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On January 23 2016 09:14 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 09:12 Rels wrote:
Damdred where the fuck are you
Don't tell me you only came for deadline to try to defend Vivax and now you're gone
I want your input on TT Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 09:12 Palmar wrote:
also I want to point out how fucking right I was about vivax arguing with the organizational effort. Wasn't that the part of my case Damdred called NAI?
On January 23 2016 07:57 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 07:53 disformation wrote:On January 23 2016 07:51 Damdred wrote:
I don't have much of an opinion honestly but what is the case on vivax? On January 23 2016 01:59 disformation wrote:Vivax recapOn January 20 2016 00:55 Vivax wrote:
Picking 1 1, obviously a lie.
Obviously the truth.
Pretty much sums up why this shitty number claiming strat won't do jack. 1. Gets angry when town starts to organize flowers and stuff. On January 20 2016 20:28 Vivax wrote:
8 mafia vs 14 town, any player in here has a 36 % chance of being mafia. Every third player posting something is statistically mafia.
We might as well surrender to RNG instead of trying to argue about lynches knowing that a shitton of people is lying about them.
The only question in this game is which mafia team wins. As such I don't plan on pouring any effort going beyond half assed in this game. 2. "I don't care about this crap, let us RNG the lynch. I won't even put effort into this game." On January 20 2016 22:39 Vivax wrote:
Rels is probably the towniest fucker in here right now.
[...] On January 23 2016 01:15 Vivax wrote:
Disformation is mafia, rels is mafia 3. Added some bold here. Really want to hear him explain this. On January 21 2016 19:33 Vivax wrote:
I got quite the pro town role.
Breakfast time :> On January 21 2016 19:46 Vivax wrote:
Koshi is there anyone in this game you really want dead. On January 21 2016 19:47 Vivax wrote:
More of a rhetorical question 4. "Hi I am here, but I ain't gonna do flowers." Now he throws out a bunch of reads, but can't be flowered to explain like 2/3rds of them? And claims a like "give me 1 more day, plx" role? Think I am still pretty happy with where my vote is atm. One and two aren't alignment indicative Three is interesting and worth exploring but wouldn't be to strong to lynch someone on as it was quite a gap between the two incidents. Four isn't exactly alignment indicative of Vivax, in fact it might be indicative more of a town vivax than scum.
Yes, it was.
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On January 23 2016 09:27 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 09:23 The Shining wrote:
Damdred Onegu Vayne GB off wagon.
Can you 4 please explain why? Even though there's two scum factions, it's still pretty likely at least one here is scum. Remember my wisdom about how mafia fight lynches? Another wisdom is that mafia tend to stay on wagons they're not pushing even if they're lone rangers on it. Were all these on the same wagon, or on some random shitty wagon?
Onegu (2): Koshi, Vivax, VayneAuthority
GlowingBear (1): ObiWanShinobi, Damdred
geript (1): Keirathi, Onegu
sicklucker (1): GlowingBear
More the random variety of wagon.
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On January 23 2016 10:05 Fecalfeast wrote:
anyone here play dwarf fortress?
Have played a bit in the past, but I always end up flooding my fortress when attempting to get an underground well going.
On January 23 2016 11:22 CopCake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 11:18 sicklucker wrote:
i know its a terrible reaction test dont shoot me. why did i reaction test someone that can shoot me? I can shot you at any given moment babe. ![[image loading]](https://49.media.tumblr.com/5c27ce144693fbb9032c31e5697b98ef/tumblr_myxip52fCm1r3rdh2o1_r1_500.gif)
![[image loading]](http://img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire4/12272007/8/b/1/0/8b104806a50420_full.jpg)
Can fully recommend watching.
On January 23 2016 11:26 sicklucker wrote:
Disinfo should probably be on my list but I have never tried to read his alignment and dont want to start now
"I might want to consider shooting this guy, despite not even trying to figure out his alignment."
Uh, okay? Thanks I guess?
On January 24 2016 00:40 GlowingBear wrote:
Which role is Koshi?
Don't think someone answered yet: Koshi is Werner von Braun (you know the guy with the nukes).
On January 24 2016 01:51 CopCake wrote:
Palmar is awesome, his list of how to deal with Kita draw a huge smile on my face.
Yeah, same reaction.
Still not too convinced about the first point against Kita, but I'll have to review the other points against him and read kita's response again after that.
Still having a hard time figuring out TT btw...
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 24 2016 00:45 Palmar wrote:The case against Kitaman27 Remember Palmar from Outlaw mafia? Man that guy was a dick. He shot all the people who were right and argued his way out of a lynch with the rest. This game the guy who has the potential to do this is Kitaman. He's a very good player who would basically always be considered top tier if he played more. He is especially good at town. What all the angry people (rayn, koshi etc) who think town played terribly in Outlaw fail to realize, is that it's their own damn fault for not leaving a rock-solid conclusive case behind that I couldn't argue against. I'm not going to make their mistake, this case will be a comprehensive reasoning Kitaman27 is mafia.
Part 1: Kita's original scumread on Vivax This is both the best part about the case, and also the most difficult one to understand. I'll try to use small words for the benefit of certain people. Vivax posted the post that immediately revealed him as mafia (well, not immediately, but it became clear he didn't follow up at all on it. This is the particular post: Show nested quote +On January 20 2016 00:55 Vivax wrote:
Picking 1 1, obviously a lie.
Obviously the truth.
Pretty much sums up why this shitty number claiming strat won't do jack. After this, Kita had a "discussion" with Vivax Show nested quote +On January 20 2016 00:58 kitaman27 wrote:
Well based on the pick order, you basically have an idea of what every single player picked by day one. Essentially claiming the numbers reduces the odds of overlap, while mafia knows what each other is picking so they can avoid it already. Like a few games ago, like 6 players chose [9] or something stupid like that. What's the disadvantage Vivax? Vivax responded to this with: Show nested quote +On January 20 2016 01:26 Vivax wrote:On January 20 2016 00:58 kitaman27 wrote:
Well based on the pick order, you basically have an idea of what every single player picked by day one. Essentially claiming the numbers reduces the odds of overlap, while mafia knows what each other is picking so they can avoid it already. Like a few games ago, like 6 players chose [9] or something stupid like that. What's the disadvantage Vivax? You dont know if its truthful what anyone claims and if it is then mafia can pretty much pick the sweet numbers to at least have 1 of their members pick first, I think. So this was the extent of their conversation and posts about each other until I joined the thread about 2 or 3 hours later. The important part is that Vivax wouldn't go on to post anything more for a long time. I basically saw Vivax's post and immediately called him out as mafia, then Kitaman decided to agree with me, without having shown no inclination towards calling Vivax mafia in the previous interaction. Show nested quote +On January 20 2016 03:36 kitaman27 wrote:On January 20 2016 03:15 Palmar wrote:On January 20 2016 00:55 Vivax wrote:
Picking 1 1, obviously a lie.
Obviously the truth.
Pretty much sums up why this shitty number claiming strat won't do jack. Vivax is mafia. Not simply because he refuses to cooperate but because he refuses to cooperate AND that is everything he brings to the table. Vivax was the first person that I picked out as mafia too. Shows up to complain about something, but doesn't do anything about it. The point is that what was originally just a reason to put a pretty mild question on Vivax became a pretty strong scumread without Vivax doing anything in the meantime. And the first sentence in Kita's post is the important one. He CLAIMS that he had already picked out Vivax as mafia, so why didn't he do anything about it???It's also important to notice that if you go to Kita's filter you can see that while he consistently called Vivax mafia he was never actively trying to lynch him. He wasn't yelling for the lynch in the same way I do. There is no way a town Kita cares so little about the lynch.
Part 2: Kita's case on me Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 08:40 kitaman27 wrote:On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
The reason is quite simple. If we assign everyone roles, mafia can just freely pick a role that wasn't assigned to them. The entire point of having ffa/check players is for them to take roles that SHOULD have been taken before them to PROVE the players before them actually took the roles they were meant to take. It's a failsafe. Let me show you why this is so, so, so wrong. Palmar's plan: Koshi, damdred, and kitaman27 are free for all picks that are instructed to pick a role above them in the list to PROVE the players above us actually take a role that they want. Result: Koshi, damdred, and kitaman27 wind up as Mysterious challengers because they were idiotic enough to pick a role that was already selected. BUT AT LEAST WE VERIFIED 3 PICKS, RIGHT GUYS? Kita's plan: Koshi picks his assigned power role damdred picks his assigned power role kita picks his assigned power role Result: Between those three roles we now have 1x watcher 2x tracker 2x protection 1x nuke 1x secondary lynch 1x parity cop 1x alignment cop So what's more important, all those abilities or verifying that 3 people above us took the roles they promised (which has no alignment indicative information. Even if a player takes their assigned role, they still could be mafia) I have already explained why having the checks is important and far better. Also I want everyone to understand that I put shady, experienced players on the check roles because I wanted to fucking deny them roles. I wanted them to just become MC at random. But more importantly, even if he doesn't agree with me, it doesn't make me mafia. Nothing he says in the first part of the case makes me mafia. Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 08:40 kitaman27 wrote:On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
If we have no failssafes, mafia can just pick whatever the fuck they want. Essentially, my plan is pointless. No they really can't. For a mafia player to "pick whatever they want", that means that the role can't already have been chosen by another player. If they pick above another player, then they are denying the player below, that player claims and we have a combination of role checks, the kitaman27 role, and trackers to figure out who it was. So that leaves the list of roles that go unpicked. They're almost all trash: Hero - Picked by VA anyways Puppeteer - Useless for mafia Dimensional Lemming - Useless for mafia Speaker for the Dead - Useless for mafia Artanis - Useless for mafia GreYMisT - Useless for mafia because it only delays things for 12 hours. Janitor - 1 shot use and can't be used on the lynch. Not a high priority Copycat - Not a priority Tommy the Fireman - Okay mafia role, but not a Psy - If he uses his ability, it confirms he is in the game and we get him by role check, track or kitaman27 Alchemist - A delayed 1 shot vig? meh I suppose it is useful for mafia, but not a huge priority pick to justify breaking the plan Yu Narukami - Kinda useful role, but I suggested that it be picked in my post so it wouldn't be open Knight Artorias - Strong mafia role Essentially there is one mafia role that is worth grabbing and we have sicklucker's honest check on that one. Furthermore, since all role selections are basically public, you are responsible for your actions. Say the tracker decides that they are going to "undermine" your plan and grab a different role. They still gotta say who they visited each night, their tracker results etc. So essentially lie each night about their action. It's not worth the mafia risk. On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
I basically can't be arsed arguing this, I am out of energy trying to get people to be not stupid.
Kita is very likely mafia because he's not dumb enough to think his version is an actual improvement. On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
Kita's additions completely undermine my plan. Again a bunch of plan talk, none of which makes me mafia. Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 08:40 kitaman27 wrote:
The fact that you're trying to take my clearly superior plan and justify it as a reason that I'm mafia is preposterous. Earlier in the game you mentioned that town's objective is to maximize the amount of blue roles we get. Yet here you are pushing a plan where there players are doing "honest checks". When I edit your plan to maximize the blue roles it makes me scum? That's laughable.
Palmar is mafia
So finally, here is the part that actually "makes me mafia". Notice how he wrote a massive case and nothing in it was actually about me being mafia. It was just a giant argument that his clearly shitty plan was somehow better than mine because it gave scummy people roles. My plan focused exactly on getting town as many blue roles as possible  I just didn't want scum to get them too! There is literally no way kita believes that me being convinced that my plan is better like this somehow means I'm mafia. It's entirely possible he's bad and genuinely (irrelevant of his alignment) thinks that his plan is better, but there is no way he believes it makes me mafia. It was a giant ass fake case based on nothing. Literally flinging shit to see if it sticks. Also, just like the Vivax read, I don't feel like he made a strong push to actually lynch me. In fact I don't think Kita has passionately pushed anyone this game. It's just some shitty lists of 3-5 people thrown together as maybe mafia.
Part 3: Various other things - Tonally it feels like Kitaman is structured but not really invested
- His latest "list of various scummy people". Is once again just a shitty list with no conclusion or no motivation to kill someone specific. Just a "these people are maybe mafia".
- For a long time it felt like his filter was relatively short. It's up to maybe 7 pages now, but it was 5 pages back on day 1. Again, the whole "not invested" thing.
- He didn't at all help me strongarm the lynch onto Vivax. This doesn't mean they have to be scumbuddies, it just once more means that despite a strong, consistent scumread of his being lynched, he barely cared. He kept randomly calling Vivax mafia while not really trying to do anything about it
Part 4: Suggestions on how to deal with Kita in the future if I'm dead - Shoot him
- If he tries to argue with you, just copy paste this case repeatedly instead of responding to him
- Vote him
- Reply to all his posts by posting youtube videos of Donald Trump speeches
- Never listen to him
- Don't believe "checks" on him. He's mafia.
- Insult him using creative British words like "Wazzock" and "Buffoon".
- Shoot him again
I hope you all enjoyed my case on Kitaman27. He is always mafia this game no matter what he says. If this game ends and he's still alive there will be killings. Good Luck!
Well, not sure I like the introduction. Sounds a bit like a fear read... but then again: after remembering that kita was JudgeJudy I can agree that he is pretty damn good. xD
Part 1
Hmm... still not sure about this one. Yes, the claim is a bit odd, but I don't think it is as scum indicating as you make it out to be. Looked through his filter with a strg+f on vivax and he was digging up stuff on Vivax like this post:
On January 22 2016 06:01 kitaman27 wrote:Re-read through Vivax's pretty short filter again though I don't have much to add. So far it seems pretty similar to the afk scum vivax from TL Mafia LXXIII: The Nutcracker. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/499399-tl-mafia-lxxiii-the-nutcracker?user=VivaxI know I was pretty deadset on him being mafia in the recent resistance game until he suddenly turned on the activity so maybe he will show us something in the next 24 hours. If he continues to ignore the game, then I'd probably lynch him.
Part 2
At the time I thought this is probably town on town having a different opinion about which plan is better, especially since kitaman's suggestions sounded reasonable to me. Reading his case on you again, it looks pretty bad.
Part 3
Well, I don't know how invested a town!kitaman is, so not sure about most of these points.
Can agree that his recent list had a lack of wow, impact or strong conclusions.
Soo... overall these things start to add up. Like taken alone I don't think these points are like slamdunk scum, but considering that kitaman27 is apparently pretty damn good at this game, we probably won't get much slamdunk from him, should he indeed be scum.
Looking at his answers now, but I think at least a scum lean is warranted and I will consider voting him tomorrow.
(and/or use other measures you recommend in Part 4  )
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On January 24 2016 02:49 disformation wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 24 2016 00:45 Palmar wrote:The case against Kitaman27 Remember Palmar from Outlaw mafia? Man that guy was a dick. He shot all the people who were right and argued his way out of a lynch with the rest. This game the guy who has the potential to do this is Kitaman. He's a very good player who would basically always be considered top tier if he played more. He is especially good at town. What all the angry people (rayn, koshi etc) who think town played terribly in Outlaw fail to realize, is that it's their own damn fault for not leaving a rock-solid conclusive case behind that I couldn't argue against. I'm not going to make their mistake, this case will be a comprehensive reasoning Kitaman27 is mafia.
Part 1: Kita's original scumread on Vivax This is both the best part about the case, and also the most difficult one to understand. I'll try to use small words for the benefit of certain people. Vivax posted the post that immediately revealed him as mafia (well, not immediately, but it became clear he didn't follow up at all on it. This is the particular post: Show nested quote +On January 20 2016 00:55 Vivax wrote:
Picking 1 1, obviously a lie.
Obviously the truth.
Pretty much sums up why this shitty number claiming strat won't do jack. After this, Kita had a "discussion" with Vivax Show nested quote +On January 20 2016 00:58 kitaman27 wrote:
Well based on the pick order, you basically have an idea of what every single player picked by day one. Essentially claiming the numbers reduces the odds of overlap, while mafia knows what each other is picking so they can avoid it already. Like a few games ago, like 6 players chose [9] or something stupid like that. What's the disadvantage Vivax? Vivax responded to this with: Show nested quote +On January 20 2016 01:26 Vivax wrote:On January 20 2016 00:58 kitaman27 wrote:
Well based on the pick order, you basically have an idea of what every single player picked by day one. Essentially claiming the numbers reduces the odds of overlap, while mafia knows what each other is picking so they can avoid it already. Like a few games ago, like 6 players chose [9] or something stupid like that. What's the disadvantage Vivax? You dont know if its truthful what anyone claims and if it is then mafia can pretty much pick the sweet numbers to at least have 1 of their members pick first, I think. So this was the extent of their conversation and posts about each other until I joined the thread about 2 or 3 hours later. The important part is that Vivax wouldn't go on to post anything more for a long time. I basically saw Vivax's post and immediately called him out as mafia, then Kitaman decided to agree with me, without having shown no inclination towards calling Vivax mafia in the previous interaction. Show nested quote +On January 20 2016 03:36 kitaman27 wrote:On January 20 2016 03:15 Palmar wrote:On January 20 2016 00:55 Vivax wrote:
Picking 1 1, obviously a lie.
Obviously the truth.
Pretty much sums up why this shitty number claiming strat won't do jack. Vivax is mafia. Not simply because he refuses to cooperate but because he refuses to cooperate AND that is everything he brings to the table. Vivax was the first person that I picked out as mafia too. Shows up to complain about something, but doesn't do anything about it. The point is that what was originally just a reason to put a pretty mild question on Vivax became a pretty strong scumread without Vivax doing anything in the meantime. And the first sentence in Kita's post is the important one. He CLAIMS that he had already picked out Vivax as mafia, so why didn't he do anything about it???It's also important to notice that if you go to Kita's filter you can see that while he consistently called Vivax mafia he was never actively trying to lynch him. He wasn't yelling for the lynch in the same way I do. There is no way a town Kita cares so little about the lynch.
Part 2: Kita's case on me Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 08:40 kitaman27 wrote:On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
The reason is quite simple. If we assign everyone roles, mafia can just freely pick a role that wasn't assigned to them. The entire point of having ffa/check players is for them to take roles that SHOULD have been taken before them to PROVE the players before them actually took the roles they were meant to take. It's a failsafe. Let me show you why this is so, so, so wrong. Palmar's plan: Koshi, damdred, and kitaman27 are free for all picks that are instructed to pick a role above them in the list to PROVE the players above us actually take a role that they want. Result: Koshi, damdred, and kitaman27 wind up as Mysterious challengers because they were idiotic enough to pick a role that was already selected. BUT AT LEAST WE VERIFIED 3 PICKS, RIGHT GUYS? Kita's plan: Koshi picks his assigned power role damdred picks his assigned power role kita picks his assigned power role Result: Between those three roles we now have 1x watcher 2x tracker 2x protection 1x nuke 1x secondary lynch 1x parity cop 1x alignment cop So what's more important, all those abilities or verifying that 3 people above us took the roles they promised (which has no alignment indicative information. Even if a player takes their assigned role, they still could be mafia) I have already explained why having the checks is important and far better. Also I want everyone to understand that I put shady, experienced players on the check roles because I wanted to fucking deny them roles. I wanted them to just become MC at random. But more importantly, even if he doesn't agree with me, it doesn't make me mafia. Nothing he says in the first part of the case makes me mafia. Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 08:40 kitaman27 wrote:On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
If we have no failssafes, mafia can just pick whatever the fuck they want. Essentially, my plan is pointless. No they really can't. For a mafia player to "pick whatever they want", that means that the role can't already have been chosen by another player. If they pick above another player, then they are denying the player below, that player claims and we have a combination of role checks, the kitaman27 role, and trackers to figure out who it was. So that leaves the list of roles that go unpicked. They're almost all trash: Hero - Picked by VA anyways Puppeteer - Useless for mafia Dimensional Lemming - Useless for mafia Speaker for the Dead - Useless for mafia Artanis - Useless for mafia GreYMisT - Useless for mafia because it only delays things for 12 hours. Janitor - 1 shot use and can't be used on the lynch. Not a high priority Copycat - Not a priority Tommy the Fireman - Okay mafia role, but not a Psy - If he uses his ability, it confirms he is in the game and we get him by role check, track or kitaman27 Alchemist - A delayed 1 shot vig? meh I suppose it is useful for mafia, but not a huge priority pick to justify breaking the plan Yu Narukami - Kinda useful role, but I suggested that it be picked in my post so it wouldn't be open Knight Artorias - Strong mafia role Essentially there is one mafia role that is worth grabbing and we have sicklucker's honest check on that one. Furthermore, since all role selections are basically public, you are responsible for your actions. Say the tracker decides that they are going to "undermine" your plan and grab a different role. They still gotta say who they visited each night, their tracker results etc. So essentially lie each night about their action. It's not worth the mafia risk. On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
I basically can't be arsed arguing this, I am out of energy trying to get people to be not stupid.
Kita is very likely mafia because he's not dumb enough to think his version is an actual improvement. On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
Kita's additions completely undermine my plan. Again a bunch of plan talk, none of which makes me mafia. Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 08:40 kitaman27 wrote:
The fact that you're trying to take my clearly superior plan and justify it as a reason that I'm mafia is preposterous. Earlier in the game you mentioned that town's objective is to maximize the amount of blue roles we get. Yet here you are pushing a plan where there players are doing "honest checks". When I edit your plan to maximize the blue roles it makes me scum? That's laughable.
Palmar is mafia
So finally, here is the part that actually "makes me mafia". Notice how he wrote a massive case and nothing in it was actually about me being mafia. It was just a giant argument that his clearly shitty plan was somehow better than mine because it gave scummy people roles. My plan focused exactly on getting town as many blue roles as possible I just didn't want scum to get them too! There is literally no way kita believes that me being convinced that my plan is better like this somehow means I'm mafia. It's entirely possible he's bad and genuinely (irrelevant of his alignment) thinks that his plan is better, but there is no way he believes it makes me mafia. It was a giant ass fake case based on nothing. Literally flinging shit to see if it sticks. Also, just like the Vivax read, I don't feel like he made a strong push to actually lynch me. In fact I don't think Kita has passionately pushed anyone this game. It's just some shitty lists of 3-5 people thrown together as maybe mafia.
Part 3: Various other things - Tonally it feels like Kitaman is structured but not really invested
- His latest "list of various scummy people". Is once again just a shitty list with no conclusion or no motivation to kill someone specific. Just a "these people are maybe mafia".
- For a long time it felt like his filter was relatively short. It's up to maybe 7 pages now, but it was 5 pages back on day 1. Again, the whole "not invested" thing.
- He didn't at all help me strongarm the lynch onto Vivax. This doesn't mean they have to be scumbuddies, it just once more means that despite a strong, consistent scumread of his being lynched, he barely cared. He kept randomly calling Vivax mafia while not really trying to do anything about it
Part 4: Suggestions on how to deal with Kita in the future if I'm dead - Shoot him
- If he tries to argue with you, just copy paste this case repeatedly instead of responding to him
- Vote him
- Reply to all his posts by posting youtube videos of Donald Trump speeches
- Never listen to him
- Don't believe "checks" on him. He's mafia.
- Insult him using creative British words like "Wazzock" and "Buffoon".
- Shoot him again
I hope you all enjoyed my case on Kitaman27. He is always mafia this game no matter what he says. If this game ends and he's still alive there will be killings. Good Luck! Well, not sure I like the introduction. Sounds a bit like a fear read... but then again: after remembering that kita was JudgeJudy I can agree that he is pretty damn good. xD Part 1Hmm... still not sure about this one. Yes, the claim is a bit odd, but I don't think it is as scum indicating as you make it out to be. Looked through his filter with a strg+f on vivax and he was digging up stuff on Vivax like this post: Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 06:01 kitaman27 wrote:Re-read through Vivax's pretty short filter again though I don't have much to add. So far it seems pretty similar to the afk scum vivax from TL Mafia LXXIII: The Nutcracker. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/499399-tl-mafia-lxxiii-the-nutcracker?user=VivaxI know I was pretty deadset on him being mafia in the recent resistance game until he suddenly turned on the activity so maybe he will show us something in the next 24 hours. If he continues to ignore the game, then I'd probably lynch him. Part 2At the time I thought this is probably town on town having a different opinion about which plan is better, especially since kitaman's suggestions sounded reasonable to me. Reading his case on you again, it looks pretty bad. Part 3Well, I don't know how invested a town!kitaman is, so not sure about most of these points. Can agree that his recent list had a lack of wow, impact or strong conclusions.
Soo... overall these things start to add up. Like taken alone I don't think these points are like slamdunk scum, but considering that kitaman27 is apparently pretty damn good at this game, we probably won't get much slamdunk from him, should he indeed be scum. Looking at his answers now, but I think at least a scum lean is warranted and I will consider voting him tomorrow. (and/or use other measures you recommend in Part 4 )
Small updates after reading kitaman's response here:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 24 2016 01:45 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
He CLAIMS that he had already picked out Vivax as mafia, so why didn't he do anything about it??? Posting that I agreed with you was me doing something about it. I had the two post exchange with him in the thread and my very next post in the thread was calling him mafia. It's not like I was jumping on the bandwagon right before the deadline, this was a few hours into the game. Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
It's also important to notice that if you go to Kita's filter you can see that while he consistently called Vivax mafia he was never actively trying to lynch him. He wasn't yelling for the lynch in the same way I do. There is no way a town Kita cares so little about the lynch. - Listed Vivax as my top scum read 3-4 times
- Suggested that he be assigned the bodyguard role instead of the jailkeeper in my plan improvement post
- Was the second player to vote Vivax
- Pointed out the afk comparison to has his scum game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/499399-tl-mafia-lxxiii-the-nutcracker?user=Vivax
- Posted that he was the most likely busdriver pick
- Suggested that Vivax should be lynched, while leaving onegu for a night shot
- Asked for a majority on him with a couple hours to go
But yeah, you know. I didn't care Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
But more importantly, even if he doesn't agree with me, it doesn't make me mafia. Nothing he says in the first part of the case makes me mafia. It was completely irrelevant whose plan was better (even though mine was). The fact that you exaggerated your read on me saying that I was "undermining" your plan and making your plan "useless" was the thing that made me come to the mafia conclusion. Enforced by the fact that ever time I tried to respond to you, you just called me dumb. Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
Also, just like the Vivax read, I don't feel like he made a strong push to actually lynch me. I didn't think you were a good day one lynch. I said that. I'll probably filter dive you later tonight to evaluate whether I still think you're mafia or if I just let you get under my skin during the planning phase. Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
In fact I don't think Kita has passionately pushed anyone this game. It's just some shitty lists of 3-5 people thrown together as maybe mafia. Well we've had almost identical reads most of the game, so pick one or the other. Show nested quote +On January 24 2016 00:45 Palmar wrote:
For a long time it felt like his filter was relatively short. It's up to maybe 7 pages now, but it was 5 pages back on day 1. Again, the whole "not invested" thing. Well considering I average around 3-4 pages a cycle most games, it must mean I'm doubly invested! Phew. Show nested quote +On January 24 2016 00:45 Palmar wrote:
Part 4: Suggestions on how to deal with Kita in the future if I'm dead Personally I prefer a funny gif or pop culture reference. Something like this would do. ![[image loading]](https://media4.giphy.com/media/8mMrUPBFikM8M/200_s.gif) Anyways, I'm just going to keep on trucking. One down, seven to go.
I like his response to Part 1 and agree that filter length is not a really good metric to scum hunt.
Rest looks kinda meh to me.
So overall I think I am settling for a scum lean on kitaman27 for now and am looking forward to see what he will bring to the table later.
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On January 24 2016 02:56 kitaman27 wrote:
lol
Part 1: "Not sure about that"
Part 2: "Thought it was town initially, but now randomly isn't"
Part 3: "Don't know if that applies"
Conclusion: Yep probably scum
Right on man.
You sure you have read what I wrote?
Part 1: Yeah, having a bit of a hard time with that one, despite Palmar using small words. Also your defense of this part is quite good.
Part 2: It is called re-evaluation. You know, sometimes you go back to stuff and see it in a different light, or notice that you haven't paid that much attention to it when it first happened.
Part 3: There are parts that don't apply and parts that apply. Your filter length is not very AI for me. Your recent list being pretty meh is.
And yeah the conclusion is influenced by the fact that I am pretty suspicious of you now and I have problems justifying a TR on you because of that.
But as I said it is not a slamdunk scum read like vivax was.
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On January 24 2016 04:49 Koshi wrote:
We can speak during resolution right?
Hm. I was assuming no, but the OP doesn't really clarify.
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On January 24 2016 05:45 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2016 02:17 disformation wrote:On January 23 2016 10:05 Fecalfeast wrote:
anyone here play dwarf fortress? Have played a bit in the past, but I always end up flooding my fortress when attempting to get an underground well going. On January 23 2016 11:22 CopCake wrote:On January 23 2016 11:18 sicklucker wrote:
i know its a terrible reaction test dont shoot me. why did i reaction test someone that can shoot me? I can shot you at any given moment babe. Can fully recommend watching. On January 23 2016 11:26 sicklucker wrote:
Disinfo should probably be on my list but I have never tried to read his alignment and dont want to start now "I might want to consider shooting this guy, despite not even trying to figure out his alignment." Uh, okay? Thanks I guess? On January 24 2016 00:40 GlowingBear wrote:
Which role is Koshi? Don't think someone answered yet: Koshi is Werner von Braun (you know the guy with the nukes). On January 24 2016 01:51 CopCake wrote:
Palmar is awesome, his list of how to deal with Kita draw a huge smile on my face. Yeah, same reaction. Still not too convinced about the first point against Kita, but I'll have to review the other points against him and read kita's response again after that. Still having a hard time figuring out TT btw... If you read my post my list it was not even people I scum read. just players that can probably hide there roles and be the bus driver...
Oh, that actually makes sense. You should have said so in the first place. All I see is a list of ppl you were considering to shoot and I am not in the business of reading other peoples minds.
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RIP Holmes. 
On January 24 2016 09:06 Fecalfeast wrote:
Oh sorry I had customers/rust issues to deal with
I got a check of "Blazinghand" when I checked OWS and sherlock holmes got "Town-aligned"
Confirming both results.
On January 24 2016 09:10 Fecalfeast wrote:
wait assuming disform isn't lying about sanities, breshke had a red check (Insane gives the opposite check, right?)
Any way to see who he checked, did he breadcrumb it?
Well... Remember:
On January 24 2016 07:58 kitaman27 wrote:
[...]
I USED MY DT CHECK LAST NIGHT SO THE FRAME IS IN EFFECT. THIS APPLIES TO ALIGNMENT CHECKS ONLY
Did anyone track Holmes?
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Was about to go to bed, then saw this gem:
On January 24 2016 09:57 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2016 08:57 Palmar wrote:On January 24 2016 08:56 CopCake wrote:
wait
mafia killed that many people and still missed two?
or what does also had town?
ceph shot breshke and died because of it. Actually I'm pretty sure dreamflowers shot doesn't go through if the target was town. So either Ceph targeted someone else or mafia put their own KP on Bre. Also called all 4 of those players town, so good on me with reads thus far. Also apparently someone was a dumbass and wasted RB on me. Hope if was mafia thinkign I am mafia, that would be grand.
On January 24 2016 10:01 Tictock wrote:So koshi RB'd me?
HOW DOES HE KNOW HE WAS ROLEBLOCKED?!
Remember his role?
On January 23 2016 10:01 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 09:53 Damdred wrote:
Actually I think it is probably copcake considering TT is trying to judge reactions before making hasty decisions. Your faith in me is not rewarded. I baned you kus you were gone all phase, came back saying you had no opinions but then spent all your time and energy defending Vivax but had almost no explanation for why GB was a better lynch.
He is blazinghand. Look at that role.
On January 13 2016 05:45 GreYMisT wrote:
Blazinghand (New - TL Mafia Ban List)
You are Blazinghand, The Chosen, Wielder of the Sacred List, and He Who Guides The Newbie. Twice per game during the day phase (ability activates after the end of day), you may recommend that a player be banned. Unfortunately, you took over the banlist in the shadow of the Great GMarshal, He Who Sees All Things And Wields The Mighty Hammer, and your power is not absolute. The player you targeted may choose to either take a 'warning' (and be roleblocked for the following night phase and the following day phase) or 'sitout a game' (that player's vote during the following day phase is not counted). If the player chooses neither (either out of choice or because they are roleblocked) they will be BANNED. A banned player will have their vote stolen and added to your voting power for the following day.
”I, for one, support our new Blazing overlord.” - IGrok
NO NIGHT ACTIONS!
So again, why does he know he was roleblocked?
+ Show Spoiler +
BAM! Six to go!
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On January 24 2016 10:44 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2016 10:40 disformation wrote:Was about to go to bed, then saw this gem: On January 24 2016 09:57 Tictock wrote:On January 24 2016 08:57 Palmar wrote:On January 24 2016 08:56 CopCake wrote:
wait
mafia killed that many people and still missed two?
or what does also had town?
ceph shot breshke and died because of it. Actually I'm pretty sure dreamflowers shot doesn't go through if the target was town. So either Ceph targeted someone else or mafia put their own KP on Bre. Also called all 4 of those players town, so good on me with reads thus far. Also apparently someone was a dumbass and wasted RB on me. Hope if was mafia thinkign I am mafia, that would be grand. On January 24 2016 10:01 Tictock wrote:On January 24 2016 09:08 Keirathi wrote:
I tracked Koshi to Tictock. So koshi RB'd me? HOW DOES HE KNOW HE WAS ROLEBLOCKED?! Remember his role? On January 23 2016 10:01 Tictock wrote:On January 23 2016 09:53 Damdred wrote:
Actually I think it is probably copcake considering TT is trying to judge reactions before making hasty decisions. Your faith in me is not rewarded. I baned you kus you were gone all phase, came back saying you had no opinions but then spent all your time and energy defending Vivax but had almost no explanation for why GB was a better lynch. He is blazinghand. Look at that role. On January 13 2016 05:45 GreYMisT wrote:
Blazinghand (New - TL Mafia Ban List)
You are Blazinghand, The Chosen, Wielder of the Sacred List, and He Who Guides The Newbie. Twice per game during the day phase (ability activates after the end of day), you may recommend that a player be banned. Unfortunately, you took over the banlist in the shadow of the Great GMarshal, He Who Sees All Things And Wields The Mighty Hammer, and your power is not absolute. The player you targeted may choose to either take a 'warning' (and be roleblocked for the following night phase and the following day phase) or 'sitout a game' (that player's vote during the following day phase is not counted). If the player chooses neither (either out of choice or because they are roleblocked) they will be BANNED. A banned player will have their vote stolen and added to your voting power for the following day.
”I, for one, support our new Blazing overlord.” - IGrok NO NIGHT ACTIONS! So again, why does he know he was roleblocked? + Show Spoiler +BAM! Six to go! Someone tracked Koshi to him... Koshi had a RB...
Look at those two posts again:
On January 24 2016 09:57 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2016 08:57 Palmar wrote:On January 24 2016 08:56 CopCake wrote:
wait
mafia killed that many people and still missed two?
or what does also had town?
ceph shot breshke and died because of it. Actually I'm pretty sure dreamflowers shot doesn't go through if the target was town. So either Ceph targeted someone else or mafia put their own KP on Bre. Also called all 4 of those players town, so good on me with reads thus far. Also apparently someone was a dumbass and wasted RB on me. Hope if was mafia thinkign I am mafia, that would be grand.
First he is like: "yo who the flower RBed me?!"
He noticed the track like 4mins later.
On January 24 2016 10:01 Tictock wrote:So koshi RB'd me?
And both happened before Koshi admitted to this 14mins later.
On January 24 2016 10:15 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2016 10:01 Tictock wrote:On January 24 2016 09:08 Keirathi wrote:
I tracked Koshi to Tictock. So koshi RB'd me? true
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On January 24 2016 10:57 Keirathi wrote:
Typically, either all roleblocks are notified regardless of if an action was used or not, or no roleblocks are notified.
The OP doesn't specify, though. Would be a good idea to clarify.
Hm... Fair enough. Sent GM and HtS a PM about this.
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On January 24 2016 11:20 Tictock wrote:
@ Dis
I know kus I got a PM from HtS.
GM confirmed that all roleblocks are notified...
flowers, really thought I had something here. =/
unvoting.
got a bit of stuff to do, will catch up soon.
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On January 25 2016 01:39 Koshi wrote:
Oh 1 more thing.
If town wants to actually hit mafia lynch fefe.
If kita is town: we can trust his redcheck (I don't know if this is true but w.e)
if kita is mafia: we can trust he actually tried to find other mafia and is telling the truth
if kita is a flower: he framed a townie but I don't understand why unless mafia really just wants to kill all townies and go for a co-op victory.
So lynch fefe = thx.
Okay. Should have finally time now.
I was looking into the roles, but there are no other frame abilities in the game, right?
Also don't think kita is a flower.
So voting FF sounds like a good plan.
Though I am not sure if I like Onegu sitting on that confusing busdriver role.
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On January 24 2016 15:27 sicklucker wrote:
how long till it goes boom?
End of day I think.
On January 24 2016 19:46 sicklucker wrote:
Once per game, when you have a half majority of the players voting for you (rounded up) OR you are the final mafia of your team remaining, You may PM the host to unleash the Wrath of the Abyss. If you manage to survive the day, You will gain the ability to immediately leap and kill a player who was voting you when you used Wrath of the Abyss. After using this power, You will return as mafia to all checks, no matter what.
oh you dont get to use your abilty if you die great.
Guys its important we dont give onegu half the votes unless we decide to kill him so no shennanies on this one..
Didn't you pay attention D1? This was one of the reasons to lynch Vivax, since some of us (me included) didn't believe his lemmings claim and thought he had a fair chance to be artorias.
On January 24 2016 20:09 sicklucker wrote:
But did someone confirm your role yet by receiving the ban notification? because that would be good to know
On January 23 2016 09:44 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 09:44 The Shining wrote:On January 23 2016 09:30 Damdred wrote:
Also an action has already been used on me rip You were already notified? I GOT BH'D BAN LIST IS WANTING MY SOUL
That stuff is like 1/3 of damdy's filter...
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On January 25 2016 04:45 Rels wrote:Or don't explain if you want, since you are 100% scum judging by your filter. Only useless stuff, nothing to help solve the game. A thousand questions that could be easily answered, which is making this quote super funny: Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 01:28 GlowingBear wrote:On January 25 2016 01:25 Koshi wrote:
The only way Palmar is mafia is that if he is mafia and EXTREMELY active finding the other mafia team and killing them.
Which is the direct opposite of his play in outlaw in which he was just blending in killing people who scumread him. (which were around 7 people, gj not dead townies for being horrible)
This game he is doing way more legwork and making plays that do not progress his wincon AT ALL if he is in the other mafia team. Because then he would just wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and then do everything in the end to secure win.
Anyway. I have 0 interest in actually thinking about the game. But it amuses me if I see people think and be so wrong. Koshi have you ever thought about reading a setup and thinking about it BEFORE joining a game? I think you're lying about your role too, since you claimed to try taking Moriarty and FF (Moriarty) is 99% scum.
Agreed GB's filter is a steaming pile of flowers.
Not sure I agree on your Damdred TR.
Like 70% of his reads are from Day 0.
Yeah, he gets some cred for being okay with the Doc, but as you said his other activity doesn't look very town to me.
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Hmmm... fair enough @Damdred
really hope your activity picks up after this day phase, though
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On January 25 2016 06:07 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 06:02 Rels wrote:On January 25 2016 06:00 Damdred wrote:
And who's to say cop didn't try to pick something and SL or some on ninjas it or the other scum team got it? OK that is very true. Flower you're right. It's possible she did just that, especially being one of the last pick. It doesn't prove anything.
On January 25 2016 06:14 CopCake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 05:25 Tictock wrote:
I think this is where I am at atm.
Town:
1. disformation
2. kitaman27
3. Rels
7. Damdred
8. Tictock
12. Superbia
15. The Shining
17. sicklucker
22. Palmar
Unsure/mafia
4. Onegu
5. Keirathi
21. CopCake
11. AlotSomuch
6. GlowingBear
13. Koshi
16. Fecalfeast
Not listed in any particular order, and I'm probably wrong on at least a couple people. Wtf is this flower? Dude Kitaman can be flowering mafia outing mafia -________-
Fixed. You are welcome sweethearts.
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On January 25 2016 23:21 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 22:56 Rels wrote:On January 25 2016 22:55 Koshi wrote:
True. but stick to the plan. Pretend you don't know who mafia is. GB is so townie it fucking hurts. Why are we lynching FF BTW ? Because mafia Kita told us to kill other team mafia FF. We as town do everything our mafia overlords tell us.
I think you missed the point of Rels post here. :p
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On January 25 2016 23:23 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 23:22 disformation wrote:On January 25 2016 23:21 Koshi wrote:On January 25 2016 22:56 Rels wrote:On January 25 2016 22:55 Koshi wrote:
True. but stick to the plan. Pretend you don't know who mafia is. GB is so townie it fucking hurts. Why are we lynching FF BTW ? Because mafia Kita told us to kill other team mafia FF. We as town do everything our mafia overlords tell us. I think you missed the point of Rels post here. :p Or maybe YOU missed his point (=
On January 25 2016 22:56 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 22:55 Koshi wrote:
True. but stick to the plan. Pretend you don't know who mafia is. GB is so townie it fucking hurts . Why are we lynching FF BTW ?
Nah, pretty sure I got the point.
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EPT
