The rules for this game are drawn from BH's model OP here: (link). Read them.
Supplemental Rules
In addition to the rules outlined in the Model OP, there are a couple changes for this game.
1. Night Length: Nights will last 24 hours, and you may speak at night. 2. Day Length: Each day lasts 48 hours. 3. Lynch Type: At the end of the day, the player with the most votes on him or her is lynched. In the event of a tie, the person who was most recently ahead in votes is lynched. Voting is done in the voting thread: -soon- 4. Activity: It is required you make at least 2 posts per day+night cycle (72 hours), and ALSO meet the arbitrary activity requirement that exists entirely in my mind. Voting is mandatory. 5. Deadline: The Lynch Deadline will be at 00:00 GMT (+00:00), 6. Behavior: I will not be strict on behavior, but I will always try to warn you if you cross the line.
Credits: Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer. Special thanks to myself for going over this setup with me, and to myself, on the balance approval team, for testing this setup for balance. Also thanks to Probulous since I stole this OP from him and modified it to my nefarious needs. Also also thanks to Palmar for helping me with other versions of this setup.
If you have not read all the rules, go and do so. I might give you candy.
I am open to questions any time. If something doesn't make sense, please ask.
Potential setups One of these setups will be chosen at random at the start of the game. A) Cop land. Town - 1 Vigilante, 1 Cop Mafia - 1 Roleblocker, and in the first 24 hours of the game, Mafia may choose any player in the game. If that player is town, the cop will check them as mafia. If that player is mafia, the cop checks them as town. The alignment change is not revealed upon death.
B) Can't shoot from jail, bro. Town - 1 Vigilante, 1 Jailkeeper Mafia - 1 Roleblocker, Rolecop
C) How many MLes until LYLO? Town - 1 Vigilante, 1 Veteran Mafia - 1 Roleblocker, roleblocking the vigilante when the vigilante shoots means the vigilante loses their shot.
Order of night actions: Mafia RB-->Town JK-->Mafia RC-->Town Cop-->Mafia KP-->Vigilante KP
This is a 13 player Normal game. There will be 3 mafia-aligned players and 10 town-aligned players. There will be no alignment changing mechanics. Role and Alignment will be revealed on all flips. Mafia has 1 KP which is delivered. If there is only one mafia player left, the KP is factional. People are not notified of anything unless required.
Town
Vanilla Town:You are a VT. Find and destroy the mafia.
1-shot Vigilante:Once per game, at night, you can fire a bullet to deal 1 kp to a target. If you are roleblocked (unless setup C is in effect), or your target dies before you can shoot him, you get your bullet back.
Jailkeeper:Each night, you can jail a person, which roleblocks them and protects from one KP. You may not jail yourself. If you jail one town player two nights in a row and he doesn't get shot on either night, that player dies in your jail cell.
Veteran:You have an extra night life. If you are RBed, that night life is suppressed during the RB.
Cop:Each night, you may target a player and learn their alignment.
Town Win Condition - The town wins when there are no mafia left in the game or nothing can prevent that from happening.
Mafia
Mafia Win Condition: The mafia wins when they outnumber or equal the remaining townies or nothing can prevent that from happening. Each night, mafia must use 1 kp. KP is factional.
Mafia Goon:You are a goon with no powers.
Mafia Roleblocker: You are a roleblocker. Each night, you may target a player and roleblock them.
Mafia Rolecop: You are a Rolecop. Each night, you may target a player and learn their role.
pre-game notification: i have a broken wrist so my typing speed is greatly diminished atm which drops my activity by a notable amount. if that's a problem for rayn or the hosts you can feel free to sub me.
On January 08 2016 12:42 ritoky wrote: pre-game notification: i have a broken wrist so my typing speed is greatly diminished atm which drops my activity by a notable amount. if that's a problem for rayn or the hosts you can feel free to sub me.
no it's not a problem. You still post and vote. Usually more thinking - less posting results in more quality play tbh.
Updated the roles and setups! Make sure to give them a look before the game starts since it's pretty different from most games . Tried to make it as skill-based as possible.
On January 08 2016 12:42 ritoky wrote: pre-game notification: i have a broken wrist so my typing speed is greatly diminished atm which drops my activity by a notable amount. if that's a problem for rayn or the hosts you can feel free to sub me.
no it's not a problem. You still post and vote. Usually more thinking - less posting results in more quality play tbh.
No no, maximizing your post count is where it's at
On January 08 2016 12:42 ritoky wrote: pre-game notification: i have a broken wrist so my typing speed is greatly diminished atm which drops my activity by a notable amount. if that's a problem for rayn or the hosts you can feel free to sub me.
no it's not a problem. You still post and vote. Usually more thinking - less posting results in more quality play tbh.
On January 12 2016 01:10 VisceraEyes wrote: Also Kelsier is your name from the Mistborn series? I just started last week and I'm just about to the third one. SOLID!
On January 12 2016 01:10 VisceraEyes wrote: Also Kelsier is your name from the Mistborn series? I just started last week and I'm just about to the third one. SOLID!
I just read it for the first time 2-3 months ago. It's quite good, isn't it!?
On January 12 2016 01:10 VisceraEyes wrote: Also Kelsier is your name from the Mistborn series? I just started last week and I'm just about to the third one. SOLID!
Oh snap. I didn't even notice and I really liked those books a lot. Oo
You guys are so far behind I have already read the second book of the next set of mistborn books and have the 3rd preordered when it comes out on the 26th of this month...
On January 12 2016 02:08 Onegu wrote: You guys are so far behind I have already read the second book of the next set of mistborn books and have the 3rd preordered when it comes out on the 26th of this month...
Oh snap, only read the original trilogy. Noted for the next time I order books.
On January 12 2016 02:08 Onegu wrote: You guys are so far behind I have already read the second book of the next set of mistborn books and have the 3rd preordered when it comes out on the 26th of this month...
Heh, yea I actually read all of them. When the last one came out in...October?...some friends were talking about the series and I had never read any Sanderson, so I decided to pick it up. Read all 5 books in like a week, then read every other Sanderson Cosmere-based book lol.
Needless to say, I enjoyed his writing Just want a new Elantris novel now!
If all the players could read the setups and make any possible complaints they have before the game begins, that'd be great. The setups are a little different from usual.
I don't think those are *that* different from usual setups? I guess it's a bit unusual to choose the frame target for the rest of the game at the start, but.... Maybe it should at least be 48 hours or something? 24 hours seems a bit short; the team might not have even had the opportunity to effectively communicate yet and it's a pretty big choice. In any case, the game should be harder than usual for Mafia considering the player pool..
Yeah, it's not *that* different, but I just wanted to make sure everyone looked it over a little before the game began. The Jailkeeper functions differently than normal as well. Changing it to 48h seems fine, I'll do that.
Oh... Are you informed if your jail target was hit? What if you were hit while in jail? I guess not since you're not informed of anything "not required"?
I don't really see a problem with limiting consecutive jailings.. I guess it could become a problem if the Jailer misses that rule (ouch), but otherwise it should be *at least* as good as a hard limit (you can still just switch if you want)..
On January 12 2016 20:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Yeah, it's not *that* different, but I just wanted to make sure everyone looked it over a little before the game began. The Jailkeeper functions differently than normal as well. Changing it to 48h seems fine, I'll do that.
On January 12 2016 20:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Yeah, it's not *that* different, but I just wanted to make sure everyone looked it over a little before the game began. The Jailkeeper functions differently than normal as well. Changing it to 48h seems fine, I'll do that.
24h is better.
Really? Usually you can switch it around freely though, isn't 24h from the start a bit limiting?
Sorry, but I think it is better if I drop out of this one... just handed in my master thesis and I am totally and utterly exhausted. Will probably get drunk tonight and then I will have to prepare for my defense/some social obligations coming up during the next days. It's probably not a good idea to add an (hopefully) highlevel game of mafia to all of that.
Thanks for the invite - next time I will surely play. A glance at the OP reveals that there are certainly adequate replacements available.
It is now Day 1! You have until Saturday, Jan 16 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), or to vote someone to lynch. You may vote in this thread. Voting is mandatory.
Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
Let me explain in detail, according to statistics myself and HF have an absurd amount of games where we are opposite alignments. This means he is the best lynch for today even before he says anything!
This must be done, for great justice and tacos for everyone.
On January 14 2016 09:04 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
Glad to know that I can put you out of your misery
On January 14 2016 09:04 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
Glad to know that I can put you out of your misery
Bring it on, we need a little friction to get this thread moving.
Do you have experience with people claiming town on their first post being untrustworthy? Or maybe you were offended that I talked to rayn when you were the first post?
First three posts. I (Trfel) post, then raynpelikoneet posts, then DoYouHas posts.
On January 14 2016 09:02 DoYouHas wrote: Howdy rayn,
I rolled town, how about you?
Why does he only care about raynpelikoneet?
There is no town motivation for this post, because as town, DoYouHas needs to figure out the alignment of everyone else in the game. This post is filled with mafia motivation, as it is a clear attempt to buddy with raynpelikoneet.
On January 14 2016 09:04 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
And then he responds with self meta, completely unprompted? He's completely ignoring the rest of the thread, and doesn't even care about raynpelikoneet's response.
On January 14 2016 09:21 Damdred wrote: Game would be easy if I knew rayns alignment.
I don't understand?
If I started the game knowing your alignment I could let you do all the work d1 and know a mafia would get lynched then I could find 2 and three the next days after you died and we could then frolick through the fields of love and understanding.
I don't know some of you people since I've been gone for a long time. Please tell me a bit about yourself: what alignment and roles you prefer and why.
DoYouHas' posting has felt very relaxed and natural this game, while at the same time being eager to start finding mafia. Both of these make me feel that DoYouHas is town, especially combined.
On January 14 2016 09:04 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
Example of being eager to have the game move forward: + Show Spoiler +
On January 14 2016 09:04 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
Glad to know that I can put you out of your misery
Bring it on, we need a little friction to get this thread moving.
On January 14 2016 09:11 DoYouHas wrote: Do you have experience with people claiming town on their first post being untrustworthy? Or maybe you were offended that I talked to rayn when you were the first post?
And yes, this time I'm serious.
I need to head out now. I might be back later this evening, but I may not be back until tomorrow morning.
On January 14 2016 09:02 DoYouHas wrote: Howdy rayn,
I rolled town, how about you?
Why does he only care about raynpelikoneet?
There is no town motivation for this post, because as town, DoYouHas needs to figure out the alignment of everyone else in the game. This post is filled with mafia motivation, as it is a clear attempt to buddy with raynpelikoneet.
On January 14 2016 09:04 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
And then he responds with self meta, completely unprompted? He's completely ignoring the rest of the thread, and doesn't even care about raynpelikoneet's response.
One down, two to go
This is......................not enough for me. I want alot more substance.
On January 14 2016 09:46 Palmar wrote: so who's on board with lynching rayn just to piss him off because he spent time sending out invites and gathering people to play a "good" game?
On January 14 2016 09:35 Trfel wrote: DoYouHas is town
DoYouHas' posting has felt very relaxed and natural this game, while at the same time being eager to start finding mafia. Both of these make me feel that DoYouHas is town, especially combined.
On January 14 2016 09:04 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
Example of being eager to have the game move forward: + Show Spoiler +
On January 14 2016 09:04 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
Glad to know that I can put you out of your misery
Bring it on, we need a little friction to get this thread moving.
On January 14 2016 09:11 DoYouHas wrote: Do you have experience with people claiming town on their first post being untrustworthy? Or maybe you were offended that I talked to rayn when you were the first post?
And yes, this time I'm serious.
I need to head out now. I might be back later this evening, but I may not be back until tomorrow morning.
I guess it goes without saying, but Damdred, thanks for answering my question earlier. I did not get anything from your answer at this time but expect it to be useful later.
You should just town me and try to pocket me here.
As for ace, hello ace i'm pretty new player (XD). I'm not very good depending on who you ask, it takes a bit of prodding to get me to explain what I think and why but don't worry I don't tunnel.
On January 14 2016 10:19 ritoky wrote: truffle, why didn't you respond to ace's post?
I see no reason to do so. My play stands for itself.
Why do you ask me, when you didn't answer him yourself?
to see if you would overexplain your response or just call it a dumb question. i thought you were town until "my play stands for itself" which sounds canned. so back to having no reads; that was worthless and a waste of time.
On January 14 2016 10:19 ritoky wrote: truffle, why didn't you respond to ace's post?
I see no reason to do so. My play stands for itself.
Why do you ask me, when you didn't answer him yourself?
to see if you would overexplain your response or just call it a dumb question. i thought you were town until "my play stands for itself" which sounds canned. so back to having no reads; that was worthless and a waste of time.
Why do you consider asking a question that has an affect on your reads to be a waste of time?
On January 14 2016 09:25 Damdred wrote: If I started the game knowing your alignment I could let you do all the work d1 and know a mafia would get lynched then I could find 2 and three the next days after you died and we could then frolick through the fields of love and understanding.
Is there something I don't get here, or why are you assuming rayn = town if you knew his alignment? That's how it seems to me at least. Given that you're claiming you don't know his alignment, I find myself curious why you're not considering a mafiarayn possibility. (I don't think a mafia rayn would act the way you describe = you're assuming he'd be town if you knew his alignment.)
Explain please.
Liking how truffle is coming out of the exchange, while not so much how ritoky answered his questions.
I find it best if I start with rayn leaning one way so I can make a judge mental that isn't built in a omgus fuck you. Type of exchange that we know happens with us at points.
Which is a shitty reason but id rather start that way and access going forward. And it was partially a joke.
I generally assume Rayn is town in most situations and re-evaluate when he gets in his first argument or the first time he is wrong. I'm not sure what to take away from initial foreplay between Trifle and DewYewHas, but DamnDread seems fun.
On January 14 2016 10:19 ritoky wrote: truffle, why didn't you respond to ace's post?
I see no reason to do so. My play stands for itself.
Why do you ask me, when you didn't answer him yourself?
to see if you would overexplain your responseor just call it a dumb question. i thought you were townuntil "my play stands for itself" which sounds canned. so back to having no reads; that was worthless and a waste of time.
Color and bold emphasis mine.
For the record, here is my answer post, red used for the portion with ritoky said was scummy.
[QUOTE]On January 14 2016 12:21 Trfel wrote: Back to a computer, finally.[QUOTE]On January 14 2016 11:04 ritoky wrote: [QUOTE]On January 14 2016 10:59 Trfel wrote: [QUOTE]On January 14 2016 10:19 ritoky wrote: truffle, why didn't you respond to ace's post?[/QUOTE]I see no reason to do so. My play stands for itself.
Why do you ask me, when you didn't answer him yourself?[/QUOTE]
to see if you would overexplain your responseor just call it a dumb question. i thought you were townuntil "my play stands for itself" which sounds canned. so back to having no reads; that was worthless and a waste of time.[/QUOTE]Color and bold emphasis mine.
For the record, here is my answer post, red used for the portion with ritoky said was scummy.[QUOTE]On January 14 2016 10:59 Trfel wrote: [QUOTE]On January 14 2016 10:19 ritoky wrote: truffle, why didn't you respond to ace's post?[/QUOTE]I see no reason to do so.My play stands for itself.
Why do you ask me, when you didn't answer him yourself?[/QUOTE]
wash, nothing. it's pretty self explanatory: good response to question -> town points -> shitty canned phrase -> mafia points -> wash
On January 14 2016 10:19 ritoky wrote: truffle, why didn't you respond to ace's post?
I see no reason to do so. My play stands for itself.
Why do you ask me, when you didn't answer him yourself?
to see if you would overexplain your responseor just call it a dumb question. i thought you were townuntil "my play stands for itself" which sounds canned. so back to having no reads; that was worthless and a waste of time.
Color and bold emphasis mine.
For the record, here is my answer post, red used for the portion with ritoky said was scummy.
On January 14 2016 12:05 ritoky wrote: cool i have a town, welcome to the club cephiro.
Why do you think that Cephiro is town?
because he made an observation that required thinking and attention to detail rather than try to be funny, fit in, sound natural, or do nothing; like a vast majority of people thus far.
on the one hand i read the obs qt from the last game and see a degree of self-loathing about how you felt you underperformed and your aggression at the start being an overcompensation about that.
on the other hand i pushed some bullshit scum read on you the previous game and was scum with you the game before that and of your own admission you come out the gates very aggro as mafia so i think you are completely within your mafia meta regardless of the fact that you're pushing questioning on me.
ritoky's scumlean on trfel doesn't make much sense. He is ignoring trfel's townread on me post, which is trfel's meatiest one so far, which should put him outside of the column of players that "try to be funny, fit in, sound natural, or do nothing". He finds trfel's pushing questioning of him a townie thing, but frames it as either null or scummy because it isn't outside of what trfel could do as scum. Basically has argued trfel to a null unless i'm reading him wrong. So the only reason I see to mafia-lean trfel would be a gut read. But if it is a gut read, that is a lot of explanation. It would make more sense for rito to be scumleaning someone in his do nothing category since the contrast against that category is what makes cephiro town in his eyes.
Trfel is engaging multiple people, generating content, and pressing for answers.
Also Ace, I'm happy to describe how playstyle/preferences. However, I'm not terribly familiar with yours. Will you return the favor and describe yourself for me?
I am a low postcount player compared to the average on TL. It takes me a while to read and process. I prefer playing town though it could be argued that I'm better as scum. I tend to find scum through analyzing. When I have tried to find scum through heavy involvement and pressure I fall into tunneling and bias too easily. No real preference on specific roles, though I have had good luck with using abilities and NKs as both alignments (this part of your question is a little too close to bluehunting for my taste).
from last game after i called trfel mafia for some BS reason.
On December 27 2015 15:02 Trfel wrote: I mean, it's possible that you see my scum play as weak and wimpy, fine. Compared to my town play, though, it's extremely aggressive. I feel like you should know this, seeing as I kept mentioning that I was scared about hurting people's feelings in the scum QT? But there's no incentive for you to lie intentionally, so bleh.
I'm going to reread the thread now, so yeah.
in the previous game (don't remember the name off top of my head) we had been mafia, he opened similarly as aggro as this.
in outlaw he opened significantly less so. from a meta perspective his play is much more mafia indicative thus far.
the caveat being i saw in the obs qt that he was a bit upset with his play last game and his opening level of tryhard could be a direct response to feeling shitty about how he played last game. but currently gonna go with the meta read as superior.
I don't see this aggressiveness you are describing. He joked around, gave a townread on me, and has been questioning people and defending against you. Are you basing this on his initial satirical case on me?
On January 14 2016 13:58 Ace wrote: I don't have a style, I just post stuff
This response reminded me of a phrase from your own mafia manifesto, "never give the town a damn thing". If you aren't aware of your own meta/preferences then I hope to wake up to some level of contribution from you.
On January 14 2016 13:58 Ace wrote: I don't have a style, I just post stuff
This response reminded me of a phrase from your own mafia manifesto, "never give the town a damn thing". If you aren't aware of your own meta/preferences then I hope to wake up to some level of contribution from you.
I think Trfel town for reasons. Rito seems more inclined to explain his read on Trfl than I'm used to. TBD what it means. Right now not inclined to lynch tho.
DYH seems town so far... Basically it just feels like he's analyzing the game objectively. Not pushing any specific thought(s) or avoiding attention. Early credit grab
Insufficient data to use my new heuristic on rayn, and marv hasn't even posted yet :/
Some mixed feelings about ritoky. Could be town though with that level of confident posting style and activity...
I'll refrain from mentioning who disturbed me the most for a little bit.
VE could you elaborate on the thought process on your first three posts? You basically read the thread in a.... non-chronological order, yes? I am not sure i can see where ritoky is coming from with his Trfel read. However i personally think this looks like Trfel's townplay for the simple reason that he focuses on finding townreads instead of scumreads -- i looked the last scumgame ritoky referred to (at least i think it was that game?) and what Trfel did there was, yes, aggressive, but it was basically a case on VE. I don't think Trfel's meta is that black and white (aggressive = mafia, which, unless i am mistaken ritoky is suggesting here). The last time i personally played with Trfel (when he was scum) he didn't play like in the game ritoky pointed out at all..
He seems to be the most involved person to get the game going and actually scumhunt, and that's why i think he is town. I don't even think "aggressive" is the right word here, "involved" would be more fitting. So yeah, Trfel is town.
ritoky please, elaborate this. I also think the associative read on DYH is... meh.. I don't think there is much anything to say about other people.
I think DYH's play is perfectly in range of his scumplay, and he hasn't really.. contributed much aside the Trfel read. Judging from his last coach QT he is a pretty good scumplayer and aware of his "meta" so i don't think Trfel's read is necessarily correct here, i just think the read tells more about Trfel than it does from DYH.
Ace, one thing. I know your scumplay looks pretty much like your townplay because you like... ugh.. how to put it.. don't necessarily care about "how you look". I mean you don't take part in discussions you find "not relevant" but i have to disagree here with you; It's also the reason you look "scummy" when you are town, people get paranoid because they thing you are withholding information (like already seen to be said in this game).
I don't think Cephiro's and Alot's posting makes them anything yet.
On January 14 2016 17:10 Xatalos wrote: DYH seems town so far... Basically it just feels like he's analyzing the game objectively. Not pushing any specific thought(s) or avoiding attention. Early credit grab
If i made the posts DYH did would you consider me town?
On January 14 2016 17:10 Xatalos wrote: DYH seems town so far... Basically it just feels like he's analyzing the game objectively. Not pushing any specific thought(s) or avoiding attention. Early credit grab
If i made the posts DYH did would you consider me town?
Not really... I use a different heuristic for you now anyway
On January 14 2016 17:10 Xatalos wrote: DYH seems town so far... Basically it just feels like he's analyzing the game objectively. Not pushing any specific thought(s) or avoiding attention. Early credit grab
If i made the posts DYH did would you consider me town?
Not really... I use a different heuristic for you now anyway
On January 14 2016 17:10 Xatalos wrote: DYH seems town so far... Basically it just feels like he's analyzing the game objectively. Not pushing any specific thought(s) or avoiding attention. Early credit grab
If i made the posts DYH did would you consider me town?
Not really... I use a different heuristic for you now anyway
Do you realize DYH is a really good scumplayer?
I don't really remember him at all...... If that's the case, I guess he can't be given a free pass for now. His posts still seemed fine enough to me. You also pretty much said that it's in the "range of his scumplay", not scummy. Does he just appear really town as scum?
On January 14 2016 17:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Xatalos what do you think about Damdred so far?
He's actually the player I didn't immediately want to talk about earlier. I guess it's fine.
It's just that I was reading his post in the player read diagram thread where he was sad that his play was so easy to read (basically "emotive at all? YES -> town, NO -> mafia" haha). When I looked at how he played this game, I didn't really see any significant emotion, but there were some really weak signs of emotion such as the "(XD)" at one point. It got me thinking that he could be mindful of his read diagram and try to include some sort of emotion forcefully. But then again, I realized that it was too early to judge him just based on a couple of posts.
Now the usefulness of this thought process is probably more limited, since I already said it, but what do you think?
On January 14 2016 17:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am saying he could definitely make those posts as mafia aswell as town. I don't have a read on one way or another on him, if that wasn't clear.
Maybe... My gut feeling was just that he was observing what actually happened in the thread rather than pushing some pre-set agenda... We'll see.
On January 14 2016 17:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Xatalos what do you think about Damdred so far?
He's actually the player I didn't immediately want to talk about earlier. I guess it's fine.
It's just that I was reading his post in the player read diagram thread where he was sad that his play was so easy to read (basically "emotive at all? YES -> town, NO -> mafia" haha). When I looked at how he played this game, I didn't really see any significant emotion, but there were some really weak signs of emotion such as the "(XD)" at one point. It got me thinking that he could be mindful of his read diagram and try to include some sort of emotion forcefully. But then again, I realized that it was too early to judge him just based on a couple of posts.
Now the usefulness of this thought process is probably more limited, since I already said it, but what do you think?
I am conflicted on him since i kinda feel like i should have a read on him and i don't. If that makes sense... On the other hand i wanna townread him for his eagerness to trying to read me, on the other hand i think he is scummy because of this post:
On January 14 2016 09:31 Damdred wrote: But seriously I don't really have a read any which way and I don't quite see what you are saying here yet if you are being serious
..or not really this post, but what he says after; After this Trfel makes his town case on DYH and i feel like Damdred (being a tone reader -- and Trfel actually contributing a reasonable amount) should have a read on him here. Some sort of a read, any sort. It's weird he doesn't.
Well, I'm pretty much null on him too at this point. I've historically been bad at reading him and it's especially hard when there's so little content yet.
On January 14 2016 10:19 Damdred wrote: You should just town me and try to pocket me here.
As for ace, hello ace i'm pretty new player (XD). I'm not very good depending on who you ask, it takes a bit of prodding to get me to explain what I think and why but don't worry I don't tunnel.
I've heard a lot about you and expect a lot
Oh yeah, this post just felt a bit bad to me overall. Both the weak (XD) like it was inserted as an afterthought to have some emotion (if that makes any sense hahaha.... maybe not) and the buddying with Ace? All conjecture at this point though.
On January 14 2016 17:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: VE could you elaborate on the thought process on your first three posts? You basically read the thread in a.... non-chronological order, yes? I am not sure i can see where ritoky is coming from with his Trfel read. However i personally think this looks like Trfel's townplay for the simple reason that he focuses on finding townreads instead of scumreads -- i looked the last scumgame ritoky referred to (at least i think it was that game?) and what Trfel did there was, yes, aggressive, but it was basically a case on VE. I don't think Trfel's meta is that black and white (aggressive = mafia, which, unless i am mistaken ritoky is suggesting here). The last time i personally played with Trfel (when he was scum) he didn't play like in the game ritoky pointed out at all..
He seems to be the most involved person to get the game going and actually scumhunt, and that's why i think he is town. I don't even think "aggressive" is the right word here, "involved" would be more fitting. So yeah, Trfel is town.
ritoky please, elaborate this. I also think the associative read on DYH is... meh.. I don't think there is much anything to say about other people.
I think DYH's play is perfectly in range of his scumplay, and he hasn't really.. contributed much aside the Trfel read. Judging from his last coach QT he is a pretty good scumplayer and aware of his "meta" so i don't think Trfel's read is necessarily correct here, i just think the read tells more about Trfel than it does from DYH.
Ace, one thing. I know your scumplay looks pretty much like your townplay because you like... ugh.. how to put it.. don't necessarily care about "how you look". I mean you don't take part in discussions you find "not relevant" but i have to disagree here with you; It's also the reason you look "scummy" when you are town, people get paranoid because they thing you are withholding information (like already seen to be said in this game).
I don't think Cephiro's and Alot's posting makes them anything yet.
Btw yeah, I forgot to mention this one. It really doesn't make much sense that scum would name their teammate as their first townread. It makes even less sense to suspect them as a scumteam just because of that happening. Rather it should be the opposite, usually.
To be fair, I voted you just because of Palmar's funny post. And I voted for Ace because he seemed the least willing to put forth any useful effort. Maybe some votes could pressure him into doing stuff. If not, well... There could be worse lynches.
On January 14 2016 17:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: VE could you elaborate on the thought process on your first three posts? You basically read the thread in a.... non-chronological order, yes? I am not sure i can see where ritoky is coming from with his Trfel read. However i personally think this looks like Trfel's townplay for the simple reason that he focuses on finding townreads instead of scumreads -- i looked the last scumgame ritoky referred to (at least i think it was that game?) and what Trfel did there was, yes, aggressive, but it was basically a case on VE. I don't think Trfel's meta is that black and white (aggressive = mafia, which, unless i am mistaken ritoky is suggesting here). The last time i personally played with Trfel (when he was scum) he didn't play like in the game ritoky pointed out at all..
He seems to be the most involved person to get the game going and actually scumhunt, and that's why i think he is town. I don't even think "aggressive" is the right word here, "involved" would be more fitting. So yeah, Trfel is town.
ritoky please, elaborate this. I also think the associative read on DYH is... meh.. I don't think there is much anything to say about other people.
I think DYH's play is perfectly in range of his scumplay, and he hasn't really.. contributed much aside the Trfel read. Judging from his last coach QT he is a pretty good scumplayer and aware of his "meta" so i don't think Trfel's read is necessarily correct here, i just think the read tells more about Trfel than it does from DYH.
Ace, one thing. I know your scumplay looks pretty much like your townplay because you like... ugh.. how to put it.. don't necessarily care about "how you look". I mean you don't take part in discussions you find "not relevant" but i have to disagree here with you; It's also the reason you look "scummy" when you are town, people get paranoid because they thing you are withholding information (like already seen to be said in this game).
I don't think Cephiro's and Alot's posting makes them anything yet.
Btw yeah, I forgot to mention this one. It really doesn't make much sense that scum would name their teammate as their first townread. It makes even less sense to suspect them as a scumteam just because of that happening. Rather it should be the opposite, usually.
On January 14 2016 18:01 Xatalos wrote: To be fair, I voted you just because of Palmar's funny post. And I voted for Ace because he seemed the least willing to put forth any useful effort. Maybe some votes could pressure him into doing stuff. If not, well... There could be worse lynches.
this too. Ace seems to be putting in effort but you are voting for him so he would put in effort?
On January 14 2016 17:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: VE could you elaborate on the thought process on your first three posts? You basically read the thread in a.... non-chronological order, yes? I am not sure i can see where ritoky is coming from with his Trfel read. However i personally think this looks like Trfel's townplay for the simple reason that he focuses on finding townreads instead of scumreads -- i looked the last scumgame ritoky referred to (at least i think it was that game?) and what Trfel did there was, yes, aggressive, but it was basically a case on VE. I don't think Trfel's meta is that black and white (aggressive = mafia, which, unless i am mistaken ritoky is suggesting here). The last time i personally played with Trfel (when he was scum) he didn't play like in the game ritoky pointed out at all..
He seems to be the most involved person to get the game going and actually scumhunt, and that's why i think he is town. I don't even think "aggressive" is the right word here, "involved" would be more fitting. So yeah, Trfel is town.
ritoky please, elaborate this. I also think the associative read on DYH is... meh.. I don't think there is much anything to say about other people.
I think DYH's play is perfectly in range of his scumplay, and he hasn't really.. contributed much aside the Trfel read. Judging from his last coach QT he is a pretty good scumplayer and aware of his "meta" so i don't think Trfel's read is necessarily correct here, i just think the read tells more about Trfel than it does from DYH.
Ace, one thing. I know your scumplay looks pretty much like your townplay because you like... ugh.. how to put it.. don't necessarily care about "how you look". I mean you don't take part in discussions you find "not relevant" but i have to disagree here with you; It's also the reason you look "scummy" when you are town, people get paranoid because they thing you are withholding information (like already seen to be said in this game).
I don't think Cephiro's and Alot's posting makes them anything yet.
Btw yeah, I forgot to mention this one. It really doesn't make much sense that scum would name their teammate as their first townread. It makes even less sense to suspect them as a scumteam just because of that happening. Rather it should be the opposite, usually.
What? I don't understand anything you say here.
Referring to ritoky's post where he made the unflipped association case (and for a reason that wouldn't make it good even if it was flipped).
On January 14 2016 18:01 Xatalos wrote: To be fair, I voted you just because of Palmar's funny post. And I voted for Ace because he seemed the least willing to put forth any useful effort. Maybe some votes could pressure him into doing stuff. If not, well... There could be worse lynches.
this too. Ace seems to be putting in effort but you are voting for him so he would put in effort?
On January 14 2016 17:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: VE could you elaborate on the thought process on your first three posts? You basically read the thread in a.... non-chronological order, yes? I am not sure i can see where ritoky is coming from with his Trfel read. However i personally think this looks like Trfel's townplay for the simple reason that he focuses on finding townreads instead of scumreads -- i looked the last scumgame ritoky referred to (at least i think it was that game?) and what Trfel did there was, yes, aggressive, but it was basically a case on VE. I don't think Trfel's meta is that black and white (aggressive = mafia, which, unless i am mistaken ritoky is suggesting here). The last time i personally played with Trfel (when he was scum) he didn't play like in the game ritoky pointed out at all..
He seems to be the most involved person to get the game going and actually scumhunt, and that's why i think he is town. I don't even think "aggressive" is the right word here, "involved" would be more fitting. So yeah, Trfel is town.
ritoky please, elaborate this. I also think the associative read on DYH is... meh.. I don't think there is much anything to say about other people.
I think DYH's play is perfectly in range of his scumplay, and he hasn't really.. contributed much aside the Trfel read. Judging from his last coach QT he is a pretty good scumplayer and aware of his "meta" so i don't think Trfel's read is necessarily correct here, i just think the read tells more about Trfel than it does from DYH.
Ace, one thing. I know your scumplay looks pretty much like your townplay because you like... ugh.. how to put it.. don't necessarily care about "how you look". I mean you don't take part in discussions you find "not relevant" but i have to disagree here with you; It's also the reason you look "scummy" when you are town, people get paranoid because they thing you are withholding information (like already seen to be said in this game).
I don't think Cephiro's and Alot's posting makes them anything yet.
Btw yeah, I forgot to mention this one. It really doesn't make much sense that scum would name their teammate as their first townread. It makes even less sense to suspect them as a scumteam just because of that happening. Rather it should be the opposite, usually.
What? I don't understand anything you say here.
Referring to ritoky's post where he made the unflipped association case (and for a reason that wouldn't make it good even if it was flipped).
"It really doesn't make much sense that scum would name their teammate as their first townread." what are you referring here?
I didn't like ritoky's read on trfel and then he made a post about dyh association if trfel is mafia.
I don't think he ever says that association or those posts as town. A whole lot of wishy washy reads into an association that doesn't make sense. Trfel hard defends dyh and dyh defends trfel kind of. They aren't very likely mafia together at all and anyone thinking logically would think the same thing.
On January 14 2016 18:01 Xatalos wrote: To be fair, I voted you just because of Palmar's funny post. And I voted for Ace because he seemed the least willing to put forth any useful effort. Maybe some votes could pressure him into doing stuff. If not, well... There could be worse lynches.
this too. Ace seems to be putting in effort but you are voting for him so he would put in effort?
On January 14 2016 13:42 DoYouHas wrote: Scumlean ritoky, townlean trfel
ritoky's scumlean on trfel doesn't make much sense. He is ignoring trfel's townread on me post, which is trfel's meatiest one so far, which should put him outside of the column of players that "try to be funny, fit in, sound natural, or do nothing". He finds trfel's pushing questioning of him a townie thing, but frames it as either null or scummy because it isn't outside of what trfel could do as scum. Basically has argued trfel to a null unless i'm reading him wrong. So the only reason I see to mafia-lean trfel would be a gut read. But if it is a gut read, that is a lot of explanation. It would make more sense for rito to be scumleaning someone in his do nothing category since the contrast against that category is what makes cephiro town in his eyes.
Trfel is engaging multiple people, generating content, and pressing for answers.
On January 14 2016 14:08 DoYouHas wrote: I don't see this aggressiveness you are describing. He joked around, gave a townread on me, and has been questioning people and defending against you. Are you basing this on his initial satirical case on me?
On January 14 2016 18:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Ahh okay.. now i see what you mean.. hmm.. it actually makes sense. Maybe ritoky is town too.
How did you come to ritoky is town btw? I was really just saying that ritoky's post didn't make much sense...
Wait what the fuck.. I did misunderstand what you were saying again?
What i realized is that if ritoky is mafia, and Trfel is mafia, it doesn't make sense to scumread Trfel for what he did based on meta (which should not be the case anyways). So therefore i think they are not mafia together.
It makes equally low amount of sense to associate Trfel and DYH ( (1) in case they are both town -- (2) or even if DYH is scum) because he is (1) either putting himself into a situation where he is "making enemies with two townies" for no real reason or (2) putting "suspicion" on scumbuddy over basically nothing.
I think the town motivation here is stronger than the mafia one, actually i can't see mafia motivation at all.
raynpelikoneet wrote: ritoky please, elaborate this. I also think the associative read on DYH is... meh..
On January 14 2016 17:59 Xatalos wrote: Btw yeah, I forgot to mention this one. It really doesn't make much sense that scum would name their teammate as their first townread. It makes even less sense to suspect them as a scumteam just because of that happening. Rather it should be the opposite, usually.
Since i apparently misunderstood what you were saying; walk me through this; You bolded that part in my post. You responded with the quote above. Who are you talking about in your quoted post if the conclusion is...
I was really just saying that ritoky's post didn't make much sense...
Well, I think there's a decent potential scum motivation though. If one of them is scum and lynched, you have an excuse to go for the other one. If they're both town, you can just push them together for that reasoning. If one flips town, you lose credibility, too bad, but it's good just to have an excuse to go for them both like that?
I was just saying that ritoky's association between them didn't make sense because the scumteam rarely hard townread/defend each other right at the start.
On January 14 2016 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so you were talking about Trfel and DYH there. I somehow thought you were talking about ritoky.
I disagree with you. I don't think it's likely at all ritoky does that as mafia.
Could you explain? I don't really follow either of those points :/ Sadly.
I don't see why ritoky: 1).."makes enemies" with two townies 2)..does call his scumbuddy scum (yes he puts suspicion on DYH because if he is just gonna claim 100% associative read that's retarded and bullshit 100%)
And he doesn't make sense as scum with Trfel anyways. Because as scum you will definitely hold off making meta-cases, especially on your scumbuddies, that's just plain out dumb.
To be fair I think it was just an associative read though? And it's not like there weren't any benefits to be had by saying that as scum... Like I mentioned in my previous post... The question becomes, is it better to stay silent or say that as scum? I don't think the answer is clear.
Okay so what I thought was this: Originally I disliked Trfel's entrance into the thread and intimated as much, but did so without realizing that he had completely recanted what it was he said he didn't like in the post I didn't like. After reading through the exchanges I was left with a distinct town feel from Trfel based on the fact that he A) Made a read on DYH or some such, B) Reversed that read in a short enough span that I didn't even realize that it had happened, and C) continued to be a relevant person in the game afterwards. All of these things together make it seem as though Trfel gives no fucks and is towning it up.
Because all of these things are things I noticed relatively quickly and without THOROUGHLY reading the thread (which I still have NOT done sadly) and because this is the kind of thing I think ritoky looks at, I found his scumread suspicious.
VE: I also didn't really like the things ritoky was pushing. It was just the way he posted that made me think he could be town after all. He was so bold and didn't really seem to care what others thought of him. Fits better with a town mindset.
First three posts. I (Trfel) post, then raynpelikoneet posts, then DoYouHas posts.
On January 14 2016 09:02 DoYouHas wrote: Howdy rayn,
I rolled town, how about you?
Why does he only care about raynpelikoneet?
There is no town motivation for this post, because as town, DoYouHas needs to figure out the alignment of everyone else in the game. This post is filled with mafia motivation, as it is a clear attempt to buddy with raynpelikoneet.
On January 14 2016 09:04 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
And then he responds with self meta, completely unprompted? He's completely ignoring the rest of the thread, and doesn't even care about raynpelikoneet's response.
One down, two to go
This is......................not enough for me. I want alot more substance.
On January 14 2016 09:46 Palmar wrote: so who's on board with lynching rayn just to piss him off because he spent time sending out invites and gathering people to play a "good" game?
On January 14 2016 09:35 Trfel wrote: DoYouHas is town
DoYouHas' posting has felt very relaxed and natural this game, while at the same time being eager to start finding mafia. Both of these make me feel that DoYouHas is town, especially combined.
On January 14 2016 09:04 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
Example of being eager to have the game move forward: + Show Spoiler +
On January 14 2016 09:04 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
Glad to know that I can put you out of your misery
Bring it on, we need a little friction to get this thread moving.
On January 14 2016 09:11 DoYouHas wrote: Do you have experience with people claiming town on their first post being untrustworthy? Or maybe you were offended that I talked to rayn when you were the first post?
And yes, this time I'm serious.
I need to head out now. I might be back later this evening, but I may not be back until tomorrow morning.
wtf -.-
Fine I'll read the whole thread and THEN post.
Now i am assuming you read the thread and however much (or few) attention you paid to the thread at that time you commented on posts you found interesting. So first is the Trfel's "scumread" on DYH. The problem i have here is that Palmar's post you quoted happened after the Trfel's townread post on DYH.
Now it is natural that you comment on it, and it makes sense, what doesn't make sense is why you skip that post at first and comment on Palmar's post - - and only then come back to comment on it?
On January 14 2016 18:37 Xatalos wrote: I guess so...
VE: I also didn't really like the things ritoky was pushing. It was just the way he posted that made me think he could be town after all. He was so bold and didn't really seem to care what others thought of him. Fits better with a town mindset.
This describes ritoky as either alignment as far as I'm aware.
On January 14 2016 18:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: VE i don't think that explains what i am asking. I am talking about this set of posts you made: + Show Spoiler +
First three posts. I (Trfel) post, then raynpelikoneet posts, then DoYouHas posts.
On January 14 2016 09:02 DoYouHas wrote: Howdy rayn,
I rolled town, how about you?
Why does he only care about raynpelikoneet?
There is no town motivation for this post, because as town, DoYouHas needs to figure out the alignment of everyone else in the game. This post is filled with mafia motivation, as it is a clear attempt to buddy with raynpelikoneet.
On January 14 2016 09:04 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
And then he responds with self meta, completely unprompted? He's completely ignoring the rest of the thread, and doesn't even care about raynpelikoneet's response.
One down, two to go
This is......................not enough for me. I want alot more substance.
On January 14 2016 09:46 Palmar wrote: so who's on board with lynching rayn just to piss him off because he spent time sending out invites and gathering people to play a "good" game?
On January 14 2016 09:35 Trfel wrote: DoYouHas is town
DoYouHas' posting has felt very relaxed and natural this game, while at the same time being eager to start finding mafia. Both of these make me feel that DoYouHas is town, especially combined.
On January 14 2016 09:04 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
Example of being eager to have the game move forward: + Show Spoiler +
On January 14 2016 09:04 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, it was a bit of a relief. Rolling scum after spending all last newbie game explaining exactly how I like to play as mafia to a bunch of people had me worried.
Glad to know that I can put you out of your misery
Bring it on, we need a little friction to get this thread moving.
On January 14 2016 09:11 DoYouHas wrote: Do you have experience with people claiming town on their first post being untrustworthy? Or maybe you were offended that I talked to rayn when you were the first post?
And yes, this time I'm serious.
I need to head out now. I might be back later this evening, but I may not be back until tomorrow morning.
wtf -.-
Fine I'll read the whole thread and THEN post.
Now i am assuming you read the thread and however much (or few) attention you paid to the thread at that time you commented on posts you found interesting. So first is the Trfel's "scumread" on DYH. The problem i have here is that Palmar's post you quoted happened after the Trfel's townread post on DYH.
Now it is natural that you comment on it, and it makes sense, what doesn't make sense is why you skip that post at first and comment on Palmar's post - - and only then come back to comment on it?
Is that really even suspicious? I often comment first on something that I found most interesting or urgent, then come back to some earlier post.
VE opens thread to latest post, it's close to the D1 post. VE reads some of the posts and gets to Trfel's post. VE posts about Trfel. After VE's post he goes to the CURRENT page and reads Palmar's post. Posts about it. Notices that further up is a post recanting Trfel's DYH read. VE posts about reading the thread and makes an exasperation emoji.
Yes, those posts were made while reading the thread out of order. I HAVE NOT read the whole thread yet, only surrounding posts of Trfel's, and a few of ritoky's posts.
On January 14 2016 18:37 Xatalos wrote: I guess so...
VE: I also didn't really like the things ritoky was pushing. It was just the way he posted that made me think he could be town after all. He was so bold and didn't really seem to care what others thought of him. Fits better with a town mindset.
This describes ritoky as either alignment as far as I'm aware.
On January 14 2016 18:37 Xatalos wrote: I guess so...
VE: I also didn't really like the things ritoky was pushing. It was just the way he posted that made me think he could be town after all. He was so bold and didn't really seem to care what others thought of him. Fits better with a town mindset.
This describes ritoky as either alignment as far as I'm aware.
Really? Hm...
I mean, have you ever read a game where ritoky gives a shit what anyone thinks?
On January 14 2016 18:42 VisceraEyes wrote: It goes like this rayn.
VE opens thread to latest post, it's close to the D1 post. VE reads some of the posts and gets to Trfel's post. VE posts about Trfel. After VE's post he goes to the CURRENT page and reads Palmar's post. Posts about it. Notices that further up is a post recanting Trfel's DYH read. VE posts about reading the thread and makes an exasperation emoji.
Yes, those posts were made while reading the thread out of order. I HAVE NOT read the whole thread yet, only surrounding posts of Trfel's, and a few of ritoky's posts.
On January 14 2016 18:42 VisceraEyes wrote: It goes like this rayn.
VE opens thread to latest post, it's close to the D1 post. VE reads some of the posts and gets to Trfel's post. VE posts about Trfel. After VE's post he goes to the CURRENT page and reads Palmar's post. Posts about it. Notices that further up is a post recanting Trfel's DYH read. VE posts about reading the thread and makes an exasperation emoji.
Yes, those posts were made while reading the thread out of order. I HAVE NOT read the whole thread yet, only surrounding posts of Trfel's, and a few of ritoky's posts.
okay.
And now some of your posts. You look fine. I don't know what Palmar's talking about, but he's generally on a different level than me.
On January 14 2016 18:37 Xatalos wrote: I guess so...
VE: I also didn't really like the things ritoky was pushing. It was just the way he posted that made me think he could be town after all. He was so bold and didn't really seem to care what others thought of him. Fits better with a town mindset.
This describes ritoky as either alignment as far as I'm aware.
Really? Hm...
I mean, have you ever read a game where ritoky gives a shit what anyone thinks?
Can't say I really remember his play. Haven't played in a while.
Could you link to a scum game of his where he's posting whatever, perhaps?
On January 14 2016 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so you were talking about Trfel and DYH there. I somehow thought you were talking about ritoky.
I disagree with you. I don't think it's likely at all ritoky does that as mafia.
Could you explain? I don't really follow either of those points :/ Sadly.
I don't see why ritoky: 1).."makes enemies" with two townies 2)..does call his scumbuddy scum (yes he puts suspicion on DYH because if he is just gonna claim 100% associative read that's retarded and bullshit 100%)
On January 14 2016 18:37 Xatalos wrote: I guess so...
VE: I also didn't really like the things ritoky was pushing. It was just the way he posted that made me think he could be town after all. He was so bold and didn't really seem to care what others thought of him. Fits better with a town mindset.
This describes ritoky as either alignment as far as I'm aware.
On January 14 2016 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so you were talking about Trfel and DYH there. I somehow thought you were talking about ritoky.
I disagree with you. I don't think it's likely at all ritoky does that as mafia.
Could you explain? I don't really follow either of those points :/ Sadly.
I don't see why ritoky: 1).."makes enemies" with two townies 2)..does call his scumbuddy scum (yes he puts suspicion on DYH because if he is just gonna claim 100% associative read that's retarded and bullshit 100%)
On January 14 2016 18:37 Xatalos wrote: I guess so...
VE: I also didn't really like the things ritoky was pushing. It was just the way he posted that made me think he could be town after all. He was so bold and didn't really seem to care what others thought of him. Fits better with a town mindset.
This describes ritoky as either alignment as far as I'm aware.
I disagree.
Well I mean obviously everyone cares what you think rayn. Your perception is biased.
On January 14 2016 18:01 Xatalos wrote: To be fair, I voted you just because of Palmar's funny post. And I voted for Ace because he seemed the least willing to put forth any useful effort. Maybe some votes could pressure him into doing stuff. If not, well... There could be worse lynches.
this too. Ace seems to be putting in effort but you are voting for him so he would put in effort?
This is also a gross misrepresentation. Ace has written about 5 posts, none of which can be classified as high effort posts.
On January 14 2016 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so you were talking about Trfel and DYH there. I somehow thought you were talking about ritoky.
I disagree with you. I don't think it's likely at all ritoky does that as mafia.
Could you explain? I don't really follow either of those points :/ Sadly.
I don't see why ritoky: 1).."makes enemies" with two townies 2)..does call his scumbuddy scum (yes he puts suspicion on DYH because if he is just gonna claim 100% associative read that's retarded and bullshit 100%)
..when he can just.. not to do that.
This is pointless and frankly just wrong defense.
clearly rayn is pushing an agenda here.
Hm... You mean they would be scum together?
No, he might just be defending a town ritoky. He is pushing his own agenda in controlling the thread and making friends.
On January 14 2016 18:01 Xatalos wrote: To be fair, I voted you just because of Palmar's funny post. And I voted for Ace because he seemed the least willing to put forth any useful effort. Maybe some votes could pressure him into doing stuff. If not, well... There could be worse lynches.
this too. Ace seems to be putting in effort but you are voting for him so he would put in effort?
This is also a gross misrepresentation. Ace has written about 5 posts, none of which can be classified as high effort posts.
To be fair I think rayn just misinterpreted my post there... Meaning he thought I said that or something like that.
For this stage in the game I'd classify Ace's posts as high effort - for Ace. Doesn't he just like, NOT post until some shit goes on? Or just post like Tyrone Biggums emojis?
On January 14 2016 18:51 Palmar wrote: VE, do you share any of my concerns about rayn?
I mean, he seems to be willfully ignoring the fact that this is how I play the game. Wanting explanation for something he (should) be used to out of me as town.
Outside of that he seems to be relatively rayny. I don't follow your point about what he said. What's wrong about it?
On January 14 2016 18:51 Palmar wrote: VE, do you share any of my concerns about rayn?
I mean, he seems to be willfully ignoring the fact that this is how I play the game. Wanting explanation for something he (should) be used to out of me as town.
Outside of that he seems to be relatively rayny. I don't follow your point about what he said. What's wrong about it?
He is blatantly misrepresenting most people in the thread. For example the thing I quoted about Ace.
Xatalos was very clear.
VE, I think it's time we do something about this. We must purge town of rayn.
On January 14 2016 18:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Except i don't blantantly, intentionally misrepresent anyone when i am mafia.
That is a misrepresentation of your own meta.
Will it ever end?
Like I disagree with this. Rayn doesn't do that as mafia. But like...unless thats what he's doing here now, then why would he even say that as proof of why he's not mafia?
On January 14 2016 18:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Except i don't blantantly, intentionally misrepresent anyone when i am mafia.
That is a misrepresentation of your own meta.
Will it ever end?
Like I disagree with this. Rayn doesn't do that as mafia. But like...unless thats what he's doing here now, then why would he even say that as proof of why he's not mafia?
Good point, it compounds my arguments in a way that make it almost impossible for rayn to be town.
On January 14 2016 18:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Except i don't blantantly, intentionally misrepresent anyone when i am mafia.
That is a misrepresentation of your own meta.
Will it ever end?
Like I disagree with this. Rayn doesn't do that as mafia. But like...unless thats what he's doing here now, then why would he even say that as proof of why he's not mafia?
Good point, it compounds my arguments in a way that make it almost impossible for rayn to be town.
On January 14 2016 18:59 Xatalos wrote: Haha... I'm not totally sure if you're serious Palmar That "evidence" is pretty shaky... And rayn can be a huge asset if he's town.
My new heuristic... Its results are mixed, I guess. I'm undecided for the time being.
I suggest you decide fast because rayn will come back with a rebuttal that may sound convincing when in reality it will simply be a web of lies.
On January 14 2016 18:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Except i don't blantantly, intentionally misrepresent anyone when i am mafia.
What a weird thing to say......
No it's not, i literally will or would never ever intentionally conclude a post says the OPPOSITE it in fact does, which is what Palmar is saying here. That's just straight out retarded to assume so.
The thing is, as i clearly explained, that i misread one word in Xatalos' post. That doesn't make me anything, except for misreading a word.
On January 14 2016 18:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Except i don't blantantly, intentionally misrepresent anyone when i am mafia.
What a weird thing to say......
No it's not, i literally will or would never ever intentionally conclude a post says the OPPOSITE it in fact does, which is what Palmar is saying here. That's just straight out retarded to assume so.
The thing is, as i clearly explained, that i misread one word in Xatalos' post. That doesn't make me anything, except for misreading a word.
On January 14 2016 18:57 Palmar wrote: He misrepresented Xatalos by misrepresenting Ace????
Also how does this make sense? How did i "misrepresent Ace"? I didn't even talk about what Ace said -- i talked about what Xatalos' vote on him was based on.
On January 14 2016 18:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Except i don't blantantly, intentionally misrepresent anyone when i am mafia.
What a weird thing to say......
No it's not, i literally will or would never ever intentionally conclude a post says the OPPOSITE it in fact does, which is what Palmar is saying here. That's just straight out retarded to assume so.
The thing is, as i clearly explained, that i misread one word in Xatalos' post. That doesn't make me anything, except for misreading a word.
and with the wave of a wand a misrepresentation becomes a misreading.
I am not a big fan of meta, but I recall you in multiple games being someone who doesn't think twice as mafia about subtly misrepresenting people if it pushes your agenda. The difference is that you rarely get caught.
On January 14 2016 18:57 Palmar wrote: He misrepresented Xatalos by misrepresenting Ace????
Also how does this make sense? How did i "misrepresent Ace"? I didn't even talk about what Ace said -- i talked about what Xatalos' vote on him was based on.
So you think the correct defense to my case is to misrepresent me? Read VE's posts if you want to argue.
On January 14 2016 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so you were talking about Trfel and DYH there. I somehow thought you were talking about ritoky.
I disagree with you. I don't think it's likely at all ritoky does that as mafia.
Could you explain? I don't really follow either of those points :/ Sadly.
I don't see why ritoky: 1).."makes enemies" with two townies 2)..does call his scumbuddy scum (yes he puts suspicion on DYH because if he is just gonna claim 100% associative read that's retarded and bullshit 100%)
..when he can just.. not to do that.
This is pointless and frankly just wrong defense.
clearly rayn is pushing an agenda here.
And this is just straight out bullshit Palmar. If you are gonna claim this is "wrong" then point out why it is wrong and why me making "wrong conclusion" is scummy. You are just saying shit without any substance.
On January 14 2016 19:07 ritoky wrote: nearly 8 months and i think i can count the number of times my kid has slept silently through an entire night on 2 hands....fml
On January 14 2016 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so you were talking about Trfel and DYH there. I somehow thought you were talking about ritoky.
I disagree with you. I don't think it's likely at all ritoky does that as mafia.
Could you explain? I don't really follow either of those points :/ Sadly.
I don't see why ritoky: 1).."makes enemies" with two townies 2)..does call his scumbuddy scum (yes he puts suspicion on DYH because if he is just gonna claim 100% associative read that's retarded and bullshit 100%)
..when he can just.. not to do that.
This is pointless and frankly just wrong defense.
clearly rayn is pushing an agenda here.
And this is just straight out bullshit Palmar. If you are gonna claim this is "wrong" then point out why it is wrong and why me making "wrong conclusion" is scummy. You are just saying shit without any substance.
I have explained it rayn, you're just barely reading the thread so you don't notice. You're making an associative read based on your own misrepresentation. If ritoky is not mafia, then this is not the reason he is not mafia.
On January 14 2016 19:07 ritoky wrote: nearly 8 months and i think i can count the number of times my kid has slept silently through an entire night on 2 hands....fml
It gets better I promise.
probably gonna be a bit, wife wants a 2nd in the near future; and believe it or not "i want a good night's sleep" doesn't convince her to the contrary.
On January 14 2016 18:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Except i don't blantantly, intentionally misrepresent anyone when i am mafia.
What a weird thing to say......
No it's not, i literally will or would never ever intentionally conclude a post says the OPPOSITE it in fact does, which is what Palmar is saying here. That's just straight out retarded to assume so.
The thing is, as i clearly explained, that i misread one word in Xatalos' post. That doesn't make me anything, except for misreading a word.
and with the wave of a wand a misrepresentation becomes a misreading.
I am not a big fan of meta, but I recall you in multiple games being someone who doesn't think twice as mafia about subtly misrepresenting people if it pushes your agenda. The difference is that you rarely get caught.
On January 14 2016 18:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Except i don't blantantly, intentionally misrepresent anyone when i am mafia.
What a weird thing to say......
No it's not, i literally will or would never ever intentionally conclude a post says the OPPOSITE it in fact does, which is what Palmar is saying here. That's just straight out retarded to assume so.
The thing is, as i clearly explained, that i misread one word in Xatalos' post. That doesn't make me anything, except for misreading a word.
and with the wave of a wand a misrepresentation becomes a misreading.
I am not a big fan of meta, but I recall you in multiple games being someone who doesn't think twice as mafia about subtly misrepresenting people if it pushes your agenda. The difference is that you rarely get caught.
feel free to argue this if you want to..
I don't need to argue facts man. It's you who must prove that this isn't so.
On January 14 2016 19:07 ritoky wrote: nearly 8 months and i think i can count the number of times my kid has slept silently through an entire night on 2 hands....fml
It gets better I promise.
probably gonna be a bit, wife wants a 2nd in the near future; and believe it or not "i want a good night's sleep" doesn't convince her to the contrary.
Good luck with that. Try the "worldwide overpopulation" argument, and if/when that fails try the "the world is a dark and depraved place and you don't want to bring another child here" argument. If both fail then your wife has no soul and you're doomed to have more babies.
Can you explain in further detail your read on Trfel?
On January 14 2016 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so you were talking about Trfel and DYH there. I somehow thought you were talking about ritoky.
I disagree with you. I don't think it's likely at all ritoky does that as mafia.
Could you explain? I don't really follow either of those points :/ Sadly.
I don't see why ritoky: 1).."makes enemies" with two townies 2)..does call his scumbuddy scum (yes he puts suspicion on DYH because if he is just gonna claim 100% associative read that's retarded and bullshit 100%)
..when he can just.. not to do that.
This is pointless and frankly just wrong defense.
clearly rayn is pushing an agenda here.
And this is just straight out bullshit Palmar. If you are gonna claim this is "wrong" then point out why it is wrong and why me making "wrong conclusion" is scummy. You are just saying shit without any substance.
I have explained it rayn, you're just barely reading the thread so you don't notice. You're making an associative read based on your own misrepresentation. If ritoky is not mafia, then this is not the reason he is not mafia.
Well I guess it's true that that's a pretty weak reason to townread ritoky... Is it still clearly an "agenda"? Would he stubbornly defend either his teammate or some random townie for no real benefit?
On January 14 2016 19:07 ritoky wrote: nearly 8 months and i think i can count the number of times my kid has slept silently through an entire night on 2 hands....fml
It gets better I promise.
probably gonna be a bit, wife wants a 2nd in the near future; and believe it or not "i want a good night's sleep" doesn't convince her to the contrary.
There's also a huge difference between "wakes up, so I grab the thing out of it's crib, stick it next to me wand we both fall asleep again" and "wakes up, cries between 3am and 5am, fml".
At 8 months you should be fairly close to the former scenario.
On January 14 2016 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so you were talking about Trfel and DYH there. I somehow thought you were talking about ritoky.
I disagree with you. I don't think it's likely at all ritoky does that as mafia.
Could you explain? I don't really follow either of those points :/ Sadly.
I don't see why ritoky: 1).."makes enemies" with two townies 2)..does call his scumbuddy scum (yes he puts suspicion on DYH because if he is just gonna claim 100% associative read that's retarded and bullshit 100%)
..when he can just.. not to do that.
This is pointless and frankly just wrong defense.
clearly rayn is pushing an agenda here.
And this is just straight out bullshit Palmar. If you are gonna claim this is "wrong" then point out why it is wrong and why me making "wrong conclusion" is scummy. You are just saying shit without any substance.
I have explained it rayn, you're just barely reading the thread so you don't notice. You're making an associative read based on your own misrepresentation. If ritoky is not mafia, then this is not the reason he is not mafia.
Well I guess it's true that that's a pretty weak reason to townread ritoky... Is it still clearly an "agenda"? Would he stubbornly defend either his teammate or some random townie for no real benefit?
The benefit would absolutely be there if I hadn't caught him.
rayn is on thin ice now and it's cracking. He's been caught on three different things now.
On January 14 2016 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so you were talking about Trfel and DYH there. I somehow thought you were talking about ritoky.
I disagree with you. I don't think it's likely at all ritoky does that as mafia.
Could you explain? I don't really follow either of those points :/ Sadly.
I don't see why ritoky: 1).."makes enemies" with two townies 2)..does call his scumbuddy scum (yes he puts suspicion on DYH because if he is just gonna claim 100% associative read that's retarded and bullshit 100%)
..when he can just.. not to do that.
This is pointless and frankly just wrong defense.
clearly rayn is pushing an agenda here.
And this is just straight out bullshit Palmar. If you are gonna claim this is "wrong" then point out why it is wrong and why me making "wrong conclusion" is scummy. You are just saying shit without any substance.
I have explained it rayn, you're just barely reading the thread so you don't notice. You're making an associative read based on your own misrepresentation. If ritoky is not mafia, then this is not the reason he is not mafia.
Well I guess it's true that that's a pretty weak reason to townread ritoky... Is it still clearly an "agenda"? Would he stubbornly defend either his teammate or some random townie for no real benefit?
No it isn't a weak reason. It's almost the same fucking reason i figured out Damdred was town in the last game, it stands true almost always. Because if ritoky is scum that is just bad scumplay.
There is no way he thinks I'm mafia when I'm bringing up thoughtful, insightful analysis to the thread. It's original research that is creating a ton of useful discussion, and yet he thinks I'm mafia for it.
I think people will soon be getting the grim picture this paints of rayn.
On January 14 2016 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so you were talking about Trfel and DYH there. I somehow thought you were talking about ritoky.
I disagree with you. I don't think it's likely at all ritoky does that as mafia.
Could you explain? I don't really follow either of those points :/ Sadly.
I don't see why ritoky: 1).."makes enemies" with two townies 2)..does call his scumbuddy scum (yes he puts suspicion on DYH because if he is just gonna claim 100% associative read that's retarded and bullshit 100%)
..when he can just.. not to do that.
This is pointless and frankly just wrong defense.
clearly rayn is pushing an agenda here.
And this is just straight out bullshit Palmar. If you are gonna claim this is "wrong" then point out why it is wrong and why me making "wrong conclusion" is scummy. You are just saying shit without any substance.
I have explained it rayn, you're just barely reading the thread so you don't notice. You're making an associative read based on your own misrepresentation. If ritoky is not mafia, then this is not the reason he is not mafia.
Well I guess it's true that that's a pretty weak reason to townread ritoky... Is it still clearly an "agenda"? Would he stubbornly defend either his teammate or some random townie for no real benefit?
No it isn't a weak reason. It's almost the same fucking reason i figured out Damdred was town in the last game, it stands true almost always. Because if ritoky is scum that is just bad scumplay.
I don't think that's necessarily the case... Like I explained, there are reasons why it would benefit him to say that in either case.
On January 14 2016 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so you were talking about Trfel and DYH there. I somehow thought you were talking about ritoky.
I disagree with you. I don't think it's likely at all ritoky does that as mafia.
Could you explain? I don't really follow either of those points :/ Sadly.
I don't see why ritoky: 1).."makes enemies" with two townies 2)..does call his scumbuddy scum (yes he puts suspicion on DYH because if he is just gonna claim 100% associative read that's retarded and bullshit 100%)
..when he can just.. not to do that.
This is pointless and frankly just wrong defense.
clearly rayn is pushing an agenda here.
And this is just straight out bullshit Palmar. If you are gonna claim this is "wrong" then point out why it is wrong and why me making "wrong conclusion" is scummy. You are just saying shit without any substance.
I have explained it rayn, you're just barely reading the thread so you don't notice. You're making an associative read based on your own misrepresentation. If ritoky is not mafia, then this is not the reason he is not mafia.
Well I guess it's true that that's a pretty weak reason to townread ritoky... Is it still clearly an "agenda"? Would he stubbornly defend either his teammate or some random townie for no real benefit?
No it isn't a weak reason. It's almost the same fucking reason i figured out Damdred was town in the last game, it stands true almost always. Because if ritoky is scum that is just bad scumplay.
I don't think that's necessarily the case... Like I explained, there are reasons why it would benefit him to say that in either case.
That's your conclusion. I disagree with it. Because i don't remember a similar case where i would have been wrong.
On January 14 2016 19:17 Palmar wrote: Actually, four different things.
There is no way he thinks I'm mafia when I'm bringing up thoughtful, insightful analysis to the thread. It's original research that is creating a ton of useful discussion, and yet he thinks I'm mafia for it.
I think people will soon be getting the grim picture this paints of rayn.
See here again...
Palmar says that that i am either mafia for calling his "thoughtful, insightful analysis" bullshit (which i have done), or if i agreed with him, well that would make me mafia too...
On January 14 2016 19:07 ritoky wrote: nearly 8 months and i think i can count the number of times my kid has slept silently through an entire night on 2 hands....fml
It gets better I promise.
probably gonna be a bit, wife wants a 2nd in the near future; and believe it or not "i want a good night's sleep" doesn't convince her to the contrary.
Good luck with that. Try the "worldwide overpopulation" argument, and if/when that fails try the "the world is a dark and depraved place and you don't want to bring another child here" argument. If both fail then your wife has no soul and you're doomed to have more babies.
Can you explain in further detail your read on Trfel?
On January 14 2016 19:12 ritoky wrote: rayn you wanted the associative shit explained right?
not really. I'd rather see you reconsider your read on Trfel based on what i said about his meta, since that's what your scumread on him is based on.
pretty much this is the read: i was mafia with trfel and town when he was mafia both recently. both times he came into the thread hot and focused on 1 particular issue in particular and got town reads because of it. in the most recent game where he was town he was much more mild and weak immediately upon entry. so from just that recent play perspective he is currently more mafia sided.
the other reason i made the read is i basically made some bullshit read on him last game that misrepresented a lot of his play and was just a load of turd. he corrected me saying his meta as mafia is far more aggro particularly early, he came in immediately somewhat aggro so i wanted to call him mafia and see how he carries it as opposed to last game where i bs'd him.
On January 14 2016 19:17 Palmar wrote: Actually, four different things.
There is no way he thinks I'm mafia when I'm bringing up thoughtful, insightful analysis to the thread. It's original research that is creating a ton of useful discussion, and yet he thinks I'm mafia for it.
I think people will soon be getting the grim picture this paints of rayn.
See here again...
Palmar says that that i am either mafia for calling his "thoughtful, insightful analysis" bullshit (which i have done), or if i agreed with him, well that would make me mafia too...
It works in both ways! IT'S LIKE MAGIC!
You are blatantly misrepresenting my point.
You can disagree with me, but you should not think I'm mafia (ie: vote) me because of it.
Like this is probably the most obvious instance of you intentionally trying to deceive the thread.
What I actually said:
"Rayn should be calling me mafia even if he disagrees, because my points are good"
What you're trying to convince people I said
"Rayn shouldn't disagree with me, because my points are good".
It will be interesting to see which people in the thread let this transgression slide instead of acting on it. It is one of the most slam dunk cases I have seen in recent history.
the whole associative thing is based on posts i make often as mafia when people talk about/ask me about my partners. often i will do this whole "oh that might be, let me think about it" or "hmmm i don't quite get it can you try to explain it differently" kinda posts. cuz if i am scum it makes me seem like i am in deep consideration when i am not or it allows me to stall for time, gauge thread sentiment, then "arrive at a conclusion" that is beneficial to me.
i realize that this is a massive case of projection, but w/e.
I'm not 100% sure, but when pushing a case it helps acting relatively confident to build support
rayn on the other hand has realized he needs to OMGUS me.
I am too good to not notice if he starts talking about other people now. I will be able to make associative alignment calls so easily. So his only real option is to try to turn things around on me. It's a smart play. It's not gonna work, but it's still the smartest play when he gets caught red handed like this.
On January 14 2016 19:17 Palmar wrote: Actually, four different things.
There is no way he thinks I'm mafia when I'm bringing up thoughtful, insightful analysis to the thread. It's original research that is creating a ton of useful discussion, and yet he thinks I'm mafia for it.
I think people will soon be getting the grim picture this paints of rayn.
See here again...
Palmar says that that i am either mafia for calling his "thoughtful, insightful analysis" bullshit (which i have done), or if i agreed with him, well that would make me mafia too...
It works in both ways! IT'S LIKE MAGIC!
You are blatantly misrepresenting my point.
You can disagree with me, but you should not think I'm mafia (ie: vote) me because of it.
Like this is probably the most obvious instance of you intentionally trying to deceive the thread.
What I actually said:
"Rayn should be calling me mafia even if he disagrees, because my points are good"
What you're trying to convince people I said
"Rayn shouldn't disagree with me, because my points are good".
It's subtle, but it's 100% accurate.
Nailed you scum
That is not what i am saying at all. I am suggesting your points on me are just you making my posts fit your invented narrative instead of trying to figure out why i actually post the stuff that i do and why do i make the conclusions i do and from which side it does make sense. You just say half-arsed things like the townread is "wrong" without ever pointing out WHY you think it is wrong, or WHY does me being wrong make me mafia.
I don't make "bullshit town cases" on people as mafia, you know that Palmar, you know that very well. Your suggestion that i am mafia -- and ritoky is town, is fucking absurd, because that's not how i play as scum. I would never make that read on town!ritoky if i was mafia, it just doesn't benefit me at all.
Just for clarification, this is the read i made on Damdred i talked about earlier, in the last invite game:
On December 12 2015 11:56 Damdred wrote: Kinda want to lynch everyone who hasn't posted now... But id lynch rels first
In a weird way this posy looks really really townie as it's... "Unclean"...
Like i get where Damdred is coming from but if you really look at this post all it says is " greymist and dp are town in my opinion". Eell idk if he inclydes marv in the people whi have posted but i think he doesn't.
Basically i would not think Damdred would word his thoughts like this if he was mafia since this wording is more likely to make enemies than saying "greymist and dp are town".
Then you have your Xatalos post misrepresentation shit. That doesn't make any sense at all since first of all you didn't even read my further elaboration on it. When people pointed out you are actually approaching the situation with false premises, instead of taking this into account and re-thinking your stance on the original accusation -- you make a stretch on saying "well you did that first, now you are just covering up when it didn't fly" which is literally just bull-fucking-shit. IT is pretty fucking clear that's NOT what i did, nor is it anything i would EVER do. Furthermore you add "oh he also misrepresented Ace" which i have literally NEVER EVER done.
And now, now you are saying i should conclude that your analysis are "thoughtful and insightful", and if i don't then i am ALSO mafia for that. No Palmar, your analysis are not thoughtful nor are they insightful. They are half-arsed and you are scum for it.
On January 14 2016 19:32 ritoky wrote: i do hear you about the looking for town versus pushing an agenda shit though rayn.
also why are you defending me btw? last i remember your read on me wasn't particularly good on day 1, i figured you'd be more hesitant.
I am giving out a read. I think you are town. I don't wanna lynch townies nor do i wanna consider townies as lynch targets. I'd rather talk about scum instead.
On January 14 2016 19:17 Palmar wrote: Actually, four different things.
There is no way he thinks I'm mafia when I'm bringing up thoughtful, insightful analysis to the thread. It's original research that is creating a ton of useful discussion, and yet he thinks I'm mafia for it.
I think people will soon be getting the grim picture this paints of rayn.
See here again...
Palmar says that that i am either mafia for calling his "thoughtful, insightful analysis" bullshit (which i have done), or if i agreed with him, well that would make me mafia too...
It works in both ways! IT'S LIKE MAGIC!
You are blatantly misrepresenting my point.
You can disagree with me, but you should not think I'm mafia (ie: vote) me because of it.
Like this is probably the most obvious instance of you intentionally trying to deceive the thread.
What I actually said:
"Rayn should be calling me mafia even if he disagrees, because my points are good"
What you're trying to convince people I said
"Rayn shouldn't disagree with me, because my points are good".
It's subtle, but it's 100% accurate.
Nailed you scum
That is not what i am saying at all. I am suggesting your points on me are just you making my posts fit your invented narrative instead of trying to figure out why i actually post the stuff that i do and why do i make the conclusions i do and from which side it does make sense.
No, that's NOT what you said, what you said was:
On January 14 2016 19:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar says that that i am either mafia for calling his "thoughtful, insightful analysis" bullshit (which i have done), or if i agreed with him, well that would make me mafia too...
Which is precisely what I said you had.
Lies: 1
On January 14 2016 19:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: You just say half-arsed things like the townread is "wrong" without ever pointing out WHY you think it is wrong, or WHY does me being wrong make me mafia.
I already explained it, it's not the reason ritoky is not mafia. Read before you criticize.
Lies: 2
On January 14 2016 19:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't make "bullshit town cases" on people as mafia, you know that Palmar, you know that very well.
Lies: 3
Rayn often makes completely insane cases on people (see XXX for example) when he's mafia.
On January 14 2016 19:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Your suggestion that i am mafia -- and ritoky is town, is fucking absurd,
I never said ritoky was town. I said he might be, and if he was, your reasoning was not the reason why. In fact, I was clearly skeptical on his alignment.
Lies: 4
On January 14 2016 19:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: because that's not how i play as scum. I would never make that read on town!ritoky if i was mafia, it just doesn't benefit me at all.
Sure it benefits you, if you get away with making an easy townread, either on scumbuddy or a townie, that's good for you.
Lies: 5
On January 14 2016 19:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Then you have your Xatalos post misrepresentation shit. That doesn't make any sense at all since first of all you didn't even read my further elaboration on it. When people pointed out you are actually approaching the situation with false premises, instead of taking this into account and re-thinking your stance on the original accusation -- you make a stretch on saying "well you did that first, now you are just covering up when it didn't fly" which is literally just bull-fucking-shit. IT is pretty fucking clear that's NOT what i did, nor is it anything i would EVER do.
This is not true, I was very clear from the beginning what I was saying, which is why VE immediately understood and actually compounded my arguments.
Lies: 6
On January 14 2016 19:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Furthermore you add "oh he also misrepresented Ace" which i have literally NEVER EVER done.
I explained how you did that it my post about the DOUBLE misrepresentation.
Lies: 7
On January 14 2016 19:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: And now, now you are saying i should conclude that your analysis are "thoughtful and insightful", and if i don't then i am ALSO mafia for that. No Palmar, your analysis are not thoughtful nor are they insightful. They are half-arsed and you are scum for it.
This is subjective, I believe people will appreciate my efforts here, but I cannot outright call it a lie, because it's not objectively false like most everything else you've written.
On January 14 2016 19:34 Palmar wrote: I'd like to hear both of your thoughts (rit, xat) on that latest development in rayn's dodgy posting. I broke down why he is guilty.
considering i thought your read on rayn was a long-con joke for probably 2 pages; i would say i am not particularly convinced. but perhaps your amazing intellect and subtle distinctions are too much for my half asleep 3 am brain. i doubt it.
gonna go out on a limb and say that rayn is probably just town for defending me, even though it's the firs time it's ever happened and it sketches me out a bit. only real reason to do something like that as mafia that early is to establish a pocket on me; and i don't think rayn values my town play enough to go out of the way to pocket me there. plus my argument is very self-centered and as has been established in the thread "i give no fucks what anyone says".
Well... Probably both rayn and Palmar aren't scum. They could still both be town, I guess.
What got me thinking about Palmar a bit is how he similarly made a sudden push on sandroba here (as scum): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/484076-assassination-mafia?page=54#1077 It didn't seem to make any sense there either as scum. So I guess it's not impossible he could try something similar here? It feels so stupid though... Bringing so much attention to himself. In that game many of the scumteam were in a tough spot already, so it made at least SOME sense as a distraction, but... Here? It seems even more stupid. Unless the scumteam was somehow in dire straits, which shouldn't be the case when nobody is even really being voted or anything...
As for rayn, it slightly disturbs me how he seems to come to conclusions with a somewhat flimsy basis. Like the ritoky townread (IMO), or the Palmar scumread... Although that makes a bit more sense, I guess, since it's true that Palmar misrepresented some things (like the point about rayn's comment on my post). I'd rather not talk about my heuristic for now, but I'll just say that its result is uncertain for now.
On January 14 2016 19:34 Palmar wrote: I'd like to hear both of your thoughts (rit, xat) on that latest development in rayn's dodgy posting. I broke down why he is guilty.
considering i thought your read on rayn was a long-con joke for probably 2 pages; i would say i am not particularly convinced. but perhaps your amazing intellect and subtle distinctions are too much for my half asleep 3 am brain. i doubt it.
gonna go out on a limb and say that rayn is probably just town for defending me, even though it's the firs time it's ever happened and it sketches me out a bit. only real reason to do something like that as mafia that early is to establish a pocket on me; and i don't think rayn values my town play enough to go out of the way to pocket me there. plus my argument is very self-centered and as has been established in the thread "i give no fucks what anyone says".
Lolz, I thought it was a joke for quite a while too
I consider myself answered reasonably unless Palmar wants to explain why does my read on ritoky, regardless of if i am right or wrong, make me mafia. "wrong reasons" is not a reasonable answer.
Again, the argument about Xatalos post is just bullshit and i don't care how he is going to try to push it.
The argument about me thinking he is mafia is also bullshit since this is one of the two ways Palmar approaches me when he is scum. He makes it 1v1 and i am willing to take the challenge. I don't care if i get lynched. If i do, i will make sure the last hours of D1 is me finding every single bit of proof and explaining myself as clearly as possible why he is scum.
On January 14 2016 20:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: I consider myself answered reasonably unless Palmar wants to explain why does my read on ritoky, regardless of if i am right or wrong, make me mafia. "wrong reasons" is not a reasonable answer.
Again, the argument about Xatalos post is just bullshit and i don't care how he is going to try to push it.
The argument about me thinking he is mafia is also bullshit since this is one of the two ways Palmar approaches me when he is scum. He makes it 1v1 and i am willing to take the challenge. I don't care if i get lynched. If i do, i will make sure the last hours of D1 is me finding every single bit of proof and explaining myself as clearly as possible why he is scum.
On January 14 2016 18:37 Xatalos wrote: I guess so...
VE: I also didn't really like the things ritoky was pushing. It was just the way he posted that made me think he could be town after all. He was so bold and didn't really seem to care what others thought of him. Fits better with a town mindset.
This is basically the same thing i said except you used different words...
On January 14 2016 20:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: I consider myself answered reasonably unless Palmar wants to explain why does my read on ritoky, regardless of if i am right or wrong, make me mafia. "wrong reasons" is not a reasonable answer.
Again, the argument about Xatalos post is just bullshit and i don't care how he is going to try to push it.
The argument about me thinking he is mafia is also bullshit since this is one of the two ways Palmar approaches me when he is scum. He makes it 1v1 and i am willing to take the challenge. I don't care if i get lynched. If i do, i will make sure the last hours of D1 is me finding every single bit of proof and explaining myself as clearly as possible why he is scum.
I have never engaged you 1v1 as mafia.
If i prove this to be incorrect do you agree you are scum?
On January 14 2016 20:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: I consider myself answered reasonably unless Palmar wants to explain why does my read on ritoky, regardless of if i am right or wrong, make me mafia. "wrong reasons" is not a reasonable answer.
Again, the argument about Xatalos post is just bullshit and i don't care how he is going to try to push it.
The argument about me thinking he is mafia is also bullshit since this is one of the two ways Palmar approaches me when he is scum. He makes it 1v1 and i am willing to take the challenge. I don't care if i get lynched. If i do, i will make sure the last hours of D1 is me finding every single bit of proof and explaining myself as clearly as possible why he is scum.
I have never engaged you 1v1 as mafia.
If i prove this to be incorrect do you agree you are scum?
I cannot agree I am scum, but feel free to prove me wrong.
This is, yet again, you just making up things as we go.
I know that very well, are you again not reading very well?
On January 14 2016 20:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: The argument about me thinking he is mafia is also bullshit since this is one of the two ways Palmar approaches me when he is scum. He makes it 1v1 and i am willing to take the challenge. I don't care if i get lynched. If i do, i will make sure the last hours of D1 is me finding every single bit of proof and explaining myself as clearly as possible why he is scum.
tsk tsk...
I repeat my question, if i prove you have 1v1'd me as scum do you agree you are scum?
On January 14 2016 20:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: The argument about me thinking he is mafia is also bullshit since this is one of the two ways Palmar approaches me when he is scum. He makes it 1v1 and i am willing to take the challenge. I don't care if i get lynched. If i do, i will make sure the last hours of D1 is me finding every single bit of proof and explaining myself as clearly as possible why he is scum.
tsk tsk...
I repeat my question, if i prove you have 1v1'd me as scum do you agree you are scum?
On January 14 2016 18:37 Xatalos wrote: I guess so...
VE: I also didn't really like the things ritoky was pushing. It was just the way he posted that made me think he could be town after all. He was so bold and didn't really seem to care what others thought of him. Fits better with a town mindset.
This is basically the same thing i said except you used different words...
That "I guess so..." was just referring to your "We'll see" post.
And I don't think it's quite the same thing to say that ritoky was doing boldly whatever he wanted, or that it didn't make sense for scum ritoky to make the association read. It's pretty different actually.
Another game is the big game that started after XXX which for some reason is not in the database, where you attacked me straight up from the start of the game (we were even BOTH fucking mafia and i told you in scum QT there is nothing wrong with what i said).
In both situations you failed to read the ACTUAL motivation behind my posts, and think behind the words.
so instead of looking at a recent game you dig up a very old game with two different mafia families (giving me a completely different mindset than the perfect information available to me as normal scum), and another one where I WAS FUCKING MAFIA WITH YOU (I do not remember this one).
How either of those are relevant is beyond me.
Your efforts are laughable. You try to discredit me and it only makes me stronger. I'm the fucking Donald Trump of mafia.
The only thing i am going to say is that Thug life game is pretty much the same as here. Where you take certain posts of mine out of the context and/or invent a conclusion and then start putting things into place so they fit. FYI it's one of the best cases i have ever made in that game, because it actually showed a complete lack of critical thinking from you.
On January 14 2016 19:07 ritoky wrote: nearly 8 months and i think i can count the number of times my kid has slept silently through an entire night on 2 hands....fml
It gets better I promise.
probably gonna be a bit, wife wants a 2nd in the near future; and believe it or not "i want a good night's sleep" doesn't convince her to the contrary.
Good luck with that. Try the "worldwide overpopulation" argument, and if/when that fails try the "the world is a dark and depraved place and you don't want to bring another child here" argument. If both fail then your wife has no soul and you're doomed to have more babies.
Can you explain in further detail your read on Trfel?
On January 14 2016 19:12 ritoky wrote: rayn you wanted the associative shit explained right?
not really. I'd rather see you reconsider your read on Trfel based on what i said about his meta, since that's what your scumread on him is based on.
pretty much this is the read: i was mafia with trfel and town when he was mafia both recently. both times he came into the thread hot and focused on 1 particular issue in particular and got town reads because of it. in the most recent game where he was town he was much more mild and weak immediately upon entry. so from just that recent play perspective he is currently more mafia sided.
the other reason i made the read is i basically made some bullshit read on him last game that misrepresented a lot of his play and was just a load of turd. he corrected me saying his meta as mafia is far more aggro particularly early, he came in immediately somewhat aggro so i wanted to call him mafia and see how he carries it as opposed to last game where i bs'd him.
So do you still agree with your earlier read? Did you even look at my post where i disagree with you?
On January 14 2016 20:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: The only thing i am going to say is that Thug life game is pretty much the same as here. Where you take certain posts of mine out of the context and/or invent a conclusion and then start putting things into place so they fit. FYI it's one of the best cases i have ever made in that game, because it actually showed a complete lack of critical thinking from you.
On January 14 2016 20:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: The only thing i am going to say is that Thug life game is pretty much the same as here. Where you take certain posts of mine out of the context and/or invent a conclusion and then start putting things into place so they fit. FYI it's one of the best cases i have ever made in that game, because it actually showed a complete lack of critical thinking from you.
Palmar showed a complete lack of critical thinking when he agreed with me about rayn I think. No offense Palmar, but what I said was kinda dumb. I was, admittedly, a little high.
On January 14 2016 19:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Then you have your Xatalos post misrepresentation shit. That doesn't make any sense at all since first of all you didn't even read my further elaboration on it. When people pointed out you are actually approaching the situation with false premises, instead of taking this into account and re-thinking your stance on the original accusation -- you make a stretch on saying "well you did that first, now you are just covering up when it didn't fly" which is literally just bull-fucking-shit. IT is pretty fucking clear that's NOT what i did, nor is it anything i would EVER do.
This is not true, I was very clear from the beginning what I was saying, which is why VE immediately understood and actually compounded my arguments.
To be perfectly honest Palmar, i love to argue with you especially when i am almost definitely sure you are scum! So bring it on! Let's do the dance <3
On January 14 2016 19:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Then you have your Xatalos post misrepresentation shit. That doesn't make any sense at all since first of all you didn't even read my further elaboration on it. When people pointed out you are actually approaching the situation with false premises, instead of taking this into account and re-thinking your stance on the original accusation -- you make a stretch on saying "well you did that first, now you are just covering up when it didn't fly" which is literally just bull-fucking-shit. IT is pretty fucking clear that's NOT what i did, nor is it anything i would EVER do.
This is not true, I was very clear from the beginning what I was saying, which is why VE immediately understood and actually compounded my arguments.
I would say Xatalos is probably town for not thinking I'm town. I feel like as mafia he would have taken my token activity and my indirect involvement with the rayn/Palmar thing as an excuse to call me town.
On January 14 2016 18:37 Xatalos wrote: I guess so...
VE: I also didn't really like the things ritoky was pushing. It was just the way he posted that made me think he could be town after all. He was so bold and didn't really seem to care what others thought of him. Fits better with a town mindset.
This describes ritoky as either alignment as far as I'm aware.
Really? Hm...
I mean, have you ever read a game where ritoky gives a shit what anyone thinks?
Xatalos did you agree with this or not? If you didn't, why aren't you investigating into this further?
Will Not Lynch Today VE ritoky rayn Trfel Palmar DYH Xatalos Would Consider Lynching Ace marv Damdred My Lynch Preference Alot
I prefer Alot because he's one of the only players to pop in and actually give an unreasoned opinion and then fade into the background. Most everyone has struck up some sort of conversation with someone and Alot did not. Maybe he had something else to do, or maybe he went to bed, or whatever. But I just didn't like the way he just sorta faded into obscurity after his throwaway opinions.
So yeah. I'm headed to bed. If anyone wants my reasons for why people are where they are on my list, then ask and I'll maybe eventually get to it. For the most part though you should probably just accept that I have reasons that I didn't provide and they're good ones.
marv is there because he's known to literally not play at all as mafia on D1 making for a thoroughly uninspired experience. That he hasn't posted is in line with that, but could just as easily be him just not having been here yet.
On January 14 2016 18:37 Xatalos wrote: I guess so...
VE: I also didn't really like the things ritoky was pushing. It was just the way he posted that made me think he could be town after all. He was so bold and didn't really seem to care what others thought of him. Fits better with a town mindset.
This describes ritoky as either alignment as far as I'm aware.
Really? Hm...
I mean, have you ever read a game where ritoky gives a shit what anyone thinks?
Xatalos did you agree with this or not? If you didn't, why aren't you investigating into this further?
Not sure if that's the case and got sidetracked from the issue earlier.
Now that you brought that up... VE, would be nice if you linked to a scum ritoky game where he didn't care about appearances?
On January 14 2016 18:37 Xatalos wrote: I guess so...
VE: I also didn't really like the things ritoky was pushing. It was just the way he posted that made me think he could be town after all. He was so bold and didn't really seem to care what others thought of him. Fits better with a town mindset.
This describes ritoky as either alignment as far as I'm aware.
Really? Hm...
I mean, have you ever read a game where ritoky gives a shit what anyone thinks?
Xatalos did you agree with this or not? If you didn't, why aren't you investigating into this further?
Not sure if that's the case and got sidetracked from the issue earlier.
Now that you brought that up... VE, would be nice if you linked to a scum ritoky game where he didn't care about appearances?
I can't think of any specifically, that's just my recollection of his general demeanor. If you think I'm wrong feel free to check yourself, but for my part I'm basing my read on it.
Well don't worry. I'll prove my case later. I am gonna see people's stances on it first. I am not in a rush and Plammer is not the only scum in the game.
On January 14 2016 18:37 Xatalos wrote: I guess so...
VE: I also didn't really like the things ritoky was pushing. It was just the way he posted that made me think he could be town after all. He was so bold and didn't really seem to care what others thought of him. Fits better with a town mindset.
This describes ritoky as either alignment as far as I'm aware.
Really? Hm...
I mean, have you ever read a game where ritoky gives a shit what anyone thinks?
Xatalos did you agree with this or not? If you didn't, why aren't you investigating into this further?
Not sure if that's the case and got sidetracked from the issue earlier.
Now that you brought that up... VE, would be nice if you linked to a scum ritoky game where he didn't care about appearances?
I can't think of any specifically, that's just my recollection of his general demeanor. If you think I'm wrong feel free to check yourself, but for my part I'm basing my read on it.
Or rather, I'm NOT basing my read on what YOU said, because it's NAI fmp. I'm basing it on my reason.
Well, I think marv is probably just AFK. If he was here as scum, I'd think he would have at least posted something.
No idea about Alot. Not the worst lynch option, I guess.
HF's ninjavote still baffles me. Just what is he doing.. But he's been really good as scum from what I remember, so I somehow doubt this is his scum master plan.
But in fairness I'm not really trying to convince you he's mafia right now either, so I'm disinclined to comply anyway because I don't want to lynch him today.
Holyflare is busy with work, which is why he originally replaced instead of playing. You should at least wait for the night in Europe before you make any judgements on him.
Game is aborted and a reroll will take place tonight. Marvellosity will be replaced by NocturneMage in the reroll. My sincerest apologies to all players that put in effort already.
On January 14 2016 22:37 VisceraEyes wrote: Will Not Lynch Today VE ritoky rayn Trfel Palmar DYH Xatalos Would Consider Lynching Ace marv Damdred My Lynch Preference Alot
I prefer Alot because he's one of the only players to pop in and actually give an unreasoned opinion and then fade into the background. Most everyone has struck up some sort of conversation with someone and Alot did not. Maybe he had something else to do, or maybe he went to bed, or whatever. But I just didn't like the way he just sorta faded into obscurity after his throwaway opinions.
So yeah. I'm headed to bed. If anyone wants my reasons for why people are where they are on my list, then ask and I'll maybe eventually get to it. For the most part though you should probably just accept that I have reasons that I didn't provide and they're good ones.
Overall I don't think this list is bad. Wouldn't lynch either marv or HF for the time being though, and probably not during D1 anyway.
On January 14 2016 23:04 Xatalos wrote: Oh yes, my meta heuristic on rayn was actually initially right :D I just lost faith on the journey.
I don't believe that was. But we'll see about that. I fucked up on something but never on anything Palmar said.
I was sure Palmar was at least partly trolling during all of this Oo
Maybe, maybe not. I would have answered the same way as town and voted for him since there was actually nothing in what he said that made me mafia since he wasn't really thinking properly.
On January 15 2016 01:15 marvellosity wrote: sorry not sorry for wanting the 59/60 probability of actually rolling town with a bunch of people who will try in invite games
actually sorry for wasting people's time.
It's for the best, I nailed rayn and would've nailed you within 3 posts.
On January 14 2016 22:42 VisceraEyes wrote: marv is there because he's known to literally not play at all as mafia on D1 making for a thoroughly uninspired experience. That he hasn't posted is in line with that, but could just as easily be him just not having been here yet.
On January 14 2016 19:17 Palmar wrote: Actually, four different things.
There is no way he thinks I'm mafia when I'm bringing up thoughtful, insightful analysis to the thread. It's original research that is creating a ton of useful discussion, and yet he thinks I'm mafia for it.
I think people will soon be getting the grim picture this paints of rayn.
See here again...
Palmar says that that i am either mafia for calling his "thoughtful, insightful analysis" bullshit (which i have done), or if i agreed with him, well that would make me mafia too...
It works in both ways! IT'S LIKE MAGIC!
You are blatantly misrepresenting my point.
You can disagree with me, but you should not think I'm mafia (ie: vote) me because of it.
Like this is probably the most obvious instance of you intentionally trying to deceive the thread.
What I actually said:
"Rayn should be calling me mafia even if he disagrees, because my points are good"
What you're trying to convince people I said
"Rayn shouldn't disagree with me, because my points are good".
It's subtle, but it's 100% accurate.
Nailed you scum
That is not what i am saying at all. I am suggesting your points on me are just you making my posts fit your invented narrative instead of trying to figure out why i actually post the stuff that i do and why do i make the conclusions i do and from which side it does make sense. You just say half-arsed things like the townread is "wrong" without ever pointing out WHY you think it is wrong, or WHY does me being wrong make me mafia.
I don't make "bullshit town cases" on people as mafia, you know that Palmar, you know that very well. Your suggestion that i am mafia -- and ritoky is town, is fucking absurd, because that's not how i play as scum. I would never make that read on town!ritoky if i was mafia, it just doesn't benefit me at all.
Just for clarification, this is the read i made on Damdred i talked about earlier, in the last invite game:
On December 12 2015 11:56 Damdred wrote: Kinda want to lynch everyone who hasn't posted now... But id lynch rels first
In a weird way this posy looks really really townie as it's... "Unclean"...
Like i get where Damdred is coming from but if you really look at this post all it says is " greymist and dp are town in my opinion". Eell idk if he inclydes marv in the people whi have posted but i think he doesn't.
Basically i would not think Damdred would word his thoughts like this if he was mafia since this wording is more likely to make enemies than saying "greymist and dp are town".
Then you have your Xatalos post misrepresentation shit. That doesn't make any sense at all since first of all you didn't even read my further elaboration on it. When people pointed out you are actually approaching the situation with false premises, instead of taking this into account and re-thinking your stance on the original accusation -- you make a stretch on saying "well you did that first, now you are just covering up when it didn't fly" which is literally just bull-fucking-shit. IT is pretty fucking clear that's NOT what i did, nor is it anything i would EVER do. Furthermore you add "oh he also misrepresented Ace" which i have literally NEVER EVER done.
And now, now you are saying i should conclude that your analysis are "thoughtful and insightful", and if i don't then i am ALSO mafia for that. No Palmar, your analysis are not thoughtful nor are they insightful. They are half-arsed and you are scum for it.
On January 14 2016 19:17 Palmar wrote: Actually, four different things.
There is no way he thinks I'm mafia when I'm bringing up thoughtful, insightful analysis to the thread. It's original research that is creating a ton of useful discussion, and yet he thinks I'm mafia for it.
I think people will soon be getting the grim picture this paints of rayn.
See here again...
Palmar says that that i am either mafia for calling his "thoughtful, insightful analysis" bullshit (which i have done), or if i agreed with him, well that would make me mafia too...
It works in both ways! IT'S LIKE MAGIC!
You are blatantly misrepresenting my point.
You can disagree with me, but you should not think I'm mafia (ie: vote) me because of it.
Like this is probably the most obvious instance of you intentionally trying to deceive the thread.
What I actually said:
"Rayn should be calling me mafia even if he disagrees, because my points are good"
What you're trying to convince people I said
"Rayn shouldn't disagree with me, because my points are good".
It's subtle, but it's 100% accurate.
Nailed you scum
That is not what i am saying at all. I am suggesting your points on me are just you making my posts fit your invented narrative instead of trying to figure out why i actually post the stuff that i do and why do i make the conclusions i do and from which side it does make sense. You just say half-arsed things like the townread is "wrong" without ever pointing out WHY you think it is wrong, or WHY does me being wrong make me mafia.
I don't make "bullshit town cases" on people as mafia, you know that Palmar, you know that very well. Your suggestion that i am mafia -- and ritoky is town, is fucking absurd, because that's not how i play as scum. I would never make that read on town!ritoky if i was mafia, it just doesn't benefit me at all.
Just for clarification, this is the read i made on Damdred i talked about earlier, in the last invite game:
On December 12 2015 13:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On December 12 2015 11:56 Damdred wrote: Kinda want to lynch everyone who hasn't posted now... But id lynch rels first
In a weird way this posy looks really really townie as it's... "Unclean"...
Like i get where Damdred is coming from but if you really look at this post all it says is " greymist and dp are town in my opinion". Eell idk if he inclydes marv in the people whi have posted but i think he doesn't.
Basically i would not think Damdred would word his thoughts like this if he was mafia since this wording is more likely to make enemies than saying "greymist and dp are town".
Then you have your Xatalos post misrepresentation shit. That doesn't make any sense at all since first of all you didn't even read my further elaboration on it. When people pointed out you are actually approaching the situation with false premises, instead of taking this into account and re-thinking your stance on the original accusation -- you make a stretch on saying "well you did that first, now you are just covering up when it didn't fly" which is literally just bull-fucking-shit. IT is pretty fucking clear that's NOT what i did, nor is it anything i would EVER do. Furthermore you add "oh he also misrepresented Ace" which i have literally NEVER EVER done.
And now, now you are saying i should conclude that your analysis are "thoughtful and insightful", and if i don't then i am ALSO mafia for that. No Palmar, your analysis are not thoughtful nor are they insightful. They are half-arsed and you are scum for it.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLmafia_new.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1ncnJo3.png)
. Tried to make it as skill-based as possible.
![[image loading]](https://33.media.tumblr.com/8274308d4521f610ed7886e2e4bf2896/tumblr_ntd4w6F62h1uryk84o1_250.gif)
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<3
