cases
I have a red check on both of them
I don't know about you folks but I pretty much immediately ignored this. I assumed it was a troll or a joke, not a serious claim in any way. In fact, he doesn't claim they're both the same alignment, he claims they're both Red checks.
Now imagine FeFe and Chez are townies. If FeFe and Chez are both Green, and Mafia sees SL, who to them is just some townie, claim he has redchecks on them, why would they shoot him? Who cares, he's some weirdo doing weird things.
BUT THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENEd
MAFIA SHOT HIM.
Which means, when they saw SL say "i have redchecks on FeFe and Chez" they probably started freaking out because fefe and chez are actually mafia. Their Rb, Xat, is dead; so they can't just wait one more day for town to maybe lynch SL, cause then SL will die and leave us THREE checks (remember, they think he's a cop at this point). So they HAVE to shoot him right away even though he's like the top lynch target.
Mafia has no reason to rolecheck SL, he was considered suspicious and likely to get lynched. But, if FeFe and Chez ARE IN FACT MAFIA, then Mafia had a REALLY good reason to pay attention to this off-handed statement and freak out and shoot SL!
I think that SL crumbed so we'd know he got "same" on FeFe and Chez.
But I ALSO think that the way he was shot could only really happen if FeFe and Chez are Mafia and Mafia freaked the fuck out
this makes as much or more sense than the rolecop theory
now one of FeFe or Chez could still be town here, as an un-self-aware miller; and mafia think "ok, chez/fefe is one of us, but fefe/chez is a miller" and this still confirms, in their minds, that SL is a REGULAR COP with two red checks
they couldn't afford to let him live.
Not only is this just factually wrong and mafia probably wouldn't be stupid enough to think that SL wouldn't claim with 2 redckecks it is also definitely NOT more likely than the rolecop theory.
hmm, do you really think so though, like remembe,r this means MAfia rolecopped SL during N1 or N2. And then, during Day 3, when it was a faceoff between SL, the guy they "know" is Parity cop, and Grack, the guy they think is just some guy, why does the Grack wagon get so much more support than the SL wagon? there were like TWO dudes on SL at the end, but at some point it was very close. I feel mafia would have pushed to get SL lynched right away.
on top of that, this innocuous "I have two redchecks" troll remark seems normal to town but to mafia has to be a HUGE red flag when those two redchecks are on two mafia right (remember, mafia didn't know he was parity cop, thought he was regular cop, in this hypothetical)
Doesn't this counter the point you're trying to make? If they knew he was parity cop, wouldn't they try to vote him out?
OMG READING COMPREHENSION
I AM POINTING OUT THAT
IN A WORLD IN WHICH MAFIA HAD A ROLE CHECK
THEY WOULD PUSH SICKLUCKER
SINCE THEY DIDN'T
THEY DIDN'T HAVE A ROLE CHECK
SO WHY DID THEY SHOOT HIM
ITS NOT CAUSE HE WAS TOWN LEADER
ITS CAUSE THEY GOT HIS ROLE SOME OTHER WAY
LIKE HIS OVERNIGHT CLAIM
THAT ONLY STUCK OUT IF YOU ARE MAFIA
I AM POINTING OUT THAT THE COUNTERFACTUAL OF ROLE CHECK DOESN'T MAKE SENSE
Same.
On June 23 2017 09:00 Blazinghand wrote: Here's like all of Palmar's post in the last week:
On June 16 2017 16:39 Palmar wrote: I clicked darthfoley's filter. I don't like it much, and I would expect him to be a relatively easy townread if he was town. I think he is a good candidate for being mafia.
On June 16 2017 20:26 Palmar wrote: I'm just playing single player mafia mostly. Occasionally clicking filters, ignoring the thread, throwing out some opinions.
Life is good.
I'll try to maybe make my statement posts a bit more detailed when I cba.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
On June 20 2017 22:40 Rels wrote: @BTDT we're not lynching Palmar 'cause he did nothing scummy and some other people did. Filter length is something to consider but is not an absolute measure.
Yeah, basically this. But we should not allow Palmar to keep this up either regardless of his alignment.
Surely the stern facial expression will make me snap out of it.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
So, are you claiming it is normal for marv to completely vanish from TL due to rolling mafia? Because if you are not you don't have a leg to stand on.
On June 20 2017 22:57 Palmar wrote: I voted for skynx. He sounds distinctly less towny than he did the last game i played with him. I'm not complaining that the content is different, he just sounds less sassy.
It's a weak vote atm, I'll probably read some more later.
On June 20 2017 22:51 beentheredonethat wrote: the "marv disappears when he's scum" shit is actually valid, I can confirm that from Generic I (I think. Might've been one of the other games I hosted). The scum qt in this game is full of "omg I rolled scum" shit.
Then again, I haven't seen him post here around tl so I don't know how valid it is
also this is one of the few points Palmar can make because he's been absent basically. So I'd treat this with care. chezitwo appeared townie to me
I have not read anything of Chezitwo's posts, it's very much just based on that. Which is why I don't particularly want to lynch him, it basically wouldn't be fair to the guy.
I'm kinda hoping the situation resolves itself through a vigi shot or something.
On June 20 2017 22:40 Rels wrote: @BTDT we're not lynching Palmar 'cause he did nothing scummy and some other people did. Filter length is something to consider but is not an absolute measure.
He did nothing townie, either. And a super bad reason to not lynch an obvious lurker. He managed to vote each cycle. He even comes in every now and then, throw accusations at people, doesn't follow up AND he freely admits to neither read nor care about this game.
I don't know why we don't lynch (or shoot) such a player.
To be fair, I freely admit to never reading any game I play.
But yes, been extra lazy this game. Just had stuff to do.
On June 16 2017 00:40 Palmar wrote: So I clicked two more filters.
beentheredonethat is strange. There's some weird stuff in his filter like gettin into an argument if he's carefree. But there's also some townie sounding, albeit not very useful stuff. He goes in the "could be either category"
AMG hasn't posted at all, lucky me that was an easy filter to read.
I still think voting sicklucker is a good idea and I'm gonna park my vote there. Btdt should probably sheep me as he thinks sicklucker's contributions are atrocious.
Hey, Palmar, we have a sicklucker train going. You care?
On June 16 2017 16:39 Palmar wrote: I clicked darthfoley's filter. I don't like it much, and I would expect him to be a relatively easy townread if he was town. I think he is a good candidate for being mafia.
Hey, Palmar, this guy flipped town.
On June 20 2017 06:43 Palmar wrote: Rels is evil!
I have no idea, I haven't read much lately.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
On June 16 2017 00:41 Palmar wrote: Btw, if we're killing inactive/modkill-territory people, we kill AMG, not marv.
Hey, Palmar, lynch into the AMG slot instead of the slot where you're suspecting scum!marv?
Ok the first two things are basically me bitching but the last one is valid and scummy
I actually think the first things are better, especially being wrong (mildly... I never voted him) on darthfoley.
The last part is completely irrelevant. I posted the first post on day 1 for very good reasons (marv is both a great player and a good friend of mine, so keeping him alive would always be optimal). However when it's clear marv isn't playing and is replaced by a smurf, I no longer have any personal attachments to the slot (ie, I really want to play with marv).
So cold calculation leads me to believe it is not unlikely, based on something completely out of his control, that Chezitwo is mafia. However, as I already said, I do not really want to lynch him for that without suspecting him specifically (and not the slot), because it's an asshole thing to do.
I didn't even know we had a train on sicklucker. Is there an actual case I can read somewhere?
I read a few more posts of skynx, I think I'll be unvoting him, he has a few decent posts.
On June 20 2017 22:40 Rels wrote: @BTDT we're not lynching Palmar 'cause he did nothing scummy and some other people did. Filter length is something to consider but is not an absolute measure.
Yeah, basically this. But we should not allow Palmar to keep this up either regardless of his alignment.
Surely the stern facial expression will make me snap out of it.
Apparently it did :D
On June 20 2017 22:46 Palmar wrote:
On June 20 2017 07:40 Chezitwo wrote:
On June 20 2017 06:43 Palmar wrote: Rels is evil!
I have no idea, I haven't read much lately.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
So, are you claiming it is normal for marv to completely vanish from TL due to rolling mafia? Because if you are not you don't have a leg to stand on.
Yes, that is exactly what I am claiming.
How am I supposed to believe that a guy like this:
On June 16 2017 07:40 Palmar wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:37 Koshi wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:36 Fecalfeast wrote: Shenannie onto marv?
😇I'm only half joking
nha. 0 posts is not his mafia style. He has some dignity and respect for the game.
He had, tbh.
He's the guy who just quit a game because he rolled mafia, as much as I like him (I love the guy, he's by far guy I've interacted most with outside of mafia that I've met here) he has been rather sketchy in his appearances lately. If anything his silence does point to him being mafia (or simply having forgotten about the game).
does not realize that marvs universal TL absence is obviously not connected to a mafia game he signed up for ages ago? Walk me through this. Do you actually believe marv would stop himself from posting on this forum because of this game? Not to mention that he stopped posting way before it started and he could know his alignment.
marv barely posts outside tl mafia at all, like his entire tl existence is basically tl mafia.
On June 20 2017 23:45 disformation wrote: yeah i think i'll make a decent case on sl later. basically: creates the annul wagon via "read his filter didnt like it" pushes really hard (uncharacteristic for sl) has a false/bad xata town lean/read says xata might be town after all after flip
aaaand:
On June 16 2017 07:54 Holyflare wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:51 Holyflare wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:49 sicklucker wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:47 Holyflare wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:45 Eversince wrote: This is going to make me look like garbage.
I haven't read anything since pg 35ish. Give me the the rough of what's happen between now and then for Xata, Annul, and SL.
I don't have time to fact check so my vote is entirely blind at this point.
sl came to the thread and town read xatalos because xatalos has different reads to most of the game (when in fact xatalos' reads are blending with the rest of the game
sl says i'm mafia for calling all the town leaders mafia and it's my mafia meta when 100% of other games he states my mafia meta is to push lurkers
sl is trying to force the wagon onto someone who is blatantly self-preserving and revealing his plan for all to see, who stubbornly refuses to change his reads despite everyone yelling at him mafia
sl is mafia
I said that because xata had a mafia read on ryan and everyone else town read him. get over it you lost save your buddy
xata doesn't have a mafia read on rayn, he said he can still be scum but doesn't actually say he scum reads him at all
Ruxxar and Fecalfeast are voting together once more. Both rather townread people. Why was everyone so super sure on Fecalfeast again? I think there were valid points but don't remember.
VayneAuthority ended up on Skynx D1 and is now up on the Grack wagon after popping in for a while. So D1 a non-committal vote and D3 joining the wagon in a strong fashion (I think joining a wagon as #5/#6 has more weight than #1/#2) which gives me worries. What are VA's reasons?
Like, people from the annul wagon aren't exactly cleared. We're focusing on Rels, Grack, ES, but left out Ruxxar for a lot of time (for which exact reasons?)
Hmm
Ruxxar, from what little I've read of him, kinda sounds like town, but it's not a strong read.
On June 22 2017 08:40 Palmar wrote: I forgot Vivax is bad. That's on me
Listing all Palmar's posts.
On June 26 2017 17:04 Blazinghand wrote: living players:
Palmar Rels Disfo VA BTDT Rayn Blaze FF Skynx RuXxar ES
Living claimers (do not lynch): VA who claims as the Vigilante who shot SL during N3 ES who claims as the Tracker who tracked SL to TW N1, Chezi N2, and Rels to nobody N3, and was RBed N4
Likely town: Disfo RuXXar Fecal ... much lower, Skynx
Potential Scums (in the order I'd lynch them): Palmar BTDT Rels Rayn
--
So some reasoning here. On the d1 Annul vs Xat wagon, the following 6 people were on Xat: Xatalos (6): DF, Koshi, Skynx, Disfo, annul, HF.
Everyone who has flipped has been green. Every one of these votes was potentially like "the vote that might make the difference and get Xat lynched D1" and I see no reason to believe that Disfo is scum. Skynx has been very low-activity recently, but I feel like it would have been pretty high risk to be on the Xat wagon here. even if scum had "slack" in the lynch. So I'm basically on board with the idea that the whole wagon was green.
The people who were on the Annul wagon: annul (7):sicklucker, ruXxar, Fecalfeast, Xatalos, Rels, Grackaroni, Eversince Non-voters and third-party-voters (any of whom could have potentially swung this vote): Neither (8): Palmar, Vivax, TW, VA, Damdred, Rayn, Blaze, Chez
So of our lynched scum, one was on annul, and one was third-party. This ALREADY tells us scum had some "slack" in the Annul lynch. TW could have come back and moved his vote from Marv to annul. So scum was already not going "all out" on annul. If they weren't voting Xat, the place for them to be are the "neither" voters. People who didn't vote, or people who voted for an unrelated candidate (as TW did). If we're talking a 4-scum game, I'd guess 2 of them were on annul to push him over, and hte other two either were afk or hid their votes in the assortment of useless wagons.
I think there's a solid chance that someone else on the annul wagon is scum. I think Ruxxar has generally been really engaged all game; he's likely town. ES has claimed, and we don't yet have any reason to doubt it. Fecalfeast is part of the cohort (along with disfo, ruxxar, and chezi) that I spoke with after the dawn of Day 4. Remember, during a period of time, SL had flipped and we were trying to reason things out. Scum, we can now reasonably infer, had shot Chez and noticed it failed, and on top of that, that SL who they did not shoot has flipped. Scum doesn't know what happened, what prots if any went on, who shot whom, etc. This was exciting and interesting news for town, and confusing news for scum, what happened with the D1 flip. After the VA claim, scum had a lot more information to work on and probably came out of the woodwork, and after the ES claim, they were safe to operate and make statements with surety about what checks they were opearing against, and to bus/not bus etc. I think scum had every motivation in the world to NOT be posting right after that flip. It would be very risky. So the people who dove into convo with me, FF, Disfo, and Ruxxar, are highly unlikely to be scum in my view.
So leaving out people on the xat wagon, people who claimed, and people who reacted in a townie way to the start-of-D4 flip (and in a way that would be VERY costly potentially as scum), this leaves Palm, Rels, BTDT, and Rayn. Among them, are at least 2 scum.
I think we can all agree that Palm's play has left something to be desired. Rels, well, you may not agree with me on him, but he still isn't exonnerated by these thoughts. BTDT has gotten suspicion and played weird all game. I've liked rayn, but I always like rayn, and he (like palmar) was a "neither" vote during D1.
With 11 alive, we can consider the 2-mafia and the 3-mafia situation.
2-mafia situation: Today, 9-2. If we ML, tomorrow is 7-2 If we ML again, next day is 5-2 If we ML again, day after is 3-2 LYLO
3-mafia situation: today, 8-3 If we ML, tomorrow is 6-3 If we ML again, the next day is 4-3 LYLO
The latter situation seems more likely given that we seem to have 5 blues. However, if we are hunting for 3 mafia in a pool of 4, we can afford a mislynch. If we take down Palm, BTDT, Rels, Rayn, we win. Heck, this is true in a 9-2 situation also. In both situations we have plenty of ML's worth of cushion. Anyways, if people disagree with me please let me know and it's of course better to discuss things than to autolynch and lose momentum. But I think we baaasically have this wrapped up. And with a 5th blue in the shadows, we have even more degrees of freedom here.
Setup analysis to get a POE list. Also see my post just above.
I always owned it. Also my PoE List, you say that like it's bad or something, but I actually think it's right on the money. we got this wrapped up.
Anyways I basically don't buy this comeback from Palmar so I'm voting him. He remains my top dude.
##vote Palmar
why ? He's pushing BTDT, who "played weird all game" apparently ? Palmar comes back and call one of your POE scum. What should he have done to be town in your book ?
Nothing, there's nothing he could have done today, actually. not with how he's played so far.
Then I don't understand that your POE post is not stating that exact fact. And I don't understand why you wouldn't vote him right as the day start.
On June 28 2017 01:41 Rels wrote: well. OK. ##Unvote ##Vote Palmar
So what's your reasoning here, for why Palmar is scum?
On June 28 2017 00:53 Rels wrote: Literally less than 1 hour before. Palmar didn't convince me at all. On the contrary. Seems like he jumped on the first opportunity he saw, even bending the reality bit when he said "btdt ended the day as a single random vote on Koshi instead of trying to kill his scumread", because: - after the post he quotes, BTDT had another post where he shows he scumread Koshi some more - BTD wasn't there at EOD, and when he was there Koshi was the main wagon I also have the impression he's buddying me while keeping the option to jump on me. That's twice now he said: "First of all, I still like the fact that he recognizes I'm not mafia, that there is no way I play this way as mafia." Implying, if I start to scumread him, this no longer holds.
On June 28 2017 01:41 Rels wrote: well. OK. ##Unvote ##Vote Palmar
So what's your reasoning here, for why Palmar is scum?
Literally less than 1 hour before.
On June 28 2017 00:53 Rels wrote: Palmar didn't convince me at all. On the contrary. Seems like he jumped on the first opportunity he saw, even bending the reality bit when he said "btdt ended the day as a single random vote on Koshi instead of trying to kill his scumread", because: - after the post he quotes, BTDT had another post where he shows he scumread Koshi some more - BTD wasn't there at EOD, and when he was there Koshi was the main wagon I also have the impression he's buddying me while keeping the option to jump on me. That's twice now he said: "First of all, I still like the fact that he recognizes I'm not mafia, that there is no way I play this way as mafia." Implying, if I start to scumread him, this no longer holds.
On June 28 2017 01:41 Rels wrote: well. OK. ##Unvote ##Vote Palmar
Rels lynching people he doesn't think are mafia.
noted.
Oh hey I missed that.
Rels can you explain?
Literally in the last few pages.
On June 28 2017 00:53 Rels wrote: Palmar didn't convince me at all. On the contrary. Seems like he jumped on the first opportunity he saw, even bending the reality bit when he said "btdt ended the day as a single random vote on Koshi instead of trying to kill his scumread", because: - after the post he quotes, BTDT had another post where he shows he scumread Koshi some more - BTD wasn't there at EOD, and when he was there Koshi was the main wagon I also have the impression he's buddying me while keeping the option to jump on me. That's twice now he said: "First of all, I still like the fact that he recognizes I'm not mafia, that there is no way I play this way as mafia." Implying, if I start to scumread him, this no longer holds.
On June 28 2017 01:20 Rels wrote: so basically: I want to kill BH or Palmar. Palmar seems the easiest lynch to get but I would prefer BH.
The scumteam is very likely BH / Palmar / ? ? is likely to be Skynx or ruxxar. I think I see town!rayn in the way he's pushing me. He basically is internally mad that I have better reads than him + called him unsmart so he doesn't want me to be town.
On June 28 2017 05:04 disformation wrote: man. i am tired as fuck.
wanted to write something about palmars d3 where he ended up sheeping vivax read on grack in the end. adn then went like "oops". he had actually a few posts on that. *shrugs*
overall i am not sure if i would be more pissed if we dont lynch palmar today and he turns out be scum or if we lynch him and he flips town.
so i think rayns response to palmar is prolly town cause i can kinda feel that too. which means i am more confident i rayn being town.
doesnt help me with the palmar thing though.
and rels had palmar as scum #3 or something. so not really a town read.
On June 28 2017 02:49 Fecalfeast wrote: Hm.
Palmar wagon seems trash just based on votes plus the rels switch for no apparent reason is disconcerting
still does sheep me. wat?
Rels had me as 3rd party for a long, long time. It's rather scummy he's now okay with my lynch. He's basically letting a lynch he knows isn't a scum lynch just go down without much in the way of fighting it.
yeah, you had to convince me today. But our main thing you did wasn't convincing: your BTDT case. Which was based on things that were wrong, and easily checkable. So, sorry if you're town, I know it's hard to put the effort when everyone is against you. But your case wasn't good
On June 28 2017 05:04 disformation wrote: man. i am tired as fuck.
wanted to write something about palmars d3 where he ended up sheeping vivax read on grack in the end. adn then went like "oops". he had actually a few posts on that. *shrugs*
overall i am not sure if i would be more pissed if we dont lynch palmar today and he turns out be scum or if we lynch him and he flips town.
so i think rayns response to palmar is prolly town cause i can kinda feel that too. which means i am more confident i rayn being town.
doesnt help me with the palmar thing though.
and rels had palmar as scum #3 or something. so not really a town read.
On June 28 2017 02:49 Fecalfeast wrote: Hm.
Palmar wagon seems trash just based on votes plus the rels switch for no apparent reason is disconcerting
still does sheep me. wat?
Rels had me as 3rd party for a long, long time. It's rather scummy he's now okay with my lynch. He's basically letting a lynch he knows isn't a scum lynch just go down without much in the way of fighting it.
yeah, you had to convince me today. But our main thing you did wasn't convincing: your BTDT case. Which was based on things that were wrong, and easily checkable. So, sorry if you're town, I know it's hard to put the effort when everyone is against you. But your case wasn't good
Case was based on nothing that is wrong. Also you're ignoring everything else I did, and finally at no point did you show any interest in getting anything from me. Disfo, rayn etc really tried to reason with the giant pile of "fuck you" that I can sometimes be, trying to get me to explain things.
You? Nada.
But here am I ... Case was actually based on wrong stuff:
On June 28 2017 00:53 Rels wrote: Palmar didn't convince me at all. On the contrary. Seems like he jumped on the first opportunity he saw, even bending the reality bit when he said "btdt ended the day as a single random vote on Koshi instead of trying to kill his scumread", because: - after the post he quotes, BTDT had another post where he shows he scumread Koshi some more - BTD wasn't there at EOD, and when he was there Koshi was the main wagon I also have the impression he's buddying me while keeping the option to jump on me. That's twice now he said: "First of all, I still like the fact that he recognizes I'm not mafia, that there is no way I play this way as mafia." Implying, if I start to scumread him, this no longer holds.
On June 28 2017 07:51 Blazinghand wrote: we can lynch him tomorrow! Rels is a useless sack of crap, rhetorically speaking, but Palmar has been playing more. He might still be scum, but one more day. we should give him onre more
this is 100% untrue. You cannot think that. You said yourself a few hours ago that Palmar was 100% useless and 100% scum in your mind.
fucking rayn yelling that BH is fucking town and that I'm fucking scum. I want him to be scum. I odn't want that to be town!rayn. But I'm pretty sure it's town!rayn.
On June 28 2017 08:12 Blazinghand wrote: I like Rels pivoting to me now, classic. Of course now he wants to go on me but not BTDT, because that makes sense??? unless of course, REls is scum. In which case it makes perfect sense. Because he's scum.
lol. Cause I never scumread you this game right. This sealed the deal. You can't explain why you would rather lynch me than your 100% scumread. It doesn't make sense. I'll fight for your lynch. You're conf scum to me.
On June 28 2017 17:51 disformation wrote: anyway: town: rayn, va, es 50/50: fefe, skynx lynchables: rels, btdt
bh is imo town, his eod makes no sense as scum. prolly somewhere between town and 50/50 town lean so to say. like why would scum!bh stick out his neck this hard and try to save palmar when he is scum with rels or it is a tvt? makes little sense to me. to much emotion in bh for scum. not impossible he is setting up a palmar into rels ml in a tvt world, but dunno not feeling it. fefe got demoted for sitting on his hands eod, while pushing in neither direction. dont mind skynx eod.
i really dont like btdt's eod and dont see that coming from a town pov, as just outlined. rels had a bunch of posts i really disliked after the flip and he was a fairly contested counterwagon. maybe should have listened to rayn.
somehow forget about ruxxar. will check later.
Bolded is all wrong. It's exactly something BH can do, as either alignement TBF. The fact that he TRIED to do it 1 hour before; redid it again at deadline; and even admitted it was planned:
On June 28 2017 08:08 Blazinghand wrote: FUCK
THIS IS ALL BECAUSE I WENT OFF AN HOUR EARLY. I FUCKED THIS UP
makes your "too much emotion in bh for scum" wrong. Since it was planned.
On June 28 2017 17:51 disformation wrote: anyway: town: rayn, va, es 50/50: fefe, skynx lynchables: rels, btdt
bh is imo town, his eod makes no sense as scum. prolly somewhere between town and 50/50 town lean so to say. like why would scum!bh stick out his neck this hard and try to save palmar when he is scum with rels or it is a tvt? makes little sense to me. to much emotion in bh for scum. not impossible he is setting up a palmar into rels ml in a tvt world, but dunno not feeling it. fefe got demoted for sitting on his hands eod, while pushing in neither direction. dont mind skynx eod.
i really dont like btdt's eod and dont see that coming from a town pov, as just outlined. rels had a bunch of posts i really disliked after the flip and he was a fairly contested counterwagon. maybe should have listened to rayn.
somehow forget about ruxxar. will check later.
Bolded is all wrong. It's exactly something BH can do, as either alignement TBF. The fact that he TRIED to do it 1 hour before; redid it again at deadline; and even admitted it was planned:
On June 28 2017 08:08 Blazinghand wrote: FUCK
THIS IS ALL BECAUSE I WENT OFF AN HOUR EARLY. I FUCKED THIS UP
makes your "too much emotion in bh for scum" wrong. Since it was planned.
actually a fair point. but why go through that whole scheme/motion as scum in the first place
lol you're serious. 1 - to get townread, exactly what you did 2 - to get me or Palmar lynched for being a counter wagon, exactly what you did: "rels had a bunch of posts i really disliked after the flip and he was a fairly contested counterwagon"
On June 28 2017 18:17 disformation wrote: ah fuck i did the thing where i already gave you some reasons so i cant discern your alignment based on your answer
I'll make posts explaining my thoughts when I have the time IE tonight. The TLDR on Skynx is his continuous investigative tone + how he thinks about the game, trying to find teams that makes sense + attacking disfo when it makes no sense to do that. I have opinion on BTDT. My opinion is that I'm conflicted. More on that tonight
Watcher is a stupidly strong role. Even without considering if the checks make sense or not, I don't think tracker + watcher + parity cop ever makes sense. Scum can lose so hard just getting wrecked by checks by those 3 roles.
On June 30 2017 00:09 beentheredonethat wrote: because I expected the kill on VA. There was this jailor talk and when I submitted the check, I didn't know it was bullshit
What changed between then and now ? Why was VA likely blue before and scum now ?
On June 30 2017 00:09 beentheredonethat wrote: and my checks weren't horrible. I yelled for a vig shot on Xata because I had a good chance to confirm the vig if only he had shot.
Makes little sense to me over watching a town leader likely to get shot.
On June 30 2017 00:12 Rels wrote: Watcher is a stupidly strong role. Even without considering if the checks make sense or not, I don't think tracker + watcher + parity cop ever makes sense. Scum can lose so hard just getting wrecked by checks by those 3 roles.
good. someone to talk to. do you think something like: watcher parity cop tracker vet
vs
gf rolecop strongarm roleblocker
might work?
lemme think best town nightactions: watcher/tracker find 2 scum n1 parity cop/watcher/tracker find 3 scum n2 -1 for gf
that is still 4/5 in 2 nights... that seems really op...
yep. Potentially all 5 scums could be identified start of D3 with ideal actions.
doesn't matter. In your scenario, scum could mechanically lose start of D3, which is very, very unlikely. I also cohosted a lot with HTS so I know she takes balance matter pretty seriously.
Even taking into account that, you saying you watched Xata to discover who the vig is makes no sense to me.
Finally, you still didn't answer why you thought VA was legit yesterday, and now it has changed. I don't understand why you would think VA is blue - that's a lot of blue if you're also blue. I also don't understand why you didn't watch ES in that case, it was the obvious target since she could still act, unlike VA.
Skynx is his continuous investigative tone + how he thinks about the game, trying to find teams that makes sense + attacking disfo when it makes no sense to do that.
please
For the tone, it's basically the whole shitfight with BTDT, where he is seems much more natural than BTDT. Thinking about what team makes sense + attacking disfo, it's these posts where he suddenly townreads BTDT when he doesn't need to as scum, then doesn't buddy town leaders:
Half the Sky is throwing Grackaroni out of her whiskey bar.
Observations: 1 Pretty much uncontested Grack wagon 2 Votes in hammer range on town: Tumblewood, sicklucker, Blazinghand 3 Irrelevant votes: raynpelikoneet, Palmar (starting with Rayn as hammer because Fecalfeast was originally part of the Grack wagon) 4 "Counter wagon" votes: Rels, Skynx, Chezitwo 5 Wasted votes: disformation, (Fecalfeast)
re: 1)
Having an uncontested wagon where no big discussion is revolving around pretty much means it's a town wagon. However, I think there was actually a lot of discussion in the past day, especially started by Rels. I am town reading Rels right now; he came out of the lurker shadows to actually talk. I also like his fighting with rayn and I'm super worried about rayn not being the town super hero that pushes people around. So Rels up, rayn down, although I gotta admit I haven't looked too deeply into the fight these two have. My association between Skynx and Grack was obviously wrong. Nevertheless I find it super suspicious that Skynx chimed in, threw around some shade, later on pissed off, let the Grack lynch happen without really putting in work to push the sicklucker lynch. I am sure that there is scum on the Grack wagon and I am fairly certain that not all scummers are on that wagon; and Skynx' vote feels off. We have two mislynches as someone pointed out; so a vig shot (if available) gets more and more risky - but Skynx is a decent target. But I'm super super super afraid here.
Scum pool: Skynx, Eversince (voted super late each time) Town should be: disformation (mehhhhhhhh, and only if he doesn't die this night lol, and town rage), Chezitwo (mainly based on D2), Rels (based on D3) Meh: Palmar, Tumblewood, Blazinghand, ruxxar, Fecalfeast, VayneAuthority, sicklucker, rayn
I hope I didn't forget anyone.
re: 2)
These three players were basically the ones who sealed the Grack lynch: Tumblewood, sicklucker, Blazinghand. All of them will be moved to the scum pool for that:
Scum pool: Skynx, Eversince, Tumblewood, sicklucker, Blazinghand Town should be: disformation, Chezitwo, Rels Meh: Palmar, ruxxar, Fecalfeast, VayneAuthority, rayn
So without further ado, they come into the scum pool.
re: 3)
Same as 2), can just be scum chiming in.
Scum pool: Skynx, Eversince, Tumblewood, sicklucker, Blazinghand, Palmar, rayn Town should be: disformation, Chezitwo, Rels Meh: ruxxar, Fecalfeast, VayneAuthority
re: 4)
Rels pushing sicklucker matches what he did all D2. I don't think that this is scum pushing a second town wagon here. So if Rels would be scum, then sicklucker would most likely also be scum and we have a bus attempt to get town cred, which IMHO is a rather bad and useless bus because there's no way Rels gains towncred from this vote if sicklucker flips scum at any point. Skynx' vote on the other hand isn't as solid als Rels' vote. He not voting Grack (although he did say something about voting Grack, or am I wrong there?) is actually scum indicative here as he pretty much wasted his vote, putting it on unflipped instead of townflip. I'm certain Skynx is scum.
Chezitwo voting sicklucker - mehhhhhhhhhhhhh. Given how super eager he was to lynch Xata over Xata's cop claim, I don't know why he voted sicklucker here and kinda wasted his vote. I need to check the context of that vote as well as the reasoning. NAI imho but I'm not too sure. I don't have too many townreads so I'll keep him on the list "just cause" but I am indeed a bit paranoid.
re: 5) The only thing that comes to my mind is that disfo said early D3 that he'd end up voting Grackaroni anyways. Not sure what to make out of that but it striked me as weird.
[bolded]You know what btdt is town, All of the previous day he associated me with Grack, actually believing Grack is mafia and obv ready to lynch me after Grack flips scum. If he's scum he obv knows Grack's gona flip town so this doesn't make sense from his pow. Ofc this is fakeable but just fits more to tunneled bad town imo. Imagine i switched to grack, he's still gona sr me. He's just tunneled for whatever reason and doesn't want to drop his shitty read on me and look bad so comes up with bunch of shade throwing. I'm gona ignore him for now cuz he's irritating.
On June 27 2017 04:41 Skynx wrote: I disagree strongly with BH on
Remember, during a period of time, SL had flipped and we were trying to reason things out. Scum, we can now reasonably infer, had shot Chez and noticed it failed, and on top of that, that SL who they did not shoot has flipped. Scum doesn't know what happened, what prots if any went on, who shot whom, etc. This was exciting and interesting news for town, and confusing news for scum, what happened with the D1 flip. After the VA claim, scum had a lot more information to work on and probably came out of the woodwork, and after the ES claim, they were safe to operate and make statements with surety about what checks they were opearing against, and to bus/not bus etc. I think scum had every motivation in the world to NOT be posting right after that flip. It would be very risky. So the people who dove into convo with me, FF, Disfo, and Ruxxar, are highly unlikely to be scum in my view.
In fact at least 1 scum would prolly pop in and comment on stuff without committing so clearing people this way is not the best idea, especially the first hours of the day where people are discussing mechanics.
On June 27 2017 06:11 Skynx wrote: Fefe i dont like since D1 but cant really put together a case either. He is around and when he talks he makes sense but not in a game solving way if that makes sense.
I'm gona have to filter dive people at some point. Hope Palmar is mafia and not 3P otherwise im pretty lost since now i tr btdt.
Ruxxar is still very town so fefe/rels as scum on annul makes sense but now 3 votes piled up on rels all of a sudden when previously most ppl whos not rayn was tring him. I like rayn but not yet convinced on rels.
You being alive this late in the game is also not a good sign disfo.
On June 27 2017 06:11 Skynx wrote: Fefe i dont like since D1 but cant really put together a case either. He is around and when he talks he makes sense but not in a game solving way if that makes sense.
I'm gona have to filter dive people at some point. Hope Palmar is mafia and not 3P otherwise im pretty lost since now i tr btdt.
Ruxxar is still very town so fefe/rels as scum on annul makes sense but now 3 votes piled up on rels all of a sudden when previously most ppl whos not rayn was tring him. I like rayn but not yet convinced on rels.
You being alive this late in the game is also not a good sign disfo.
why?
You've been the town pillar since D1, i expect them to shoot you at some point but they haven't so.
On June 28 2017 18:44 Rels wrote: I'll make posts explaining my thoughts when I have the time IE tonight. The TLDR on Skynx is his continuous investigative tone + how he thinks about the game, trying to find teams that makes sense + attacking disfo when it makes no sense to do that. I have opinion on BTDT. My opinion is that I'm conflicted. More on that tonight
yeah I wanted to make a case on BH + reread filters yesterday night. But my GF had other plans p:
On June 30 2017 02:43 disformation wrote: but i agree that rels should go back and talk more about:
On June 28 2017 18:20 Rels wrote: Skynx is not scum. disfo is not scum. rayn is not scum. FF is probably not scum.
BH is scum.
This is where I'm restarting from.
On June 28 2017 18:44 Rels wrote: I'll make posts explaining my thoughts when I have the time IE tonight. The TLDR on Skynx is his continuous investigative tone + how he thinks about the game, trying to find teams that makes sense + attacking disfo when it makes no sense to do that. I have opinion on BTDT. My opinion is that I'm conflicted. More on that tonight
yeah I wanted to make a case on BH + reread filters yesterday night. But my GF had other plans p:
The case on balzinghand is irrelevant today. Tell me what i asked you about your Skynx read.
It was not yesterday. And it's not irrelevant since BTDT is 99% the lynch now.
On June 30 2017 03:11 disformation wrote: bh not 100% sure yet, but his eod was also super weird. so i can see scum trying to setup some ml's and fucking up. makes also sense with a world where rels is town.
That doesn't make any sense since whichever of Palmar / Rels gets lynched the other one is already a mislynch #1. That's why i am conflicted on why what BOTH btdt and BH did on EoD. There has to be a reason, and "setuping a mislynch on Rels/Palmar the next day" is not a conclusion 100%.
First, it makes sense exactly to make you think BH is town 'caues scum wouldn't do it. Second, I remember BH being shennannies king. I even think he was famous for that at one point.
rayn I have no idea how you can not scumread BH over me. I don't know why everyone in this game seems to consider us at kinda the same level. I see only scum in him.
On June 30 2017 03:54 Skynx wrote: Btw have to say I'm not gona consider anyone else before btdt and Rels is dead
Yeah given yesterday's EoD I consider this to be 100% the way things should go down. Also this is in line with my original plan from yesterday so I am a happy camper
lol. BH makes no sense here. What about yesterday's EOD ? He created the situation himself, and now he's using it to further push me. It would be the same if it was Palmar that lived - he would be using that exact argument. It's a loop without a start.
On June 30 2017 03:54 Skynx wrote: Btw have to say I'm not gona consider anyone else before btdt and Rels is dead
Yeah given yesterday's EoD I consider this to be 100% the way things should go down. Also this is in line with my original plan from yesterday so I am a happy camper
lol. BH makes no sense here. What about yesterday's EOD ? He created the situation himself, and now he's using it to further push me. It would be the same if it was Palmar that lived - he would be using that exact argument. It's a loop without a start.
I'm not talking bout the flip bro
but you're not actually analyzing the game as you are scum so whatevs
this question is dumb since that is exactly what you just said. But that makes no sense. WHY THE FUCK would you think something so specific early game ?
On July 03 2017 05:46 Fecalfeast wrote: The way I see it it's probably skynx from an effort put into scumhunting perspective. I'm also wary of this rels lynch solely based on how you and skynx are both setting me up for next day making me think the mafia knows this will be a mislynch and then I am the game winning ezpz mislynch.
Since Skynx is pushing you with the perspective that I'm your partner, this doesn't make sense. In your mind it should mean that Skynx is scum with me and setting up your ML tomorrow after I flip scum.
yeah. I will write my thoughts and fight for BH's lynch tonight. But in all objectivity I fully expect to end up like Palmar. Too many people have been saying that I'm scum for too many days for half the players to change to let me live until the end of the game. Only great players have the ability to ignore that thread pressure.
It's stuff like BH repeating I'm scum when he never had a reason to scumread me since the beginning of the game that made me in this situation. This post in particular makes me think.
On June 30 2017 03:54 Skynx wrote: Btw have to say I'm not gona consider anyone else before btdt and Rels is dead
Yeah given yesterday's EoD I consider this to be 100% the way things should go down. Also this is in line with my original plan from yesterday so I am a happy camper
Dude created the situation where I was almost the lynch over Palmar, then later uses it to push me. It's circular. It makes no sense. But given enough days the fact that I HAVE to be lynched before the end of the game enters the other players' mind.
then we have you, who is unable to see that I'm not scum. Who doesn't get shot over disfo even though nobody scumreads you anymore. And that's working.
how coud you still scumread rayn ? Yesterday he could have easily got the wagon running on me instead of BTDT. He's the reason BTDT was forced to claim in the first place
On July 03 2017 22:28 Rels wrote: then we have you, who is unable to see that I'm not scum. Who doesn't get shot over disfo even though nobody scumreads you anymore. And that's working.
If you somehow happen to be town don't you fucking dare to throw this on me when you have been probably the most irrational player in the game since fucking forever. Like even if i was to discout the stuff you did D3 and before you called a dude town for the posts that weren't townie at all in your opinion until... wanna guess?.. mr. btdt got lynched.
That thing in itself is so convenient for mafia. There is like 0% chance a townie ever ever ever does that. 0%. I am not going to believe that.
I am totally doing it.I'm not irrational as scum. You can't get me on stuff like that. I wanted to lynch BH instead of Palmar and disfo and you didn't want to.
On July 03 2017 22:28 Rels wrote: then we have you, who is unable to see that I'm not scum. Who doesn't get shot over disfo even though nobody scumreads you anymore. And that's working.
If you somehow happen to be town don't you fucking dare to throw this on me when you have been probably the most irrational player in the game since fucking forever. Like even if i was to discout the stuff you did D3 and before you called a dude town for the posts that weren't townie at all in your opinion until... wanna guess?.. mr. btdt got lynched.
That thing in itself is so convenient for mafia. There is like 0% chance a townie ever ever ever does that. 0%. I am not going to believe that.
I am totally doing it.I'm not irrational as scum. You can't get me on stuff like that. I wanted to lynch BH instead of Palmar and disfo and you didn't want to.
And i am totally voting for you for it. And yes you are irrational at times. Especially when you make shit up on me.
yep. Hence the "mm I wonder why you are alive instead of disfo" post. But please discard it as WIFOM then complain about how it's my fault post game.
On July 03 2017 22:59 Rels wrote: and I remember you calling people stupid for not lynching Palmar in the OUTLAW game when all the killed townies were scumreading him
and what does that have to do with anything in this game?
just showing that you're inconsistent. Not that I think it makes you scum. No nothing.
On July 03 2017 22:59 Rels wrote: and I remember you calling people stupid for not lynching Palmar in the OUTLAW game when all the killed townies were scumreading him
and what does that have to do with anything in this game?
just showing that you're inconsistent. Not that I think it makes you scum. No nothing.
do you realize that "people who scumread you die" != "you are alive and people townread you" ??????
what ? I was arguing that you're much more likely to tunnel me than disfo, and that's probably why he was killed over you.
'cause you said: "I am never gonna go into an argument why someone is alive over someone". Yet in the OUTLAW obs you raged about people not lynching Palmar when dead people were scumreading him.
On July 03 2017 23:09 Rels wrote: 'cause you said: "I am never gonna go into an argument why someone is alive over someone". Yet in the OUTLAW obs you raged about people not lynching Palmar when dead people were scumreading him.
I still dont see how that has anything to do with this game. If you think so then explain it in clear words. Again, if you are trying to say that i should townread you because i didn't die over disformation then don't bother.
that's exactly what I'm saying. You're kinda slow today. Stop asking pointless questions if you don't want to be "bothered"
well that's not a good try. That's what happened I'm pretty sure. When Vivax got killed N2 I was like "fuck someone that doesn't scumread me". I was sure Chezitwo was gonna be killed next, after he started not scumreading me anymore. He didn't - but that's because he was veteran, he actually got shot! Then killed afterwards. And now ofc disfo is killed. Every one of these didn't consider me as an auto lynch, contrary to the players that are left. That makes a lot of sense to me. This is the game plan scum are going for to go to LYLO. IDK if they're in a good position or not - if it's BH / ruxxar they're not really, if it's BH / FF they're better. But it just MAKES sense for a game plan, they're getting a ML easily now. And for some reason you are not taking it into account.
like, it's hard to explain. And I won't want to debate about it 'cause I can't prove it. But it makes sense. They're killing the people competent enough to think for themselves, and letting alive the people that are OK to either to tunnel or to sheep a lynch list. That's also why I'm not so sure about ruxxar - if he's town it makes perfect sense that he's alive.
On June 20 2017 08:25 Blazinghand wrote: hay guyz its me, blazinghand, how many kp do mafia have, also how many mafia factionz are thur i totez don't know cause I am a guy who didn't reed the op, i must be townie :o :o :o <3 also is it daytiem yet
i'm not sure why my ire is aimed at Rels and not Sicklucker but i assure you it was likely for good reasons
On June 27 2017 18:59 Palmar wrote: I wish Rels was around.
The more I read of his filter the less I think he's mafia. He's not being very productive at town, he's not doing very towny things, but his entire tone and attitude is very hard to fake as mafia.
Maybe he's just good at it.
Honestly I would much rather lynch btdt than Rels.
On July 03 2017 23:25 Rels wrote: That makes a lot of sense to me. This is the game plan scum are going for to go to LYLO. IDK if they're in a good position or not - if it's BH / ruxxar they're not really, if it's BH / FF they're better.
On June 28 2017 06:56 disformation wrote: well parlmar will prolly vote rels
Rels was faking dumbtells also..... and now he's like, FACK
FACK FACK FACK
On June 28 2017 06:56 Blazinghand wrote: Man both of these guys SHOULD be fine lynches anyways.
On June 28 2017 06:57 Blazinghand wrote: NO YOU KNOW WHAT
FUCK THIS SHIT I WANT TO SHENNANNIE ONTO RELS WHO IS WITH ME
On June 28 2017 06:57 Blazinghand wrote: WE HAVE TIME WE CAN DO IT Rels was faking dumbtells also..... and now he's like, FACK
FACK FACK FACK
No reason as to why he's switching on me apart from "Rels was faking dumbtells". Which: 1 - is and has always been the dumbest reason ever 2 - he himself was thinking was not a good reason to scumread me:
On June 27 2017 01:36 Palmar wrote: Did anyone ever attempt any kind of a case against Rels? Just so I can read anything on him. I won't read his filter today unless I decide to actually tryhard tonight.
Rayn has been the most outspoken. BH also has been scumreading rels. I have a few jabs here and there.
Yeah not gonna lie those early scumreads were not as solid as they shoulda been. But at this point it's more like "Rels hasn't done things to make him town"--and by this point, most townies should have. I will admit there is a chance he is town.
But he decides to try to get the swithc on me 1 hour before the deadline. Then again at deadline. When this doesn't match his Palmar read:
On June 28 2017 01:41 Blazinghand wrote: Anyways I basically don't buy this comeback from Palmar so I'm voting him. He remains my top dude.
##vote Palmar
On June 28 2017 01:44 Blazinghand wrote: Nothing, there's nothing he could have done today, actually. not with how he's played so far.
On June 28 2017 01:45 Blazinghand wrote: In fact I should have just voted for him at the start of the day. But he was making a lot of posts and I got nervous and had some last minute fear. Palmar's a smart guy. I guess I just choked. But whatever. There should have been, literally nothing that could convince me, and now I know that.
On June 28 2017 01:46 Blazinghand wrote:Yeah what can I say, he started posting and I had some doubts. I shouldn't have had them, they're irrational, he definitely only started in response to the pressure and scum losing another player: they were dumb doubts. But we all make mistakes, just like you are now trying to last minute defend your scum teammate.
+ before that, things that I've already pointed out:
On June 28 2017 00:58 Rels wrote: I would prefer to lynch BH though. Still nothing said that is worth anything apart from this big flashy post. That don't conclude in anything: + Show Spoiler +
On June 26 2017 17:04 Blazinghand wrote: living players:
Palmar Rels Disfo VA BTDT Rayn Blaze FF Skynx RuXxar ES
Living claimers (do not lynch): VA who claims as the Vigilante who shot SL during N3 ES who claims as the Tracker who tracked SL to TW N1, Chezi N2, and Rels to nobody N3, and was RBed N4
Likely town: Disfo RuXXar Fecal ... much lower, Skynx
Potential Scums (in the order I'd lynch them): Palmar BTDT Rels Rayn
--
So some reasoning here. On the d1 Annul vs Xat wagon, the following 6 people were on Xat: Xatalos (6): DF, Koshi, Skynx, Disfo, annul, HF.
Everyone who has flipped has been green. Every one of these votes was potentially like "the vote that might make the difference and get Xat lynched D1" and I see no reason to believe that Disfo is scum. Skynx has been very low-activity recently, but I feel like it would have been pretty high risk to be on the Xat wagon here. even if scum had "slack" in the lynch. So I'm basically on board with the idea that the whole wagon was green.
The people who were on the Annul wagon: annul (7):sicklucker, ruXxar, Fecalfeast, Xatalos, Rels, Grackaroni, Eversince Non-voters and third-party-voters (any of whom could have potentially swung this vote): Neither (8): Palmar, Vivax, TW, VA, Damdred, Rayn, Blaze, Chez
So of our lynched scum, one was on annul, and one was third-party. This ALREADY tells us scum had some "slack" in the Annul lynch. TW could have come back and moved his vote from Marv to annul. So scum was already not going "all out" on annul. If they weren't voting Xat, the place for them to be are the "neither" voters. People who didn't vote, or people who voted for an unrelated candidate (as TW did). If we're talking a 4-scum game, I'd guess 2 of them were on annul to push him over, and hte other two either were afk or hid their votes in the assortment of useless wagons.
I think there's a solid chance that someone else on the annul wagon is scum. I think Ruxxar has generally been really engaged all game; he's likely town. ES has claimed, and we don't yet have any reason to doubt it. Fecalfeast is part of the cohort (along with disfo, ruxxar, and chezi) that I spoke with after the dawn of Day 4. Remember, during a period of time, SL had flipped and we were trying to reason things out. Scum, we can now reasonably infer, had shot Chez and noticed it failed, and on top of that, that SL who they did not shoot has flipped. Scum doesn't know what happened, what prots if any went on, who shot whom, etc. This was exciting and interesting news for town, and confusing news for scum, what happened with the D1 flip. After the VA claim, scum had a lot more information to work on and probably came out of the woodwork, and after the ES claim, they were safe to operate and make statements with surety about what checks they were opearing against, and to bus/not bus etc. I think scum had every motivation in the world to NOT be posting right after that flip. It would be very risky. So the people who dove into convo with me, FF, Disfo, and Ruxxar, are highly unlikely to be scum in my view.
So leaving out people on the xat wagon, people who claimed, and people who reacted in a townie way to the start-of-D4 flip (and in a way that would be VERY costly potentially as scum), this leaves Palm, Rels, BTDT, and Rayn. Among them, are at least 2 scum.
I think we can all agree that Palm's play has left something to be desired. Rels, well, you may not agree with me on him, but he still isn't exonnerated by these thoughts. BTDT has gotten suspicion and played weird all game. I've liked rayn, but I always like rayn, and he (like palmar) was a "neither" vote during D1.
With 11 alive, we can consider the 2-mafia and the 3-mafia situation.
2-mafia situation: Today, 9-2. If we ML, tomorrow is 7-2 If we ML again, next day is 5-2 If we ML again, day after is 3-2 LYLO
3-mafia situation: today, 8-3 If we ML, tomorrow is 6-3 If we ML again, the next day is 4-3 LYLO
The latter situation seems more likely given that we seem to have 5 blues. However, if we are hunting for 3 mafia in a pool of 4, we can afford a mislynch. If we take down Palm, BTDT, Rels, Rayn, we win. Heck, this is true in a 9-2 situation also. In both situations we have plenty of ML's worth of cushion. Anyways, if people disagree with me please let me know and it's of course better to discuss things than to autolynch and lose momentum. But I think we baaasically have this wrapped up. And with a 5th blue in the shadows, we have even more degrees of freedom here.
Conclusion: 2 of these people are scum, and here is one reason for each they could be:
this leaves Palm, Rels, BTDT, and Rayn. Among them, are at least 2 scum.
I think we can all agree that Palm's play has left something to be desired. Rels, well, you may not agree with me on him, but he still isn't exonnerated by these thoughts. BTDT has gotten suspicion and played weird all game. I've liked rayn, but I always like rayn, and he (like palmar) was a "neither" vote during D1.
Then some more rambling about the state of the game. No risk at all taken.
On June 28 2017 01:01 Rels wrote: He's admitting his read wasn't solid there but is calling me potential scum 'cause I didn't do anything townie:
On June 27 2017 01:36 Palmar wrote: Did anyone ever attempt any kind of a case against Rels? Just so I can read anything on him. I won't read his filter today unless I decide to actually tryhard tonight.
Rayn has been the most outspoken. BH also has been scumreading rels. I have a few jabs here and there.
Yeah not gonna lie those early scumreads were not as solid as they shoulda been. But at this point it's more like "Rels hasn't done things to make him town"--and by this point, most townies should have.
But his scumread seemed way more sure hours before:
On June 26 2017 17:04 Blazinghand wrote: Rels, well, you may not agree with me on him, but he still isn't exonnerated by these thoughts.
On June 28 2017 01:11 Rels wrote: Let's not forget the numerous days of no-content posts since the beginning of the game. Never taking risk, but always there. Talking about irrelevant stuff and having almost no reads. Take a look at his filter and try to find a post that push the game forward. They are almost non existent. In fact here are some posts that look involved 'cause they're big, but don't push the game: + Show Spoiler +
On June 21 2017 18:34 disformation wrote: looking back at fefe: last post:
On June 21 2017 08:47 Fecalfeast wrote: So I went into VA's filter almost looking for reasons to scumread him and now that I made half a case about his read progression on grack and skynx...
I kinda think he's just low effort town.. The way he comes across seems so casual and while like 80% of his posts are setup talk or useless he seems to be looking at the game from a low information point of view and hasn't pushed any sort of agenda (scum or town) that I can see.
town. fairly sure.
Why is that townish? "I made a half-assed attempt to do something and my result is a not-really-committed townread"
How is that townish?
*sigh* why would scum do that? scum would just finish up the half finished case to look like having scumreads and done stuff. realizing half way through a case that you think the guy might actually be town is far more likely to come from town. aaaand the read isnt even as shitty as you make it out to be. "i cant see any agenda in va's filter" is a pretty strong statement.
Yeah I actually think this is a valid point. Like, here's how you should look at it.
On the really basic level, the first level, Scum aren't coming from the same mindset of hunting scum that Town come from. Which means it's hard for Scum to have good reads and feel confident pushing them. This means that Town might formulate a read and make a case, but Scum would worry about appearing scummy or something, and therefore try to leave open a line of retreat. See, if you're town, and you think someone is scum, even if it's unpopular to think that, you won't give it up. You have a belief; you have evidence; you're gonna go for it. Scum, though, they're not trying to lynch this guy they think is scum. Instead, theyr'e trying to not get lynched. so maybe theyw ant to build their cases and reads with a line of retreat so they can change their minds if it's unpopular.
So on a naive level you would expect Town to be decisive and Scum to be waffly.
But if you go down into the second level, it turns out taht sometimes as Town you're confused. And to a certain extent, town doesn't actually CARE about looking town. I mean, obvs you don't wanna get lynched but you're also highly concerned with finding scum. Whereas scum, their ONLY concern is about looking town. And if "looking town" means decisively posting aggressive cases, Scum will try to ape this as best they can. Town will only do this when it makes sense for them.
So, we might see someone posting waffle-like uncertain reads. This could mean "ah hah, this is scum planning to pull out of these reads if they aren't popular" and that's possible. But because this really stands out, and is obviously scummy, it's like... the kind of thing that scum tries (but not always succeeds) to avoid doing. And town to a certain extent doesn't actually give a shit. Town wants to lynch properly.
so "I did half-assed work and got a half-assed townread" is, you know, it's not something i'm gonna go giving people tons of townreads on that, but there's not a HUGE motivation for scum to do that because 1) a half-assed townread won't get anyone lynched and 2) it kinda stands out as "bad" in a sense. And I'm not saying "too bad to be scum" but you can see how a town has in some ways more chances of saying this than a scum, capisce
On June 22 2017 09:07 Rels wrote: lol. Yes it's simple. You're scumreading me because you don't believe I couldn't know that info as town. Which is what I find really dumb. Cause dumbtells happen literally all the time. Discussion closed.
Ok, so you DO understand me, you're just disagreeing loudly cause you know I caught you
Look at it this way Rels
There's like, one setup post, with like 7 lines in it. It's right there.
Now what do you think is more likely here, from an outside view? 1. A townie somehow doesn't know what's going on in the OP, and is actively planning around this lack of knowledge (hoping to have a way to stop 2 kp). Despite planning around this lack of knowledge he never looks at the OP, not when he signed up, not when the game started, not when 2 deaths came through N1, and so on. And so, somehow he goes through this existence of hoping/planning around this "knowledge" that he never even spent a second to check on. 2. A Mafia, is keenly aware of how Mafia KP works, but thinks, "ah hah, I could FAKE not knowing how mafia works, thereby PROVING that I am town"
Which is more likely? It's obviously #2. Mafia are willing to lie about everything: emotions, real life issues, being busy, being sick, reading the OP, etc. Townies, will always be curious and want to know how to play the game. And some may be oblivious, but most will not. Most of the time you see something of this caliber executed by someone at this time in the game, it is a mafia move to generate towniness
that read on me that makes no sense.
On June 23 2017 08:20 Blazinghand wrote: OK SO THEORY. AS we know, SickLucker crumbed his N1 and N2 checks here, which was SAME on FEFE and Chezitwo. However, pay attention to how he wrote it:
On June 22 2017 18:05 disformation wrote: so lets start again:
town: fefe chezitwo
if ppl scumread any of those two i would like to see reasons/cases
I have a red check on both of them
I don't know about you folks but I pretty much immediately ignored this. I assumed it was a troll or a joke, not a serious claim in any way. In fact, he doesn't claim they're both the same alignment, he claims they're both Red checks.
Now imagine FeFe and Chez are townies. If FeFe and Chez are both Green, and Mafia sees SL, who to them is just some townie, claim he has redchecks on them, why would they shoot him? Who cares, he's some weirdo doing weird things.
BUT THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENEd
MAFIA SHOT HIM.
Which means, when they saw SL say "i have redchecks on FeFe and Chez" they probably started freaking out because fefe and chez are actually mafia. Their Rb, Xat, is dead; so they can't just wait one more day for town to maybe lynch SL, cause then SL will die and leave us THREE checks (remember, they think he's a cop at this point). So they HAVE to shoot him right away even though he's like the top lynch target.
Mafia has no reason to rolecheck SL, he was considered suspicious and likely to get lynched. But, if FeFe and Chez ARE IN FACT MAFIA, then Mafia had a REALLY good reason to pay attention to this off-handed statement and freak out and shoot SL!
I think that SL crumbed so we'd know he got "same" on FeFe and Chez.
But I ALSO think that the way he was shot could only really happen if FeFe and Chez are Mafia and Mafia freaked the fuck out
this makes as much or more sense than the rolecop theory
now one of FeFe or Chez could still be town here, as an un-self-aware miller; and mafia think "ok, chez/fefe is one of us, but fefe/chez is a miller" and this still confirms, in their minds, that SL is a REGULAR COP with two red checks
On June 23 2017 08:20 Blazinghand wrote: OK SO THEORY. AS we know, SickLucker crumbed his N1 and N2 checks here, which was SAME on FEFE and Chezitwo. However, pay attention to how he wrote it:
On June 22 2017 19:19 sicklucker wrote:
On June 22 2017 18:05 disformation wrote: so lets start again:
town: fefe chezitwo
if ppl scumread any of those two i would like to see reasons/cases
I have a red check on both of them
I don't know about you folks but I pretty much immediately ignored this. I assumed it was a troll or a joke, not a serious claim in any way. In fact, he doesn't claim they're both the same alignment, he claims they're both Red checks.
Now imagine FeFe and Chez are townies. If FeFe and Chez are both Green, and Mafia sees SL, who to them is just some townie, claim he has redchecks on them, why would they shoot him? Who cares, he's some weirdo doing weird things.
BUT THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENEd
MAFIA SHOT HIM.
Which means, when they saw SL say "i have redchecks on FeFe and Chez" they probably started freaking out because fefe and chez are actually mafia. Their Rb, Xat, is dead; so they can't just wait one more day for town to maybe lynch SL, cause then SL will die and leave us THREE checks (remember, they think he's a cop at this point). So they HAVE to shoot him right away even though he's like the top lynch target.
Mafia has no reason to rolecheck SL, he was considered suspicious and likely to get lynched. But, if FeFe and Chez ARE IN FACT MAFIA, then Mafia had a REALLY good reason to pay attention to this off-handed statement and freak out and shoot SL!
I think that SL crumbed so we'd know he got "same" on FeFe and Chez.
But I ALSO think that the way he was shot could only really happen if FeFe and Chez are Mafia and Mafia freaked the fuck out
this makes as much or more sense than the rolecop theory
now one of FeFe or Chez could still be town here, as an un-self-aware miller; and mafia think "ok, chez/fefe is one of us, but fefe/chez is a miller" and this still confirms, in their minds, that SL is a REGULAR COP with two red checks
they couldn't afford to let him live.
Not only is this just factually wrong and mafia probably wouldn't be stupid enough to think that SL wouldn't claim with 2 redckecks it is also definitely NOT more likely than the rolecop theory.
hmm, do you really think so though, like remembe,r this means MAfia rolecopped SL during N1 or N2. And then, during Day 3, when it was a faceoff between SL, the guy they "know" is Parity cop, and Grack, the guy they think is just some guy, why does the Grack wagon get so much more support than the SL wagon? there were like TWO dudes on SL at the end, but at some point it was very close. I feel mafia would have pushed to get SL lynched right away.
on top of that, this innocuous "I have two redchecks" troll remark seems normal to town but to mafia has to be a HUGE red flag when those two redchecks are on two mafia right (remember, mafia didn't know he was parity cop, thought he was regular cop, in this hypothetical)
Doesn't this counter the point you're trying to make? If they knew he was parity cop, wouldn't they try to vote him out?
OMG READING COMPREHENSION
I AM POINTING OUT THAT
IN A WORLD IN WHICH MAFIA HAD A ROLE CHECK
THEY WOULD PUSH SICKLUCKER
SINCE THEY DIDN'T
THEY DIDN'T HAVE A ROLE CHECK
SO WHY DID THEY SHOOT HIM
ITS NOT CAUSE HE WAS TOWN LEADER
ITS CAUSE THEY GOT HIS ROLE SOME OTHER WAY
LIKE HIS OVERNIGHT CLAIM
THAT ONLY STUCK OUT IF YOU ARE MAFIA
I AM POINTING OUT THAT THE COUNTERFACTUAL OF ROLE CHECK DOESN'T MAKE SENSE
Same.
On June 23 2017 09:00 Blazinghand wrote: Here's like all of Palmar's post in the last week:
On June 16 2017 16:39 Palmar wrote: I clicked darthfoley's filter. I don't like it much, and I would expect him to be a relatively easy townread if he was town. I think he is a good candidate for being mafia.
On June 16 2017 20:26 Palmar wrote: I'm just playing single player mafia mostly. Occasionally clicking filters, ignoring the thread, throwing out some opinions.
Life is good.
I'll try to maybe make my statement posts a bit more detailed when I cba.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
On June 20 2017 22:40 Rels wrote: @BTDT we're not lynching Palmar 'cause he did nothing scummy and some other people did. Filter length is something to consider but is not an absolute measure.
Yeah, basically this. But we should not allow Palmar to keep this up either regardless of his alignment.
Surely the stern facial expression will make me snap out of it.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
So, are you claiming it is normal for marv to completely vanish from TL due to rolling mafia? Because if you are not you don't have a leg to stand on.
On June 20 2017 22:57 Palmar wrote: I voted for skynx. He sounds distinctly less towny than he did the last game i played with him. I'm not complaining that the content is different, he just sounds less sassy.
It's a weak vote atm, I'll probably read some more later.
On June 20 2017 22:51 beentheredonethat wrote: the "marv disappears when he's scum" shit is actually valid, I can confirm that from Generic I (I think. Might've been one of the other games I hosted). The scum qt in this game is full of "omg I rolled scum" shit.
Then again, I haven't seen him post here around tl so I don't know how valid it is
also this is one of the few points Palmar can make because he's been absent basically. So I'd treat this with care. chezitwo appeared townie to me
I have not read anything of Chezitwo's posts, it's very much just based on that. Which is why I don't particularly want to lynch him, it basically wouldn't be fair to the guy.
I'm kinda hoping the situation resolves itself through a vigi shot or something.
On June 20 2017 22:40 Rels wrote: @BTDT we're not lynching Palmar 'cause he did nothing scummy and some other people did. Filter length is something to consider but is not an absolute measure.
He did nothing townie, either. And a super bad reason to not lynch an obvious lurker. He managed to vote each cycle. He even comes in every now and then, throw accusations at people, doesn't follow up AND he freely admits to neither read nor care about this game.
I don't know why we don't lynch (or shoot) such a player.
To be fair, I freely admit to never reading any game I play.
But yes, been extra lazy this game. Just had stuff to do.
On June 16 2017 00:40 Palmar wrote: So I clicked two more filters.
beentheredonethat is strange. There's some weird stuff in his filter like gettin into an argument if he's carefree. But there's also some townie sounding, albeit not very useful stuff. He goes in the "could be either category"
AMG hasn't posted at all, lucky me that was an easy filter to read.
I still think voting sicklucker is a good idea and I'm gonna park my vote there. Btdt should probably sheep me as he thinks sicklucker's contributions are atrocious.
Hey, Palmar, we have a sicklucker train going. You care?
On June 16 2017 16:39 Palmar wrote: I clicked darthfoley's filter. I don't like it much, and I would expect him to be a relatively easy townread if he was town. I think he is a good candidate for being mafia.
Hey, Palmar, this guy flipped town.
On June 20 2017 06:43 Palmar wrote: Rels is evil!
I have no idea, I haven't read much lately.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
On June 16 2017 00:41 Palmar wrote: Btw, if we're killing inactive/modkill-territory people, we kill AMG, not marv.
Hey, Palmar, lynch into the AMG slot instead of the slot where you're suspecting scum!marv?
Ok the first two things are basically me bitching but the last one is valid and scummy
I actually think the first things are better, especially being wrong (mildly... I never voted him) on darthfoley.
The last part is completely irrelevant. I posted the first post on day 1 for very good reasons (marv is both a great player and a good friend of mine, so keeping him alive would always be optimal). However when it's clear marv isn't playing and is replaced by a smurf, I no longer have any personal attachments to the slot (ie, I really want to play with marv).
So cold calculation leads me to believe it is not unlikely, based on something completely out of his control, that Chezitwo is mafia. However, as I already said, I do not really want to lynch him for that without suspecting him specifically (and not the slot), because it's an asshole thing to do.
I didn't even know we had a train on sicklucker. Is there an actual case I can read somewhere?
I read a few more posts of skynx, I think I'll be unvoting him, he has a few decent posts.
On June 20 2017 22:40 Rels wrote: @BTDT we're not lynching Palmar 'cause he did nothing scummy and some other people did. Filter length is something to consider but is not an absolute measure.
Yeah, basically this. But we should not allow Palmar to keep this up either regardless of his alignment.
Surely the stern facial expression will make me snap out of it.
Apparently it did :D
On June 20 2017 22:46 Palmar wrote:
On June 20 2017 07:40 Chezitwo wrote:
On June 20 2017 06:43 Palmar wrote: Rels is evil!
I have no idea, I haven't read much lately.
I saw darthfoley thinks btdt is mafia, that is an interesting development as I've previously mentioned suspecting both of them. I also should catch up on what sicklucker is doing.
Chezitwo is probably mafia because marv not playing is like 99% because he rolled mafia. Sucks, but replacements are always more likely to be mafia, and in this case it's especially prevalent.
So, are you claiming it is normal for marv to completely vanish from TL due to rolling mafia? Because if you are not you don't have a leg to stand on.
Yes, that is exactly what I am claiming.
How am I supposed to believe that a guy like this:
On June 16 2017 07:40 Palmar wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:37 Koshi wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:36 Fecalfeast wrote: Shenannie onto marv?
😇I'm only half joking
nha. 0 posts is not his mafia style. He has some dignity and respect for the game.
He had, tbh.
He's the guy who just quit a game because he rolled mafia, as much as I like him (I love the guy, he's by far guy I've interacted most with outside of mafia that I've met here) he has been rather sketchy in his appearances lately. If anything his silence does point to him being mafia (or simply having forgotten about the game).
does not realize that marvs universal TL absence is obviously not connected to a mafia game he signed up for ages ago? Walk me through this. Do you actually believe marv would stop himself from posting on this forum because of this game? Not to mention that he stopped posting way before it started and he could know his alignment.
marv barely posts outside tl mafia at all, like his entire tl existence is basically tl mafia.
On June 20 2017 23:45 disformation wrote: yeah i think i'll make a decent case on sl later. basically: creates the annul wagon via "read his filter didnt like it" pushes really hard (uncharacteristic for sl) has a false/bad xata town lean/read says xata might be town after all after flip
aaaand:
On June 16 2017 07:54 Holyflare wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:51 Holyflare wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:49 sicklucker wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:47 Holyflare wrote:
On June 16 2017 07:45 Eversince wrote: This is going to make me look like garbage.
I haven't read anything since pg 35ish. Give me the the rough of what's happen between now and then for Xata, Annul, and SL.
I don't have time to fact check so my vote is entirely blind at this point.
sl came to the thread and town read xatalos because xatalos has different reads to most of the game (when in fact xatalos' reads are blending with the rest of the game
sl says i'm mafia for calling all the town leaders mafia and it's my mafia meta when 100% of other games he states my mafia meta is to push lurkers
sl is trying to force the wagon onto someone who is blatantly self-preserving and revealing his plan for all to see, who stubbornly refuses to change his reads despite everyone yelling at him mafia
sl is mafia
I said that because xata had a mafia read on ryan and everyone else town read him. get over it you lost save your buddy
xata doesn't have a mafia read on rayn, he said he can still be scum but doesn't actually say he scum reads him at all
Ruxxar and Fecalfeast are voting together once more. Both rather townread people. Why was everyone so super sure on Fecalfeast again? I think there were valid points but don't remember.
VayneAuthority ended up on Skynx D1 and is now up on the Grack wagon after popping in for a while. So D1 a non-committal vote and D3 joining the wagon in a strong fashion (I think joining a wagon as #5/#6 has more weight than #1/#2) which gives me worries. What are VA's reasons?
Like, people from the annul wagon aren't exactly cleared. We're focusing on Rels, Grack, ES, but left out Ruxxar for a lot of time (for which exact reasons?)
Hmm
Ruxxar, from what little I've read of him, kinda sounds like town, but it's not a strong read.
On June 22 2017 08:40 Palmar wrote: I forgot Vivax is bad. That's on me
Listing all Palmar's posts.
On June 26 2017 17:04 Blazinghand wrote: living players:
Palmar Rels Disfo VA BTDT Rayn Blaze FF Skynx RuXxar ES
Living claimers (do not lynch): VA who claims as the Vigilante who shot SL during N3 ES who claims as the Tracker who tracked SL to TW N1, Chezi N2, and Rels to nobody N3, and was RBed N4
Likely town: Disfo RuXXar Fecal ... much lower, Skynx
Potential Scums (in the order I'd lynch them): Palmar BTDT Rels Rayn
--
So some reasoning here. On the d1 Annul vs Xat wagon, the following 6 people were on Xat: Xatalos (6): DF, Koshi, Skynx, Disfo, annul, HF.
Everyone who has flipped has been green. Every one of these votes was potentially like "the vote that might make the difference and get Xat lynched D1" and I see no reason to believe that Disfo is scum. Skynx has been very low-activity recently, but I feel like it would have been pretty high risk to be on the Xat wagon here. even if scum had "slack" in the lynch. So I'm basically on board with the idea that the whole wagon was green.
The people who were on the Annul wagon: annul (7):sicklucker, ruXxar, Fecalfeast, Xatalos, Rels, Grackaroni, Eversince Non-voters and third-party-voters (any of whom could have potentially swung this vote): Neither (8): Palmar, Vivax, TW, VA, Damdred, Rayn, Blaze, Chez
So of our lynched scum, one was on annul, and one was third-party. This ALREADY tells us scum had some "slack" in the Annul lynch. TW could have come back and moved his vote from Marv to annul. So scum was already not going "all out" on annul. If they weren't voting Xat, the place for them to be are the "neither" voters. People who didn't vote, or people who voted for an unrelated candidate (as TW did). If we're talking a 4-scum game, I'd guess 2 of them were on annul to push him over, and hte other two either were afk or hid their votes in the assortment of useless wagons.
I think there's a solid chance that someone else on the annul wagon is scum. I think Ruxxar has generally been really engaged all game; he's likely town. ES has claimed, and we don't yet have any reason to doubt it. Fecalfeast is part of the cohort (along with disfo, ruxxar, and chezi) that I spoke with after the dawn of Day 4. Remember, during a period of time, SL had flipped and we were trying to reason things out. Scum, we can now reasonably infer, had shot Chez and noticed it failed, and on top of that, that SL who they did not shoot has flipped. Scum doesn't know what happened, what prots if any went on, who shot whom, etc. This was exciting and interesting news for town, and confusing news for scum, what happened with the D1 flip. After the VA claim, scum had a lot more information to work on and probably came out of the woodwork, and after the ES claim, they were safe to operate and make statements with surety about what checks they were opearing against, and to bus/not bus etc. I think scum had every motivation in the world to NOT be posting right after that flip. It would be very risky. So the people who dove into convo with me, FF, Disfo, and Ruxxar, are highly unlikely to be scum in my view.
So leaving out people on the xat wagon, people who claimed, and people who reacted in a townie way to the start-of-D4 flip (and in a way that would be VERY costly potentially as scum), this leaves Palm, Rels, BTDT, and Rayn. Among them, are at least 2 scum.
I think we can all agree that Palm's play has left something to be desired. Rels, well, you may not agree with me on him, but he still isn't exonnerated by these thoughts. BTDT has gotten suspicion and played weird all game. I've liked rayn, but I always like rayn, and he (like palmar) was a "neither" vote during D1.
With 11 alive, we can consider the 2-mafia and the 3-mafia situation.
2-mafia situation: Today, 9-2. If we ML, tomorrow is 7-2 If we ML again, next day is 5-2 If we ML again, day after is 3-2 LYLO
3-mafia situation: today, 8-3 If we ML, tomorrow is 6-3 If we ML again, the next day is 4-3 LYLO
The latter situation seems more likely given that we seem to have 5 blues. However, if we are hunting for 3 mafia in a pool of 4, we can afford a mislynch. If we take down Palm, BTDT, Rels, Rayn, we win. Heck, this is true in a 9-2 situation also. In both situations we have plenty of ML's worth of cushion. Anyways, if people disagree with me please let me know and it's of course better to discuss things than to autolynch and lose momentum. But I think we baaasically have this wrapped up. And with a 5th blue in the shadows, we have even more degrees of freedom here.
Setup analysis to get a POE list. Also see my post just above.
On July 03 2017 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: What i meant is:
N1: Holyflare Koshi
Who in this game (assuming mafia) can say those two people are not reasonable kills?
N2: darthfoley - unlynchable Vivax ????????
N3: Chezitwo - basically unlynchable
N4: Eversince - claimed tracker
N5: disforamtion - basically unlynchable
I don't really see any "master plan" here. I would probably make all those kills myself except for Vivax ( i think i would shoot Palmar if i was mafia -- not necessarily N2 but at some point because Palmar would totally give me a headache alive). It is just killing people who are confirmed blue or people who you can't lynch, ever. There is nothing more to it.
Now why are you trying to make this some plan that no other mafia team can do? It doesn't make any sense to me.
Let's assume you are town. Who would you have killed throughout the game?
Dunno, it depends on who the other scum are. If you're not, definitely you over all these people. Never Vivax, especially N2 when he is nice to me + wants to pressure SL like I do. Never Chezitwo over a tracker that I cannot block, when Chezitwo is nice to me. Never disfo over you or VA.
On July 03 2017 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: What i meant is:
N1: Holyflare Koshi
Who in this game (assuming mafia) can say those two people are not reasonable kills?
N2: darthfoley - unlynchable Vivax ????????
N3: Chezitwo - basically unlynchable
N4: Eversince - claimed tracker
N5: disforamtion - basically unlynchable
I don't really see any "master plan" here. I would probably make all those kills myself except for Vivax ( i think i would shoot Palmar if i was mafia -- not necessarily N2 but at some point because Palmar would totally give me a headache alive). It is just killing people who are confirmed blue or people who you can't lynch, ever. There is nothing more to it.
Now why are you trying to make this some plan that no other mafia team can do? It doesn't make any sense to me.
Let's assume you are town. Who would you have killed throughout the game?
Dunno, it depends on who the other scum are. If you're not, definitely you over all these people. Never Vivax, especially N2 when he is nice to me + wants to pressure SL like I do. Never Chezitwo over a tracker that I cannot block, when Chezitwo is nice to me. Never disfo over you or VA.
Can you show me a game where you have NK'd me?
How did you know Eversince is a tracker on N3?
nope ? Probably not. But I don't think I ever met you as scum since my first two games ? Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure ES had claimed when Chekita died.
lol at people still using annul's vote as a basis for a scumread. Apart from very specific people, it means NOTHING. It's HARD as scum to defend your teammate knowing that you will be attacked for that. Only people like SL would do it all the time, 'cause that's how he plays. Maybe that's how you would play too VA, but you can't apply it to everyone.
And FTR there are also ruxxar and FF alive on it so it doesn't even make sense.
On June 24 2017 00:04 Eversince wrote: Ok I can't make sense of SL's crumbs/reads.
FF/Chez town is general consensus. That's fine and all, I already read both of them town anyway. Problem that I'm having here is SL's read on TW was 100% confirmed town. But SL didn't check FF/Chez. SL visited TW N1, Chez N2. SL also was very sure Marv's slot is mafia. Never gave this any other chance. Which is why if he got a return of different TW is the town and Chez is the scum. I don't know why he implied FF got included in that at all. Not sure why he would lie about his checks as town. And if TW/Chez came back as same I have a hard time putting TW as town.
I visited Rels N3. He was a total shut in.
Before it gets mentioned, I obviously have no reason to claim right now as mafia. But town needs the info because everyone seems to be having just about as much trouble as I am. I'm obviously not much use right now other than being lynch bait on everyone's mind. So let's kill two birds with one stone.
Chez gets killed.
On June 26 2017 08:01 Half the Sky wrote:
Day 5
"Hi, I'd like to speak with Chez. Concerning upping our shipment."
"I'm sorry ma'am, but I thought he told you," responded the voice on the other end of the phone. "You'll need to talk with his daughter Dana now. Chez is retiring and handing off control of the distillery to his daughter."
"Well then...."
Chezitwo, the distillery owner (Veteran), had retired.
Day 5 has begun.
Day 5 ends in 48 hours at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) At that time, the player with the most votes gets lynched. The voting thread is located here. Countdown:
On July 04 2017 00:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: you are just playing dumb arent you?
nope. If I didn't understand it, then you obviously didn't say it clearly enough. VA is saying it's super weird that ES (claimed tracker) has been shot over Chez. You answer :
"She tracked Rels on N3 when you shot SL and mafia shot Chezitwo the first time if i remember correctly. N4 Chezitwo got shot again. Eversince never claimed who she tracked before getting shot on N5."
I thought you were explaining the fact that Chez got shot over ES by saying ES didn't claim yet N4. But apparently you're not saying that. So what are you saying ? Why didn't ES die N4 ?
On June 23 2017 08:22 Fecalfeast wrote: Or, bh, we can assume mafia knows the setup and takes that as a claim but hey yeah let's lynch into the two people likely to be town.
We already had a miller flip as well
why would "I have red checks on these guys" be anything but a cop claim, if as mafia, you see that the RED CHECKS ARE ON TWO OF YOUR RED GUYS
man why am I even arguing with you, you're mafia!
Or you see that post, knowing chez and i are towns and that there is a parity cop and think HMm.. maybe sl has a same check on those 2 townies
You'reso scum wowow
oh yeah. Such stupid posts from BH, when he was "speculating" that Chez and FF are scum together. That never, ever, ever made sense.
On July 04 2017 00:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am saying that. VA was not saying that. You are saying it is somehow weird Chez got shot (again) over claimed tracker.
VA was saying that I think ? I am indeed saying that. If you're also saying that, then we all agree
On July 04 2017 00:17 VayneAuthority wrote: oh right I completely forgot about that. Whoever the scum team is willingly let the tracker get another check and killed chezitwo over them, what the fuck lol.
He is saying exactly that:
On July 04 2017 00:46 Rels wrote: VA is saying it's super weird that ES (claimed tracker) has been shot over Chez.
FF's early game is mostly "lynch ruxxar" posts with no real intents behind them. Doesn't make him scum, I know he's low impact. I don't understand why he suddenly townreads ruxxar at some point though.
Wow the Palmar sequence doesn't make sense.
FF is scumreading Palmar only for inactivity. Seems to be scumreading BTDT too though.
On June 26 2017 19:14 Palmar wrote: Holy shit does beentheredonethat's filter look bad when considering Xatalos.
On June 14 2017 20:30 beentheredonethat wrote: Xata you're not saying anything in your posts, you're just commenting on things and speculating about 3rd party
that's superbad
On June 14 2017 21:15 beentheredonethat wrote: Xata disappeared?
Two random comments with no meat on them and no real attempt to lynch the guy he's calling superbad and disappearing. Instead, when df offers a wagon on Xatalos, it's instead met with (weak) resistance:
On June 14 2017 22:41 beentheredonethat wrote:
On June 14 2017 22:40 darthfoley wrote:
On June 14 2017 22:14 beentheredonethat wrote:
On June 14 2017 21:28 Koshi wrote: Let me do this: ##vote btdt - Focused on a very small part of this thread. - Reads seem more opportunistic than real. - Very strong and closed in his language/thoughts. Not carefree and open.
I can explain it with many words but I am going to keep it at this for the time being.
so I
a) comment intensely on koshi/hf/you b) scumread you, not following the 3p thing (alhtough a vote is a vote of course) c) call out annul d) poke xata
* and I'm opportunistic? Opportinistic would be to vote rayn * a small part of this thread? the major part of this thread.
how am I not carefree? I think I'm super carefree lol
Let's vote Xata together, right now. You and I. Forever.
While I favour the general idea, can you please state your reasons?
Read the entire quote that follows. On what level are btdt's contributions helpful or insightful at all.
On June 14 2017 22:51 beentheredonethat wrote:
On June 14 2017 22:47 annul wrote:
On June 14 2017 22:46 Holyflare wrote:
On June 14 2017 22:45 beentheredonethat wrote:
On June 14 2017 22:42 darthfoley wrote:
On June 14 2017 22:28 ruXxar wrote:
On June 14 2017 18:21 sicklucker wrote: alright boys im hard claiming cop with a red check on eversince.
This makes it real simple. Lynch eversince. If green, lynch sicklucker.
Guaranteed 1 scum down.
How is this an intelligent plan at all?
#3 to say that (I think, maybe more)
darth comes on the town pile.
If he's the third person to say it why is he town??
TIL you can only have one person make a claim and one other person agree with the claim before any other people become suspect
So passive aggressive
but for real, my impression is that darth is catching up and quoting and posting where he deems it appropriate. super gut feeling but I think it's town. not only does he think the same about ruxxar as I do, he also doesn't like Xata apparently and I don't like Xata, too
And through it all, btdt sits on Koshi, despite thinking koshi looks better and Xata worse:
On June 15 2017 17:49 beentheredonethat wrote: Good morning. It's a bank holiday today in Germany and I am spending it with my GF on a wandering tour. I'll probably be in front of a computer in the evening if at all.
I skimmed everything besides the last two pages. Koshi looks better, Xata worse. Ruxxar weird. My mind screamed TOWN when I read rayns big post but I didn't like that he disappeared right after. Hf still town.
Disfo not town anymore because rayn made me paranoid.
Thats kind of where im at.
btdt ended the day as a single random vote on Koshi instead of trying to kill his scumread. Then he bitched about it in the night:
On June 16 2017 14:59 beentheredonethat wrote: bad thing: Koshi lynch averted bad thing #2: annul being lynched over xata good thing: xata being 2nd wagon
I think a scum!xata will give us lots of indication and I highly suggest xata to be shot at night.
Maybe should have done something about that?
I think there is about 100% chance btdt is mafia
##Vote beentheredonethat
I'm not done with his filter, but this day 1 looks very much terrible. I was getting paranoid that I was being to lenient because like the first 4 people I read actually look like townies, but this guy doesn't look like a townie at all on first glance.
Please give me reasons why I should townread him if anyone has any. To me this is almost a good enough case on it's own.
I actually read this now. One nitpick, why does btdt call for a shot on xata if he's on xatas team?
I totally agree with the logic here though and may sheep you instead now.
But somehow sheep disfo on Palmar:
On June 27 2017 23:31 Fecalfeast wrote: Sheeping disfo onto palmar.
I don't understand. That doesn't make sense. Palmar stops being inactive (so FF only reason to scumread him goes away), his main contribution is a case FF agrees with; but he votes him nonetheless.
On July 04 2017 01:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: so you just assumed that a 22 player game does not have a town protective role. okay, right.
well I know there is no town prot role now. But yeah that might be why Chez got shot a second time over ES who just claimed; 'cause scum thought she was going to be protected if there was a doc.
On July 04 2017 01:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: so you just assumed that a 22 player game does not have a town protective role. okay, right.
well I know there is no town prot role now. But yeah that might be why Chez got shot a second time over ES who just claimed; 'cause scum thought she was going to be protected if there was a doc.
that just happened now come to your mind? like that chez might have tmi because he replaced marv?
well yeah. I know now that there is no doc, but I didn't think about the fact that we didn't know there was no doc when Chez got killed.
On July 03 2017 05:46 Fecalfeast wrote: The way I see it it's probably skynx from an effort put into scumhunting perspective. I'm also wary of this rels lynch solely based on how you and skynx are both setting me up for next day making me think the mafia knows this will be a mislynch and then I am the game winning ezpz mislynch.
However I am still scumreadig rels and to switch for paranoias sake seems silly.
So probably skynx but I've hardly been scumhunting so take that with a grain of salt
then there is it that I've already talked about. It makes no sense. Skynx is trying to find a relation between me and FF, even says so quite clearly here:
On July 02 2017 06:58 disformation wrote: first bunch of quotes: fefe say he might be willing to sheep palmar's case on btdt is also fine with voting rels sheeps me on palmar then gets mad cold feet at eod but does nothing
despite being willing to vote rels earlier..
This checks out incredibly with what happened on D1.
he's first on ruxxar then swtiches on annul, along with ruxxar admits having no opinion on Xata Claims xata's filter is bad but doesn't makes him scum Xata votes annul, he's now having cold feet voting together with sl, ruxxar, xata, grack does nothing. (I can provide quotes if needed)
On svt trains eod, he just seems to follow the same pattern. Obviously this is all true if rels is scum.
But FF is arguing that Skynx is preparing his ML when I flip town.
On July 05 2017 03:47 ruXxar wrote: What 100% lost this game from my pov was the belief that there HAD to be mafia on annul. That train on annul was beyond disgusting.
This was always a bad thought to base the view of the game on.
On July 05 2017 03:47 ruXxar wrote: Rels
What killed it for me was your activity. If you just had been more active day 1 and 2 I think this game would have been completely different. I'm really sad about that .
Inactivity is NAI for some people, myself included. A simple look in the database would have confirmed that.
EPT
fuck you
:o :o :o <3 also is it daytiem yet 
