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On January 28 2016 09:33 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 03:39 _MexicanAlien wrote:
1. Shapelog
2. PepperMintTea
3. Onegu Curious whether your mafia reads have changed at all since posting? Pepperminttea is in my town pile right now-- how confident are you in this list? I'm surprised that both Shapelog and MexicanAlien have been inactive the past 5-6 hours. Especially given the burst in activity from both in the first day of D1.
Hey darthfoley,
I have sleeping for the last 7 hours or so.
There has been a lot more upheaval in opinions and reads and votes than I expected, so it's going to take me some time to try to analyze these new posts.
From quickly skimming over the last few hours, Shapelog still seems a bit scummy to me, maybe because his almost lack of logic when it comes to countering scumreads against him. And most everyone seems content to defend him. May or may not be a bad thing.
As for PepperMintTea, I am still waiting for an answer to my question. That is, paraphrasing,
Why did you ignore the most likely explanation for Shapelog's nervousness/over posting?
I'm suspicious of PMT because she seems to ask a lot of questions, disappear, refuse to add anything until questions are answered, gives very illogical rebuffs to questions asked of her.
Onegu, I need to do some thinking. I'm not sure about him right now.
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I just want to point out how terrible JesusIncarnate's filter is right now.
1. He talks about how Alur and Tumblewood's reads are similar to his+ Show Spoiler +
i also like alur, there reads are pretty similar to mine.
tumblewood has kind of similar reads to mine
+ Show Spoiler +On January 27 2016 22:17 JesusIncarnate wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 13:16 darthfoley wrote:
I promise i'm not 8 and that my vocabulary is simply exquisite sick meme Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 13:18 Kuragari42 wrote:
This filter thing is amazing.. I wish I had this in my last game.. sick meme x2 (epic sig btw) anyway. darthfoley is kind of chill, def town for me right now. There posts are quite reactionary. Trifel also a bit towny in my books. Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 15:11 Trfel wrote:
Yeah, sorry, I'm not going to give a detailed explanation of my read on PepperMintTea right now because if I'm wrong, that would be a free defense. Which is a pretty stupid thing to do.
I feel that PepperMintTea's reads show critical thinking and an attempt to solve the game, making me think that PepperMintTea is town. I won't elaborate at this time. shit post; town post. Onegu, scummy to me. Posting long essays mean nothing to me. lol people like eden are falling for the simple mafia strat for noobs "I will act stupid and hope people townread me" however i dont agree with their final post in their large manifesto. #368 Shape, scum or not, probably had someone scumreading them, but not anymore. I think the scum took not of the changing reads on shape and quickly either laid off or just changed their reads. okay so to sum this all up. I dont like onegu or shape. folley seems town. Eden is up in the air for me. trfel seems pretty town to me. other people i honestly dont care about.
Alur's reads at the time Jesus made this post:
1) Shapelog = most scummy
2) Slight town read on MexicanAlien
3) Slight scum read on darthfoley
Tumblewood's reads at the time Jesus makes this post:
Town: (none yet)
Leaning Town: Alur, Trfel
Null: PepperMintTea, nooniansong, Onegu
Leaning Scum: darthfoley, _MexicanAlien
Scum: Shapelog
JesusIncarnate's reads at the time he made his post:
Town: darthfoley, Trfel
scum: Onegu, Shapelog
Null: Eden
Okay, so
1. He agrees with both on the Shapelog scum read (which was by far the "safest" scum read at that time from a mafia perspective)
2. He disagrees with both on darthfoley... anyway. darthfoley is kind of chill, def town for me right now. There posts are quite reactionary. ... Isn't reactionary generally used to describe scum play?
3. He agrees with Alur's town read on MexicanAlien; disagrees with Tumblewood's scum read of MexicanAlien
4. Alur barely mentions Onegu, but when he does it seems like it's a slight town read. Tumblewood classifies Onegu as null. JesusIncarnate disagrees with both of them, claiming that he finds Onegu scummy.
Now: does this seem like someone who has similar reads to Alur and Tumblewood? Doesn't look like it to me. In fact, it looks scummier the more I look at it.
Let's not forget this gem later on:
On January 28 2016 04:02 JesusIncarnate wrote:
@Tumblewood
Shapelog is leaning more town now, but im not outright town-reading them. Other than that its the same. I do not feel confident in lynching Onegu however, the people on the vote are particularly shocking. I'll prob do filter posts when i have more time, as right now i can only read thread and type shit.
Okay Shapelog is now town, which is convenient, given that he hasn't provided any reason why his opinion changed (besides perhaps, the town consensus). But, the rest of his reads are the same, i.e. Onegu is the most scummy for him. But then he directly contradicts himself and comes off as wishy-washy regarding the Onegu lynch wagon, saying that the people voting him are shocking: (Trfel, Eden, Noon, Shapelog). This is pretty terrible.
I think JesusIncarnate is mafia
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##Unvote
##Vote: JesusIncarnate
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To be fair to JesusIncarnate, I forgot to mention that both he and Tumblewood TR'd Trfel
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I should also include that the depth of his reasoning overall has been sufficiently comparable to a inflatable pool.
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Hi all, Sorry for being so inactive at the start, I've been real busy with life, and I've had a hell of a rough time catching up on the game, got a major headache trying to figure everything out. I'll try to be far more active from here on out, feel free to question me all you want, and I'll answer as quickly as possible.
Sorry for any weird formatting issues, the lack of direct quotes, and general rambly-ness of my post, I'm writing from a phone and having a hell of a time getting it all done.
READS with explanations (mostly):
+ Show Spoiler +
PepperMintTea
Never played forum, but has played in real-life / online, so at least somewhat experienced.
Points out a lot of flaws in people's arguments, times that they've said things that are weak / make little sense. Constantly asking for more information, where people got certain ideas, and asks hard-hitting questions. PMT is one of my top town reads, either that or very good mafia, and I'm being taken for a ride, but based on their lack of forum experience, I'd say PMT is just good town.
Tumbleweed
looks like this is his first game, or one of his first, went very pro-active early, maybe a bit over-aggressive on the scum calls, but started making more town reads later on. I don't know, comes off as bad town trying too hard, or bad mafia to me, i'm not experienced enough to tell the difference. If I had to give a solid answer, I'd say he's bad town who changed his mind a bit too often in an attempt to get reactions out of people, falling over himself trying to avoid being mis-lynched.
JesusIncarnate
Very few posts (I know, he still has more than I do)
Posts he has made haven't been very constructive at all. He's coming off as extremely arrogant, enough so that it's got to be some sort of act, because there's no way someone's going to say "I am a Mafia Grandmaster", "speak to me with respect, I deserve it, i am above you" unless they're putting it on, and I mean, look at that name.
Only constructive information he's given to town is calling out Eden for supposedly falling for a simple strat.
My read is that jesus is an unhelpful town, who has annoying posts to read- 'sick meme' 'residentsleeper'
Jesus, why are you putting such a big target on your back for someone to attack you? what do you gain?
Alur
Seems like good town to me. He's intent on solving the game, asks questions, answers questions asked of him, Isn't going crazy trying to turn people on one another, or attacking anyone too hard.
He seems to be frustrated at my lack of posting, understandable, I would be too. Sorry about that.
I like Alurs posts, He's towney, he's not obnoxious, he doesn't seem like he's putting on any sort of act. He also posted "Gonna play some dota or cs to relax". You KNOW someone's taking the game seriously when they swap to dota of all games to chill out.
Kuragari
Reationary to other people's posts, hasn't posted much in the way of solving the game, just spoke to other players.
He did say he wouldn't go into reads until later in the first day, but for someone with quite a few posts, not much has been said.
Not enough information on the guy to make a proper judgement. Slightly scummy, not enough to vote on.
darthfoley
Very town, posted a lot of constructive things, good attitude. I'm on a phone so it's hard to quote everything I want to touch on, but my number 1 town spot goes to this guy. He posts a lot and is vocal about his reads, and backs them up with other posts. I think he'll be useful to town later on, and if we have a doctor, you should consider putting this guy on your save list.
nooniansoong
My read is good-town, asks some good questions, spots inconsistencies, doesn't hop on other people's scum reads and back them up, tries to dissect them and point out any flaws, good for getting more information.
Trfel
Scum read, has a whole lot of posts just asking questions without contributing any information, a whole lot of words with not much to say.
Jumped on the voting for tumbleweed bandwagon simply because it's embarrassing the newbies caught tumble, and not Trfel himself? (Am I missing something here?)
My biggest reason for thinking Trfel is scum is #607 where he says he's trying very hard not to direct the thread, then proceeds to direct the hell out of the thread dissecting tumbleweed's filter, this results in tumbleweed being the current lynch target.
Maybe this is a sick town play and we're going to get rid of mafia on the first night, but I think, judging from his experience, Trfel is an experienced mafia player, and is scum trying to get a townie lynched on day 1.
from here on out my posts are going to be shorter, I'm getting a headache going over everything, this is my own fault for being so inactive at the start, there's so much content to wrap my head around.
Onegu
Seems scummy, lots of short very defensive answers, "Big post coming from me" was actually just a bunch of short reactions to other people's posts.
that being said, I disagree with several of his reads, especially Tea being mafia. that being said I do agree with his Trfel read.
I don't think he's scum enough to vote, but definitely enough to keep my eye on.
_MexicanAlien
Comes off as a noob at the start. I don't think he's scum, but he's not being very helpful to town, either. I disagree with his reads.
Eden
Seems town, nice long posts, decent contribution
Shapelog
Heck, man you've posted so much. Chill out a bit, think before you post. A lot of your posts are off-topic and it's not too helpful. I'm reading you as town for now but I'm going to keep a close eye on you from now on.
OKAY SO
My top 3 for each
Scum: Onegu, JesusIncarnate, Tfel
Town: PMT, Darth, Alur
Keep a close eye on: Shape, Tumble, Kuragari
I'm going to refrain from voting for at least a little while, if I even vote at all. + Show Spoiler +we are allowed to abstain from voting, right?
For now, please feel free to AMA, call me out, whatever. I'll be reading the thread a lot for at least the next few hours.
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On January 28 2016 13:22 darthfoley wrote:I just want to point out how terrible JesusIncarnate's filter is right now. ........ 2. He disagrees with both on darthfoley... Show nested quote +anyway. darthfoley is kind of chill, def town for me right now. There posts are quite reactionary. ... Isn't reactionary generally used to describe scum play? ....... I think JesusIncarnate is mafia
My favorite thing about this read is the apparent lack of bias darthfoley shows.
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7. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
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On January 28 2016 14:31 _MexicanAlien wrote:
Whoops, My bad. I'm going to vote on my top scum / useless town read at the moment, I'm open to changing this if people sway my opinion.
##Vote JesusIncarnate
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On January 28 2016 14:23 Ikidomari wrote:Hi all, Sorry for being so inactive at the start, I've been real busy with life, and I've had a hell of a rough time catching up on the game, got a major headache trying to figure everything out. I'll try to be far more active from here on out, feel free to question me all you want, and I'll answer as quickly as possible. Sorry for any weird formatting issues, the lack of direct quotes, and general rambly-ness of my post, I'm writing from a phone and having a hell of a time getting it all done. READS with explanations (mostly): + Show Spoiler +
PepperMintTea
Never played forum, but has played in real-life / online, so at least somewhat experienced.
Points out a lot of flaws in people's arguments, times that they've said things that are weak / make little sense. Constantly asking for more information, where people got certain ideas, and asks hard-hitting questions. PMT is one of my top town reads, either that or very good mafia, and I'm being taken for a ride, but based on their lack of forum experience, I'd say PMT is just good town.
Tumbleweed
looks like this is his first game, or one of his first, went very pro-active early, maybe a bit over-aggressive on the scum calls, but started making more town reads later on. I don't know, comes off as bad town trying too hard, or bad mafia to me, i'm not experienced enough to tell the difference. If I had to give a solid answer, I'd say he's bad town who changed his mind a bit too often in an attempt to get reactions out of people, falling over himself trying to avoid being mis-lynched.
JesusIncarnate
Very few posts (I know, he still has more than I do)
Posts he has made haven't been very constructive at all. He's coming off as extremely arrogant, enough so that it's got to be some sort of act, because there's no way someone's going to say "I am a Mafia Grandmaster", "speak to me with respect, I deserve it, i am above you" unless they're putting it on, and I mean, look at that name.
Only constructive information he's given to town is calling out Eden for supposedly falling for a simple strat.
My read is that jesus is an unhelpful town, who has annoying posts to read- 'sick meme' 'residentsleeper'
Jesus, why are you putting such a big target on your back for someone to attack you? what do you gain?
Alur
Seems like good town to me. He's intent on solving the game, asks questions, answers questions asked of him, Isn't going crazy trying to turn people on one another, or attacking anyone too hard.
He seems to be frustrated at my lack of posting, understandable, I would be too. Sorry about that.
I like Alurs posts, He's towney, he's not obnoxious, he doesn't seem like he's putting on any sort of act. He also posted "Gonna play some dota or cs to relax". You KNOW someone's taking the game seriously when they swap to dota of all games to chill out.
Kuragari
Reationary to other people's posts, hasn't posted much in the way of solving the game, just spoke to other players.
He did say he wouldn't go into reads until later in the first day, but for someone with quite a few posts, not much has been said.
Not enough information on the guy to make a proper judgement. Slightly scummy, not enough to vote on.
darthfoley
Very town, posted a lot of constructive things, good attitude. I'm on a phone so it's hard to quote everything I want to touch on, but my number 1 town spot goes to this guy. He posts a lot and is vocal about his reads, and backs them up with other posts. I think he'll be useful to town later on, and if we have a doctor, you should consider putting this guy on your save list.
nooniansoong
My read is good-town, asks some good questions, spots inconsistencies, doesn't hop on other people's scum reads and back them up, tries to dissect them and point out any flaws, good for getting more information.
Trfel
Scum read, has a whole lot of posts just asking questions without contributing any information, a whole lot of words with not much to say.
Jumped on the voting for tumbleweed bandwagon simply because it's embarrassing the newbies caught tumble, and not Trfel himself? (Am I missing something here?)
My biggest reason for thinking Trfel is scum is #607 where he says he's trying very hard not to direct the thread, then proceeds to direct the hell out of the thread dissecting tumbleweed's filter, this results in tumbleweed being the current lynch target.
Maybe this is a sick town play and we're going to get rid of mafia on the first night, but I think, judging from his experience, Trfel is an experienced mafia player, and is scum trying to get a townie lynched on day 1.
from here on out my posts are going to be shorter, I'm getting a headache going over everything, this is my own fault for being so inactive at the start, there's so much content to wrap my head around.
Onegu
Seems scummy, lots of short very defensive answers, "Big post coming from me" was actually just a bunch of short reactions to other people's posts.
that being said, I disagree with several of his reads, especially Tea being mafia. that being said I do agree with his Trfel read.
I don't think he's scum enough to vote, but definitely enough to keep my eye on.
_MexicanAlien
Comes off as a noob at the start. I don't think he's scum, but he's not being very helpful to town, either. I disagree with his reads.
Eden
Seems town, nice long posts, decent contribution
Shapelog
Heck, man you've posted so much. Chill out a bit, think before you post. A lot of your posts are off-topic and it's not too helpful. I'm reading you as town for now but I'm going to keep a close eye on you from now on.
OKAY SO My top 3 for each Scum: Onegu, JesusIncarnate, Tfel Town: PMT, Darth, Alur Keep a close eye on: Shape, Tumble, Kuragari I'm going to refrain from voting for at least a little while, if I even vote at all. + Show Spoiler +we are allowed to abstain from voting, right? For now, please feel free to AMA, call me out, whatever. I'll be reading the thread a lot for at least the next few hours.
Welcome to the thread! Hope you're getting caught up. I like your post, but I have a question. You mention that Onegu and Trfel are in your scum category. Do you think that they could be on a scum team together? If one flips mafia, will that change your opinion on the other?
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On January 28 2016 10:46 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 10:44 Trfel wrote:
Sure, someone new might believe that. There's nothing wrong with it. Your point? my point is that if you accept that as an acceptable reason to scumread someone, tumbleweed's reads make perfect sense.
Bingo. And not only that, I don't even see how Tumblewood's opinions about Shapelog and darthfoley are inconsistent. He pointed out early that both players made self-references to their not being mafia and had them as two of his top three suspects. His opinions of the two players diverge as the game goes on, which makes sense given that they're saying and doing different things.
I'm biased and open to being talked down, but I read Trfel's case and came away feeling like I'd cornered him on his apparent flip-flop on his read on Tumblewood, and that he forced this case where it wasn't really there to look like he sincerely believed he had something there.
I'm still fine lynching Trfel. Keeping my vote in place.
Also okay with this wagon on Jesus. kush's point on Jesus is okay, darth's emergent case on Jesus is pretty strong for day 1, both of those players are strong town to me, and both players attacked on completely different axes from the other. Would sheep 10/10, will switch vote to push this wagon over the top if Trfel isn't going or some other wagon looks poised to overtake both.
EBWOthreadrefresh: This Ikidomari guy is basically lock scum, we can lynch him too. Stealing my dude Koshi's styling and heuristic for part of this.
PMT is one of my top town reads, either that or very good mafia, and I'm being taken for a ride, but based on their lack of forum experience, I'd say PMT is just good town.
literally "this guy is town, either that or mafia," breaking the tie on an arbitrary factor (alleged lack of forum experience) which has no impact on alignment
Tumbleweed
looks like this is his first game, or one of his first, went very pro-active early, maybe a bit over-aggressive on the scum calls, but started making more town reads later on. I don't know, comes off as bad town trying too hard, or bad mafia to me, i'm not experienced enough to tell the difference. If I had to give a solid answer, I'd say he's bad town who changed his mind a bit too often in an attempt to get reactions out of people, falling over himself trying to avoid being mis-lynched.
again with the "this guy is town, either that or mafia" read, but this time with a dose of newbie johns to excuse himself from not committing to one stance or the other. Everyone go read the stickied analysis by Ver on XXX Mafia and then scroll for the part where he dissects how this one new player does the exact same thing in that game as mafia. You'll see it and you'll read this and thank me.
Posts he has made haven't been very constructive at all. He's coming off as extremely arrogant, enough so that it's got to be some sort of act, because there's no way someone's going to say "I am a Mafia Grandmaster", "speak to me with respect, I deserve it, i am above you" unless they're putting it on, and I mean, look at that name.
Only constructive information he's given to town is calling out Eden for supposedly falling for a simple strat.
My read is that jesus is an unhelpful town, who has annoying posts to read- 'sick meme' 'residentsleeper'
Jesus, why are you putting such a big target on your back for someone to attack you? what do you gain?
how is this constructive Ikidomari? you go on to say that I'm town and Shapelog (the object of the strategy in question) isn't necessarily scum so how is this helping anybody?
and what good is the question to Jesus there anyway? is that going to help you read him? because neither alignment is incentivized to make themselves more prone to being attacked so I'm not sure how this does...
Not enough information on the guy [Kuragari] to make a proper judgement. Slightly scummy, not enough to vote on.
no use to this at all. doesn't explain how Kuragari is particularly scummy, says he doesn't have enough info for proper judgment, throws a scumread out anyway.
Maybe this is a sick town play and we're going to get rid of mafia on the first night, but I think, judging from his experience, Trfel is an experienced mafia player, and is scum trying to get a townie lynched on day 1.
yet another "this guy is town, either that or mafia" read, arbitrarily tiebroken toward Trfel being mafia based on experience.
I don't think he's [Onegu is] scum enough to vote, but definitely enough to keep my eye on.
he at least commits to Onegu being scum, but again with the "suspicious but not enough to vote on" conclusions...
but then he also thinks Trfel is scum? and even says he agrees with Onegu's read on Trfel. How do you have both of them as scum, Ikidomari?
My top 3 for each
Scum: Onegu, JesusIncarnate, Tfel
Town: PMT, Darth, Alur
Keep a close eye on: Shape, Tumble, Kuragari
- so now Jesus became a top 3 scum read after calling Jesus "unhelpful town" in the actual read on Jesus
- he has Onegu as "keep my eye on" but then puts him in scum instead of the literal reads group titled "keep a close eye on" and he doesn't list me and kush/noon as town reads despite calling us these.
^^i bring this up even though it's NAI in and of itself, because these arbitrary designations give him a clean "three town three scum three watch-out" list of reads; too clean to me. It just looks inorganic that he has an even split of reads, that's just not how reads naturally evolve normally. It looks more like a manufactured list to me.
also there's this:
from here on out my posts are going to be shorter, I'm getting a headache going over everything, this is my own fault for being so inactive at the start, there's so much content to wrap my head around.
excuses for not being caught up. this might as well read "disregard what I'm saying and ignore my reads," he's literally giving us multiple reasons (inactivity/falling behind, struggling to read the thread thoroughly) for discrediting his reads. what townie does this? if you just don't have anything to add then you don't post anything or post what you do have to add (strong town reads if nothing else).
newbie scum do this all the time, they post a large post of reads that looks involved and invested in the game, but then seed all kinds of backdoors to escape committing to those reads with various excuses and waffling in the reads themselves. this is basically a portrait of what new scum looks like
##UNVOTE
##VOTE: Ikidomari
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On January 28 2016 14:35 Ikidomari wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 14:31 _MexicanAlien wrote:7. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain. Whoops, My bad. I'm going to vote on my top scum / useless town read at the moment, I'm open to changing this if people sway my opinion. ##Vote JesusIncarnate
oh my goodness it's actual literal magic christmasland. is it really this easy?
lock for scum
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like he literal actually called Trfel actual scum and Jesus town (unhelpful town but irrelevant here, called him town)
then when the wagons are showing up to be Trfel (actual scum) or Jesus (unhelpful town)
drops a vote to push the wagon on his town read ahead of his scum read
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@Ikidomari: That was not the reasoning behind my changes of opinion. I read too much into the early, early posts and found myself having to backtrack to have opinions that made sense later in the game.
I agree for the most part on your other reads, but I'm not quite following what you said on Trfel; it seems like you're saying he both jumped on and started the lynch bandwagon. Could you clarify?
##Vote JesusIncarnate unless I see something that convinces me he's town.
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On January 28 2016 03:23 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 03:18 _MexicanAlien wrote:
Could everyone, please, in their next post, even if they have done it already, simply state your top three mafia suspects?
Only if you are willing. I just want motives to be clearer.
Top three suspects in order.
If you want to include reasoning feel free.
Thank you 1. Shapelog 2. Trfel 3. Onegu I need to log off for now, see you all in a couple hours.
Tumble I'd like to know if these are still your scum reads? If they've changed, I want to know why. Also, you have both Trfel and Onegu in your scum pile. They've been pretty accusatory against each other; same question I posed to Aussie friend: do you believe they could be on the same team? If one flips scum, does it change your opinion on the other?
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everyone stop trying to lynch the bait and lynch the mafia with me instead
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My read is that jesus is an unhelpful town, who has annoying posts to read- 'sick meme' 'residentsleeper'
Maybe this is a sick town play and we're going to get rid of mafia on the first night, but I think, judging from his experience, Trfel is an experienced mafia player, and is scum trying to get a townie lynched on day 1.
Whoops, My bad. I'm going to vote on my top scum / useless town read at the moment, I'm open to changing this if people sway my opinion.
##Vote JesusIncarnate
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After reading darthfoley's filter, I have to say that he is my strongest TR. I'm not going to quote him because I think the majority of his posting was designed to get people to explain themselves or expose scumplay, and it would be counterproductive to quote his entire filter.
I'd also like to point out that while darthfoley has changed his vote a couple times, he continues to clarify his reads and doesn't contradict himself.
If he's mafia, he's extremely good and may God save my neck.
darthfoley is Vanilla Townie
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God damn it Eden. That post from Ikidomari has so many back doors on it now that I've reread it.
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EPT
