EPTDark Tournament Mini Mafia - Page 59
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Spoiler because I don't like talking about town, this doesn't help find scum. + Show Spoiler + My play was too self-focused, too ego-focused. What I ended up doing was, if MoosyDoosy/NocturneMage is town, I created the easiest mislynch for mafia ever. When I realized that, I got really scared. It prevents my normal "sanity check" because I can't know if people who agree with my case actually agree with it or if they're just "along for the ride". Also, the one confirmed town player who commented on my case (Damdred, who is an incredible player) wasn't sold. My night kill analysis probably wasn't very good. The only things I should really take from the night kill is that I'm quite fallible, and that Damdred thought that MoosyDoosy is town. I do note that someone mentioned Damdred scumreading DoYouHas and Half the Sky, that's interesting because I specifically looked for those two and didn't see anything. Did I miss stuff? I also really messed up my thinking. I was thinking that I could sanity check NocturneMage for my read, because if he was scum I was thinking I could push him out of the game and he couldn't get the motivation to play. The Damdred night kill threw me off really badly and I let NocturneMage into the game, preventing that read from working. But for some reason I forgot that I backed off of him before he actually did anything, and applied this to townread him a little bit. Scumreading me for changing my mind is stupid. How does this help mafia/hurt town? The only way it does is if NocturneMage is mafia. So basically, I bussed MoosyDoosy that heavily from Day 1, when I know that MoosyDoosy loves playing mafia? When I hate playing mafia, I would take that opportunity away from someone who loves it? No, I'd tell him to bus me. Like, I get that this is self-meta and it's bad. But there is no mafia motivation for this play, however you look at it. Also, about activity, I've basically been playing mafia full time. I've been falling behind on classes, homework, studying. Something is going to need to break, and I really hope that it's my involvement in this game, because I simply can't play mafia this much and fulfill my responsibilities. Plus I don't seem to be helping that much, so there's no need for me to be that active. I think that The Shining is town because I can never scumread people who townread me. Big flaw. But I'm going with that for now because I feel behind on every single filter right now, so I'll start there. NocturneMage could very easily be bussing Half the Sky here because Half the Sky is sick. It could be worth it to bus in this case (both for NocturneMage to get towncredit and to relieve Half the Sky's responsibility for playing the game). I'm not saying that NocturneMage's push makes him mafia because of this, or that it's any more likely that he's mafia because of this, just that I don't think that a Half the Sky scum flip makes him look much better (relative to what you would think before the flip... I haven't quite decided what I think about that yet). I think I kind of just want to take a break for the evening and rest, I'm darn tired. If anyone has any questions, or wants to talk about anything, let me know, I can try to look stuff up and give thoughts. But otherwise I think I'll just rest. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I'm just going to go to sleep. Good night, all. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On December 04 2015 10:34 disformation wrote: Ah actually, upon looking at DYH again... Let me bring up Rels case again. Cause it got kinda lost in the forest. On December 04 2015 10:43 disformation wrote: My big problem with DYH: Look at his filter. Outside the case on HtS how many reads are there? + Show Spoiler + 0 At the EoD1 he says I am a town read of him, when the last mention of me is being in the "middleground-group". So the few reads are kinda magical and can come and go without explanation. And when this is pointed out, he flat out ignores it. On December 04 2015 10:51 disformation wrote: Too make my argument a bit more readable:
Wat? I have pointed this problem out, Rels has pointed this out, but nothing happens. On December 04 2015 10:56 disformation wrote: So DYH could have basically voted anyone D1... Also the decent posts, where he is looking at HtS, start N1... after NocturneMage got replaced in... His case is also posted after NM comes in and posts that piece on HtS very likely to be mafia... (Post#1)Rels Case: 1. Rels is wrong. The value in the information of a confirmed town through claim to town far exceeds the value of setup information to scum. (And this is even granting that scum don't know the setup, which we don't know.) Espousing this does not make me scum, it makes me right. 2. Rels is misrepresenting me and ignoring my actual read progression on Trfel. My disagreement with Trfel on Damdred and subsequent response to him asking "am I sane or not" is not a townread. My mindmeld post was written without regard to Damdred's weak townread on Trfel. My actual read progression: Suspicious -> Null -> Scum -> Town -> Unsure without review 3. I admit I was not an effective scumhunter day1. I had a feel for the game which led me to believe that there were scum in the middleground. I spent some time looking at playres I felt fit that description, but nothing really stuck out to me such that I wanted to push a lynch on any of them. The only thing I felt was a lack of content from LS. I didn't think it was enough of a reason to push him, so instead I asked for his reads on my mover and shaker group, Damdred, Palmar, Rels. The smart play for town if you do not have any good scumreads of your own at the end of the day is to sheep the scumreads of those you believe to be town, which is exactly what I did. And yes, Disfo gets lumped into my towngroup. That was my gut read from the earlier filter reading. Not particularly useful when I was searching for scum as I was choking on town/null reads and unable to find things I wanted to pursue. It was useful in deciding where to place my vote at the end of the day. (Post#2) 0 reads? Townread-Damdred Townread-Palmar Townread-Shining Scumread-Trfel Townread-Trfel Townread-Disfo For what is essentially a 1 page filter with the HtS stuff I get more solid reads in here than your average joe. Yeah, I sucked at getting scumreads but that is just a fact of my Day1. (Post#3) See response to post 1. (Post#4) It is quite the opposite of what you are saying here. There is virtually nobody I could have put my vote on by the EoD and not caught flak for it. Leaving yourself options is when you make a bunch of null reads or spread around suspicion on multiple targets so that you are justified no matter where your vote lands. I looked into HtS more carefully because of Kush flip. NM even brings up my post as the reason he first is suspecting her. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12971 Posts
Vote Count Half the Sky (3): NocturneMage, DoYouHas, Fecalfeast DoYouHas (1): disformation, Not Voting (7): Fidei86, LightningStrike, The Shining, Rels, Half The Sky, Palmar, Trfel Currently Half the Sky is set to be lynched. This Day ends at Saturday, Dec 05 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 23:00 GMT (+00:00). Lynch Voting is done in the voting thread (here). Do not PM me your vote. Voting is mandatory. You may not abstain. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On December 04 2015 08:01 Blazinghand wrote: Damdred the Tournament Attendee has been shot! WTF It doesn't make sense. Gotta go lunch, will think about it 'cause it bothering me very much. | ||
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
1. Alex is best placed to read Dani. In games he has obs'd, he has consistently been able to correctly read her. That includes games where she has been unwell/super busy. 2. Town Alex is not usually this impulsive or sure. In fact, I know that he has been seeking advice on how to try and get his scum-reads lynched. 3. Dani is unwell and he is best placed to be able to correctly gauge the impact of that on her play and also the correct level of in-game slack to apply. The conclusion I draw from this is that it is very likely at least one of Dani/Alex is Mafia. Either Alex is Mafia and trying to get town Dani out having not had the chance to NK her, or Alex is town with a correct scum read on Dani. There is a possibility he is bussing her to get cred, particularly in circumstances where she may not be able to keep playing the game and thought the bus would be better than having someone replace into her slot. Put another way, if Alex is town then he would NOT post something that sure unless he was absolutely convinced Dani is Mafia. In those circumstances, we should absolutely trust his read (especially as a few of us have been slightly scumming her). | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
I'm not really putting in the effort I should this game, so sorry about that. I'll make a decision on who I want to lynch tonight or tomorrow. | ||
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On December 04 2015 21:40 Fidei86 wrote: I'm only semi-joking. Like, this game takes a lot of time and just stopping in every 12 hrs like you've been doing recently and giving no content is annoying. It makes you near impossible to read and it makes it less likely anyone will listen to your reads. Are you insane? I have 4 pages of filter in two days with plenty of reads and progression in it. I'm nowhere near lurker level. That's plenty of activity to figure out my alignment on. The fact I only play at some particular times during the day has mostly to do with work and other real life obligations. I have no idea since when not constantly being in the thread has been a problem. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On December 04 2015 21:50 Palmar wrote: Also, if you can't figure out my alignment that's on you, not me. Town hero and eternal leader Damdred figured it out. Wow you actually do have four pages of filter. Okay. But I do disagree with you viz you "being towny" enough. It's actually not. When you get mislynched its almost always 50% on the idiots who lynched you and 50% on you for being scummy town. That's a really important thing that lots of people forget as town. | ||
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
Probably town: Rels, for effort (although I know he does it as mafia too, but who cares, he deserves at least to be not the mafia we're looking for). LS (EoD shennies) Shining (his entire reaction to my palmartunnel™ on day 1. Especially the part where he created an excuse to leave the thread and then didn't). Leaning town: disformation (mostly a leftover tone read from day 1. I've yet to read a post of his that feels forced or awkward). People who I have read some parts of, but not really made a judgement on alignment: Fidei (I liked his first post because he spotted exactly the same thing as I did with regards to shining. I often overvalue such mind-melds, but meh. I feel like I should just sort of give him a pass for today, but I'm not certain). People who I have ignored/Have little opinion on: DoYouHas (his filter on day 1 was bad, but I sort of started ignoring him after misreading one of his posts. I should probably have looked into him anyway) HtS (I remember thinking "that's unusually awkward, even for HtS" at some point, but other than that I have generally flat out ignored everything she says. Very worthy candidate to investigate for me) People I have not read at all The replacements People who I am slightly suspicious of Trfel (It's sort of a sheep from Damdred, but also his emotional outburst yesterday. He was really over the top about a few people not listening to his read on moosy). So yeah, I don't have a strong scumread right now. I have no "gotcha, this guy is mafia", but I have a basis to work upon. Given that hts and dyh are the people with votes on them, I'm going to focus on reading them and the cases for them being mafia. For those of you that haven't played with me before, I have a very annoying habit of ignoring people who are mafia (which is another good reason to look into dyh and hts). Basically the theory is that mafia people just post to fit in, whereas townies are posting a lot more entertaining/insane stuff. So I end up not reading boring mafia posts. My reads in general are sort of fluid, but I'll figure it out. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On December 04 2015 22:00 Fidei86 wrote: Wow you actually do have four pages of filter. Okay. But I do disagree with you viz you "being towny" enough. It's actually not. When you get mislynched its almost always 50% on the idiots who lynched you and 50% on you for being scummy town. That's a really important thing that lots of people forget as town. Dude... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10890802 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10936906 I'm literally the goddamn prophet of "if you get lynched it's your own damn fault". That ties very well into what I was saying earlier about why I should never be vigged. | ||
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On December 04 2015 22:01 Fidei86 wrote: Let's not do NK WIFOM again please. Damdred flipping town proves he was honest, but it does NOT prove he was correct. 100% town palmar based on damdred dead. You can't argue with science bitch. | ||
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On December 04 2015 22:05 Palmar wrote: Dude... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10890802 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10936906 I'm literally the goddamn prophet of "if you get lynched it's your own damn fault". That ties very well into what I was saying earlier about why I should never be vigged. Wow. Okay. Looks like I was preaching to the choir there. | ||
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