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On September 11 2016 22:52 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 11:57 NocturneMage wrote:On September 11 2016 10:03 Shapelog wrote:
We might need so more coaches lol.
Unless I get the scum team, and HTS gets to coach all the newbies? Or opposite way around? rule #1 for newbie coaches: do not ever allow hts to coach any mafia players. it should be clear why. look at what she did to luna, and she's even worse with her teammates xD in any case, you all need coaches? work's kept busy, but I could spare the time for a townie I suppose. I personally do not need a coach, and I doubt that Calix is interested in having one too.
I think you should try it out, it's enjoyable 
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On September 14 2016 16:19 Rels wrote:Welcome back (= why not /in ?
Thanks!
I just got added to a different game I had /replaced on a week or two ago so unfortunately I will have to stay as a /replace.
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On September 18 2016 06:16 Half the Sky wrote:Welcome to the fray. And welcome back Jealous.
Thanks HtS!
See ya Unlucky );
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I will /in because my other game finished (Newbie - I think I am still allowed? Otherwise - as a replacement for whoever doesn't confirm, or whatever).
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On September 23 2016 18:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
You can play if Stutters doesn't want to play. If not, I'd urge you to coach as we're in desperate need of more coaches!
I call shotty on HtS.
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On September 23 2016 19:15 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 18:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
You can play if Stutters doesn't want to play. If not, I'd urge you to coach as we're in desperate need of more coaches! I call shotty on HtS.
I can share with Calix because we will both be town.
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On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him. On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once.
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early.
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On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him. On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once. I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata.
Huh. So what do you get out of this tactic?
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On September 24 2016 08:24 Calix wrote:
It's pretty obvious how you deal with inactives.
Threaten to lynch the scummy low-post players so that they post more.
Threaten to vig the idiotic players so that they get smart.
Even if there's no vig, nobody knows that so it forces the scum to post constructively and often or get fucked.
Also means you don't stick yourself down in a policy lynch like an hour in, lol.
The end.
Sounds like a good plan to me.
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On September 24 2016 08:29 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him. On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once. I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. Huh. So what did you get out of this tactic?
EBWOP do -> did
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On September 24 2016 08:36 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 08:28 Calix wrote:On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him. On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once. I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test? My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play.
Confused as to why you would intentionally create such a scenario in the first place if you acknowledge less than 5 minutes later that it was a terrible choice. It's not like you got any smarter in between then and now.
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On September 24 2016 08:52 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 08:39 Jealous wrote:On September 24 2016 08:36 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:28 Calix wrote:On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him. On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once. I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test? My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play. Confused as to why you would intentionally create such a scenario in the first place if you acknowledge less than 5 minutes later that it was a terrible choice. It's not like you got any smarter in between then and now. I'm older and thus wiser. The findings are TBD btw. Rest assured, I have top men on it. If you had to guess, why do you think I did it?
Underestimating your fellow players is my best guess.
On September 24 2016 10:52 Stutters695 wrote:
Ebwop: Agreed about Calix. Very tonal, but it feels very genuine
Too early to have much better, but I would like to talk to Jealous and DH some more.
I'm always open to conversation my friend.
On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^ Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
I second your point about meta. At the end of the day, meta is so often skewed by perspective and interpretation. While it may help in some cases, it is rarely a solid argument when trying to convince others because it boils down to "Town X wouldn't do that! They didn't do it in game Y!" and then X says "But in game Z I did that and I was town!" so on and so forth.
On September 24 2016 12:05 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
I get a light town read on Calix based on #204, #207.
I'd like to hear more from Jealous, in #213, it sounds like a light scum read or suspicion on Stutter - but the way they phrase it as a question because they are confused makes me think they are hesitant on the read, just maybe?
Not a scum read just yet. I don't crystallize or publicize my reads until I have a decent catalog of posts on which to base them, because I feel like weak pressure and baseless reads are harmful to town because they lack substance, have a higher probability of being wrong, and can lead to ML. I am just trying to get a feel for the players I am not familiar with and see what kind of person is behind the keyboard, why they say what they say, and thus look for inconsistencies in-game.
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On September 24 2016 14:02 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
I liked that last bit you wrote in the post. I feel the same way but I tend to be impulsive and pressurize my way into getting reads as a natural reaction when I begin playing through RVS which has lead to some results in getting activity in the game which is nice. I still have yet to see the point in the RVS in general but noticed the lack of presence of it so far here. Would like to hear the views of how you perceive RVS/what kinds of points given. This may not lead to alignment indicative posts, but gives me an understanding of where people's heads are at this point in the game.
That being said, I like how confident tone in that post, it could be from a very well seasoned player, but normally see caution amongst scum at the beginning, so I am definitely light town reading Jealous based on the #233, I also like how there is consistency on the behaviour reasoning for the post I questioned which again feels like they are not frabricating a reasoning.
Please note, my reads tend to have a dynamic flow as the game state changes so take it with a grain of salt.
I don't believe in RVS for much the same reasons that I listed for reads. I will rarely if ever trust a player that votes and un-votes and re-votes multiple times per lynch cycle. Decisions like that need to be done with a firm hand, and not frivolously. Too many people playing silly pressure games can result in a ML. Mafia is a game of psychology, and voting creates social pressure on parties that may otherwise be more objective and thus could contribute to the discussion/analysis and not simply sheep or jump on a train. Not sure what you mean by the bolded above.
I'm in this as a newbie so I'm definitely not a well-seasoned player ^^ Thank you, but don't suck up to me just yet, I tend to be wrong a lot, unfortunately.
On September 24 2016 14:31 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ Interesting idea. What does this achieve?
Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night. Emphasis mine. I'd lynch for this
I would appreciate some elaboration on this.
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On September 24 2016 19:37 Rels wrote:I don't like Jealous. And I don't like all the townreads he's getting simply for writing the most words in the thread. 80% of his content are about things that are not scumhunting and are very easy to write about: RVS, meta, PL. The only thing he's done in terms of reads has been questionning Stutters with Calix. I don't liek that he's already justifying himself to not having to take a stance: Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 13:29 Jealous wrote:On September 24 2016 12:05 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
I get a light town read on Calix based on #204, #207.
I'd like to hear more from Jealous, in #213, it sounds like a light scum read or suspicion on Stutter - but the way they phrase it as a question because they are confused makes me think they are hesitant on the read, just maybe? Not a scum read just yet. I don't crystallize or publicize my reads until I have a decent catalog of posts on which to base them, because I feel like weak pressure and baseless reads are harmful to town because they lack substance, have a higher probability of being wrong, and can lead to ML. I am just trying to get a feel for the players I am not familiar with and see what kind of person is behind the keyboard, why they say what they say, and thus look for inconsistencies in-game. So, Jealous, I want you to explain your stance on Stutters' answers to your questions.
Pretty hard to scum hunt just 20-40 posts when I'd classify most stuff until that point to be largely NAI. I felt that policy was important to talk about because bringing up policy lynch a few hours into the game. That's counter-productive so my aim was to quell that idea to open the floor to actual discussion.
As far as Stutters' answers, I don't think you could even call them that. I'm not liking how dodgy he is, feels like he doesn't want to give things away which is not a very town thing to do.
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On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^ Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night. Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:
[quote]
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. Stutters:Calix:
You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test? My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play. Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?  Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ? No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet.
Another dodgy poster, whose counter-suspicions directed at Rels are pretty silly.
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On September 25 2016 01:30 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 23:20 Xatalos wrote:On September 24 2016 22:51 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 22:35 Xatalos wrote:On September 24 2016 22:23 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 22:14 Xatalos wrote:On September 24 2016 08:26 DanelerH wrote:On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him. On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once. I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This, plus there's Shutter's first post: On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me. Probably the worst post in the game so far (and definitely the worst of the opening posts). It's a wishy-washy suspicion riding on already existing suspicions. Pretty much the safest possible suspicion to make as scum, and leaves you with plenty of options to proceed (vote for him if it gains steam or forget it if not). Even the tone is so passive and uninvolved.. True. The rest of his posts are just him responding to Calix too, so the only real post he made by himself was the one you linked. He might be scum Yeah, he might. At least if I had to shoot someone right now, I'd choose him. I guess you're suspicious of Lunaticman and Jealous so far? I agree they haven't really contributed anything meaningful, but is it just because of that? Yep. Ok  Well, I guess that's not the worst reason... Sorry I only answered the first question p: Lunatic because of this attitude of "I promise I'll tell you later but I won't tell you why", Jealous because of all the fluff in his filter when I know he's a pushy dude.
Recently I've gotten a lot of comments about my not pushing enough actually ): I just don't feel as comfortable doing it now that I'm running a decent streak of poor pushes (because I scum read some townies). I try not to push until I have a decent catalog of posts to base my argument on nowadays, but things are awfully slow/quiet here..
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On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote:I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it: On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts: On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^ Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night. Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him. On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once. I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. Stutters:Calix:
You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test? My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play. Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people? Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^ Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night. Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:
[quote]
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. Stutters:Calix:
You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test? My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play. Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people? Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. [quote] Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: [quote] Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. [quote] Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. [quote] What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people? Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ? No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet. There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer. The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle. Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded.
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On September 25 2016 10:16 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 10:15 Jealous wrote:On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote:I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it: On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts: On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^ Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night. Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:
[quote]
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. Stutters:Calix:
You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test? My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play. Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people? Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. [quote] Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: [quote] Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. [quote] Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. [quote] What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people? Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
[quote]
Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ? No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet. There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer. The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle. Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels. Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded. It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum?
Really hard to say. It feels almost too blatant to be scum, but at the same time stupidity is blatant which would cover both options.
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On September 25 2016 10:48 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 10:16 DoYouHas wrote:On September 25 2016 10:15 Jealous wrote:On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote:I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it: On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts: On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
[quote]
Interesting idea. What does this achieve?
Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^
Also hi there.
I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you.
I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:
[quote]
This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. Stutters:
[quote]
My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play. Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
[quote]
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people? Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
[quote]
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
[quote]
Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ? No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet. There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer. The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle. Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels. Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded. It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum? Really hard to say. It feels almost too blatant to be scum, but at the same time stupidity is blatant which would cover both options.
I can only imagine some complicates shot-in-the-dark play being an intelligent reason.
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On September 25 2016 11:09 DoYouHas wrote:
@Jealous, are you in and out? Why is it taking you this long to respond to me?
I'm in New York City so between subway and pregame ng I have only so much time. I don't have a stronger scum read but I don't feel that my scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote just yet. Would be helpful to get a response and input from others before making a snap decision.
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On September 25 2016 12:28 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 01:33 Jealous wrote:On September 25 2016 01:30 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 23:20 Xatalos wrote:On September 24 2016 22:51 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 22:35 Xatalos wrote:On September 24 2016 22:23 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 22:14 Xatalos wrote:On September 24 2016 08:26 DanelerH wrote:On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:
[quote]
I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This, plus there's Shutter's first post: On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me. Probably the worst post in the game so far (and definitely the worst of the opening posts). It's a wishy-washy suspicion riding on already existing suspicions. Pretty much the safest possible suspicion to make as scum, and leaves you with plenty of options to proceed (vote for him if it gains steam or forget it if not). Even the tone is so passive and uninvolved.. True. The rest of his posts are just him responding to Calix too, so the only real post he made by himself was the one you linked. He might be scum Yeah, he might. At least if I had to shoot someone right now, I'd choose him. I guess you're suspicious of Lunaticman and Jealous so far? I agree they haven't really contributed anything meaningful, but is it just because of that? Yep. Ok Well, I guess that's not the worst reason... Sorry I only answered the first question p: Lunatic because of this attitude of "I promise I'll tell you later but I won't tell you why", Jealous because of all the fluff in his filter when I know he's a pushy dude. Recently I've gotten a lot of comments about my not pushing enough actually ): I just don't feel as comfortable doing it now that I'm running a decent streak of poor pushes (because I scum read some townies). I try not to push until I have a decent catalog of posts to base my argument on nowadays, but things are awfully slow/quiet here.. Not sure how I am liking your shaken up tone here, Jealous. What's wrong with initially scum reading townies? How do you propose to learn about the alignment of players if you don't push for info? Also if you fall into pbpa trap, guarantee you that confirmation bias is going to bite you in the ass.
Fact is I'm a newbie, and my statistical lack of success is what shakes me up. I feel that I make rational reads and pushes (which is why they succeed) but then I feel guilty when it is a ML. Initially scum reading someone might not be terrible, the problem is if you tunnel or influence others to sheep you. I'd rather everyone get their opinion out unbiased D1 than make a strong push/vote and have it be ML. I work better off of the concrete information presented in the game which is flips, associations, and read analysis.
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Also I feel I've answered your prior question as to why fear of ML is high on my radar in the post you quoted last.
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On September 25 2016 13:07 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
Okay so here's my thoughts on what I have read up on so far:
town leans on
Xalador (gave my reasons earlier)
pmtc (the discussion and decoding Danaler's alignment with Xalador felt incredibly nature/smooth + points on scum hunting)
Calix (earlier interactions = bit blurry on reasoning though other than criticism on stutter just nice impression since it gave me stuff to work with to get out of gross RVS)
small town lean on
Danaler (gave my reasoning earlier = based on tunnelling on Lunar)
DoYouHas (analysis on myself I guess? kinda a weak reasoning)
Unsure on
Jealous (confident tone which felt townie to me, abuses newb card in #366 rubs me the wrong way. Good point by Rels that alarms go off on the lack of scum hunting)
Stutters (still need more on current game state thoughts)
Slight Scum read
Lunar (commented on how I didn't like how he gave into the pressure by players, shakey confidence, but didn't like the filler jab I pointed out in #357 and #359 - don't like meta tells to be that conceret)
the rest, nothing really stood out in my backreading.
Don't know how you can say I "abuse" the newb card when you ask me a question which can be answered by being a newb in a newb game which is confirmed by the number of games I've played rofl. Feels like you're reaching here. "Why are you scared?" "Because I'm not experienced." "NEW B CARD!" Please.
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Anyhow, right now the vote for me us between Lunatic and Stutters. It would be great if we can hear some analysis from these players of the same nature as SEQ above. This will help me decide which to vote for and to then post-humously analyze associations.
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Us = is because fuck my autocorrect and wayward fingers
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I have to agree with Calix on the more anti-town part. [B]## Lunaticman[b] just in case I don't make it back.
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On September 25 2016 23:26 Lunaticman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 21:10 Xatalos wrote:On September 25 2016 18:23 Lunaticman wrote:
I wonder how not wanting to state a read because it will reveal a blue role is equal towards being mafia. The reason for not saying anything is because that is based o information town dont want mafia to know.
This game is just full of paragraf knights. I told you why I didnt want to say my SINGLE read and I got forced. Saying I wasnt forced is a lie.
And when I do say why Im a coward, so either way Im scum. And that dosent even make sense.
It is also intresting to see that town once again town reads the people with most posts as town.
Remember that mafia always sound smater and better because they know who is mafia and are working with perfect information.
Lastly I yet to see a day one lynch of a mafia player so anything that happens day one usually is just speculation.
My time is precious this weekend the little spare time I have not working is spent defending myself. I dont really have time to do what I want which is identify townies and lookig for mafia in the top posters day one.
A good example is my last normal game in which I found the gf day one and was unsuccessful in lynching him 3 days in a row because the mafia undermined me constantly. But why did you say that Stutter was a strong town read in the first place without any reasoning? Isn't that the same as claiming that he's potentially a blue in your opinion (from scum perspective)? Granted, it could also be a complicated meta reason or something, but having a blue read is often the reason if someone doesn't want to say his reasons for a read. And then why reveal the blue read so quickly anyway under a bit of pressure? It's just... pretty much a disastrous chain of events, especially if you're town and correct. It's also disastrous if you're scum, so... Just why? So you don't have hunches? I'm just saying nothing that has been said today has been nothing but speculation and you are accusing me of not giving reasons? God ok I'll play your game: Stutters is town because I have a meta read on him. Satisified? "No, how can you know that?" "Because I played with him before" "Really explain!" On and on this goes. the TL mafia community really has a hard time dealing with people playing emotionally rather than using logic. I'm probably not going to respond to anything related to my first town read anymore. It feels like beating a dead horse.
TL;DR: I got frustrated by people asking me reasonable questions in response to my dodgy nature and unsupported read, so I did something anti-town and now I'm going to blame the community for it.
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On September 26 2016 00:10 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 23:50 Jealous wrote:On September 25 2016 23:26 Lunaticman wrote:On September 25 2016 21:10 Xatalos wrote:On September 25 2016 18:23 Lunaticman wrote:
I wonder how not wanting to state a read because it will reveal a blue role is equal towards being mafia. The reason for not saying anything is because that is based o information town dont want mafia to know.
This game is just full of paragraf knights. I told you why I didnt want to say my SINGLE read and I got forced. Saying I wasnt forced is a lie.
And when I do say why Im a coward, so either way Im scum. And that dosent even make sense.
It is also intresting to see that town once again town reads the people with most posts as town.
Remember that mafia always sound smater and better because they know who is mafia and are working with perfect information.
Lastly I yet to see a day one lynch of a mafia player so anything that happens day one usually is just speculation.
My time is precious this weekend the little spare time I have not working is spent defending myself. I dont really have time to do what I want which is identify townies and lookig for mafia in the top posters day one.
A good example is my last normal game in which I found the gf day one and was unsuccessful in lynching him 3 days in a row because the mafia undermined me constantly. But why did you say that Stutter was a strong town read in the first place without any reasoning? Isn't that the same as claiming that he's potentially a blue in your opinion (from scum perspective)? Granted, it could also be a complicated meta reason or something, but having a blue read is often the reason if someone doesn't want to say his reasons for a read. And then why reveal the blue read so quickly anyway under a bit of pressure? It's just... pretty much a disastrous chain of events, especially if you're town and correct. It's also disastrous if you're scum, so... Just why? So you don't have hunches? I'm just saying nothing that has been said today has been nothing but speculation and you are accusing me of not giving reasons? God ok I'll play your game: Stutters is town because I have a meta read on him. Satisified? "No, how can you know that?" "Because I played with him before" "Really explain!" On and on this goes. the TL mafia community really has a hard time dealing with people playing emotionally rather than using logic. I'm probably not going to respond to anything related to my first town read anymore. It feels like beating a dead horse. TL;DR: I got frustrated by people asking me reasonable questions in response to my dodgy nature and unsupported read, so I did something anti-town and now I'm going to blame the community for it. Do you actually scum-read him at all? I don't recall you saying anything aside from 'more anti-town than XYZ'
At this point he is the scummiest player so far.
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On September 26 2016 00:24 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 00:21 Jealous wrote:On September 26 2016 00:10 Calix wrote:On September 25 2016 23:50 Jealous wrote:On September 25 2016 23:26 Lunaticman wrote:On September 25 2016 21:10 Xatalos wrote:On September 25 2016 18:23 Lunaticman wrote:
I wonder how not wanting to state a read because it will reveal a blue role is equal towards being mafia. The reason for not saying anything is because that is based o information town dont want mafia to know.
This game is just full of paragraf knights. I told you why I didnt want to say my SINGLE read and I got forced. Saying I wasnt forced is a lie.
And when I do say why Im a coward, so either way Im scum. And that dosent even make sense.
It is also intresting to see that town once again town reads the people with most posts as town.
Remember that mafia always sound smater and better because they know who is mafia and are working with perfect information.
Lastly I yet to see a day one lynch of a mafia player so anything that happens day one usually is just speculation.
My time is precious this weekend the little spare time I have not working is spent defending myself. I dont really have time to do what I want which is identify townies and lookig for mafia in the top posters day one.
A good example is my last normal game in which I found the gf day one and was unsuccessful in lynching him 3 days in a row because the mafia undermined me constantly. But why did you say that Stutter was a strong town read in the first place without any reasoning? Isn't that the same as claiming that he's potentially a blue in your opinion (from scum perspective)? Granted, it could also be a complicated meta reason or something, but having a blue read is often the reason if someone doesn't want to say his reasons for a read. And then why reveal the blue read so quickly anyway under a bit of pressure? It's just... pretty much a disastrous chain of events, especially if you're town and correct. It's also disastrous if you're scum, so... Just why? So you don't have hunches? I'm just saying nothing that has been said today has been nothing but speculation and you are accusing me of not giving reasons? God ok I'll play your game: Stutters is town because I have a meta read on him. Satisified? "No, how can you know that?" "Because I played with him before" "Really explain!" On and on this goes. the TL mafia community really has a hard time dealing with people playing emotionally rather than using logic. I'm probably not going to respond to anything related to my first town read anymore. It feels like beating a dead horse. TL;DR: I got frustrated by people asking me reasonable questions in response to my dodgy nature and unsupported read, so I did something anti-town and now I'm going to blame the community for it. Do you actually scum-read him at all? I don't recall you saying anything aside from 'more anti-town than XYZ' At this point he is the scummiest player so far. Hmm. Who else would fall into your definition of scummy?
Stutters.
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On September 26 2016 05:53 scott31337 wrote:Want to post any other thoughts on the game Jealous?
I've posted what I deem a sufficient amount about Lunaticman prior to the vote; I actually voted for him in this thread much earlier than most of you, from what I can tell, but I forgot that I have to vote in the other thread. As far as my thoughts as I'm catching up, here's what I have (pretty loose, not on a PC until tomorrow and working until then):
Scott - In my experience Scott is always a man of few words so I don't feel his brevity is AI.
Superbia - welcome back, his type of spam might be what this game needed to be revitalized. I would like to see him speaking more specifically and referencing posts more clearly beyond just saying "I read his filter and I feel x." He also has the convenience of arriving into the thread when everything is more or less set in stone. But, because I myself am busy, I can relate.
Calix - am slightly surprised by her willingness to judge me for not being very confident or conclusive on people in D1 as I feel she knows me well enough to know that this isn't out of the norm. D2 is when I always do a lot of work, so I don't mind that you guys (particularly Rels) are giving me some crap over being soft-spoken because that will all change when I have concrete things to work off of and tie to posts.
Daneler - might be riding on the good feels he got from my posts before I became inactive, but he should have picked up on the general turn of town's opinion on me and the fact that it is reasonable I'm a vacuum. I agree with Rels that I wasn't a big fan of his list post.
Rels - staying on the ball and being assertive with his position, which I like. His going after me is forgivable because as I said it is justifiable and will not be the case come D2.
Xan - it's awkward for me to look back on my phone to make sure that it was him trying to create a second train, but if it was indeed him I'd have to say it seems like a stupid thing to attempt so openly and at this juncture. Stupidity isn't necessarily AI but in theory, taking votes off Lunaticman and creating the potential for shennanies (which are popular on TL and thus unfortunately not always AI)... Could be a dumb scum move. If it was not Xan who did this, attribute the same reasoning to whoever else it was that initiated this thought, and apologies to Xan.
Stutter - still haven't seen anything from him that would make me change my mind about him being my #2 lynch pick.
Nothing that I recall off the top of my head sticks out, but I'm not fully caught up so maybe I'll add some more as I walk to the store before EoD.
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On September 26 2016 06:02 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 05:53 scott31337 wrote:On September 26 2016 05:48 Jealous wrote:
## Vote Lunaticman Want to post any other thoughts on the game Jealous? dat sneaky vote
Just gonna point you to my post above for an explanation. You can check my filter to see the fact that I voted in this thread for him as well but because I have played a few games on SC2Mafia it slipped my mind that there was a voting thread.
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On September 26 2016 06:25 ptmc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 06:18 Jealous wrote:On September 26 2016 05:53 scott31337 wrote:On September 26 2016 05:48 Jealous wrote:
## Vote Lunaticman Want to post any other thoughts on the game Jealous? I've posted what I deem a sufficient amount about Lunaticman prior to the vote; I actually voted for him in this thread much earlier than most of you, from what I can tell, but I forgot that I have to vote in the other thread. As far as my thoughts as I'm catching up, here's what I have (pretty loose, not on a PC until tomorrow and working until then): Scott - In my experience Scott is always a man of few words so I don't feel his brevity is AI. Superbia - welcome back, his type of spam might be what this game needed to be revitalized. I would like to see him speaking more specifically and referencing posts more clearly beyond just saying "I read his filter and I feel x." He also has the convenience of arriving into the thread when everything is more or less set in stone. But, because I myself am busy, I can relate. Calix - am slightly surprised by her willingness to judge me for not being very confident or conclusive on people in D1 as I feel she knows me well enough to know that this isn't out of the norm. D2 is when I always do a lot of work, so I don't mind that you guys (particularly Rels) are giving me some crap over being soft-spoken because that will all change when I have concrete things to work off of and tie to posts. Daneler - might be riding on the good feels he got from my posts before I became inactive, but he should have picked up on the general turn of town's opinion on me and the fact that it is reasonable I'm a vacuum. I agree with Rels that I wasn't a big fan of his list post. Rels - staying on the ball and being assertive with his position, which I like. His going after me is forgivable because as I said it is justifiable and will not be the case come D2. Xan - it's awkward for me to look back on my phone to make sure that it was him trying to create a second train, but if it was indeed him I'd have to say it seems like a stupid thing to attempt so openly and at this juncture. Stupidity isn't necessarily AI but in theory, taking votes off Lunaticman and creating the potential for shennanies (which are popular on TL and thus unfortunately not always AI)... Could be a dumb scum move. If it was not Xan who did this, attribute the same reasoning to whoever else it was that initiated this thought, and apologies to Xan.Stutter - still haven't seen anything from him that would make me change my mind about him being my #2 lynch pick. Nothing that I recall off the top of my head sticks out, but I'm not fully caught up so maybe I'll add some more as I walk to the store before EoD. What do you think about DYH?
I liked the questions he posited to me, dislike the fact that he hasn't done much of anything else. The questions he asked would be easy for scum to post for the express purpose of creating the illusion of town - interest and pressure. Needless to say I can understand where he was coming from about my slow response but I think I put the theory that it was anything AI to rest by looking like a demented tourist for taking a photo of the back of a train pass at the metro lol. The longer DYH isn't here and isn't doing anything is gradually pushing me to scum lean .
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On September 26 2016 06:29 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 06:18 Jealous wrote:On September 26 2016 05:53 scott31337 wrote:On September 26 2016 05:48 Jealous wrote:
## Vote Lunaticman Want to post any other thoughts on the game Jealous? I've posted what I deem a sufficient amount about Lunaticman prior to the vote; I actually voted for him in this thread much earlier than most of you, from what I can tell, but I forgot that I have to vote in the other thread. As far as my thoughts as I'm catching up, here's what I have (pretty loose, not on a PC until tomorrow and working until then): Scott - In my experience Scott is always a man of few words so I don't feel his brevity is AI. Superbia - welcome back, his type of spam might be what this game needed to be revitalized. I would like to see him speaking more specifically and referencing posts more clearly beyond just saying "I read his filter and I feel x." He also has the convenience of arriving into the thread when everything is more or less set in stone. But, because I myself am busy, I can relate. Calix - am slightly surprised by her willingness to judge me for not being very confident or conclusive on people in D1 as I feel she knows me well enough to know that this isn't out of the norm. D2 is when I always do a lot of work, so I don't mind that you guys (particularly Rels) are giving me some crap over being soft-spoken because that will all change when I have concrete things to work off of and tie to posts. Daneler - might be riding on the good feels he got from my posts before I became inactive, but he should have picked up on the general turn of town's opinion on me and the fact that it is reasonable I'm a vacuum. I agree with Rels that I wasn't a big fan of his list post. Rels - staying on the ball and being assertive with his position, which I like. His going after me is forgivable because as I said it is justifiable and will not be the case come D2. Xan - it's awkward for me to look back on my phone to make sure that it was him trying to create a second train, but if it was indeed him I'd have to say it seems like a stupid thing to attempt so openly and at this juncture. Stupidity isn't necessarily AI but in theory, taking votes off Lunaticman and creating the potential for shennanies (which are popular on TL and thus unfortunately not always AI)... Could be a dumb scum move. If it was not Xan who did this, attribute the same reasoning to whoever else it was that initiated this thought, and apologies to Xan.Stutter - still haven't seen anything from him that would make me change my mind about him being my #2 lynch pick. Nothing that I recall off the top of my head sticks out, but I'm not fully caught up so maybe I'll add some more as I walk to the store before EoD. Don't think reading into Superbia's timing is going to get anyone anywhere. Details that could be explained very easily by RL are not something that should be considered imo. Yeah, I am aware of your last game. Somehow you have become even worse since then and that's saying something considering that catch-up post you made last round. Your promise of getting less-shitty has been noted though. Noticing that a lot of your reads so far are focused on yourself. I don't think you've been the centre of discussion so this strikes me as oddly self-centred. Not sure who you're referring to with a 'second train' thing. Xatalos said "oh I can get behind a second train but I'm sticking with Lunatic" iirc before dropping it and Superbia was more open about a Scott train and has recently voted I think? Otherwise I don't follow. Your Stutters read is something I agree on.
As I said, I'm not taking Superbia's timing into account because we are both in the same boat in that regard.
I really didn't notice too much going on as I skimmed besides what I had already mentioned and covered so ad my name was mentioned quite often I felt it appropriate to address that, because if I don't, who will? Only person who seems to still have a favorable opinion of me is Daneler and even I don't agree with him lol. I guess I could have brought the list up in another window on my phone and flip back and forth in order to give more reasons but I was moving fast in the interest of EoD time and because I feel that the differences between what I have said and he has said would at least cover some of that.
Yes, that is what I was referring to. I'm not sure I like such a blatantly artificial plan. Seems like it'd plant more seeds of confusion than any valuable information, especially since it was done so openly.
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On September 26 2016 06:32 Xatalos wrote:
Jealous: can't really follow your "second wagon" thingy... I think it's theoretically always better to have about two wagons and the situation being town vs scum if possible for maximum benefits. This time it's not really feasible, but in general.
You might be right in theory but I feel the way you went about it was off and as you just acknowledged, not feasible. I'm curious because if you know it wasn't possible, why propose it? I don't think even newbie scum would fall such an obvious trap, if that's what it was.
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On September 26 2016 06:48 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 06:43 Jealous wrote:On September 26 2016 06:29 Calix wrote:On September 26 2016 06:18 Jealous wrote:On September 26 2016 05:53 scott31337 wrote:On September 26 2016 05:48 Jealous wrote:
## Vote Lunaticman Want to post any other thoughts on the game Jealous? I've posted what I deem a sufficient amount about Lunaticman prior to the vote; I actually voted for him in this thread much earlier than most of you, from what I can tell, but I forgot that I have to vote in the other thread. As far as my thoughts as I'm catching up, here's what I have (pretty loose, not on a PC until tomorrow and working until then): Scott - In my experience Scott is always a man of few words so I don't feel his brevity is AI. Superbia - welcome back, his type of spam might be what this game needed to be revitalized. I would like to see him speaking more specifically and referencing posts more clearly beyond just saying "I read his filter and I feel x." He also has the convenience of arriving into the thread when everything is more or less set in stone. But, because I myself am busy, I can relate. Calix - am slightly surprised by her willingness to judge me for not being very confident or conclusive on people in D1 as I feel she knows me well enough to know that this isn't out of the norm. D2 is when I always do a lot of work, so I don't mind that you guys (particularly Rels) are giving me some crap over being soft-spoken because that will all change when I have concrete things to work off of and tie to posts. Daneler - might be riding on the good feels he got from my posts before I became inactive, but he should have picked up on the general turn of town's opinion on me and the fact that it is reasonable I'm a vacuum. I agree with Rels that I wasn't a big fan of his list post. Rels - staying on the ball and being assertive with his position, which I like. His going after me is forgivable because as I said it is justifiable and will not be the case come D2. Xan - it's awkward for me to look back on my phone to make sure that it was him trying to create a second train, but if it was indeed him I'd have to say it seems like a stupid thing to attempt so openly and at this juncture. Stupidity isn't necessarily AI but in theory, taking votes off Lunaticman and creating the potential for shennanies (which are popular on TL and thus unfortunately not always AI)... Could be a dumb scum move. If it was not Xan who did this, attribute the same reasoning to whoever else it was that initiated this thought, and apologies to Xan.Stutter - still haven't seen anything from him that would make me change my mind about him being my #2 lynch pick. Nothing that I recall off the top of my head sticks out, but I'm not fully caught up so maybe I'll add some more as I walk to the store before EoD. Don't think reading into Superbia's timing is going to get anyone anywhere. Details that could be explained very easily by RL are not something that should be considered imo. Yeah, I am aware of your last game. Somehow you have become even worse since then and that's saying something considering that catch-up post you made last round. Your promise of getting less-shitty has been noted though. Noticing that a lot of your reads so far are focused on yourself. I don't think you've been the centre of discussion so this strikes me as oddly self-centred. Not sure who you're referring to with a 'second train' thing. Xatalos said "oh I can get behind a second train but I'm sticking with Lunatic" iirc before dropping it and Superbia was more open about a Scott train and has recently voted I think? Otherwise I don't follow. Your Stutters read is something I agree on. As I said, I'm not taking Superbia's timing into account because we are both in the same boat in that regard. I really didn't notice too much going on as I skimmed besides what I had already mentioned and covered so ad my name was mentioned quite often I felt it appropriate to address that, because if I don't, who will? Only person who seems to still have a favorable opinion of me is Daneler and even I don't agree with him lol. I guess I could have brought the list up in another window on my phone and flip back and forth in order to give more reasons but I was moving fast in the interest of EoD time and because I feel that the differences between what I have said and he has said would at least cover some of that. Yes, that is what I was referring to. I'm not sure I like such a blatantly artificial plan. Seems like it'd plant more seeds of confusion than any valuable information, especially since it was done so openly. I still think my self-centred point stands as your answer only confirmed what I was saying. What do you mean exactly with your last line of the 2nd paragraph? What's artificial about considering other lynch options? I didn't notice anything unusual with that. (it makes for better VCA after all)
I feel like you might be tunneled on this self-centered sticking point but I don't feel it's quite fair. I might be digging myself an even deeper hole by pursuing this line of discussion but I think it must be addressed. I come back from a long period of inactivity to find that nearly every poster is saying that they are liking me less/scum leaning me. I get asked for my thoughts on the thread by Scott so I address all the points I found pertinent, which obviously included me since nearly everyone has mentioned my name in my absence. So, in order to respond to the people whose mentioning of me stuck out, I am forced to talk about myself and come to my own defense multiple times. It's simply logical, in my opinion. I feel like you only looked at the surface (amount of times I refer to myself) and not the underlying reasons. I'd rather not have something else added to the list of things people are scum leaning me for. Anyway, I think that about covers that issue.
Last line of the second paragraph, I'll rephrase. If I had more time and it wasn't such a pain, I would have brought up the list in a quote or in another page on my phone browser, and addressed the reasons why I didn't like his list more directly. However, because time was short, I didn't. Running out of time now, third point will have to wait.
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On September 26 2016 06:48 Calix wrote:
What's artificial about considering other lynch options? I didn't notice anything unusual with that. (it makes for better VCA after all)
It's exactly the fact that he wasn't considering other options. I believe you even commented on that. He more or less said "lets take a bunch of votes off Lunaticman and see what happens!" There is no way you could get any meaningful VCA from that; he said that it wasn't a trap but it was meant to confuse mafia, which doesn't make sense to me either as that to me would be one and the same. (@Xan I will address your reply to me on the previous page here because phone sucks). What I think is more likely is it would confuse town if any weight was given as to who moved where (and if no one would put any weight on it, why do it? How would VCA work??). I refuse to believe that he didn't think of that.
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On September 26 2016 07:17 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote:
Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him. Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote:
##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. ^^^^worst votes 2k16 DYH is textbook bussing. The weird-ass sympathy nails it for me. Scott's awkward read-hopping looks even worse given that he was low-key defending Lunatic (nobody's contesting his wagon post) before he voted him for some lukewarm reasoning. Stutters was a "voting so I don't forget" vote and ptmc voted near the very end so that looks like a "vote because it's mandatory" deal, Jealous voted because he agreed with my "Lunatic is more anti-town than the other wagons" argument. Xatalos/ SEQ voted early on so they are extremely unlikely to be scum for that. Could have easily tried to have made a push on one of the other wagons given that both have some thread presence.
Nice finds. I am inclined to agree on at least DYH, whereas with Scott I'm not 100% sure but that last sentence is pretty damning. Why would it have been UNSAFE to vote Lunatic? It's not like TL threads close once 50% majority is reached or something. Would be worthwhile to check out the validity of his claim that there were a decent number of votes going elsewhere at the time. Can someone on PC do this for me please? ^^
I agree with most of your other VCA. For Stutters, it's worth mentioning (and please correct me if I'm wrong because I'm working off memory) that it was between him and Luna in terms of who was being pressured so the Luna vote would have been the most sensible from a defensive standpoint as well.
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Anyhow, I will drop Stutters lower on my list of lynch priorities (though not really due to anything he has actually done). My list looks like this now:
#1 DYH
#2 Scott (thanks for bringing up my vote, filter, and the timing though)
#3 Xan/Stutters
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On September 26 2016 07:27 Calix wrote:
imma look at the votes in more detail tomorrow evening. First, what do people think of Superbia's insistence on voting for Scott? I'm not sure how to interpret that myself - he had to know that Scott was extremely unlikely to be lynched.
But I kind of like it because he didn't just pile onto the Lunatic bandwagon to get cheap town points.
I don't think it is that substantial. This is where his entry timing is actually relevant, because he didn't go through the thread and watch the Lunatic zeppelin crash and burn in real time, so perhaps he was not as convinced. Perhaps he had a similar idea to Xan but went about it in a way that actually makes sense. I definitely don't think he's scum for it, but I would like to hear his thoughts on the matter because it seems he had reason to suspect Scott and that would be useful to hear about.
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On September 26 2016 07:33 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 07:24 Jealous wrote:On September 26 2016 07:17 Calix wrote:On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote:
Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him. On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote:
##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. ^^^^worst votes 2k16 DYH is textbook bussing. The weird-ass sympathy nails it for me. Scott's awkward read-hopping looks even worse given that he was low-key defending Lunatic (nobody's contesting his wagon post) before he voted him for some lukewarm reasoning. Stutters was a "voting so I don't forget" vote and ptmc voted near the very end so that looks like a "vote because it's mandatory" deal, Jealous voted because he agreed with my "Lunatic is more anti-town than the other wagons" argument. Xatalos/ SEQ voted early on so they are extremely unlikely to be scum for that. Could have easily tried to have made a push on one of the other wagons given that both have some thread presence. Nice finds. I am inclined to agree on at least DYH, whereas with Scott I'm not 100% sure but that last sentence is pretty damning. Why would it have been UNSAFE to vote Lunatic? It's not like TL threads close once 50% majority is reached or something. Would be worthwhile to check out the validity of his claim that there were a decent number of votes going elsewhere at the time. Can someone on PC do this for me please? ^^ I agree with most of your other VCA. For Stutters, it's worth mentioning (and please correct me if I'm wrong because I'm working off memory) that it was between him and Luna in terms of who was being pressured so the Luna vote would have been the most sensible from a defensive standpoint as well. A quick look at the voting thread tells me that Lunatic was the leading wagon for all of EOD (tells me that he became the leading wagon 6 hours ago and Scott voted 3 hours ago) Reminds me of those people who claim to scum-read someone but don't vote for some convoluted reason like "I won't vote on principle" or something. (poorly-explained but it's like a rationalisation for bad logic) Wait, wasn't that you who said "the lynch is between Stutters and Lunatic"? Checked his filter and Stutters didn't say much about Lunatic so you have attributed your point to the wrong person, lol.
If it was me then that explains why I'm remembering it, but I don't think I was alone in suspecting Stutters at the time, so the point still stands. If I said it was between the two of them and he voted for him, that's still a defensive vote even if he didn't mention Lunatic directly. "Rather you than me."
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On September 26 2016 07:39 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 07:37 Jealous wrote:On September 26 2016 07:33 Calix wrote:On September 26 2016 07:24 Jealous wrote:On September 26 2016 07:17 Calix wrote:On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote:
Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him. On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote:
##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. ^^^^worst votes 2k16 DYH is textbook bussing. The weird-ass sympathy nails it for me. Scott's awkward read-hopping looks even worse given that he was low-key defending Lunatic (nobody's contesting his wagon post) before he voted him for some lukewarm reasoning. Stutters was a "voting so I don't forget" vote and ptmc voted near the very end so that looks like a "vote because it's mandatory" deal, Jealous voted because he agreed with my "Lunatic is more anti-town than the other wagons" argument. Xatalos/ SEQ voted early on so they are extremely unlikely to be scum for that. Could have easily tried to have made a push on one of the other wagons given that both have some thread presence. Nice finds. I am inclined to agree on at least DYH, whereas with Scott I'm not 100% sure but that last sentence is pretty damning. Why would it have been UNSAFE to vote Lunatic? It's not like TL threads close once 50% majority is reached or something. Would be worthwhile to check out the validity of his claim that there were a decent number of votes going elsewhere at the time. Can someone on PC do this for me please? ^^ I agree with most of your other VCA. For Stutters, it's worth mentioning (and please correct me if I'm wrong because I'm working off memory) that it was between him and Luna in terms of who was being pressured so the Luna vote would have been the most sensible from a defensive standpoint as well. A quick look at the voting thread tells me that Lunatic was the leading wagon for all of EOD (tells me that he became the leading wagon 6 hours ago and Scott voted 3 hours ago) Reminds me of those people who claim to scum-read someone but don't vote for some convoluted reason like "I won't vote on principle" or something. (poorly-explained but it's like a rationalisation for bad logic) Wait, wasn't that you who said "the lynch is between Stutters and Lunatic"? Checked his filter and Stutters didn't say much about Lunatic so you have attributed your point to the wrong person, lol. If it was me then that explains why I'm remembering it, but I don't think I was alone in suspecting Stutters at the time, so the point still stands. If I said it was between the two of them and he voted for him, that's still a defensive vote even if he didn't mention Lunatic directly. "Rather you than me." This isn't applicable for reasons below but voting for survival is not alignment-indicative. Secondly, this explanation you proposed doesn't make sense because Stutters was one of the last voters on the wagon, long after Stutters was at risk of dying.
Didn't say it was. I was agreeing with you that his vote did not grant him town points in my book.
Oh, I must have misconstrued your first post in this chain. I was under the impression he voted early. Damn phone limitations.
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So how am I the only scum to you?
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How do I look bad post-op lol
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Jeez what an amazingly timed autocorrect LOOOL
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On September 26 2016 10:52 DoYouHas wrote:
Sure, let me throw together the quick and dirty version before I run off to sleep. (quick by my standards, which is still probably slow)
Thanks
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On September 26 2016 11:56 DoYouHas wrote:GRAH, I CAN'T MAKE IT STICK For everything I don't like about you and think makes you scum: Your early fluff, non-committal, over-defensiveness, appeals to your noobieness, misrepresenting me, buddying Calix, looking at the proposal of multiple wagons from a mafia perspective instead of a town one (looking at it as a trap to be avoided instead of as an opportunity for better VCA) I can't seem to find the mafia actions in your play around the lynch. If I'm having trouble convincing myself of probably the most important part when I undoubtedly have my confirmation bias glasses on it probably isn't there. I was seeing your tonal shifts from casually attacking Luna to guarded consideration then back to casual attacking as very odd. But the thing I can't figure out if you are scum is why you would leave your vote on Luna and not Stutters before the wagon on Luna got rolling. This post: Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 17:17 Jealous wrote:
I have to agree with Calix on the more anti-town part. [B]## Lunaticman[b] just in case I don't make it back. It doesn't fit or is significantly more clever than I am. Damn, damn, damn. I hate having no scum reads. I really do need to get to bed though. See you all with the daypost.
A little bit of misrepresentation here but if you're not pursuing this any further for now, might as well leave it alone. Thanks for being honest (outside of the misrep).
If you need some scum reads, grab one of mine! Otherwise, I hope you reach some conclusions by D2. There has definitely been some questionable behavior from the people in my list, at the very least. I will be fleshing those out in D2 as well. Good night.
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@Scott: Interesting. I agree with quite a few of those reads. Acott, maybe you could explain what you were thinking in your vote post better? It looked pretty damn scummy in retrospect, don't you agree?
Now I'm wondering how to make sense of the DHY read. Here are the options:
A. They are both scum and Scott is bussing. Sadly, I don't see this as being very likely because it hasn't been that long since Calix's post so he wouldn't know if it overwhelmingly convinced town to the point where he would have to bus. OR MAYBE THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS US TO THINK! WIFOM. I also find this unlikely because the numbers would be horrendous for Scott going onwards, and there is no way he would be allowed to live to the final day. The only thing Scott would have going for him is if he is the GF and therefore if there is an investigator, they will become useless for the remainder of the game and Scott might get town cred for bussing that can't be factually revoked.
B. Scott is scum, DHY is town. I think this one is self-explanatory. Scott jumps on the train early on and is doing so out of self-defense. Chances are he would still be lynched next day with a green flip on DHY, but maybe he is hoping he could weasel his way out? This would effectively leave Scott in no better a position than in A., and I find it hard to believe he has balls of this size. Perhaps he is banking on his ally pulling through; that they are someone who is highly trusted right now.
C. Scott is town, DHY is scum. Again, pretty self-explanatory. Scott genuinely feels DHY is scum/is doing it to stay alive. Can't glean much from this perspective , seems logically possible.
D. They are both town. Similar mindset to C, except the outcome is worse for town. Seems less likely than C but I might be tunneling and thus want to believe at least one of them must be scum.
I definitely like Scott's post-accusation post better than DHY's, but DHY spent his remaining free time trying to create a case on me so didn't have time to do anything else I'm guessing. I'd like to hear what DHY comes back with in terms of reads so I can get a more solid opinion. I'd also like to see more detailed filter analysis from Scott on at least his scum reads and perhaps his soft town reads.
Sigh, it's hard for me to pick which option is the most likely. If I knew more about Scott as a player (whether he has the gumption to continue playing in options A or B). What does everyone else think?
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On September 26 2016 13:50 scott31337 wrote:
So I'll try to explain it better for you-
So last night, Luna was looking pretty bad, after he made the blue post - he got really defensive. I was thinking about voting for him at that time - but no one had town read him, defended him, or really push another lynch. This made me fear he was town. I even asked him straight up who he'd like to lynch.
So this morning, all he had was two new posts - and they had 0 usable content. It was all "why you calling me mafia etc". Skynx wanted to go for another lynch as well now (DYH in post #462)
With the above new information, I put my vote on Luna and he never posted again.
I see, this can actually make sense. I don't remember if you had other posts around that one that could have explained it better, but in a vacuum it looked just terrible. I feel like you worded it in the worst possible way. I might actually buy this, but for now the only thing I'm sure of is that I'd vote DHY over you (even though you both successfully improving my opinion of you, to varying degrees). I'd take another look at you after some posts and the night flip of course.
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On September 26 2016 14:55 Superbia wrote:
Somewhere in eod
Are you going to leave it at that or...?
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On September 26 2016 17:06 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 13:30 Jealous wrote:
@Scott: Interesting. I agree with quite a few of those reads. Acott, maybe you could explain what you were thinking in your vote post better? It looked pretty damn scummy in retrospect, don't you agree?
Now I'm wondering how to make sense of the DHY read. Here are the options:
A. They are both scum and Scott is bussing. Sadly, I don't see this as being very likely because it hasn't been that long since Calix's post so he wouldn't know if it overwhelmingly convinced town to the point where he would have to bus. OR MAYBE THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS US TO THINK! WIFOM. I also find this unlikely because the numbers would be horrendous for Scott going onwards, and there is no way he would be allowed to live to the final day. The only thing Scott would have going for him is if he is the GF and therefore if there is an investigator, they will become useless for the remainder of the game and Scott might get town cred for bussing that can't be factually revoked.
B. Scott is scum, DHY is town. I think this one is self-explanatory. Scott jumps on the train early on and is doing so out of self-defense. Chances are he would still be lynched next day with a green flip on DHY, but maybe he is hoping he could weasel his way out? This would effectively leave Scott in no better a position than in A., and I find it hard to believe he has balls of this size. Perhaps he is banking on his ally pulling through; that they are someone who is highly trusted right now.
C. Scott is town, DHY is scum. Again, pretty self-explanatory. Scott genuinely feels DHY is scum/is doing it to stay alive. Can't glean much from this perspective , seems logically possible.
D. They are both town. Similar mindset to C, except the outcome is worse for town. Seems less likely than C but I might be tunneling and thus want to believe at least one of them must be scum.
I definitely like Scott's post-accusation post better than DHY's, but DHY spent his remaining free time trying to create a case on me so didn't have time to do anything else I'm guessing. I'd like to hear what DHY comes back with in terms of reads so I can get a more solid opinion. I'd also like to see more detailed filter analysis from Scott on at least his scum reads and perhaps his soft town reads.
Sigh, it's hard for me to pick which option is the most likely. If I knew more about Scott as a player (whether he has the gumption to continue playing in options A or B). What does everyone else think? I really, really don't understand your way of thinking. If scott is scum he's gonna push a mislynch. Why are you dismissing B) just because "scum!scott would have some balls to push a mislynch on DYH" ? If scott is scum and DYH town, he is merely pushing the easiest mislynch available, not making a big play!
That's more or less what I said. The reason it might have come off as me describing a big play is because I feel that if he succeeds in getting the lynch on a town DYH, Scott is next on the chopping block, after which we'd presumably have only 1 scum left. The reason I didn't find it likely is because it seems like an unwinnable scenario and I wasn't sure if Scott would go for it.
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Great posts by Daneler and ptmc. I did something similar in my first mafia game this year and people were calling me out for being a try - hard or whatnot, but it's such a blessing for people to construct good cases that have a lot of summary and post referencing, because not everyone has the time to create such a case themselves. Definite townie points from me.
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On September 26 2016 17:56 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 06:18 Jealous wrote:On September 26 2016 05:53 scott31337 wrote:On September 26 2016 05:48 Jealous wrote:
## Vote Lunaticman Want to post any other thoughts on the game Jealous? I've posted what I deem a sufficient amount about Lunaticman prior to the vote; I actually voted for him in this thread much earlier than most of you, from what I can tell, but I forgot that I have to vote in the other thread. As far as my thoughts as I'm catching up, here's what I have (pretty loose, not on a PC until tomorrow and working until then): Scott - In my experience Scott is always a man of few words so I don't feel his brevity is AI. Superbia - welcome back, his type of spam might be what this game needed to be revitalized. I would like to see him speaking more specifically and referencing posts more clearly beyond just saying "I read his filter and I feel x." He also has the convenience of arriving into the thread when everything is more or less set in stone. But, because I myself am busy, I can relate. Calix - am slightly surprised by her willingness to judge me for not being very confident or conclusive on people in D1 as I feel she knows me well enough to know that this isn't out of the norm. D2 is when I always do a lot of work, so I don't mind that you guys (particularly Rels) are giving me some crap over being soft-spoken because that will all change when I have concrete things to work off of and tie to posts. Daneler - might be riding on the good feels he got from my posts before I became inactive, but he should have picked up on the general turn of town's opinion on me and the fact that it is reasonable I'm a vacuum. I agree with Rels that I wasn't a big fan of his list post. Rels - staying on the ball and being assertive with his position, which I like. His going after me is forgivable because as I said it is justifiable and will not be the case come D2. Xan - it's awkward for me to look back on my phone to make sure that it was him trying to create a second train, but if it was indeed him I'd have to say it seems like a stupid thing to attempt so openly and at this juncture. Stupidity isn't necessarily AI but in theory, taking votes off Lunaticman and creating the potential for shennanies (which are popular on TL and thus unfortunately not always AI)... Could be a dumb scum move. If it was not Xan who did this, attribute the same reasoning to whoever else it was that initiated this thought, and apologies to Xan.Stutter - still haven't seen anything from him that would make me change my mind about him being my #2 lynch pick. Nothing that I recall off the top of my head sticks out, but I'm not fully caught up so maybe I'll add some more as I walk to the store before EoD. Hmm. Looking back on this, it does seem pretty odd. I mean... The scumread(?) on me is apparently based on the fact that I entertained the thought of having two wagons rather than just all votes on Lunatic for more useful vote analysis (no matter Lunatic's alignment, this vote distribution wouldn't tell much regarding the voters' alignments at that rate). However... Jealous feels like he already knows Lunatic's alignment here and prepares for future pushes a bit prematurely... I mean... The whole premise is that any vote off of Lunatic = scummy, despite the fact that Lunatic's alignment was unknown, it wouldn't be scummy even if Lunatic was scum (provided that he would still have the majority of votes) and I wasn't even prepared to vote Scott personally as the second wagon like had been suggested... It's just an odd accusation that feels somehow like Jealous knew what Lunatic would flip beforehand and prepared based on that knowledge. Hm.
1. You summarized my point just now, again. You contradicted yourself within one sentence by sayong that you're pushing for a second train even though you know it wouldn't accomplish anything. It makes no sense. I don't see why we're revisiting this from a logical standpoint. I still think it was a dumb idea regardless of outcome.
2. Assuming I have prior knowledge of Lunatic's alignment is a stretch at best. He was my #1 scum read and I was one of the first people who voted for him, even before Calix according to ptmc's summary (I know, technically I didn't vote for him in the thread, I had forgotten that I had to). I guess being confident in your scum read and not wanting people to take votes off of him = suspect behavior in your book? Please.
3. I explained that stupidity isn't AI but such a move could be at the hands of a stupid scum. I don't see how you could disagree with this, given that you yourself admit the plan was pointless... but then again, given that you've said something stupid once means that it could happen again.
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On September 27 2016 00:38 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 00:35 ptmc wrote:
I don't even think he really dismisses it, just for him (an his playstyle) it feels suboptimal.
Anyway, i have to go now. Probably won't be back before the nightkill, so see you tomorrow! Well Jealous what would you expect scum!scott to do in this scenario then ?
Forfeit was the other option to B that I was thinking about. What you're saying is of course true - dying D3 is better than dying D2, and as I said there is a chance he has a well-liked ally who Scott is putting his faith in. I was going to say that I find B/C to be the most likely variants but I wanted objective opinions from others on it before presenting my own.
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On September 27 2016 00:47 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 00:46 Jealous wrote:On September 27 2016 00:38 Rels wrote:On September 27 2016 00:35 ptmc wrote:
I don't even think he really dismisses it, just for him (an his playstyle) it feels suboptimal.
Anyway, i have to go now. Probably won't be back before the nightkill, so see you tomorrow! Well Jealous what would you expect scum!scott to do in this scenario then ? Forfeit was the other option to B that I was thinking about. What you're saying is of course true - dying D3 is better than dying D2, and as I said there is a chance he has a well-liked ally who Scott is putting his faith in. I was going to say that I find B/C to be the most likely variants but I wanted objective opinions from others on it before presenting my own. So if scott is scum he would likely forfeit right now rather than pushing DYH ?
No. That's exactly why at the end I said "I'm not sure the kind of player Scott is, if he would have thay kind of gumption." It was just a nagging thought in the back of my mind. Let's say there is a n% chance that a scum would push for a ML and a m% chance he would forfeit. This detracts from my confidence in this being the scenario.
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On September 27 2016 01:21 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 00:41 Jealous wrote:On September 26 2016 17:56 Xatalos wrote:On September 26 2016 06:18 Jealous wrote:On September 26 2016 05:53 scott31337 wrote:On September 26 2016 05:48 Jealous wrote:
## Vote Lunaticman Want to post any other thoughts on the game Jealous? I've posted what I deem a sufficient amount about Lunaticman prior to the vote; I actually voted for him in this thread much earlier than most of you, from what I can tell, but I forgot that I have to vote in the other thread. As far as my thoughts as I'm catching up, here's what I have (pretty loose, not on a PC until tomorrow and working until then): Scott - In my experience Scott is always a man of few words so I don't feel his brevity is AI. Superbia - welcome back, his type of spam might be what this game needed to be revitalized. I would like to see him speaking more specifically and referencing posts more clearly beyond just saying "I read his filter and I feel x." He also has the convenience of arriving into the thread when everything is more or less set in stone. But, because I myself am busy, I can relate. Calix - am slightly surprised by her willingness to judge me for not being very confident or conclusive on people in D1 as I feel she knows me well enough to know that this isn't out of the norm. D2 is when I always do a lot of work, so I don't mind that you guys (particularly Rels) are giving me some crap over being soft-spoken because that will all change when I have concrete things to work off of and tie to posts. Daneler - might be riding on the good feels he got from my posts before I became inactive, but he should have picked up on the general turn of town's opinion on me and the fact that it is reasonable I'm a vacuum. I agree with Rels that I wasn't a big fan of his list post. Rels - staying on the ball and being assertive with his position, which I like. His going after me is forgivable because as I said it is justifiable and will not be the case come D2. Xan - it's awkward for me to look back on my phone to make sure that it was him trying to create a second train, but if it was indeed him I'd have to say it seems like a stupid thing to attempt so openly and at this juncture. Stupidity isn't necessarily AI but in theory, taking votes off Lunaticman and creating the potential for shennanies (which are popular on TL and thus unfortunately not always AI)... Could be a dumb scum move. If it was not Xan who did this, attribute the same reasoning to whoever else it was that initiated this thought, and apologies to Xan.Stutter - still haven't seen anything from him that would make me change my mind about him being my #2 lynch pick. Nothing that I recall off the top of my head sticks out, but I'm not fully caught up so maybe I'll add some more as I walk to the store before EoD. Hmm. Looking back on this, it does seem pretty odd. I mean... The scumread(?) on me is apparently based on the fact that I entertained the thought of having two wagons rather than just all votes on Lunatic for more useful vote analysis (no matter Lunatic's alignment, this vote distribution wouldn't tell much regarding the voters' alignments at that rate). However... Jealous feels like he already knows Lunatic's alignment here and prepares for future pushes a bit prematurely... I mean... The whole premise is that any vote off of Lunatic = scummy, despite the fact that Lunatic's alignment was unknown, it wouldn't be scummy even if Lunatic was scum (provided that he would still have the majority of votes) and I wasn't even prepared to vote Scott personally as the second wagon like had been suggested... It's just an odd accusation that feels somehow like Jealous knew what Lunatic would flip beforehand and prepared based on that knowledge. Hm. 1. You summarized my point just now, again. You contradicted yourself within one sentence by sayong that you're pushing for a second train even though you know it wouldn't accomplish anything. It makes no sense. I don't see why we're revisiting this from a logical standpoint. I still think it was a dumb idea regardless of outcome. 2. Assuming I have prior knowledge of Lunatic's alignment is a stretch at best. He was my #1 scum read and I was one of the first people who voted for him, even before Calix according to ptmc's summary (I know, technically I didn't vote for him in the thread, I had forgotten that I had to). I guess being confident in your scum read and not wanting people to take votes off of him = suspect behavior in your book? Please. 3. I explained that stupidity isn't AI but such a move could be at the hands of a stupid scum. I don't see how you could disagree with this, given that you yourself admit the plan was pointless... but then again, given that you've said something stupid once means that it could happen again. 1) I guess you're just fundamentally misunderstanding or misrepresenting my point. When did I even push a second wagon? I only said that it wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea, as Superbia was already going for it anyway, even if I disagreed with the target (Scott). I didn't even consider switching my own vote or pushing for another target, as Lunatic was my first pick. But it definitely wouldn't have been a bad thing if another wagon gained a bit of steam on its own weight, since on the chance that Lunatic (or the new wagon) was scum, it could possibly reveal the whole scumteam while at it (as had happened in one game I played over at Vendetta Strada and the scumteam went into a full panic mode when there was a town vs scum lynch). 2) Another interpretation would be that you had the knowledge of him being scum and went a bit overboard by basing your other reads on him already flipping scum. I never said that wanting to lynch him was bad, but the way you went about making your other reads as if he had already flipped scum did look bad. 3) I guess anything is possible. But is it likely? Even if I had pushed a secondary wagon (I didn't), it would have only been slightly scummy at best since Lunatic was pretty much dead at that point no matter what (7+ votes on Lunatic and most people AFK), so what would it achieve from scum perspective... You might ask, then what would it achieve from town perspective? As I explained, it's always better to have a bit of action closer to the end rather than a passive single wagon. Under pressure, scum make mistakes, whereas definitely not in this kind of situation. It's stupid to assume that the scumteam would be a perfect machine that would never make mistakes. It's not a low chance that some scum would make a stupid vote to try saving Lunatic or something.
Aha. I see where the key issue is. It was Superbia's idea not yours (apologies from 24 hr ago apply now). I'm willing to drop this then, if you are. It was never that big of a read for me in the first place, just struck me as particularly stupid and out of place time-wise, in which I believe we can agree on the latter.
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On September 27 2016 02:43 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 02:34 Xatalos wrote:
I guess so. It's not a big thing for me how you assumed that Lunatic was certainly scum either. Though I wonder how you made it such a big deal without even reading the situation
I was in New York (not home or at a computer) catching up on the thread on my phone. I haven't been at a laptop since Saturday morning. I read the discussion quickly but failed to note exactly who started it. So, I directed it at you when I was making the summary post, but added (if this wasn't Xan then I apologize).
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On September 27 2016 02:36 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 01:48 Xatalos wrote:On September 27 2016 01:43 Xatalos wrote:On September 27 2016 00:20 Rels wrote:On September 26 2016 23:47 ptmc wrote:I went through the Lunatic trainwreck again and tried to objectively sum up what happend chronologically, open for "unbiased" read: + Show Spoiler +Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote:
I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see. Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where I give my reasons why I think a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls me out because ptmc "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic. SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today" Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw. Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote:
##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. Next post, scott votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote:
Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him. Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like his two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work And my comments for it, marked in red stuff i think is scummy, in green things i think is towny (obviously in the light of the successful lynch) with some comments centered where i needed to say some more + Show Spoiler +Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie"Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-readSkynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post this is maybe not red, but at least weird Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual contentptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) again, at least weird, since it had obviously already sparked discussion DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later"Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels"Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing LunaticXatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read.
Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on LunaticI guess this is Lunatics blue role claim on stutters working out as intended? Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiateXatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involvedDanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read
Rels agreesXatalos reacts with On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote:
I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see. Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated.Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic
Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring LunaticSkynx now asks about Lunatics town readptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd"Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where ptmc gives his reasons why he thinks a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls ptmc out because he "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blueStutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own"
DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQJealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town postDYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Mafia feeling out the waters if it is bussing time? Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic. SEQ is now the first vote on LunaticJealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today"This looks so much like bussing, especially with him ignoring those posts previously Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQstill no word on lunatic except the earlier "no comment" Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw. Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on himLunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1)
Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynchXatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes LunaticRels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his trSkynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed townXatalos questions this logicRels votes LunaticSkynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic i will not give green "points" from here on for voting lunatic, since the train has reached critical mass already On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote:
##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. Next post, scott votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote:
Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him. Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like scotts two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work Take home message says scott had access to very bad posts by Lunatic way before he goes afk, but choses to ignore them. Only when the train has become unstoppable for mafia he "revisits" them and now they are strong enough to lynch for. Other reads from the Lunaticman-Lynch: solid town: DanelerH Calix town lean: Jealous Rels SEQ superbia (for actually noticing scott) inconsistent: Xatalos Skynx scum leans (lynch all day err'day) Scott, stutters, dyh This is quite impressive p: in particular this made me reread Jealous post where he called Lunatic's post retarded. It's very true that it's a strong word to use on your teammate so it is a town indicator for Jealous. Stutters is still 99% town because of how Lunatic treated him. And Superbia did like nothing this game yet, if scott is scum I agree that he's a unlikely partner but until that happens he's not town. Other than that, this list is pretty good Slight disagreements.. 1) It's pretty safe to call a scummate "retarded". Basically it just downplays their ability to play, making them less suspicious if they do something stupid/anti-town. 2) Lunatic's posting about Stutters would make little sense if they're teammates, but Stutters himself didn't react to Lunatic in a way that would raise much confidence, so.... I'd say Stutters is still a bad lynch, but not sure town. 3) True, he's not done much, but he's been very blatant about it... He seemed pretty relaxed when Lunatic was heading for the slaughter too. On second thoughts, he did seem to hesitate about going for a counter-push on scott or not. It would fit a scum motivation if scott is town, but that's not certain at all. It's certain to me that I'm town, yo I also think PT's and Dandel's posts were pretty good as well. I swear every time I lynch mafia in a game (I think only once when I got Wile. E with that RB track) every one thinks I bussed. It's so annoying
The question is, how often have you bussed and then claimed town?
But in all seriousness, you can't exactly fault people for their read on you given that scum is almost definitely on the Lunatic vote.
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@Calix: I'm still on my phone as I still have not made it back home lol. So I guess you could call it lazy but I'll be dammed if I try to navigate multiple tabs on my phone and search who said what when it was the idea and not the person that I was affronted by. As you said, I covered the possibility that I made a mistake.
@Skynx: Are you really just going to play "he said, she said" and use it to justify a town read on Scott based on a meta read someone from outside the game had that states that he doesn't bus scum teammates?
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On September 28 2016 01:06 Tictock wrote:I'm trying to avoid quoting and posting while catching up, but... Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 06:18 Jealous wrote:
Xan - it's awkward for me to look back on my phone to make sure that it was him trying to create a second train, but if it was indeed him I'd have to say it seems like a stupid thing to attempt so openly and at this juncture. Stupidity isn't necessarily AI but in theory, taking votes off Lunaticman and creating the potential for shennanies (which are popular on TL and thus unfortunately not always AI)... Could be a dumb scum move. If it was not Xan who did this, attribute the same reasoning to whoever else it was that initiated this thought, and apologies to Xan.
Jealous can you restate this for me, or give me an updated version of what you were trying to say here? Kus I can't figure out what you are trying to say here.
Ignore it.
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It seems like people have mostly vocally agreed on DYH with a few exceptions, but I don't see the votes on him. I'll construct my case on him then, just so that it's out there. I was going to revisit Stutters but I see DYH as priority right now. Working.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 24 2016 11:26 DoYouHas wrote:
I think I like you as well Stutters. Good on ya.
-
I'll try to get into something beyond these gut reads tomorrow, hopefully when a few more people have posted. As is I'm pretty happy with tonight. 3/5 for my town pile and 2 I need to think about and watch. Gnight.
Promises more substance tomorrow, let's see if he delivers.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote:
I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
He's been gone for almost 24 hours and comes back with this. For reference, Stutters was making a case on SEQ and told people to go look at SEQ filter. DYH is basically saying "okay, I'll do what you suggest to check out your scumread and work with you, but only if you give me your thoughts on ptmc, about whom I haven't said a word yet." I don't know if this is very townie behavior. Why wouldn't he just give his thoughts on SEQ and then ask about ptmc?
+ Show Spoiler [Sidenote] +Interesting post from Xata on this, prior to DoYouHas' return: On September 25 2016 06:50 Xatalos wrote:
DoYouHas did make quite a bit of posts earlier btw. 6 posts, only 4 of which were during the game, and none of which had substance besides 3 gut reads. Is this really worth commenting on? Is this really "quite a bit?" Hmm.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 25 2016 10:16 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 10:15 Jealous wrote:On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote:
The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded. It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum? On September 25 2016 10:53 DoYouHas wrote:
So is it bad enough that you would want to lynch him or do you currently have a stronger scum read on someone else currently? On September 25 2016 11:09 DoYouHas wrote:
@Jealous, are you in and out? Why is it taking you this long to respond to me?
As Tictock pointed out, DYH seems to be pressuring me more than Lunatic despite (at least superficially) agreeing with me that Lunatic is playing anti-town. In fact, DYH hadn't said a word about Lunatic at all up until this point. Surely he saw the post? Why ignore Lunatic? Why jump on me?
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2016 03:45 DoYouHas wrote:You have Giacomo! (so long as you are leading against DH, Luna, or Jealous)
So he throws Luna into the mix now that Luna has drawn attention but dilutes it by throwing two other names in there, neither of which he had mentioned until now. The only person he had really said anything of substance about until here is SEQ, besides his gutreads at the start of the game. (Also, he didn't really contribute anything in over 27 hours, despite promising to do so). This is his first time calling any of the three scum, and does it in a way that provides no substance whatsoever.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2016 03:58 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote:
I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well. Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up. DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared. Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that. Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
Here he elaborates, imaginably because he is trying to get Superbia to sheep him. Doesn't like DH for scumreading Luna, despite also saying Luna is "possible scum," and then puts me in the same group again. Note, I was against Luna at the time as well. How would that team of 3 ever make sense? Both I and DH go for a bus halfway through D1 when there were only a handful of pages and posts, after telling Lunatic to post like an idiot? That's a stretch, and DYH makes no sense here otherwise.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2016 04:04 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 03:59 Superbia wrote:On September 26 2016 03:58 DoYouHas wrote:On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote:
I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well. Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up. DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared. Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that. Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum. So uh. Read on DH is pre-flip association or what? I don't think Luna and Dane are likely to be scum together, but taking there play individually I think either of them could be scum here. Is that what you meant?
I guess this explains the previous post somewhat, but he only makes the distinction when asked by Superbia? You would think that would be something you'd want to put in your post that is supposed to be informative to Superbia, and not only when probed further. In short, he threw out three scum reads he had never mentioned until then, then elaborated on it, but didn't mention he didn't think they were on a team together. That's careless at best; misleading seems more likely.
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote:
##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
This post still sucks.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2016 04:27 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 04:20 Rels wrote:On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote:
I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ. On September 25 2016 11:02 DoYouHas wrote:On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote:
I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ. I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond. Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also. SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it. Calix is right. The sequence seems pretty forced. DYH said "I'll exchange your read on ptmc for my read on SEQ" when his read on SEQ is null. And it also looks like he was waiting of Stutters to go "OK what's your read on SEQ now ?"; but Stutters didn't, and DYH said it anyway. It looks like it was planned to appear to have a conversation. Or maybe, just maybe, both of your assumptions are wrong here. 1. I wasn't providing a null read on SEQ 2. I was actually trying to have a conversation with someone I townread.
Stutters being the "someone I townread," which he did with "gut" in the first few hours of the game, which he never mentioned again. Also note that he still hasn't provided anything as he had promised at the start.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2016 10:32 DoYouHas wrote:
Ok, here is where I'm at for the night
Mafia
Jealous
Town
Rels
SEQ
Calix
Stutters
Skynx
Probably Town
Xata
Looking better post-flip
Dane
Unsure
Scott
Superbia
ptmc
Dane(again)
I ask why I am his scumread, only scumread.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2016 11:56 DoYouHas wrote:GRAH, I CAN'T MAKE IT STICK For everything I don't like about you and think makes you scum: Your early fluff, non-committal, over-defensiveness, appeals to your noobieness, misrepresenting me, buddying Calix, looking at the proposal of multiple wagons from a mafia perspective instead of a town one (looking at it as a trap to be avoided instead of as an opportunity for better VCA) I can't seem to find the mafia actions in your play around the lynch. If I'm having trouble convincing myself of probably the most important part when I undoubtedly have my confirmation bias glasses on it probably isn't there. I was seeing your tonal shifts from casually attacking Luna to guarded consideration then back to casual attacking as very odd. But the thing I can't figure out if you are scum is why you would leave your vote on Luna and not Stutters before the wagon on Luna got rolling. This post: Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 17:17 Jealous wrote:
I have to agree with Calix on the more anti-town part. [B]## Lunaticman[b] just in case I don't make it back. It doesn't fit or is significantly more clever than I am. Damn, damn, damn. I hate having no scum reads. I really do need to get to bed though. See you all with the daypost.
This takes him a whole hour and he calls me all sorts of terrible but still can't make a case. This means he is town/null-reading everyone in the game, was pushing a lynch/scumread since his first few posts D1 that he himself can't support and had given no concrete evidence on at all until he was forced to draw some out. That is simply foolish, and scummy in my book.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513316-newbie-student-mafia-xxiii?page=40#791
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513316-newbie-student-mafia-xxiii?page=40#792
These are his last two posts, nearly a day ago. And frankly, I don't think they are very good. Although I think Rels post did have some stuff I didn't agree with, and DYH pointed them out, the rest of it was pretty weak. He doesn't make much sense in some parts nor does he substantiate much of his argument about why DH or I were scummy, which he references a few times. His earlier posts on the subject were, as you can see above, were weak as well, so it's not like he could reference some strong analysis from before.
Overall, I think DYH is scum. I don't think neither Xata nor skynx are worth a vote right now, but I will definitely look into them more in detail. There are still some fishy things I don't like about Xata and Skynx doesn't seem to be paying much attention to the game in certain posts of his, which I don't like but can't necessarily say is scummy until I see them side-by-side in analysis.
So yea, I voted DYH.
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I won't be around for EoD because I'm stuck in the lab. Here's what I'm thinking so far:
1. Xata: Although he put in effort and produced some content, as I was reading it I realized I wasn't agreeing with some key points in it, mostly his team associations and rationale. I was expecting to read through the post and glean something new from another perspective, but for the most part I feel that he just repeated the same reads he's had for a while in a different way with better formatting. His completely forgetting ptmc is curious as he referenced him within the same post, which isn't really saying anything AI but speaks of how thoroughly he has gone through the thread while making this list. He is still intent on Skynx, still doesn't want to give me much credit for pushing Luna, and failed to arrive at anything definitive. He has 2 scumreads but says they can't be on a team together?
2. Skynx: I'm actually really liking his list of reads right now. I wouldn't put Xata in the conf.scum category quite yet. I find Stutters and DYH to be much worse. What is more important for me is that he is showing what I find to be a more realistic view of the game so far, better than he did a few pages/days ago when I would look at some of his read s and go "huh?" I fear there might be a decent possibility that him vs. Xata is TvT but I'm not yet convinced. Either way, I wouldn't lynch Xata today. Skynx moves a little closer to a town lean for me.
3. I still dislike Stutters greatly. Maybe even more so than DYH, but that might be a chronological bias since I've seen more said about him recently and no words out of his mouth about it. The defense of Stutters seems to hinge on one post of Lunatic's, which I don't find to be a very good thing to put our money on. A person. Who could fuck up D1 so royally could fuck up more than once.
I am tempted to switch to Stutters, but I'll keep my money on DYH since I read into his filter more and thus won't be taking someone else's word for it.
Scummy af: DYH, Stutters
Nullish: Scott, Skynx, Xata
Town of varying degrees: everyone else
I have the paranoid suspicion that one of our trusted townies might be a bussing scum but I've learned to fight through that paranoia and focus on the tangible until my current scumlist is settled.
See y'all after work.
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Making this post as a future reference for myself : null wars.
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So I get to the lab and it's closed due to an emergency, thanks for calling me guys! Love commuting! <3 At least now I can stick around until EoD.
On September 29 2016 05:31 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2016 05:26 Calix wrote:On September 29 2016 05:23 Xatalos wrote:On September 29 2016 05:21 Calix wrote:
Hell no we're not doing CFDs.
Also hi. Hi. Did you read my post yet? Who cares about finding the entire scum team on D2? lol. I have tried that before and it's a really bad idea. Just means the scum will be on their guard and making sure their interactions are like "kk this is how we're going to fuck with the associations lul" and means people get stuck in a tunnel of confirmation bias. I'd know all about that. tl;dr: No, I don't need to read it to know it's bad and you're bad for doing that. It's worked for me in the past though. In one game it pretty much won the game. Granted, it was on D3/D4 or something, so a bit later.
Although I've heard others say it isn't recommended too, I also have had a good experience with doing this in D4. However, I feel that there is a time and place, and this was not it. The broadness of your findings are a testament to this.
On September 29 2016 06:06 DoYouHas wrote:
I have absolutely not read D2 properly. As I said, I've been slammed.
Then why are you posting reads that are outdated instead of updating your information?
@Calix: #gotem
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On September 29 2016 06:11 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2016 06:08 Tictock wrote:
DYH, why are we getting these reads 2 at a time? Iunno, gets em out faster but in 5 posts instead of 10? Because I am, that's why. Next 2 are harder. I haven't paid much attention to skynx or scott this game.
"Hey guys, I haven't read half of the game and I haven't really paid any attention to these posters, but here's my opinion."
![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_E9NPoeLuzC4/SBduCiDE-sI/AAAAAAAAAMM/ChOEeq0pFsc/s320/miss-south-carolina-2007-teen-pageant.jpg)
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The amount of people who have 20 minutes to cast a vote... ;;
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On September 29 2016 06:35 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2016 06:28 Rels wrote:On September 29 2016 06:27 DoYouHas wrote:On September 29 2016 06:23 Jealous wrote:On September 29 2016 06:11 DoYouHas wrote:On September 29 2016 06:08 Tictock wrote:
DYH, why are we getting these reads 2 at a time? Iunno, gets em out faster but in 5 posts instead of 10? Because I am, that's why. Next 2 are harder. I haven't paid much attention to skynx or scott this game. "Hey guys, I haven't read half of the game and I haven't really paid any attention to these posters, but here's my opinion." This is an extremely odd thing to say to your #1 scum read on the eve of his flip. Why ? It is pretty true True or not you don't tell someone you think is scum to stop posting pre-flip, that is extremely foolish.
I didn't tell you to stop posting pre-flip, I suggested that you might want to read the thread before posting reads tho. Like, pick one person and give a read, if you're pressed for time.
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On September 29 2016 06:34 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2016 06:24 Calix wrote:
Actually I have one question. DYH, who are you going to vote for and why? Don't spend ages on answering this, lol. ##Vote: ScottI've been thinking about Superbia's kill. There are 4 reasons I can think of for it. 1. Medic dodge. 2. Town is off track, didn't want a fresh vet voice changing things 3. Superbia is on right track 4. WIFOM salad #1 is obviously the case. With their RB gone they aren't going to target Calix (most townread person N1). #2 is iffy. Obviously taking out a fresh voice in Superbia accomplishes this, but he isn't heavily townread and he has stated repeatedly that he was going to be lazy this game. #3 is the most likely case. After losing your RB the first night you can't risk someone with correct suspicions putting you down 0-2. Most common reason to kill someone, also makes the most sense from the mafia perspective this game. #4 is very unlikely. There are too many people who have established themselves decently as town, too many people more productive than Superbia.
What about the fact that Superbia posted that he was a PR? You don't think scum might have said "fuck it, why not?" If they did, then who would it be that would call Superbia's bluff?
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I'm starting to WIFOM over the fact that DYH showed up just before EoD when the train is on him. Like, would a scum normally do this? I don't think I would lol. The reason it's WIFOM is because maybe he is trying to make people doubt his scumminess last second and shenanie? I'm locked in but I'll feel a little bad about it if he flips town ):
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I petition that if DYH is scum, and Stutters doesn't vote, that the game ends here and we get all the trophies.
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On September 29 2016 06:49 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2016 06:48 Jealous wrote:
I petition that if DYH is scum, and Stutters doesn't vote, that the game ends here and we get all the trophies. I will get the trophies and you will be jealous
Your vote is on Skynx hahahahaha
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I felt guilty because DYH was coming off as town in those last posts, truly trying to help town and all that... it was at the point when it was obvious no one would take their votes off him and everything he had to say was futile, he kept posting for town... hence the guilt ;-;
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On September 30 2016 01:24 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2016 23:41 Jealous wrote:
I felt guilty because DYH was coming off as town in those last posts, truly trying to help town and all that... it was at the point when it was obvious no one would take their votes off him and everything he had to say was futile, he kept posting for town... hence the guilt ;-; You know it does seem a bit odd that if your starting to think someone might be town enough to feel guilty about their flip that you'd post that you are "locked in" rather than suggest a vote switch.
I'm locked in because of evidence, guilty because feels. Evidence > feels.
Also, @Calix, the only reason I made the long post on DYH is because even though he was being discussed, he only had 2 or 3 votes including myself, 1 on Xata/skynx, and like 6 people yet to vote. I figured people needed more convincing so I did an analysis post by post. Naturally, I came up with some of the same things others had up until that point and reiterated some of my own previous analysis. Don't really see how you're trying to fault me on this one, feels like you're trying to make something out of nothing for the sake of never being without a scumlean.
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There had to be a reason why Rels was chosen over Calix imo. Reading both filters should help. Will do that in a few hours.
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On September 30 2016 07:43 Jealous wrote:
There had to be a reason why Rels was chosen over Calix imo. Reading both filters should help. Will do that in a few hours.
Sorry, too much work. Will have to wait until tomorrow, probably around 3-4 PM EST.
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On October 01 2016 03:14 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 02:29 Skynx wrote:On September 29 2016 22:17 Calix wrote:So I decided to look back through the posts leading up to the ML and I think Jealous has the most questionable sequence with regards to his DYH read. Here's what tipped me off: + Show Spoiler +On September 28 2016 08:31 Jealous wrote:
It seems like people have mostly vocally agreed on DYH with a few exceptions, but I don't see the votes on him. I'll construct my case on him then, just so that it's out there. I was going to revisit Stutters but I see DYH as priority right now. Working. On September 28 2016 09:09 Jealous wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 24 2016 11:26 DoYouHas wrote:
I think I like you as well Stutters. Good on ya.
-
I'll try to get into something beyond these gut reads tomorrow, hopefully when a few more people have posted. As is I'm pretty happy with tonight. 3/5 for my town pile and 2 I need to think about and watch. Gnight. Promises more substance tomorrow, let's see if he delivers. + Show Spoiler +On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote:
I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ. He's been gone for almost 24 hours and comes back with this. For reference, Stutters was making a case on SEQ and told people to go look at SEQ filter. DYH is basically saying "okay, I'll do what you suggest to check out your scumread and work with you, but only if you give me your thoughts on ptmc, about whom I haven't said a word yet." I don't know if this is very townie behavior. Why wouldn't he just give his thoughts on SEQ and then ask about ptmc? + Show Spoiler [Sidenote] +Interesting post from Xata on this, prior to DoYouHas' return: On September 25 2016 06:50 Xatalos wrote:
DoYouHas did make quite a bit of posts earlier btw. 6 posts, only 4 of which were during the game, and none of which had substance besides 3 gut reads. Is this really worth commenting on? Is this really "quite a bit?" Hmm. On September 25 2016 10:16 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 10:15 Jealous wrote:On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote:
The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded. It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum? On September 25 2016 10:53 DoYouHas wrote:
So is it bad enough that you would want to lynch him or do you currently have a stronger scum read on someone else currently? On September 25 2016 11:09 DoYouHas wrote:
@Jealous, are you in and out? Why is it taking you this long to respond to me? As Tictock pointed out, DYH seems to be pressuring me more than Lunatic despite (at least superficially) agreeing with me that Lunatic is playing anti-town. In fact, DYH hadn't said a word about Lunatic at all up until this point. Surely he saw the post? Why ignore Lunatic? Why jump on me? + Show Spoiler +On September 26 2016 03:45 DoYouHas wrote:You have Giacomo! (so long as you are leading against DH, Luna, or Jealous) So he throws Luna into the mix now that Luna has drawn attention but dilutes it by throwing two other names in there, neither of which he had mentioned until now. The only person he had really said anything of substance about until here is SEQ, besides his gutreads at the start of the game. (Also, he didn't really contribute anything in over 27 hours, despite promising to do so). This is his first time calling any of the three scum, and does it in a way that provides no substance whatsoever. + Show Spoiler +On September 26 2016 03:58 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote:
I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well. Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up. DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared. Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that. Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum. Here he elaborates, imaginably because he is trying to get Superbia to sheep him. Doesn't like DH for scumreading Luna, despite also saying Luna is "possible scum," and then puts me in the same group again. Note, I was against Luna at the time as well. How would that team of 3 ever make sense? Both I and DH go for a bus halfway through D1 when there were only a handful of pages and posts, after telling Lunatic to post like an idiot? That's a stretch, and DYH makes no sense here otherwise. + Show Spoiler +On September 26 2016 04:04 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 03:59 Superbia wrote:On September 26 2016 03:58 DoYouHas wrote:On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote:
I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well. Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up. DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared. Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that. Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum. So uh. Read on DH is pre-flip association or what? I don't think Luna and Dane are likely to be scum together, but taking there play individually I think either of them could be scum here. Is that what you meant? I guess this explains the previous post somewhat, but he only makes the distinction when asked by Superbia? You would think that would be something you'd want to put in your post that is supposed to be informative to Superbia, and not only when probed further. In short, he threw out three scum reads he had never mentioned until then, then elaborated on it, but didn't mention he didn't think they were on a team together. That's careless at best; misleading seems more likely. Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote:
##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. This post still sucks. + Show Spoiler +On September 26 2016 04:27 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 04:20 Rels wrote:On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote:
I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ. On September 25 2016 11:02 DoYouHas wrote:On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote:
I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ. I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond. Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also. SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it. Calix is right. The sequence seems pretty forced. DYH said "I'll exchange your read on ptmc for my read on SEQ" when his read on SEQ is null. And it also looks like he was waiting of Stutters to go "OK what's your read on SEQ now ?"; but Stutters didn't, and DYH said it anyway. It looks like it was planned to appear to have a conversation. Or maybe, just maybe, both of your assumptions are wrong here. 1. I wasn't providing a null read on SEQ 2. I was actually trying to have a conversation with someone I townread. Stutters being the "someone I townread," which he did with "gut" in the first few hours of the game, which he never mentioned again. Also note that he still hasn't provided anything as he had promised at the start. + Show Spoiler +On September 26 2016 10:32 DoYouHas wrote:
Ok, here is where I'm at for the night
Mafia
Jealous
Town
Rels
SEQ
Calix
Stutters
Skynx
Probably Town
Xata
Looking better post-flip
Dane
Unsure
Scott
Superbia
ptmc
Dane(again)
I ask why I am his scumread, only scumread. + Show Spoiler +On September 26 2016 11:56 DoYouHas wrote:GRAH, I CAN'T MAKE IT STICK For everything I don't like about you and think makes you scum: Your early fluff, non-committal, over-defensiveness, appeals to your noobieness, misrepresenting me, buddying Calix, looking at the proposal of multiple wagons from a mafia perspective instead of a town one (looking at it as a trap to be avoided instead of as an opportunity for better VCA) I can't seem to find the mafia actions in your play around the lynch. If I'm having trouble convincing myself of probably the most important part when I undoubtedly have my confirmation bias glasses on it probably isn't there. I was seeing your tonal shifts from casually attacking Luna to guarded consideration then back to casual attacking as very odd. But the thing I can't figure out if you are scum is why you would leave your vote on Luna and not Stutters before the wagon on Luna got rolling. This post: Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 17:17 Jealous wrote:
I have to agree with Calix on the more anti-town part. [B]## Lunaticman just in case I don't make it back. It doesn't fit or is significantly more clever than I am. Damn, damn, damn. I hate having no scum reads. I really do need to get to bed though. See you all with the daypost. This takes him a whole hour and he calls me all sorts of terrible but still can't make a case. This means he is town/null-reading everyone in the game, was pushing a lynch/scumread since his first few posts D1 that he himself can't support and had given no concrete evidence on at all until he was forced to draw some out. That is simply foolish, and scummy in my book. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513316-newbie-student-mafia-xxiii?page=40#791http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513316-newbie-student-mafia-xxiii?page=40#792These are his last two posts, nearly a day ago. And frankly, I don't think they are very good. Although I think Rels post did have some stuff I didn't agree with, and DYH pointed them out, the rest of it was pretty weak. He doesn't make much sense in some parts nor does he substantiate much of his argument about why DH or I were scummy, which he references a few times. His earlier posts on the subject were, as you can see above, were weak as well, so it's not like he could reference some strong analysis from before. Overall, I think DYH is scum. I don't think neither Xata nor skynx are worth a vote right now, but I will definitely look into them more in detail. There are still some fishy things I don't like about Xata and Skynx doesn't seem to be paying much attention to the game in certain posts of his, which I don't like but can't necessarily say is scummy until I see them side-by-side in analysis. So yea, I voted DYH. He acknowledges that DYH is someone that pretty much everyone agrees is scummy, yet he thinks that it's a good use of his time to make a massive case against him and hop on the train because 'he doesn't have that many votes on him'. Keep in mind that DYH is the leading train at this point with the Xatalos/ Skynx thing being supported by almost nobody save for each other and Stutters having a few supporters. That is it. The Stutters train was not even a thing for most of the day. He references a fair number of arguments used by other players (TT, myself, etc) and the points he added aren't anything massively incriminating in retrospect. My point? It makes me wonder why Jealous felt the need to devote a large amount of his time to a case on someone that he was already scum-reading given that he largely rehashes the arguments of other players and this is all on a player that he's already given opinions on. That's not a case of bad priorities, that's posting for the hell of it. If you want an example of not-scummy points he raised, look no further than him criticising DYH for going "Lunatic, Jealous, DanelerH are my scum-reads" because "that team makes no sense". This is all fine and dandy...if we were talking about a post made on Day 4. That's not the case though; he's talking about reads made early on Day 1. Most players do not consider associative tells that early on in the game because the goal is to lynch a scum. Until then, you have no concrete information to base associative reads from so criticising DYH for that is nit-picky and doesn't add anything to the argument. This is also one of the worst EOD posts: [B]On September 29 2016 06:40 Jealous wrote:
I'm starting to WIFOM over the fact that DYH showed up just before EoD when the train is on him. Like, would a scum normally do this? I don't think I would lol. The reason it's WIFOM is because maybe he is trying to make people doubt his scumminess last second and shenanie? I'm locked in but I'll feel a little bad about it if he flips town ): As you can see, he is showing some doubt over DYH flipping scum. That's all fine, nothing to see there, but his reasoning is absolutely insane. tl;dr: - DYH showed up when he got voted - Scum wouldn't bother to turn up because scum!Jealous would not bother As Rels said earlier, this is a piss-poor reason to start doubting a scum-read when a) scum 100% would want to defend themselves so that they...don't get lynched and b) time-zones/ RL commitments can also influence if someone arrives at EOD. That's not a strong enough explanation to make anyone doubt themselves about a read, especially after the case that Jealous made where he concluded 'scum'. The mere act of posting at EOD when you are being voted has jack shit to do with your alignment. Furthermore, he wasn't interested in switching wagons from DYH so I see no logical or emotional motivation for this sudden doubt. Thus I'm concluding that he's full of shit. That post had him stretching so hard for an excuse to distance from the ML that he sprained a muscle. I don't think this makes Jealous scum. If you're scum why just not vote DYH without giving any reason and live happily ever after To make himself look more productive, duh. My last point is really being overlooked here so I'll repeat myself here. His reasoning for doubting DYH's wagon is contrived no matter how you look at it. How would someone posting at EOD be town-indicative and overwhelm the other reasoning that he laid out just a few hours' earlier? How does anyone scum-read DYH with a multitude of reasons and then doubt that based on him turning up? Try and think through that one and tell me how that makes sense, I'd like to see that work of fiction. It makes no sense from a town mindset but by all means counter me with some valid explanations or whatever. I'd prefer Jealous but he ignored this point so I'll take spokespeople if it means people actually acknowledge me here. I should have split up my post or something so people would notice this.
I answered you. @Calix. Not going to look for the post because my laptop is running out of battery and I forgot my charger like a dumbass. I will be on phone later tonight/tomorrow.
Also, I disagree that PLynching Stutters is the absolute best way to go, even though he was my #2 scumread. At this point I believe we should get to the bottom of Xata/Scott/Skynx.
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Both cases have pretty big holes imo, and both Scott and a stutters are doing a decent job of playing town coming towards eod. Overall, I'd have to say the case on Scott is marginally stronger, and I'm surprised Calix is defending him like this. Maybe Calix thinks her trains are always best trains, which I can empathize with. Anyway, I'm voting for what I see not what I presume.
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On October 02 2016 06:41 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2016 06:35 Jealous wrote:
Both cases have pretty big holes imo, and both Scott and a stutters are doing a decent job of playing town coming towards eod. Overall, I'd have to say the case on Scott is marginally stronger, and I'm surprised Calix is defending him like this. Maybe Calix thinks her trains are always best trains, which I can empathize with. Anyway, I'm voting for what I see not what I presume. I am quite disappointed with this... Can you at least elaborate on what the holes in the cases where, and why Scott is stronger in your mind?
Both are reliant on single posts here and there with a lot of what feels like meta/tone read in between. In Scott's case it's the questionable posts relevant to DYH, in Stutters' it's the fact that he was hard town read by a noob scum who is prone to make dumb errors. I find it weird that TT made the case then backed off, too.
@Calix: I'm well aware of your Stutters case and I have had him in my scum list for about as long as you have. That doesn't mean Scott isn't the better vote today. In part I think it will be more illuminating on associations, which can't be said for Stutters.
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On October 02 2016 06:58 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2016 06:50 Jealous wrote:On October 02 2016 06:41 Tictock wrote:On October 02 2016 06:35 Jealous wrote:
Both cases have pretty big holes imo, and both Scott and a stutters are doing a decent job of playing town coming towards eod. Overall, I'd have to say the case on Scott is marginally stronger, and I'm surprised Calix is defending him like this. Maybe Calix thinks her trains are always best trains, which I can empathize with. Anyway, I'm voting for what I see not what I presume. I am quite disappointed with this... Can you at least elaborate on what the holes in the cases where, and why Scott is stronger in your mind? Both are reliant on single posts here and there with a lot of what feels like meta/tone read in between. In Scott's case it's the questionable posts relevant to DYH, in Stutters' it's the fact that he was hard town read by a noob scum who is prone to make dumb errors. I find it weird that TT made the case then backed off, too. @Calix: I'm well aware of your Stutters case and I have had him in my scum list for about as long as you have. That doesn't mean Scott isn't the better vote today. In part I think it will be more illuminating on associations, which can't be said for Stutters. Stutters has been discussed by many players so I disagree on your last point. That's a gross simplification of the cases against Stutters. Do you still scum-read Stutters or has your read changed? Who are your current scum-reads anyway? Is there a better case that you want us to focus on? I'm not sure where you stand given recent events.
I feel like Stutters has been almost universally scum read plus his filter is short af due to afk. Hs associations are not as strong.
I still don't like Stutters but I am starting to think he is just bad!town and not bad=scum. Yet to be seen and I am still okay with him being lynched in principle.
Scum team is one of Scott/Skynx/Xata and potentially betweem Stutters and someone else.
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I am starting to lose faith in this town and it's leadership.
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Last Will:
Hard Town Reads: ptmc, Daneler, Calix.
At least one scum between these: Scott, Skynx, Xata.
My opinion is if Calix doesn't die tonight, there should be a heavy look at her. I could see a world where she is scum hiding under conftown. I hold no such suspicions of ptmc, but Daneler is a possibility also.
Sorry for not being around as much as I'd like, really busy time of the year for people in my profession/position academically.
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Nice
Tictock, I didn't include you in any list because I am kinda on the fence about you. On the one hand, I feel you're townie largely due to tone/us having similar ideas, but I can't put you in the conftown group with ptmc/daneler/Calix.
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On October 03 2016 07:13 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 07:07 Jealous wrote:Nice Tictock, I didn't include you in any list because I am kinda on the fence about you. On the one hand, I feel you're townie largely due to tone/us having similar ideas, but I can't put you in the conftown group with ptmc/daneler/Calix. Ok, so who do you think we should lynch today and why? Also why are you more certain about Dane than me?
We have to resolve the Scott/Xata/Skynx situation first. I'd have to look at their filters again to see which one seems most scummy, but if memory serves it's Xata. I think resolving this triangle will point us to the second scum, at least.
Dane had some really good posts in D2. I will have a lot more time tomorrow to give specific reads that I've been promising. Sorry about that. Just got home today after being away for 2 days and not having a laptop cable.
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On October 04 2016 05:29 Calix wrote:In general, I think I was way too focused on 'looking townie' with my posting and thus I didn't do enough pushing of mafia objectives. Thus I'm concluding that I played terribly. I'll take tips from anyone
Yea, I kinda alluded to this in my coach QT:
"Xata seems null at best to me, Stutters is MIA and formerly scummy, Scott is still pretty firmly town to me. I'm honestly more suspicious of the people who are "firmly" town like Calix and Rels because I feel like they knew they had cancer in their body and amputated it when it was too late (when Luna fucked up) and are still riding off of that + their first good impressions. It's damn hard to find what's scummy about them, it's more the sense of them playing too perfect or too town and being too trusted that's got me paranoid. "
Once Rels was out, I was starting to strongly suspect you, but didn't have enough traction. Today was going to be the day that I try to make a case on you - I had set aside the next 3 hours for this, I come back, and it's over ):
GG everyone, sorry for being MIA and weak so much of the game, IRL is OP. Maybe when life calms down a bit I shall return.
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Finished reading the scum QT, funny how my not doing much of anything helped town a fair amount. Might be a solid strategy for the future when I roll VT.
Or maybe scum was just too paranoid and second-guessing.
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EPT
