EPT##vote marv
heading to work will be around most the day
Really Small Mafia II - Page 9
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Damdred
15669 Posts
##vote marv heading to work will be around most the day | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43269 Posts
On December 13 2015 19:43 DarthPunk wrote: No I have not seen his scum play. It is based on him not giving a fuck what he looks like. I think that is a townie trait more than a scum trait. Well you should probably look at his scumgames then. Anyways i'm gonna be here properly in like 3-4 hours until the EOD. Until then: ##vote marvellosity | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43269 Posts
On December 13 2015 19:41 Rels wrote: rayn can you confirm this is usual so I don't have to meta him ? I don't understand why the question is relevant. I mean, DP is not really a player who you figure out by "I could see him being scum waiting for someone to ask for his explanation, then posting it anyway" (i.e. the way he constructs his posts) if he is scum. | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
marvellosity (4): Rels, DarthPunk, raynpelikoneet, Damdred Not voting (3): RtaniSoul, marvellosity, GreYMisT Currently, marvellosity is set to be lynched. Deadline is Sunday, Dec 13 9:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00) (in ). Voting is mandatory! If there are errors, please let us know. | ||
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
We kind of think Damdred and Rayn are easy townreads right now. Damdred for being lighthearted and happy to interact. Rayn for not tunneling and actually attempting to interact with his reads. Kind of leaning town on GreY. Just don't think he'd go after Damdy and Rayn when everyone and their mom is townreading them. Especially if Marv is mafia, he'd actually have to line up mislynches and no one wants to lynch either of them right now. We don't think the post about Rayn being vocal was alignment indicative, and a bunch of things in his big post stuck out as townish. One thing we didn't like though was the marv post and trying to get him modkilled instead, but that would be an easy scum tactic that doesn't make much sense in combination with trying to push damdred/rayn. We think he's just wrong mostly. Marv is clearly scum at this point. ##Vote Marvellosity Which leaves DP and Rels for the last scum. Some of what Rels has posted looks okay and some of it doesn't. There's a few instances where it seems like he's throwing suspicions on people without trying to figure them out like he did The way he approached DP and our slot in a way that seems more focused on burying rather than solving. An exception to that would be this post: On December 13 2015 19:50 Rels wrote: How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions. On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda. He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ? You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ? Where it feels like he's actually trying to work with GM. Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts. On December 12 2015 23:27 Rels wrote: ##Vote marv Do stuff or die. Otherwise here is my mind atm: rayn Damdred grey Arta/rsoul marv DP About the reiteration Our concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread. For DP, it feels like he's buddying a bunch of players and the GM scumread seems too easy and shallow. He also spent a lot more time on his townreads than his scumreads. There just doesn't seem to be much drive to find scum in him. It's also telling that we can't really say much about his filter besides a bunch of reasons for people to be town. Town Damdred Raynpelikoneet Leaning Town GreYMisT Leaning Scum Rels DarthPunk Mafia Marvellosity | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote: So here's where we're at right now. We kind of think Damdred and Rayn are easy townreads right now. Damdred for being lighthearted and happy to interact. Rayn for not tunneling and actually attempting to interact with his reads. Kind of leaning town on GreY. Just don't think he'd go after Damdy and Rayn when everyone and their mom is townreading them. Especially if Marv is mafia, he'd actually have to line up mislynches and no one wants to lynch either of them right now. We don't think the post about Rayn being vocal was alignment indicative, and a bunch of things in his big post stuck out as townish. One thing we didn't like though was the marv post and trying to get him modkilled instead, but that would be an easy scum tactic that doesn't make much sense in combination with trying to push damdred/rayn. We think he's just wrong mostly. Marv is clearly scum at this point. ##Vote Marvellosity Which leaves DP and Rels for the last scum. Some of what Rels has posted looks okay and some of it doesn't. There's a few instances where it seems like he's throwing suspicions on people without trying to figure them out like he did The way he approached DP and our slot in a way that seems more focused on burying rather than solving. An exception to that would be this post: Where it feels like he's actually trying to work with GM. Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts. About the reiteration Our concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread. For DP, it feels like he's buddying a bunch of players and the GM scumread seems too easy and shallow. He also spent a lot more time on his townreads than his scumreads. There just doesn't seem to be much drive to find scum in him. It's also telling that we can't really say much about his filter besides a bunch of reasons for people to be town. Town Damdred Raynpelikoneet Leaning Town GreYMisT Leaning Scum Rels DarthPunk Mafia Marvellosity ##Vote: Marvellosity Marv is obviously the vote today. I'm a bit worried because it seems to me that mafia marv would be able to just make token posts to make day1 at least a bit harder for us, but this is immaterial. Also Ritani I disagree with you about ryan. I don't think that interacting with reads and and not tunneling pwople is worthy of being solidly town. Do you have anything else you are basing the read off of that I havnt noticed? On December 13 2015 19:50 Rels wrote: How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions. On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda. He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ? You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ? At that time you had yet to post anything game related. in addition, he technically wasnt scum reading you, you were in s a "??" category because you had not yet posted. Because of this, I inferred that he didnt actually have a scum read on you during that time. Also I'm not townreading you. At this point i'm just trying to bring up things as I see them. Nothing in my analysis depends on one person or antother being mafia. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
Why is it scum oriented in this case to really just try to find town in this setup though? Marv is obvious scum, wouldn't the optimal plan to be to try to Poe the last one since we still have two lynches? | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On December 13 2015 17:56 DarthPunk wrote: Why are you deflecting the decision making onto others here? Do you not have your own opinion on what we should do in this situation? This didn't turn out like I planned becuase I posted from a phone, so to verify this you are going to have to either trust me or check it out on an iphone like device. I posted this "food for though" only to see how people would react to an obviously bad plan to try on day 1. For proof: when I posted this on mobile the letters on the left hand column spelled "A Plan", but here they just say ABA. additionally you can see that the language is a bit weird to fit some of the letters in. Here is what I found: I like DP a lot more for this post. He is the only one to call me out for posting such a stupid alternative plan. That indicates to me that he is trying to find scum. In addition, the way he thought that Rels slipped up relation to this shows me that he is in a scum hunting mood. The other 2 people who commented on the post told me it was a bad idea, this is neither really scum nor town indicative to me. A townie could either not want so a bad plan to stick around in the thread for scum to sieze on, while a scum could use this as an easy way to get town cred. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On December 14 2015 00:43 Damdred wrote: Well...that's not a bad post. Why is it scum oriented in this case to really just try to find town in this setup though? Marv is obvious scum, wouldn't the optimal plan to be to try to Poe the last one since we still have two lynches? I'm not sure if I said this, maybe you misread? point it out to me if I did. I don't think its scum oriented to find town, im just wary at the moment of using marv "certainly" being scum to get town reads atm because we don't have a flip. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
Sorry for the confussion. But now that we are here in the thread. Do you not see anything Towney in rayns play? | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On December 14 2015 00:57 Damdred wrote: Oh no no, you ninjad between art/rs and my post. That was directed at his point about dp. Sorry for the confussion. But now that we are here in the thread. Do you not see anything Towney in rayns play? And I thought you were complimenting me, how embarrasing! Like I said in my earlier post, I do see towny elements in Rayns play. However, certain things stand out to me as scummy. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43269 Posts
I am particularly looking for an answer to this post: | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43269 Posts
On December 13 2015 18:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: I never said there could not be scum between them. I said i think there is no way BOTH of the scum are between them. I provided analysis on why i reached to the conclusion. I am not arbitary putting people into categories, if you think my analysis is incorrect, please argue about why they are incorrect instead of just creating a narrative on the conclusion. I am not saying it is certain you are mafia. In fact i am far more sure of marv being scum at this point based purely on the fact that he well knows the game has started and has decided to not post anything at all. The conclusion that at least one of you / marv has to be mafia for me is completely logical based on the analysis on other people -- basically it is due to PoE. Again, if you do not agree with this, please point out where i am wrong in my analysis. Then we have something to argue about. Tbf, you can't just say something is scummy / wrong without actually explaining why it is that way. I feel like i have provided my thought process behind every conclusion i have made in this game -- so it would only be natural for you to actually try to disprove my conclusions if you attack my arguments, no? Again, i have already said why i think this is the case. Why is my (and Damdred's) "jump" on Rels "rushed and oppertunistic". I found out Rels' thought process illogical and the things he posted didn't match up with the conclusions he ended up with. I wanted him to elaborate further, and i don't think "that going nowhere" is my fault, since Rels' answer was basically "yeah that's what i think". In my opinion this has bearing when you analyze every single other player who has posted that far in the game. I consider it weird because if you are mafia you would either: 1) correctly call me town -- in which case it hinders your mislynch possibilities 2) incorrectly call me mafia -- in which case your logic is not sound in the first place and someone can catch you for it Furthermore at some point you were saying you didn't have a read on me. But around half of your case (idk.. is this a case?) is based on the timeline when you didn't have a read on me, and is also basically based on everything i did during that time.. How is it possible both of your statements are correct? | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
I can see both sides on you and dp and Rels. Its difficult past this lynch though. You will obviously say if I come to that concussion has to be between Rels and do. But I'm conflicted you sound somewhat towny and that trap post was decent... difficult | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On December 13 2015 18:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: I never said there could not be scum between them. I said i think there is no way BOTH of the scum are between them. I provided analysis on why i reached to the conclusion. I am not arbitary putting people into categories, if you think my analysis is incorrect, please argue about why they are incorrect instead of just creating a narrative on the conclusion. I am not saying it is certain you are mafia. In fact i am far more sure of marv being scum at this point based purely on the fact that he well knows the game has started and has decided to not post anything at all. The conclusion that at least one of you / marv has to be mafia for me is completely logical based on the analysis on other people -- basically it is due to PoE. Again, if you do not agree with this, please point out where i am wrong in my analysis. Then we have something to argue about. Tbf, you can't just say something is scummy / wrong without actually explaining why it is that way. I feel like i have provided my thought process behind every conclusion i have made in this game -- so it would only be natural for you to actually try to disprove my conclusions if you attack my arguments, no? Again, i have already said why i think this is the case. Why is my (and Damdred's) "jump" on Rels "rushed and oppertunistic". I found out Rels' thought process illogical and the things he posted didn't match up with the conclusions he ended up with. I wanted him to elaborate further, and i don't think "that going nowhere" is my fault, since Rels' answer was basically "yeah that's what i think". In my opinion this has bearing when you analyze every single other player who has posted that far in the game. I consider it weird because if you are mafia you would either: 1) correctly call me town -- in which case it hinders your mislynch possibilities 2) incorrectly call me mafia -- in which case your logic is not sound in the first place and someone can catch you for it Furthermore at some point you were saying you didn't have a read on me. But around half of your case (idk.. is this a case?) is based on the timeline when you didn't have a read on me, and is also basically based on everything i did during that time.. How is it possible both of your statements are correct? 1) I missread your first point then, my mistake 2) my issue with your analysis of me being mafia was not the fact that you think so, but the fact you admit it is only based on process of elimination. It is easy for mafia to point out how people are town and then say "well by process of elimination this person has to be mafia." It is far harder for mafia to actually find reasons that a town player is scummy. I like town hunting and using process of elimination to know who to focus on, but that cannot be the main support you have behind someone being scum. At least not on day 1. 3) I didn't go into great detail because I dont think you are for sure scum, just that I was suspicious of some of your actions. If I thought you were the lynch today trust me, there would be much more reasoning. Nevertheless, I thought the reason behind my suspicion was fairly straightforward. Your actions looked to me like a mafia setting up tomorrows misslynch, and not trying to get something done. Thats just what I see. Finally, I dont really understand what you are saying at the end there, but I only posted on 2 players who I was able to analyize fairly quickly, and saved you for later. I am under no obligation to mention every player in the game when I post about someone but you seem to think that I am, at least about you. I think this is weird. I think this is weird becuase, Town rayn would only care about my opinion of him if he wants to see how I conduct my analysis or wants me to give a bearing on how something has gone in the game. This game had only been going on for a page or two at this point so there was nothing pressing to analyze, not a lot of content that needed commenting on, and its completly understandable that people are gathering their thoughts. I therefore think it is more likely that scum ryan would want me to analyze him early. A scum player can survive day one by posting a lot, and basically using that presence to get people to townread him early. When I analyzied two players and didnt analyize ryan, a scum ryan would be a bit worried that his plan to be percieved as town through activity has failed to some degree. I see this request to "analyize me!" as a very low risk attempt to get people to town read him. Basically there is a very small benefit to doing this as town, but a low risk and high reward to do it as scum. | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
marvellosity (6): Rels, DarthPunk, raynpelikoneet, Damdred, RtaniSoul, GreYMisT Not voting (1): marvellosity Currently, marvellosity is set to be lynched. Deadline is Sunday, Dec 13 9:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00) (in ). Voting is mandatory! If there are errors, please let us know. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
@GM regarding rayn...it's the way his overall approach to the thread feels when he's town vs. scum. From my experience (and again lex agrees) a town rayn can be stubborn, tunneled, etc. but he actively works with his hard townreads to get reads and interacts with people to develop/clarify his current read. As scum, it tends to resemble more of a very precocious toddler trying to force a triangle through a circle-shaped hole. The collaborative/interactive feel simply isn't there, even when he's active in the thread. (Also, waiting to see if others see what he sees, as he was doing early game, is something I've only seen from a town rayn). I'm pretty certain of this read. @Damdy yeah, you're right. There's nothing wrong with focusing on PoE, and we definitely could be wrong about DP. Lex and I have waffled on him back and forth as we read the thread. PoE makes sense if you have no scumreads, but we still just don't see much actual scumhunting in his filter and it still bugs us. We can get a sense of where most people would be voting if they weren't voting marv, but we don't have the same feeling about DP. @DP, if you could address the above question...who is scum other than marv?...that would be nice. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43269 Posts
Town rayn would only care about my opinion of him if he wants to see how I conduct my analysis or wants me to give a bearing on how something has gone in the game. See, that was the point. My problem regarding this is not really the fact that you didn't have a read on me at that point, i don't think that is necessarily scummy. My problem is that WHEN you actually said you have a read on me, about 50% of the read is based on my actions that happened during the time you said you don't have a read on me... | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43269 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i68.tinypic.com/smrue1.jpg) See, i can't legit understand the arrows with the questionmarks. You had said, after i had done those things that you do not have a read on me. Later on, when you express your scumread on me, part of the reasoning is based on the time BEFORE you said you had no read on me. So, i can't really figure it out why you, as town, would say you don't have a read on me if i have already done something scummy. Or if you re-read and came to a different conclusion afterwards why did you not clearly point that out then? I am talking about these things here: First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling. Finally, Ryan asking my read of him. This strikes me as odd as well because it appears as though he wants to draw some early fire for an easy opportunity to defend himself through activity. A question like "why didn't you analyze me?!" Has bearing on day 2, but not a quarter into day 1 when information is still being processed. Both of these things happened before you made this post: On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote: I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have. ...where you literally state you do not have a read on me. The rest of your case i consider answered properly because it is based on you misreading one of my posts, no? | ||
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