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On December 03 2015 05:36 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 05:22 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 05:15 disformation wrote:On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2015 08:37 Rels wrote:
Yo.
If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup.
Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do.
Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched.
Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION. First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument. With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup. Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right. Okay. Let me try. So you assume that the good play for town/boxeR is to not claim. Two people say the opposite. So Rels rushes to the help of town and presents a good argument why boxeR should not claim. So a) he is town or b) he wants the town cred. He analyzes the setup, which is possible as either alignment. hmmm... the op doesn't say whether mafia knows the setup or not... and you are right he seems pretty convinced that mafia does not know the setup. This part is kinda strange indeed... The parts about it feels too good and is he this good confuse me a bit though. Like what do they add to this argument, besides making it look like a fear read a lot? =p maybe I should go and read rels more in depth... Maybe this is just not a good argument at all. One more try. The key word is that Rels is rushing to the aid of town. Rushing, because speed is important. And his post is extremely knowledgeable, and is a really comprehensive explanation. I find it hard to believe that he got confirmation that scum didn't know the setup in time to make this post, for example. If Rels was around earlier, he should have been posting. Town wouldn't avoid posting like that. Basically, Rels took extra time to make sure his argument was completely explained and correct, when town wants to post as quickly as possible. This makes me wonder if the motivation behind the post is, instead of helping town, to make himself look better, which would mean that Rels is mafia. The argument falls apart if Rels is good enough to make this post as town without taking much extra time, which is what I was trying to get at. That seems really unlikely, but I can't completely rule it out. Hmm... did he need to wait for confirmation? Maybe he was reading the op and based on that formed an assumption? Though he sounds very convinced for an assumption... So yeah this is shady and probably good to keep in mind. The is he good enough or not part is kinda WIFOM though. Don't want to lynch him over MD solely for that. Oh, no, don't ever lynch anyone over MoosyDoosy 
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Damdred, have you read MoosyDoosy's filter recently?
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On December 03 2015 06:18 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 06:11 disformation wrote:On December 03 2015 06:09 The Shining wrote:
I'm here. Work is hectic and its rainy which makes it worse but I'll catch up as fast as I can. Just don't flame me for missing anything.
I do see a few votes on MD. Anyone defending him or pushing a diff lynch at all? nope. On December 03 2015 06:09 Damdred wrote:
I'm not so sure moosey is mafia.
I've given other reads
however I think that LS is mafia and I should be sheeped on this. Your timing is great. Was just like... "wait, LS is in this game..." I also remember HtS case on him being decent... can you elaborate further? So he's being bussed, is town or his team is one of the arms or non voters. Hm. Can't deny Moosy is prime d1 lynchbait tho, I just checked his filter. Looks like he did nothing after talkinng to me about my Fid read except ask who was pro/anti Rels and took a rest for what is now 21 hrs. Sigh. MoosyDoosy is basically guaranteed mafia.
He said he'd play Day 1. He's sort of playing Day 1, but he's not actually pushing anything. He's not being obnoxious, but he's not doing anything. Compare to last game as town, he was playing as obnoxiously as possible, but was still invested in solving the game, still had a push. The contrast is pretty large.
He hates being town, loves being scum. He was mad to roll town, as he said, but three minutes later he was happy and asking questions. Throughout his entire filter he's been very happy and content, no complaints about rolling town at all.
That's mafia.
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Like, this isn't a policy lynch at all.
MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's bad. MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's useless. MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's obnoxious.
MoosyDoosy is being lynched because his play has too many contradictions and has no possible town mindset behind it, while it fits perfectly with mafia motivation of contributing as little as possible, in this case relying on meta to avoid the Day 1 lynch.
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On December 03 2015 06:27 Palmar wrote:
This is 100% a policy lynch.
That being said, intentionally bad players should be policy lynched. I see no effort at all from moosy trying to actually help this game. Maybe it's a policy lynch for you, but I think I actually know what I'm doing.
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On December 03 2015 06:30 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 06:28 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 06:27 Palmar wrote:
This is 100% a policy lynch.
That being said, intentionally bad players should be policy lynched. I see no effort at all from moosy trying to actually help this game. Maybe it's a policy lynch for you, but I think I actually know what I'm doing. Have you played with Moosy before? Yes, several times.
I've explained why MoosyDoosy's play is mafia in this game, regardless of meta. It's really solid.
Meta actually helps to show why MoosyDoosy is mafia in this case. As town, even while being as obnoxious as possible, he still shows an interest in solving the game. You can see it through the "I'm trying not to do anything". For example, last game, he kept pushing FarahBlackwing really confidently, despite martyring as a power role.
Like, I'm not going to dig up a bunch of past games or pull up a ton of posts. If you read it, you should see for yourself. I've told you what to look for. It's not something I can make any clearer.
This is the type of read I've had by far the most success with. Mindset and mafia motivation. When applied correctly, it's basically never wrong. The best part is that it's easy to apply correctly. The downside is that it's really hard to explain.
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On December 03 2015 06:32 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 06:23 Trfel wrote:
Like, this isn't a policy lynch at all.
MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's bad. MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's useless. MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's obnoxious.
MoosyDoosy is being lynched because his play has too many contradictions and has no possible town mindset behind it, while it fits perfectly with mafia motivation of contributing as little as possible, in this case relying on meta to avoid the Day 1 lynch. Explain the bolded, I couldn't find any contradictions in it aside from the grumpy/happy. Why are you saying there are too many? Also when he says he will play, and sort of pretends to play, but isn't actually playing the game/isn't actually invested in the game.
Two major contradictions like that in a short filter is pretty telling. These aren't logic contradictions or read changes, mindset contradictions are much more powerful.
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I give up. Don't even know what I can do about this.
Marvellosity told me what I needed to do to improve my mafia play, I tried it this game, with no results.
Maybe my playstyle is just too different from everyone else's so that I can't actually play mafia any more. Maybe I just need to sheep people all the time like I used to.
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Palmar, take a look at LightningStrike, but I'm not sure that I would trust Damdred.
If you avoid lynching MoosyDoosy because Damdred said so, I'll be extremely displeased.
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On December 03 2015 06:41 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 06:29 Palmar wrote:On December 01 2015 12:22 MoosyDoosy wrote:I’ll be honest and say I love these “Moosy is useless but it’s NAI!” “Moosy is a weird af player, can’t read him now!”  My name must spread far and wide. Like taking pride in this shit is basically the hallmark of a person too dumb to really play mafia. To be totally honest: I totally do not like MoosyDoosy. Last game, after nearly lynching himself as the martyr D1 he proceeded to shoot a nullread (who was town) over his two scum reads (who where also both town), cause he was convinced he would be able to lynch his both scum reads anyway. I was one of those two scum reads, so I am a bit biased. To be fair my D1 last game was super horrible. So I am probably at least somewhat biased against MoosyDoosy. Meanwhile: upgrading Damdred's town lean to a town read. Give me a few mins to try and forget my dislike of MoosyDoosy to see, which lynch is think is better, since I a) nearly forgot LS was in this game (usually a bad sign) and b) the points Damdred has on him look pretty valid. MoosyDoosy was fricking obvious town last game.
Like, really really obvious.
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On December 03 2015 06:41 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 06:39 Trfel wrote:
I give up. Don't even know what I can do about this.
Marvellosity told me what I needed to do to improve my mafia play, I tried it this game, with no results.
Maybe my playstyle is just too different from everyone else's so that I can't actually play mafia any more. Maybe I just need to sheep people all the time like I used to. No you need to just say things that make sense to the people you're talking to. Half the skill in mafia is to recognize your crowd and appeal to it. Being right and unable to convince people you are makes you just as terrible as someone who is wrong all the time. For the record, I tried my best.
I realize that that doesn't change anything, but I did.
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On December 03 2015 06:54 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 07:32 LightningStrike wrote:Back from class after some relaxation. On December 02 2015 07:18 Rels wrote:
LS: if you had to name a team of 3 mafias, who would that be and why ? Idk yet this game is getting a little hard. I wish that Onegu and Kush actually do stuff so I can flesh them out in terms of alignment. Otherwise after considering that he did his thing on me as a trap(if I reading this correctly) Tfrel moved to null for now but still it was kind of a weird thing to do for him. Idk why people having trouble with DYS? I see him more of a newbie player than a veteran player honestly so(shrugs). So nothing yet for a team. Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:16 LightningStrike wrote:On December 03 2015 03:13 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 03:06 LightningStrike wrote:On December 03 2015 03:04 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 03:01 LightningStrike wrote:On December 03 2015 02:58 Trfel wrote:On December 02 2015 23:07 Half the Sky wrote:
Alright, I just woke up, and I am not feeling any better. I'm headed to a doctor's appointment in an hour, but I am hoping to get back in thread barring anything serious.
I fully realise I have a shittonne to catch up on - if anyone has any questions for me, or anything specific they want me to weigh on, please prompt me and I'll do so when I return. First of all, really sorry that you aren't feeling well. Hope you can recover soon. Why did you vote for DoYouHas instead of kushm4sta? Why didn't you include LightningStrike in the lynch list? Now that he's (at least mostly, I think?) answered your questions, what do you think about him? Why did your read on me (Trfel) change? read her filter if you want to see her progression on me + Show Spoiler + And where did you get that conclusion from? On December 02 2015 04:38 Half the Sky wrote:On December 02 2015 04:24 LightningStrike wrote:Okay I here now and Tfrel I did answer HTS just not directly quoted. On December 02 2015 04:15 Half the Sky wrote:
Looking at 346/349 -
LS, I'm not referring to meta. Let's make sure I'm not misunderstanding you here.
I'm not talking about Palmar's tone in general. I'm talking about his case. If you read the context differently, then tell me how you interpreted that.
You are saying that he's town because his tone is serious and from 349 it's based on meta. Okay fine, but regardless of meta, why would Palmar's case NOT be serious? What I'm trying to say here is that you are townreading him for a poor reason. I didn't say it wasn't serious? Anyways the way he argued Shining like I said had a serious tone plus like said he did a very similar thing to me in Metal Mini when I was fighting him and felt frustrated with him. It took me a bit of arguing to get him to townread me in that game because I was still a newbie lol.... So it a little both but more towards personal experience with him. Argh, no. I am saying that you said his tone is serious. In any case, you want to say you are giving a personal read towards him. Alright, I still think this is a bad read because like I said before Palmar really can't be done off one read, but now that I've fleshed it out I don't think you are mafia for this. Still need to read the rest of your filter in conjunction with Trfel/Damdred when I return though. Yeah.... "I don't think you are mafia for this" means that Half the Sky is not scum reading you for one specific thing in your filter. As in, she could be scum reading you for the entire rest of your filter. And that's not a townread on that one thing either. Does anyone know if LightningStrike is generally this self-conscious as town with regards to other people's townreads on him? To make a big jump like this and try to assume everything is a townread? Because this is making me doubt my earlier town lean on him. It's implied I thought O_o(At least how I read it and I hope she gets better soon honestly) Also for note you played a shit ton of games with me when I'm town and I surprised you kinda forgot how I play  This is the question I want to ask folks - why is he null reading Trfel based on the bolded? Uh, the second post you quoted came after the first. Not sure what you're getting at.
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On December 03 2015 07:00 Palmar wrote:
Btw, the people who are pushing lynches (damdred -> LS, Trfel -> MD and Shining -> Trfel??). Can you all summarize your points in a short case. It makes it so much easier for everyone involved if people actually build cases.
I'd be building one if I had one (I tried to summarize my concerns about shining last night). I just don't quite know what I want to do right now.
I've done so, perhaps it was too simple for you to consider it a case.
You didn't agree, and I don't think that I can change your mind, so I won't try.
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On December 03 2015 07:03 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 07:02 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 07:00 Palmar wrote:
Btw, the people who are pushing lynches (damdred -> LS, Trfel -> MD and Shining -> Trfel??). Can you all summarize your points in a short case. It makes it so much easier for everyone involved if people actually build cases.
I'd be building one if I had one (I tried to summarize my concerns about shining last night). I just don't quite know what I want to do right now.
I've done so, perhaps it was too simple for you to consider it a case. You didn't agree, and I don't think that I can change your mind, so I won't try. Do you agree with Damdred on LS? No, I don't.
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On December 03 2015 07:04 Palmar wrote:
Do people like... ever... build good cases anymore? Palmar, you're not doing anything yourself, so you're going to have to stop this.
Remember in Mini Mafia Down Under 2? We had a really good case and push against Alakaslam and you ruined it for a policy lynch.
I realize that you're extremely talented and one of the best players on the site, but it's still possible that once in a while, someone else knows something that you don't (and just because they can't explain it well doesn't invalidate this). You don't need to attack me as well.
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On December 03 2015 07:14 LightningStrike wrote:
Okay DAMDRED IS A FUCKING IDIOT WHY FORGOT TO READ I ME BEEN BUT HE READ ME CORRECTLY ALL BUT THE TIME HE BEEN MAFIA.............
Dropping my vote on MD IDK HOME BUT I VT I DON'T TO DIE NOW.
##Vote:MooseyDoosey You think that Damdred is town?
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On December 03 2015 07:16 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 07:15 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 07:14 LightningStrike wrote:
Okay DAMDRED IS A FUCKING IDIOT WHY FORGOT TO READ I ME BEEN BUT HE READ ME CORRECTLY ALL BUT THE TIME HE BEEN MAFIA.............
Dropping my vote on MD IDK HOME BUT I VT I DON'T TO DIE NOW.
##Vote:MooseyDoosey You think that Damdred is town? Ummmmmmmmmmmm. If I read that correctly, I think he's saying the only time Damdreds ever read him wrong is as scum. That's what I thought too, but he also called Damdred an idiot and voted for MoosyDoosy. So I'm not sure.
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On December 03 2015 07:19 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2015 08:37 Rels wrote:
Yo.
If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup.
Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do.
Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched.
Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION. First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument. With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup. Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right. My god. I can't rebute an accusation that finishes by "if Rels is town doing that, then he's super good". I didn't plan to post anything than "yo all good night" when Damdred posted about boxer. Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:
Side note, I remember that Half the Sky mentioned that she'd only played with kushm4sta before in Carol of the Bells. Which is wrong, since we all played in I believe Student Mafia IV (one of the Student Mafia games, before the Newbie Student mafias), and kushm4sta was in that game and actually sort of played. He was mafia, so I'm surprised that Half the Sky forgot that.
But I just remembered that kushm4sta actually was in Carol of the Bells. If you have any doubt that kushm4sta is capable of playing this lazily as town, look at his play from Carol of the Bells.
He had (arguably) the most important town power role in the game. A mafia player baited the role to claim, and the entire thread yelled at how stupid that request was. Didn't matter, kushm4sta didn't care and just claimed his role and died.
In retrospect, it was pretty darn hilarious, but at the time it was infuriating. What did she say exactly ? I wasn't scumreading Half the Sky, I was being tangential. And I was wrong, anyway
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On December 03 2015 07:20 The Shining wrote:
I'm having trouble ever remembering a time LS has reacted that way to being scummed/voted, and most of the times we've played together he was town. Except that one time he was scum. But he didn't react this way, either. Can't tell if it's an attempt to get that "genuine anger townread" that's been floating around games lately. That reaction seems very similar to what I would expect from LightningStrike as town. Why do you think otherwise?
I remember one game we played not too long ago where every time someone suspected him he accused them of being on crack.
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On December 03 2015 07:25 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 07:22 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 07:20 The Shining wrote:
I'm having trouble ever remembering a time LS has reacted that way to being scummed/voted, and most of the times we've played together he was town. Except that one time he was scum. But he didn't react this way, either. Can't tell if it's an attempt to get that "genuine anger townread" that's been floating around games lately. That reaction seems very similar to what I would expect from LightningStrike as town. Why do you think otherwise? I remember one game we played not too long ago where every time someone suspected him he accused them of being on crack. Okay that's just not true Trfel. I'm getting cold feet because LS usually fights his corner on somewhat sensible grounds. I've never seen a response like that before. Hmm. Does accusing someone of being on crack count as fighting people on somewhat sensible grounds?
If so, then I disagree. If not, I will the past game.
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EPT
