Newbie Student Mafia XVIII - Page 3

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 02 2016 14:36 GMT

#727

On January 02 2016 23:30 nooniansoong wrote:
Do not clap for a wall of text lol.

Kush you here? What do you think about Kmatt's post? Ithe thing that stands out to me is the hyper aggressive tone. Its kind of a change from his D1.

Now you have to read it too

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 02 2016 15:42 GMT

#737

On January 02 2016 23:58 nooniansoong wrote:
Fidei.I didn't read it. I skimmed it and it confirms my newb town read.
Yes it's aggressive in tone which I think is town coming from a newer player. He seems to believe what he's saying.
Except town does do all those things he said town doesn't do. So I don't think it's a good case.

I don't think being aggressive in reads is necessarily newb town, especially when that townie has previously been kinda meek. Ehhhh.

I really want to hear from Shining and Alex (NM) before I update all my reads. I'll quickly read GB's filter a bit to see if I can get a handle on it. That said, the fact that Onegu is so happy to jump onto GB for literally the flimsiest reasons I've ever seen make me more sure that Onegu is scum, which makes it unlikely GB is with him. But, associative reads, I get it.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 02 2016 15:55 GMT

#742

Only two points on GB:
1. His early reads were mostly town reads and were short, but that fits in with him being in another game. Kmatt puts a lot of emphasis on that in his case, but it's NAI if anything. In my mind it's more towny than anything as he would find it harder to walk back if he needed for a ML.
2. My experience of playing GB is that he struggles to maintain calm when he plays as scum. In the game we played together, he was much more acerbic and less flexible with his reads. He's different here - note #736 where he re-evaluates on Kmatt.

GB is an experienced player who probably could change up his meta, but I think he's probably town. He's not the lynch today for sure.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 02 2016 15:58 GMT

#744

On January 03 2016 00:55 mderg wrote:

Show nested quote +

I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play.

##vote GB

I'm going to go look at Irish's filter now, to check. GB's recap looks right to me, but best to be sure.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 02 2016 16:05 GMT

#747

Irish's reads were:

He sets out his reads at #427, which are:
Scott scum
NM town
GB town
Kush scum
mderg town
Kmatt town
Fidei null
Shape town
Gigya scum
Onegu null/town

Not really sure which reads you think GB missed out mderg? Gonna check your filter now for your progression on GB.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 02 2016 16:11 GMT

#749

Can you explain your read progression on GB? Up until now you've not really interacted with him at all, You say at #709 that you want to lynch GB because of the scumslip discussion, but I assumed that wasn't a serious read. You say at #567 that Scott flipping town would make him look worse, but only because hedefended Scott. Then at #588 you agree with GB's reads. Is your entire scum read really off of GB correctly reciting Irish's reads ???

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 03 2016 18:30 GMT

#838

I'm a bit concerned that nobody has really defended Onegu at all, but at this point if he's scum his scummates are probably trying to distance themselves from him. Also, GB is not the lynch today. I don't really like any of the points made against him.

##vote: Onegu

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 04 2016 23:15 GMT

#1046

Hey guys, sorry I've been AFK for a while. Yesterday was the last day of my Christmas break and then I was back in the office today. I have an hour or so before bed and so I'll catch up.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 04 2016 23:42 GMT

#1047

On January 04 2016 08:19 Kmatt wrote:
Okay so all things considered that last 10 minutes were pure bull.

Show nested quote +

On January 04 2016 07:48 The Shining wrote:

On January 04 2016 07:15 Kmatt wrote:
Well. That was an interesting turn of events.

While I haven't given up my claim against GB (possibly even stronger now), Shining definitely got me thinking about the voting patterns. I had my suspicions about Shapelog but was hoping for the GB reveal to give me the info I needed.

I'm leaving for a while, and will probably spend most of the night phase working this out. And that's to say nothing of a potential NK.

I didn't directly answer your question before but I didn't forget about you.

On January 03 2016 11:18 Kmatt wrote:
Don't know if anyone else just noticed but TheCow has been replaced by The Shining. I had my theories on Cow, but since his "character" has been replaced more or less I'd like our "new" friend to weigh in on some current events. Obviously he should read the thread when appropriate, but for when he's finished:

1) Seeing the previous days' discussion in the context current death toll, who or what do you think the biggest factor in Scott's mislynch was?
2) Similarly, why do you think the mafia went for Irish on the first night? (technically if we have both a doctor and vigilante in this game then that might not have been the case but for the sake of argument I'll assume Irish's death was the mafia's doing) Did any of his reads stand out to you or did any arguments he put out seem to be catching on with the thread?
3) Could you weigh in on my GB case? Obviously my opinion on the matter is plain to see, so I'd like to see some other people bounce ideas off of it. Do you think I over-reacted or overlooked anything in my wall of text?

Granted, anyone is invited to answer these, but since I didn't get to see much from Cow before he left, I'd like a bit more insight from his replacement.

Irish flipped town and I have a pretty solid TR on NM, who are the first 2 votes on Scott. Irish also pushed this lynch pretty hard. I believe the lynch was a case of town adamantly pushing the town ML and scum having to do zero work on it. I wouldn't be surprised if there was only one scum on the Scott wagon and the rest were off-wagon. Like kush/noon. If i choose to believe GB is town, that leaves me with mderg/Fidei/Giygas as one of the scum on the Scott wagon.

Kush can you explain to me how you went from voting Fidei WITH Onegu D1 to voting Onegu WITH Fidei D2?

I also really hate outlier votes and have caught scum that way, because scum wouldn't want to all be on the wagon if its a mislynch, like Scotts wagon. So I'm immediately suspicious of Kmatt and Shapelog. But I found a few townie brownies in your filter and Shape is apparently being replaced or modkilled so I won't get too much into that until next day phase, assuming I live.

I'll probably go read Fidei and mderg and giygas tonight.

2) I won't go too much into this, since I don't know the setup. If we have a doctor, he could've been a medic dodge. If we don't, it could've been for his strong presence in thread and being TR by many. It couldve been for his reads. It could've been the possibility of him revisiting his wrong reads. There are too many possibilities and since I don't know the setup, and neither does scum according to the OP, its really hard to figure out the motive behind that shot.

3) honestly, I skimmed it and it was a bit hard to follow. A bit too much narrative for my taste, instead of concrete reasoning for why GBs actions and posts made him scum. And I really thought I was onto something with the lack of friction RE: the GB lynch so I let that take over my actions. I can go revisit it if you'd like but I don't remember seeing anything that was distinctly "damn he's right GB is scummy" instead of "well I've seen bad town GB do bad stuff before".

I will admit, though, that might just be bias from playing with a bad town GB before XD also, what exactly were you thinking about the voting patterns?

I'll admit I might have been having a bit of fun with my write-up. Still, there's one point I'd like to have explained by anyone at this point. I could tag most any of his quoted posts as being anti-town, but my biggest issue (which I'm honestly surprised that it seems to be overlooked) is right here:

Show nested quote +

(For context, he was voting on me day1)

Show nested quote +

Now what in the hell was this.

GB Believes me to be scum
GB Asserts that Scott is town
GB Declares that he would not lynch Scott over a stronger scumread (me)
GB Drops his vote on a scumread(me) to intentionally vote Scott who he believed to be town, not because he believed Scott was scum, but because Scott was going to vote Onegu, who GB claimed he had a stronger townread on.
Nevermind that Onegu had 0 votes to Scott's leading 4 at the time of the post. At least the other people on Scott's wagon claimed he was scum. GB doesn't even pretend to believe that.

And we all know how that ended. That entire logic train leading to the vote switch was entirely anti-town.

Just skimming through Kmatt's filter and this post really stands out to me.

This is just a fucking bizarre argument to me. At the time when GB voted he was the only voter on you, and there were 4 on scott and three on me. It was EOD and there was a pretty heavily contested lynch. It would be MUCH scummier for GB to have AFK'd through the day and just taken the lynch on Onegu or me (both town). Instead, he consolidated onto Scott, who he thought was more scummy than me. I don't understand the confusion? Isn't that super towny?

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 04 2016 23:44 GMT

#1048

Bah, I meant "taken the lynch on Scott or me (both town."

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 04 2016 23:50 GMT

#1049

Ahhhhh this is fucking hellish. TLM crashes every time I try and change pages or post a reply. Is anyone else having this problem? It's also not letting me type - I have to type it all into notepad then copy and paste just to post. It should be a little easier from work hopefully - will post catch-up then.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 05 2016 00:10 GMT

#1051

Yeah it works okay on my phone but not on computer. *facepalm*

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 05 2016 12:27 GMT

#1059

On January 05 2016 21:22 nooniansoong wrote:
Ok I think I changed my mind about gb. More later

From your filter I think you were town reading him before? So now you're scum reading him?

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 05 2016 14:24 GMT

#1067

Ugh lots of people seem to be switching onto GB but I haven't really seen a convincing case yet. I'd much rather lynch into mderg/Gigya/KMatt. NM what are these phrases you talk about? I don't remember looking at the Mafia QT in NSM XIV..

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 05 2016 14:29 GMT

#1069

Like the charge that GB switching onto Scott was scummy is just not that strong. It was a contested lynch and town consolidate. So if GB is scum then it's not for that.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 05 2016 14:32 GMT

#1070

On January 05 2016 23:28 nooniansoong wrote:

Show nested quote +

I see you defending GB a lot, but I don't see you putting forth good reasons to vote mderg/gigya/kmatt.

Yeah I'm phone posting at work this evening. I'm hoping my TL will be working from home tonight and I can get into it. The short answer is Gigya has offered no content, mderg has been entirely responsive and reactive, and KMatt's tunnel on GB is getting very fishy. But I really want to double check those with filters because I might be getting too tunnelled myself.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 05 2016 22:18 GMT

#1106

This wagon on GB gives me the super heebie-jeebies. There are too many people jumping onto it too easily and with too little explanation. I think we should be lynching mderg instead, for the following reasons:

His first read on GB makes no sense

At #237 he notes that people are quick to jump on GB, for reasons that he agrees with "his opening was fishy", but he doesn't like it because it "feels too easy". So the opening is scummy, but people pointing that out is fishy? Huh?

His second read on GB is based on a falsity

Day 2 he votes GB initially (#741) for absolutely shit reasons - GB quoted Irish's reads accurately, and tried to do some NK WIFOM. Mderg then said that GB had NOT given Irish's reads correctly (which GB had) and voted for him. When called out on it, he tried to say that GB had cherry picked votes, which he HADN'T. This is just a read based on a factual innaccuracy, but instead of admitting the mistake, he doubles down.

He parrots other people's reasons for voting

His Scott vote at #455 was for reasons that had already been set out by others (set out helpfully by Irish at #441). On top of that, he also says that he's going to "park his vote" there, which is pretty scummy as it indicates a lack of conviction and looks to be leaving himself room to change later. He doesn't actually change his vote, despite not really saying anything about scott through the rest of the day.

When he finally explained his GB read after the #741 issue, he basically just summarised what people had said previously about GB. Then at #815 he calls out Kmatt's case, but says that he agrees with some of it and that GB is scum anyway.

His posts are responsive and reactive.

Most of his posts throughout his filter are responses to other posts. It's a classic scum technique of appearing active, while actually not contributing anything. See, for example, #599, #587, although really most of his filter fits the pattern.

His only long posts have come recently, and they seem to have mostly been an explanation of his own play in past games ... big help.

LYNCH mderg. Please.

##vote: mderg

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 05 2016 22:40 GMT

#1110

On January 03 2016 00:55 mderg wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is your post. So it's not so much that you said that the reads were wrong, but that they were misleading. I just don't see how you could think that. GB posted all of Irish's scum reads, which was the basis of GB's post.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 05 2016 22:50 GMT

#1114

On January 06 2016 07:49 mderg wrote:

Show nested quote +

I feel like you're arguing about semantics. Of course he wrote down Irish's reads but he simply listed them down and picked the one that was more suitable for him.

That was the point of his post - discussing Irish's scum reads..

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

January 05 2016 23:05 GMT

#1117

He literally said the reason he was not dead was because Irish was right in one of his scum reads. Then he gave Irish's scum reads.

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