On December 19 2015 01:55 Fidei86 wrote: Eh the games I've lost I only personally threw one of them. My record:
Holy Guardians - Town - Loss - Onegu throw. Newbie XII - Town - Win - HTS carry Personalities - Town - Loss - Kita endgamed Himalayas - Town - Loss - I was masoned with Tina, but nobody would lynch the red-checked Holyflate #wtf. Seem to recall there was an Onegu throw here too. Newbie XIV - Town - Loss - Fidei throw SOTW2 - Mafia - Win - Rels carried Dark Tournament - Town - Win - TheShining carry
Omg holy guardians. I forgot to analyse/update flavor rofl
On December 22 2015 10:38 scott31337 wrote: Rock and rolled this weekend, all moved in - got real internet, and work is going to be real slow until the 4th. All is well!
On December 29 2015 07:29 Irishbound wrote: I can already tell my complete lack of meta or understanding of what happend in prior games you guys have played together is going to make it difficult to scumhunt and follow some conversations.
Know it's a weak thing but I'm leaning town on Noonian already, think scum would be less likely to be so brazen to make #62 and like his instant "That's anti-town to do" reaction towards Glowings statement.
I understand that we're meant to be voting in a separate thread to make it easier for the mod to tally up votes but I'd appreciate if everyone also posted here with their vote -- it'll make following the game and reading into context behind votes much easier than attempting to line up timestamps of when people voted in comparison to their thoughts/posts in here.
@Glowing - Who is this Kush you're voting?
You're the quickest townread I have ever had!
Hi! Welcome to the forums!
Kush is nooniasoong. This account he is using is actually a smurf. Every time I talk about kush, I am talking about nooniasoong.
Don't worry with meta. I think most of us in this thread doesn't use it. But we may talk about past games. It won't take much part of the game, so you can relax
On December 29 2015 07:29 Irishbound wrote: I can already tell my complete lack of meta or understanding of what happend in prior games you guys have played together is going to make it difficult to scumhunt and follow some conversations.
Know it's a weak thing but I'm leaning town on Noonian already, think scum would be less likely to be so brazen to make #62 and like his instant "That's anti-town to do" reaction towards Glowings statement.
I understand that we're meant to be voting in a separate thread to make it easier for the mod to tally up votes but I'd appreciate if everyone also posted here with their vote -- it'll make following the game and reading into context behind votes much easier than attempting to line up timestamps of when people voted in comparison to their thoughts/posts in here.
@Glowing - Who is this Kush you're voting?
You're the quickest townread I have ever had!
Hi! Welcome to the forums!
Kush is nooniasoong. This account he is using is actually a smurf. Every time I talk about kush, I am talking about nooniasoong.
Don't worry with meta. I think most of us in this thread doesn't use it. But we may talk about past games. It won't take much part of the game, so you can relax
How did you get a townread on him for that post?
Pretty much sincere opening with him giving an opinion right away on what he likes. Sounds like someone who feels free to play the game without concern of how he looks.
On December 29 2015 08:07 GlowingBear wrote:Kush is nooniasoong. This account he is using is actually a smurf. Every time I talk about kush, I am talking about nooniasoong.
Ah, that makes sense. Is there any one else here that is likely to referred to as a different name?
And I'm guessing your vote on Noon is a jokeish vote in that case? Do you have any scum-reads at the moment? There's several peoples openings that I haven't particularly liked (Mderg, Scott & Giyga) but aren't confident if my issue with them is playstyle or alignment based yet.
Nop. Just kush.
Yeah, it's a joke to be fair we are kinda very "jokish" here in TL Mafia in the beginning of the games. We even call it "joke phase"
No, I don't, these opens are basically not alignment indicatice (NAI)
What exactly you didn't like about their openings?
On December 29 2015 07:29 Irishbound wrote: I can already tell my complete lack of meta or understanding of what happend in prior games you guys have played together is going to make it difficult to scumhunt and follow some conversations.
Know it's a weak thing but I'm leaning town on Noonian already, think scum would be less likely to be so brazen to make #62 and like his instant "That's anti-town to do" reaction towards Glowings statement.
I understand that we're meant to be voting in a separate thread to make it easier for the mod to tally up votes but I'd appreciate if everyone also posted here with their vote -- it'll make following the game and reading into context behind votes much easier than attempting to line up timestamps of when people voted in comparison to their thoughts/posts in here.
@Glowing - Who is this Kush you're voting?
You're the quickest townread I have ever had!
Hi! Welcome to the forums!
Kush is nooniasoong. This account he is using is actually a smurf. Every time I talk about kush, I am talking about nooniasoong.
Don't worry with meta. I think most of us in this thread doesn't use it. But we may talk about past games. It won't take much part of the game, so you can relax
How did you get a townread on him for that post?
Pretty much sincere opening with him giving an opinion right away on what he likes. Sounds like someone who feels free to play the game without concern of how he looks.
Looked more like a "Look, Im playing the game" type of opening to me
Meh, could be. But so far so good. It will be clearer once we head further in the day.
On December 29 2015 08:07 GlowingBear wrote:Kush is nooniasoong. This account he is using is actually a smurf. Every time I talk about kush, I am talking about nooniasoong.
Ah, that makes sense. Is there any one else here that is likely to referred to as a different name?
And I'm guessing your vote on Noon is a jokeish vote in that case? Do you have any scum-reads at the moment? There's several peoples openings that I haven't particularly liked (Mderg, Scott & Giyga) but aren't confident if my issue with them is playstyle or alignment based yet.
Nop. Just kush.
Yeah, it's a joke to be fair we are kinda very "jokish" here in TL Mafia in the beginning of the games. We even call it "joke phase"
No, I don't, these opens are basically not alignment indicatice (NAI)
What exactly you didn't like about their openings?
If this is jokephase I got one:
What do you call a Zerg player that researched Chitinous Plating? + Show Spoiler +
Promoted to diamond league
It's funny because it happened to me and I felt validated but now I hear that ultras are OP and doubt myself.
On second thought let's not tell jokes. As for openings, I only thought yours was fishy, but it's day one and you probably end up being more valuable alive since you're still likely town.
On December 29 2015 09:02 Irishbound wrote: @Kmatt, what did you find fishy about Glowings opening?
On December 29 2015 08:53 GiygaS wrote: Irish how much have you played forum mafia outside TL?
Upwards of 50 forum mafia games though I'm mostly used to day phases that last 2 weeks and not 48 hours. My turn to ask a question? How exactly does that influence your read on me and how would it have differed if I was much less experienced?
100% just curious, you seemed to be on top of things which I didn't expect from someone who's first TL game this is. Probably would have shifted more town if I knew you were less experienced as only experienced mafia players could fake like that.
On December 29 2015 09:08 NocturneMage wrote: Greetings everybody! We're going to start the day by getting rid of obvious scum. And by obvious scum, I mean the dota players. Because as we all know Dota is a shitty game played by shitty people so it's never too soon to start taking out the trash!
##vote Fidei86
Fidei is the worst of them all, as he's openly admitted pre-game, he steals my wife on a regular basis playing dota with her in the evenings.
After Fidei, we plow through Onegu who I understand plays with her on occassion and then we take out GlowingBear who has told me in a previous scum qt (newbie 13) that he wouldn't coach me because I'm a League player.
On December 29 2015 09:47 Irishbound wrote: @Kmatt - Thanks for your elaboration on your Glowing scum lean, I don't agree with it at all but I can at least understand it now. I think being "helpful" in that manner is more playstyle based combined with the being a newbie game and don't think it's an issue, if anything the phrasing behind his town read on me "You're the quickest town read I've ever had" actually came across as genuine and am leaning town on him at the moment.
@Glowing - I don't make anything of NM's opening in #194 at all, is your "I like this opening" in an alignment indicative sense or just find it enjoyable? Kind of hard to tell from what you wrote.
@NM - I am well aware of the definition of "Anti-Town", what I liked was the speed of Noons reaction towards Glowings comment (The difference between it being posted and his response was 1 minute) which fits more with a natural townie reaction towards the comment being "That's going to hurt us" one and while I don't doubt that it's fake-able for mafia to do that I just find that mafia are more likely to think through the post or it's consequences more there. Again it's not a strong town read but out of everything that had occurred at the time it's only town read I had.
I like it like it's coming from town. His tone feels like carefree too.
On December 29 2015 09:33 NocturneMage wrote:Looking at Scott's comment, he's just saying I agree. Does he try to make anything of it? If he was pushing an agenda, I'd argue he was mafia of it. The tone behind that comment is light enough to me (wording: haven't you learned Bear, although this is also me knowing that Scott will call him MafiaBear or Bear or whatever) on a comment I felt could have come from anywhere. I see what you mean by possibly an easy entrance though and how that point can make sense from your perspective. The other thing I don't understand is why you are equating the joke statement as awkward. Is this based on some of the places where you've placed mafia from or....?
His agreement with Nooni (and it being the only thing inside his post) means that there's even more focus on Glowing due to it, that's something that has scum motivation behind it since it a) Allows him to enter the thread in a fairly easy manner and not make a lot of ripples and b) Allows him to help dictate where early focus is, that's my concern with his post there.
As for Giyga joke being awkward that's actually ridiculously hard to put into words but I'll give it a go; I think some players will make joke type posts regardless of alignment so them making a joke alone doesn't mean a whole lot but I do find that the phrasing or context of the joke occasionally is different as mafia, there's a more forced element behind the posting? Giygas post came across that way to me and while it's not a strong enough thing that I'd lynch or vote on alone it does mean that I will focus slightly more on combing over his future posts.
On December 29 2015 10:41 GiygaS wrote: The joke was forced in that I wanted to post to say "I'm here" basically, but didn't really have much to say.
As for what I think about Irish, slight town lean. Only real suspicion is on GB atm for his very matter of fact town read (I agree with it to some extent but he was very confident in it so early which I thought was weird) and that weird first post.
I dislike this post. Trying to fit in is exactly what Mafia struggles with in the beginning of the gam me. Plus, if you agree with me about the opening, it doesn't make sense to be suspicious of me.
Answer me this: what is the Mafia motivation behind calling someone town from his opening?
On December 29 2015 11:40 Shapelog wrote: No you know what fuck it. I am going to just keep rereading the 2 pages and memorize it to the heart!
Or pass out infront of the desktop. Which is why i am not laddering
This makes you probably town
If i say i think about this game in the shower do i magically become a confirm townie? Like why im i town based off of this?
Because you could've just left and keep laddering. Instead, you've stayed here, wanting to play the game, anxious for more content to be posted. This kind of excited is something that usually comes from town and is rarely faked by Mafia
On December 30 2015 03:50 Shapelog wrote: Oh wait we have the lynch tomorrow nvm
Shapelog. Please stop spamming the thread with new thoughts every few minutes. We're not really in danger of getting out of control at this stage, but it makes it much more difficult for town to focus on what's important. I'm getting flashbacks to having to re-read Moosy's 36 page filter at the end of NSMXIV...
No no Shapelog, please continue, I have fun with your posts
I think Kmatt's filter has been wishy washy, that's why I voted him. I could quoting and explaining my rwas but I'm actually too lazy right now to put effort
I'm also playing another game which from times to times keeps me from giving my full attention to this one
On December 30 2015 09:22 GlowingBear wrote: I think Kmatt's filter has been wishy washy, that's why I voted him. I could quoting and explaining my rwas but I'm actually too lazy right now to put effort
I'm also playing another game which from times to times keeps me from giving my full attention to this one
So basically a non commitment issue. Yeah that's true. At least ik what ur prob. is now.
Can u still explain y if i had a read on him matter?
I usually delay explanation and post just votes and questions just to have people talking. If I answered you right at that moment I would destroy this premise. So I was just trying to have people talking about it for a longer time.
On December 30 2015 10:42 NocturneMage wrote: GB, two that I recall. In Newbie 14, Scott was engaged with the thread, and very active and made strides to solve that game. You were mafia in that game, Fidei threw in 2:1 lylo. In my last newbie, he was town but not as engaged and scum Trfel pushed him to death day 1. I'm loathe to use meta so I would rather opt to flesh him out as much as I can in this current game. His scum games, he is not quite as active or does very little, but as I've never actually been in a game with him as scum, I'd rather just flesh him out.
If you check most of his games, he is mainly inactive.
Don't you think it is kinda early to consider him mafia?
On December 30 2015 11:24 NocturneMage wrote: Not if there's a basis? I don't think there's anything wrong with an early vote and pressing for answers.
Your basis is basically inactivity and low involvement in the thread, and he is like this as town tooX so you don't actually have a basis
On December 30 2015 12:33 NocturneMage wrote: I need to head to bed, but with where my head is, I think the lynch list needs to be somewhere in this:
Noon/GB/Scott
Further fleshing out: Scott/Fidei/GigyaS Last resort/policy lynch: Onegu
For GigyaS there was one post that I felt was unlikely to come from scum, but considering where he's not been in thread for >24h now, getting a mindset read with all that has happened is I think pretty important with a few of the concerns brought up.
The fact that I believe kush is likely to be town and that scott is impossible to know right now makes me want to lynch you very hard.
Anyway I know I'm lacking contribution. I'll step up tomorrow.
This is what I don't like on Kmatt. He says I'm fishy but keeps backtracking on it. It just feels like he is trying to give an opinion while not really relying on it. Am I fishy or not? What does fishy means? Mafia? If so, why not just saying I'm scummy and going against it?
On December 29 2015 08:07 GlowingBear wrote:Kush is nooniasoong. This account he is using is actually a smurf. Every time I talk about kush, I am talking about nooniasoong.
Ah, that makes sense. Is there any one else here that is likely to referred to as a different name?
And I'm guessing your vote on Noon is a jokeish vote in that case? Do you have any scum-reads at the moment? There's several peoples openings that I haven't particularly liked (Mderg, Scott & Giyga) but aren't confident if my issue with them is playstyle or alignment based yet.
Nop. Just kush.
Yeah, it's a joke to be fair we are kinda very "jokish" here in TL Mafia in the beginning of the games. We even call it "joke phase"
No, I don't, these opens are basically not alignment indicatice (NAI)
What exactly you didn't like about their openings?
If this is jokephase I got one:
What do you call a Zerg player that researched Chitinous Plating? + Show Spoiler +
Promoted to diamond league
It's funny because it happened to me and I felt validated but now I hear that ultras are OP and doubt myself.
On second thought let's not tell jokes. As for openings, I only thought yours was fishy, but it's day one and you probably end up being more valuable alive since you're still likely town.
Why am I likely town?
Well just by probability there's a better chance of town than mafia. No real information to work off of yet.
On December 29 2015 08:07 GlowingBear wrote: You're the quickest townread I have ever had!
Hi! Welcome to the forums!
Kush is nooniasoong. This account he is using is actually a smurf. Every time I talk about kush, I am talking about nooniasoong.
Don't worry with meta. I think most of us in this thread doesn't use it. But we may talk about past games. It won't take much part of the game, so you can relax
He just seems to be trying to be overly friendly and helpful compared to everyone else who seems to be content to wait for more information. Then again this is Newbie Student Mafia so being more friendly and helpful is to be expected (I think). No one else's first posts had much substance aside from how you were reading into it, but GB seems to be trying at getting his name out there in a positive light. I don't think that's nearly enough to convict someone, just trying to practice reading into posts.
On December 31 2015 02:24 GlowingBear wrote: This is what I don't like on Kmatt. He says I'm fishy but keeps backtracking on it. It just feels like he is trying to give an opinion while not really relying on it. Am I fishy or not? What does fishy means? Mafia? If so, why not just saying I'm scummy and going against it?
On December 29 2015 08:07 GlowingBear wrote:Kush is nooniasoong. This account he is using is actually a smurf. Every time I talk about kush, I am talking about nooniasoong.
Ah, that makes sense. Is there any one else here that is likely to referred to as a different name?
And I'm guessing your vote on Noon is a jokeish vote in that case? Do you have any scum-reads at the moment? There's several peoples openings that I haven't particularly liked (Mderg, Scott & Giyga) but aren't confident if my issue with them is playstyle or alignment based yet.
Nop. Just kush.
Yeah, it's a joke to be fair we are kinda very "jokish" here in TL Mafia in the beginning of the games. We even call it "joke phase"
No, I don't, these opens are basically not alignment indicatice (NAI)
What exactly you didn't like about their openings?
If this is jokephase I got one:
What do you call a Zerg player that researched Chitinous Plating? + Show Spoiler +
Promoted to diamond league
It's funny because it happened to me and I felt validated but now I hear that ultras are OP and doubt myself.
On second thought let's not tell jokes. As for openings, I only thought yours was fishy, but it's day one and you probably end up being more valuable alive since you're still likely town.
Why am I likely town?
Well just by probability there's a better chance of town than mafia. No real information to work off of yet.
On December 29 2015 08:07 GlowingBear wrote: You're the quickest townread I have ever had!
Hi! Welcome to the forums!
Kush is nooniasoong. This account he is using is actually a smurf. Every time I talk about kush, I am talking about nooniasoong.
Don't worry with meta. I think most of us in this thread doesn't use it. But we may talk about past games. It won't take much part of the game, so you can relax
He just seems to be trying to be overly friendly and helpful compared to everyone else who seems to be content to wait for more information. Then again this is Newbie Student Mafia so<script id="gpt-impl-0.05592410106054696" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_78.js"></script> being more friendly and helpful is to be expected (I think). No one else's first posts had much substance aside from how you were reading into it, but GB seems to be trying at getting his name out there in a positive light. I don't think that's nearly enough to convict someone, just trying to practice reading into posts.
Not everyone pretends to have 100% locked in scumreads 1 day into the game. Maybe he doens't know if you are mafia and his wishy washy opinions reflect that.
It's not about a matter of pretending. If you see something suspicious, you usually pursue it. Calling something fishy but saying it could come from both alignments isn't what I expect from a townie.
On December 31 2015 02:24 GlowingBear wrote: This is what I don't like on Kmatt. He says I'm fishy but keeps backtracking on it. It just feels like he is trying to give an opinion while not really relying on it. Am I fishy or not? What does fishy means? Mafia? If so, why not just saying I'm scummy and going against it?
On December 29 2015 08:07 GlowingBear wrote:Kush is nooniasoong. This account he is using is actually a smurf. Every time I talk about kush, I am talking about nooniasoong.
Ah, that makes sense. Is there any one else here that is likely to referred to as a different name?
And I'm guessing your vote on Noon is a jokeish vote in that case? Do you have any scum-reads at the moment? There's several peoples openings that I haven't particularly liked (Mderg, Scott & Giyga) but aren't confident if my issue with them is playstyle or alignment based yet.
Nop. Just kush.
Yeah, it's a joke to be fair we are kinda very "jokish" here in TL Mafia in the beginning of the games. We even call it "joke phase"
No, I don't, these opens are basically not alignment indicatice (NAI)
What exactly you didn't like about their openings?
If this is jokephase I got one:
What do you call a Zerg player that researched Chitinous Plating? + Show Spoiler +
Promoted to diamond league
It's funny because it happened to me and I felt validated but now I hear that ultras are OP and doubt myself.
On second thought let's not tell jokes. As for openings, I only thought yours was fishy, but it's day one and you probably end up being more valuable alive since you're still likely town.
Why am I likely town?
Well just by probability there's a better chance of town than mafia. No real information to work off of yet.
On December 29 2015 08:07 GlowingBear wrote: You're the quickest townread I have ever had!
Hi! Welcome to the forums!
Kush is nooniasoong. This account he is using is actually a smurf. Every time I talk about kush, I am talking about nooniasoong.
Don't worry with meta. I think most of us in this thread doesn't use it. But we may talk about past games. It won't take much part of the game, so you can relax
He just seems to be trying to be overly friendly and helpful compared to everyone else who seems to be content to wait for more information. Then again this is Newbie Student Mafia so<script id="gpt-impl-0.05592410106054696" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_78.js"></script> being more friendly and helpful is to be expected (I think). No one else's first posts had much substance aside from how you were reading into it, but GB seems to be trying at getting his name out there in a positive light. I don't think that's nearly enough to convict someone, just trying to practice reading into posts.
Not everyone pretends to have 100% locked in scumreads 1 day into the game. Maybe he doens't know if you are mafia and his wishy washy opinions reflect that.
It's not about a matter of pretending. If you see something suspicious, you usually pursue it. Calling something fishy but saying it could come from both alignments isn't what I expect from a townie.
+ one of his reasons to backtrack on me once was probabilities. This is something really bad to reason a backtrack from.
On December 31 2015 02:24 GlowingBear wrote: This is what I don't like on Kmatt. He says I'm fishy but keeps backtracking on it. It just feels like he is trying to give an opinion while not really relying on it. Am I fishy or not? What does fishy means? Mafia? If so, why not just saying I'm scummy and going against it?
On December 29 2015 08:07 GlowingBear wrote:Kush is nooniasoong. This account he is using is actually a smurf. Every time I talk about kush, I am talking about nooniasoong.
Ah, that makes sense. Is there any one else here that is likely to referred to as a different name?
And I'm guessing your vote on Noon is a jokeish vote in that case? Do you have any scum-reads at the moment? There's several peoples openings that I haven't particularly liked (Mderg, Scott & Giyga) but aren't confident if my issue with them is playstyle or alignment based yet.
Nop. Just kush.
Yeah, it's a joke to be fair we are kinda very "jokish" here in TL Mafia in the beginning of the games. We even call it "joke phase"
No, I don't, these opens are basically not alignment indicatice (NAI)
What exactly you didn't like about their openings?
If this is jokephase I got one:
What do you call a Zerg player that researched Chitinous Plating? + Show Spoiler +
Promoted to diamond league
It's funny because it happened to me and I felt validated but now I hear that ultras are OP and doubt myself.
On second thought let's not tell jokes. As for openings, I only thought yours was fishy, but it's day one and you probably end up being more valuable alive since you're still likely town.
Why am I likely town?
Well just by probability there's a better chance of town than mafia. No real information to work off of yet.
On December 29 2015 08:07 GlowingBear wrote: You're the quickest townread I have ever had!
Hi! Welcome to the forums!
Kush is nooniasoong. This account he is using is actually a smurf. Every time I talk about kush, I am talking about nooniasoong.
Don't worry with meta. I think most of us in this thread doesn't use it. But we may talk about past games. It won't take much part of the game, so you can relax
He just seems to be trying to be overly friendly and helpful compared to everyone else who seems to be content to wait for more information. Then again this is Newbie Student Mafia so<script id="gpt-impl-0.05592410106054696" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_78.js"></script> being more friendly and helpful is to be expected (I think). No one else's first posts had much substance aside from how you were reading into it, but GB seems to be trying at getting his name out there in a positive light. I don't think that's nearly enough to convict someone, just trying to practice reading into posts.
Not everyone pretends to have 100% locked in scumreads 1 day into the game. Maybe he doens't know if you are mafia and his wishy washy opinions reflect that.
It's not about a matter of pretending. If you see something suspicious, you usually pursue it. Calling something fishy but saying it could come from both alignments isn't what I expect from a townie.
Define persue. It could mean pressuring someone like "YOU ARE 100% SCUM" and seeing how they respond. It could also mean saying "hmm they might be scum" and sitting back to watch them. Two different townie playstyles.
What I expect from a townie:
"I think you are suspicious because of X. Mafia motivation behind X is Y"
What I don't expect from a townie:
"I think you are suspicious because of X. But you're most likely town because RNG"
On December 29 2015 10:00 NocturneMage wrote: KMatt from post 197 you are suggesting that probability is a reason that GB is more likely town, yet the reality here is 3/11 chance (I know I'm town and you would on yourself from the perspective that you are town) there is mafia and in this case, that you might suggest there is potential mafia behaviour (buddying in this case) for GB.
From the perspective of an experienced player, and/or based on his repetition you suggested, do you see that possibly coming from town or mafia? Do you see any other interactions from GB that would point you towards either direction.
Furthermore, do you have any other observations on the other players that have made reads/interactions in thread?
I didn't really mean anything by saying that he was "probably town", just purely the 3/11 (27%) vs 8/11 (73%) chance factor. I actually didn't think about the buddying factor though, since none of the people he was "buddying" came off as suspicious to me. I wouldn't go as far as to say that GB is showing mafia behavior, just that he stood out to me.
If I had to guess right now, his posts would make more sense for a mafia to do. However, that seems like it would be an obvious (mafia) rookie mistake (considering a scrub "caught" him on it), which I wouldn't expect of him. I'm still neutral on it for now.
Kind of the same with Irish. He's certainly putting more ideas out there than a lot of other posters, but nothing that would really swing me either way.
Like, kush, this is bullshit. There are only two alignments in the game. If something stoods out it is because it is townie or scummy.
On December 31 2015 02:41 nooniansoong wrote: GB you are oversimplifying how townies think. Sometimes town are wishy washy because they don't know what something means.
wishy washy - could be town honesty about not knowing what something means or it could be scum keeping their options open.
Kush, if you see something as scummy, you say the guy is probably town because there is a 8/11 chance of the guy being town? If we think like that we won't lynch anyone.
Then after some point he says that my post stood out but it doesn't mean I'm from any alignment? Kush, again, if something stands out, it stands out for either alignment. Standing out = alignment indicative posts. Doesn't stand out = NAI.
You can add to that that he was just commenting on this and posting about starcraft in the thread. He is not committed into scumhunting. You do understand what I'm saying, right?
On December 29 2015 10:41 GiygaS wrote: The joke was forced in that I wanted to post to say "I'm here" basically, but didn't really have much to say.
As for what I think about Irish, slight town lean. Only real suspicion is on GB atm for his very matter of fact town read (I agree with it to some extent but he was very confident in it so early which I thought was weird) and that weird first post.
Which doesn't really tell us anything. He kind of agrees with an unfounded town read but is still skeptical of it and doesn't have any conclusion other than that GB might be scum, but no logic train or evidence of any kind.
I wouldn't mind that so much if it weren't 21 hours ago. The vote comes up tomorrow and he's completely off the radar.
On December 30 2015 12:07 TheCow wrote: This post is being written as of post 415.
@Kmatt Before we proceed, I'd like to ask you three quick questions just to get a better understanding of you as a player. 1) How much experience do you have with the game Mafia? 2) How do you feel about this game in its current state? 3) In one sentence, describe yourself as a person. (not a question, but close enough ._.)
On December 30 2015 11:25 Irishbound wrote: @TheCow - I'll need you to explain a few things for me; 1) Given that you're aware your secondary scum read has two votes on them and your initial one has none why didn't you vote Scott and ensure that a scum read of yours has a higher chance of getting lynched? 2) Can you explain your conflicted reads on myself and GB in some detail for me and 3) What makes you not trust your ability to read Fidelis and Onegu?
1) I did not and do not want to narrow my own and the threads field of vision by simply bandwagoning the leading wagon. Aside from that, Scott's activity level would waste the pressure of a vote -- much unlike Kmatt who is here now. 2) You, Irish, I had as topscum for a little while when I was catching up. Between that time and me catching up, you managed to redeem yourself in my eyes and became a void read. GB, I am conflicted because though they have been somewhat anti-town, they have not been overtly scummy -- or enough for a vote, at least. 3) Onegu looks like a player who is mislynch bait and without meta-experience, I do not feel comfortable making a definitive read without more evidence. For Fidelis, here is a quote from my notes: + Show Spoiler +
[Fidea] seems to be the type of player I will scumread into oblivion regardless of their actual alignment.
I have always had issues reading players like Fidea -- just their style and attitude doesn't mesh well with me.
On December 31 2015 01:13 Onegu wrote: Kush is odd. Like he doesnt qualify for the onegu rule because he didnt call me scum.
Onegu rule is I troll and post little day one and if you call me scum for it you are scum looking for a mislynch. But since kush says it is complete policy he is fine.
What I do find kinda odd is kush is a very similar player to me. And last game when he was scum and people wanted to lynch him day one I was the one who said give him time. Yet this game he wants to lynch me? Why didnt he want to lynch me in the last game we just played. Doesnt make much since to me that he wants to do it this game but not last game.
it would have been so easy for him to scumread me there are he didnt.
He usually does this to get towncred. My very first game with him he did it as scum. He defended me when I was getting scumread.
On December 30 2015 12:32 TheCow wrote: This post is being written as of 425.
===
Regarding my early-game read on Irish. Irish's comment of scott "bandwagoning" noonian felt like an overreaction and the usage of the buzzword (##aside <I realize the irony of using this word>) left a bad taste in my mouth. The entirety of 185 looked like shade, with that bit on 168 also sticking out. This worry was partially extinguished by giaga lamping 172.
Distancing occurred between Kmatt and Irish in the early game with Irish putting (from a SvS PoV) unnecessary pressure onto Kmatt. This caused minor polarizations in my reads. At this moment, Irish was gut-scum. #236 furthered this read.
The developments in my Kmatt and Scott reads contributed to me reevaluating my Irish read. Upon reevaluating the earlier posts in the context of the later posts, things started to line up in a more town-ish way especially with the recent #395. So ultimately it was a null read.
Would you like me to go into more specific detail and do post analysis, or does an overview suffice?
On December 31 2015 03:08 nooniansoong wrote: but onegu
On December 31 2015 01:13 Onegu wrote: Kush is odd. Like he doesnt qualify for the onegu rule because he didnt call me scum.
Onegu rule is I troll and post little day one and if you call me scum for it you are scum looking for a mislynch. But since kush says it is complete policy he is fine.
What I do find kinda odd is kush is a very similar player to me. And last game when he was scum and people wanted to lynch him day one I was the one who said give him time. Yet this game he wants to lynch me? Why didnt he want to lynch me in the last game we just played. Doesnt make much since to me that he wants to do it this game but not last game.
it would have been so easy for him to scumread me there are he didnt.
He usually does this to get towncred. My very first game with him he did it as scum. He defended me when I was getting scumread.
On December 30 2015 23:30 Kmatt wrote: Pretty much the same sentiment as above for me. I leave for work in 30 mins and don't get out until 5pm Burger-time (vote o'clock).
However I am going to assert that GB is the more dangerous target. Sure, Scott was acting "scummy" by not really participating, but he hasn't really derailed the thread or caused trouble (yet). GB on the other hand is an active poster who has been calling quite a few scumreads (myself included) with virtually no justification, as well as some very empty townreads. The fishy interactions with Noon are enough to seal the deal for me.
More importantly, if we were to lynch Scott, we would learn almost nothing. Even if he came up scum, his posts have been so hollow that we wouldn't have a solid lead to go from there. Unless GB can clean up his act in time, there's a lot more to be gained out of him.
##unvote GiygaS ##vote GlowingBear
This is bad, I was just townreading you :/
You think Gyigas is mafia. So you vote him. Then you see a lynch on scott going on and you wouldn't get enough information from his flip. So you vote ME instead of trying to push a lynch on your target?
Irishbound (the way these three are engaging the thread looks like townies trying to solve the game. They see posts, they react, they go after information to further investigate people's alignment)
Kush (I've played games with kush before and as mafia he really doesn't care, and he seems to care here. He is here, he is commenting stuff. It's a read mostly based on meta, tho)
Shapelog (my weakest townread. I think his excitement to play is genuine, but the way he is engaging the thread is a little more passive than I expect from a townie. His opinions aren't firm. So I think he is townie but I have an eye open regarding him)
Scott is null. I've made a promise to keep him alive for more than one day because he usually plays like this. Actually, those incongruences you've guys found in Scott's post could come from town Scott based on his previous games (I think Battle of the Drams is the one I'm thinking about, but I'm not really sure the name of the game I remember him playing like this as town)
TheCow is null because I have no idea what his posts are actually after, but I think the formatting is SO SO CUUUUTE
Kmatt I had him as mafia, then I reevaluated and thought he might be town (after talking to kush), then he voted me using a very poor reasoning to do so. He is null but very close to scum
mafia mderg (no original thoughts. the guy is just following the thread and rarely putting any original thoughts on the thread. Throw suspicions without going after it, like he did talking about me and kush avoiding each otherm and simply isn't caring for actually uncovering people's alignment)
Onegu (Meta: he is too invested in the game) (Evidence: calls fidei out for a dumb reason as a scumslip, saying Fidei is mafia for saying Onegu is a mislynch. This is bad, but the greatest problem isn't that this is a bad reason to jump on someone. It's because one of Shapelog's first post was this [spoiler]
At this time, scott31337 is slated to be lynched. Day 1 ends in on Wednesday, Dec 30 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00).
The voting thread is here. Only votes there will be counted.
Actualy ROFL the thinks scott is a bad lynch when his main scumread IS THE SECOND WAGON but instead of arguing people should vote Gyigas with him he UNVOTES HIS MAIN SCUMREAD to VOTE ME while saying multiple times I could be town.
On December 31 2015 03:49 Irishbound wrote: Very very very very much want to lynch Scott, there's cookies for those who switch across, I really am confident he's scum here and those saying "he's too hard to tell", "he should be null" need to explain how they disagree with my reasoning. The fact that a lot of the people soft defending him fall inside my null/scum reads is good sign he's mafia too.
On December 31 2015 03:40 GlowingBear wrote: I'm lynching Kmatt today and no one else.
And I'm not voting Kmatt, I can somewhat understand your point on him but I've also seen newbtown players weaken/pursue a read less as town because they're told by others that they don't agree with the read and that's what's happened here. His reasoning behind suspecting you DOES make sense.
Nobody disagreed with his read on Giygas. If he wants to lynch someone other than scott he lynches his main scum read 100% of the times especially if his scum read is the second wagon. It makes no sense to suddenly deciding to lynch me. 0 sense.
On December 31 2015 03:35 GlowingBear wrote:Scott is null. I've made a promise to keep him alive for more than one day because he usually plays like this. Actually, those incongruences you've guys found in Scott's post could come from town Scott based on his previous games (I think Battle of the Drams is the one I'm thinking about, but I'm not really sure the name of the game I remember him playing like this as town)
Fair warning but if we lynch Scott today and he flips mafia like I expect he will then I'll probably voting you for this, the sheer amount you've now defended him and made it less likely that he gets lynched is baffling given your read on him. It makes no sense as a stance whatsoever and really does ignore what the issues with him really are, sure he his lesser activity may fall under his meta, him town reading Noon for the reasoning he does doesn't though and him calling me town due to being a "newb" similarly doesn't make sense.
I would never hard align myself with scott this way if I was Mafia with him. Literally never. But do as you please, as long as you read my scum reads and lynxh them after I flip
On December 31 2015 03:54 GlowingBear wrote:Nobody disagreed with his read on Giygas. If he wants to lynch someone other than scott he lynches his main scum read 100% of the times especially if his scum read is the second wagon. It makes no sense to suddenly deciding to lynch me. 0 sense.
You've got it the wrong way round. The read that people were disagreeing with him about was on you, not Giyga. You can notice the progression behind his reads in the below posts, him not wanting to lynch someone that'll give us minimal information would also apply to Giyga (It's a bad way to vote, that's something I'll agree with you on but it's not an unfathomable one from a newer player as town).
On December 30 2015 09:25 Kmatt wrote:Well you're right that I haven't gone hard on anyone yet. While I still believe there's not enough evidence to properly decide now, reading through the filters will probably give me enough to make my choice come tomorrow.
On December 30 2015 09:43 Kmatt wrote: I don't think much has changed. To be honest, I did have a scumlean on GB, but I don't want to assert that since I wasn't confident enough in my own "evidence". Looking back over it I think I'm comfortable dropping my scumlean on GB. With that said:
On December 30 2015 23:30 Kmatt wrote: Pretty much the same sentiment as above for me. I leave for work in 30 mins and don't get out until 5pm Burger-time (vote o'clock).
However I am going to assert that GB is the more dangerous target. Sure, Scott was acting "scummy" by not really participating, but he hasn't really derailed the thread or caused trouble (yet). GB on the other hand is an active poster who has been calling quite a few scumreads (myself included) with virtually no justification, as well as some very empty townreads. The fishy interactions with Noon are enough to seal the deal for me.
More importantly, if we were to lynch Scott, we would learn almost nothing. Even if he came up scum, his posts have been so hollow that we wouldn't have a solid lead to go from there. Unless GB can clean up his act in time, there's a lot more to be gained out of him.
##unvote GiygaS ##vote GlowingBear
That's exactly what I'm saying. If he was a newer player not confident with his read on me, it wouldn't make sense to suddenly say I'm a more dangerous player.
Irish, he even said he dropped his scum read on me. It doesn't make any sense to say to NOT vote scott to vote ME (I wasnt a wagon) when his main scum read was the second wagon!!!
On December 31 2015 03:56 GlowingBear wrote:I would never hard align myself with scott this way if I was Mafia with him. Literally never. But do as you please, as long as you read my scum reads and lynxh them after I flip
Then if you're town stop being nonsensical, you've got absolutely no reason to town read Scott whatsoever, you acknowledge as much, you've got town reads on lots of other players thereby by process of elimination alone he's a decent chance of being mafia for you so you taking the stance "I've promised myself not to lynch him" doesn't add up. Again you're disregarding his actions as "null" for a meta reason that doesn't flow, what about his meta makes his really weak and incorrect reasoning for town reading Noon and myself null? What about his meta means that where he does focus doesn't look like scumhunting but rather quoting random sections?
I've wrote it before. I've played with scott before and he is capable of doing that as town. I'm not lynching him over people I'm fairly confident are scum, simple as that.
On December 31 2015 03:35 GlowingBear wrote: Cool I've finished catching up.
town Fidei
NocturneMage
Irishbound (the way these three are engaging the thread looks like townies trying to solve the game. They see posts, they react, they go after information to further investigate people's alignment)
Kush (I've played games with kush before and as mafia he really doesn't care, and he seems to care here. He is here, he is commenting stuff. It's a read mostly based on meta, tho)
Shapelog (my weakest townread. I think his excitement to play is genuine, but the way he is engaging the thread is a little more passive than I expect from a townie. His opinions aren't firm. So I think he is townie but I have an eye open regarding him)
Scott is null. I've made a promise to keep him alive for more than one day because he usually plays like this. Actually, those incongruences you've guys found in Scott's post could come from town Scott based on his previous games (I think Battle of the Drams is the one I'm thinking about, but I'm not really sure the name of the game I remember him playing like this as town)
TheCow is null because I have no idea what his posts are actually after, but I think the formatting is SO SO CUUUUTE
Kmatt I had him as mafia, then I reevaluated and thought he might be town (after talking to kush), then he voted me using a very poor reasoning to do so. He is null but very close to scum
mafia mderg (no original thoughts. the guy is just following the thread and rarely putting any original thoughts on the thread. Throw suspicions without going after it, like he did talking about me and kush avoiding each otherm and simply isn't caring for actually uncovering people's alignment)
Onegu (Meta: he is too invested in the game) (Evidence: calls fidei out for a dumb reason as a scumslip, saying Fidei is mafia for saying Onegu is a mislynch. This is bad, but the greatest problem isn't that this is a bad reason to jump on someone. It's because one of Shapelog's first post was this [spoiler]
On December 29 2015 07:02 GlowingBear wrote: I wanted to be blue so much
it's so anti-town to claim vt
I agree with the stone man here. Haven't you learned yet Bear?
He might need another mislynch......
[/spoiler] but he never suspects Shapelog for TMI - Too Much Insight)
Looks like shape scumslipped also.
FTR I dont read shapes posts they give me headaches. So I just skip them.
GB really might be scum here also.
Do you know why that can't be true, Onegu? It's because that post from Shape is one of the first posts of the game, if you truly started reading the game you would see it.
Don't tell me you wouldn't read a one liner but would read that big ass post from Fidei
On December 31 2015 04:08 GlowingBear wrote:Irish, he even said he dropped his scum read on me. It doesn't make any sense to say to NOT vote scott to vote ME (I wasnt a wagon) when his main scum read was the second wagon!!!
He believes that we shouldn't be lynching players with little content as it doesn't provide us with much information to work with regardless of their flip, do I agree that's a good way to play? No, absolutely not. Do I think that's impossible heck even unlikely to come from newer town? No.
If he believes that low content lynches are bad then him ruling both Scott and Giyga makes sense which only leaves you as the scum read he's had throughout the game that's been active so I really don't see this big scum tell you're making out his vote on you to be.
He dropped his scum read on me He accused me of not giving much to talk (being inactive, tho)
So I'm not a player with low content as much as Giygas or scott?
Seriously, his play doesn't stack up to his reads and the fact that you're hard defending it is really giving me pause
On December 31 2015 04:19 Irishbound wrote: Correct you're not a player with as little content as Gigya or Scott. The fact that you're trying to argue otherwise is kind of a joke considering your filter is 4 pages long and theirs is 4 posts long p much.
Worst part is as frustrating and idiotic as your interaction with me here it's actually making me lean town on you.
Oh and before I go for lols I'll take an early punt at the scum team, Scott-Noon-Fidei.
On December 31 2015 04:21 GlowingBear wrote: Kush and fidei are probably town It should be clear that Kmatt is Mafia right now So you think Onegu is town? Mderg also?
Yes, I've got a town read on Onegus reaction towards Fideis post, it's not a particularly strong one but not even remotely interested in lynching there. I do have a very strong town read on Mderg, his reads and thoughts mirror mine when catching up quite often, I can understand his reasoning behind almost all of his reads, I'd almost bet the entire game on him being town.
Want to make an agreement Glowing? We lynch Scott today, if he's mafia like I expect you let me tell you where to put your vote tomorrow, if he flips town you can tell me where to place mine.
We can do the opposite instead.
You lynch Kmatt, if he flips town my vote is yours to use
On December 31 2015 04:28 GlowingBear wrote: We can do the opposite instead. You lynch Kmatt, if he flips town my vote is yours to use
No thanks, I've actually got a town read on Kmatt whereas you don't have a town read on Scott, there's also the fact that Scotts the leading wagon at the moment.
And with that I'm out, I'll try and check this on my phone on my way to work if I get a chance.
Vote Scott 4 Cookies.
Irish, if you keep playing on TL (which I wish becaide I like you playstyle) just know that any future game you play with me and scott I'm NEVER lynching him day1 no matter how scummy he looks
On December 31 2015 02:41 nooniansoong wrote: GB you are oversimplifying how townies think. Sometimes town are wishy washy because they don't know what something means.
wishy washy - could be town honesty about not knowing what something means or it could be scum keeping their options open.
Kush, if you see something as scummy, you say the guy is probably town because there is a 8/11 chance of the guy being town? If we think like that we won't lynch anyone.
Then after some point he says that my post stood out but it doesn't mean I'm from any alignment? Kush, again, if something stands out, it stands out for either alignment. Standing out = alignment indicative posts. Doesn't stand out = NAI.
You can add to that that he was just commenting on this and posting about starcraft in the thread. He is not committed into scumhunting. You do understand what I'm saying, right?
So your main point on Kmatt is the lack of commitment to his read on you? I fail to see how that's enough to justify a lynch D1.
That's not my point anymore
My point is that Giygas is his main scumread and was the second wagon to scott. He started saying that I was fishy but then said it didn't influence my alignment. He proceeded to drop his scumread on me.
Then he suddenly decides I'm a "dangerous player" (? what does this even mean) and that scott's flip won't reveal much information. Instead of convincing people to vote his main scumread (who was the opposite wagon at that time), he decided to vote me. Which doesn't make sense because:
1) He said my "fishiness" couldn't reveal anything from my alignment, so his suspicions on me were weaker than the suspicions on Giygas 2) He DROPPED his scumread on me 3) If the problem is that scott's wagon won't reveal any information, he should rather lynch his main scumread because it at least is the most probable wagon to flip instead of mine.
ROFL I decided to give Diablo III another shot since a lot of people said it got better after some revamp
Conclusion: I can't understand how someone can respect a game when a class' main attack is THROWING JARS WITH SPIDERS ON PEOPLE Or SUMMONING BELLS FROM THE HEAVENS AND SMASHING THEM ROFL
On December 31 2015 06:21 GlowingBear wrote: ROFL I decided to give Diablo III another shot since a lot of people said it got better after some revamp
Conclusion: I can't understand how someone can respect a game when a class' main attack is THROWING JARS WITH SPIDERS ON PEOPLE Or SUMMONING BELLS FROM THE HEAVENS AND SMASHING THEM ROFL
On December 31 2015 06:15 GlowingBear wrote: Scott, vote Kmatt with me.
Was there something new you had an issue with or was this the same stuff from last night? If it was the same stuff from last night, is it completely unfathomable from newbie town to do what he did? This is one key thing to me, that makes Cow more town than you - he's trying to frame the situation from one that is believeable from his perspective.
That's not my point anymore
My point is that Giygas is his main scumread and was the second wagon to scott. He started saying that I was fishy but then said it didn't influence my alignment. He proceeded to drop his scumread on me.
Then he suddenly decides I'm a "dangerous player" (? what does this even mean) and that scott's flip won't reveal much information. Instead of convincing people to vote his main scumread (who was the opposite wagon at that time), he decided to vote me. Which doesn't make sense because:
1) He said my "fishiness" couldn't reveal anything from my alignment, so his suspicions on me were weaker than the suspicions on Giygas 2) He DROPPED his scumread on me 3) If the problem is that scott's wagon won't reveal any information, he should rather lynch his main scumread because it at least is the most probable wagon to flip instead of mine.
That definitely makes more sense. I can understand why he would call you a "more dangerous player", though. But his vote comes off as strange.[/quote]
On December 31 2015 07:06 NocturneMage wrote: I need to reassess everyone on the scott wagon it looks like. Regarding Irish, honestly, nothing is jumping out right now, and Irish's continued reasoning for scumming Scott, honestly I can't argue that because Irish did have a reason to town Onegu even though I'm not sure I fully agreed with it, I don't see that it could make him scum.
The early voting makes him more townie and I didn't get a chance to fully look through Noon today which was his other willing vote. I know someone pinged me out earlier for putting Noon in the lynch list but that was because he was going after KMatt for white knighting or something and then didn't follow up at the time I looked at him.
I am curious to see where people are calling Irish tryhard scum. He really believed in the case on Scott.
On December 29 2015 07:29 Irishbound wrote: I can already tell my complete lack of meta or understanding of what happend in prior games you guys have played together is going to make it difficult to scumhunt and follow some conversations.
Know it's a weak thing but I'm leaning town on Noonian already, think scum would be less likely to be so brazen to make #62 and like his instant "That's anti-town to do" reaction towards Glowings statement.
I understand that we're meant to be voting in a separate thread to make it easier for the mod to tally up votes but I'd appreciate if everyone also posted here with their vote -- it'll make following the game and reading into context behind votes much easier than attempting to line up timestamps of when people voted in comparison to their thoughts/posts in here.
@Glowing - Who is this Kush you're voting?
Alright so starting off, I'm not sure I agree with this read and some of this boils down to the definition of anti-town.
On December 29 2015 07:02 GlowingBear wrote: I wanted to be blue so much
it's so anti-town to claim vt
The use of "anti-town" here could be coming from either alignment, when anti-town is considered to mean not just scummy, but possibly also from town not acting in the best interest of town. Any VT (when referencing GB's comment) saying "I wish I was blue" can be considered anti-town because one can make the argument that claiming VT narrows down the field for mafia to find who the blue(s) are. So this can be considered anti-town (not in the best interest) even if the comment is coming from town. To this end, and seeing that Irishbound is an experienced mafia player, it's safe to say this comment should not have warranted the town read that he gave him. To me, this read should have been null at best, as I feel a comment like this could come from either alignment.
On this alone, that's a scumlean, but I'll continue through the rest of the thread.
In other words: if I think someone saying a player is a mislynch is Mafia, he either scum read every player that slips or he doesn't scumread anyone. The double standards shows that Onegu doesn't really believe what he is saying. Therefore, he is actively trying to lynch someone under the basis of something he doesn't really believe it makes someone Mafia.
On December 31 2015 23:45 nooniansoong wrote: GB where did he say "then shape is mafia too" he said he doesn't read shape. Do you think he's lying? I can understand him not reading shape.
ONEGU is shape mafia too due to the scumslip?
Yes I beliebe he is lying. it's one of the first posts in the game. He can decide to not read him after some time but I doubt he didn't read the very first posts of everyone if he really started to read the thread.
Anyway, after I quoted it, Onegu just called the guy Mafia but quickly forgets about him
On December 31 2015 23:55 nooniansoong wrote: ok gb i found it. he says "then shape scumslipped too" but he doesn't say if he thinks shape is mafia or not.
Kush ROFL if someone says "HE SCUM SLIPPED TOOL they are calling the guy Mafia.
On December 31 2015 23:55 nooniansoong wrote: ok gb i found it. he says "then shape scumslipped too" but he doesn't say if he thinks shape is mafia or not.
Kush ROFL if someone says "HE SCUM SLIPPED TOOL they are calling the guy Mafia.
LMAO are you high right now?
I haven't smoked weed for several months now. My job drug tests so I had to quit. Weed is magical but it is also very addictive for me. In some ways I'm glad I stopped, but I still miss it. Now I just drink a lot instead.
Shape is known to spam, so he could have chosen to ignore shape before reading his first posts. Although I think a more townie approach would be to read shape until a townread could be formed, and only then start ignoring him.
I am interested in how Onegu clarifies his feelings towards Shape, given the scumslip.
Anything can be said right now. He can find any excuse. I won't trust any, so whatever.
On December 31 2015 04:21 GlowingBear wrote: Kush and fidei are probably town It should be clear that Kmatt is Mafia right now So you think Onegu is town? Mderg also?
Yes, I've got a town read on Onegus reaction towards Fideis post, it's not a particularly strong one but not even remotely interested in lynching there. I do have a very strong town read on Mderg, his reads and thoughts mirror mine when catching up quite often, I can understand his reasoning behind almost all of his reads, I'd almost bet the entire game on him being town.
Want to make an agreement Glowing? We lynch Scott today, if he's mafia like I expect you let me tell you where to put your vote tomorrow, if he flips town you can tell me where to place mine.
Page 28.
This is either a big ass mafia slip (which btw, mderg copied his scum slip from me! look at the filter its their.) Or one huge town tell
On December 31 2015 02:24 GlowingBear wrote: This is what I don't like on Kmatt. He says I'm fishy but keeps backtracking on it. It just feels like he is trying to give an opinion while not really relying on it. Am I fishy or not? What does fishy means? Mafia? If so, why not just saying I'm scummy and going against it?
Prior to Wednesday morning I was still undecided. However that morning I re-read the filter again and saw some stuff I didn't like.
Firstly, the townread on Irish, while later found to be true, didn't have any real ground to it. Irish makes a townread on Kush that he himself says is weak (from a single day 1 post mind you).
On December 29 2015 07:29 Irishbound wrote: I can already tell my complete lack of meta or understanding of what happend in prior games you guys have played together is going to make it difficult to scumhunt and follow some conversations.
Know it's a weak thing but I'm leaning town on Noonian already, think scum would be less likely to be so brazen to make #62 and like his instant "That's anti-town to do" reaction towards Glowings statement.
I understand that we're meant to be voting in a separate thread to make it easier for the mod to tally up votes but I'd appreciate if everyone also posted here with their vote -- it'll make following the game and reading into context behind votes much easier than attempting to line up timestamps of when people voted in comparison to their thoughts/posts in here.
@Glowing - Who is this Kush you're voting?
You're the quickest townread I have ever had!
Hi! Welcome to the forums!
Kush is nooniasoong. This account he is using is actually a smurf. Every time I talk about kush, I am talking about nooniasoong.
Don't worry with meta. I think most of us in this thread doesn't use it. But we may talk about past games. It won't take much part of the game, so you can relax
How did you get a townread on him for that post?
Pretty much sincere opening with him giving an opinion right away on what he likes. Sounds like someone who feels free to play the game without concern of how he looks.
So he thinks the single opening post was "sincere", even though Irish even doubted his own credibility. Looks to me like he just gave that out at the first person he could read just so he could have a townread for everyone to see. The he just fullquotes Irish's next post to say he agrees and nothing else.
On December 29 2015 09:47 Irishbound wrote: @Kmatt - Thanks for your elaboration on your Glowing scum lean, I don't agree with it at all but I can at least understand it now. I think being "helpful" in that manner is more playstyle based combined with the being a newbie game and don't think it's an issue, if anything the phrasing behind his town read on me "You're the quickest town read I've ever had" actually came across as genuine and am leaning town on him at the moment.
@Glowing - I don't make anything of NM's opening in #194 at all, is your "I like this opening" in an alignment indicative sense or just find it enjoyable? Kind of hard to tell from what you wrote.
@NM - I am well aware of the definition of "Anti-Town", what I liked was the speed of Noons reaction towards Glowings comment (The difference between it being posted and his response was 1 minute) which fits more with a natural townie reaction towards the comment being "That's going to hurt us" one and while I don't doubt that it's fake-able for mafia to do that I just find that mafia are more likely to think through the post or it's consequences more there. Again it's not a strong town read but out of everything that had occurred at the time it's only town read I had.
I like it like it's coming from town. His tone feels like carefree too.
Then another townread on Shapelog for no explained reason.
On December 30 2015 03:28 GlowingBear wrote: Because you could've just left and keep laddering. Instead, you've stayed here, wanting to play the game, anxious for more content to be posted. This kind of excited is something that usually comes from town and is rarely faked by Mafia
I'm gonna take a Nap and keep catching up
So someone's active in the thread on the first day. Groundbreaking analysis right here folks. Just like with Irish he declares the guy town out of the blue and follows up with "evidence" with made-up context.
Then comes the scumread on me. Oh, now he's digging deep, ready to contribute to the most important discussion in the thread at the moment. Let's see what thread contributions he has with his declared lynch target.
On December 30 2015 07:39 GlowingBear wrote: Ok fully caught up
I'm voting Kmatt because reasons
##Vote: Kmatt
k
Well just like with his other reads he pulls that from seemingly nowhere. At least everyone can see he's a real scumhunter, throwing out the dangerous vote! Stay tuned for the full scoop.
On December 30 2015 07:55 Shapelog wrote: Don't pull a onegu on me. Why do you think hes scummy.
Before I answer: do you have any reads on him?
Shapelog literally handed you the soapbox to voice your actual case that you actually have for everyone to hear and examine. Instead you turn the question back for him. Why would you need someone else to discuss this read? You already have one (or so we're told)!
On December 30 2015 09:22 GlowingBear wrote: I think Kmatt's filter has been wishy washy, that's why I voted him. I could quoting and explaining my rwas but I'm actually too lazy right now to put effort
I'm also playing another game which from times to times keeps me from giving my full attention to this one
So how many posts is he going to use before he starts contributing to the thread. He posted reads, asked questions with no real follow-up or conclusions, and now wants other people to discuss a case he himself refuses to acknowledge. Imagine if every post I quoted so far was never posted. How much information would we have missed? How much further from winning would we be? Oh right nowhere because he's not actually contributing anything.
Surely he's not just making these posts to clog the thread and bait responses, right? That's so obviously scum behavior, so clearly
On December 30 2015 09:36 GlowingBear wrote: I usually delay explanation and post just votes and questions just to have people talking. If I answered you right at that moment I would destroy this premise. So I was just trying to have people talking about it for a longer time.
On December 30 2015 10:42 NocturneMage wrote: GB, two that I recall. In Newbie 14, Scott was engaged with the thread, and very active and made strides to solve that game. You were mafia in that game, Fidei threw in 2:1 lylo. In my last newbie, he was town but not as engaged and scum Trfel pushed him to death day 1. I'm loathe to use meta so I would rather opt to flesh him out as much as I can in this current game. His scum games, he is not quite as active or does very little, but as I've never actually been in a game with him as scum, I'd rather just flesh him out.
If you check most of his games, he is mainly inactive.
Don't you think it is kinda early to consider him mafia?
When did making early reads become a problem? For some reason you're suddenly hesitant to call Scott Mafia, even though NM never actually accused him of scum, just wanted to pressure him. But we'll come back to that.
On December 30 2015 12:33 NocturneMage wrote: I need to head to bed, but with where my head is, I think the lynch list needs to be somewhere in this:
Noon/GB/Scott
Further fleshing out: Scott/Fidei/GigyaS Last resort/policy lynch: Onegu
For GigyaS there was one post that I felt was unlikely to come from scum, but considering where he's not been in thread for >24h now, getting a mindset read with all that has happened is I think pretty important with a few of the concerns brought up.
The fact that I believe kush is likely to be town and that scott is impossible to know right now makes me want to lynch you very hard.
Anyway I know I'm lacking contribution. I'll step up tomorrow.
Alright so now you're threatening a lynch based on the fact that you have opposing reads. And by "reads", I mean you called Kush 'town'. Note that posts like this still aren't developing any claims, just showing off that he's totally scumhunting for real guys. At least he's become self-aware, that's good, right?
On December 31 2015 00:30 GlowingBear wrote: I did forget.
I will be reading the thread in one hour from now, then I'll give inputs. Still, I think Scott isn't the lynch for today
Irish, I will be answering you soon.
So still no info other than that Scott isn't a lynch target. He just claimed that he was null (and therefore possibly scum) but now Scott is off the board. Of course there's no actual analysis or anything, just look at the shiny claim.
On December 31 2015 02:24 GlowingBear wrote: This is what I don't like on Kmatt. He says I'm fishy but keeps backtracking on it. It just feels like he is trying to give an opinion while not really relying on it. Am I fishy or not? What does fishy means? Mafia? If so, why not just saying I'm scummy and going against it?
Alright almost 19 hours later he finally has a reason for his vote. I'm indecisive on my read towards him and therefore am scum. Now while I don't agree with his logic (if I were scum I wouldn't have to doubt my reasons for wanting him dead, since I'd know he's a kill target anyway I don't even need a valid "reason". Sound familiar?), at least he finally posts something marginally substantial. He then uses five more posts to explain the same point that indecisiveness=scum.
On December 31 2015 03:01 GlowingBear wrote: And now I think mderg is mafia, kush.
Mderg and Onegu.
Oh look two more scumreads! Again, no content, no explanation, just "hey these guys are scum". He's practically got this entire game figured out by now. At least he shares that much insight with us.
Then TheCow decides to play and starts asking questions to garner information to analyze and develop a case. What does our hero do?
On December 30 2015 12:07 TheCow wrote: This post is being written as of post 415.
@Kmatt Before we proceed, I'd like to ask you three quick questions just to get a better understanding of you as a player. 1) How much experience do you have with the game Mafia? 2) How do you feel about this game in its current state? 3) In one sentence, describe yourself as a person. (not a question, but close enough ._.)
@Irish
On December 30 2015 11:25 Irishbound wrote: @TheCow - I'll need you to explain a few things for me; 1) Given that you're aware your secondary scum read has two votes on them and your initial one has none why didn't you vote Scott and ensure that a scum read of yours has a higher chance of getting lynched? 2) Can you explain your conflicted reads on myself and GB in some detail for me and 3) What makes you not trust your ability to read Fidelis and Onegu?
1) I did not and do not want to narrow my own and the threads field of vision by simply bandwagoning the leading wagon. Aside from that, Scott's activity level would waste the pressure of a vote -- much unlike Kmatt who is here now. 2) You, Irish, I had as topscum for a little while when I was catching up. Between that time and me catching up, you managed to redeem yourself in my eyes and became a void read. GB, I am conflicted because though they have been somewhat anti-town, they have not been overtly scummy -- or enough for a vote, at least. 3) Onegu looks like a player who is mislynch bait and without meta-experience, I do not feel comfortable making a definitive read without more evidence. For Fidelis, here is a quote from my notes: + Show Spoiler +
[Fidea] seems to be the type of player I will scumread into oblivion regardless of their actual alignment.
I have always had issues reading players like Fidea -- just their style and attitude doesn't mesh well with me.
Oh an image macro. Information and analysis are for nerds anyway.
Now we go back to the Onegu scumread. If you can even call it that.
On December 31 2015 03:08 nooniansoong wrote: but onegu
On December 31 2015 01:13 Onegu wrote: Kush is odd. Like he doesnt qualify for the onegu rule because he didnt call me scum.
Onegu rule is I troll and post little day one and if you call me scum for it you are scum looking for a mislynch. But since kush says it is complete policy he is fine.
What I do find kinda odd is kush is a very similar player to me. And last game when he was scum and people wanted to lynch him day one I was the one who said give him time. Yet this game he wants to lynch me? Why didnt he want to lynch me in the last game we just played. Doesnt make much since to me that he wants to do it this game but not last game.
it would have been so easy for him to scumread me there are he didnt.
He usually does this to get towncred. My very first game with him he did it as scum. He defended me when I was getting scumread.
I actually have a good reason to call Onegu scum
So he's meta-gaming from that one time Onegu made a similar post while being Mafia. Leak-proof case right here.
Now TheCow comes back to share his ideas with the thread. How will GB contribute to finding answers?
On December 30 2015 12:32 TheCow wrote: This post is being written as of 425.
===
Regarding my early-game read on Irish. Irish's comment of scott "bandwagoning" noonian felt like an overreaction and the usage of the buzzword (##aside <I realize the irony of using this word>) left a bad taste in my mouth. The entirety of 185 looked like shade, with that bit on 168 also sticking out. This worry was partially extinguished by giaga lamping 172.
Distancing occurred between Kmatt and Irish in the early game with Irish putting (from a SvS PoV) unnecessary pressure onto Kmatt. This caused minor polarizations in my reads. At this moment, Irish was gut-scum. #236 furthered this read.
The developments in my Kmatt and Scott reads contributed to me reevaluating my Irish read. Upon reevaluating the earlier posts in the context of the later posts, things started to line up in a more town-ish way especially with the recent #395. So ultimately it was a null read.
Would you like me to go into more specific detail and do post analysis, or does an overview suffice?
Awwwwww!
This guy is so cute
What compels you to hit "Post"? What could we possibly gain from this? At least Shapelog's spam was kind of funny, this is just stupid. Again, TheCow is trying to figure out the game, you try to be an epic trole.
On December 31 2015 03:08 nooniansoong wrote: but onegu
On December 31 2015 01:13 Onegu wrote: Kush is odd. Like he doesnt qualify for the onegu rule because he didnt call me scum.
Onegu rule is I troll and post little day one and if you call me scum for it you are scum looking for a mislynch. But since kush says it is complete policy he is fine.
What I do find kinda odd is kush is a very similar player to me. And last game when he was scum and people wanted to lynch him day one I was the one who said give him time. Yet this game he wants to lynch me? Why didnt he want to lynch me in the last game we just played. Doesnt make much since to me that he wants to do it this game but not last game.
it would have been so easy for him to scumread me there are he didnt.
He usually does this to get towncred. My very first game with him he did it as scum. He defended me when I was getting scumread.
I actually have a good reason to call Onegu scum
Your reason is?
Alright time for a shot at redemption. Let's see GB post his case to help further figure out the game. All he has to do is not deflect, ignore, or shitpost...
On December 30 2015 23:30 Kmatt wrote: Pretty much the same sentiment as above for me. I leave for work in 30 mins and don't get out until 5pm Burger-time (vote o'clock).
However I am going to assert that GB is the more dangerous target. Sure, Scott was acting "scummy" by not really participating, but he hasn't really derailed the thread or caused trouble (yet). GB on the other hand is an active poster who has been calling quite a few scumreads (myself included) with virtually no justification, as well as some very empty townreads. The fishy interactions with Noon are enough to seal the deal for me.
More importantly, if we were to lynch Scott, we would learn almost nothing. Even if he came up scum, his posts have been so hollow that we wouldn't have a solid lead to go from there. Unless GB can clean up his act in time, there's a lot more to be gained out of him.
##unvote GiygaS ##vote GlowingBear
This is bad, I was just townreading you :/
U wot m8. When the hell did I become town again? I know you have no standards but come on.
As for myself I'm going to explain the point raised against me.
My read onto GiygaS was kind of BS. I was getting flak (mostly from GB) for being indecisive and not presenting solid reads. I understand that doesn't help the game so I had to take a shot at something. I didn't have any solid scumreads (was reconsidering GB at the time of the GiygaS vote), so I decided to turn my attention to my least favorite AFK player. No I couldn't defend my scumread on GiygaS but I was being pressured to make a call so I made one. As for why I switched to GB, see above. If I didn't mention it already, I had work that day and wouldn't be back in time before the 5:00pm window closed, so I wouldn't get to make this wall of text. Without presenting my reasoning I didn't have a reason to expect anyone else to follow me, but I'd rather make my vote count towards something more important than my forced GiygaS read.
Now comes GB's wall of text. Have a look at this gem
On December 31 2015 03:35 GlowingBear wrote: Scott is null. I've made a promise to keep him alive for more than one day because he usually plays like this. Actually, those incongruences you've guys found in Scott's post could come from town Scott based on his previous games (I think Battle of the Drams is the one I'm thinking about, but I'm not really sure the name of the game I remember him playing like this as town)
Once again Scott is a no-lynch for now a poorly-founded meta reason. Any grievances people had against him written off as Scott doing it as town in other games. The good part comes up next.
On December 31 2015 03:35 GlowingBear wrote: Kmatt I had him as mafia, then I reevaluated and thought he might be town (after talking to kush), then he voted me using a very poor reasoning to do so. He is null but very close to scum.
Who was it that raised a fuss because I was being "wishy-washy"? Suddenly in spite of all my heinous crimes (worthy of an insta-vote, mind you), suddenly Kush convinced him that my behavior actually makes me town (when did this even happen?) but now I'm almost scum again. Maybe I'd understand this train of thought better if he posted something of substance every now and again. But then again, that would take away time from posting silly dog pictures.
At this time, scott31337 is slated to be lynched. Day 1 ends in on Wednesday, Dec 30 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00).
The voting thread is here. Only votes there will be counted.
Actualy ROFL the thinks scott is a bad lynch when his main scumread IS THE SECOND WAGON but instead of arguing people should vote Gyigas with him he UNVOTES HIS MAIN SCUMREAD to VOTE ME while saying multiple times I could be town.
Now he's back on me again because my vote on him was unfounded and that I wasn't hard committing to GiygaS.
On December 31 2015 03:56 GlowingBear wrote:I would never hard align myself with scott this way if I was Mafia with him. Literally never. But do as you please, as long as you read my scum reads and lynxh them after I flip
Then if you're town stop being nonsensical, you've got absolutely no reason to town read Scott whatsoever, you acknowledge as much, you've got town reads on lots of other players thereby by process of elimination alone he's a decent chance of being mafia for you so you taking the stance "I've promised myself not to lynch him" doesn't add up. Again you're disregarding his actions as "null" for a meta reason that doesn't flow, what about his meta makes his really weak and incorrect reasoning for town reading Noon and myself null? What about his meta means that where he does focus doesn't look like scumhunting but rather quoting random sections?
I've wrote it before. I've played with scott before and he is capable of doing that as town. I'm not lynching him over people I'm fairly confident are scum, simple as that.
So with tensions running high and the vote drawing near...
On December 31 2015 06:21 GlowingBear wrote: ROFL I decided to give Diablo III another shot since a lot of people said it got better after some revamp
Conclusion: I can't understand how someone can respect a game when a class' main attack is THROWING JARS WITH SPIDERS ON PEOPLE Or SUMMONING BELLS FROM THE HEAVENS AND SMASHING THEM ROFL
And he's shitposting again.
And now for the killing blow towards any faith I had left in this guy
On December 31 2015 06:47 scott31337 wrote: Im voting with Onegu instead
Then I'm voting you Scott, sorry, but I have a stronger townread on him than you
You wot m8?
After so adamantly asserting that I'm scum and defending Scott's town status (based on some meta read) since day one, you completely flip the boat because you don't like how he's voting.
So why am I telling you all of this?
A townie has no reason to shitpost past the opening banter. GB repeatedly shitposts throughout the thread. A townie has no reason to avoid posting his own cases when prompted. GB deflects questions towards his reads twice now. A townie has no reason to derail someone else's analysis and arguments that could help solve the game. GB attempts to derail discussion and arguments multiple times while contributing nothing to said discussion. A townie with no information about the other players would have no reason to vehemently defend Scott's innocence without a case and then completely throw him under the bus at the last second. You know the rest
And most of all
A townie wouldn't make reads about players with virtually nothing to back them up, but have no hesitation posting them for everyone to see. Every read should be in support or against a lynch vote. Almost none of GBs reads contribute towards that goal.
Unless of course GB had a reason to convince the thread that he's scumhunting without actually helping solve the game. That reason being the GB is a mafia player. If I'm not being clear or commital enough here:
##vote GlowingBear
I'm off to bed. I'll respond with what I can in the morning.
Wow what a GIGANTIC case. You may be town after all!
There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first.
On January 03 2016 00:37 NocturneMage wrote: Catching up on the rest of the thread, though I just read through that wall of text, my god that was painful. I disagree with the summary comment from GigyaS because that was anything but. I know people solely summarising is generally a scummy tactic, but he is providing interpretations.
I'm looking most specifically at how KMatt portrayed some of GB's attacks on him. Some of his context IS off compared to the way a lot of us are seeing things, but I wouldn't expect a newbie to understand what reaction tests are for instance.
I'm also going to say newb town on that.
Just to clarify, it wasn't a reaction test per se. I didn't expect specific answers that could come from one or other alignment. I've just wanted to have more people dropping thoughts in the thread, and an unexplained vote is great for that
On January 03 2016 00:50 Onegu wrote: GB not deciding to defend himself just saying it is a town case from kmatt is really telling.
And yes I will be tunneled on to fword dude and GB until they are dead, I am dead or it is lylo then I will reevaluate in lylo. Tunnel for now.
I never care for cases written on me when I'm town, simply because everything is automatically wrong. If Kmatt wishes that I comment anything about it, I will, but I've skipped it by default
On January 03 2016 00:38 GlowingBear wrote: There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first.
I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play.
##vote GB
His other reads were town reads dude, why would I take that into consideration when deciding who to lynch now? Rofl
On January 03 2016 01:19 NocturneMage wrote: My take on GB, going through his filter.
Points that make GB scummy
(1) Engagement with KMatt was poor when he initially scumread him and early on I felt he didn't do anything with his reaction test (or whatever it is) that got any alignment indicative information on Shapelog (the only other person interacting at the time), etc. This I thought was scummy from GB.
(2) This post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/500060-newbie-student-mafia-xviii?page=31#615 Kush voting with Onegu was after Onegu gave one reason for voting Fidei and Kush at that time gave a separate reason for voting Fidei. So I don't think this is unreasonable and it looks like you are taking the situation out of context.
(3) The post on killing GigyaS is bad because D1 nightkills yield little information, like I did in a few of the games I've played you need multiple nights of NK WIFOM analysis or NK WIFOM analysis with something else to more reasonably go after someone.
(4) Stance on mderg. From what I can tell mderg has posted in and out of the thread since GB has made his initial scumread on him and GB seems pretty content to call him mafia without (from what I can tell) any re-evaluation.
(5) Related to (4), hard stance on Onegu in nightphase - he's saying that Onegu cannot possibly believe what he's saying/double standards on him and Shapelog but then he takes a read based on LESS RELIABLE INFORMATION (NK WIFOM from night 1) and wants to lynch GigyaS over what from his perspective should be MORE RELIABLE INFORMATION (Onegu cannot believe what he's possibly saying).
The problem with this is that both GB and Onegu are calling each other mafia, Onegu is straightaway lynching GB, GB isn't lynching Onegu straightaway though, so I'm trying to figure out if this could be the surface of double bussing or what.
(1) I've just explained that it wasn't a reaction test, it was just to have people discussing. This means that how people react doesn't matter. So I don't necessarily was expecting a response from Shapelog and I don't necessarily need to infer anything from his responses. Also, have in mind that although I've posted a vote without reasoning, it doesn't mean I didn't have a read on Kmatt. I did.
(2) I didn't click on the post lol so I don't know what you're talking about, I will check it after I post this.
(3) Fair enough. I had in mind that if I wasn't going to be killed night1 it was because I was wrong (my reads differ from basically everyone in the thread, I supposed that if I was right I would die, therefore, my reads are wrong and I should re-check Irish's scum reads). But you are right.
(4) Lurking isn't the reason I am scum reading him, so coming in and out of the thread doesn't matter. What matters is HOW he is doing it, and he is being very selective on what to talk about and not really pursuing any person to further investigate people's alignment, which makes me think he is scum.
(5) You're right, again. I should be voting Onegu.
Re: (4) I didn't say you were scumreading mderg for lurking. I am saying that he is providing new content (re-entering thread, that wasn't supposed to be a lurking context) and then you are not re-evaluating him on that.
On (4) you still think his approach after his latest bit of posting is scummy?
Yes, I think his approach to the game is the same since the beginning of the game
On January 03 2016 00:55 Fidei86 wrote: Only two points on GB: 1. His early reads were mostly town reads and were short, but that fits in with him being in another game. Kmatt puts a lot of emphasis on that in his case, but it's NAI if anything. In my mind it's more towny than anything as he would find it harder to walk back if he needed for a ML. 2. My experience of playing GB is that he struggles to maintain calm when he plays as scum. In the game we played together, he was much more acerbic and less flexible with his reads. He's different here - note #736 where he re-evaluates on Kmatt.
GB is an experienced player who probably could change up his meta, but I think he's probably town. He's not the lynch today for sure.
What do you think about GB's voting GigyaS and then Onegu after I explained my issues with him? And especially voting GigyaS after going hard on Onegu from the perspective that Onegu couldn't possibly believe what he is saying night 1?
Another point against GB is that in spite of him being confident that mderg is scum (not so much the last post, that was after the fact but I'm referring to post 735), still why GigyaS over either of those two? How does this make sense from a town perspective?
I've just explained why I voted Giygas instead of my main scumreads??
On January 03 2016 01:41 GlowingBear wrote: Mderg, what's your read on Koshi?
Koshi is always town. He's not in this game, though.
ROFL I meant Onegu
He's meh. Not much actual content coming from him and he isn't trying that much to bring the discussion forwards. For the most part he was just going after the supposed scumslip. His extreme insistence on lynching Fidei for the scumslip makes me think he's town but I wouldn't be surprised, if he was scum.
So, probably town but I don't want to be the one to make the decision on him.
On January 02 2016 03:15 mderg wrote: I kind of just want to lynch Onegu, GB and kush because reading through that scumslip discussion was so annoying.
On December 31 2015 04:21 GlowingBear wrote: Kush and fidei are probably town It should be clear that Kmatt is Mafia right now So you think Onegu is town? Mderg also?
Yes, I've got a town read on Onegus reaction towards Fideis post, it's not a particularly strong one but not even remotely interested in lynching there. I do have a very strong town read on Mderg, his reads and thoughts mirror mine when catching up quite often, I can understand his reasoning behind almost all of his reads, I'd almost bet the entire game on him being town.
Want to make an agreement Glowing? We lynch Scott today, if he's mafia like I expect you let me tell you where to put your vote tomorrow, if he flips town you can tell me where to place mine.
Page 28.
This is either a big ass mafia slip (which btw, mderg copied his scum slip from me! look at the filter its their.) Or one huge town tell
This may be the hangover but I don't quite get the part about me.
On January 03 2016 04:00 nooniansoong wrote: Mderg shape onegu are scum I think
To be fair I am fairly suspicious of shape also. His "excitement" to play the game doesn't fit with his inactivity and the way he is NOT trying to solve the game
On January 04 2016 05:27 The Shining wrote: Hey guys. I'm caught up. Looks like I have a little under 2 hours before EoD and GB and Onegu are the lynches? They're pretty close(4-3) which indicates to me one may actually be scum, although I haven't really analyzed the cases on either of them yet.
I will say Onegu has activity here that I'm def not used to in the few games I've played with him, which makes him a bit questionable to me and he is stuck solely on Onegu-centric reads and the "scumslip" from Fidei but I don't actually think it's a scumflip. When I read it, I understood it as Onegu being the easiest ML when he's town, it was definitely implied throughout the wording of the entire post.
I saw Kmatts post asking me about thoughts and his case on GB and from what I can remember during reading, GB felt pretty nice and lax and trying to be friends with everyone, although it being a Newbie game probably makes that NAI vs scum buddying. I'll go read his filter first to make a final decision and answer Kmatts post, then get to Onegu.
Give me some help here, I'm not mafia and I have no idea why there are at least 2 townies voting me
NocturneMage - he is either townie or good mafia. If you successfully lynched two mafia out of that list I've wrote and is in LYLO, you lynch this guy 100% of the times. You don't have to worry about him until LYLO, tho, since he is more likely to be town. I can't explain this read very well, but trust me.
On January 04 2016 05:27 The Shining wrote: Hey guys. I'm caught up. Looks like I have a little under 2 hours before EoD and GB and Onegu are the lynches? They're pretty close(4-3) which indicates to me one may actually be scum, although I haven't really analyzed the cases on either of them yet.
I will say Onegu has activity here that I'm def not used to in the few games I've played with him, which makes him a bit questionable to me and he is stuck solely on Onegu-centric reads and the "scumslip" from Fidei but I don't actually think it's a scumflip. When I read it, I understood it as Onegu being the easiest ML when he's town, it was definitely implied throughout the wording of the entire post.
I saw Kmatts post asking me about thoughts and his case on GB and from what I can remember during reading, GB felt pretty nice and lax and trying to be friends with everyone, although it being a Newbie game probably makes that NAI vs scum buddying. I'll go read his filter first to make a final decision and answer Kmatts post, then get to Onegu.
Give me some help here, I'm not mafia and I have no idea why there are at least 2 townies voting me
Help me help you here. Explain a few things to me. How did Fidei end up at the top of your town list without being explained? Or did I miss it? Because that TR was so strong that you decided to vote Scott, who you said you'd never lynch D1, over Fidei because that TR was stronger.
Also, how did you land on never lynch me over 1-2 posts since I replaced? Lol.
He was engaging the game in a fairly townie way and Onegu's reason to try to lynch him is horrendous and I'm fairly certain Onegu is scum, which makes Fidei probably town.
On January 04 2016 07:07 The Shining wrote: Well I fucked that. I can't even be mad at anyone but myself. Giygas, I'm pretty sure I know why but I just want to hear it from you. Why did you switch?
GB you were just saved. Start shitting townie rainbows pls? Super close lynch like this and I'm feeling like I chose wrong...bah
I promise you I'm town this game and I didn't try to deceive you
On January 04 2016 07:07 The Shining wrote: Well I fucked that. I can't even be mad at anyone but myself. Giygas, I'm pretty sure I know why but I just want to hear it from you. Why did you switch?
GB you were just saved. Start shitting townie rainbows pls? Super close lynch like this and I'm feeling like I chose wrong...bah
I promise you I'm town this game and I didn't try to deceive you
You answered the Fidei TR, thanks, but why did you have me as never lynch?
No mafia asks for a replacement for being unable to play. They can use it to survive through days. People that ask for a replacement is usually town concerned of ruining other people's game.
On January 04 2016 07:07 The Shining wrote: Well I fucked that. I can't even be mad at anyone but myself. Giygas, I'm pretty sure I know why but I just want to hear it from you. Why did you switch?
GB you were just saved. Start shitting townie rainbows pls? Super close lynch like this and I'm feeling like I chose wrong...bah
I promise you I'm town this game and I didn't try to deceive you
You answered the Fidei TR, thanks, but why did you have me as never lynch?
No mafia asks for a replacement for being unable to play. They can use it to survive through days. People that ask for a replacement is usually town concerned of ruining other people's game.
So you think Shape is town, too? Don't you think it's also likely scum being unable to play would also ask for a replacement to not risk being modkilled and screwing over their scumteam? That feels NAI, at best, to me. I'm not sure it warrants a read either way. And I've def seen scum replace out before. Hm.
I have never ever seen scum replacing out.
And when he host confirms in thread his girlfriend's message will be sent, it means it's not a plan from Mafia, it means the message was genuine. If it was his plan as Mafia the host wouldn't post interfere
On January 04 2016 07:15 Kmatt wrote: Well. That was an interesting turn of events.
While I haven't given up my claim against GB (possibly even stronger now), Shining definitely got me thinking about the voting patterns. I had my suspicions about Shapelog but was hoping for the GB reveal to give me the info I needed.
I'm leaving for a while, and will probably spend most of the night phase working this out. And that's to say nothing of a potential NK.
I didn't directly answer your question before but I didn't forget about you.
On January 03 2016 11:18 Kmatt wrote: Don't know if anyone else just noticed but TheCow has been replaced by The Shining. I had my theories on Cow, but since his "character" has been replaced more or less I'd like our "new" friend to weigh in on some current events. Obviously he should read the thread when appropriate, but for when he's finished:
1) Seeing the previous days' discussion in the context current death toll, who or what do you think the biggest factor in Scott's mislynch was? 2) Similarly, why do you think the mafia went for Irish on the first night? (technically if we have both a doctor and vigilante in this game then that might not have been the case but for the sake of argument I'll assume Irish's death was the mafia's doing) Did any of his reads stand out to you or did any arguments he put out seem to be catching on with the thread? 3) Could you weigh in on my GB case? Obviously my opinion on the matter is plain to see, so I'd like to see some other people bounce ideas off of it. Do you think I over-reacted or overlooked anything in my wall of text?
Granted, anyone is invited to answer these, but since I didn't get to see much from Cow before he left, I'd like a bit more insight from his replacement.
Irish flipped town and I have a pretty solid TR on NM, who are the first 2 votes on Scott. Irish also pushed this lynch pretty hard. I believe the lynch was a case of town adamantly pushing the town ML and scum having to do zero work on it. I wouldn't be surprised if there was only one scum on the Scott wagon and the rest were off-wagon. Like kush/noon. If i choose to believe GB is town, that leaves me with mderg/Fidei/Giygas as one of the scum on the Scott wagon.
Kush can you explain to me how you went from voting Fidei WITH Onegu D1 to voting Onegu WITH Fidei D2?
I also really hate outlier votes and have caught scum that way, because scum wouldn't want to all be on the wagon if its a mislynch, like Scotts wagon. So I'm immediately suspicious of Kmatt and Shapelog. But I found a few townie brownies in your filter and Shape is apparently being replaced or modkilled so I won't get too much into that until next day phase, assuming I live.
I'll probably go read Fidei and mderg and giygas tonight.
2) I won't go too much into this, since I don't know the setup. If we have a doctor, he could've been a medic dodge. If we don't, it could've been for his strong presence in thread and being TR by many. It couldve been for his reads. It could've been the possibility of him revisiting his wrong reads. There are too many possibilities and since I don't know the setup, and neither does scum according to the OP, its really hard to figure out the motive behind that shot.
3) honestly, I skimmed it and it was a bit hard to follow. A bit too much narrative for my taste, instead of concrete reasoning for why GBs actions and posts made him scum. And I really thought I was onto something with the lack of friction RE: the GB lynch so I let that take over my actions. I can go revisit it if you'd like but I don't remember seeing anything that was distinctly "damn he's right GB is scummy" instead of "well I've seen bad town GB do bad stuff before".
I will admit, though, that might just be bias from playing with a bad town GB before XD also, what exactly were you thinking about the voting patterns?
Give me a single reason of why I'm playing this game badly.
On January 04 2016 08:19 Kmatt wrote: Okay so all things considered that last 10 minutes were pure bull.
On January 04 2016 07:48 The Shining wrote:
On January 04 2016 07:15 Kmatt wrote: Well. That was an interesting turn of events.
While I haven't given up my claim against GB (possibly even stronger now), Shining definitely got me thinking about the voting patterns. I had my suspicions about Shapelog but was hoping for the GB reveal to give me the info I needed.
I'm leaving for a while, and will probably spend most of the night phase working this out. And that's to say nothing of a potential NK.
I didn't directly answer your question before but I didn't forget about you.
On January 03 2016 11:18 Kmatt wrote: Don't know if anyone else just noticed but TheCow has been replaced by The Shining. I had my theories on Cow, but since his "character" has been replaced more or less I'd like our "new" friend to weigh in on some current events. Obviously he should read the thread when appropriate, but for when he's finished:
1) Seeing the previous days' discussion in the context current death toll, who or what do you think the biggest factor in Scott's mislynch was? 2) Similarly, why do you think the mafia went for Irish on the first night? (technically if we have both a doctor and vigilante in this game then that might not have been the case but for the sake of argument I'll assume Irish's death was the mafia's doing) Did any of his reads stand out to you or did any arguments he put out seem to be catching on with the thread? 3) Could you weigh in on my GB case? Obviously my opinion on the matter is plain to see, so I'd like to see some other people bounce ideas off of it. Do you think I over-reacted or overlooked anything in my wall of text?
Granted, anyone is invited to answer these, but since I didn't get to see much from Cow before he left, I'd like a bit more insight from his replacement.
Irish flipped town and I have a pretty solid TR on NM, who are the first 2 votes on Scott. Irish also pushed this lynch pretty hard. I believe the lynch was a case of town adamantly pushing the town ML and scum having to do zero work on it. I wouldn't be surprised if there was only one scum on the Scott wagon and the rest were off-wagon. Like kush/noon. If i choose to believe GB is town, that leaves me with mderg/Fidei/Giygas as one of the scum on the Scott wagon.
Kush can you explain to me how you went from voting Fidei WITH Onegu D1 to voting Onegu WITH Fidei D2?
I also really hate outlier votes and have caught scum that way, because scum wouldn't want to all be on the wagon if its a mislynch, like Scotts wagon. So I'm immediately suspicious of Kmatt and Shapelog. But I found a few townie brownies in your filter and Shape is apparently being replaced or modkilled so I won't get too much into that until next day phase, assuming I live.
I'll probably go read Fidei and mderg and giygas tonight.
2) I won't go too much into this, since I don't know the setup. If we have a doctor, he could've been a medic dodge. If we don't, it could've been for his strong presence in thread and being TR by many. It couldve been for his reads. It could've been the possibility of him revisiting his wrong reads. There are too many possibilities and since I don't know the setup, and neither does scum according to the OP, its really hard to figure out the motive behind that shot.
3) honestly, I skimmed it and it was a bit hard to follow. A bit too much narrative for my taste, instead of concrete reasoning for why GBs actions and posts made him scum. And I really thought I was onto something with the lack of friction RE: the GB lynch so I let that take over my actions. I can go revisit it if you'd like but I don't remember seeing anything that was distinctly "damn he's right GB is scummy" instead of "well I've seen bad town GB do bad stuff before".
I will admit, though, that might just be bias from playing with a bad town GB before XD also, what exactly were you thinking about the voting patterns?
I'll admit I might have been having a bit of fun with my write-up. Still, there's one point I'd like to have explained by anyone at this point. I could tag most any of his quoted posts as being anti-town, but my biggest issue (which I'm honestly surprised that it seems to be overlooked) is right here:
On December 31 2015 04:10 GlowingBear wrote: I've wrote it before. I've played with scott before and he is capable of doing that as town. I'm not lynching him over people I'm fairly confident are scum, simple as that.
(For context, he was voting on me day1)
On December 31 2015 06:48 GlowingBear wrote:
On December 31 2015 06:47 scott31337 wrote: Im voting with Onegu instead
Then I'm voting you Scott, sorry, but I have a stronger townread on him than you
Now what in the hell was this.
GB Believes me to be scum GB Asserts that Scott is town GB Declares that he would not lynch Scott over a stronger scumread (me) GB Drops his vote on a scumread(me) to intentionally vote Scott who he believed to be town, not because he believed Scott was scum, but because Scott was going to vote Onegu, who GB claimed he had a stronger townread on. Nevermind that Onegu had 0 votes to Scott's leading 4 at the time of the post. At least the other people on Scott's wagon claimed he was scum. GB doesn't even pretend to believe that.
And we all know how that ended. That entire logic train leading to the vote switch was entirely anti-town.
Well Shining has learned that he shouldn't lead lynch shenannies. This, plus the D1 lynch on a blue Kush lol. I'm saying this because I agree with this and feel I could've very well fucked up. I actually just mentioned this in one of my last posts. GBs vote looks rrally bad. But Scott was already in the lead for lynch so why would GB make himself look this bad by adding onto it and contradicting his own read?
I do need clarification on one thing, though. I thought he was saying his townread on FID was stronger than his TR on Scott. Not his TR on Onegu > Scott. GB confirm/deny? Regardless it's not good logic for voting someone you said you wouldn't vote...
I'm not saying it makes him town, but GB voting scott because he had more of a TR on fidei than scott seems like it makes sense to me.
On January 04 2016 08:19 Kmatt wrote: Okay so all things considered that last 10 minutes were pure bull.
On January 04 2016 07:48 The Shining wrote:
On January 04 2016 07:15 Kmatt wrote: Well. That was an interesting turn of events.
While I haven't given up my claim against GB (possibly even stronger now), Shining definitely got me thinking about the voting patterns. I had my suspicions about Shapelog but was hoping for the GB reveal to give me the info I needed.
I'm leaving for a while, and will probably spend most of the night phase working this out. And that's to say nothing of a potential NK.
I didn't directly answer your question before but I didn't forget about you.
On January 03 2016 11:18 Kmatt wrote: Don't know if anyone else just noticed but TheCow has been replaced by The Shining. I had my theories on Cow, but since his "character" has been replaced more or less I'd like our "new" friend to weigh in on some current events. Obviously he should read the thread when appropriate, but for when he's finished:
1) Seeing the previous days' discussion in the context current death toll, who or what do you think the biggest factor in Scott's mislynch was? 2) Similarly, why do you think the mafia went for Irish on the first night? (technically if we have both a doctor and vigilante in this game then that might not have been the case but for the sake of argument I'll assume Irish's death was the mafia's doing) Did any of his reads stand out to you or did any arguments he put out seem to be catching on with the thread? 3) Could you weigh in on my GB case? Obviously my opinion on the matter is plain to see, so I'd like to see some other people bounce ideas off of it. Do you think I over-reacted or overlooked anything in my wall of text?
Granted, anyone is invited to answer these, but since I didn't get to see much from Cow before he left, I'd like a bit more insight from his replacement.
Irish flipped town and I have a pretty solid TR on NM, who are the first 2 votes on Scott. Irish also pushed this lynch pretty hard. I believe the lynch was a case of town adamantly pushing the town ML and scum having to do zero work on it. I wouldn't be surprised if there was only one scum on the Scott wagon and the rest were off-wagon. Like kush/noon. If i choose to believe GB is town, that leaves me with mderg/Fidei/Giygas as one of the scum on the Scott wagon.
Kush can you explain to me how you went from voting Fidei WITH Onegu D1 to voting Onegu WITH Fidei D2?
I also really hate outlier votes and have caught scum that way, because scum wouldn't want to all be on the wagon if its a mislynch, like Scotts wagon. So I'm immediately suspicious of Kmatt and Shapelog. But I found a few townie brownies in your filter and Shape is apparently being replaced or modkilled so I won't get too much into that until next day phase, assuming I live.
I'll probably go read Fidei and mderg and giygas tonight.
2) I won't go too much into this, since I don't know the setup. If we have a doctor, he could've been a medic dodge. If we don't, it could've been for his strong presence in thread and being TR by many. It couldve been for his reads. It could've been the possibility of him revisiting his wrong reads. There are too many possibilities and since I don't know the setup, and neither does scum according to the OP, its really hard to figure out the motive behind that shot.
3) honestly, I skimmed it and it was a bit hard to follow. A bit too much narrative for my taste, instead of concrete reasoning for why GBs actions and posts made him scum. And I really thought I was onto something with the lack of friction RE: the GB lynch so I let that take over my actions. I can go revisit it if you'd like but I don't remember seeing anything that was distinctly "damn he's right GB is scummy" instead of "well I've seen bad town GB do bad stuff before".
I will admit, though, that might just be bias from playing with a bad town GB before XD also, what exactly were you thinking about the voting patterns?
I'll admit I might have been having a bit of fun with my write-up. Still, there's one point I'd like to have explained by anyone at this point. I could tag most any of his quoted posts as being anti-town, but my biggest issue (which I'm honestly surprised that it seems to be overlooked) is right here:
On December 31 2015 04:10 GlowingBear wrote: I've wrote it before. I've played with scott before and he is capable of doing that as town. I'm not lynching him over people I'm fairly confident are scum, simple as that.
(For context, he was voting on me day1)
On December 31 2015 06:48 GlowingBear wrote:
On December 31 2015 06:47 scott31337 wrote: Im voting with Onegu instead
Then I'm voting you Scott, sorry, but I have a stronger townread on him than you
Now what in the hell was this.
GB Believes me to be scum GB Asserts that Scott is town GB Declares that he would not lynch Scott over a stronger scumread (me) GB Drops his vote on a scumread(me) to intentionally vote Scott who he believed to be town, not because he believed Scott was scum, but because Scott was going to vote Onegu, who GB claimed he had a stronger townread on. Nevermind that Onegu had 0 votes to Scott's leading 4 at the time of the post. At least the other people on Scott's wagon claimed he was scum. GB doesn't even pretend to believe that.
And we all know how that ended. That entire logic train leading to the vote switch was entirely anti-town.
Well Shining has learned that he shouldn't lead lynch shenannies. This, plus the D1 lynch on a blue Kush lol. I'm saying this because I agree with this and feel I could've very well fucked up. I actually just mentioned this in one of my last posts. GBs vote looks rrally bad. But Scott was already in the lead for lynch so why would GB make himself look this bad by adding onto it and contradicting his own read?
I do need clarification on one thing, though. I thought he was saying his townread on FID was stronger than his TR on Scott. Not his TR on Onegu > Scott. GB confirm/deny? Regardless it's not good logic for voting someone you said you wouldn't vote...
I'm not saying it makes him town, but GB voting scott because he had more of a TR on fidei than scott seems like it makes sense to me.
On January 04 2016 07:15 Kmatt wrote: Well. That was an interesting turn of events.
While I haven't given up my claim against GB (possibly even stronger now), Shining definitely got me thinking about the voting patterns. I had my suspicions about Shapelog but was hoping for the GB reveal to give me the info I needed.
I'm leaving for a while, and will probably spend most of the night phase working this out. And that's to say nothing of a potential NK.
I didn't directly answer your question before but I didn't forget about you.
On January 03 2016 11:18 Kmatt wrote: Don't know if anyone else just noticed but TheCow has been replaced by The Shining. I had my theories on Cow, but since his "character" has been replaced more or less I'd like our "new" friend to weigh in on some current events. Obviously he should read the thread when appropriate, but for when he's finished:
1) Seeing the previous days' discussion in the context current death toll, who or what do you think the biggest factor in Scott's mislynch was? 2) Similarly, why do you think the mafia went for Irish on the first night? (technically if we have both a doctor and vigilante in this game then that might not have been the case but for the sake of argument I'll assume Irish's death was the mafia's doing) Did any of his reads stand out to you or did any arguments he put out seem to be catching on with the thread? 3) Could you weigh in on my GB case? Obviously my opinion on the matter is plain to see, so I'd like to see some other people bounce ideas off of it. Do you think I over-reacted or overlooked anything in my wall of text?
Granted, anyone is invited to answer these, but since I didn't get to see much from Cow before he left, I'd like a bit more insight from his replacement.
Irish flipped town and I have a pretty solid TR on NM, who are the first 2 votes on Scott. Irish also pushed this lynch pretty hard. I believe the lynch was a case of town adamantly pushing the town ML and scum having to do zero work on it. I wouldn't be surprised if there was only one scum on the Scott wagon and the rest were off-wagon. Like kush/noon. If i choose to believe GB is town, that leaves me with mderg/Fidei/Giygas as one of the scum on the Scott wagon.
Kush can you explain to me how you went from voting Fidei WITH Onegu D1 to voting Onegu WITH Fidei D2?
I also really hate outlier votes and have caught scum that way, because scum wouldn't want to all be on the wagon if its a mislynch, like Scotts wagon. So I'm immediately suspicious of Kmatt and Shapelog. But I found a few townie brownies in your filter and Shape is apparently being replaced or modkilled so I won't get too much into that until next day phase, assuming I live.
I'll probably go read Fidei and mderg and giygas tonight.
2) I won't go too much into this, since I don't know the setup. If we have a doctor, he could've been a medic dodge. If we don't, it could've been for his strong presence in thread and being TR by many. It couldve been for his reads. It could've been the possibility of him revisiting his wrong reads. There are too many possibilities and since I don't know the setup, and neither does scum according to the OP, its really hard to figure out the motive behind that shot.
3) honestly, I skimmed it and it was a bit hard to follow. A bit too much narrative for my taste, instead of concrete reasoning for why GBs actions and posts made him scum. And I really thought I was onto something with the lack of friction RE: the GB lynch so I let that take over my actions. I can go revisit it if you'd like but I don't remember seeing anything that was distinctly "damn he's right GB is scummy" instead of "well I've seen bad town GB do bad stuff before".
I will admit, though, that might just be bias from playing with a bad town GB before XD also, what exactly were you thinking about the voting patterns?
Give me a single reason of why I'm playing this game badly.
Because, like me, you were wrong on Onegu being scum but, unlike me, you are unwilling to admit you could be wrong anywhere else and want to continue lynching down your lynch list with no new thoughts or discussion.
And also because you voted with your scumread. A scumread that you say was a stronger scumread than the one you had on Onegu, who we just mislynched.
Onegu lynch was a fair lynch. Me being wrong on Onegu doesn't mean I'm wrong about the other reads.
If you can point out what is wrong in my reads, you can say this. If you can't, it's because my arguments holds water and it means I'm not playing bad at all.
We can disagree on the "host confirmed" stuff. But I don't think I might be wrong in my other reads.
On January 04 2016 08:19 Kmatt wrote: Okay so all things considered that last 10 minutes were pure bull.
On January 04 2016 07:48 The Shining wrote:
On January 04 2016 07:15 Kmatt wrote: Well. That was an interesting turn of events.
While I haven't given up my claim against GB (possibly even stronger now), Shining definitely got me thinking about the voting patterns. I had my suspicions about Shapelog but was hoping for the GB reveal to give me the info I needed.
I'm leaving for a while, and will probably spend most of the night phase working this out. And that's to say nothing of a potential NK.
I didn't directly answer your question before but I didn't forget about you.
On January 03 2016 11:18 Kmatt wrote: Don't know if anyone else just noticed but TheCow has been replaced by The Shining. I had my theories on Cow, but since his "character" has been replaced more or less I'd like our "new" friend to weigh in on some current events. Obviously he should read the thread when appropriate, but for when he's finished:
1) Seeing the previous days' discussion in the context current death toll, who or what do you think the biggest factor in Scott's mislynch was? 2) Similarly, why do you think the mafia went for Irish on the first night? (technically if we have both a doctor and vigilante in this game then that might not have been the case but for the sake of argument I'll assume Irish's death was the mafia's doing) Did any of his reads stand out to you or did any arguments he put out seem to be catching on with the thread? 3) Could you weigh in on my GB case? Obviously my opinion on the matter is plain to see, so I'd like to see some other people bounce ideas off of it. Do you think I over-reacted or overlooked anything in my wall of text?
Granted, anyone is invited to answer these, but since I didn't get to see much from Cow before he left, I'd like a bit more insight from his replacement.
Irish flipped town and I have a pretty solid TR on NM, who are the first 2 votes on Scott. Irish also pushed this lynch pretty hard. I believe the lynch was a case of town adamantly pushing the town ML and scum having to do zero work on it. I wouldn't be surprised if there was only one scum on the Scott wagon and the rest were off-wagon. Like kush/noon. If i choose to believe GB is town, that leaves me with mderg/Fidei/Giygas as one of the scum on the Scott wagon.
Kush can you explain to me how you went from voting Fidei WITH Onegu D1 to voting Onegu WITH Fidei D2?
I also really hate outlier votes and have caught scum that way, because scum wouldn't want to all be on the wagon if its a mislynch, like Scotts wagon. So I'm immediately suspicious of Kmatt and Shapelog. But I found a few townie brownies in your filter and Shape is apparently being replaced or modkilled so I won't get too much into that until next day phase, assuming I live.
I'll probably go read Fidei and mderg and giygas tonight.
2) I won't go too much into this, since I don't know the setup. If we have a doctor, he could've been a medic dodge. If we don't, it could've been for his strong presence in thread and being TR by many. It couldve been for his reads. It could've been the possibility of him revisiting his wrong reads. There are too many possibilities and since I don't know the setup, and neither does scum according to the OP, its really hard to figure out the motive behind that shot.
3) honestly, I skimmed it and it was a bit hard to follow. A bit too much narrative for my taste, instead of concrete reasoning for why GBs actions and posts made him scum. And I really thought I was onto something with the lack of friction RE: the GB lynch so I let that take over my actions. I can go revisit it if you'd like but I don't remember seeing anything that was distinctly "damn he's right GB is scummy" instead of "well I've seen bad town GB do bad stuff before".
I will admit, though, that might just be bias from playing with a bad town GB before XD also, what exactly were you thinking about the voting patterns?
I'll admit I might have been having a bit of fun with my write-up. Still, there's one point I'd like to have explained by anyone at this point. I could tag most any of his quoted posts as being anti-town, but my biggest issue (which I'm honestly surprised that it seems to be overlooked) is right here:
On December 31 2015 04:10 GlowingBear wrote: I've wrote it before. I've played with scott before and he is capable of doing that as town. I'm not lynching him over people I'm fairly confident are scum, simple as that.
(For context, he was voting on me day1)
On December 31 2015 06:48 GlowingBear wrote:
On December 31 2015 06:47 scott31337 wrote: Im voting with Onegu instead
Then I'm voting you Scott, sorry, but I have a stronger townread on him than you
Now what in the hell was this.
GB Believes me to be scum GB Asserts that Scott is town GB Declares that he would not lynch Scott over a stronger scumread (me) GB Drops his vote on a scumread(me) to intentionally vote Scott who he believed to be town, not because he believed Scott was scum, but because Scott was going to vote Onegu, who GB claimed he had a stronger townread on. Nevermind that Onegu had 0 votes to Scott's leading 4 at the time of the post. At least the other people on Scott's wagon claimed he was scum. GB doesn't even pretend to believe that.
And we all know how that ended. That entire logic train leading to the vote switch was entirely anti-town.
Well Shining has learned that he shouldn't lead lynch shenannies. This, plus the D1 lynch on a blue Kush lol. I'm saying this because I agree with this and feel I could've very well fucked up. I actually just mentioned this in one of my last posts. GBs vote looks rrally bad. But Scott was already in the lead for lynch so why would GB make himself look this bad by adding onto it and contradicting his own read?
I do need clarification on one thing, though. I thought he was saying his townread on FID was stronger than his TR on Scott. Not his TR on Onegu > Scott. GB confirm/deny? Regardless it's not good logic for voting someone you said you wouldn't vote...
I'm not saying it makes him town, but GB voting scott because he had more of a TR on fidei than scott seems like it makes sense to me.
THANK
GOD
SOMEONE CAN UNDERSTAND THIS
Faith in mankind restored
Does me being 'confirmed town' make you upset?
Why would it?
Just a cheeky rhetorical question
You might want to cool it on the mod action speculation though
On January 04 2016 09:33 Fecalfeast wrote: Nope, you're totally correct about my alignment but I personally don't think using mod actions to determine alignments is good.
It shouldn't matter if I got it correctly from you. Is it worrisome? Am I Mafia protecting my Mafia buddy The Shininf?
On January 04 2016 07:15 Kmatt wrote: Well. That was an interesting turn of events.
While I haven't given up my claim against GB (possibly even stronger now), Shining definitely got me thinking about the voting patterns. I had my suspicions about Shapelog but was hoping for the GB reveal to give me the info I needed.
I'm leaving for a while, and will probably spend most of the night phase working this out. And that's to say nothing of a potential NK.
I didn't directly answer your question before but I didn't forget about you.
On January 03 2016 11:18 Kmatt wrote: Don't know if anyone else just noticed but TheCow has been replaced by The Shining. I had my theories on Cow, but since his "character" has been replaced more or less I'd like our "new" friend to weigh in on some current events. Obviously he should read the thread when appropriate, but for when he's finished:
1) Seeing the previous days' discussion in the context current death toll, who or what do you think the biggest factor in Scott's mislynch was? 2) Similarly, why do you think the mafia went for Irish on the first night? (technically if we have both a doctor and vigilante in this game then that might not have been the case but for the sake of argument I'll assume Irish's death was the mafia's doing) Did any of his reads stand out to you or did any arguments he put out seem to be catching on with the thread? 3) Could you weigh in on my GB case? Obviously my opinion on the matter is plain to see, so I'd like to see some other people bounce ideas off of it. Do you think I over-reacted or overlooked anything in my wall of text?
Granted, anyone is invited to answer these, but since I didn't get to see much from Cow before he left, I'd like a bit more insight from his replacement.
Irish flipped town and I have a pretty solid TR on NM, who are the first 2 votes on Scott. Irish also pushed this lynch pretty hard. I believe the lynch was a case of town adamantly pushing the town ML and scum having to do zero work on it. I wouldn't be surprised if there was only one scum on the Scott wagon and the rest were off-wagon. Like kush/noon. If i choose to believe GB is town, that leaves me with mderg/Fidei/Giygas as one of the scum on the Scott wagon.
Kush can you explain to me how you went from voting Fidei WITH Onegu D1 to voting Onegu WITH Fidei D2?
I also really hate outlier votes and have caught scum that way, because scum wouldn't want to all be on the wagon if its a mislynch, like Scotts wagon. So I'm immediately suspicious of Kmatt and Shapelog. But I found a few townie brownies in your filter and Shape is apparently being replaced or modkilled so I won't get too much into that until next day phase, assuming I live.
I'll probably go read Fidei and mderg and giygas tonight.
2) I won't go too much into this, since I don't know the setup. If we have a doctor, he could've been a medic dodge. If we don't, it could've been for his strong presence in thread and being TR by many. It couldve been for his reads. It could've been the possibility of him revisiting his wrong reads. There are too many possibilities and since I don't know the setup, and neither does scum according to the OP, its really hard to figure out the motive behind that shot.
3) honestly, I skimmed it and it was a bit hard to follow. A bit too much narrative for my taste, instead of concrete reasoning for why GBs actions and posts made him scum. And I really thought I was onto something with the lack of friction RE: the GB lynch so I let that take over my actions. I can go revisit it if you'd like but I don't remember seeing anything that was distinctly "damn he's right GB is scummy" instead of "well I've seen bad town GB do bad stuff before".
I will admit, though, that might just be bias from playing with a bad town GB before XD also, what exactly were you thinking about the voting patterns?
Give me a single reason of why I'm playing this game badly.
Because, like me, you were wrong on Onegu being scum but, unlike me, you are unwilling to admit you could be wrong anywhere else and want to continue lynching down your lynch list with no new thoughts or discussion.
And also because you voted with your scumread. A scumread that you say was a stronger scumread than the one you had on Onegu, who we just mislynched.
Onegu lynch was a fair lynch. Me being wrong on Onegu doesn't mean I'm wrong about the other reads.
If you can point out what is wrong in my reads, you can say this. If you can't, it's because my arguments holds water and it means I'm not playing bad at all.
We can disagree on the "host confirmed" stuff. But I don't think I might be wrong in my other reads.
I have no idea why people are scum reading fidei
So you're being stubborn about your reads, which means you did and do still think mderg is scum but you still haven't explained why you voted with your scumread onto one of your townreads. It sort of makes sense to pick a stronger townread over a weaker one. But not so much when you vote with your scumread on the weaker townread. Your scumread voting your weak townread should make your townread stronger or scumread weaker. Neither happened.
Although I consider my scumreads when I cast a vote, it doesn't mean I take it as an absolute rule. I'm pretty sure I've voted with scum reads before. And it's kinda sad that you keep pushing this reasoning when the second wagon also had one of my scum reads voting him. Which means I would have voted with a scum read of mine anyways.
I base my reads on people solely, and not associative. I may use associative reads but only as complementary arguments. Whoever says I do otherwise is spreading a hoax that isn't true.
Now here is why I voted scott: several townreads were voting him, and I kinda agreed with their reasoning. But I remibded that he was much more of a null than scum because his scummy actions were actually inside the range of his townplay. I tried to lynch Onegu. The wagon didn't get traction. Then scott voted fidei and I had fidei as way more townie than scott. I had to vote scott because I wasn't letting fidei dying over him. It is simply as that: I had a stronger townread on fidei and several towbread's were voting scott and my lynch target (Onegu) was voting fidei. I had plenty of reasons to switch to scott
On January 04 2016 09:33 Fecalfeast wrote: Nope, you're totally correct about my alignment but I personally don't think using mod actions to determine alignments is good.
It shouldn't matter if I got it correctly from you. Is it worrisome? Am I Mafia protecting my Mafia buddy The Shininf?
No I already explained that your Mafia motivation for doing so was to pocket me and get me to vote Onegu over you.
Why are you answering his instead of letting FFanswer it?
On January 04 2016 07:07 The Shining wrote: Well I fucked that. I can't even be mad at anyone but myself. Giygas, I'm pretty sure I know why but I just want to hear it from you. Why did you switch?
GB you were just saved. Start shitting townie rainbows pls? Super close lynch like this and I'm feeling like I chose wrong...bah
I promise you I'm town this game and I didn't try to deceive you
You answered the Fidei TR, thanks, but why did you have me as never lynch?
No mafia asks for a replacement for being unable to play. They can use it to survive through days. People that ask for a replacement is usually town concerned of ruining other people's game.
So you think Shape is town, too? Don't you think it's also likely scum being unable to play would also ask for a replacement to not risk being modkilled and screwing over their scumteam? That feels NAI, at best, to me. I'm not sure it warrants a read either way. And I've def seen scum replace out before. Hm.
I have never ever seen scum replacing out.
And when he host confirms in thread his girlfriend's message will be sent, it means it's not a plan from Mafia, it means the message was genuine. If it was his plan as Mafia the host wouldn't post interfere
So how the hell does this confirm he's town? It confirms it wasn't a mafia plan, not that he isn't mafia. You've never seen mafia replace out... Ok but from his girlfriend posting, it's clear that he cannot get to his computer right now. If he didn't vote he would be modkilled, and thus let down his hypothetical mafiateam.
Fair enough, maybe I shouldn't be reading him as confirmed town for that, then.
On January 05 2016 00:46 NocturneMage wrote: On (2), I want to see where Fidei is now that Onegu has flipped town.
On (1) I know Noon and I disagreed on how organic/obvious/predatory/whatever word you want to use the argument made against you. I'm going to chalk this up to the gap in experience - where such an argument might be because he's much more experienced than I am. To me making that argument wouldn't be obvious without double checking filters.
mderg is an experienced player so if Noon's arguing that his argument against mderg is a low-ball argument for someone of his calibre (???) to make against you, then that's a different story.
On January 05 2016 07:52 Kmatt wrote: You know I had my suspicions that Cow/Shining was blue but damn detective? We really needed that for the last days.
I was pretty skeptical about his sudden post and GiygaS' vote switch when GB was on the table but if Shining really was a blue, then the only scenario where GiygaS fits in as scum would be if they had planned to vote switch two off of GB (or one from another wagon to put it at 4-5) at the last minute and Shining did half the work for them. I'm willing to put away that crackpot theory for the time being, which leaves us with...
Shapelog/FecalFeast: Shape was dubious at best before, but a lot of my grievances with him was his sudden disappearance. Now that we know about the surgery and FF's activity so far I'll peg him as town.
GiygaS: While that voteswitch was sketchy, Shining did have a point, and he clearly wasn't trying to trick anyone. Outside of my crackpot theory I've not a lot of reason reason to suspect him. Slight town.
NocturneMage: My safest townread second only to Cow/Shining. I'll give his filter the once-over since there's been a lot out of him to be sure, but so far I have no complaints against him. Town.
Fidei: I don't like how inactive he's been, but that's been the case for three townies so far (Scott, Onegu, and TheCow were all afk early on and they've all flipped town). However, if he doesn't come in with some solid scumreads today I'm gonna have a problem here. Slight scum.
GlowingBear: I don't really buy or even get that explanation for the Scott vote and there's been a lot of anti-town posting coming from him. Especially considering how few players are left, I can't really see a scenario where he's not scum. Unless someone can show me solid evidence that there's a better shot in someone else I'm keeping my vote right here. Scum.
I have to run out so I can't finish my bit on mderg and kush.
On January 05 2016 22:17 NocturneMage wrote: GB is bluehunting, I know for a fact from my newbie game as cop he was very active doing it in the mafia qt, and I even caught on to trigger phrases that the scumteam used (admittedly with the help of my coach at that time).
When did the idea that I was blue hunting first crossed your mind?
On January 06 2016 02:30 nooniansoong wrote: Gb less questions more conclusions from you.
I need answers so I can draw conclusions.
You have 54 pages to draw conclusions from. Your questions aren't specific. They are broad, asking for list posts. It makes it seem like youre asking them for the sake of asking them.
My opinion hasn't change on people, for now my townreads were all right and there is nothing new in thread. What's new in thread needs further investigation and that's what I'm doing
On January 03 2016 00:38 GlowingBear wrote: There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first.
1 At the end of the day he said he needed to reasses his scumteam. So why would scum kill him for reads he didn't even have anymore? 2 Did you consider that scum killed him because he looked town?
1) because he was universally town read. His approach to the game was also very experienced. He is a better player than most of veterans in these forums already.
2) Of course? Why else would scum kill him? Do you think scum was blue hunting since the beginning?
On January 06 2016 09:45 NocturneMage wrote: GB, I read that post a few times and tried to break down what you are trying to do with the question. That's the issue. The direction of your question made no sense to me - the question centred around something that was already known to begin with when the statement was made and when you asked it.
I don't recall him ever scumreading or townreading that slot to begin with (and even if he did, then????) and I am not sure what you could do with the information other than to say wait he didn't have a read but why would it matter now since he's flipped. Additionally, when I read the question I get extremely wary of anything that discusses blue roles/situations/reads outside situations where there are claims/counterclaims/fakeclaims near end of cycle, and even then sometimes you have to be careful. There was a potential risk that you get a reaction where a townie - especially a newbie townie - is going to spew something that further helps narrow the field down or outright gives himself away.
In general, it reminded me of what happened right after the lynch I discussed in newbie 14. I always review scum qts especially when scum endgame and what stuck out to me was your rolehunting. So taking it into account who it was coming from, I got concerned.
NM:
1) I never role hunt in thread. All the information you have about my role hunting is based on what you've seen in a QT. IN A QT. I don't even know how to ask things in order to know people's roles. I just can distinguish kinda well when someone plays while being or not a power role.
2) That blue role is dead so I have no idea how I could be blue hunting for that guy.
3) How can I manage to discover roles by asking that question?
4) My intention to ask that question is to see how his answer stands to his posts in the thread. I couldn't see a single hint that the cow was blue. How that guy could? If he saw something very obscure it is because HE is blue hunting.
What bothers me is that you guys are scumreading me for reasons that doesn't make me scum.
Giving early town reads? Tell me Mafia motivation to do that. So you think I would narrow my lynch targets right out of the bat for the sake of being town read by it, but UH OH it doesn't give ME a town read :/.
Being inactive? I have been posting whenever I can and being really transparent with things I say.
What else? Being nice to newbies in the beginning of the game? Ok, so not only I can't get laid being nice, I can't also do it playing Mafia? Rofl
On January 06 2016 09:41 Fecalfeast wrote: The main reason i had him as scum was he stayed on onegu while his scumread gigyas voted onegu too. The timing means gb had little time to move if any at all so my reason for scumming hin is invalid
My scum read Onegu also voted the other wagon. So I would've voted with my scum reads castng my vote in any wagon.
I've already explained that although the chart says I never vote with my scum reads as town, this isn't true. I'm well aware of the possibility of being wrong on these guys or even the possibility of a bus. I take who are voting with me as a complementary information. If I'm certain someone is Mafia, who votes with me doesn't really matter that much
On January 03 2016 00:38 GlowingBear wrote: There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first.
1 At the end of the day he said he needed to reasses his scumteam. So why would scum kill him for reads he didn't even have anymore? 2 Did you consider that scum killed him because he looked town?
1) because he was universally town read. His approach to the game was also very experienced. He is a better player than most of veterans in these forums already.
2) Of course? Why else would scum kill him? Do you think scum was blue hunting since the beginning?
ok so why do you think it's a good idea to base your scumread of gigyas on his if you admit that's not why he was killed.
I don't admit that. I admit that Irish was killed because he was looking townie. Which doesn't mean Mafia didn't think he was also a danger to the team while scum reading Giygas.
But the reason I scum read Giygas is that it is already day3 and I know nothing about his reads. He is not engaged, he is not investigating. He is here, comes by and do nothing. There is something in particular: he decided to vote me last day. After asking me questions that I answered and made him say "oh yes you're right you already said that". What I mean is that, from our interaction, you can see that he had a suspicion on something about me and when proved wrong, he backtracked. Therefore, it basically means he dropped his suspicions on me. Why voting me, then? It came out of the blue.
Then Gyigas voted Onegu. Again, what under Giygas POV makes him switch to Onegu's wagon? Basically, me and Onegu are never partners for the way we've pushed each other. So if Giygas actually was scum reading me, how come he switches to Onegu?
On January 06 2016 17:16 GiygaS wrote: Like I'm right that fdei's post could easily be from a town if GB is town right? Chainsaw is only a scumtell if the person they are defending is scum. But then who's scum? I have solid town reads on noon, kmatt and nm. Which means I'm wrong about one of those people or the scum team is 3 of GB, fdei, ff and mderg. Makes a lot more sense for the first 3 to be a scum team than the last one to be on a team with GB and fdei after fdei's post.
Fideis case is still a chainsaw defense even if gb isn't scum. Also it's full of misrepresentations.
Gb your reason for voting gigyas was bad and scummy. There's other Scummy stuff in forgetting. What Seals the deal is the general lack of towniness.
Forgetting stuff I do as town, Mafia and.... Somethig that I just forgot.
And activity drop happens all the time especially now that I got back to work.
Check haunted mansion mini Mafia if you need proof
On January 06 2016 10:08 NocturneMage wrote: Alright, that second point is bad. Wow.
I just don't understand this pov. GB said that he thought there was something to be gained by looking at Irish's scum reads. GB then accurately recited Irish's scum reads. Mderg then basically said that GB had done so in a misleading way. But mderg didn't follow up that point by saying "oh yeah you actually can tell something from the other reads Irish had". It isn't like he was trying to make a nuanced argument based on that point, he just shit on GB fullstop. And even if he had, it doesn't matter anyway because GB wasn't purporting to talk about all of Irish's reads in the first place. To me, that is mderg trying to scum GB for bad reasons, at best. And that is following on from his GB read which honestly has made no sense to me the entire game.
It wasn't the recitation of the scum reads that was a problem, it was how it was being used. I had the same problem. You're confusing use with intention. It wasn't confirming the scumreads, it was what he did with the Irish scumreads.
Those are two separate points.
And GB not purporting to talk.....he didn't need to.
On January 06 2016 22:13 NocturneMage wrote: GB in that argument said he was "confident" (paraphrasing) mderg was scum and made a previous argument on Onegu (now flipped town) that he is stating something that he cannot possibly believe in. This is a mafia indicative assertion.
The argument against GigyaS at that time was NK WIFOM.
In stating his scumreads GB votes GigyaS from the off when he had two reads with - in his view - stronger basis.
Why is what mderg did unfathomable/unbelievable/impossible/whatever word you want from a town perspective?
Why the Bolded is a Mafia indicative assertion? Explain to me how that assertion can't come from a town and why that assertion is a consequence of a scum mindset.
On December 31 2015 04:11 Onegu wrote: Also meta doesnt work on me GB you have played with me long enough to know this. I purposely change how I play both alignments periodically so I cant be meta read. And the fact that you are trying to meta read me is complete garbage.
On January 03 2016 00:50 Onegu wrote: GB not deciding to defend himself just saying it is a town case from kmatt is really telling.
And yes I will be tunneled on to fword dude and GB until they are dead, I am dead or it is lylo then I will reevaluate in lylo. Tunnel for now.
We know Onegu's flipped green, so at the very least these are honest. On the first one, I trust that players know their own meta and own methods of solving the game.
ROFL now you're just full of shit. So now that Onegu is town his "meta" on me is accurate? Give me a break m
On January 06 2016 21:20 nooniansoong wrote: Irish said he had to re-read and reasses therefore his scum reads were going to change
Reassessing scum reads doesn't mean he would drop them, necessarily. Why are you pushing this information so hard?
Um because it is your only current scumread with actual reasoning behind it. So I don't have a lot to push lol.
We can argue in vain about how sure he was about his reads. All we know is "reread and reasses" indicates he had some extent of doubt about his reads. That doubt was not acknowledged by you and it makes your reasoning for voting gigyas that much weaker.
People have answered your questions. You have done nothing with the answers. I'd like you to make some content other than defending yourself. You could give your thoughts about fidei's case since that seems to be the hot topic right now.
NO
IT DOESN'T MAKE IT WEAKER
BECAUSE REASSESSINGDOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN DROPPING
And as soon as people told me I was WIFOM I've reevaluated and dropped it.
Now I'm conscious about Giygas and I think he looks scummy for all the reasons I've brouhht AND IF YOU THINK I'M PUSHING GIYGAS BECAUSE OF THE NIGHTKILL YOU ARE NOT READING MY FUCKING POSTS
On January 06 2016 22:13 NocturneMage wrote: GB in that argument said he was "confident" (paraphrasing) mderg was scum and made a previous argument on Onegu (now flipped town) that he is stating something that he cannot possibly believe in. This is a mafia indicative assertion.
The argument against GigyaS at that time was NK WIFOM.
In stating his scumreads GB votes GigyaS from the off when he had two reads with - in his view - stronger basis.
Why is what mderg did unfathomable/unbelievable/impossible/whatever word you want from a town perspective?
Why the Bolded is a Mafia indicative assertion? Explain to me how that assertion can't come from a town and why that assertion is a consequence of a scum mindset.
You misunderstood.
I'm not saying that was mafia indicative for you. You are making an assertion on Onegu that he cannot believe what he is possibly saying. The argument you are making on Onegu is a mafia indicative assertion on Onegu.
On January 06 2016 22:18 NocturneMage wrote: Separate point - these comments were made at GB.
On December 31 2015 04:11 Onegu wrote: Also meta doesnt work on me GB you have played with me long enough to know this. I purposely change how I play both alignments periodically so I cant be meta read. And the fact that you are trying to meta read me is complete garbage.
On January 03 2016 00:50 Onegu wrote: GB not deciding to defend himself just saying it is a town case from kmatt is really telling.
And yes I will be tunneled on to fword dude and GB until they are dead, I am dead or it is lylo then I will reevaluate in lylo. Tunnel for now.
We know Onegu's flipped green, so at the very least these are honest. On the first one, I trust that players know their own meta and own methods of solving the game.
ROFL now you're just full of shit. So now that Onegu is town his "meta" on me is accurate? Give me a break m
No, this statement does not indicate he's metaing you. He's arguing that people should not meta him.
Those are two separate points.
The argument is not YOUR meta.
The statement is what YOU are doing about HIS meta.
What Onegu's flip does do here is show that his interpretion of his own reads on people is accurate.
The reason I brought that up was because I also want other people who know Onegu better to discuss this.
Last game I had a possible scum tell from Onegu. It was that he doesn't waste his vote when he is Mafia. And I saw it here. Check haunted mansion again if you don't believe me. I've clearly stated in one of my posts that I thought I had a tell on him. I think that was the game.
And my main reason to vote Onegu wasn't meta, it was that I thought he couldn't believe whst he was saying about the scum slip when Shapelog did the same thing and didn't get scum read by Onegu.
On January 06 2016 21:20 nooniansoong wrote: Irish said he had to re-read and reasses therefore his scum reads were going to change
Reassessing scum reads doesn't mean he would drop them, necessarily. Why are you pushing this information so hard?
Um because it is your only current scumread with actual reasoning behind it. So I don't have a lot to push lol.
We can argue in vain about how sure he was about his reads. All we know is "reread and reasses" indicates he had some extent of doubt about his reads. That doubt was not acknowledged by you and it makes your reasoning for voting gigyas that much weaker.
People have answered your questions. You have done nothing with the answers. I'd like you to make some content other than defending yourself. You could give your thoughts about fidei's case since that seems to be the hot topic right now.
People didn't answer all the questions, in still waiting for Giygas to answer my. I couldn't care for Kmatt's answer because I saw nothing malicious in it
On January 07 2016 00:28 Kmatt wrote: While I can't pin the vote switch yesterday as being inherently scummy, the fact that GiygaS skirted by for so long with so little contribution to the thread is troubling. I've only got about 20 minutes before I head out for the rest of this day phase (curse you Wednesday morning shifts) so if anyone has anything to run by me I need to hear it and now. If my math is right another mislynch today and we're six kinds of screwed. Not that I doubt my reads but I want to be as sure as possible since I can't respond to any shenanigans.
Argh this post isn't good.
Guys lynch me, I can't deal with this thing of not being able to decide if Kmatt is town or Mafia
On January 07 2016 00:48 Kmatt wrote: What's wrong with my post?
You're basically interpreting stuff to fit your scum read on me.
You see inactives flipping town, so you prefer to go against active scum. The consequence of it is that you're going against me.
The problem with this is:
1) You've already being voting me since the beginning of the game, which means this thing of killing actives isn't prior to your decision to go against me. So you're already going against me and now you're finding more excuses to vote me.
2) I've never seen a game with an entire team of active scum. That said, if you've already hit 2 inactive townies, your chances of hitting inactive scum gets bigger, and not the opposite. So saying that you now are going against active scum doesn't make sense
On January 07 2016 00:46 GlowingBear wrote: Well, lynch me today When I flip town lynch my scum reads
They are Giygas/mderg/?
Also remember what I said on NM before
I'm getting ready to work and I'll be AFK during the entire day.
I hope you guys do the right thing. If you don't, do NOT ignore my reads.
I don't understand
(1) why is mderg mafia? Your reason for scumming him boils down to his style. I read his town games (disclaimer - could not get to his scum games yet) and his style in this game is similar to his town games. so I don't like your argument and any of the arguments against him on passivity. Of further note, mderg has gotten mislynched a bunch of times looking at his record.
(2) your points against gigyas are somewhat legitimate regarding not understanding his reads, mindset but I also agree with Noon that how he's formulating scumteams looks towny. what I had wanted to ask you was the way you attacked his approach to the thread, he gave a lot of RL excuses but those excuses were nai.
where I have more trouble is that gigyas had posted since yet you made that same conclusion.
(1) I don't care for his history of being mislynched, I care for how I read him in this and and he looks scummy to me. Every time I let people survive because of playstyle I give him free pass to win the game as scum.
(2) I don't have to update my read on anyone if their new posts are as equal as their past posts. I can understand his point of killing me or Onegu as town, but I still think he looks scummy. I don't think working with scum teams is townie at all. Scum teams is so easy to set up as Mafia, because associative reads are way easier to fake than legitimate reads.
On January 07 2016 01:24 nooniansoong wrote: @GB - why townread FF if you have agreed that he's not confirmed town just because of the replacement. -why townread fidei even after that bad case? Obviously your case on mderg or gigyas is not that strong, since your reasoning is mostly based on their passive playstyle. SO why not consider fidei?
I'm not townreading FF but I think there are better lynches than him today.
I think fidei came strong to the game so I would only reevaluate him later if I survive
On January 07 2016 01:15 GlowingBear wrote: (2) I don't have to update my read on anyone if their new posts are as equal as their past posts. I can understand his point of killing me or Onegu as town, but I still think he looks scummy. I don't think working with scum teams is townie at all. Scum teams is so easy to set up as Mafia, because associative reads are way easier to fake than legitimate reads.
So what's left is lack of reads and passivity. Right?
Just remember you guys are heading to MYLO tomorrow. I suggest taking a look at my scum reads but also take a look at FF because I don't understand why he decided I'm town and that I should be sheeped
On January 07 2016 23:44 disformation wrote: @GiygaS: Don't be too hard on yourself. You had the right ideas in some cases and where like the only one really realizing that there was something really bad going on. But as I said, next game I want to see you having a bit more impact on the game and doing a bit more work, especially when you realize that something is off. I wish you had tried to use your coaching QT a bit more though, but I can also understand if you where trying to learn the game on your own.
Yeah you tried and it wasn't that bad tbh. If not anything else at least you didn't get mislynched and well... none of the townies had really good reads based on the outcome of the game so...
Also idk... have you played mafia elsewhere in the meantime? I remember you in some TL Mafia [insert number here] game ~2-3yrs ago.
NAH
I had Kmatt on day1 and ive correctly suspected NM
On January 08 2016 07:51 GiygaS wrote: May make a chrome extension this weekend to annotate posts like geript did for personal notes actually. Would anyone else be interested?
On January 08 2016 07:51 GiygaS wrote: May make a chrome extension this weekend to annotate posts like geript did for personal notes actually. Would anyone else be interested?
On January 07 2016 23:44 disformation wrote: @GiygaS: Don't be too hard on yourself. You had the right ideas in some cases and where like the only one really realizing that there was something really bad going on. But as I said, next game I want to see you having a bit more impact on the game and doing a bit more work, especially when you realize that something is off. I wish you had tried to use your coaching QT a bit more though, but I can also understand if you where trying to learn the game on your own.
Yeah you tried and it wasn't that bad tbh. If not anything else at least you didn't get mislynched and well... none of the townies had really good reads based on the outcome of the game so...
Also idk... have you played mafia elsewhere in the meantime? I remember you in some TL Mafia [insert number here] game ~2-3yrs ago.
NAH
I had Kmatt on day1 and ive correctly suspected NM
true. it doesn't matter much though if everyone wants to kil lyou with fire and you get lynched. and you voted for scott in the end...
True
I still don't understand why I was so scummy, but whatever
On January 08 2016 19:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem with scott is the same kinda problem that people have with VayneAuthority.
People don't interact with them a single bit. They just watch them post and at the EoD (or before) they decide "well you haven't posted anything meaningful now you die". It's an easy lynch for mafia, but usually town's fault. If you feel like someone isn't making conclusions / posting enough / discussing relevant matters -- guide them onto talking about what YOU want them to talk about (relevant matters). Interact with them.
In hindsight, scott had (after his earlier reads posts) these thoughts; I think Onegu has good reads as town --> I think Onegu is town --> I wanna sheep him onto lynching Fidei. wow.. wanted to lynch mafia.
Actually Rayn, people's problem with scott was his town read on Irishbound by saying a newbie could never play that way as Mafia when Irish repeatedly said he wasn't newbie at all
On January 08 2016 07:51 GiygaS wrote: May make a chrome extension this weekend to annotate posts like geript did for personal notes actually. Would anyone else be interested?
what does this mean? i am interested.
On January 08 2016 07:52 GlowingBear wrote:
On January 07 2016 23:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 07 2016 23:44 disformation wrote: @GiygaS: Don't be too hard on yourself. You had the right ideas in some cases and where like the only one really realizing that there was something really bad going on. But as I said, next game I want to see you having a bit more impact on the game and doing a bit more work, especially when you realize that something is off. I wish you had tried to use your coaching QT a bit more though, but I can also understand if you where trying to learn the game on your own.
Yeah you tried and it wasn't that bad tbh. If not anything else at least you didn't get mislynched and well... none of the townies had really good reads based on the outcome of the game so...
Also idk... have you played mafia elsewhere in the meantime? I remember you in some TL Mafia [insert number here] game ~2-3yrs ago.
NAH
I had Kmatt on day1 and ive correctly suspected NM
true. it doesn't matter much though if everyone wants to kil lyou with fire and you get lynched. and you voted for scott in the end...
True
I still don't understand why I was so scummy, but whatever
On January 09 2016 03:04 Half the Sky wrote: Welcome back Shapelog, I hope you are well.
James, I think I'm just going to say something to you I've always said, and ritoky and a few others say, mafia is a team game. Everyone has to play their role and work with each other. You lot strategised very well, and as Mage even said in the qt itself, disruption was needed in mylo and you ran it very well.
Don't sell yourself short. <3
Even if you were bussed, it would have appeared that a plan was behind it and associative reads were being made away from your teammates.
Not everyone can "carry" town or mafia. Even DYH told you in that qt you need to aim for different objectives to disassociate and you did what was needed.
Only onegu is the hard carry. If only people learned to listen to him what a world it would be.
Hard carries can hard carry a game and use their influence to push through lynches. You didn't seem to even garner votes to your cause.
I thought hard carries were mostly strength heroes ]
EPT
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