Anyhow let me talk more about my reasoning. I might be new to forum mafia, but I think I know how a gunsmith should work.
I came into this game after Tictock got lynched, replaced in but only started playing as the shot deliberation was heating up. ritoky being the shooter drew my attention because having observed Gaiden and seeing how gunsmith shots in that game were directed, there's a stark contrast in how those people played gunsmith and how ritoky played his shot.
In Gaiden, LS gunned his target and in that game the armed vig wanted to say "fuck the town I'm doing whatever the fuck I want" and shoot the person of her choice instead of whom town wanted her to shoot. Ultimately she cowered and shot whom the town wanted her to shoot but then she comes out and said she wanted to shoot her choice and she said she would have gladly taken a policy lynch (responsibility) if she was wrong. She was willing to trade herself in if she was wrong and put her money where her mouth was.
The same thing I think happened with geript or whoever got the gun the following night. ICRE.
But here, I'm reading this conversation. I'm reading ritoky's filter left right centre as a whole. The read progression is skewered to begin with, but I really don't understand why anyone would shoot a townread unless the town screamed it.
I don't understand why you'd trust someone's reads and then not put the right proportion (the shot) to whom that person was pushing. I spent a lot of time in Holyflare's filter too given his reputation and that also jumped out at me.
Holyflare pushed Slam, ritoky had slam in there but shoots a townread?
And then says he trust someone else? To me that appears like he's trying to place blame on someone else. Like that's so mafia indicative it's not even funny.
On January 08 2016 02:07 Damdred wrote: Exo v Shining looks town vs town as I read it. So yeah both of them going bro fuck you for misunderstanding and getting emo looks town.
I like that read. Both can go back to lock town.
Which makes the game harder because I want to town read nm also.
ows off the table today but possible scum still hrm.
Then got the group of oo, palmar, ritoky, kush, slam.
The way we are voting is a bit nerve racking with everyone piling up but I can't really contest slam I've seen him just leave like this as town and scum which makes this suck even more.
Why is onegu clear?
I don't think scum onegu goes 1 v 1 at that point.
What are you on about kush he did claim something his target flipped green highly likely to be shot or lynched the next day. If he's scum he trades himself 1 v 1 with tt.
On January 08 2016 02:26 Damdred wrote: What are you on about kush he did claim something his target flipped green highly likely to be shot or lynched the next day. If he's scum he trades himself 1 v 1 with tt.
So he lied about it. And you still think he's town. How was that a 1v1
Like my formatting is utter shit because TL is being a pain in the ass right now, so I'll repeat this post again.
Holyflare pushed Slam, ritoky had slam in there but shoots a townread?
And then says he trust someone else? To me that appears like he's trying to place blame on someone else. Like that's so mafia indicative it's not even funny.
This is just the opposite of what happened with the VTs who got armed in Gaiden.
In general placing blame and misallocated blame for that matter is mafia indicative.
I really want ritoky to answer my questions, I have no idea with the time difference but I kinda want people to discuss this.
I will be staying up for end of cycle. But I have to afk for now.
The other thing I really hate about ritoky is that is filter is a shittonne of trolling. I mean, a shittonne. Like stratospheric level.
I realise it's tone, but there's been just stupid levels of it days 1 and day 3 that at best hampers town trying to read the thread and at worst disrupts people trying to play the game.
On January 08 2016 02:26 Damdred wrote: What are you on about kush he did claim something his target flipped green highly likely to be shot or lynched the next day. If he's scum he trades himself 1 v 1 with tt.
So he lied about it. And you still think he's town. How was that a 1v1
On January 08 2016 02:31 NocturneMage wrote: The other thing I really hate about ritoky is that is filter is a shittonne of trolling. I mean, a shittonne. Like stratospheric level.
I realise it's tone, but there's been just stupid levels of it days 1 and day 3 that at best hampers town trying to read the thread and at worst disrupts people trying to play the game.
This can't be town motivated. Seriously.
not true rit trolls all the time as time at any point
Alright, fair enough on the tone argument but I still want to hear what he says because the shit he said he based his decision on doesn't line up. At all.
On January 08 2016 02:26 Damdred wrote: What are you on about kush he did claim something his target flipped green highly likely to be shot or lynched the next day. If he's scum he trades himself 1 v 1 with tt.
So he lied about it. And you still think he's town. How was that a 1v1
I like the csse but I think ritoky is town. When someone makes a list like that it's not set in stone. Moosey wasn't a hard townread. He wanted to shoot an unreadable.
On January 08 2016 02:50 nooniansoong wrote: I like the csse but I think ritoky is town. When someone makes a list like that it's not set in stone. Moosey wasn't a hard townread. He wanted to shoot an unreadable.
But here's the catch - why did he allude to both HIS reads and Holyflare's reads as the basis
AND
Why did he say I put all my trust in Holyflare's reads (paraphrasing).
Instead -
Why didn't he just come out and say "I wanted to say fuck it and shoot an unreadable"
Do you see what I am getting at?
Do you see why I'm contrasting this to what I saw in Gaiden?
On January 08 2016 02:50 nooniansoong wrote: I like the csse but I think ritoky is town. When someone makes a list like that it's not set in stone. Moosey wasn't a hard townread. He wanted to shoot an unreadable.
On January 08 2016 03:00 NocturneMage wrote: But here's the catch - why did he allude to both HIS reads and Holyflare's reads as the basis
AND
Why did he say I put all my trust in Holyflare's reads (paraphrasing).
Instead -
Why didn't he just come out and say "I wanted to say fuck it and shoot an unreadable"
Do you see what I am getting at?
Do you see why I'm contrasting this to what I saw in Gaiden?
Also Noon, I have one more thing....you are saying that's a list not set in stone.
Well here's the thing. I presented Moosy's content between that list AND the day post.
Nothing jumps out to me in there one way or another.
On January 06 2016 13:17 The Shining wrote: See above for why I think NM is possibly likely to be town out of those 6. The only reason he's not in my town list is because I had an initial scumread on Ness and NM has only mentioned me once in his filter, which was to say my Mon/Tues activity, or lack thereof, is NAI. I'm not sure if it's because of my lack of activity, or because he doesn't want to awaken the sleeping beast that is a tryhard town Shining by trying to push me. But he hasn't read me either way and I'd really like him to do so before this phase ends.
You don't give reasoning for why NM is most likely town, especially since Ness was a scumread.
It was a super weak meta read because even though he's been catching up a lot and behind until recently, he's throwing reads and questions out there, which felt like town NM. But it wasn't strong enough to take him off my POE. That, plus my scum read on Ness is why he wasn't in my town list. He just wasn't as scummy as others on my list and there are 4 scum left,not 6, so I was giving him a pass to catch up.
Now that he's posted a case on ritoky, I'm wondering if scum NM would be bold enough to target ritoky and the case doesn't look half bad to me. But the NM meta goes out the window now that I know he upped his scum game quite a bit in the last Student game. Activity and being disconnected is no longer a viable scum meta for him, since he was considered a town leader as scum in that game.
Tldr NM could still very well be scum and even though some of the points against ritoky are valid, they don't necessarily make ritoky scum.
And due to ritoky and NMs reads on me, one is probably scum. I don't like that ritoky keeps TRing me because Damdred said so. It's true he calls me scum 100% of the time but just because someone else thinks I'm town shouldn't mean he thinks I'm town if he can't find anything townie in my filter.
NMs town read of me is basically "his play looks like it did in Dark Tournament." But I essentially solved that game. NM exactly what similarities do you see between that game and this one?
Anyone else should feel free to compare those two games and see if NM is just giving me a free TR. I am town, but even I feel like I'm not playing the way I was in that game.
So the category is Night Kills and before I ask the question, I want to present to ritoky a few "exhibits" of information that I found in his filter and in the thread.
On January 03 2016 08:10 Damdred wrote: Like break it down for me you have already said you can't have me in lylo because you will lymch me. But you shoot moosey when a few are telling you he could be town men.
So why moosey over me and why not hold the shot to give us an extra lymch you were worried about.
On January 03 2016 08:11 ritoky wrote: because i read you town, and i figured if 1 of you and onegu is mafia or both are mafia, then i am getting roleblocked and i know it. if both of you are town they are gonna let my bullet through so i started working on other people to shoot. and between myself and hf i arrived at moosy and slam. i sent about 9 pms to the mods....i really wish i had shot slam now.
On January 03 2016 08:13 Damdred wrote: But of you think I'm town why not listen to my read because you should know I'm good at reading moosey.
God that read about him not missing the vote as scum blah
On January 03 2016 08:13 Damdred wrote: But of you think I'm town why not listen to my read because you should know I'm good at reading moosey.
God that read about him not missing the vote as scum blah
On January 03 2016 08:15 ritoky wrote: because i was realllllly sure hf was town and i had a lot of faith that he isn't this wrong as town so i trusted his reads the most
Exhibit 4: MoosyDoosy Night 2 I have read in between the time ritoky made his list post and the day post for anything Moosy may have posted to examine a town motivation for shooting Moosy or something that might have changed his mind. The only thing I found was this (spoilered.)
On December 30 2015 12:31 ObviousOne wrote: any filters people want me to pay attention to?
Nooniansong.
Palmar was talked about and scummed by Artanis before NK.
BF was recently talked about if you want to weigh in on that.
Moosy is always fun if you want to say WTF to yourself multiple times.
K I'm out
loool thnx and ur scum <333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
On January 02 2016 18:58 MoosyDoosy wrote: Koshi is town
^^ these are notes for myself when I read through my filter btw
On December 30 2015 13:33 ObviousOne wrote: and finally regarding moosy and his also-suidical level of play i say we have someone with a gun shoot him or we just pretend he doesn't exist.
it's dawning on my how many people are giving so few fucks in a non-banlist game, the last time i was in this scenario was a caller game where everyone had guns.
Can you post some reads you feel strongly about? Even if they are TRs. I would like something that isn't maybe this, maybe that.
Why would you prefer an afk be shot instead of someone who you scum read? And why moosy over BF/slam/ness anything in particular distinguish 1 of the unengaged over the other?
slam is prob town koshi is prob town gb feels different from how he was in haunted mansion mini (where he was town) but not necessarily in a scum way, and i like his war with HF which makes me think town ness prob town
moosy SHOULD be considered mafia for his behavior which is why he should be shot. we don't waste a lynch where we get no real information and the game gets more solvable
no idea how to read hf, too much post not gonna bother unless its absolutely necessary
ows filter feels like it's full of air, so much oneliner stuff, striking me as someone who is providing commentary rather than content. need to reread after a few more flips.
honestly it's just about 99.99% sure that i'm town but ok.
Exhibit 5: Night 2 Reads - Holyflare (spoilered)
This is how Holyflare was trying to direct the kill.
On January 02 2016 09:00 ritoky wrote: tbh i am mad....that might be because the ibuprofen didn't kill the headache or cuz of this mess; but stop with the woe is me shit if you're town; i gotta figure out this pile of mess in 23 hours.
They're both probably town there's nothing to work out. Shoot slam please.
On January 02 2016 11:21 Holyflare wrote: Slam/GB/Moosy are all good shot targets
On January 02 2016 11:45 Holyflare wrote: Game is easy:
Sl/trfel/palmar (red checked by koshi or kush depending)/kush (just look at this post below if he's not cop) +1
On December 30 2015 21:16 nooniansoong wrote: I'm taking tt being red pretty hard. Second game in a row i too easily towned him. Bf...I'm conflicted. His logic is so weird. Too weird to be scum maybe?
Here's some self meta for you guys that suspect me. If I were scum there's no way I would have read this whole game.
Basically i like your list
Forgot slam he's mafia.
So here are my questions.
(1) You had a slight town read on Moosy and I posted I think most if not all the content on him between the time of your list post and the day post. What changed regarding Moosy to the point you shot him?
(2) When Damdred asked you why you shot Moosy, you resorted to your reads between yourself (Exhibit 1) and Holyflare (Exhibit 5). Except that you townread MoosyDoosy, even if slightly. Why would you shoot a townread?
(3) When Damdred asked you why you shot Moosy, you said you trusted Holyflare's reads (Exhibits 3 and 5). I tried to cover all pushes and direction by Holyflare from the time Tictock died to the day post. He mentioned Moosy ONCE. He pushed Alakaslam comparatively disporportionately (Exhibit 5). So how did you work out that Holyflare wanted Moosy over Slam dead? This is what you said.
On January 03 2016 08:11 ritoky wrote: because i read you town, and i figured if 1 of you and onegu is mafia or both are mafia, then i am getting roleblocked and i know it. if both of you are town they are gonna let my bullet through so i started working on other people to shoot. and between myself and hf i arrived at moosy and slam. i sent about 9 pms to the mods....i really wish i had shot slam now.
And as stated in #2, you townread Moosy.
(4) MoosyDoosy's content (Exhibit 4) was either reads or trolling, which is reflective of his general play as town after Day 1, it is known he is not a fan of playing day 1. Do you disagree with this.
I look forward to your answers.
You are free to wager any amount of money you please. Any currency is accepted.
For your sheer amusement you can go ahead and play the Jeopardy music:
the gimmick here kinda annoys me tbh. it just makes it more difficult to actually read what you're trying to say, but it makes it very clear to me you have not read what i have been typing for multiple days; so let's try and explain this to you.
everything i typed during the night phase i had the gun was wifom. everything. your entire case is from that night phase. ritoky, why was it wifom, that makes no sense?
On January 03 2016 11:08 ritoky wrote: point a: the plan is to spend a lot of the night trying to sound like i am shooting damdred or onegu so that if either is mafia i am likely roleblocked which confirms to me there is at least 1 between them. if i am not roleblocked it reveals mafia didn't care and both are likely town. it yielded tons of information giving me basically 2 confirmed towns so i think the play was overall fine, especially since the 2 confirmed towns are ML candidates for doing some dumb fake claim stuff.
point b: damdred: "you never listen to me even though you can read me well" ritoky: "yup"
point c: i snap claimed as vigi (within the first day/night cycle) too. i claim with a gun, i think it is superior in 90% of cases.
point d: yes i am frustrated that the jk is not protecting obvious town. aren't you? oh wait, you didn't find those people obvious town. my bad, how's the holyflare push going?
anyways i should have shot slam, and that's on me.
it's not like i clearly stated multiple times that i was wifoming all night to try and place mafia under the illusion i was shooting between gu and damdred. you're entitled to your opinion though. it's just wrong.
why did i shoot moosy over slam? hf made a list of 3 that i liked and you quoted so clearly you saw it, i chose from the list. if slam flips mafia after gb i look like shit and an idiot and that's on me. but tbh i don't tend to look like shit and an idiot as mafia i would rather shoot my partner and look amazing like i did to palmar once before.
this all stems from omgus since i poe'd you, which makes me laugh and probably just makes you mafia.
On January 08 2016 02:07 Damdred wrote: Exo v Shining looks town vs town as I read it. So yeah both of them going bro fuck you for misunderstanding and getting emo looks town.
I like that read. Both can go back to lock town.
Which makes the game harder because I want to town read nm also.
ows off the table today but possible scum still hrm.
Then got the group of oo, palmar, ritoky, kush, slam.
The way we are voting is a bit nerve racking with everyone piling up but I can't really contest slam I've seen him just leave like this as town and scum which makes this suck even more.
Meh after cooling down and catching up, chances are you could be right. The thing is, Exo fucked off after that interaction. Like if he thinks I'm tilting, regardless of alignment, then just ignore me or if he thinks I'm scum, case me.
Basically, Exo, if you're town, don't let the tilt get to you and I'll try to work on communicating more clearly, like ritoky suggested to me. But don't get so defensive when all I'm doing is asking what I thought were clear questions. Because then we end up with double tilted town(if you're town, which is possible) and I'm sure scum would love that.
EPT
