On September 20 2016 23:18 disformation wrote: wait for it... + Show Spoiler +
/obs
Weak!
Yes I agree! But I don't think I can currently play as much/as good as I want to. Or I will play too much and fuck up some RL stuffs. Either way I cannot in good conscience sign up for this.
I had the same doubts, but Palmar told me to go YOLO
On September 24 2016 07:01 Calix wrote: Checking in to check out.
Back to the scum qt already?
Of course. Lynching the scum is so much easier when you sneak into their private chat, didn't you know?
It's just getting late here and I'm going to be busy for a lot of tomorrow with unpacking so I won't be super-active today.
K. I'll be sleeping soon too. However, one thing - why did you decide to make a first post with only the content of claiming future inactivity?
Because it's true. I'm not going to be lurking, just explaining why my activity isn't going to be as good as it was in my first game.
It has nothing to do with my alignment since it's RL and I'd like to think that people aren't going to read into that. Lying about RL is unsportsmanlike.
Some people do that though But well, I'm not really concerned about your RL stuff / overall activity levels too much. There's mainly the way you entered the thread. In any case, good night, and let's see what others post.
On September 24 2016 07:16 Calix wrote: I'm not an expert on TL site meta so maybe you can fill me in since you're a vet and all that - what is the general site like?
I got the impression that people tend to be pretty laid-back/ lazy around here myself.
I haven't played in a newbie game in many years, but I think newbie games tend to be more "lazy". In veteran-filled games, though, the first day already can have countless pages of filter per player... It really depends on the players.
Heh. In the end, I didn't mean you were anyhow meaningfully justifying inactivity, just that it could have been a case of feeling threatened about your own lesser future activity or something. But, it's nothing much... You didn't just disappear either, but stayed to endure the spotlight. Good night.
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote: I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
Probably the worst post in the game so far (and definitely the worst of the opening posts). It's a wishy-washy suspicion riding on already existing suspicions. Pretty much the safest possible suspicion to make as scum, and leaves you with plenty of options to proceed (vote for him if it gains steam or forget it if not). Even the tone is so passive and uninvolved..
On September 24 2016 14:02 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote: I liked that last bit you wrote in the post. I feel the same way but I tend to be impulsive and pressurize my way into getting reads as a natural reaction when I begin playing through RVS which has lead to some results in getting activity in the game which is nice. I still have yet to see the point in the RVS in general but noticed the lack of presence of it so far here. Would like to hear the views of how you perceive RVS/what kinds of points given. This may not lead to alignment indicative posts, but gives me an understanding of where people's heads are at this point in the game.
That being said, I like how confident tone in that post, it could be from a very well seasoned player, but normally see caution amongst scum at the beginning, so I am definitely light town reading Jealous based on the #233, I also like how there is consistency on the behaviour reasoning for the post I questioned which again feels like they are not frabricating a reasoning. Please note, my reads tend to have a dynamic flow as the game state changes so take it with a grain of salt.
I don't believe in RVS for much the same reasons that I listed for reads. I will rarely if ever trust a player that votes and un-votes and re-votes multiple times per lynch cycle. Decisions like that need to be done with a firm hand, and not frivolously. Too many people playing silly pressure games can result in a ML. Mafia is a game of psychology, and voting creates social pressure on parties that may otherwise be more objective and thus could contribute to the discussion/analysis and not simply sheep or jump on a train. Not sure what you mean by the bolded above.
I'm in this as a newbie so I'm definitely not a well-seasoned player ^^ Thank you, but don't suck up to me just yet, I tend to be wrong a lot, unfortunately.
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^
Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
Emphasis mine. I'd lynch for this
I would appreciate some elaboration on this.
Actually I'd also like some elaboration on that part, Stutters? Maybe a passive and useless thing to say, but I don't it's on the level of DanelerH's post.
In any case, this post is overall pretty much fluff. Do you have opinions outside of policy?
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This, plus there's Shutter's first post:
On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote: I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
Probably the worst post in the game so far (and definitely the worst of the opening posts). It's a wishy-washy suspicion riding on already existing suspicions. Pretty much the safest possible suspicion to make as scum, and leaves you with plenty of options to proceed (vote for him if it gains steam or forget it if not). Even the tone is so passive and uninvolved..
True. The rest of his posts are just him responding to Calix too, so the only real post he made by himself was the one you linked. He might be scum
Yeah, he might. At least if I had to shoot someone right now, I'd choose him.
I guess you're suspicious of Lunaticman and Jealous so far? I agree they haven't really contributed anything meaningful, but is it just because of that?
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This, plus there's Shutter's first post:
On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote: I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
Probably the worst post in the game so far (and definitely the worst of the opening posts). It's a wishy-washy suspicion riding on already existing suspicions. Pretty much the safest possible suspicion to make as scum, and leaves you with plenty of options to proceed (vote for him if it gains steam or forget it if not). Even the tone is so passive and uninvolved..
True. The rest of his posts are just him responding to Calix too, so the only real post he made by himself was the one you linked. He might be scum
Yeah, he might. At least if I had to shoot someone right now, I'd choose him.
I guess you're suspicious of Lunaticman and Jealous so far? I agree they haven't really contributed anything meaningful, but is it just because of that?
On September 24 2016 18:50 ptmc wrote: My reads so far: town lean: Calix Jealous
since i can agree with their reasoning
slight scum lean: SoulEaterQUEEN, but purely based on the RVS
Stutters, see calix' post, also his mentioning of his meta rubs me the wrong way Lunatic, since he town reads my scum lean?
I don't quite understand this part?
Ok, maybe a scum lean is too harsh. But I see no point in having a random vote as town, while for scum it leaves easy outs if it's a ML and you don't have to actually base your vote on any arguments, making it easier to lynch a town.
Hm. I guess that kind of makes sense. Although it's pretty much impossible for scum to just leave a random vote up without any follow-up anyway.
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This, plus there's Shutter's first post:
On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote: I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
Probably the worst post in the game so far (and definitely the worst of the opening posts). It's a wishy-washy suspicion riding on already existing suspicions. Pretty much the safest possible suspicion to make as scum, and leaves you with plenty of options to proceed (vote for him if it gains steam or forget it if not). Even the tone is so passive and uninvolved..
While that would the the stance from a Mafia perspective, there's also a similar stance from a Town perspective. I agreed with the suspicion on Shutter and I was suspicious of xym for another reason, so I included that in my post.
Hm. I guess it's not decisively scummy or anything, but usually it's the scum who open the game with posts that blend in and safely bandwagon weak suspicions of others. That's why I singled you out in this case. Let's see though.
On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote: I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it:
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^
Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote: [quote]
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata.
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
Stutters:
Calix: You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test?
My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play.
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote: [quote] Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^
Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote: [quote] This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata.
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
Stutters: [quote] My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play.
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote: [quote]
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote: [quote]
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ?
No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet.
There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer.
The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
I'm still not seeing an answer as to why you think Stutters is Town. Dodging my question is not making me any less suspicious of you.
Blue role...? Why would you say that? Well, I guess because DanelerH pestered you about it. Better not elaborate though for now, and focus on more helpful topics.
On September 24 2016 18:50 ptmc wrote: My reads so far: town lean: Calix Jealous
since i can agree with their reasoning
slight scum lean: SoulEaterQUEEN, but purely based on the RVS
Stutters, see calix' post, also his mentioning of his meta rubs me the wrong way Lunatic, since he town reads my scum lean?
I don't quite understand this part?
Ok, maybe a scum lean is too harsh. But I see no point in having a random vote as town, while for scum it leaves easy outs if it's a ML and you don't have to actually base your vote on any arguments, making it easier to lynch a town.
Hm. I guess that kind of makes sense. Although it's pretty much impossible for scum to just leave a random vote up without any follow-up anyway.
Sure. But even if it doesn't result in a lynch, a random vote in the first day would leave one vote with no AI at all when analyzed later in the game, still only benefiting scum and not town.
On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote: I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it:
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^
Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote: [quote]
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata.
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
Stutters:
Calix: You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test?
My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play.
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote: [quote] Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^
Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote: [quote] This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata.
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
Stutters: [quote] My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play.
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote: [quote]
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote: [quote]
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ?
No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet.
There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer.
The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
I'm still not seeing an answer as to why you think Stutters is Town. Dodging my question is not making me any less suspicious of you.
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This, plus there's Shutter's first post:
On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote: I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
Probably the worst post in the game so far (and definitely the worst of the opening posts). It's a wishy-washy suspicion riding on already existing suspicions. Pretty much the safest possible suspicion to make as scum, and leaves you with plenty of options to proceed (vote for him if it gains steam or forget it if not). Even the tone is so passive and uninvolved..
True. The rest of his posts are just him responding to Calix too, so the only real post he made by himself was the one you linked. He might be scum
Yeah, he might. At least if I had to shoot someone right now, I'd choose him.
I guess you're suspicious of Lunaticman and Jealous so far? I agree they haven't really contributed anything meaningful, but is it just because of that?
Yep.
Ok Well, I guess that's not the worst reason...
Sorry I only answered the first question p: Lunatic because of this attitude of "I promise I'll tell you later but I won't tell you why", Jealous because of all the fluff in his filter when I know he's a pushy dude.
Oh, I thought you answered "yes" to the latter question.
On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote: I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it:
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
[quote]
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
[quote]
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
[quote]
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
[quote]
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote: [quote] Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote: [quote] I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ?
No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet.
There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer.
The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
I'm still not seeing an answer as to why you think Stutters is Town. Dodging my question is not making me any less suspicious of you.
You realize what you're asking for...?
I highly doubt Lunaticman actually believes Stutters is a TPR. It sounds a lot more like Lunaticman is just trying to fake a reason not to give a reason for the Town-read.
On September 25 2016 01:51 Lunaticman wrote: Im going to concert so the TLDR, is tone/meta/activity. Stutters has shown more intrest and activity in the first day than recent games combined.
Of course he has a power role, and from context I dont think he is mafia.
I am kind of suprised by how this escelated from a simple townread. It feels like someone doesnt want to build a town circle and jerk peoples chain instead.
Not really sure if I understand that part. On the other hand, I'm not really even sure we should be discussing this topic at all!
Meh, in the end, it would be better if you elaborated on that meta point rather than the role thingy. And in any case, we're not lynching Stutters anyway, so it's not the most important topic.
As for DanelerH, we'll see, but can't say I was thrilled with his latest posts either (fishing for why Stutters would be blue? - need to recheck these discussions later).
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This, plus there's Shutter's first post:
On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote: I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
So initially, contrary to Xatalos, i didn't think this is entirely bad. I can see myself saying something like the bolded bit, on the other hand reasons for coming up to the bolded part is shitty. Like Stutter's entry is nothing different than a "First! Townread me!", its entirel nai.
So I'm thinking like hmmm he's a bit confused, then you wrote this...
On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote: I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it:
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^
Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata.
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
Stutters:
Calix: You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test?
My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play.
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^
Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote: [quote] I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata.
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
Stutters:
Calix: You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test?
My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play.
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
[quote]
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
[quote]
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
[quote]
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
[quote]
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ?
No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet.
There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer.
In this post the mindset transforms from confusion into a tryhard sr imo.
Hmm... I'm a bit confused... What was the point/conclusion of this post? That he noticed my pressure of being so wishy-washy and switched to tryhard (sr?) mode? And does this make him scummy or what? How does it relate to his first post?
Maybe it's not "entirely bad", but still the least towny way to start the game from what I've seen. I guess it's not like it's a scumclaim or anything like that
On September 25 2016 04:56 ptmc wrote: I still cannot follow Lunaticmans reasoning on Stutters at all. I don't even see how it is discussing blue roles, since any checks would be done in the upcoming night phase?
So i kind of agree with Rels and Xatalos in that regard, however fail to see why Xatalos dislikes DanelerH? What is your opinion of him, Skynx?
Mainly his first post (piling on to throw more weak suspicion against a very easy target without committing either way) and lack of anything that I've liked after that either. For the time being at least.
And I dislike discussing potential blue roles especially on D1, which is why I said that Lunatic shouldn't say whatever he was going to say about his own blue theories. Well, maybe he should if Stutters was going to get lynched or something, but not really at this point in time.
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This, plus there's Shutter's first post:
On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote: I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
So initially, contrary to Xatalos, i didn't think this is entirely bad. I can see myself saying something like the bolded bit, on the other hand reasons for coming up to the bolded part is shitty. Like Stutter's entry is nothing different than a "First! Townread me!", its entirel nai.
So I'm thinking like hmmm he's a bit confused, then you wrote this...
On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote: I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it:
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^
Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote: [quote] I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata.
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
Stutters:
Calix: You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test?
My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play.
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
[quote]
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
[quote]
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
[quote]
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
[quote]
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote: [quote] Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ?
No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet.
There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer.
In this post the mindset transforms from confusion into a tryhard sr imo.
Hmm... I'm a bit confused... What was the point/conclusion of this post? That he noticed my pressure of being so wishy-washy and switched to tryhard (sr?) mode? And does this make him scummy or what? How does it relate to his first post?
Maybe it's not "entirely bad", but still the least towny way to start the game from what I've seen. I guess it's not like it's a scumclaim or anything like that
It's a soft scumread, the point of the post being.
I tried to show the way i went thinking about the post, so someone trying to interpret it the same way can see if it makes sense to him aswell.
Hm. Ok. But I'm still a bit confused. How did he go from the first post (neutralish?) to somewhat scummy... Because his attitude changed to tryhard afterwards?
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This, plus there's Shutter's first post:
On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote: I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
So initially, contrary to Xatalos, i didn't think this is entirely bad. I can see myself saying something like the bolded bit, on the other hand reasons for coming up to the bolded part is shitty. Like Stutter's entry is nothing different than a "First! Townread me!", its entirel nai.
So I'm thinking like hmmm he's a bit confused, then you wrote this...
On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote: I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it:
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
[quote]
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
[quote]
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
[quote]
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
[quote]
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote: [quote] Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote: [quote] I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ?
No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet.
There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer.
In this post the mindset transforms from confusion into a tryhard sr imo.
Hmm... I'm a bit confused... What was the point/conclusion of this post? That he noticed my pressure of being so wishy-washy and switched to tryhard (sr?) mode? And does this make him scummy or what? How does it relate to his first post?
Maybe it's not "entirely bad", but still the least towny way to start the game from what I've seen. I guess it's not like it's a scumclaim or anything like that
It's a soft scumread, the point of the post being.
I tried to show the way i went thinking about the post, so someone trying to interpret it the same way can see if it makes sense to him aswell.
Hm. Ok. But I'm still a bit confused. How did he go from the first post (neutralish?) to somewhat scummy... Because his attitude changed to tryhard afterwards?
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
This at first feels neutral territory thing, questioning the entry, posing out something unnecessary from it however it is actually nothing at all. The entire thing is purely nai with everyone being capable of saying all sorts of stupid stuff like "hey 1st post tr me plx ty xoxo" at beginning of the game and we just laugh it off. How he went about making that whole post was very triggering for me, then i saw the post about Lunatic and I'm like "ok this guys is literally trying to find absurd reasons to sr ppl".
On a more serious note: well, "absurd" may be a strong word, but I'd say that there hasn't been much meat to his suspicions. Let's see how things play out between him and Lunatic... Now that he has somehow committed to a cause (triggering Lunatic on the "hiding reasons" issue ), it might become interesting.
On September 24 2016 19:46 Rels wrote: I like Stutters. The reasons are kinda weak but I suppose it's normal for early game. Gonna wait for Lunatic to give me his reasons before disclosing mine.
With Lunaticman not wanting to disclose his read reasons, could you at least do us the favour?
On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote: I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it:
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^
Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote: [quote] I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata.
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
Stutters:
Calix: You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test?
My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play.
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
[quote]
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
[quote]
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
[quote]
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
[quote]
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote: [quote] Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ?
No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet.
There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer.
The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
Why do you think that ? Blue role / scum are notably difficult to differentiate sometimes.
Do you even still think Stutters is town?
I guess these things would be good to hear from Rels, yeah.
As for me, I kind of liked Stutter's early aggressive / attention gathering style of posting. In the sense that it tells of a relaxed stance rather than one of fear. Well, I guess it's not super-strong or anything in the end.
Not like any read can really be super-strong at this point.
I guess Calix and Rels seem pretty OK too. Others are quite blank.
On September 25 2016 04:56 ptmc wrote: I still cannot follow Lunaticmans reasoning on Stutters at all. I don't even see how it is discussing blue roles, since any checks would be done in the upcoming night phase?
So i kind of agree with Rels and Xatalos in that regard, however fail to see why Xatalos dislikes DanelerH? What is your opinion of him, Skynx?
Mainly his first post (piling on to throw more weak suspicion against a very easy target without committing either way) and lack of anything that I've liked after that either. For the time being at least.
And I dislike discussing potential blue roles especially on D1, which is why I said that Lunatic shouldn't say whatever he was going to say about his own blue theories. Well, maybe he should if Stutters was going to get lynched or something, but not really at this point in time.
I still have a hard time following why discussing potential blue roles D1 is bad. Or, to put it differently, I don't see how you even can discuss blue roles day 1. Since they haven't done/seen anything yet, how would they act different than a VT? Except maybe stay a bit out of the spotlight so that mafia lynch a VT. But that would be almost the opposite of what Lunaticman did: giving a sure town read, that then even increases to a sure town power role read?
I've never been able to notice who have powers or not very well, but some players seem to have the gift of immediately noticing if someone is a blue. I've seen this happen quite a few times now. If we assume that Lunatic has noticed something and is town, it's pretty much purely harmful to elaborate on that in the thread (it should be easy to understand - just helping out the scumteam for free). If he's scum, well, it doesn't really matter since they would know everything Lunatic knows. No matter what, I don't see real benefits in talking about the topic?
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This, plus there's Shutter's first post:
On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote: I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
So initially, contrary to Xatalos, i didn't think this is entirely bad. I can see myself saying something like the bolded bit, on the other hand reasons for coming up to the bolded part is shitty. Like Stutter's entry is nothing different than a "First! Townread me!", its entirel nai.
So I'm thinking like hmmm he's a bit confused, then you wrote this...
On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote: I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it:
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote: [quote]
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote: [quote]
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote: [quote]
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ?
No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet.
There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer.
In this post the mindset transforms from confusion into a tryhard sr imo.
Hmm... I'm a bit confused... What was the point/conclusion of this post? That he noticed my pressure of being so wishy-washy and switched to tryhard (sr?) mode? And does this make him scummy or what? How does it relate to his first post?
Maybe it's not "entirely bad", but still the least towny way to start the game from what I've seen. I guess it's not like it's a scumclaim or anything like that
It's a soft scumread, the point of the post being.
I tried to show the way i went thinking about the post, so someone trying to interpret it the same way can see if it makes sense to him aswell.
Hm. Ok. But I'm still a bit confused. How did he go from the first post (neutralish?) to somewhat scummy... Because his attitude changed to tryhard afterwards?
I mean
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
This at first feels neutral territory thing, questioning the entry, posing out something unnecessary from it however it is actually nothing at all. The entire thing is purely nai with everyone being capable of saying all sorts of stupid stuff like "hey 1st post tr me plx ty xoxo" at beginning of the game and we just laugh it off. How he went about making that whole post was very triggering for me, then i saw the post about Lunatic and I'm like "ok this guys is literally trying to find absurd reasons to sr ppl".
But you yourself disliked Lunaticmans townread of Stutters, no? Maybe it is too weak for a sr, but all i see DanelerH doing is to look further into that, which is a good thing imo.
Hm. I guess you could look at it that way too. Maybe I've been a bit too tunneled on DanelerH.
What I saw there was DanelerH fishing for information regarding blue tells (pretty much explicitly a scummy thing to do), but in fact, it's not really an accurate description since his push started before Lunatic pointed out that it was related to blue tells. So... I guess DanelerH looks a bit better after all. Meh, we'll see.
On September 25 2016 04:56 ptmc wrote: I still cannot follow Lunaticmans reasoning on Stutters at all. I don't even see how it is discussing blue roles, since any checks would be done in the upcoming night phase?
So i kind of agree with Rels and Xatalos in that regard, however fail to see why Xatalos dislikes DanelerH? What is your opinion of him, Skynx?
Mainly his first post (piling on to throw more weak suspicion against a very easy target without committing either way) and lack of anything that I've liked after that either. For the time being at least.
And I dislike discussing potential blue roles especially on D1, which is why I said that Lunatic shouldn't say whatever he was going to say about his own blue theories. Well, maybe he should if Stutters was going to get lynched or something, but not really at this point in time.
I still have a hard time following why discussing potential blue roles D1 is bad. Or, to put it differently, I don't see how you even can discuss blue roles day 1. Since they haven't done/seen anything yet, how would they act different than a VT? Except maybe stay a bit out of the spotlight so that mafia lynch a VT. But that would be almost the opposite of what Lunaticman did: giving a sure town read, that then even increases to a sure town power role read?
I've never been able to notice who have powers or not very well, but some players seem to have the gift of immediately noticing if someone is a blue. I've seen this happen quite a few times now. If we assume that Lunatic has noticed something and is town, it's pretty much purely harmful to elaborate on that in the thread (it should be easy to understand - just helping out the scumteam for free). If he's scum, well, it doesn't really matter since they would know everything Lunatic knows. No matter what, I don't see real benefits in talking about the topic?
Okay, if we live of the assumption that Lunatic did see Stutters as such a clear town (power role) read as a town, why would he then even proclaim that? As you said, there are no real benefits to talking about it in the topic. And his completely baseless townread on Stutters had to be questioned imo.
Dunno. If he's right, it could be a really bad thing. If he's wrong/WIFOMing, it could be good. However, to me it seemed like he was confident in the read and just hinted at it to stop the discussion or something... Meh... We're still discussing the topic :/
I guess it's true that it wasn't inherently bad to question his read though.
On September 25 2016 06:36 ptmc wrote: But even hinting at a power role has to get scum interested in him as a night kill target. I see no reason where a) Lunaticman could read Stutters as a town power role, or even 100% town b) where, after having arrived at the conclusion that Stutters is a town power role, the best course of action is to proclaim him 100% town without any hint at a reason.
Hm, true. Yeah, it's a bit odd to put the townread out there in the first place. Would be nice to hear his reasoning.
On September 25 2016 06:39 ptmc wrote: Even having someone established as clearly town (if we would follow Lunatics argument) would make him a prime night kill target, making it all moot. I guess I could accept it easier if we were closer to deadline with a probable lynch on Stutters, where Lunatic would use his superpowers of townreading to try to save him, but like this it is just too weird.
I can kind of see the reason being to prevent a lynch on him, but yeah, it's pretty useless and even counter-productive to put it out there early on.
On September 25 2016 06:39 ptmc wrote: Updated reads-list before I'll go to bed: town-lean calix, similar reads rels, similar reads skynx, similar reads (except DanelerH)
inconclusive Xatalos, i like the tone, but the Lunaticman-saga leaves some questionmarks about you as well DanelerH, very pushy, looks for Lunaticman-answers that i am interested in scott31337, similar reads, but no actual input to the thread yet Jealous, reread posts, no longer anyting AI in there. good bit of fluff. SoulEaterQUEEN, i still dislike RVS tho
scum-lean Stutters, to me he sounded more nervous than the relaxed read he gets from Rels, what with his fast explanation of the reaction test etc. Lunaticman, what is that townread?
Nothing to work with: DoYouHas Superbia
I'll stick my vote on Stutters as a safety for the unlikely event that I won't make it here at all tomorrow. ## Vote Stutters
Hmmm..... Well, I guess that quick reveal could point to being "nervous", but what about the rest of his posts?
And a bit lol @ "what is that townread" :D
DoYouHas did make quite a bit of posts earlier btw.
"similar reads" isn't really a very good argument...
On September 25 2016 17:20 Calix wrote: Actually Lunatic looks like a better lynch with how he's reacting to the pitiful amount of pressure he's getting and aside from "over-reacts to pressure and is making bad posts out of frustration" I'm confused as to why he's acting like this in the first place. I haven't seen anything explicitly townie from him either.
Anyway, he says he's one of the more productive players - if that's productive then this game is a spam-fest. He also claims he's building a town circle which I have yet to see on both points. (his weird-ass town-read on Stutters doesn't count) I recall him saying he was going to investigate the first few posters or something - has he followed up on that?
With regards to TPR-hunting, again, that's anti-town because scum would just post their TPR-reads into their private chat. It's also insanely retarded to do as town and if Lunatic thought that Stutters was blue then he should have just defended Stutters using his posts to avoid this. I have no idea what he was trying to achieve there but I guarantee that the execution was terrible.
This read is shit because a lot of his actions require a crapload of WIFOM to decipher. His mindset doesn't make any bloody sense to me and I don't see a coherent explanation for his actions for town or scum, so I'd like to clear that up.
This reasoning is similar with Daneler to an extent as I am finding him difficult to place. However he is less disruptive to the chat compared to Lunatic.
Yeah, that whole situation seems pretty stupid from any perspective. No reason to out a blue read in any form as town (even in the form of a non-reasoned strong town read -> pretty obviously a blue read), but no reason to start talking about that as scum either (just putting negative attention on himself for no reason). I guess it was some panic decision under pressure. Maybe leaning scum after all because why would he panic so much as town under a little pressure? Hmmm. Well, let's say he would be a lynch candidate, definitely over Stutter.
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^
Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
This is a pretty bad first post, as been quoted and noted earlier.
On September 24 2016 14:02 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote: I liked that last bit you wrote in the post. I feel the same way but I tend to be impulsive and pressurize my way into getting reads as a natural reaction when I begin playing through RVS which has lead to some results in getting activity in the game which is nice. I still have yet to see the point in the RVS in general but noticed the lack of presence of it so far here. Would like to hear the views of how you perceive RVS/what kinds of points given. This may not lead to alignment indicative posts, but gives me an understanding of where people's heads are at this point in the game.
That being said, I like how confident tone in that post, it could be from a very well seasoned player, but normally see caution amongst scum at the beginning, so I am definitely light town reading Jealous based on the #233, I also like how there is consistency on the behaviour reasoning for the post I questioned which again feels like they are not frabricating a reasoning. Please note, my reads tend to have a dynamic flow as the game state changes so take it with a grain of salt.
There's a few things that bug me about this post (besides his failure to quote, which is one) It's so pronouny it's a bit difficult to know who he's even talking about - especially if you get into another day and do a filter re-read. The second would be the "Please note, my reads tend to have a dynamic flow as the game state changes so take it with a grain of salt." which in theory any one would do. It gives me weird vibes.
On September 25 2016 13:07 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote: Okay so here's my thoughts on what I have read up on so far: town leans on Xalador (gave my reasons earlier) pmtc (the discussion and decoding Danaler's alignment with Xalador felt incredibly nature/smooth + points on scum hunting) Calix (earlier interactions = bit blurry on reasoning though other than criticism on stutter just nice impression since it gave me stuff to work with to get out of gross RVS)
small town lean on Danaler (gave my reasoning earlier = based on tunnelling on Lunar) DoYouHas (analysis on myself I guess? kinda a weak reasoning)
Unsure on Jealous (confident tone which felt townie to me, abuses newb card in #366 rubs me the wrong way. Good point by Rels that alarms go off on the lack of scum hunting) Stutters (still need more on current game state thoughts)
Slight Scum read Lunar (commented on how I didn't like how he gave into the pressure by players, shakey confidence, but didn't like the filler jab I pointed out in #357 and #359 - don't like meta tells to be that conceret)
the rest, nothing really stood out in my backreading.
Although I disagree with a bit of this list - SEQ is providing a list here. (IE Jealous & Rels) Xatalos is a really spammy player but nothing has set me off on him or anything yet.
Stutters, I feel it's a little OMGUS with a couple good and a few bad posts, to be honest. Just under null is where I'd put SEQ.
On September 25 2016 18:23 Lunaticman wrote: I wonder how not wanting to state a read because it will reveal a blue role is equal towards being mafia. The reason for not saying anything is because that is based o information town dont want mafia to know.
This game is just full of paragraf knights. I told you why I didnt want to say my SINGLE read and I got forced. Saying I wasnt forced is a lie.
And when I do say why Im a coward, so either way Im scum. And that dosent even make sense.
It is also intresting to see that town once again town reads the people with most posts as town.
Remember that mafia always sound smater and better because they know who is mafia and are working with perfect information.
Lastly I yet to see a day one lynch of a mafia player so anything that happens day one usually is just speculation.
My time is precious this weekend the little spare time I have not working is spent defending myself. I dont really have time to do what I want which is identify townies and lookig for mafia in the top posters day one.
A good example is my last normal game in which I found the gf day one and was unsuccessful in lynching him 3 days in a row because the mafia undermined me constantly.
But why did you say that Stutter was a strong town read in the first place without any reasoning? Isn't that the same as claiming that he's potentially a blue in your opinion (from scum perspective)? Granted, it could also be a complicated meta reason or something, but having a blue read is often the reason if someone doesn't want to say his reasons for a read. And then why reveal the blue read so quickly anyway under a bit of pressure? It's just... pretty much a disastrous chain of events, especially if you're town and correct. It's also disastrous if you're scum, so... Just why?
On second thoughts, I can think of two potential scenarios where those events would make some sense. I think the scum scenario makes a bit more sense, given that he's a newbie. I'll wait a bit more before saying them out loud.
On September 25 2016 18:23 Lunaticman wrote: I wonder how not wanting to state a read because it will reveal a blue role is equal towards being mafia. The reason for not saying anything is because that is based o information town dont want mafia to know.
This game is just full of paragraf knights. I told you why I didnt want to say my SINGLE read and I got forced. Saying I wasnt forced is a lie.
And when I do say why Im a coward, so either way Im scum. And that dosent even make sense.
It is also intresting to see that town once again town reads the people with most posts as town.
Remember that mafia always sound smater and better because they know who is mafia and are working with perfect information.
Lastly I yet to see a day one lynch of a mafia player so anything that happens day one usually is just speculation.
My time is precious this weekend the little spare time I have not working is spent defending myself. I dont really have time to do what I want which is identify townies and lookig for mafia in the top posters day one.
A good example is my last normal game in which I found the gf day one and was unsuccessful in lynching him 3 days in a row because the mafia undermined me constantly.
But why did you say that Stutter was a strong town read in the first place without any reasoning? Isn't that the same as claiming that he's potentially a blue in your opinion (from scum perspective)? Granted, it could also be a complicated meta reason or something, but having a blue read is often the reason if someone doesn't want to say his reasons for a read. And then why reveal the blue read so quickly anyway under a bit of pressure? It's just... pretty much a disastrous chain of events, especially if you're town and correct. It's also disastrous if you're scum, so... Just why?
So you don't have hunches? I'm just saying nothing that has been said today has been nothing but speculation and you are accusing me of not giving reasons?
God ok I'll play your game:
Stutters is town because I have a meta read on him.
Satisified?
"No, how can you know that?"
"Because I played with him before"
"Really explain!"
On and on this goes. the TL mafia community really has a hard time dealing with people playing emotionally rather than using logic.
I'm probably not going to respond to anything related to my first town read anymore. It feels like beating a dead horse.
Huh. Yeah, I wanted to see some more posts before revealing my thoughts on Lunatic, but doesn't seem like anyone is really posting...
So here are the two scenarios that I could imagine earlier:
1) Scum: He was trying to gain some easy credibility by pointing out a town read based on actual reasoning (blue read on Stutters after bluehunting him, as scum tend to bluehunt more often than town). Then he went into a bit of a panic after he got pressured for not reasoning his read and immediately claimed the blue read, which doesn't make much sense as town, but makes a bit more sense as scum since he wanted to relieve the pressure on him ASAP. In hindsight the play was a mistake (claiming Stutters was town without saying the reason), but it would make some sense from scum perspective at the time of doing it, especially since he's a newbie.
2) Town: Actually it was all a big WIFOM play as town to gather reactions and confuse scum bluehunting. However, this seems less likely since he's a newbie and still hasn't claimed anything of this sort despite lengthy posting on the topic.
So all things considered, him being scum makes quite a bit more sense IMO.
Well, actually there's also a third scenario, where he's town and simply messed up by making a blue read, including it in his read list for some reason (without specifically saying that he thought he was a blue) and then saying it out loud in the heat of the moment. I guess that's a bit more likely than the scenario #2 after all since he's a newbie... But scenario #1 seems the most credible one, I guess. Hm. Any opinions?
Meh, not totally sure, but I think he still seems a bit worse than DanelerH atm.
As for others, can't say I've found anything especially suspicious otherwise. Stutters' thing against Soul still confuses me. As for Jealous, I guess he could be scum, he's been pretty passive/blendy, but nothing really jumps out as scummy from him that I've noticed.
On September 26 2016 02:21 Xatalos wrote: Well, actually there's also a third scenario, where he's town and simply messed up by making a blue read, including it in his read list for some reason (without specifically saying that he thought he was a blue) and then saying it out loud in the heat of the moment. I guess that's a bit more likely than the scenario #2 after all since he's a newbie... But scenario #1 seems the most credible one, I guess. Hm. Any opinions?
Man I somehow feel like Luna is just misinformed town trying to cover up mistake of being lazy and saying he's blue.
Hm, why? I guess it's not an impossible scenario, but... Would be really helpful if he could post more before the deadline.
On September 25 2016 18:23 Lunaticman wrote: I wonder how not wanting to state a read because it will reveal a blue role is equal towards being mafia. The reason for not saying anything is because that is based o information town dont want mafia to know.
This game is just full of paragraf knights. I told you why I didnt want to say my SINGLE read and I got forced. Saying I wasnt forced is a lie.
And when I do say why Im a coward, so either way Im scum. And that dosent even make sense.
It is also intresting to see that town once again town reads the people with most posts as town.
Remember that mafia always sound smater and better because they know who is mafia and are working with perfect information.
Lastly I yet to see a day one lynch of a mafia player so anything that happens day one usually is just speculation.
My time is precious this weekend the little spare time I have not working is spent defending myself. I dont really have time to do what I want which is identify townies and lookig for mafia in the top posters day one.
A good example is my last normal game in which I found the gf day one and was unsuccessful in lynching him 3 days in a row because the mafia undermined me constantly.
But why did you say that Stutter was a strong town read in the first place without any reasoning? Isn't that the same as claiming that he's potentially a blue in your opinion (from scum perspective)? Granted, it could also be a complicated meta reason or something, but having a blue read is often the reason if someone doesn't want to say his reasons for a read. And then why reveal the blue read so quickly anyway under a bit of pressure? It's just... pretty much a disastrous chain of events, especially if you're town and correct. It's also disastrous if you're scum, so... Just why?
So you don't have hunches? I'm just saying nothing that has been said today has been nothing but speculation and you are accusing me of not giving reasons?
God ok I'll play your game:
Stutters is town because I have a meta read on him.
Satisified?
"No, how can you know that?"
"Because I played with him before"
"Really explain!"
On and on this goes. the TL mafia community really has a hard time dealing with people playing emotionally rather than using logic.
I'm probably not going to respond to anything related to my first town read anymore. It feels like beating a dead horse.
Wow this is another awful post
Haha yeah, it was quite useless and confusing. Much like the rest of his filter so far tbh...
On September 26 2016 02:27 Xatalos wrote: What are your thoughts then, Rels?
Lunatic is probably scum and needs to die. You, Calix, scott, ptmc, DYH, Dan, Stutters have all done something that made me think you could be town. Jealous is still unable to comment on anything. He's my second preferred lynch. The others are null.
On September 26 2016 02:58 Calix wrote: Also I'm going out to drink so EOD is going to be fun xD
My lynch list is as follows:
Would not lynch: SEQ/ Xatalos/ ptmc/ Rels (they are townie/ decently active/ contributing. Lynching actives on D1, especially now, is suboptimal) Superbia (replacement or modkill incoming)
Might lynch: Skynx/ DYH/ Scott - For doing nothing Jealous - He's such a wet blanket that you could fill a water tank If your name isn't on this list then you're here as well
On September 26 2016 02:27 Xatalos wrote: What are your thoughts then, Rels?
Lunatic is probably scum and needs to die. You, Calix, scott, ptmc, DYH, Dan, Stutters have all done something that made me think you could be town. Jealous is still unable to comment on anything. He's my second preferred lynch. The others are null.
DanelerH is town, really?
He has questionned Lunatic pretty hard with the few posts he did. Whatever Lunatic alignement is, Dan's questionning is townie to me; if Lunatic is scum, scum!Dan would maybe bus, but maybe not pressure him like this; if Lunatic is town, it's weird to push a mislynch so hard. Basically, I think his Lunatic push is townie 'cause he's a newbie and scum!newbs are usually more shy.
Hm. Maybe. I got a bit more of the impression that he reacted to being called wishy-washy by taking some stance and just pushing it (Lunatic's odd townread on Stutters) to avoid that criticism? In any case, I guess you could call it a towny action on its own.
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This, plus there's Shutter's first post:
On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote: I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
So initially, contrary to Xatalos, i didn't think this is entirely bad. I can see myself saying something like the bolded bit, on the other hand reasons for coming up to the bolded part is shitty. Like Stutter's entry is nothing different than a "First! Townread me!", its entirel nai.
So I'm thinking like hmmm he's a bit confused, then you wrote this...
On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote: I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it:
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
[quote]
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
[quote]
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
[quote]
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
[quote]
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote: [quote] Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote: [quote] I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ?
No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet.
There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer.
In this post the mindset transforms from confusion into a tryhard sr imo.
Hmm... I'm a bit confused... What was the point/conclusion of this post? That he noticed my pressure of being so wishy-washy and switched to tryhard (sr?) mode? And does this make him scummy or what? How does it relate to his first post?
Maybe it's not "entirely bad", but still the least towny way to start the game from what I've seen. I guess it's not like it's a scumclaim or anything like that
It's a soft scumread, the point of the post being.
I tried to show the way i went thinking about the post, so someone trying to interpret it the same way can see if it makes sense to him aswell.
Hm. Ok. But I'm still a bit confused. How did he go from the first post (neutralish?) to somewhat scummy... Because his attitude changed to tryhard afterwards?
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
This at first feels neutral territory thing, questioning the entry, posing out something unnecessary from it however it is actually nothing at all. The entire thing is purely nai with everyone being capable of saying all sorts of stupid stuff like "hey 1st post tr me plx ty xoxo" at beginning of the game and we just laugh it off. How he went about making that whole post was very triggering for me, then i saw the post about Lunatic and I'm like "ok this guys is literally trying to find absurd reasons to sr ppl".
He said this later. Still a bit confusing, but I think he meant that DanelerH was throwing suspicion around with bad reasoning or something like that.
On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote: [quote]
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This, plus there's Shutter's first post:
On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote: I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
So initially, contrary to Xatalos, i didn't think this is entirely bad. I can see myself saying something like the bolded bit, on the other hand reasons for coming up to the bolded part is shitty. Like Stutter's entry is nothing different than a "First! Townread me!", its entirel nai.
So I'm thinking like hmmm he's a bit confused, then you wrote this...
On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote: I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it:
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote: [quote] Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote: [quote] I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote: [quote] Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ?
No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet.
There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer.
In this post the mindset transforms from confusion into a tryhard sr imo.
Hmm... I'm a bit confused... What was the point/conclusion of this post? That he noticed my pressure of being so wishy-washy and switched to tryhard (sr?) mode? And does this make him scummy or what? How does it relate to his first post?
Maybe it's not "entirely bad", but still the least towny way to start the game from what I've seen. I guess it's not like it's a scumclaim or anything like that
It's a soft scumread, the point of the post being.
I tried to show the way i went thinking about the post, so someone trying to interpret it the same way can see if it makes sense to him aswell.
Hm. Ok. But I'm still a bit confused. How did he go from the first post (neutralish?) to somewhat scummy... Because his attitude changed to tryhard afterwards?
I mean
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
This at first feels neutral territory thing, questioning the entry, posing out something unnecessary from it however it is actually nothing at all. The entire thing is purely nai with everyone being capable of saying all sorts of stupid stuff like "hey 1st post tr me plx ty xoxo" at beginning of the game and we just laugh it off. How he went about making that whole post was very triggering for me, then i saw the post about Lunatic and I'm like "ok this guys is literally trying to find absurd reasons to sr ppl".
He said this later. Still a bit confusing, but I think he meant that DanelerH was throwing suspicion around with bad reasoning or something like that.
yeah I read it when I went further in his filter p: what's your take on it ?
Well, I kind of agree with the argument - that DanelerH was latching on to existing pushes and added not-so-good reasons of his own. But the Lunatic push was a bit different in the sense that he actually did something original there (pushing Lunatic for new answers), so it's not so bad as I thought earlier. Conclusion: ??? :D
On September 26 2016 04:57 Superbia wrote: Anyway two wagons are always better than ofone. Ill be voting scotterino. ONLY switch from luna if hecstart voting town. Gonna sleep now
I guess that's true. It doesn't really tell too much if there's only this one giant wagon.
Meh, the vote distribution is a bit questionable, but it could just be that the scumteam is too toothless. It would kind of be preferable to have a close race, though, for future vote analysis... But I'm not really confident with scott as the second target... Well, if enough people are, that would be good enough.
On September 26 2016 05:07 Calix wrote: xanatos pls, if you want a second target then say one instead of doing "well maybe scottie but nah but if enough people think so" lol you sound like jealous
I'm jealous?
DanelerH or Jealous would prolly be the best secondary targets, but personally I prefer Lunatic atm, so this is fine.
On September 26 2016 05:07 Calix wrote: xanatos pls, if you want a second target then say one instead of doing "well maybe scottie but nah but if enough people think so" lol you sound like jealous
I'm jealous?
DanelerH or Jealous would prolly be the best secondary targets, but personally I prefer Lunatic atm, so this is fine.
On September 26 2016 05:07 Calix wrote: xanatos pls, if you want a second target then say one instead of doing "well maybe scottie but nah but if enough people think so" lol you sound like jealous
I'm jealous?
DanelerH or Jealous would prolly be the best secondary targets, but personally I prefer Lunatic atm, so this is fine.
On September 26 2016 05:06 Xatalos wrote: Meh, the vote distribution is a bit questionable, but it could just be that the scumteam is too toothless. It would kind of be preferable to have a close race, though, for future vote analysis... But I'm not really confident with scott as the second target... Well, if enough people are, that would be good enough.
I thought this a bit last night - But Skynx wants to like DYH instead - Superbia wants to lynch me instead - Ptmc has his vote on another wagon - etc.There's only three scum. We still have three people who haven't voted. They really can't defend him hard without looking really bad if he flips scum.
Yeah, I guess the wagon would be a bit too powerful to do anything without bigger risks.
On September 26 2016 04:23 DanelerH wrote: I've managed to catch up on the game and I've gone through everyone's filters. These are the reads I've gotten:
Town Calix, Jealous, Rels, Xalatos - They all seem to be actively hunting for Mafia. In addition, Calix and Rels are looking for clarification on various points to assist in this.
Leaning Town Scott - Same reason as for the above four, but there isn't as much in xyr filter to go off of.
Null Ptmc, SoulEaterQUEEN, Skynx, DoYouHas, Superbia - I can get a good read on any of them. There doesn't seem to be much indicative of them being either Town or Mafia.
Leaning Mafia Stutters - I don't like the reaction-testing xe was doing. Xe revealed it extremely quickly afterward (possibly as an attempt to cover up the original suggestion, though that might be stretching it a bit). Xe said the results of the reactions xe got were to-be-determined, but hasn't said anything about them since.
Mafia ##Vote Lunaticman
Did you read the whole thread ? There is nothing here. Why are you voting for Lunatic ? Why isn't there any basis for your reads apart from: - a generic one (they appear to be scumhunting, which TBH seems more like "they posted a lot" since Jealous is in this list) - an event that happened like 40 hours ago (the stutters reaction test)
In order: Yes, I read the thread. We've already discussed the reasons to vote for Lunatic. I didn't feel it was necessary to repeat them. Because those are the most indicative to me. Unfortunately, I don't know other things to look for. As for the reaction-test, I felt this one was important. Stutters claimed xe said something controversial to get reactions. This went nowhere, was cut off extremely quickly, and, despite having said that the reactions were going to be found later, xe hasn't said anything about the results of it.
There were plenty to discuss in all those pages though. The most recent thing for example was Calix' case on DYH ? What's your opinion on it ?
It makes sense, so I decided to look over DYH again, while keeping this case in mind. When doing so, I found a post that I want to pair with it:
On September 26 2016 04:24 DoYouHas wrote: @Calix - My read on SEQ in the post you looked at is in no way null. I described him as jumping in with both feet and actively scumhunting. Those are town attributes.
This was in response to the following portion of Calix's case: + Show Spoiler +
349 is where his SEQ read is and he's saying 'he doesn't bother me at all' but i don't know wherever that's a town or scum read (this is a theme) and this is the most wordy post he's made the entire game and that's his bigger contribution that he bargained for and its not even that good. If it's a null read then why waste time when you could talk about scum-reads (which he has not done at all lol) and if it's a town read then it's not clear at all. His priorities don't make any sense is what I am saying here.
The strange thing about this is when looking at it along with the first part of Calix's case: + Show Spoiler +
What makes me suspicious is 342 because he was like "hai Sutters I'll talk about your scum-read SEQ if you talk about ptmc" and that's weird because he isn't scum-reading ptmc (so not sure why he asked) and he's not reallg using his initiative - if you have thoughts then why not just post them instead of doing some weird 1-1 trade thing? Ithink this shows some lacking of initiative here.
This is what I was getting onto Lunatic about earlier. If you have a Town-read on someone, why not just say it and the reasons for it? Getting back to Calix's case, why offer the read in a trade? It's completely pointless.
On September 26 2016 05:06 Xatalos wrote: Meh, the vote distribution is a bit questionable, but it could just be that the scumteam is too toothless. It would kind of be preferable to have a close race, though, for future vote analysis... But I'm not really confident with scott as the second target... Well, if enough people are, that would be good enough.
I thought this a bit last night - But Skynx wants to like DYH instead - Superbia wants to lynch me instead - Ptmc has his vote on another wagon - etc.There's only three scum. We still have three people who haven't voted. They really can't defend him hard without looking really bad if he flips scum.
What are you saying here?
Pls respond
I think he just meant that the wagon is too strong to be overturned by potential scummates?
Jealous: can't really follow your "second wagon" thingy... I think it's theoretically always better to have about two wagons and the situation being town vs scum if possible for maximum benefits. This time it's not really feasible, but in general.
On September 26 2016 06:32 Xatalos wrote: Jealous: can't really follow your "second wagon" thingy... I think it's theoretically always better to have about two wagons and the situation being town vs scum if possible for maximum benefits. This time it's not really feasible, but in general.
You might be right in theory but I feel the way you went about it was off and as you just acknowledged, not feasible. I'm curious because if you know it wasn't possible, why propose it? I don't think even newbie scum would fall such an obvious trap, if that's what it was.
Dunno. Didn't really have much else to talk about. I didn't even mean it as a trap, simply to possibly force scum mistakes by making the situation more hectic and unpredictable... But yeah, it was pretty much set in stone at that point anyway.
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
Hmmmm
I guess Stutters and Skynx look a bit better after the flip... Maybe DanelerH too. Hmmm...
Lunatic didn't do too much though, so it's not too hard to fake what little he did... But at least I kind of doubt he would immediately claim his teammate as an "obvious townie"...
On September 26 2016 05:48 Jealous wrote: ## Vote Lunaticman
Want to post any other thoughts on the game Jealous?
I've posted what I deem a sufficient amount about Lunaticman prior to the vote; I actually voted for him in this thread much earlier than most of you, from what I can tell, but I forgot that I have to vote in the other thread. As far as my thoughts as I'm catching up, here's what I have (pretty loose, not on a PC until tomorrow and working until then):
Scott - In my experience Scott is always a man of few words so I don't feel his brevity is AI.
Superbia - welcome back, his type of spam might be what this game needed to be revitalized. I would like to see him speaking more specifically and referencing posts more clearly beyond just saying "I read his filter and I feel x." He also has the convenience of arriving into the thread when everything is more or less set in stone. But, because I myself am busy, I can relate.
Calix - am slightly surprised by her willingness to judge me for not being very confident or conclusive on people in D1 as I feel she knows me well enough to know that this isn't out of the norm. D2 is when I always do a lot of work, so I don't mind that you guys (particularly Rels) are giving me some crap over being soft-spoken because that will all change when I have concrete things to work off of and tie to posts.
Daneler - might be riding on the good feels he got from my posts before I became inactive, but he should have picked up on the general turn of town's opinion on me and the fact that it is reasonable I'm a vacuum. I agree with Rels that I wasn't a big fan of his list post.
Rels - staying on the ball and being assertive with his position, which I like. His going after me is forgivable because as I said it is justifiable and will not be the case come D2.
Xan - it's awkward for me to look back on my phone to make sure that it was him trying to create a second train, but if it was indeed him I'd have to say it seems like a stupid thing to attempt so openly and at this juncture. Stupidity isn't necessarily AI but in theory, taking votes off Lunaticman and creating the potential for shennanies (which are popular on TL and thus unfortunately not always AI)... Could be a dumb scum move. If it was not Xan who did this, attribute the same reasoning to whoever else it was that initiated this thought, and apologies to Xan.
Stutter - still haven't seen anything from him that would make me change my mind about him being my #2 lynch pick.
Nothing that I recall off the top of my head sticks out, but I'm not fully caught up so maybe I'll add some more as I walk to the store before EoD.
Hmm. Looking back on this, it does seem pretty odd. I mean... The scumread(?) on me is apparently based on the fact that I entertained the thought of having two wagons rather than just all votes on Lunatic for more useful vote analysis (no matter Lunatic's alignment, this vote distribution wouldn't tell much regarding the voters' alignments at that rate). However... Jealous feels like he already knows Lunatic's alignment here and prepares for future pushes a bit prematurely... I mean... The whole premise is that any vote off of Lunatic = scummy, despite the fact that Lunatic's alignment was unknown, it wouldn't be scummy even if Lunatic was scum (provided that he would still have the majority of votes) and I wasn't even prepared to vote Scott personally as the second wagon like had been suggested... It's just an odd accusation that feels somehow like Jealous knew what Lunatic would flip beforehand and prepared based on that knowledge. Hm.
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
Hm, yeah, I guess this is one of the worst votes on Lunatic. Reminds me of how I voted on my scummate with the wording "It's too bad but looks like he's scum" a long time ago :D
I wonder, is the only reasoning here that he went away later in the day?
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
Well, to be fair, DYH did already list Lunatic as potential scum earlier.
On September 26 2016 18:19 ptmc wrote: In my mind, there is a 50/50 on wether stutters is scum purely based on lunatics play. Stutters drops a lot of fluff into the thread, then disappears to the bar. He gets some flak for it and slight scum leans by at least Calix.
Case a) Lunatic sees his scum buddy taking weak hits and wants to push him into a town pile
Case b) Lunatic wants to town read someone so that he himself is townread
Does anyone see other possible causes for Lunatics action? Because to me, case b) makes little sense. Case a) would make Stutters scum.
Hm. Personally I think it's not very likely that his only strong read would be on a teammate... It's kind of bound to cause difficulties if he had to explain the read and stuff.
On September 26 2016 18:19 ptmc wrote: In my mind, there is a 50/50 on wether stutters is scum purely based on lunatics play. Stutters drops a lot of fluff into the thread, then disappears to the bar. He gets some flak for it and slight scum leans by at least Calix.
Case a) Lunatic sees his scum buddy taking weak hits and wants to push him into a town pile
Case b) Lunatic wants to town read someone so that he himself is townread
Does anyone see other possible causes for Lunatics action? Because to me, case b) makes little sense. Case a) would make Stutters scum.
Scum very rarely hard townread their teammates, especially when the teammate in question is scumread by some people, like it was the case. Stutters is like 99% town.
On September 26 2016 05:48 Jealous wrote: ## Vote Lunaticman
Want to post any other thoughts on the game Jealous?
I've posted what I deem a sufficient amount about Lunaticman prior to the vote; I actually voted for him in this thread much earlier than most of you, from what I can tell, but I forgot that I have to vote in the other thread. As far as my thoughts as I'm catching up, here's what I have (pretty loose, not on a PC until tomorrow and working until then):
Scott - In my experience Scott is always a man of few words so I don't feel his brevity is AI.
Superbia - welcome back, his type of spam might be what this game needed to be revitalized. I would like to see him speaking more specifically and referencing posts more clearly beyond just saying "I read his filter and I feel x." He also has the convenience of arriving into the thread when everything is more or less set in stone. But, because I myself am busy, I can relate.
Calix - am slightly surprised by her willingness to judge me for not being very confident or conclusive on people in D1 as I feel she knows me well enough to know that this isn't out of the norm. D2 is when I always do a lot of work, so I don't mind that you guys (particularly Rels) are giving me some crap over being soft-spoken because that will all change when I have concrete things to work off of and tie to posts.
Daneler - might be riding on the good feels he got from my posts before I became inactive, but he should have picked up on the general turn of town's opinion on me and the fact that it is reasonable I'm a vacuum. I agree with Rels that I wasn't a big fan of his list post.
Rels - staying on the ball and being assertive with his position, which I like. His going after me is forgivable because as I said it is justifiable and will not be the case come D2.
Xan - it's awkward for me to look back on my phone to make sure that it was him trying to create a second train, but if it was indeed him I'd have to say it seems like a stupid thing to attempt so openly and at this juncture. Stupidity isn't necessarily AI but in theory, taking votes off Lunaticman and creating the potential for shennanies (which are popular on TL and thus unfortunately not always AI)... Could be a dumb scum move. If it was not Xan who did this, attribute the same reasoning to whoever else it was that initiated this thought, and apologies to Xan.
Stutter - still haven't seen anything from him that would make me change my mind about him being my #2 lynch pick.
Nothing that I recall off the top of my head sticks out, but I'm not fully caught up so maybe I'll add some more as I walk to the store before EoD.
Hmm. Looking back on this, it does seem pretty odd. I mean... The scumread(?) on me is apparently based on the fact that I entertained the thought of having two wagons rather than just all votes on Lunatic for more useful vote analysis (no matter Lunatic's alignment, this vote distribution wouldn't tell much regarding the voters' alignments at that rate). However... Jealous feels like he already knows Lunatic's alignment here and prepares for future pushes a bit prematurely... I mean... The whole premise is that any vote off of Lunatic = scummy, despite the fact that Lunatic's alignment was unknown, it wouldn't be scummy even if Lunatic was scum (provided that he would still have the majority of votes) and I wasn't even prepared to vote Scott personally as the second wagon like had been suggested... It's just an odd accusation that feels somehow like Jealous knew what Lunatic would flip beforehand and prepared based on that knowledge. Hm.
1. You summarized my point just now, again. You contradicted yourself within one sentence by sayong that you're pushing for a second train even though you know it wouldn't accomplish anything. It makes no sense. I don't see why we're revisiting this from a logical standpoint. I still think it was a dumb idea regardless of outcome.
2. Assuming I have prior knowledge of Lunatic's alignment is a stretch at best. He was my #1 scum read and I was one of the first people who voted for him, even before Calix according to ptmc's summary (I know, technically I didn't vote for him in the thread, I had forgotten that I had to). I guess being confident in your scum read and not wanting people to take votes off of him = suspect behavior in your book? Please.
3. I explained that stupidity isn't AI but such a move could be at the hands of a stupid scum. I don't see how you could disagree with this, given that you yourself admit the plan was pointless... but then again, given that you've said something stupid once means that it could happen again.
1) I guess you're just fundamentally misunderstanding or misrepresenting my point. When did I even push a second wagon? I only said that it wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea, as Superbia was already going for it anyway, even if I disagreed with the target (Scott). I didn't even consider switching my own vote or pushing for another target, as Lunatic was my first pick. But it definitely wouldn't have been a bad thing if another wagon gained a bit of steam on its own weight, since on the chance that Lunatic (or the new wagon) was scum, it could possibly reveal the whole scumteam while at it (as had happened in one game I played over at Vendetta Strada and the scumteam went into a full panic mode when there was a town vs scum lynch).
2) Another interpretation would be that you had the knowledge of him being scum and went a bit overboard by basing your other reads on him already flipping scum. I never said that wanting to lynch him was bad, but the way you went about making your other reads as if he had already flipped scum did look bad.
3) I guess anything is possible. But is it likely? Even if I had pushed a secondary wagon (I didn't), it would have only been slightly scummy at best since Lunatic was pretty much dead at that point no matter what (7+ votes on Lunatic and most people AFK), so what would it achieve from scum perspective... You might ask, then what would it achieve from town perspective? As I explained, it's always better to have a bit of action closer to the end rather than a passive single wagon. Under pressure, scum make mistakes, whereas definitely not in this kind of situation. It's stupid to assume that the scumteam would be a perfect machine that would never make mistakes. It's not a low chance that some scum would make a stupid vote to try saving Lunatic or something.
On September 26 2016 23:47 ptmc wrote: I went through the Lunatic trainwreck again and tried to objectively sum up what happend chronologically, open for "unbiased" read:
Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with
On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see.
Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where I give my reasons why I think a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls me out because ptmc "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic.
SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic
Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today" Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway
This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw.
Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
Next post, scott votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him.
Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like his two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work
And my comments for it, marked in red stuff i think is scummy, in green things i think is towny (obviously in the light of the successful lynch) with some comments centered where i needed to say some more
Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post
this is maybe not red, but at least weird
Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous)
again, at least weird, since it had obviously already sparked discussion
DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic
I guess this is Lunatics blue role claim on stutters working out as intended?
Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with
On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see.
Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where ptmc gives his reasons why he thinks a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls ptmc out because he "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it
Mafia feeling out the waters if it is bussing time?
Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic.
SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic
Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today"
This looks so much like bussing, especially with him ignoring those posts previously
Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ
still no word on lunatic except the earlier "no comment"
Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway
This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw.
Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate
Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic
i will not give green "points" from here on for voting lunatic, since the train has reached critical mass already
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
Next post, scott votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him.
Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like scotts two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work
Take home message says scott had access to very bad posts by Lunatic way before he goes afk, but choses to ignore them. Only when the train has become unstoppable for mafia he "revisits" them and now they are strong enough to lynch for.
Other reads from the Lunaticman-Lynch: solid town: DanelerH Calix
town lean: Jealous Rels SEQ superbia (for actually noticing scott)
inconsistent: Xatalos Skynx
scum leans (lynch all day err'day) Scott, stutters, dyh
That's a nice list of the events. I think it's pretty accurate. Didn't at least see anything glaringly wrong. Well, not really sure why me being against discussing blue roles is in red there, but *shrug*, I can live with that.
Hm. Not entirely sure why Skynx is on the same level as me based on that list?
I guess it's fair to say that DanelerH looks quite a bit better than before and scott/DYH worse. Hm, I agree that Stutters' reactions to Lunatic are oddly distant, but wouldn't put him on the same level especially considering Lunatic's posts about Stutters.
On September 26 2016 23:47 ptmc wrote: I went through the Lunatic trainwreck again and tried to objectively sum up what happend chronologically, open for "unbiased" read:
Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with
On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see.
Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where I give my reasons why I think a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls me out because ptmc "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic.
SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic
Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today" Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway
This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw.
Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
Next post, scott votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him.
Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like his two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work
And my comments for it, marked in red stuff i think is scummy, in green things i think is towny (obviously in the light of the successful lynch) with some comments centered where i needed to say some more
Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post
this is maybe not red, but at least weird
Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous)
again, at least weird, since it had obviously already sparked discussion
DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic
I guess this is Lunatics blue role claim on stutters working out as intended?
Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with
On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see.
Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where ptmc gives his reasons why he thinks a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls ptmc out because he "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it
Mafia feeling out the waters if it is bussing time?
Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic.
SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic
Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today"
This looks so much like bussing, especially with him ignoring those posts previously
Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ
still no word on lunatic except the earlier "no comment"
Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway
This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw.
Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate
Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic
i will not give green "points" from here on for voting lunatic, since the train has reached critical mass already
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
Next post, scott votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him.
Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like scotts two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work
Take home message says scott had access to very bad posts by Lunatic way before he goes afk, but choses to ignore them. Only when the train has become unstoppable for mafia he "revisits" them and now they are strong enough to lynch for.
Other reads from the Lunaticman-Lynch: solid town: DanelerH Calix
town lean: Jealous Rels SEQ superbia (for actually noticing scott)
inconsistent: Xatalos Skynx
scum leans (lynch all day err'day) Scott, stutters, dyh
This is quite impressive p: in particular this made me reread Jealous post where he called Lunatic's post retarded. It's very true that it's a strong word to use on your teammate so it is a town indicator for Jealous. Stutters is still 99% town because of how Lunatic treated him. And Superbia did like nothing this game yet, if scott is scum I agree that he's a unlikely partner but until that happens he's not town. Other than that, this list is pretty good
Slight disagreements..
1) It's pretty safe to call a scummate "retarded". Basically it just downplays their ability to play, making them less suspicious if they do something stupid/anti-town. 2) Lunatic's posting about Stutters would make little sense if they're teammates, but Stutters himself didn't react to Lunatic in a way that would raise much confidence, so.... I'd say Stutters is still a bad lynch, but not sure town. 3) True, he's not done much, but he's been very blatant about it... He seemed pretty relaxed when Lunatic was heading for the slaughter too.
On September 26 2016 23:47 ptmc wrote: I went through the Lunatic trainwreck again and tried to objectively sum up what happend chronologically, open for "unbiased" read:
Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with
On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see.
Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where I give my reasons why I think a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls me out because ptmc "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic.
SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic
Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today" Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway
This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw.
Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
Next post, scott votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him.
Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like his two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work
And my comments for it, marked in red stuff i think is scummy, in green things i think is towny (obviously in the light of the successful lynch) with some comments centered where i needed to say some more
Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post
this is maybe not red, but at least weird
Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous)
again, at least weird, since it had obviously already sparked discussion
DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic
I guess this is Lunatics blue role claim on stutters working out as intended?
Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with
On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see.
Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where ptmc gives his reasons why he thinks a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls ptmc out because he "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it
Mafia feeling out the waters if it is bussing time?
Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic.
SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic
Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today"
This looks so much like bussing, especially with him ignoring those posts previously
Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ
still no word on lunatic except the earlier "no comment"
Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway
This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw.
Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate
Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic
i will not give green "points" from here on for voting lunatic, since the train has reached critical mass already
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
Next post, scott votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him.
Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like scotts two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work
Take home message says scott had access to very bad posts by Lunatic way before he goes afk, but choses to ignore them. Only when the train has become unstoppable for mafia he "revisits" them and now they are strong enough to lynch for.
Other reads from the Lunaticman-Lynch: solid town: DanelerH Calix
town lean: Jealous Rels SEQ superbia (for actually noticing scott)
inconsistent: Xatalos Skynx
scum leans (lynch all day err'day) Scott, stutters, dyh
This is quite impressive p: in particular this made me reread Jealous post where he called Lunatic's post retarded. It's very true that it's a strong word to use on your teammate so it is a town indicator for Jealous. Stutters is still 99% town because of how Lunatic treated him. And Superbia did like nothing this game yet, if scott is scum I agree that he's a unlikely partner but until that happens he's not town. Other than that, this list is pretty good
Slight disagreements..
1) It's pretty safe to call a scummate "retarded". Basically it just downplays their ability to play, making them less suspicious if they do something stupid/anti-town. 2) Lunatic's posting about Stutters would make little sense if they're teammates, but Stutters himself didn't react to Lunatic in a way that would raise much confidence, so.... I'd say Stutters is still a bad lynch, but not sure town. 3) True, he's not done much, but he's been very blatant about it... He seemed pretty relaxed when Lunatic was heading for the slaughter too.
On second thoughts, he did seem to hesitate about going for a counter-push on scott or not. It would fit a scum motivation if scott is town, but that's not certain at all.
On September 26 2016 23:47 ptmc wrote: I went through the Lunatic trainwreck again and tried to objectively sum up what happend chronologically, open for "unbiased" read:
Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with
On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see.
Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where I give my reasons why I think a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls me out because ptmc "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic.
SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic
Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today" Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway
This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw.
Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
Next post, scott votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him.
Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like his two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work
And my comments for it, marked in red stuff i think is scummy, in green things i think is towny (obviously in the light of the successful lynch) with some comments centered where i needed to say some more
Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post
this is maybe not red, but at least weird
Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous)
again, at least weird, since it had obviously already sparked discussion
DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic
I guess this is Lunatics blue role claim on stutters working out as intended?
Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with
On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see.
Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where ptmc gives his reasons why he thinks a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls ptmc out because he "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it
Mafia feeling out the waters if it is bussing time?
Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic.
SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic
Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today"
This looks so much like bussing, especially with him ignoring those posts previously
Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ
still no word on lunatic except the earlier "no comment"
Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway
This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw.
Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate
Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic
i will not give green "points" from here on for voting lunatic, since the train has reached critical mass already
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
Next post, scott votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him.
Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like scotts two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work
Take home message says scott had access to very bad posts by Lunatic way before he goes afk, but choses to ignore them. Only when the train has become unstoppable for mafia he "revisits" them and now they are strong enough to lynch for.
Other reads from the Lunaticman-Lynch: solid town: DanelerH Calix
town lean: Jealous Rels SEQ superbia (for actually noticing scott)
inconsistent: Xatalos Skynx
scum leans (lynch all day err'day) Scott, stutters, dyh
This is quite impressive p: in particular this made me reread Jealous post where he called Lunatic's post retarded. It's very true that it's a strong word to use on your teammate so it is a town indicator for Jealous. Stutters is still 99% town because of how Lunatic treated him. And Superbia did like nothing this game yet, if scott is scum I agree that he's a unlikely partner but until that happens he's not town. Other than that, this list is pretty good
Slight disagreements..
1) It's pretty safe to call a scummate "retarded". Basically it just downplays their ability to play, making them less suspicious if they do something stupid/anti-town. 2) Lunatic's posting about Stutters would make little sense if they're teammates, but Stutters himself didn't react to Lunatic in a way that would raise much confidence, so.... I'd say Stutters is still a bad lynch, but not sure town. 3) True, he's not done much, but he's been very blatant about it... He seemed pretty relaxed when Lunatic was heading for the slaughter too.
On second thoughts, he did seem to hesitate about going for a counter-push on scott or not. It would fit a scum motivation if scott is town, but that's not certain at all.
To clarify: IF scott is town, Superbia looks worse, but that's an if.
On September 26 2016 23:47 ptmc wrote: I went through the Lunatic trainwreck again and tried to objectively sum up what happend chronologically, open for "unbiased" read:
Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with
On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see.
Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where I give my reasons why I think a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls me out because ptmc "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic.
SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic
Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today" Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway
This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw.
Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
Next post, scott votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him.
Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like his two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work
And my comments for it, marked in red stuff i think is scummy, in green things i think is towny (obviously in the light of the successful lynch) with some comments centered where i needed to say some more
Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post
this is maybe not red, but at least weird
Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous)
again, at least weird, since it had obviously already sparked discussion
DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic
I guess this is Lunatics blue role claim on stutters working out as intended?
Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with
On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see.
Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where ptmc gives his reasons why he thinks a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls ptmc out because he "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it
Mafia feeling out the waters if it is bussing time?
Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic.
SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic
Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today"
This looks so much like bussing, especially with him ignoring those posts previously
Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ
still no word on lunatic except the earlier "no comment"
Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway
This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw.
Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate
Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic
i will not give green "points" from here on for voting lunatic, since the train has reached critical mass already
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
Next post, scott votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him.
Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like scotts two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work
Take home message says scott had access to very bad posts by Lunatic way before he goes afk, but choses to ignore them. Only when the train has become unstoppable for mafia he "revisits" them and now they are strong enough to lynch for.
Other reads from the Lunaticman-Lynch: solid town: DanelerH Calix
town lean: Jealous Rels SEQ superbia (for actually noticing scott)
inconsistent: Xatalos Skynx
scum leans (lynch all day err'day) Scott, stutters, dyh
This is quite impressive p: in particular this made me reread Jealous post where he called Lunatic's post retarded. It's very true that it's a strong word to use on your teammate so it is a town indicator for Jealous. Stutters is still 99% town because of how Lunatic treated him. And Superbia did like nothing this game yet, if scott is scum I agree that he's a unlikely partner but until that happens he's not town. Other than that, this list is pretty good
Slight disagreements..
1) It's pretty safe to call a scummate "retarded". Basically it just downplays their ability to play, making them less suspicious if they do something stupid/anti-town. 2) Lunatic's posting about Stutters would make little sense if they're teammates, but Stutters himself didn't react to Lunatic in a way that would raise much confidence, so.... I'd say Stutters is still a bad lynch, but not sure town. 3) True, he's not done much, but he's been very blatant about it... He seemed pretty relaxed when Lunatic was heading for the slaughter too.
On second thoughts, he did seem to hesitate about going for a counter-push on scott or not. It would fit a scum motivation if scott is town, but that's not certain at all.
It's certain to me that I'm town, yo
I also think PT's and Dandel's posts were pretty good as well.
I swear every time I lynch mafia in a game (I think only once when I got Wile. E with that RB track) every one thinks I bussed. It's so annoying
On September 26 2016 23:47 ptmc wrote: I went through the Lunatic trainwreck again and tried to objectively sum up what happend chronologically, open for "unbiased" read:
Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with
On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see.
Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where I give my reasons why I think a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls me out because ptmc "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic.
SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic
Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today" Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway
This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw.
Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
Next post, scott votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him.
Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like his two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work
And my comments for it, marked in red stuff i think is scummy, in green things i think is towny (obviously in the light of the successful lynch) with some comments centered where i needed to say some more
Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post
this is maybe not red, but at least weird
Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous)
again, at least weird, since it had obviously already sparked discussion
DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic
I guess this is Lunatics blue role claim on stutters working out as intended?
Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with
On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see.
Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where ptmc gives his reasons why he thinks a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls ptmc out because he "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it
Mafia feeling out the waters if it is bussing time?
Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic.
SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic
Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today"
This looks so much like bussing, especially with him ignoring those posts previously
Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ
still no word on lunatic except the earlier "no comment"
Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway
This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw.
Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate
Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic
i will not give green "points" from here on for voting lunatic, since the train has reached critical mass already
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
Next post, scott votes Lunatic
On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him.
Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like scotts two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work
Take home message says scott had access to very bad posts by Lunatic way before he goes afk, but choses to ignore them. Only when the train has become unstoppable for mafia he "revisits" them and now they are strong enough to lynch for.
Other reads from the Lunaticman-Lynch: solid town: DanelerH Calix
town lean: Jealous Rels SEQ superbia (for actually noticing scott)
inconsistent: Xatalos Skynx
scum leans (lynch all day err'day) Scott, stutters, dyh
That's a nice list of the events. I think it's pretty accurate. Didn't at least see anything glaringly wrong. Well, not really sure why me being against discussing blue roles is in red there, but *shrug*, I can live with that.
Hm. Not entirely sure why Skynx is on the same level as me based on that list?
I guess it's fair to say that DanelerH looks quite a bit better than before and scott/DYH worse. Hm, I agree that Stutters' reactions to Lunatic are oddly distant, but wouldn't put him on the same level especially considering Lunatic's posts about Stutters.
It just strikes me as odd that you "fell" for Lunatics "he's a blue role, lets stop talking about it" defense. You think skynx should be more towny or more scummy? And if we disregard Lunatics post on Stutters, since it is basically pure WIFOM?
The correct way would have been to pressure him for his other reads and also why he townread Stutters on meta, not to ask why Stutters was a blue.... Considering the worst scenario where he was town and Stutters actually a blue role. But in hindsight, it's easy to say that he was just scum and it didn't matter either way... They didn't even kill Stutters.
Superbia kill was unexpected, especially since he was getting heat during the night. Maybe he WIFOMed himself to death? lol
Skynx felt like he should have been less towny on that list since I think he only had one (barely) "green action" and many reds, while I had pretty much an equal amount of both (and I don't even agree it was anti-town to stop blue discussion there - I'd do it again with the same information as I had back then).
Stutters doesn't look good if we disregard Lunatic filter, but because Lunatic treated him like an obvtown (much more indicative of him actually being town than a teammate) he'a quite more likely town. There's no sense in disregarding Lunatic anyway.
In any case, there are other people who look worse. Next post will be soon(TM) once I'm home.
On September 28 2016 00:01 Tictock wrote: Ok I'm still about 20 pages behind but I gotta take a break and go run a couple errands so I wanted to drop some thoughts.
You guys got some great interactions from Lunatic, and based on them I think we can be nearly certain that Skynx, Rels, and DandelH are town for the way they started pressure on Lunatic. Stutters also kinda got spewed town, though tbh I kinda doubt his early game play comes from scum anyhow.
Calix also brought up some stuff early on about Lunatic, but the associative read here isn't as strong as the others. I'm tempted to think Calix is town for other reasons though.
On September 27 2016 20:53 Tictock wrote: Ok almost done with other stuff and I'll sink a couple hours into reading. Tempted to start out by giving ptmc a quick and dirty townread for that little series of posts on pg 40 though.
That instinct was spot on.
I think I've also got a decent scum read based on associative stuff with Lunatic, but I want to get fully caught up before I get into that.
Could you elaborate on that part? I was just reading Skynx and his filter suggested the opposite to me.
To clarify: he did mention that Lunatic's first post was bad, but after that didn't do anything about Lunatic during D1. Lunatic's first post wasn't really relevant to lynching him anyway.
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
You could look at it as a Lunatic push, but it's really not. It's just a random comment with no follow-up or relevance whatsoever. Could be distancing, could be a genuine throwaway comment, nothing conclusive either way. It was just a forgotten line in a forgotten post.
But after that he basically ignores everything Lunatic-related, only making these comments that can't be exactly called as anti-Lunatic:
On September 25 2016 04:37 Skynx wrote: What makes you so soure Stutters pr Lunatic?
On September 26 2016 02:21 Xatalos wrote: Well, actually there's also a third scenario, where he's town and simply messed up by making a blue read, including it in his read list for some reason (without specifically saying that he thought he was a blue) and then saying it out loud in the heat of the moment. I guess that's a bit more likely than the scenario #2 after all since he's a newbie... But scenario #1 seems the most credible one, I guess. Hm. Any opinions?
Man I somehow feel like Luna is just misinformed town trying to cover up mistake of being lazy and saying he's blue.
AND then there's the worst part:
On September 26 2016 03:38 Skynx wrote: Fuck me actually i dont think I'll have any time at all
I'm an ok lynch if u guys feel like it sry i thought i'd have more time to play but im kinda moving houses and uni begins tomorrow.
If not tho my top sr is DYH. His chain of questions few pages back really don't accomplish anything at all. It really looks like he's farming town points while doinh nothing.
On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote: I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it:
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote: Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.
I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.
On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote: [quote] Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^
Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.
I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.
As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)
Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.
Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:
On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote: [quote] This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata.
Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.
Stutters: [quote] My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play.
Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.
It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote: [quote]
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?
Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?
Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?
If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote: [quote]
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote: [quote]
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ?
No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet.
There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer.
The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded.
It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum?
On September 25 2016 10:53 DoYouHas wrote: So is it bad enough that you would want to lynch him or do you currently have a stronger scum read on someone else currently?
I mean these supposed to make it look like he's pressuring Jealous for explanations but he sort of responds and nothing from DYH regarding his stance on Luna.
Then he switches to SEQ, stating bunch of thoughts which actually doesn't say anything.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond.
Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also.
SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it.
Like there is not a final verdict, he says he doesnt bother him then bunch of thoughts filling the air and thats it.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond.
Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also.
SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it.
All of his statements are from around that time. Not to mention the apologetic/cautious nature. Just kind of screams first time scum to me.
I want to see what you are seeing. I think you are likely town. Can you walk me through it like I'm an idiot? Where is his apologetic/cautious nature evident?
This is kinda more evident of all tho, when he pushes Jealous for avoiding answering questions and he himself disappeara after this kind of questioning.
Yeh my top lynch target i guess, all of this above feels like activity for sake of activity to me.
Thats best i can do from phone guys, sory for being afk so far this game Hopefully i can pick it up later on.
This post is basically saying just "lynch me or DYH". Nothing about Lunatic at this point. It would make a lot of sense if Skynx was just a Mafia Goon or something and it would suck to lose the Roleblocker, so it would be even better to kill himself than Lunatic? Naturally he votes for DYH though.
I guess this means DYH and Skynx probably aren't scum together though. But nothing really makes Skynx town and a lot of things fit with him being Lunatic's partner.
1) Mostly ignoring Lunatic-related events in the thread. 2) No real stance on him except slight reluctance to lynch him. 3) Ultimately preferring to even lynch himself over Lunatic....?
DYH is a bit in the same boat (reluctance to lynch Lunatic and slightly defending him throughout D1). I can relate to his play more than to Skynx though. DYH is basically saying that Lunatic made an anti-town play and "shut down" due to the pressure, but it doesn't necessarily make him scum, even if he's still a reasonable lynch. It's not far from how I thought at the time, so I can give DYH a bit of lenience. Well, it doesn't look good that DYH only agrees to vote on Lunatic once it's already a done deal, but I can at least see some townie potential there unlike really with Skynx...
I mean - DYH's stance is sensible, in a way, even though it's wrong. But Skynx's stance just doesn't make much sense from town perspective (Lunatic's intro is bad -> no follow-up ever? no real stance on Lunatic events? reluctance to lynch him even more so than himself being lynched....?).
On September 28 2016 01:21 Tictock wrote: Nah Skynx is town brah.
Mafia very rarely call out their teammates like that so early, even if it was somewhat throwaway.
You are right he never pushed Lunatic very hard, so it's not so weird that he doesn't mention him in that big post you quoted. Besides that post is overall actually pretty decent with the points he brings about DYH.
I also have a hard time buying that one of Luna's scum mates would offer themselves up like you are implying while also making a halfway decent case on someone at the same time, and never try to cash in on any bus potential.
Wouldn't really say that, I've seen it happen. It's pretty "cheap" to make some forgettable comments at the start of the game. It could just be an easy distancing plot - no cost associated, maybe someone will townread him for it later. He never posted against Lunatic or the like again so it really was throwaway....
I somehow doubt he would have gained anything from voting Lunatic at that point. He had already been reluctant and didn't have a reason to vote for him other than bandwagoning. Might as well vote some random target?
On September 28 2016 01:06 Xatalos wrote: Ok, first there's this post:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
You could look at it as a Lunatic push, but it's really not. It's just a random comment with no follow-up or relevance whatsoever. Could be distancing, could be a genuine throwaway comment, nothing conclusive either way. It was just a forgotten line in a forgotten post.
But after that he basically ignores everything Lunatic-related, only making these comments that can't be exactly called as anti-Lunatic:
On September 25 2016 04:37 Skynx wrote: What makes you so soure Stutters pr Lunatic?
On September 26 2016 02:33 Skynx wrote:
On September 26 2016 02:21 Xatalos wrote: Well, actually there's also a third scenario, where he's town and simply messed up by making a blue read, including it in his read list for some reason (without specifically saying that he thought he was a blue) and then saying it out loud in the heat of the moment. I guess that's a bit more likely than the scenario #2 after all since he's a newbie... But scenario #1 seems the most credible one, I guess. Hm. Any opinions?
Man I somehow feel like Luna is just misinformed town trying to cover up mistake of being lazy and saying he's blue.
AND then there's the worst part:
On September 26 2016 03:38 Skynx wrote: Fuck me actually i dont think I'll have any time at all
I'm an ok lynch if u guys feel like it sry i thought i'd have more time to play but im kinda moving houses and uni begins tomorrow.
If not tho my top sr is DYH. His chain of questions few pages back really don't accomplish anything at all. It really looks like he's farming town points while doinh nothing.
On September 25 2016 10:16 DoYouHas wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:15 Jealous wrote:
On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote: I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it:
On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote: [quote]
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.
Please explain
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote: [quote]
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:
On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote: [quote]
That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.
Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ?
No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet.
There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer.
The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded.
It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum?
On September 25 2016 10:53 DoYouHas wrote: So is it bad enough that you would want to lynch him or do you currently have a stronger scum read on someone else currently?
I mean these supposed to make it look like he's pressuring Jealous for explanations but he sort of responds and nothing from DYH regarding his stance on Luna.
Then he switches to SEQ, stating bunch of thoughts which actually doesn't say anything.
On September 25 2016 11:02 DoYouHas wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond.
Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also.
SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it.
Like there is not a final verdict, he says he doesnt bother him then bunch of thoughts filling the air and thats it.
On September 25 2016 11:35 DoYouHas wrote:
On September 25 2016 11:29 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 25 2016 11:02 DoYouHas wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond.
Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also.
SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it.
All of his statements are from around that time. Not to mention the apologetic/cautious nature. Just kind of screams first time scum to me.
I want to see what you are seeing. I think you are likely town. Can you walk me through it like I'm an idiot? Where is his apologetic/cautious nature evident?
This is kinda more evident of all tho, when he pushes Jealous for avoiding answering questions and he himself disappeara after this kind of questioning.
Yeh my top lynch target i guess, all of this above feels like activity for sake of activity to me.
Thats best i can do from phone guys, sory for being afk so far this game Hopefully i can pick it up later on.
This post is basically saying just "lynch me or DYH". Nothing about Lunatic at this point. It would make a lot of sense if Skynx was just a Mafia Goon or something and it would suck to lose the Roleblocker, so it would be even better to kill himself than Lunatic? Naturally he votes for DYH though.
I guess this means DYH and Skynx probably aren't scum together though. But nothing really makes Skynx town and a lot of things fit with him being Lunatic's partner.
1) Mostly ignoring Lunatic-related events in the thread. 2) No real stance on him except slight reluctance to lynch him. 3) Ultimately preferring to even lynch himself over Lunatic....?
Moving on....
My dear Xatalos,
1) You are accusing me of ignoring Lunatic-related events when you're the one trying to shut down blue discussion the moment it started.
2) The WORST PART: You are implying me focussing some one else than scum makes me scum, however half the game is now scumreading DYH. Even Rels of all people who initially tought it was bs. Do you think DYH is town in this case? Do you think my reads on DYH is bullshit? If you not, how does having a logical case on someone else when another mafia dies makes me scum?
3) Mafia 100000% busses here, i don't even have to explain this. Lunatic was unsaveable, he slipped.
4) That post is not saying "lynch me or DYH". I was offski most of D1 so town would be rightfull to lynch me so it was me showing some activity in the short amount of time I had. I made my stance about Luna earlier as u quoted, no need to repeat in every post something Luna related because he flipped scum.
5) Your entire strategy suggesting me sacrificing myself for Luna I have no idea how someone can see that here. So I was afk on purpose to save my scumbuddy on EoD by suggesting myself as a policy lynch???
6) So the whole thing is mostly associative that now Super is dead and Luna is scum and I'm the only off-wagon. Nice try.
Verdict: Scum This is not a push town would make. He's basically invalid and wrong about every point made and reaching conclusions that are totally irrelevant to what he quotes as a reasoning. Big up tho, you made my life easier cuz now i don't have to check your filter to conclude you're highly likely scum.
OMGUS mucho
How do my own doings relate to what you did? If I did something "bad", it doesn't atone for you.
DYH isn't confirmed scum. If he were, then you would look somewhat better of course, but that's not the case, and can't be the basis of my read on you.
Like I said, bussing at that point wouldn't have done you any good. In fact, it could have backfired, like could have happened with DYH/scott if one of them is scum.
Well, have fun pushing me if you're scum. If you're town, I'd suggest something more productive.
On September 28 2016 01:57 Tictock wrote: Well I'm still a bit behind, but I did get through D1 and I might as well post this now.
I think Xatalos is scum. Reading through the game I had the distinct impression that he waited as long as possible to discuss Lunatic, and when he did was always very wishy-washy about it.
This was the post that first made me raise an eyebrow.
On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
This, plus there's Shutter's first post:
On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote: I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
Probably the worst post in the game so far (and definitely the worst of the opening posts). It's a wishy-washy suspicion riding on already existing suspicions. Pretty much the safest possible suspicion to make as scum, and leaves you with plenty of options to proceed (vote for him if it gains steam or forget it if not). Even the tone is so passive and uninvolved..
This was well after Lunatic's entrance and after he had fallen under some pressure. I suppose part of this is simply a "What game is he reading?" sort of reaction because this was far from any of the posts that I found interesting.
What really struck me though was that this post implied that Xat had caught-up with the game, but besides asking Rel's his opinion and talking about blues there is literally no mention of Lunatic's posts until here. Which is especially Ironic given Xat was just accusing Skynx of having "no real stance on Lunatic events?" and that was literally my first thought about him while reading.
It's worth noting his later posts as he decides to vote Lunatic as well. + Show Spoiler +
Sorry not 100% these are in order, these start on pg 3 of Xata's filter
On September 25 2016 17:20 Calix wrote: Actually Lunatic looks like a better lynch with how he's reacting to the pitiful amount of pressure he's getting and aside from "over-reacts to pressure and is making bad posts out of frustration" I'm confused as to why he's acting like this in the first place. I haven't seen anything explicitly townie from him either.
Anyway, he says he's one of the more productive players - if that's productive then this game is a spam-fest. He also claims he's building a town circle which I have yet to see on both points. (his weird-ass town-read on Stutters doesn't count) I recall him saying he was going to investigate the first few posters or something - has he followed up on that?
With regards to TPR-hunting, again, that's anti-town because scum would just post their TPR-reads into their private chat. It's also insanely retarded to do as town and if Lunatic thought that Stutters was blue then he should have just defended Stutters using his posts to avoid this. I have no idea what he was trying to achieve there but I guarantee that the execution was terrible.
This read is shit because a lot of his actions require a crapload of WIFOM to decipher. His mindset doesn't make any bloody sense to me and I don't see a coherent explanation for his actions for town or scum, so I'd like to clear that up.
This reasoning is similar with Daneler to an extent as I am finding him difficult to place. However he is less disruptive to the chat compared to Lunatic.
Yeah, that whole situation seems pretty stupid from any perspective. No reason to out a blue read in any form as town (even in the form of a non-reasoned strong town read -> pretty obviously a blue read), but no reason to start talking about that as scum either (just putting negative attention on himself for no reason). I guess it was some panic decision under pressure. Maybe leaning scum after all because why would he panic so much as town under a little pressure? Hmmm. Well, let's say he would be a lynch candidate, definitely over Stutter.
On September 25 2016 18:23 Lunaticman wrote: I wonder how not wanting to state a read because it will reveal a blue role is equal towards being mafia. The reason for not saying anything is because that is based o information town dont want mafia to know.
This game is just full of paragraf knights. I told you why I didnt want to say my SINGLE read and I got forced. Saying I wasnt forced is a lie.
And when I do say why Im a coward, so either way Im scum. And that dosent even make sense.
It is also intresting to see that town once again town reads the people with most posts as town.
Remember that mafia always sound smater and better because they know who is mafia and are working with perfect information.
Lastly I yet to see a day one lynch of a mafia player so anything that happens day one usually is just speculation.
My time is precious this weekend the little spare time I have not working is spent defending myself. I dont really have time to do what I want which is identify townies and lookig for mafia in the top posters day one.
A good example is my last normal game in which I found the gf day one and was unsuccessful in lynching him 3 days in a row because the mafia undermined me constantly.
But why did you say that Stutter was a strong town read in the first place without any reasoning? Isn't that the same as claiming that he's potentially a blue in your opinion (from scum perspective)? Granted, it could also be a complicated meta reason or something, but having a blue read is often the reason if someone doesn't want to say his reasons for a read. And then why reveal the blue read so quickly anyway under a bit of pressure? It's just... pretty much a disastrous chain of events, especially if you're town and correct. It's also disastrous if you're scum, so... Just why?
On September 25 2016 21:15 Xatalos wrote: On second thoughts, I can think of two potential scenarios where those events would make some sense. I think the scum scenario makes a bit more sense, given that he's a newbie. I'll wait a bit more before saying them out loud.
On September 25 2016 18:23 Lunaticman wrote: I wonder how not wanting to state a read because it will reveal a blue role is equal towards being mafia. The reason for not saying anything is because that is based o information town dont want mafia to know.
This game is just full of paragraf knights. I told you why I didnt want to say my SINGLE read and I got forced. Saying I wasnt forced is a lie.
And when I do say why Im a coward, so either way Im scum. And that dosent even make sense.
It is also intresting to see that town once again town reads the people with most posts as town.
Remember that mafia always sound smater and better because they know who is mafia and are working with perfect information.
Lastly I yet to see a day one lynch of a mafia player so anything that happens day one usually is just speculation.
My time is precious this weekend the little spare time I have not working is spent defending myself. I dont really have time to do what I want which is identify townies and lookig for mafia in the top posters day one.
A good example is my last normal game in which I found the gf day one and was unsuccessful in lynching him 3 days in a row because the mafia undermined me constantly.
But why did you say that Stutter was a strong town read in the first place without any reasoning? Isn't that the same as claiming that he's potentially a blue in your opinion (from scum perspective)? Granted, it could also be a complicated meta reason or something, but having a blue read is often the reason if someone doesn't want to say his reasons for a read. And then why reveal the blue read so quickly anyway under a bit of pressure? It's just... pretty much a disastrous chain of events, especially if you're town and correct. It's also disastrous if you're scum, so... Just why?
So you don't have hunches? I'm just saying nothing that has been said today has been nothing but speculation and you are accusing me of not giving reasons?
God ok I'll play your game:
Stutters is town because I have a meta read on him.
Satisified?
"No, how can you know that?"
"Because I played with him before"
"Really explain!"
On and on this goes. the TL mafia community really has a hard time dealing with people playing emotionally rather than using logic.
I'm probably not going to respond to anything related to my first town read anymore. It feels like beating a dead horse.
Wasn't it a blue read earlier....?
On September 26 2016 02:16 Xatalos wrote: Huh. Yeah, I wanted to see some more posts before revealing my thoughts on Lunatic, but doesn't seem like anyone is really posting...
So here are the two scenarios that I could imagine earlier:
1) Scum: He was trying to gain some easy credibility by pointing out a town read based on actual reasoning (blue read on Stutters after bluehunting him, as scum tend to bluehunt more often than town). Then he went into a bit of a panic after he got pressured for not reasoning his read and immediately claimed the blue read, which doesn't make much sense as town, but makes a bit more sense as scum since he wanted to relieve the pressure on him ASAP. In hindsight the play was a mistake (claiming Stutters was town without saying the reason), but it would make some sense from scum perspective at the time of doing it, especially since he's a newbie.
2) Town: Actually it was all a big WIFOM play as town to gather reactions and confuse scum bluehunting. However, this seems less likely since he's a newbie and still hasn't claimed anything of this sort despite lengthy posting on the topic.
So all things considered, him being scum makes quite a bit more sense IMO.
On September 26 2016 02:21 Xatalos wrote: Well, actually there's also a third scenario, where he's town and simply messed up by making a blue read, including it in his read list for some reason (without specifically saying that he thought he was a blue) and then saying it out loud in the heat of the moment. I guess that's a bit more likely than the scenario #2 after all since he's a newbie... But scenario #1 seems the most credible one, I guess. Hm. Any opinions?
On September 26 2016 02:25 Xatalos wrote: Meh, not totally sure, but I think he still seems a bit worse than DanelerH atm.
As for others, can't say I've found anything especially suspicious otherwise. Stutters' thing against Soul still confuses me. As for Jealous, I guess he could be scum, he's been pretty passive/blendy, but nothing really jumps out as scummy from him that I've noticed.
There is a lot there, the stuff that I noticed was just how hard of a time Xata had calling Luna scum, he seems like he really wants to try and defend him in some of these posts, yet just can't quite do it. It reads exactly to me like a mafia who realizes he needs to bus and over-elaborates theread on his mate.
It's weaker, but I also get the distinct impression that around the time of the quote from the top of this post (around pg 14) that Xata was kinda drawing attention away from what was some mounting pressure on Lunatic. That might be a bit of confirmation bias there though.
By the time I made the DanelerH post there wasn't really much about Lunatic. He had only made his Stutters read, didn't yet claim it was a blue read. Once he did, I admit I might have focused too much on the blue issue, but it kind of felt like he could have genuinely blue read Stutters and it took priority for me. Once I reread the situation from the perspective of Lunatic being scum and faking it, I came to the conclusion that he was probably scum and started pushing him among the first people... Can't really compare my actions to Skynx who never pushed or voted him...
I think my analysis of the situation was pretty good, even if I say it myself. Why would I only consider the possibility of him being scum? It wasn't a sure-fire scum lynch, but a probable enough one, and I still stand by my stances for the day.
I'll answer to earlier questions for me etc. later, but I had an idea while at work that I just had to start working on as soon as I could... So the following post is about that. It should make things a lot clearer at least for me
The idea being: two levels of scummy interactions, one for Lunatic <--> others and the other for the scummiest of the previous ones <--> each other to figure out 3-man scumteams that make sense. Let's see where this goes. (huge thanks to ptmc's post here by the way, it saved me a lot of time: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513316-newbie-student-mafia-xxiii?page=35#695 )
1) Lunatic <--> others
DanelerH Pushed Lunatic through most of D1 and possibly caused him to "shut down" in the thread. I highly doubt he would do that to his teammate. Lunatic appeared genuinely pressured as well, making odd (in hindsight) claims like the blue read on Stutters and going overly defensive.
Calix Pretty much started the Stutters-read pressure on Lunatic and participated in forming his lynch wagon. Kind of similar to DanelerH, hard to see scum doing that to each other from the start of the game.
Stutters A more controversial pick for green color, perhaps, but I agree with whoever said that it would be extremely rare for scum to immediately throw a strong townread on their teammate like Lunatic did. It would only link them together in everyone's minds (something scum would definitely not want) and make the other look bad/scum if the other flips. In addition, it wouldn't come naturally as a careless throwaway comment like how Lunatic said it. It just fits so much better as a casual, too strong townread on someone he would know to be town in advance. Also, I have an interesting theory related to Stutters, but that's best left for later.
Rels Jumped on the Lunatic wagon pretty early and questioned his read on Stutters earlier on, but nothing truly conclusive. Town lean?
- - - - - - (the point after which I can see these people being scum with Lunatic to some meaningful extent)
SEQ/Tictock Voted for Lunatic, but otherwise ???
Jealous Hard to say. Had Lunatic as a lynch candidate / scum for most of D1, but nothing exactly conclusive to their relations happened.
scott Can't say I agree with ptmc's assessment about how weirdly he interacted with Lunatic. His posts almost mirror my thoughts at the time of their writing (even regarding Stutters and DanelerH)... but it's true that he was pretty "on the fence" about lynching Lunatic or not during D1 so it's not too hard to see a Lunatic/scott team.
DYH Passive towards Lunatic and the whole D1 lynch in general. His Lunatic vote was pretty "resigned" and late as well. Could well be scum with Lunatic.
Skynx Soft-defended Lunatic, ignored him or counter-pushed away from him on several occasions during D1 (see ptmc's eventlist for easy details, just search for "Skynx" lines in red text, or read his filter). Never pressured Lunatic or contributed to his lynch either (no, the one-liner "Lunatic had the worst intro post I guess" didn't impact his own or anyone else's play during D1). A Lunatic/Skynx scumteam makes the most sense to me.
2) Sensible scumteams?
Now it's the time to check if any of the players who could be scum with Lunatic would fit as scum with each other.
Skynx/DYH? Doesn't seem very likely. Skynx pushed DYH late during D1, and it would be pretty stupid to go through that trouble just to perhaps get a scum lynched instead of another scum. More sensible options would have been to bus Lunatic or to push a townie. I guess it could have been distancing, but that doesn't seem likely in that high-stakes situation.Verdict: NO
Skynx/scott? Skynx soft-defends scott in a couple of his posts, otherwise nothing. scott barely mentions Skynx, but when he does, in a slightly positive light. This team could make sense. Verdict: YES
Skynx/Jealous? Jealous doesn't really mention Skynx until very recently where he said that he "doesn't like Skynx but he's not necessarily scummy". Skynx doesn't really talk about Jealous at all. Verdict: YES
Skynx/SEQ/Tictock? Not much, but Skynx congratulates SEQ for questioning Lunatic... And Tictock calls Skynx town for "pressuring Lunatic"??? In reality, it was the opposite situation, just read Skynx's filter or ptmc's summary. Not really sure if scum would so blatantly prop up another, but something is off. Verdict: YES
DYH/scott? Not completely sure about this one, but I guess they do fit somehow. scott agrees that DYH is scummy, but not much beyond that.... They also have a weird interaction where they start to "chat" with each other, but nothing happens? Verdict: YES
DYH/Jealous? Not likely. DYH has pressured/scumread Jealous on several occasions and similarly Jealous has been scumreading DYH. A double bus in this game state is a bit too unlikely... Verdict: NO
DYH/SEQ/Tictock? DYH defended SEQ somewhat, but Tictock has been quite anti-DYH. Could be bussing, I guess, but hard to say. Verdict: ?
scott/Jealous? scott scumread Jealous D1, but townread him after the Lunatic lynch since Jealous "never wavered on lynching Lunatic". Jealous put scott as a lynch candidate after Lunatic was lynched. Overall, uncertain for now. Verdict: ?
scott/SEQ/Tictock? Kind of like with Jealous, scott first (slightly) scumreads SEQ and townreads him after Lunatic was lynched since he "never wavered on lynching Lunatic". SEQ never mentions scott. Tictock calls scott "prob town but kinda null". I guess this scumteam could work... Verdict: YES
Jealous/SEQ/Tictock? SEQ townreads Jealous early on, later on unsure. Tictock calls Jealous null. Jealous doesn't really voice an opinion on SEQ/Tictock. Verdict: YES
If I missed something, please point it out. This has been a ton of work and there's probably a mistake somewhere at this point.
In any case, it's time for the conclusions based on earlier stuffs. Here are the sensible possible scumteams that are left now:
Frankly, I'm not too confident that DYH is scum based on this. He would almost have to be scum with scott. Meanwhile Skynx could basically be scum with anyone besides DYH. scott isn't very limited either, but I like him better than either Skynx or DYH.
Well, I'd be glad to hear other opinions on these findings.
Huh, I seem to have forgotten ptmc in the list. Probably because he wrote the list I used as reference for the first part of my post. I'll check his filter later to see if there's anything,
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: SEQ/Tictock Voted for Lunatic, but otherwise ???
I refuse to believe you have literally no read on me.
That was just the part about D1 interactions with Lunatic. Although I'm not really sure about you either, yet. I'll take a closer look after I'm back after a bit of AFKing
Skynx's static non-reaction to my biggest contribution so far ("still scum because OMGUS, nothing will ever change that!") makes me quite sure that he has to be scum.
If you're still not convinced, read this with some thought and then look at Skynx's filter:
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: Skynx Soft-defended Lunatic, ignored him or counter-pushed away from him on several occasions during D1 (see ptmc's eventlist for easy details, just search for "Skynx" lines in red text, or read his filter). Never pressured Lunatic or contributed to his lynch either (no, the one-liner "Lunatic had the worst intro post I guess" didn't impact his own or anyone else's play during D1). A Lunatic/Skynx scumteam makes the most sense to me.
ptmc is probably town. It looks like it's even his first forum game and he's already putting in that much effort... Would be a bit hard to imagine for scum.
For the record, I agree that my earlier case (not the piece of text I just wrote) on Skynx was a bit crap, now that I look at it. It didn't really convey well what I thought about him. It's better to just ignore my earlier case and look at his actions directly with the question in mind "what if he was trying to save Lunatic from getting lynched D1?"
On September 29 2016 03:31 scott31337 wrote: Work has been really crazy today so I've only skimmed today's posts - I'll try to be back in a little bit.
On September 29 2016 03:29 Xatalos wrote: For the record, I agree that my earlier case (not the piece of text I just wrote) on Skynx was a bit crap, now that I look at it. It didn't really convey well what I thought about him. It's better to just ignore my earlier case and look at his actions directly with the question in mind "what if he was trying to save Lunatic from getting lynched D1?"
So even given this, and keeping the same question in mind, you still find Skynx more likely to be scum than DYH?
Also because DYH doesn't fit into many scumteams of him+Lunatic+X while Skynx does, yeah, I think Skynx is a bit more likely scum.
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: I'll answer to earlier questions for me etc. later, but I had an idea while at work that I just had to start working on as soon as I could... So the following post is about that. It should make things a lot clearer at least for me
The idea being: two levels of scummy interactions, one for Lunatic <--> others and the other for the scummiest of the previous ones <--> each other to figure out 3-man scumteams that make sense. Let's see where this goes. (huge thanks to ptmc's post here by the way, it saved me a lot of time: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513316-newbie-student-mafia-xxiii?page=35#695 )
1) Lunatic <--> others
DanelerH Pushed Lunatic through most of D1 and possibly caused him to "shut down" in the thread. I highly doubt he would do that to his teammate. Lunatic appeared genuinely pressured as well, making odd (in hindsight) claims like the blue read on Stutters and going overly defensive.
Calix Pretty much started the Stutters-read pressure on Lunatic and participated in forming his lynch wagon. Kind of similar to DanelerH, hard to see scum doing that to each other from the start of the game.
Stutters A more controversial pick for green color, perhaps, but I agree with whoever said that it would be extremely rare for scum to immediately throw a strong townread on their teammate like Lunatic did. It would only link them together in everyone's minds (something scum would definitely not want) and make the other look bad/scum if the other flips. In addition, it wouldn't come naturally as a careless throwaway comment like how Lunatic said it. It just fits so much better as a casual, too strong townread on someone he would know to be town in advance. Also, I have an interesting theory related to Stutters, but that's best left for later.
Rels Jumped on the Lunatic wagon pretty early and questioned his read on Stutters earlier on, but nothing truly conclusive. Town lean?
- - - - - - (the point after which I can see these people being scum with Lunatic to some meaningful extent)
SEQ/Tictock Voted for Lunatic, but otherwise ???
Jealous Hard to say. Had Lunatic as a lynch candidate / scum for most of D1, but nothing exactly conclusive to their relations happened.
scott Can't say I agree with ptmc's assessment about how weirdly he interacted with Lunatic. His posts almost mirror my thoughts at the time of their writing (even regarding Stutters and DanelerH)... but it's true that he was pretty "on the fence" about lynching Lunatic or not during D1 so it's not too hard to see a Lunatic/scott team.
DYH Passive towards Lunatic and the whole D1 lynch in general. His Lunatic vote was pretty "resigned" and late as well. Could well be scum with Lunatic.
Skynx Soft-defended Lunatic, ignored him or counter-pushed away from him on several occasions during D1 (see ptmc's eventlist for easy details, just search for "Skynx" lines in red text, or read his filter). Never pressured Lunatic or contributed to his lynch either (no, the one-liner "Lunatic had the worst intro post I guess" didn't impact his own or anyone else's play during D1). A Lunatic/Skynx scumteam makes the most sense to me.
2) Sensible scumteams?
Now it's the time to check if any of the players who could be scum with Lunatic would fit as scum with each other.
Skynx/DYH? Doesn't seem very likely. Skynx pushed DYH late during D1, and it would be pretty stupid to go through that trouble just to perhaps get a scum lynched instead of another scum. More sensible options would have been to bus Lunatic or to push a townie. I guess it could have been distancing, but that doesn't seem likely in that high-stakes situation.Verdict: NO
Skynx/scott? Skynx soft-defends scott in a couple of his posts, otherwise nothing. scott barely mentions Skynx, but when he does, in a slightly positive light. This team could make sense. Verdict: YES
Skynx/Jealous? Jealous doesn't really mention Skynx until very recently where he said that he "doesn't like Skynx but he's not necessarily scummy". Skynx doesn't really talk about Jealous at all. Verdict: YES
Skynx/SEQ/Tictock? Not much, but Skynx congratulates SEQ for questioning Lunatic... And Tictock calls Skynx town for "pressuring Lunatic"??? In reality, it was the opposite situation, just read Skynx's filter or ptmc's summary. Not really sure if scum would so blatantly prop up another, but something is off. Verdict: YES
DYH/scott? Not completely sure about this one, but I guess they do fit somehow. scott agrees that DYH is scummy, but not much beyond that.... They also have a weird interaction where they start to "chat" with each other, but nothing happens? Verdict: YES
DYH/Jealous? Not likely. DYH has pressured/scumread Jealous on several occasions and similarly Jealous has been scumreading DYH. A double bus in this game state is a bit too unlikely... Verdict: NO
DYH/SEQ/Tictock? DYH defended SEQ somewhat, but Tictock has been quite anti-DYH. Could be bussing, I guess, but hard to say. Verdict: ?
scott/Jealous? scott scumread Jealous D1, but townread him after the Lunatic lynch since Jealous "never wavered on lynching Lunatic". Jealous put scott as a lynch candidate after Lunatic was lynched. Overall, uncertain for now. Verdict: ?
scott/SEQ/Tictock? Kind of like with Jealous, scott first (slightly) scumreads SEQ and townreads him after Lunatic was lynched since he "never wavered on lynching Lunatic". SEQ never mentions scott. Tictock calls scott "prob town but kinda null". I guess this scumteam could work... Verdict: YES
Jealous/SEQ/Tictock? SEQ townreads Jealous early on, later on unsure. Tictock calls Jealous null. Jealous doesn't really voice an opinion on SEQ/Tictock. Verdict: YES
If I missed something, please point it out. This has been a ton of work and there's probably a mistake somewhere at this point.
In any case, it's time for the conclusions based on earlier stuffs. Here are the sensible possible scumteams that are left now:
Frankly, I'm not too confident that DYH is scum based on this. He would almost have to be scum with scott. Meanwhile Skynx could basically be scum with anyone besides DYH. scott isn't very limited either, but I like him better than either Skynx or DYH.
Well, I'd be glad to hear other opinions on these findings.
Some of these are some crack smoking teams -
I'm town so a lot of them are crack but -
DYH/me - so I push my other teammate in n1/d2 and lay a vote on him at the beginning of d2 and have others hop on it, so I'm all by myself for 3-4 mislynches. Yeah that'll work
Me/TT - so SEQ/TT starts the train on his teammate, and then when TT replaces in, he's got legitimate thoughts and we mindmeld together because we are mafia together? mmhmmm
I think this is quite a bit of stretch and what you are throwing out, to be honest. It's why I asked you who your two scummates are. Now it looks like you are throwing shit to see what sticks.
Not good.
Take it as you wish.
As for the corrections, I don't think DYH/scott is quite as unlikely as DYH/Skynx. DYH was already heading to the slaughter and it's not unimaginable that you would feel the need to bus at this point. Granted, it's not one of the most likely teams (and I did mention that I'm unsure about that one). Maybe I should have ranked them in order of likeliness.
As for scott/TT, when did SEQ push you? I'm not sure if I follow.
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: SEQ/Tictock Voted for Lunatic, but otherwise ???
I refuse to believe you have literally no read on me.
That was just the part about D1 interactions with Lunatic. Although I'm not really sure about you either, yet. I'll take a closer look after I'm back after a bit of AFKing
Weird post. You're defending against TT's attack by saying your post was only about a certain part of the game; yet your read on him is actually null so he's actually right.
Just corrected him because he directly quoted my comment about SEQ's D1 stuff.
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: SEQ/Tictock Voted for Lunatic, but otherwise ???
I refuse to believe you have literally no read on me.
That was just the part about D1 interactions with Lunatic. Although I'm not really sure about you either, yet. I'll take a closer look after I'm back after a bit of AFKing
Weird post. You're defending against TT's attack by saying your post was only about a certain part of the game; yet your read on him is actually null so he's actually right.
Just corrected him because he directly quoted my comment about SEQ's D1 stuff.
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: SEQ/Tictock Voted for Lunatic, but otherwise ???
I refuse to believe you have literally no read on me.
That was just the part about D1 interactions with Lunatic. Although I'm not really sure about you either, yet. I'll take a closer look after I'm back after a bit of AFKing
Weird post. You're defending against TT's attack by saying your post was only about a certain part of the game; yet your read on him is actually null so he's actually right.
Just corrected him because he directly quoted my comment about SEQ's D1 stuff.
Besides, I'll point out that no read != nullread.
TT sentence is literally "I refuse to believe you have literally no read on me."
And..? I do have a read on him, which is that he's pretty null at the moment. It's not the same as no read.
On September 29 2016 04:37 Xatalos wrote: Rels, what do you even think of Skynx?
I think he's town. I can follow his entire train of thought for D2 and I believe it is real.
Hm. To me his D2 play looked more like "a case on me? it's not even good? a chance, time to go full OMGUS and never look back!" and that forever after.
On September 29 2016 03:17 Xatalos wrote: Skynx's static non-reaction to my biggest contribution so far ("still scum because OMGUS, nothing will ever change that!") makes me quite sure that he has to be scum.
If you're still not convinced, read this with some thought and then look at Skynx's filter:
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: Skynx Soft-defended Lunatic, ignored him or counter-pushed away from him on several occasions during D1 (see ptmc's eventlist for easy details, just search for "Skynx" lines in red text, or read his filter). Never pressured Lunatic or contributed to his lynch either (no, the one-liner "Lunatic had the worst intro post I guess" didn't impact his own or anyone else's play during D1). A Lunatic/Skynx scumteam makes the most sense to me.
I commented on your push and why it was crap and why it made you scum. Your comment on it pretty much ignored everything I put on the table and just said OMGUS. Therefore you painting me as "static non-reaction" is just hilarious.
I agree I presented your filter's ugly truths badly earlier, but it doesn't make me scum. The core of my suspicion on you came from reading ptmc's list of your actions on D1, which were about all scum-aligned. I should have just listed those, but for some reason I went looking for additional things that weren't very damning. Keep it simple, stupid
On September 29 2016 04:37 Xatalos wrote: Rels, what do you even think of Skynx?
I think he's town. I can follow his entire train of thought for D2 and I believe it is real.
Hm. To me his D2 play looked more like "a case on me? it's not even good? a chance, time to go full OMGUS and never look back!" and that forever after.
A case? You mean the sole argument of me trying to prevent Lunatic gettin lynched?
Generally the fact that your interactions with/towards Lunatic were the most scummy on D1, you haven't really done much else (besides pushing DYH and now me), and your OMGUS push on me for the flawed case, without taking anything new into consideration afterwards.
On September 29 2016 03:17 Xatalos wrote: Skynx's static non-reaction to my biggest contribution so far ("still scum because OMGUS, nothing will ever change that!") makes me quite sure that he has to be scum.
If you're still not convinced, read this with some thought and then look at Skynx's filter:
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: Skynx Soft-defended Lunatic, ignored him or counter-pushed away from him on several occasions during D1 (see ptmc's eventlist for easy details, just search for "Skynx" lines in red text, or read his filter). Never pressured Lunatic or contributed to his lynch either (no, the one-liner "Lunatic had the worst intro post I guess" didn't impact his own or anyone else's play during D1). A Lunatic/Skynx scumteam makes the most sense to me.
I commented on your push and why it was crap and why it made you scum. Your comment on it pretty much ignored everything I put on the table and just said OMGUS. Therefore you painting me as "static non-reaction" is just hilarious.
I agree I presented your filter's ugly truths badly earlier, but it doesn't make me scum. The core of my suspicion on you came from reading ptmc's list of your actions on D1, which were about all scum-aligned. I should have just listed those, but for some reason I went looking for additional things that weren't very damning. Keep it simple, stupid
ptmc's list was good, but I already addressed those. They weren't OMGUS at all, you seem to be the only one thinking so anyway.
It is OMGUS if the only reason to push someone is that they pushed you.
On September 29 2016 03:17 Xatalos wrote: Skynx's static non-reaction to my biggest contribution so far ("still scum because OMGUS, nothing will ever change that!") makes me quite sure that he has to be scum.
If you're still not convinced, read this with some thought and then look at Skynx's filter:
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: Skynx Soft-defended Lunatic, ignored him or counter-pushed away from him on several occasions during D1 (see ptmc's eventlist for easy details, just search for "Skynx" lines in red text, or read his filter). Never pressured Lunatic or contributed to his lynch either (no, the one-liner "Lunatic had the worst intro post I guess" didn't impact his own or anyone else's play during D1). A Lunatic/Skynx scumteam makes the most sense to me.
I commented on your push and why it was crap and why it made you scum. Your comment on it pretty much ignored everything I put on the table and just said OMGUS. Therefore you painting me as "static non-reaction" is just hilarious.
I agree I presented your filter's ugly truths badly earlier, but it doesn't make me scum. The core of my suspicion on you came from reading ptmc's list of your actions on D1, which were about all scum-aligned. I should have just listed those, but for some reason I went looking for additional things that weren't very damning. Keep it simple, stupid
ptmc's list was good, but I already addressed those. They weren't OMGUS at all, you seem to be the only one thinking so anyway.
It is OMGUS if the only reason to push someone is that they pushed you.
It's the reasons behind your push that I pushed you, which were nada other than me/Lunatic association as it has been mentioned a million times. I guess we just agree to disagree.
Well, it's pretty much the same as the case on DYH, plus a stronger association with Lunatic than DYH and minus your more active attitude compared to him.
There's also the scumlean on DanelerH for his case on Lunatic. It's just a pool of circumstantial evidence.
Do you think DYH looks worse than you on association or do you think the other points against him (disinterest to scumhunt etc.) are just strong enough?
On September 29 2016 05:06 Skynx wrote: Hey you know what, I'm just gona vote DYH cuz if i don't maybe Xata will accuse me of trying to save him by voting xata tomorrow lul
On September 29 2016 05:02 Jealous wrote: I won't be around for EoD because I'm stuck in the lab. Here's what I'm thinking so far:
1. Xata: Although he put in effort and produced some content, as I was reading it I realized I wasn't agreeing with some key points in it, mostly his team associations and rationale. I was expecting to read through the post and glean something new from another perspective, but for the most part I feel that he just repeated the same reads he's had for a while in a different way with better formatting. His completely forgetting ptmc is curious as he referenced him within the same post, which isn't really saying anything AI but speaks of how thoroughly he has gone through the thread while making this list. He is still intent on Skynx, still doesn't want to give me much credit for pushing Luna, and failed to arrive at anything definitive. He has 2 scumreads but says they can't be on a team together?
2. Skynx: I'm actually really liking his list of reads right now. I wouldn't put Xata in the conf.scum category quite yet. I find Stutters and DYH to be much worse. What is more important for me is that he is showing what I find to be a more realistic view of the game so far, better than he did a few pages/days ago when I would look at some of his read s and go "huh?" I fear there might be a decent possibility that him vs. Xata is TvT but I'm not yet convinced. Either way, I wouldn't lynch Xata today. Skynx moves a little closer to a town lean for me.
3. I still dislike Stutters greatly. Maybe even more so than DYH, but that might be a chronological bias since I've seen more said about him recently and no words out of his mouth about it. The defense of Stutters seems to hinge on one post of Lunatic's, which I don't find to be a very good thing to put our money on. A person. Who could fuck up D1 so royally could fuck up more than once.
I am tempted to switch to Stutters, but I'll keep my money on DYH since I read into his filter more and thus won't be taking someone else's word for it.
Scummy af: DYH, Stutters Nullish: Scott, Skynx, Xata Town of varying degrees: everyone else
I have the paranoid suspicion that one of our trusted townies might be a bussing scum but I've learned to fight through that paranoia and focus on the tangible until my current scumlist is settled.
See y'all after work.
At least you read it
Which team suggestions did you disagree with? If you have good points, I'll gladly keep them in mind.
On September 29 2016 05:23 Calix wrote: How can he be the 'not worst result' when he's one of your scum-reads? O_o Like who gives a shit if you got two scum-reads strung up and neither of them are around to do anything, then that's an A* scenario right there.
I for one am psyched that people are wising up to scum!Stutters.
Basically because he's prolly not scum with Skynx, or anyone else for that matter (except maybe with scott) so Skynx seems like the safer bet.
On September 29 2016 05:17 Xatalos wrote: At least you read it
To be fair I did read your WoT, or most of it. I just thought the majority of it was crap.
The reads feel a bit off, like Rels should be much more obv town based on his pressure on Lunatic. I obv disagree about Skynx.
The whole team thing is just bad imo. I'd probably be willing to write it off as a bad approach but the way you use the team stuff to throw out DYH feels off to me.
Meh, I don't think Rels receives a complete town pass from that. He did question Lunatic, but didn't really pursue it, and he was like the fourth or fifth on his wagon? Not really a main cause of his death IMO, although he participated.
On September 29 2016 05:21 Calix wrote: Hell no we're not doing CFDs.
Also hi.
Hi.
Did you read my post yet?
Who cares about finding the entire scum team on D2? lol. I have tried that before and it's a really bad idea. Just means the scum will be on their guard and making sure their interactions are like "kk this is how we're going to fuck with the associations lul" and means people get stuck in a tunnel of confirmation bias. I'd know all about that.
tl;dr: No, I don't need to read it to know it's bad and you're bad for doing that.
It's worked for me in the past though. In one game it pretty much won the game. Granted, it was on D3/D4 or something, so a bit later.
On September 29 2016 05:17 Xatalos wrote: At least you read it
To be fair I did read your WoT, or most of it. I just thought the majority of it was crap.
The reads feel a bit off, like Rels should be much more obv town based on his pressure on Lunatic. I obv disagree about Skynx.
The whole team thing is just bad imo. I'd probably be willing to write it off as a bad approach but the way you use the team stuff to throw out DYH feels off to me.
Meh, I don't think Rels receives a complete town pass from that. He did question Lunatic, but didn't really pursue it, and he was like the fourth or fifth on his wagon? Not really a main cause of his death IMO, although he participated.
Off?
I was the one who started the wagon. Not by vote but by pressuring Lunatic into giving up.
Hm, maybe you could look at it that way. Although I think it was Dan who mostly did that
On September 29 2016 05:32 Calix wrote: DYH/ Stutters would make a lot of sense given that they have done nothing the entire game, have zero thread presence, etc. This would explain how the scum didn't try to save Lunatic or divert attention elsewhere, because none of them have the influence/ staying power to pull that off.
That would be pretty funny if it was the case, but it's maybe like a below 10% chance IMO.
On September 29 2016 05:34 DoYouHas wrote: Ok, here we go.
First off
Rels - This is town Rels, it may be meta, it may be whatever, but if he ends up being mafia he gets a hearty handshake from me because this feels exactly like town Rels. Strongest read I have in the game.
Calix - Everyone already agrees on this one, never lynch, maybe MAYBE take a harder look if he is alive lategame.
On September 29 2016 05:53 DoYouHas wrote: ptmc - The crazy effort in analyzing the game is major town points from me. The way he addressed my response to Rels' case also showed that he is reading carefully and thinking critically. So long as he doesn't drop off hard I'm thinking he is town.
Xata - I liked him from the first hours of the game when he interacted with Calix. Calix stuck around and mixed things up even when he had been given an out, Xata recognized this and gave him a townread for it. I agreed with the read and I liked that he mentioned it as it would be an easy thing to let slide to keep options open. He also seems to be trying to solve the game and I might be biased towards him as he is one of the few who is toying with scenarios that don't involve me being scum.
Dunno, that read felt pretty genuine to me. Or maybe I'm conversely biased
On September 29 2016 06:20 Jealous wrote: So I get to the lab and it's closed due to an emergency, thanks for calling me guys! Love commuting! <3 At least now I can stick around until EoD.
On September 29 2016 05:21 Calix wrote: Hell no we're not doing CFDs.
Also hi.
Hi.
Did you read my post yet?
Who cares about finding the entire scum team on D2? lol. I have tried that before and it's a really bad idea. Just means the scum will be on their guard and making sure their interactions are like "kk this is how we're going to fuck with the associations lul" and means people get stuck in a tunnel of confirmation bias. I'd know all about that.
tl;dr: No, I don't need to read it to know it's bad and you're bad for doing that.
It's worked for me in the past though. In one game it pretty much won the game. Granted, it was on D3/D4 or something, so a bit later.
Although I've heard others say it isn't recommended too, I also have had a good experience with doing this in D4. However, I feel that there is a time and place, and this was not it. The broadness of your findings are a testament to this.
On September 29 2016 06:23 Calix wrote: How is typing them out two at a time relevant to anything? Is this going anywhere?
I'd rather leave the DYH-answering-questions thing until he's finished with his thoughts. Don't want to distract him too much from saying something first.
I guess that's true too. There isn't much time left.
On September 29 2016 06:48 Jealous wrote: I petition that if DYH is scum, and Stutters doesn't vote, that the game ends here and we get all the trophies.
On September 29 2016 06:39 Calix wrote: DYH, why try to start a new train when you could vote for Stutters?
I find that extremely weird when you said he was a possible scum tbh.
Let's be honest here, I'm not turning this train on me around. There is too much information to be gained and too much has happened/not happened to and from me to not go through with the lynch.
So I'm going to put my vote on the person I think is most likely to flip scum. Stutters is possible scum but I still trust my gut reads from early in the game. If I end up being wrong, so be it, but I think Scott is more likely.
Is there something other on scott than NK analysis?
On September 29 2016 06:48 Jealous wrote: I petition that if DYH is scum, and Stutters doesn't vote, that the game ends here and we get all the trophies.
On September 29 2016 06:51 Calix wrote: The whole lack of a survival instinct thing was giving me pause because scum are more likely to vote for any opposing wagon so that they live, but that could be a strategy for CFD possibilities as said earlier and you're right, your lynch is the best move atm.
There isn't really any valid counter-wagon atm though
On September 29 2016 06:39 Calix wrote: DYH, why try to start a new train when you could vote for Stutters?
I find that extremely weird when you said he was a possible scum tbh.
Let's be honest here, I'm not turning this train on me around. There is too much information to be gained and too much has happened/not happened to and from me to not go through with the lynch.
So I'm going to put my vote on the person I think is most likely to flip scum. Stutters is possible scum but I still trust my gut reads from early in the game. If I end up being wrong, so be it, but I think Scott is more likely.
Is there something other on scott than NK analysis?
Eh, nothing concrete or convincing. It is mostly PoE from my other reads. I nod along with most of Skynx's posts and can see them coming from town, Scott gets squinty eyes from me with how he is pushing people, being agreeable and generally not sticking his neck out.
On September 29 2016 06:55 Calix wrote: Chinese Fire Drill. You guys call them shen-something (forget the spelling) or some shit like that.
I said Stutters because a couple of people like ptmc, myself, Daneler think he's scum so he's a more viable option than Skynx/ Xatalos/ Scott, not because he had a lot of votes.
On September 29 2016 06:39 Calix wrote: DYH, why try to start a new train when you could vote for Stutters?
I find that extremely weird when you said he was a possible scum tbh.
Let's be honest here, I'm not turning this train on me around. There is too much information to be gained and too much has happened/not happened to and from me to not go through with the lynch.
So I'm going to put my vote on the person I think is most likely to flip scum. Stutters is possible scum but I still trust my gut reads from early in the game. If I end up being wrong, so be it, but I think Scott is more likely.
Is there something other on scott than NK analysis?
Eh, nothing concrete or convincing. It is mostly PoE from my other reads. I nod along with most of Skynx's posts and can see them coming from town, Scott gets squinty eyes from me with how he is pushing people, being agreeable and generally not sticking his neck out.
Hm ok.... Well, let's hope it was right..
What do you mean with this post exactly?
That this lynch choice was right........ But doesn't seem like it was.......
On September 29 2016 06:39 Calix wrote: DYH, why try to start a new train when you could vote for Stutters?
I find that extremely weird when you said he was a possible scum tbh.
Let's be honest here, I'm not turning this train on me around. There is too much information to be gained and too much has happened/not happened to and from me to not go through with the lynch.
So I'm going to put my vote on the person I think is most likely to flip scum. Stutters is possible scum but I still trust my gut reads from early in the game. If I end up being wrong, so be it, but I think Scott is more likely.
Is there something other on scott than NK analysis?
Eh, nothing concrete or convincing. It is mostly PoE from my other reads. I nod along with most of Skynx's posts and can see them coming from town, Scott gets squinty eyes from me with how he is pushing people, being agreeable and generally not sticking his neck out.
Hm ok.... Well, let's hope it was right..
What do you mean with this post exactly?
That this lynch choice was right........ But doesn't seem like it was.......
You were talking to DYH and it sounded like you were hoping that Scott was scum though? So I'm confused there.
"Let's hope it was right" was more talking to myself though, not really related to the quoted post.
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: Stutters A more controversial pick for green color, perhaps, but I agree with whoever said that it would be extremely rare for scum to immediately throw a strong townread on their teammate like Lunatic did. It would only link them together in everyone's minds (something scum would definitely not want) and make the other look bad/scum if the other flips. In addition, it wouldn't come naturally as a careless throwaway comment like how Lunatic said it. It just fits so much better as a casual, too strong townread on someone he would know to be town in advance. Also, I have an interesting theory related to Stutters, but that's best left for later.
I'm interested in this theory you have that's related to Stutters. Mind sharing it? I'm assuming it relates to the second good reason you have to Town-read Stutters. + Show Spoiler +
On September 29 2016 07:08 Xatalos wrote: Hm. stutters didn't vote?
There are still two good reasons to townread him, but his play is really...
Sorry, it's confidential for now... And not entirely certain. I'll say my thought there when the time is right.
However, I'll counter by asking... Where are you going with these questions to different players?
On September 30 2016 14:07 scott31337 wrote: I'm starting to see the light now.
And?
lol
Anyways, process of elimination & Lunatic interactions have left me with Skynx/scott as the most probable scumteam now. Anything you have to say about that? Would be especially interesting to hear your current Skynx/Jealous/Tictock reads.
And I still don't see the case for stutters besides his subpar activity/play. I guess I might have to elaborate on my other reason a bit later if need be.
Something feels wrong though. Like can it really be something as easy as Skynx/scott?
I think I'll be reading Rels filter for the time being. Be back a bit later.
Anyways, process of elimination & Lunatic interactions have left me with Skynx/scott as the most probable scumteam now. Anything you have to say about that? Would be especially interesting to hear your current Skynx/Jealous/Tictock reads.
And I still don't see the case for stutters besides his subpar activity/play. I guess I might have to elaborate on my other reason a bit later if need be.
Something feels wrong though. Like can it really be something as easy as Skynx/scott?
I think I'll be reading Rels filter for the time being. Be back a bit later.
I think Skynx guy is quite town, same with TT and Jeal.
On September 29 2016 06:48 Jealous wrote: I petition that if DYH is scum, and Stutters doesn't vote, that the game ends here and we get all the trophies.
I will get the trophies and you will be jealous
Your vote is on Skynx hahahahaha
Oh yeah.... Gotta change that I guess
So what was your reason sr'ing DYH again? It should be quite something to deviate you from your course of eliminating your top sr target mr Skynx.
It truly did not matter what I voted at that point in time. I just switched to DYH after Jealous mentioned that I wouldn't be getting any glory from the lynch since I wasn't even voting for him. Sadly it was in vain :/
Meh. I think there's just seriously something I'm missing here.
On September 29 2016 22:17 Calix wrote: So I decided to look back through the posts leading up to the ML and I think Jealous has the most questionable sequence with regards to his DYH read.
On September 28 2016 08:31 Jealous wrote: It seems like people have mostly vocally agreed on DYH with a few exceptions, but I don't see the votes on him. I'll construct my case on him then, just so that it's out there. I was going to revisit Stutters but I see DYH as priority right now. Working.
On September 24 2016 11:26 DoYouHas wrote: I think I like you as well Stutters. Good on ya.
- I'll try to get into something beyond these gut reads tomorrow, hopefully when a few more people have posted. As is I'm pretty happy with tonight. 3/5 for my town pile and 2 I need to think about and watch. Gnight.
Promises more substance tomorrow, let's see if he delivers.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
He's been gone for almost 24 hours and comes back with this. For reference, Stutters was making a case on SEQ and told people to go look at SEQ filter. DYH is basically saying "okay, I'll do what you suggest to check out your scumread and work with you, but only if you give me your thoughts on ptmc, about whom I haven't said a word yet." I don't know if this is very townie behavior. Why wouldn't he just give his thoughts on SEQ and then ask about ptmc?
Interesting post from Xata on this, prior to DoYouHas' return:
On September 25 2016 06:50 Xatalos wrote: DoYouHas did make quite a bit of posts earlier btw.
6 posts, only 4 of which were during the game, and none of which had substance besides 3 gut reads. Is this really worth commenting on? Is this really "quite a bit?" Hmm.
On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote: The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded.
It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum?
On September 25 2016 10:53 DoYouHas wrote: So is it bad enough that you would want to lynch him or do you currently have a stronger scum read on someone else currently?
On September 25 2016 11:09 DoYouHas wrote: @Jealous, are you in and out? Why is it taking you this long to respond to me?
As Tictock pointed out, DYH seems to be pressuring me more than Lunatic despite (at least superficially) agreeing with me that Lunatic is playing anti-town. In fact, DYH hadn't said a word about Lunatic at all up until this point. Surely he saw the post? Why ignore Lunatic? Why jump on me?
On September 26 2016 03:43 Superbia wrote: I need a champion.
You have Giacomo! (so long as you are leading against DH, Luna, or Jealous)
So he throws Luna into the mix now that Luna has drawn attention but dilutes it by throwing two other names in there, neither of which he had mentioned until now. The only person he had really said anything of substance about until here is SEQ, besides his gutreads at the start of the game. (Also, he didn't really contribute anything in over 27 hours, despite promising to do so). This is his first time calling any of the three scum, and does it in a way that provides no substance whatsoever.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
Here he elaborates, imaginably because he is trying to get Superbia to sheep him. Doesn't like DH for scumreading Luna, despite also saying Luna is "possible scum," and then puts me in the same group again. Note, I was against Luna at the time as well. How would that team of 3 ever make sense? Both I and DH go for a bus halfway through D1 when there were only a handful of pages and posts, after telling Lunatic to post like an idiot? That's a stretch, and DYH makes no sense here otherwise.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
So uh.
Read on DH is pre-flip association or what?
I don't think Luna and Dane are likely to be scum together, but taking there play individually I think either of them could be scum here. Is that what you meant?
I guess this explains the previous post somewhat, but he only makes the distinction when asked by Superbia? You would think that would be something you'd want to put in your post that is supposed to be informative to Superbia, and not only when probed further. In short, he threw out three scum reads he had never mentioned until then, then elaborated on it, but didn't mention he didn't think they were on a team together. That's careless at best; misleading seems more likely.
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
On September 25 2016 11:02 DoYouHas wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond.
Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also.
SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it.
Calix is right. The sequence seems pretty forced. DYH said "I'll exchange your read on ptmc for my read on SEQ" when his read on SEQ is null. And it also looks like he was waiting of Stutters to go "OK what's your read on SEQ now ?"; but Stutters didn't, and DYH said it anyway. It looks like it was planned to appear to have a conversation.
Or maybe, just maybe, both of your assumptions are wrong here.
1. I wasn't providing a null read on SEQ 2. I was actually trying to have a conversation with someone I townread.
Stutters being the "someone I townread," which he did with "gut" in the first few hours of the game, which he never mentioned again. Also note that he still hasn't provided anything as he had promised at the start.
On September 26 2016 11:56 DoYouHas wrote: GRAH, I CAN'T MAKE IT STICK
For everything I don't like about you and think makes you scum: Your early fluff, non-committal, over-defensiveness, appeals to your noobieness, misrepresenting me, buddying Calix, looking at the proposal of multiple wagons from a mafia perspective instead of a town one (looking at it as a trap to be avoided instead of as an opportunity for better VCA) I can't seem to find the mafia actions in your play around the lynch. If I'm having trouble convincing myself of probably the most important part when I undoubtedly have my confirmation bias glasses on it probably isn't there. I was seeing your tonal shifts from casually attacking Luna to guarded consideration then back to casual attacking as very odd. But the thing I can't figure out if you are scum is why you would leave your vote on Luna and not Stutters before the wagon on Luna got rolling. This post:
On September 25 2016 17:17 Jealous wrote: I have to agree with Calix on the more anti-town part. [B]## Lunaticman just in case I don't make it back.
It doesn't fit or is significantly more clever than I am.
Damn, damn, damn. I hate having no scum reads. I really do need to get to bed though. See you all with the daypost.
This takes him a whole hour and he calls me all sorts of terrible but still can't make a case. This means he is town/null-reading everyone in the game, was pushing a lynch/scumread since his first few posts D1 that he himself can't support and had given no concrete evidence on at all until he was forced to draw some out. That is simply foolish, and scummy in my book.
These are his last two posts, nearly a day ago. And frankly, I don't think they are very good. Although I think Rels post did have some stuff I didn't agree with, and DYH pointed them out, the rest of it was pretty weak. He doesn't make much sense in some parts nor does he substantiate much of his argument about why DH or I were scummy, which he references a few times. His earlier posts on the subject were, as you can see above, were weak as well, so it's not like he could reference some strong analysis from before.
Overall, I think DYH is scum. I don't think neither Xata nor skynx are worth a vote right now, but I will definitely look into them more in detail. There are still some fishy things I don't like about Xata and Skynx doesn't seem to be paying much attention to the game in certain posts of his, which I don't like but can't necessarily say is scummy until I see them side-by-side in analysis.
So yea, I voted DYH.
He acknowledges that DYH is someone that pretty much everyone agrees is scummy, yet he thinks that it's a good use of his time to make a massive case against him and hop on the train because 'he doesn't have that many votes on him'. Keep in mind that DYH is the leading train at this point with the Xatalos/ Skynx thing being supported by almost nobody save for each other and Stutters having a few supporters. That is it. The Stutters train was not even a thing for most of the day.
He references a fair number of arguments used by other players (TT, myself, etc) and the points he added aren't anything massively incriminating in retrospect. My point? It makes me wonder why Jealous felt the need to devote a large amount of his time to a case on someone that he was already scum-reading given that he largely rehashes the arguments of other players and this is all on a player that he's already given opinions on. That's not a case of bad priorities, that's posting for the hell of it.
If you want an example of not-scummy points he raised, look no further than him criticising DYH for going "Lunatic, Jealous, DanelerH are my scum-reads" because "that team makes no sense". This is all fine and dandy...if we were talking about a post made on Day 4. That's not the case though; he's talking about reads made early on Day 1. Most players do not consider associative tells that early on in the game because the goal is to lynch a scum. Until then, you have no concrete information to base associative reads from so criticising DYH for that is nit-picky and doesn't add anything to the argument.
This is also one of the worst EOD posts:
[B]On September 29 2016 06:40 Jealous wrote: I'm starting to WIFOM over the fact that DYH showed up just before EoD when the train is on him. Like, would a scum normally do this? I don't think I would lol. The reason it's WIFOM is because maybe he is trying to make people doubt his scumminess last second and shenanie? I'm locked in but I'll feel a little bad about it if he flips town ):
As you can see, he is showing some doubt over DYH flipping scum. That's all fine, nothing to see there, but his reasoning is absolutely insane.
tl;dr:
- DYH showed up when he got voted - Scum wouldn't bother to turn up because scum!Jealous would not bother
As Rels said earlier, this is a piss-poor reason to start doubting a scum-read when a) scum 100% would want to defend themselves so that they...don't get lynched and b) time-zones/ RL commitments can also influence if someone arrives at EOD.
That's not a strong enough explanation to make anyone doubt themselves about a read, especially after the case that Jealous made where he concluded 'scum'. The mere act of posting at EOD when you are being voted has jack shit to do with your alignment.
Furthermore, he wasn't interested in switching wagons from DYH so I see no logical or emotional motivation for this sudden doubt. Thus I'm concluding that he's full of shit. That post had him stretching so hard for an excuse to distance from the ML that he sprained a muscle.
Yeah this got my attention during EOD as well. Jealous was very quick to throw out the idea of DYH being town for bad reasons. Scums are most likely in Jealous / Stutters / scott
One point would be that scott was scumread by both night-killed people.
Hmm. Actually Rels' read progression is pretty weird, but he's town, so it's whatever. Basically it went scott/DYH/Jealous for N1 -> DYH/Xatalos for D2 -> Jealous / Stutters / scott for N2, and not much explanation if any for the changes.
On October 01 2016 01:08 Xatalos wrote: Finally back. Expected Calix over Rels, but maybe dodged or something.
On September 30 2016 09:59 DanelerH wrote: Thank you for the answers, Scott. Now I have a question for Xatalos:
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: Stutters A more controversial pick for green color, perhaps, but I agree with whoever said that it would be extremely rare for scum to immediately throw a strong townread on their teammate like Lunatic did. It would only link them together in everyone's minds (something scum would definitely not want) and make the other look bad/scum if the other flips. In addition, it wouldn't come naturally as a careless throwaway comment like how Lunatic said it. It just fits so much better as a casual, too strong townread on someone he would know to be town in advance. Also, I have an interesting theory related to Stutters, but that's best left for later.
I'm interested in this theory you have that's related to Stutters. Mind sharing it? I'm assuming it relates to the second good reason you have to Town-read Stutters. + Show Spoiler +
On September 29 2016 07:08 Xatalos wrote: Hm. stutters didn't vote?
There are still two good reasons to townread him, but his play is really...
Sorry, it's confidential for now... And not entirely certain. I'll say my thought there when the time is right.
However, I'll counter by asking... Where are you going with these questions to different players?
Sorry, it's confidential for now...
In all serious, though, I noticed a correlation between Superbia and Rels. They were both suspicious of Scott, which is why I started by questioning xem. Judging by Scott's answers, I feel like xe might be leaning Town. They were also both suspicious of you, so I questioned you next. Based on your answer, you're sounding less Town.
On September 29 2016 06:48 Jealous wrote: I petition that if DYH is scum, and Stutters doesn't vote, that the game ends here and we get all the trophies.
I will get the trophies and you will be jealous
Your vote is on Skynx hahahahaha
Oh yeah.... Gotta change that I guess
So what was your reason sr'ing DYH again? It should be quite something to deviate you from your course of eliminating your top sr target mr Skynx.
It truly did not matter what I voted at that point in time. I just switched to DYH after Jealous mentioned that I wouldn't be getting any glory from the lynch since I wasn't even voting for him. Sadly it was in vain :/
Meh. I think there's just seriously something I'm missing here.
On September 29 2016 22:17 Calix wrote: So I decided to look back through the posts leading up to the ML and I think Jealous has the most questionable sequence with regards to his DYH read.
On September 28 2016 08:31 Jealous wrote: It seems like people have mostly vocally agreed on DYH with a few exceptions, but I don't see the votes on him. I'll construct my case on him then, just so that it's out there. I was going to revisit Stutters but I see DYH as priority right now. Working.
On September 24 2016 11:26 DoYouHas wrote: I think I like you as well Stutters. Good on ya.
- I'll try to get into something beyond these gut reads tomorrow, hopefully when a few more people have posted. As is I'm pretty happy with tonight. 3/5 for my town pile and 2 I need to think about and watch. Gnight.
Promises more substance tomorrow, let's see if he delivers.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
He's been gone for almost 24 hours and comes back with this. For reference, Stutters was making a case on SEQ and told people to go look at SEQ filter. DYH is basically saying "okay, I'll do what you suggest to check out your scumread and work with you, but only if you give me your thoughts on ptmc, about whom I haven't said a word yet." I don't know if this is very townie behavior. Why wouldn't he just give his thoughts on SEQ and then ask about ptmc?
Interesting post from Xata on this, prior to DoYouHas' return:
On September 25 2016 06:50 Xatalos wrote: DoYouHas did make quite a bit of posts earlier btw.
6 posts, only 4 of which were during the game, and none of which had substance besides 3 gut reads. Is this really worth commenting on? Is this really "quite a bit?" Hmm.
On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote: The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded.
It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum?
On September 25 2016 10:53 DoYouHas wrote: So is it bad enough that you would want to lynch him or do you currently have a stronger scum read on someone else currently?
On September 25 2016 11:09 DoYouHas wrote: @Jealous, are you in and out? Why is it taking you this long to respond to me?
As Tictock pointed out, DYH seems to be pressuring me more than Lunatic despite (at least superficially) agreeing with me that Lunatic is playing anti-town. In fact, DYH hadn't said a word about Lunatic at all up until this point. Surely he saw the post? Why ignore Lunatic? Why jump on me?
On September 26 2016 03:43 Superbia wrote: I need a champion.
You have Giacomo! (so long as you are leading against DH, Luna, or Jealous)
So he throws Luna into the mix now that Luna has drawn attention but dilutes it by throwing two other names in there, neither of which he had mentioned until now. The only person he had really said anything of substance about until here is SEQ, besides his gutreads at the start of the game. (Also, he didn't really contribute anything in over 27 hours, despite promising to do so). This is his first time calling any of the three scum, and does it in a way that provides no substance whatsoever.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
Here he elaborates, imaginably because he is trying to get Superbia to sheep him. Doesn't like DH for scumreading Luna, despite also saying Luna is "possible scum," and then puts me in the same group again. Note, I was against Luna at the time as well. How would that team of 3 ever make sense? Both I and DH go for a bus halfway through D1 when there were only a handful of pages and posts, after telling Lunatic to post like an idiot? That's a stretch, and DYH makes no sense here otherwise.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
So uh.
Read on DH is pre-flip association or what?
I don't think Luna and Dane are likely to be scum together, but taking there play individually I think either of them could be scum here. Is that what you meant?
I guess this explains the previous post somewhat, but he only makes the distinction when asked by Superbia? You would think that would be something you'd want to put in your post that is supposed to be informative to Superbia, and not only when probed further. In short, he threw out three scum reads he had never mentioned until then, then elaborated on it, but didn't mention he didn't think they were on a team together. That's careless at best; misleading seems more likely.
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
On September 25 2016 11:02 DoYouHas wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond.
Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also.
SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it.
Calix is right. The sequence seems pretty forced. DYH said "I'll exchange your read on ptmc for my read on SEQ" when his read on SEQ is null. And it also looks like he was waiting of Stutters to go "OK what's your read on SEQ now ?"; but Stutters didn't, and DYH said it anyway. It looks like it was planned to appear to have a conversation.
Or maybe, just maybe, both of your assumptions are wrong here.
1. I wasn't providing a null read on SEQ 2. I was actually trying to have a conversation with someone I townread.
Stutters being the "someone I townread," which he did with "gut" in the first few hours of the game, which he never mentioned again. Also note that he still hasn't provided anything as he had promised at the start.
On September 26 2016 11:56 DoYouHas wrote: GRAH, I CAN'T MAKE IT STICK
For everything I don't like about you and think makes you scum: Your early fluff, non-committal, over-defensiveness, appeals to your noobieness, misrepresenting me, buddying Calix, looking at the proposal of multiple wagons from a mafia perspective instead of a town one (looking at it as a trap to be avoided instead of as an opportunity for better VCA) I can't seem to find the mafia actions in your play around the lynch. If I'm having trouble convincing myself of probably the most important part when I undoubtedly have my confirmation bias glasses on it probably isn't there. I was seeing your tonal shifts from casually attacking Luna to guarded consideration then back to casual attacking as very odd. But the thing I can't figure out if you are scum is why you would leave your vote on Luna and not Stutters before the wagon on Luna got rolling. This post:
On September 25 2016 17:17 Jealous wrote: I have to agree with Calix on the more anti-town part. ## Lunaticman just in case I don't make it back.
It doesn't fit or is significantly more clever than I am.
Damn, damn, damn. I hate having no scum reads. I really do need to get to bed though. See you all with the daypost.
This takes him a whole hour and he calls me all sorts of terrible but still can't make a case. This means he is town/null-reading everyone in the game, was pushing a lynch/scumread since his first few posts D1 that he himself can't support and had given no concrete evidence on at all until he was forced to draw some out. That is simply foolish, and scummy in my book.
These are his last two posts, nearly a day ago. And frankly, I don't think they are very good. Although I think Rels post did have some stuff I didn't agree with, and DYH pointed them out, the rest of it was pretty weak. He doesn't make much sense in some parts nor does he substantiate much of his argument about why DH or I were scummy, which he references a few times. His earlier posts on the subject were, as you can see above, were weak as well, so it's not like he could reference some strong analysis from before.
Overall, I think DYH is scum. I don't think neither Xata nor skynx are worth a vote right now, but I will definitely look into them more in detail. There are still some fishy things I don't like about Xata and Skynx doesn't seem to be paying much attention to the game in certain posts of his, which I don't like but can't necessarily say is scummy until I see them side-by-side in analysis.
So yea, I voted DYH.
He acknowledges that DYH is someone that pretty much everyone agrees is scummy, yet he thinks that it's a good use of his time to make a massive case against him and hop on the train because 'he doesn't have that many votes on him'. Keep in mind that DYH is the leading train at this point with the Xatalos/ Skynx thing being supported by almost nobody save for each other and Stutters having a few supporters. That is it. The Stutters train was not even a thing for most of the day.
He references a fair number of arguments used by other players (TT, myself, etc) and the points he added aren't anything massively incriminating in retrospect. My point? It makes me wonder why Jealous felt the need to devote a large amount of his time to a case on someone that he was already scum-reading given that he largely rehashes the arguments of other players and this is all on a player that he's already given opinions on. That's not a case of bad priorities, that's posting for the hell of it.
If you want an example of not-scummy points he raised, look no further than him criticising DYH for going "Lunatic, Jealous, DanelerH are my scum-reads" because "that team makes no sense". This is all fine and dandy...if we were talking about a post made on Day 4. That's not the case though; he's talking about reads made early on Day 1. Most players do not consider associative tells that early on in the game because the goal is to lynch a scum. Until then, you have no concrete information to base associative reads from so criticising DYH for that is nit-picky and doesn't add anything to the argument.
This is also one of the worst EOD posts:
On September 29 2016 06:40 Jealous wrote: I'm starting to WIFOM over the fact that DYH showed up just before EoD when the train is on him. Like, would a scum normally do this? I don't think I would lol. The reason it's WIFOM is because maybe he is trying to make people doubt his scumminess last second and shenanie? I'm locked in but I'll feel a little bad about it if he flips town ):
As you can see, he is showing some doubt over DYH flipping scum. That's all fine, nothing to see there, but his reasoning is absolutely insane.
tl;dr:
- DYH showed up when he got voted - Scum wouldn't bother to turn up because scum!Jealous would not bother
As Rels said earlier, this is a piss-poor reason to start doubting a scum-read when a) scum 100% would want to defend themselves so that they...don't get lynched and b) time-zones/ RL commitments can also influence if someone arrives at EOD.
That's not a strong enough explanation to make anyone doubt themselves about a read, especially after the case that Jealous made where he concluded 'scum'. The mere act of posting at EOD when you are being voted has jack shit to do with your alignment.
Furthermore, he wasn't interested in switching wagons from DYH so I see no logical or emotional motivation for this sudden doubt. Thus I'm concluding that he's full of shit. That post had him stretching so hard for an excuse to distance from the ML that he sprained a muscle.
I don't think this makes Jealous scum. If you're scum why just not vote DYH without giving any reason and live happily ever after
On September 29 2016 06:24 Calix wrote: Actually I have one question. DYH, who are you going to vote for and why? Don't spend ages on answering this, lol.
##Vote: Scott
I've been thinking about Superbia's kill. There are 4 reasons I can think of for it.
1. Medic dodge. 2. Town is off track, didn't want a fresh vet voice changing things 3. Superbia is on right track 4. WIFOM salad
#1 is obviously the case. With their RB gone they aren't going to target Calix (most townread person N1). #2 is iffy. Obviously taking out a fresh voice in Superbia accomplishes this, but he isn't heavily townread and he has stated repeatedly that he was going to be lazy this game. #3 is the most likely case. After losing your RB the first night you can't risk someone with correct suspicions putting you down 0-2. Most common reason to kill someone, also makes the most sense from the mafia perspective this game. #4 is very unlikely. There are too many people who have established themselves decently as town, too many people more productive than Superbia.
##Vote DHY
???
There you go guys, 3 manners of voting on an already happening lynch. Suit yourselves.
Bleh.. I always return to the fact that scum simply has to reside within Skynx/scott. Both make good sense with partners for Lunatic. Both are left after process of elimination. Both are scumreading me for... basically having doubts about them. Skynx is more probable as Lunatic's partner, and NK analysis favors scott.
In any case, they should be both lynched over stutters every time.
If stutters keeps getting votes, I'll probably need to share my other reason. But the first reason (Lunatic's scum->town-like reaction to stutters) is already pretty clear.
On September 29 2016 15:05 ptmc wrote: So stutters is modkilled at EON?
Sorry guys. I got really busy.
Just a warning this time. Won't be modkilled.
Jesus tit-sucking Christ, that's a shameless mod-dodge if I ever saw one. Doesn't even comment on the fucking game.
At this point, he needs to be policy-lynched now rather than later to clear shit up. He's a black hole that makes it difficult to judge other players and the discussion around him is getting stale because he does nothing.
He's already survived two days longer than he should have done and that was back when he was actually posting.
Gotta admit that his play has been subpar at best... It's subpar as either alignment though, not merely subpar as town.
On September 29 2016 15:05 ptmc wrote: So stutters is modkilled at EON?
Sorry guys. I got really busy.
Just a warning this time. Won't be modkilled.
Jesus tit-sucking Christ, that's a shameless mod-dodge if I ever saw one. Doesn't even comment on the fucking game.
At this point, he needs to be policy-lynched now rather than later to clear shit up. He's a black hole that makes it difficult to judge other players and the discussion around him is getting stale because he does nothing.
He's already survived two days longer than he should have done and that was back when he was actually posting.
Gotta admit that his play has been subpar at best... It's subpar as either alignment though, not merely subpar as town.
Outside of that scum game Scott linked, my scum record is pretty dope.
I'd like to hear your other point on me however. Honestly, if I was looking at me from the outside, I'd want me dead as well.
I'll say it tomorrow, if it looks like you'll be lynched otherwise. It'd be better though if you could actually, you know, play the game
On October 01 2016 01:08 Xatalos wrote: Finally back. Expected Calix over Rels, but maybe dodged or something.
On September 30 2016 09:59 DanelerH wrote: Thank you for the answers, Scott. Now I have a question for Xatalos:
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: Stutters A more controversial pick for green color, perhaps, but I agree with whoever said that it would be extremely rare for scum to immediately throw a strong townread on their teammate like Lunatic did. It would only link them together in everyone's minds (something scum would definitely not want) and make the other look bad/scum if the other flips. In addition, it wouldn't come naturally as a careless throwaway comment like how Lunatic said it. It just fits so much better as a casual, too strong townread on someone he would know to be town in advance. Also, I have an interesting theory related to Stutters, but that's best left for later.
I'm interested in this theory you have that's related to Stutters. Mind sharing it? I'm assuming it relates to the second good reason you have to Town-read Stutters. + Show Spoiler +
On September 29 2016 07:08 Xatalos wrote: Hm. stutters didn't vote?
There are still two good reasons to townread him, but his play is really...
Sorry, it's confidential for now... And not entirely certain. I'll say my thought there when the time is right.
However, I'll counter by asking... Where are you going with these questions to different players?
Sorry, it's confidential for now...
In all serious, though, I noticed a correlation between Superbia and Rels. They were both suspicious of Scott, which is why I started by questioning xem. Judging by Scott's answers, I feel like xe might be leaning Town. They were also both suspicious of you, so I questioned you next. Based on your answer, you're sounding less Town.
Can you expand on what you thought was towny about Scott's response and what was scummy about Xata's?
I don't like how Xatalos is unwilling to share the theory about Stutters. For Scott, the answers were straightforward and sounded like they came from Town.
Not really sure how that logic dictates town or scum.
On October 01 2016 02:55 Xatalos wrote: In any case, they should be both lynched over stutters every time.
If stutters keeps getting votes, I'll probably need to share my other reason. But the first reason (Lunatic's scum->town-like reaction to stutters) is already pretty clear.
What the fuck is the point of hiding your reasoning? It's a town-read, not nuclear codes.
Your evasiveness is similar to Lunatic's evasion of his Stutters town-read and it's been noted.
On September 29 2016 15:05 ptmc wrote: So stutters is modkilled at EON?
Sorry guys. I got really busy.
Just a warning this time. Won't be modkilled.
Jesus tit-sucking Christ, that's a shameless mod-dodge if I ever saw one. Doesn't even comment on the fucking game.
At this point, he needs to be policy-lynched now rather than later to clear shit up. He's a black hole that makes it difficult to judge other players and the discussion around him is getting stale because he does nothing.
He's already survived two days longer than he should have done and that was back when he was actually posting.
Gotta admit that his play has been subpar at best... It's subpar as either alignment though, not merely subpar as town.
It's a bloody good thing I went out for a walk in a park today. I have some lovely pictures of hedges which remind me of your posts.
It's safest to have your reads like this. You can always say you were right in the post-game.
In all seriousness, though, you misread my post. I didn't say that stutters was bad town/scum. What I said there was that stutters is probably town, and his subpar play from town-perspective doesn't necessarily make him scum, as this play would have been almost equally subpar for a scumster.
On October 01 2016 03:55 Calix wrote: "I'll keep waving around a promise of a super-special contribution on the leading train in lieu of actual contribution."
On October 01 2016 02:55 Xatalos wrote: In any case, they should be both lynched over stutters every time.
If stutters keeps getting votes, I'll probably need to share my other reason. But the first reason (Lunatic's scum->town-like reaction to stutters) is already pretty clear.
Lets play a game...
Just based on posts made from the start of this Phase, who would you vote between Scott/Skynx?
At least a sentence as to why as well plz.
Oh yeah, forgot this post.
scott maybe. Didn't really like his post asking for what actions to take today from you (too consensus-blendy). His post against stutters was also a bit WTF (that's a reason to suspect him, like really now?). His reasons to suspect me were also pretty forced and sudden.
Skynx didn't really do anything of note today.
So yeah, scott has started to look worse lately. Maybe he would even be the safer bet at this rate.
On October 01 2016 03:55 Calix wrote: "I'll keep waving around a promise of a super-special contribution on the leading train in lieu of actual contribution."
- You
I have my reasons.
K. I haven't fully re-read your filter yet, but what are your thoughts on Scott?
Hanging around the spot of most likely scum with Skynx.
On September 29 2016 15:05 ptmc wrote: So stutters is modkilled at EON?
Sorry guys. I got really busy.
Just a warning this time. Won't be modkilled.
Jesus tit-sucking Christ, that's a shameless mod-dodge if I ever saw one. Doesn't even comment on the fucking game.
At this point, he needs to be policy-lynched now rather than later to clear shit up. He's a black hole that makes it difficult to judge other players and the discussion around him is getting stale because he does nothing.
He's already survived two days longer than he should have done and that was back when he was actually posting.
Gotta admit that his play has been subpar at best... It's subpar as either alignment though, not merely subpar as town.
Outside of that scum game Scott linked, my scum record is pretty dope.
I'd like to hear your other point on me however. Honestly, if I was looking at me from the outside, I'd want me dead as well.
I'll say it tomorrow, if it looks like you'll be lynched otherwise. It'd be better though if you could actually, you know, play the game
if you want to change my vote you have like 5 mins max, since ill be off by then.
On September 29 2016 15:05 ptmc wrote: So stutters is modkilled at EON?
Sorry guys. I got really busy.
Just a warning this time. Won't be modkilled.
Jesus tit-sucking Christ, that's a shameless mod-dodge if I ever saw one. Doesn't even comment on the fucking game.
At this point, he needs to be policy-lynched now rather than later to clear shit up. He's a black hole that makes it difficult to judge other players and the discussion around him is getting stale because he does nothing.
He's already survived two days longer than he should have done and that was back when he was actually posting.
Gotta admit that his play has been subpar at best... It's subpar as either alignment though, not merely subpar as town.
Outside of that scum game Scott linked, my scum record is pretty dope.
I'd like to hear your other point on me however. Honestly, if I was looking at me from the outside, I'd want me dead as well.
I'll say it tomorrow, if it looks like you'll be lynched otherwise. It'd be better though if you could actually, you know, play the game
if you want to change my vote you have like 5 mins max, since ill be off by then.
You won't be online until deadline, really?
I'll be online next time on tuesday (mb monday evening), yes.
......Still I'd rather not say it yet. I don't think one vote would make the difference.
On October 01 2016 03:55 Calix wrote: "I'll keep waving around a promise of a super-special contribution on the leading train in lieu of actual contribution."
- You
I have my reasons.
K. I haven't fully re-read your filter yet, but what are your thoughts on Scott?
Hanging around the spot of most likely scum with Skynx.
Cool.
Unrelated, but have you done giant list posts on possible scum teams in other games?
Sadly, the main result of that analysis was that DYH didn't really fit into many scumteams (except maybe with scott), and that's already irrelevant now.
On October 01 2016 02:55 Xatalos wrote: In any case, they should be both lynched over stutters every time.
If stutters keeps getting votes, I'll probably need to share my other reason. But the first reason (Lunatic's scum->town-like reaction to stutters) is already pretty clear.
Lets play a game...
Just based on posts made from the start of this Phase, who would you vote between Scott/Skynx?
At least a sentence as to why as well plz.
Oh yeah, forgot this post.
scott maybe. Didn't really like his post asking for what actions to take today from you (too consensus-blendy). His post against stutters was also a bit WTF (that's a reason to suspect him, like really now?). His reasons to suspect me were also pretty forced and sudden.
Skynx didn't really do anything of note today.
So yeah, scott has started to look worse lately. Maybe he would even be the safer bet at this rate.
Why?
Not sure that you've ever really given a proper scumread on Skynx. If my glance through your filter is correct that read started because of your team speculation post.
It started to develop from reading ptmc's giant event listing post and he became a solid scumread sometime after that when I read his filter. My first case on him was pretty flawed though, you can pretty much ignore it (and seems like you did lol). Focused on little additional details in that rather than the main points that were already mentioned by ptmc. In my association thingy I did a more comprehensive listing of my reads, including a small, more focused case on Skynx (focusing heavily on the Lunatic association). Afterwards noticed some more things such as his huge tunnel on me after I started suspecting him, which felt too strong for whatever reasons he said.
And process of elimination doesn't leave much room for Skynx to be town either at this point.
On October 01 2016 04:32 Xatalos wrote: Sadly, the main result of that analysis was that DYH didn't really fit into many scumteams (except maybe with scott), and that's already irrelevant now.
Its cool. That post just bothered me a bit but with how much you post it wasn't worth reading old games.
On October 01 2016 05:24 Tictock wrote: I'll write up a case on Scott later.
His push on Stutters seemed really out of place to me. He asked my opinion, then ignored my response to make a bad push on somebody who hasn't been around and everyone is scum reading anyways.
A few other things feel like they are falling into place considering Scott as scum as well, but I'm still mulling things over.
Would be interested to hear those "other things" before deadline.
Agreed that his play in this phase has been probably the most concerning out of anyone. Definitely more so than stutters.
On October 01 2016 19:20 Calix wrote: You're forgetting that the weekend's started. A drop in activity is only to be expected.
I'm popping out in five. I'll look him over when I get back and I'll probably be around for EOD.
Pfft, you people with lives...
As for the scott post, I agree that his sudden shift to scumreading me felt too forced/strong. More like he decided to push me and threw some reasons as an afterthought. Same with how he treated stutters. I have no idea how a townie could read stutters' joke posts about my meta and come to the conclusion that it makes stutters scum.. Even more so, if the scumteam was me+stutters (like scott suggested), how would that whole theory even make sense? stutters would have "pushed" me with fake meta, and for what reason? I could maybe somehow understand the idea behind it (even if it would make little sense) if he thought I was town and stutters scum, but his reason to scumread stutters just makes no sense if he's sure I'm scum with stutters... Absolutely no sense at all.
Yeah, scott is the way to go. How would town even make that post reminding the Cop that his checks are "almost meaningless"? Especially right after night ended where he was under suspicion? Town scott wouldn't feel threatened in that situation, but scum scott certainly would.
I hope people will see the light about scott so that I won't have to tell my other reasoning on stutters. It would almost certainly be detrimental if I had to do that.
Well, it wasn't really about what your reads were at that point, scott, but how they changed over time. Even if you have the same reads as someone, it doesn't mean you're the same alignment, especially if the path you took to arrive at those reads doesn't make sense.
On October 02 2016 04:30 Stutters695 wrote: I'm town guys. I truly am sorry for not being more active.
Anyway, once I flip town:
Lynch Scott. Last scum is hiding somewhere between Skynx, ptmc, TT and jealous. I'll try to read them before I get lynched.
Don't lynch Xata tomorrow.
##vote: scott31337
Please start shooting townie rainbows all over me to A) prevent me from having to do something possibly stupid if you're town and especially to B) make sure you're actually town and I'm not doing something truly terrible. If you can do that, that would be the absolute best scenario.
On October 02 2016 03:54 Tictock wrote: Also sorta spite for Xata trying to make this "I've got info that proves he's town but I don't wanna say it yet" shit.
On October 02 2016 04:30 Stutters695 wrote: I'm town guys. I truly am sorry for not being more active.
Anyway, once I flip town:
Lynch Scott. Last scum is hiding somewhere between Skynx, ptmc, TT and jealous. I'll try to read them before I get lynched.
Don't lynch Xata tomorrow.
##vote: scott31337
Please start shooting townie rainbows all over me to A) prevent me from having to do something possibly stupid if you're town and especially to B) make sure you're actually town and I'm not doing something truly terrible. If you can do that, that would be the absolute best scenario.
On October 02 2016 04:30 Stutters695 wrote: I'm town guys. I truly am sorry for not being more active.
Anyway, once I flip town:
Lynch Scott. Last scum is hiding somewhere between Skynx, ptmc, TT and jealous. I'll try to read them before I get lynched.
Don't lynch Xata tomorrow.
##vote: scott31337
Please start shooting townie rainbows all over me to A) prevent me from having to do something possibly stupid if you're town and especially to B) make sure you're actually town and I'm not doing something truly terrible. If you can do that, that would be the absolute best scenario.
Just don't lol. It's ok if I die.
This post actually changes some things.
But ask yourselves: would scum stutters make this post? Or would town stutters?
I guess now is the time to share my thoughts on stutters. More on "why" later.
First of all, I don't really know his meta/playstyle. Just looking at this game, though, there are a couple of things which made me lean town on him initially:
1) Careless posting style - the way he entered the thread was sure to attract attention, and not in a positive way - attention that would put him under the spotlight and make it harder for him to push any sort of scum agenda freely. When I imagine a typical scum opening post, it would be safe and blend in with the surroundings. The way stutters entered the game was nothing like that.
2) General lack of care for what others thought of him - I don't think I saw one post from him that felt like he was "posting for the sake of posting / looking better". His posts were a bit controversial all around during D1.
3) Of course, Lunatic's flip made stutters look quite a bit better as well. It would be extremely stupid for scum (Lunatic) to just casually townread his teammate for no good reason. After all, scum would want to distance themselves from each other appearance-wise, while perhaps subtly helping each other through their actions. But what Lunatic did achieved neither - it just put pressure/attention on them both and didn't help stutters in any way either. Occam's razor says it should be just scum giving a townread on some townie to blend in and perhaps pocket said townie.
Now we get to the "secret" part. Unfortunately, I'm far less confident in this theory now than I was earlier today. In any case, here it is.
First of all, this post made me think of something:
On September 27 2016 00:01 Stutters695 wrote: Here's what's going to happen. I'm going to type some stuff up. Usually I would wait until EoD, but I work before then so I'll just throw it out. You guys will be like "wow, he does things and they make some sense, this dude is probably town." Just know you're cutting into my Overwatch time and that makes me sad.
I have 100% confidence I won't be lynched.
Who would have the most confidence in not being lynched? A blue player of course. Perhaps a VT/scum with some huge confidence, but it didn't seem like stutters was capable of that sort of extreme feats to clear himself just through his play. Why even say this as VT or especially scum? It would just put more pressure on himself to perform and make things harder for himself in the following days. The only time I've said something like this, I've been blue (2 times I've said a similar line AFAIK and I was blue both times). I'm pretty sure I've also seen another player saying this as blue. A situation where a scum said this doesn't come to my mind.
Moving on...
Considering stutters' play as a whole, he seemed to follow the thread very closely (even pointing out short sentences in long posts such as the Jealous thing), but didn't explain his thoughts too much. From scum, I would expect the opposite (not being very interested in what's actually happening but trying to make a good appearance). Whereas for blue play, it would make absolute sense (being extremely interested in small details going on in the game, but not daring to say much in order to avoid being shot).
Granted, stutters seems to have been AFK for quite a while in between, but the times he was actively reading the thread he didn't post very much either.
So, why reveal all this now? Because the whole theory largely came crumbling down after he said this:
On October 02 2016 04:30 Stutters695 wrote: I'm town guys. I truly am sorry for not being more active.
Anyway, once I flip town:
Lynch Scott. Last scum is hiding somewhere between Skynx, ptmc, TT and jealous. I'll try to read them before I get lynched.
Don't lynch Xata tomorrow.
##vote: scott31337
Please start shooting townie rainbows all over me to A) prevent me from having to do something possibly stupid if you're town and especially to B) make sure you're actually town and I'm not doing something truly terrible. If you can do that, that would be the absolute best scenario.
Just don't lol. It's ok if I die.
A blue would never say this. At least I would never say it as blue. So... He's either VT/scum or in an extremely WIFOMy mood. But I think VT is more likely since scum would have little motivation to say something like this either. Like... what would scum have to lose by having me say something "damaging for town"? It just makes no sense to reject that development. For all he knows, I might have been preparing to say a green-check on him or something (let's consider the scenario where he was Godfather and I was saying that I had "secret evidence" of him being town - who the hell scum would reject me saying it out loud in that situation?). So, as scum, it would be extremely foolish to make that post.
That's it. He's probably not blue after all, but more likely town than scum still.
On October 02 2016 06:03 Calix wrote: Can we let the meta thing die? That Xat/ Stutters comment has been inflated to legendary proportions.
Xatalos' post boils down to tone, attitude and associations which aren't terrible reasons actually, but the first half of that post didn't need to be hidden.
That TPR part is literally Lunatic 2.0. At least this time, I can see why someone would conclude that he's a TPR from his posts although I think that's just Stutters being cocky. I think Rels came to a similar conclusion re: Stutters being a TPR.
The earlier part of my post had been already written in my filter, maybe not as neatly collected.
"Cocky" doesn't really explain the rest apart from his "I'll never be lynched" moment.
On October 02 2016 06:14 Stutters695 wrote: At this point if I was a blue I would have claimed it to not get lynched or at least trade with the cc.
Yeah, that's true too. I thought you might be hiding it until closer to deadline earlier today, but now it would have certainly been the time to claim.
(by the way, I once refused to claim as Cop as the leading wagon until there was only 30min until lynch - the funny thing is, I was just getting ready to claim when one of the scumsters slipped - bagging us a scum lynch without me having to claim!)
Calix, think about it. Read my earlier post with clear thoughts. Isn't it quite a bit more likely that scott is scum here? There's still time to change the result.
On October 02 2016 06:35 Jealous wrote: Both cases have pretty big holes imo, and both Scott and a stutters are doing a decent job of playing town coming towards eod. Overall, I'd have to say the case on Scott is marginally stronger, and I'm surprised Calix is defending him like this. Maybe Calix thinks her trains are always best trains, which I can empathize with. Anyway, I'm voting for what I see not what I presume.
Nothing much has changed in regards to potential scum. scott is probably always scum at this point, and the last should be Skynx/Jealous. If not, scum Tictock/Calix has played well. Upcoming blue claims etc. should clear that up anyway.
I guess it depends on the roles. There's probably no Vig since there hasn't been a shot yet. There's certainly a Doc/Vet. If it's Doc+Vet, not much use to claim, but if there's a Cop, it could be enough to solve the game by now. Well, maybe. I guess it's up to him. There's still a GF but it should be enough to eliminate several possible scumteam combinations from these:
On October 04 2016 03:18 Tictock wrote: That post you quoted was right after the lynch Skynx, not right before Daypost.
I do kinda like your point though.
Actually if I were to rate everyone in the game I would say Jealous and Calix have been the most sidelined players.
By that I mean they aren't doing much thats Super towny and they aren't doing anything that raises an eyebrow. Like I stand by what I said about Xata putting so much effort into that Stutters read vs his scumreads, but at the same time that doesn't fit mafia play at all. It just stands out like a sore thumb.
It's really hard to solve the game since most people aren't doing enough of anything noteworthy in the game. Myself included, kinda. I'm pretty sure scott is scum now, but with how this game has been, it's getting harder to clear even Dan/Calix for their D1 stuff anymore.. I was quite sure of stutters being town, at least. Too bad he was the one who got lynched even so....
Well, I sure hope you're town or there's not going to be much of town thread presence left at this rate.
On October 04 2016 03:18 Tictock wrote: That post you quoted was right after the lynch Skynx, not right before Daypost.
I do kinda like your point though.
Actually if I were to rate everyone in the game I would say Jealous and Calix have been the most sidelined players.
By that I mean they aren't doing much thats Super towny and they aren't doing anything that raises an eyebrow. Like I stand by what I said about Xata putting so much effort into that Stutters read vs his scumreads, but at the same time that doesn't fit mafia play at all. It just stands out like a sore thumb.
It's really hard to solve the game since most people aren't doing enough of anything noteworthy in the game. Myself included, kinda. I'm pretty sure scott is scum now, but with how this game has been, it's getting harder to clear even Dan/Calix for their D1 stuff anymore.. I was quite sure of stutters being town, at least. Too bad he was the one who got lynched even so....
Well, I sure hope you're town or there's not going to be much of town thread presence left at this rate.
I'm not sure how much more obv town I can get, and it's a problem imo if I'm the towniest person in the game
Can we play another game?
Comparing Scott and Calix, who's posts have a more cautious constructed nature to them?
Hm. Calix doesn't seem like he's shared much of his thoughts. Mostly questions. scott has shared, but they've been pretty much safe/sheepish reads (for example, some pretty random/NAI reasons to scumread me after it became fashionable).
I guess you could say Calix would have been more careful in the sense that he hasn't pushed much of anything lately.
On October 04 2016 03:18 Tictock wrote: That post you quoted was right after the lynch Skynx, not right before Daypost.
I do kinda like your point though.
Actually if I were to rate everyone in the game I would say Jealous and Calix have been the most sidelined players.
By that I mean they aren't doing much thats Super towny and they aren't doing anything that raises an eyebrow. Like I stand by what I said about Xata putting so much effort into that Stutters read vs his scumreads, but at the same time that doesn't fit mafia play at all. It just stands out like a sore thumb.
It's really hard to solve the game since most people aren't doing enough of anything noteworthy in the game. Myself included, kinda. I'm pretty sure scott is scum now, but with how this game has been, it's getting harder to clear even Dan/Calix for their D1 stuff anymore.. I was quite sure of stutters being town, at least. Too bad he was the one who got lynched even so....
Well, I sure hope you're town or there's not going to be much of town thread presence left at this rate.
I'm not sure how much more obv town I can get, and it's a problem imo if I'm the towniest person in the game
Can we play another game?
Comparing Scott and Calix, who's posts have a more cautious constructed nature to them?
Hm. Calix doesn't seem like he's shared much of his thoughts. Mostly questions. scott has shared, but they've been pretty much safe/sheepish reads (for example, some pretty random/NAI reasons to scumread me after it became fashionable).
I guess you could say Calix would have been more careful in the sense that he hasn't pushed much of anything lately.
That seems like a pretty fair assessment.
I like that Calix seems to consider stuff from a few points of view, but I also can't help but get the sense that Calix is the caliber of player that can use logic and reason as a front pretty well.
Since you like doing team stuff, would a Calix/Jeal team make sense to you or maybe a Calix/Scott?
No need to go too deep with this, just speculating.
Hm. I guess both could be possible. Calix maybe a bit better since he actively went for stutters over scott. Jealous voted for scott in the end, but then the result was already decided, so it doesn't really rule it out. This is just considering the last cycle. Getting too tired to read through possible earlier interactions with scott.
On October 04 2016 03:18 Tictock wrote: That post you quoted was right after the lynch Skynx, not right before Daypost.
I do kinda like your point though.
Actually if I were to rate everyone in the game I would say Jealous and Calix have been the most sidelined players.
By that I mean they aren't doing much thats Super towny and they aren't doing anything that raises an eyebrow. Like I stand by what I said about Xata putting so much effort into that Stutters read vs his scumreads, but at the same time that doesn't fit mafia play at all. It just stands out like a sore thumb.
It's really hard to solve the game since most people aren't doing enough of anything noteworthy in the game. Myself included, kinda. I'm pretty sure scott is scum now, but with how this game has been, it's getting harder to clear even Dan/Calix for their D1 stuff anymore.. I was quite sure of stutters being town, at least. Too bad he was the one who got lynched even so....
Well, I sure hope you're town or there's not going to be much of town thread presence left at this rate.
I'm not sure how much more obv town I can get, and it's a problem imo if I'm the towniest person in the game
Can we play another game?
Comparing Scott and Calix, who's posts have a more cautious constructed nature to them?
Hm. Calix doesn't seem like he's shared much of his thoughts. Mostly questions. scott has shared, but they've been pretty much safe/sheepish reads (for example, some pretty random/NAI reasons to scumread me after it became fashionable).
I guess you could say Calix would have been more careful in the sense that he hasn't pushed much of anything lately.
That seems like a pretty fair assessment.
I like that Calix seems to consider stuff from a few points of view, but I also can't help but get the sense that Calix is the caliber of player that can use logic and reason as a front pretty well.
Since you like doing team stuff, would a Calix/Jeal team make sense to you or maybe a Calix/Scott?
No need to go too deep with this, just speculating.
Hm. I guess both could be possible. Calix maybe a bit better since he actively went for stutters over scott. Jealous voted for scott in the end, but then the result was already decided, so it doesn't really rule it out. This is just considering the last cycle. Getting too tired to read through possible earlier interactions with scott.
Oh, I misread that as Jealous/scott. Calix/Jealous... No idea. I don't remember them doing anything with each other.
On October 04 2016 05:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote: It's fairly unfortunate that the mafia team wifomed themselves into believing Calix was checked. I also believe Xatalos still had a chance to win it as DanelerH, Scott and Jealous were viable mislynches even if Calix had been checked.
The early game decision to bus Lunaticman ended up breaking the back of the scumteam. I don't think it was necessary with the thread pull Xatalos and Calix had.
All that said, I felt like a bunch of players did well in varying sections of the game. Calix and Xata played a fantastic early game in terms of getting townread. Tictock played very well when he subbed in and Skynx and ptmc managed to get themselves strongly townread as well.
Feel free to share your coaching QT's if you feel happy to do so and think someone else may get something out of it.
I don't think it's very realistic for me to mislynch all 3 in a row... Maybe 2 in a far-fetched possibility... but 3...
Yeah, maybe we should have focused on saving Lunaticman. He just seemed so busy and straight out scummy with his early posts that it felt like he would be lynched D2 anyway, leaving us in an awkward position..
No worries, NM, I obviously made some large mistakes such as pressuring to kill Rels over Tictock (Tictock was quite a bit more likely Cop in hindsight), waffling on Lunatic before bussing him (should have either bussed him hard for cred or actually tried to get someone else lynched), and not being as active/impactful as usual due to partly IRL stuff and partly lack of motivation due to failed early plays. Still a pretty enjoyable game overall, I think.
On October 04 2016 05:20 Calix wrote: Also this means that TT tried to use "Calix is scum for being logical" as an argument without the excuse of a red check.
I'm dying.
I was so close to checking you actually, if it weren't for your early vote on Lunatic I prob would have.
On October 04 2016 06:02 Calix wrote: Yeah, I saw people doing that in my first game here although I didn't bother myself. (died N1)
Not sure if it's a habit that I'll get into though - I am lazy when it comes to night phases because my reads are liable to flip-flopping after a night kill - but I'll try to keep it in mind and post a short LW or some updated thoughts or whatnot.
I really hope the "she hasn't died by Day X, must be scum" argument doesn't get used against me again. I've had that thrown at me back on the old site if I lived past N1 and it was always annoying to deal with >_>
On September 29 2016 15:05 ptmc wrote: So stutters is modkilled at EON?
Sorry guys. I got really busy.
Just a warning this time. Won't be modkilled.
Jesus tit-sucking Christ, that's a shameless mod-dodge if I ever saw one. Doesn't even comment on the fucking game.
At this point, he needs to be policy-lynched now rather than later to clear shit up. He's a black hole that makes it difficult to judge other players and the discussion around him is getting stale because he does nothing.
He's already survived two days longer than he should have done and that was back when he was actually posting.
Gotta admit that his play has been subpar at best... It's subpar as either alignment though, not merely subpar as town.
It's a bloody good thing I went out for a walk in a park today. I have some lovely pictures of hedges which remind me of your posts.
That post was pretty good, but then again, it was also not. Who knows? I certainly don't seem to know my own opinion
On October 04 2016 06:59 Rels wrote: Also, best post in the thread:
On October 01 2016 03:10 Calix wrote:
On October 01 2016 03:03 Xatalos wrote:
On October 01 2016 03:00 Calix wrote:
On September 30 2016 02:27 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 29 2016 15:05 ptmc wrote: So stutters is modkilled at EON?
Sorry guys. I got really busy.
Just a warning this time. Won't be modkilled.
Jesus tit-sucking Christ, that's a shameless mod-dodge if I ever saw one. Doesn't even comment on the fucking game.
At this point, he needs to be policy-lynched now rather than later to clear shit up. He's a black hole that makes it difficult to judge other players and the discussion around him is getting stale because he does nothing.
He's already survived two days longer than he should have done and that was back when he was actually posting.
Gotta admit that his play has been subpar at best... It's subpar as either alignment though, not merely subpar as town.
It's a bloody good thing I went out for a walk in a park today. I have some lovely pictures of hedges which remind me of your posts.
That post was pretty good, but then again, it was also not. Who knows? I certainly don't seem to know my own opinion
Even in the scum QT, you managed to sound unsure of yourself :')
I guess it's a bit different though. When I'm genuinely unsure, I usually have valid reasoning that push me in different directions. When I'm just hedging, I say stuff like "He's probably town, but I guess he could also be a great scum player" lol
EPT
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