EPTOn January 14 2017 06:31 Onegu wrote:
Im having second thoughts on Reps being scum... Hrmmm.... I have a headache I am lying down.
Im having second thoughts on Reps being scum... Hrmmm.... I have a headache I am lying down.
Explain?
Newbie Student Mafia XXV - Page 78
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
Explain? | ||
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
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Calix
3379 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
![[image loading]](http://nationwide-appraisals.com/wp-content/uploads/Friday13th2.jpg) End Game B0stonSC the Vanilla Townie has been lynched. Kmatt the Vigilante has been endgamed. ika42 the Vanilla Townie has been endgamed. damdred the Vanilla Townie has been endgamed. Onegu the Vanilla Townie has been endgamed. Calix the Mafia Godfather has survived. reps)squishy the Mafia Roleblocker has survived. darthfoley the Mafia Goon has survived. FLAWLESS MAFIA VICTORY Congrats to the mafia team! Thanks for playing everyone. Thanks to the LS, HTS, Koshi, and Hapa for doing an awesome job with coaching. I'd suggest reading through some of the coaching QTs and the mafia QT because there is some real good advice. Also, thanks to cakepie for being a great co-host. Nice job by disfo for being the first to correctly guess the mafia team in the obs! Hosting Spreadsheet Mafia Quicktopic Obs Quicktopic HTS/squishy Coaching QT Kmatt/LS Coaching QT ME/Hapa Coaching QT ika/Hapa Coaching QT SW/Koshi Coaching QT B0ston/Koshi Coaching QT Post Game There were obviously some questionable plays this game, but instead of ganging up on a few player to assign blame, I think we should focus on understanding what went wrong and learn how to avoid making the same mistakes in the future. These things tend to snowball out of control sometimes. You have a couple of interactions that cause a mislynch on day one and two, then players start to get frustrated to the point where they either can't control their emotions or they become demoralized by the results and activity starts to suffer. Despite some of the mistakes that town made, the mafia team certainly deserves credit for their win so I'll start there. They did a nice job singling out the lynch targets on day one and day three and played a style that made sure the spotlight never focused on one another. Calix and darthfoley was able to focus discussion in the right direction and squishy held his own as a new player. Vivax was one of the bigger threats and SW was unlikely to get lynched at any point so the night shots were solid. All three were able to remain active at points of the game where there wasn't necessarily an objective to push, which made them look town and set them up nicely for late game. The main thing to be careful of would be the way you interact with each other. Some of the people in the obs qt were able to piece things together based on relational analysis. For instance, try to avoid posts like this: On January 12 2017 09:21 reps)squishy wrote: Anyway although I think DF is scummy, Onegu is my main read. ##Vote: Onegu A lot of experienced players will jump on this type of post since you're essentially trying to share suspicion of two players and then show a preference for one over the other without a ton of explanation. calix post is pretty much: nah all his bad posts are totally nai cause he is totally new. lets lynch the other totally new guy! =D disfo made a pretty solid point here when Calix made a post defending squishing and attacking ME. If one of the three of you were to get vig'd or lynched, the other two would be in a bit of trouble. That's always going to happen to some degree, but you want to make sure that the damage by association is limited. You should always have a plan for late game if town started to pile on someone like squishy and you aren't able to take any credit for the scum lynch. However, in a smaller game like this were you only need a few mislynches to win it worked out great. squishy, I think you played best when you were interacting with the thread and sharing opinions. There were a few times where you seemed a bit disconnected and would suddenly post something that didn't quite fit in with the discussion that was going on. Don't worry about defending yourself too much. Sometimes you can ignore a case that is posted against you and it won't pick up much momentum. If you respond to the case, then it can trigger the accusing player to follow up on the post and can attract unwanted attention to you. On January 08 2017 06:55 reps)squishy wrote: I have found Grack suspicious in the past. Now he claims doctor. Then BTDT claims doctor as well. I do not think both of them are town. I do not like the disorder Grack has created in past. I believe it was a scummy move to create confusion and prevent progress. I have to go work in a few minutes so I am firmly going to vote for Grack. ##Unvote ##Vote Grackaroni Also, be careful not to over-explain something if it doesn't require explanation. At this point Grack is almost universally agreed to be mafia, has been counter-claimed as the doctor, and has like 9 votes against him already. Your vote here is completely irrelevant so you don't need to justify what everyone is already is thinking. Vivax immediately nailed you for this post in the thread, but the chaos that was going on helped you blend in. Now on to the town side of things. Day one wasn't too terrible activity-wise, but things started to go downhill once Grack got himself in trouble. I'm sure you get why you were lynched, but you have to remember that winning an argument isn't worth it if it gets you killed off. You made your point about the "burden of proof", but when that point takes up 50% of your filter, it just looks like a bunch of irrelevant nonsense to everyone else. As the main power role this game, you don't want to put yourself in that position. Some point would argue that you should never claim doctor before a lynch since you become neutralized by the roleblocker even if you live. I don't mind it as much in a setup where certain role claims can be verified by town. That brings me to my next point. There are four possible setups: A) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Doctor B) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Veteran C) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Doctor D) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Veteran That means that doctor is not a "safe" fake claim in this game. This means that mafia can't fake claim the role, without at least one other player being aware they are lying. In setup A and C the actual doctor knows the claim is fake. In setup B and D, the veteran knows that a doctor cannot exist. If a fake claim occurs, it's that player's responsibility to decide whether or not a counter-claim should occur. Most players will argue that a 1 for 1 trade is worth it, but there are some situations where you may want to sit on it day one and gather information from the knowledge that a player is mafia. Either way, there isn't much reason for beentheredonethat to step in. I understand that you strongly felt that Grack was mafia and wanted to protect the actual doctor, but the risk simply isn't worth the reward. If Grack is mafia, then he is a dead man walking anyways based on the explanation above. There will always be one player who knows he is mafia. Even if that one player is shot, their flip will reveal Grack is mafia. If the game reaches lylo and Grack is still alive, it's not like he is going to magically slip by. This setup doesn't use a kp formula that is based on the number of mafia alive, so it's not imperative to lynch him immediately. If the power role decides not to counter-claim him, then you need to respect his decision and assume Grack is town. I don't really fault town for deciding to lynch beentheredonethat on day two. I probably would have done the same in your position. You can make the argument that he must be town because no mafia would be crazy enough to do something like that, but that's not totally true because we've seen it in the past. The decision from Kmatt for how you use the vig shot is a tough one. On one hand, flipping btdt during the night would essentially reset the game and allow town to move forward without wasting another 48 hours. On the other hand, it's tempting to target an under the radar player that you think might be mafia, but is unlikely to get lynched during the next day or two. If you're successful, you can blow the game wide open. For those who haven't read the coaching QT, Kmatt seemed like he was planing to shoot Calix, but decided to switch to Vivax towards the end of the night. If he stuck with his first choice, that would have been huge. Unless you have a really strong feeling that btdt is town or that your alternate target is mafia, I think shooting btdt is usually your best bet. Activity tends to take a huge hit during days where the lynch is already decided and mafia can blend in without being under any pressure. Once you claimed vig, I would have liked to see you take a stronger leadership role. You are basically confirmed town by day two, but mafia didn't see you as much of a threat. That is evidenced by their decision to leave you alive night two. Damdred tried to reach out to you on day three to attempt to figure things out, but you kind of dismissed him. There was a bit of discussion that went on during day two regarding who else might be mafia, but not as much as I would have liked to see. That would have been a good time to put pressure on people like squishy and b0ston to give you more insight into their alignments. It can be tough to pressure a player when they know they aren't likely to get lynched that cycle, but asking direct questions and following up if they don't respond tends to help. Mylo was a bit disappointing today since there was only one player that was ever up for serious consideration. Part of this has to do with B0stonSC's inactivity, but typically you want more discussion here. It was correctly mentioned in the thread that mafia was either bussing or you were about to mislynch a player. It can be tough to determine which is correct, but it should raise some red flags. B0ston, I know you ran into some time issues at the end, but not posting during the last cycle of the game really hurt town's chances. I think you need to focus on getting in the thread and sharing your opinion whenever possible. If you can't keep up with the entire thread, focus on a couple player's that seem the most suspicious. For ika and SW, I think you both did a good job at getting discussion rolling and establishing your towniness. I would have been surprised if either of you were lynched during the first 3-4 cycles. Your reads were both a bit hit or miss, but given the circumstances that is understandable. In the thread, it was easily noticeable that you two played as a pair. This would sometimes rub players the wrong way if you gang up on someone together or defend each other from any attacks. I think you need to be a bit more aware when your interactions with each other frustrate other players. I wouldn't blame you for ME's meltdown, but I think it's just something to keep in mind. Nobody likes to go into a game by themselves and feel like they are being unfairly teamed up against. It's fine if you decide to treat each other as confirmed town if you're familiar with each other's play styles, but it's going to become suspicious, or even annoying if you aren't able adequately explain what makes your partner so likely to be town. However, when you're able to bounce ideas off each other and influence the other players with your thread presence it makes for a strong duo. As one of you suggested in the coach's quicktopic, you two seem like you would be well suited for playing together as a hydra in the future. Not every host will allow it, but it doesn't hurt to ask ahead of time if that's something you would be interested in. ME you need to understand that mafia can be an emotional game. Every game you're going to come across at least one player that makes you angry. You need to be able to deal with the frustration without letting it overwhelm you. Keep in mind that when you ask for a modkill, you're attempting to ruin the game for the players and the hosts who have put a lot of work into this. By asking for a flip, you sent town straight into mylo on day three, when town should have had an extra lynch to work with. I get that there were some things that you disagreed with, but it's selfish to react like that. Even if you were to PM me and request a replacement, at least you wouldn't have tried to ruin the game for everyone else. damdred you did a decent job salvaging KSC's inactive slot. You were put into a tough spot with the mislynches on the first two days so I thank you for stepping in and doing your best. Vivax played well enough to warrant the night one shot. I have no advice for Onegu because Onegu is perfect. Hope you enjoyed the game! | ||
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
HEART OF DARKNESS - THE ENDGAME DRINK ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xVe6XwV.jpg?1) Ingredients 45ml Cimarron Tequila 15ml Koch Espadin Mezcal 15ml lime juice 15ml agave syrup 2 bar spoons activated charcoal raspberry preserves 1 dash Bittermens Mole Bitters Directions Combine ingredients and shake over ice. Serve over crushed ice in a snifter with a black lace heart-shaped doily/activated charcoal sprayed orchid on top. To make activated charcoal raspberry preserves: One 370 gram jar of raspberry preserves to 5 teaspoons of activated charcoal. Use the immersion blender to integrate. Darthfoley, Calix and Squishy, congratulations. It was a pleasure. But I don't know if you'd want to chance four of these now.... | ||
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
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Calix
3379 Posts
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ika42
260 Posts
but like i said, game was called when day began on mylo | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
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Calix
3379 Posts
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cakepie
985 Posts
On January 14 2017 09:03 Calix wrote: Man, I want to see how obvious mafia we were to the obs :D obswarrior got ya'll fairly quick | ||
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
On January 14 2017 09:03 ika42 wrote: i knew calix was too passive to be town but like i said, game was called when day began on mylo Well you helped us by doing nothing about it. Anyways, the win is not as sweet as it could've been. We really want to thank btdt for his... interesting play :D | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
though the hint that scum qt was having cocktails helped a lot with poe'ing it down. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
NM: calix is playing very town, but I coached her when she was last mafia. she's capable of playing well as mafia. still remember our last qt together. she knows how to play. in fact, if she's alive past d3 or in mylo, you lynch her. no mafia team should leave her alive when you're down to your last lynch.  I managed to endgame as scum though!  | ||
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
Mistakes are there to be made. Btdt basically sent that super drunk text to the highschool cush with a perfect rationale behind it at the time but only in the morning you realise it wasn't that good of an idea. Beautiful | ||
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Vivax
21978 Posts
On January 14 2017 09:03 darthfoley wrote: Vivax had it before he backtracked on me in obs :o Damn yours and Calix mylo tryharding for that. | ||
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Kmatt
United States1019 Posts
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ika42
260 Posts
On January 14 2017 09:05 darthfoley wrote: Well you helped us by doing nothing about it. Anyways, the win is not as sweet as it could've been. We really want to thank btdt for his... interesting play :D well the btdt is what kinda stopped it, add in gracks stubboness to not expalina simple town read (and if he did and i agreed in general i would of tried to town bloc him in it) kinda derailed it i was gonna go on this huge speil but the mod already kinda touched on it. | ||
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