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On December 16 2015 00:41 GreYMisT wrote:
Also, just for fun, I was literally (no joke) about to change my save to damdred. I went with someone else, deciding not to try to game the mafia and it turned out wrong. Would have been a sick play.
I think you should have flipped the coin between me and Damdred because we lynched mafia. 
##vote RtaniSoul
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We still have a day. I would ask that the town don't come down upon Rels like I sense we are about to. This day can either be entirly about him defending himself and getting lynched anyway, or it can be about him trying to find the other scum through good methods.
Though if you just keep quoting Rtani and saying "conceed" I will quickly reevaluate my position.
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On December 16 2015 00:42 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2015 00:40 RtaniSoul wrote:On December 16 2015 00:38 Rels wrote:
Concede please (= I'm super happy you're not bad townies. I was super mad this morning about your badness but I couldn't consider you town over GM making up a reason for his own post. You tried so hard and got so far but in the end you're still getting lynched today or tomorrow Man if I lose this game because you saw that marv posted but didn't bother writing stuff, I have no problem (= actually if you're town I want us to concede. Now way scum should lose here.
Please do inform us how actively lurking and having our vote on scum is scummier than just being afk
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On December 16 2015 00:43 GreYMisT wrote:
We still have a day. I would ask that the town don't come down upon Rels like I sense we are about to. This day can either be entirly about him defending himself and getting lynched anyway, or it can be about him trying to find the other scum through good methods.
Though if you just keep quoting Rtani and saying "conceed" I will quickly reevaluate my position.
Do you think it's believable that artasoul saw marv post during EOD1 but didn't bother writing stuff while everyone else was panicking ?
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No there is a really big inconsistancy in what the hydra says in contrast to how they had acted before / at the time marv started posting (regardless of if they are telling the truth about reading marv's posts there or not).
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On December 16 2015 00:44 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2015 00:43 GreYMisT wrote:
We still have a day. I would ask that the town don't come down upon Rels like I sense we are about to. This day can either be entirly about him defending himself and getting lynched anyway, or it can be about him trying to find the other scum through good methods.
Though if you just keep quoting Rtani and saying "conceed" I will quickly reevaluate my position. Do you think it's believable that artasoul saw marv post during EOD1 but didn't bother writing stuff while everyone else was panicking ?
It doesnt look good, though its possible, however unlikely
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Rels can you do me a favor please
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On December 16 2015 00:44 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2015 00:42 Rels wrote:On December 16 2015 00:40 RtaniSoul wrote:On December 16 2015 00:38 Rels wrote:
Concede please (= I'm super happy you're not bad townies. I was super mad this morning about your badness but I couldn't consider you town over GM making up a reason for his own post. You tried so hard and got so far but in the end you're still getting lynched today or tomorrow Man if I lose this game because you saw that marv posted but didn't bother writing stuff, I have no problem (= actually if you're town I want us to concede. Now way scum should lose here. Please do inform us how actively lurking and having our vote on scum is scummier than just being afk
Maybe you are lying about "actively lurking". Who knows.
Your story doesn't make sense anyways.
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I am going to write a post about that in two hours in case Rels doesnt' do that earlier.
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On December 16 2015 00:46 GreYMisT wrote:
Rels can you do me a favor please
Yep doc. Sry for the aggressiveness earlier, I know it's hard to be on the receiving end of aggressive questionning. Even if I don't understand how the fuck you could invent something that didn't exist.
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On December 16 2015 00:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No there is a really big inconsistancy in what the hydra says in contrast to how they had acted before / at the time marv started posting (regardless of if they are telling the truth about reading marv's posts there or not).
Don't really care as long as you lynch rels tomorrow but lay it down anyway
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On December 16 2015 00:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am going to write a post about that in two hours in case Rels doesnt' do that earlier.
You will have to do it I'm leaving work soon.
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On December 16 2015 00:39 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2015 00:34 Rels wrote:On December 16 2015 00:31 Rels wrote:On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote:Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?" Wait. What time are you talking about exactly ? LOL yes that cannot be interpreted another way. It's a time AFTER marv started posting but BEFORE his alignement was known. Arsoultin didn't post a single post during that period. So they were observing but didn't post in the crisis that was EOD1. We checked in to check once when marv was posting and then everyone was switching to rels and we were fine with that. After that we got the deadline wrong by an hour so we missed that part.
No GM it's not possible this behaviour comes from town. And if that's the case, they should lose.
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On December 16 2015 00:47 Rels wrote:Yep doc. Sry for the aggressiveness earlier, I know it's hard to be on the receiving end of aggressive questionning. Even if I don't understand how the fuck you could invent something that didn't exist.
Not really, I didnt mind it. I was never going to get lynched this game, doubt I would have even if I wasnt the doc (would have not played as a blue in that case)
I have you in one of 2 categories: you are either overzealous town, or new/panicking mafia. To figure out if you are town or mafia I'd like you to just post your thoughts about Rayn, DP, and Rtani. just a paragraph about each is fine, feel free to copy and paste earlier analysis you have done, I just dont want to see "he is scum" be the only thing there.
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Post 1:
On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote:Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"
Post 2:
Show nested quote +On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote:
Otherwise here is my mind atm:
rayn
Damdred
grey
Arta/rsoul
marv
DP
About the reiterationOur concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread.
For DP, it feels like he's buddying a bunch of players and the GM scumread seems too easy and shallow. He also spent a lot more time on his townreads than his scumreads. There just doesn't seem to be much drive to find scum in him. It's also telling that we can't really say much about his filter besides a bunch of reasons for people to be town. TownDamdred Raynpelikoneet Leaning TownGreYMisT Leaning ScumRels DarthPunk MafiaMarvellosity
Post 3:
On December 14 2015 02:13 RtaniSoul wrote:
@Damdy yeah, you're right. There's nothing wrong with focusing on PoE, and we definitely could be wrong about DP. Lex and I have waffled on him back and forth as we read the thread. PoE makes sense if you have no scumreads, but we still just don't see much actual scumhunting in his filter and it still bugs us. We can get a sense of where most people would be voting if they weren't voting marv, but we don't have the same feeling about DP.
@DP, if you could address the above question...who is scum other than marv?...that would be nice.
Those were the last posts of you on D1.[/QUOTE]
Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"
Now in the Post 1 the hydra says this:
"When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town"
That implies (as they claim, they have been reading the thread after marv started posting but before the deadline). In case they are lying about this they are 100% scum so let's not discuss that at all. Let's assume they are telling the truth.
However, they say "Artanis thought marv could be town". At this point of the game, based on Post 2 and Post 3, which are the last posts before the deadline from them, they are literally scumreading DP over Rels. It makes sense that Artanis says that, since marv is voting for DP (their top scumread). However it doesn't make any sense that rsoultin says "but who else could rels be scum with?", for these reasons:
1) It's easily possible here, if marv is in fact town, that Rels is mafia with DP -- or at least it should be for them, since nothing in their posting implicates otherwise.
2) The posts (2) and (3) are their collective thoughts. If they thought Rels is somehow mafia over DP (which can't be seen from their posting) -- well the thread is there for expressing the thought, even without reasoning laid out for it. Again, if they thought that is the case -- there is no implication for it, so it sounds like bullshit.
Therefore i find it impossible they are telling the truth here.
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On December 16 2015 00:52 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2015 00:47 Rels wrote:On December 16 2015 00:46 GreYMisT wrote:
Rels can you do me a favor please Yep doc. Sry for the aggressiveness earlier, I know it's hard to be on the receiving end of aggressive questionning. Even if I don't understand how the fuck you could invent something that didn't exist. Not really, I didnt mind it. I was never going to get lynched this game, doubt I would have even if I wasnt the doc (would have not played as a blue in that case) I have you in one of 2 categories: you are either overzealous town, or new/panicking mafia. To figure out if you are town or mafia I'd like you to just post your thoughts about Rayn, DP, and Rtani. just a paragraph about each is fine, feel free to copy and paste earlier analysis you have done, I just dont want to see "he is scum" be the only thing there.
Cool.
rayn is town 'cause he could have lynched me easily during EOD1. rayn is an extremely mechanical player, if he can gain an advantage to win the game he will do it.
DP is probably town because marv voted him at EOD. marv knows he's a respectable player and even only posting 10 minutes, he could get DP lynched.
If that's not enough, I feel like he's scumhunting and not faking his thoughts. Like a few hours ago; he went in, gave his thoughts on arsoul you and I, and these thoughts were logical; he didn't think the misstep you did made you scum, he found my attitude townie, he didn't like arsoul's not caring about the game.
arsoul is scum for what they just posted. But if you want to know more, I made this post when I still was sure you were scum about why I was disappointed with their play:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/499921-really-small-mafia-ii?page=27#535
Their basis for their reads are bad. Like apparently you are town because you have a townie tone and because you wouldn't attack rayn & Damdred as scum. This is a very bad reason to townread someone. There also was a moment where they townread me 'cause "Why would he not scumread us as scum ?" That's really bad.
They also are not caring about the game. Evidently, they didn't post during EOD + 13 hours after it; and they're not trying to solve the game.
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ebwop: fixed quotes and shit.
Show nested quote +On December 16 2015 01:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:Post 1:On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote:Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?" Post 2:On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote:
Otherwise here is my mind atm:
rayn
Damdred
grey
Arta/rsoul
marv
DP
About the reiterationOur concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread.
For DP, it feels like he's buddying a bunch of players and the GM scumread seems too easy and shallow. He also spent a lot more time on his townreads than his scumreads. There just doesn't seem to be much drive to find scum in him. It's also telling that we can't really say much about his filter besides a bunch of reasons for people to be town. TownDamdred Raynpelikoneet Leaning TownGreYMisT Leaning ScumRels DarthPunk MafiaMarvellosity On December 14 2015 02:13 RtaniSoul wrote:
@Damdy yeah, you're right. There's nothing wrong with focusing on PoE, and we definitely could be wrong about DP. Lex and I have waffled on him back and forth as we read the thread. PoE makes sense if you have no scumreads, but we still just don't see much actual scumhunting in his filter and it still bugs us. We can get a sense of where most people would be voting if they weren't voting marv, but we don't have the same feeling about DP.
@DP, if you could address the above question...who is scum other than marv?...that would be nice. Now in the Post 1 the hydra says this: "When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town" That implies (as they claim, they have been reading the thread after marv started posting but before the deadline). In case they are lying about this they are 100% scum so let's not discuss that at all. Let's assume they are telling the truth. However, they say "Artanis thought marv could be town". At this point of the game, based on Post 2 and Post 3, which are the last posts before the deadline from them, they are literally scumreading DP over Rels. It makes sense that Artanis says that, since marv is voting for DP (their top scumread). However it doesn't make any sense that rsoultin says "but who else could rels be scum with?", for these reasons: 1) It's easily possible here, if marv is in fact town, that Rels is mafia with DP -- or at least it should be for them, since nothing in their posting implicates otherwise. 2) The posts (2) and (3) are their collective thoughts. If they thought Rels is somehow mafia over DP (which can't be seen from their posting) -- well the thread is there for expressing the thought, even without reasoning laid out for it. Again, if they thought that is the case -- there is no implication for it, so it sounds like bullshit. Therefore i find it impossible they are telling the truth here.
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I'm leaving work super soon BTW.
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On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote:So here's where we're at right now. We kind of think Damdred and Rayn are easy townreads right now. Damdred for being lighthearted and happy to interact. Rayn for not tunneling and actually attempting to interact with his reads. Kind of leaning town on GreY. Just don't think he'd go after Damdy and Rayn when everyone and their mom is townreading them. Especially if Marv is mafia, he'd actually have to line up mislynches and no one wants to lynch either of them right now. We don't think the post about Rayn being vocal was alignment indicative, and a bunch of things in his big post stuck out as townish. One thing we didn't like though was the marv post and trying to get him modkilled instead, but that would be an easy scum tactic that doesn't make much sense in combination with trying to push damdred/rayn. We think he's just wrong mostly. Marv is clearly scum at this point. ##Vote MarvellosityWhich leaves DP and Rels for the last scum. Some of what Rels has posted looks okay and some of it doesn't. There's a few instances where it seems like he's throwing suspicions on people without trying to figure them out like he did The way he approached DP and our slot in a way that seems more focused on burying rather than solving. An exception to that would be this post: Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 19:50 Rels wrote:On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote:
while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:
The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement. How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions. On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote:
The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however. On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda. On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote:
The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion. He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ? On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote:
First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling. You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ? Where it feels like he's actually trying to work with GM. Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts. Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 23:27 Rels wrote:
##Vote marv
Do stuff or die.
Otherwise here is my mind atm:
rayn
Damdred
grey
Arta/rsoul
marv
DP
About the reiterationOur concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread.
For DP, it feels like he's buddying a bunch of players and the GM scumread seems too easy and shallow. He also spent a lot more time on his townreads than his scumreads. There just doesn't seem to be much drive to find scum in him. It's also telling that we can't really say much about his filter besides a bunch of reasons for people to be town. TownDamdred Raynpelikoneet Leaning TownGreYMisT Leaning ScumRels DarthPunk MafiaMarvellosity
Okay, first off we admit that we have been playing this game very lackadaisically. We've been taking full advantage of being a hydra where we can work things out together. We also haven't been paying this game as much attention as it probably deserves.
That said, the above post was our reads before marv. Clearly if marv is town, as Lex thought, our two scumreads become Rels and DP. There were 5 votes on Rels when Lex checked the thread, 1 on DP and 1 on marv, so he didn't feel the need to post or change his vote while I was out. He was waiting for me to get back and we both didn't realize deadline was at 4 (our time) instead of 5.
As for my comment on Rels...he'd gone after so many people in the thread that it just seemed really unlikely he was scum with DP or GM, and we had strong townreads on Damdred and rayn. So for both of us a Rels lynch was likely to hit scum, though I wasn't assuming marv was town like Lex was. Thus we didn't care perhaps as much as we should have. There are reasons for that but we're not going to go into it.
Quite simply you have to ask yourselves why marv tries to get out of his lynch and why we don't take advantage of the Rels lynch. You could make the argument that we just assumed it would go through, and we're horrible scum players who both didn't follow thread and didn't keep track of the deadline when marv, who everyone knows doesn't like to play scum, is trying to get a mislynch.
And if you think that's likely, go ahead and lynch us. Then lynch Rels.
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On December 16 2015 04:17 RtaniSoul wrote:And if you think that's likely, go ahead and lynch us. Then lynch Rels.
OK let's do that.
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EPT
