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On January 14 2017 09:37 Calix wrote:
Also I really hate night kill analysis. I'm the sort of person who prefers focusing on what you can see in the thread so when people waste time with NKA, it annoys me. I think the concept of trying to figure out why scum shot someone when they're still a team and you do not know their motivations for sure is stupid. It's not as bad when one scummer's left though.
fair enough. it can be very very wifom.
still you have access to reads of a confirmed town now. shouldnt hurt to take a peek. (wish i would do this more often myself)
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On January 14 2017 09:37 kitaman27 wrote:
As a side note, having ME as someone's name got really confusing at times.There were a bunch of posts that I would read out of context then wonder why someone would be calling themselves mafia. XD
yeah I changed me to myself a few times if I recall correctly.
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I'm sorry I got in the shit fight. I think it got a little misunderstood because I responded poorly.
If I thought that there was some quote I could pull out to make it clear that Vivax was town I would have. I just viewed his filter as townie in general and most people were viewing it differently. I tried to explain without quotes at some points during the argument.
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One more town critique that I jotted down in the mafia QT - this is more presentation than anything:
That's something I am going to bring up in postgame.
You may be scum but honestly pages 56 and 57 are a disaster. Michael and Silverwolf...I had to re-read their posts several times and ME, I really struggled. Holy shit.
People are not going to read poorly formatted posts. They need to learn to use spoilers.
Michael please use line breaks and spoiler formatting next time.
Use bold underline and bullet points and use a TLDR to sum up a case.
Please.
I learnt that the hard way.
There were a few posts in that debate that literally hurt my eyes to read. A lot of people in this forum play on mobile so if they are trying to read the thread on mobile, they might almost certainly miss your points.
Use BBCode's bold, underline, spoiler, line break, strikethrough functions, etc to make your posts sing, to spoiler certain quotes since - let's face it - not everyone wants to read it or rather, not everyone wants to read massive walls of texts.
Walls of texts take focus off your main point you are trying to convey. Spoilers will help with readability.
Some people here (esp in the non-newbie games) prefer just simple sentences as to why someone is mafia and others want the support. So I usually try and spoiler quotes if you want to use that or a large case to support and pull together why someone is mafia.
Long wall of texts without a summary statement (or TLDR) are posts that a lot of town may not read just because the format of the post is not optimal. This will be truer in a higher activity game.
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On January 14 2017 09:40 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2017 09:37 Calix wrote:
Also I really hate night kill analysis. I'm the sort of person who prefers focusing on what you can see in the thread so when people waste time with NKA, it annoys me. I think the concept of trying to figure out why scum shot someone when they're still a team and you do not know their motivations for sure is stupid. It's not as bad when one scummer's left though. fair enough. it can be very very wifom. still you have access to reads of a confirmed town now. shouldnt hurt to take a peek. (wish i would do this more often myself)
In my opinion, alignments can be determined solely by post analysis and everything else is WIFOM that scum can use to frame townies or "confirm" themselves. People who rely on that as a crutch are admitting that they are so bad at reading players that they cannot use the words/ actions that the player ACTUALLY took to determine their alignment.
I think I would have been more pissed off as town at how much time was spent on discussing the night kill...
It's completely unnecessary.
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On January 14 2017 09:37 Calix wrote:
Also I really hate night kill analysis. I'm the sort of person who prefers focusing on what you can see in the thread so when people waste time with NKA, it annoys me. I think the concept of trying to figure out why scum shot someone when they're still a team and you do not know their motivations for sure is stupid. It's not as bad when one scummer's left though.
i disagree, i find it to be the most viable. especially when one kills a non-confirmed pr. That leads to basicly "well the perosn was onto something"
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On January 14 2017 09:44 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2017 09:40 disformation wrote:On January 14 2017 09:37 Calix wrote:
Also I really hate night kill analysis. I'm the sort of person who prefers focusing on what you can see in the thread so when people waste time with NKA, it annoys me. I think the concept of trying to figure out why scum shot someone when they're still a team and you do not know their motivations for sure is stupid. It's not as bad when one scummer's left though. fair enough. it can be very very wifom. still you have access to reads of a confirmed town now. shouldnt hurt to take a peek. (wish i would do this more often myself) In my opinion, alignments can be determined solely by post analysis and everything else is WIFOM that scum can use to frame townies or "confirm" themselves. People who rely on that as a crutch are admitting that they are so bad at reading players that they cannot use the words/ actions that the player ACTUALLY took to determine their alignment. I think I would have been more pissed off as town at how much time was spent on discussing the night kill... It's completely unnecessary.
Again, disagree, if you are trying to limit all the tools you can uyse (no matter how wifomy) you are also limting your scpoe of views. It then can lead to tunnel bias and thinking everything said is scum.
One thing silverwolf taught me early on was to look at who died. theres alwasya motive and it could be anything from "they are pr" to "they have accurate reads"
SW had died in many games early on cus she was right, many times town would then use her reads to lynch the remaining scums. so i find a dead townies read>own reads
if your not being killed over someon else, they are doign something you are not
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Yeah I agree with ika. nk aren't random.
Proven this game. Her last scumteam had 2 mafia that werent even considered with darthfoley and Calix. So she died, town didn't care and lynched Boston. ez.
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That's not why we shot SW though.
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For those new to the site, I would say given site meta, 90% of the time, WIFOM analysis (or NKA) holds true. You have a few people on this site who will NK to give the least amount of information or will deliberately wifom the NKs in a way that benefits the agenda (and I've seen it work before), but the vast majority of the time here it's because they almost always were certainly on the right track if not universally townread.
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On January 14 2017 09:53 Calix wrote:
That's not why we shot SW though.
does not change nor refute the point at hand
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I almost always get shot if I'm town. For whatever reason, scum just likes to kill me.
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On January 14 2017 09:53 Calix wrote:
That's not why we shot SW though.
lol. I can't believe that.
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On January 14 2017 09:56 Koshi wrote:lol. I can't believe that.
It's pretty simple, my dear. Shoot the people you can't discredit in MYLO.
Also had the nice benefit of weakening ika's standing in the town.
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On January 14 2017 09:58 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2017 09:56 Koshi wrote:On January 14 2017 09:53 Calix wrote:
That's not why we shot SW though. lol. I can't believe that. It's pretty simple, my dear. Shoot the people you can't discredit in MYLO. Also had the nice benefit of weakening ika's standing in the town.
Oh sure. it was way more likely you would discredit the fucking confirmed blue vig...
Come on.
Maybe it wasn't your main reason or second reason or even maybe third. But there is always a reason and that is what ika is pointing out. nk aren't random.
And there are enough games in which some guy accidentally posts the entire scumteam somewhere during the day, changes his mind but still gets shot over more influential people.
Palmar is a pretty good mafia player and his tactic literally is: 'You scumread me? I shoot you". And it works cuz nobody is left to lynch him.
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On January 14 2017 09:58 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2017 09:56 Koshi wrote:On January 14 2017 09:53 Calix wrote:
That's not why we shot SW though. lol. I can't believe that. It's pretty simple, my dear. Shoot the people you can't discredit in MYLO. Also had the nice benefit of weakening ika's standing in the town.
funny enough, if it is to happen again when we are both town. it would basicly mean we the other is town. the only time we have ever killed one another is when we are fliped scum or being suspected. she has gotten me lycnhed only to die right after and i will die the moment i suspect her to be scum when she is.
still want a scum game with her
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On January 14 2017 09:44 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2017 09:40 disformation wrote:On January 14 2017 09:37 Calix wrote:
Also I really hate night kill analysis. I'm the sort of person who prefers focusing on what you can see in the thread so when people waste time with NKA, it annoys me. I think the concept of trying to figure out why scum shot someone when they're still a team and you do not know their motivations for sure is stupid. It's not as bad when one scummer's left though. fair enough. it can be very very wifom. still you have access to reads of a confirmed town now. shouldnt hurt to take a peek. (wish i would do this more often myself) In my opinion, alignments can be determined solely by post analysis and everything else is WIFOM that scum can use to frame townies or "confirm" themselves. People who rely on that as a crutch are admitting that they are so bad at reading players that they cannot use the words/ actions that the player ACTUALLY took to determine their alignment. I think I would have been more pissed off as town at how much time was spent on discussing the night kill... It's completely unnecessary.
I never said to rely on NKA alone.
That is indeed very bad.
But it is a tool that can help or add to building a case. Some ppl are pretty hard to catch solely with post analysis. Esp. in a disharmonic town.
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On January 14 2017 10:00 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2017 09:58 Calix wrote:On January 14 2017 09:56 Koshi wrote:On January 14 2017 09:53 Calix wrote:
That's not why we shot SW though. lol. I can't believe that. It's pretty simple, my dear. Shoot the people you can't discredit in MYLO. Also had the nice benefit of weakening ika's standing in the town. Oh sure. it was way more likely you would discredit the fucking confirmed blue vig... Come on. Maybe it wasn't your main reason or second reason or even maybe third. But there is always a reason and that is what ika is pointing out. nk aren't random. And there are enough games in which some guy accidentally posts the entire scumteam somewhere during the day, changes his mind but still gets shot over more influential people. Palmar is a pretty good mafia player and his tactic literally is: 'You scumread me? I shoot you". And it works cuz nobody is left to lynch him.
Yeah we were gonna shoot kmatt N3 but then the modkill happened and shooting the active credible player > lurky sheep town was way better.
You're not entirely wrong since that was why we shot Vivax N1 even though few people took him seriously.
I have some questions. Did you scum-read me during the game? If so, what gave me away? Would love some advice there from the One and Only Koshi 
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llllllllllllllllooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll Mage.
From Obs QT /m171
/m169 if df/calix/squishy actually are the scum team, town should just concede. and I should probably quit TL for that matter.
Please don't leave us though. Even though you nuked me twice from the observer QT. 
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On January 14 2017 10:02 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2017 09:44 Calix wrote:On January 14 2017 09:40 disformation wrote:On January 14 2017 09:37 Calix wrote:
Also I really hate night kill analysis. I'm the sort of person who prefers focusing on what you can see in the thread so when people waste time with NKA, it annoys me. I think the concept of trying to figure out why scum shot someone when they're still a team and you do not know their motivations for sure is stupid. It's not as bad when one scummer's left though. fair enough. it can be very very wifom. still you have access to reads of a confirmed town now. shouldnt hurt to take a peek. (wish i would do this more often myself) In my opinion, alignments can be determined solely by post analysis and everything else is WIFOM that scum can use to frame townies or "confirm" themselves. People who rely on that as a crutch are admitting that they are so bad at reading players that they cannot use the words/ actions that the player ACTUALLY took to determine their alignment. I think I would have been more pissed off as town at how much time was spent on discussing the night kill... It's completely unnecessary. I never said to rely on NKA alone. That is indeed very bad. But it is a tool that can help or add to building a case. Some ppl are pretty hard to catch solely with post analysis. Esp. in a disharmonic town.
"pretty hard to catch"
That's where the fun is.
I'm not expecting people to agree with me since it's so ingrained in site meta/s but don't expect me to start using it in my analysis. I'm basically just posting this shit to quote in future games if anyone calls me out for saying "NKA sucks and you suck for using it" 
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EPT
