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On December 03 2015 02:38 kushm4sta wrote:
Just skimmed htf. Scumsville. Looks like she is coming up with fake arguments or talking about stuff that's not alignment indicative. Doubt tget people would be willing to lynch tho I would consider Half the Sky potentially lynchable here.
What are some specific instances of the things you mentioned?
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Rels:
When you provided the list of games that DoYouHas has played... did you read his filter from the games, or look into the games in any way?
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On December 02 2015 23:07 Half the Sky wrote:
Alright, I just woke up, and I am not feeling any better. I'm headed to a doctor's appointment in an hour, but I am hoping to get back in thread barring anything serious.
I fully realise I have a shittonne to catch up on - if anyone has any questions for me, or anything specific they want me to weigh on, please prompt me and I'll do so when I return. First of all, really sorry that you aren't feeling well. Hope you can recover soon.
Why did you vote for DoYouHas instead of kushm4sta?
Why didn't you include LightningStrike in the lynch list? Now that he's (at least mostly, I think?) answered your questions, what do you think about him?
Why did your read on me (Trfel) change?
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On December 03 2015 03:01 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 02:58 Trfel wrote:On December 02 2015 23:07 Half the Sky wrote:
Alright, I just woke up, and I am not feeling any better. I'm headed to a doctor's appointment in an hour, but I am hoping to get back in thread barring anything serious.
I fully realise I have a shittonne to catch up on - if anyone has any questions for me, or anything specific they want me to weigh on, please prompt me and I'll do so when I return. First of all, really sorry that you aren't feeling well. Hope you can recover soon. Why did you vote for DoYouHas instead of kushm4sta? Why didn't you include LightningStrike in the lynch list? Now that he's (at least mostly, I think?) answered your questions, what do you think about him? Why did your read on me (Trfel) change? read her filter if you want to see her progression on me  + Show Spoiler + And where did you get that conclusion from?
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I think that DoYouHas is a really awful lynch for today.On December 02 2015 14:14 DoYouHas wrote:
Well reading the filters of my middleground group (Fid, HtS, LS, disfo) was significantly less productive than I had hoped.
Gnight folks
@LS - I would like to hear your feelings towards Palmar, Damdred, and Rels. First, assuming that if DoYouHas is scum, he is playing to survive and is not giving up.
This isn't a post that scum would make. Scum would need to come up with an argument here, some sort of post or push on someone. The absolute worst thing for survival is to do nothing. But doing nothing is likely to come from town who can't conclusively find scum, especially if he is holding himself to only using strong reads, as he said earlier.
Looking at DoYouHas' posts about 18 hours ago, I don't really think that those posts come from scum who is giving up. It's possible, but less likely I think.
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On December 03 2015 03:06 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:04 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 03:01 LightningStrike wrote:On December 03 2015 02:58 Trfel wrote:On December 02 2015 23:07 Half the Sky wrote:
Alright, I just woke up, and I am not feeling any better. I'm headed to a doctor's appointment in an hour, but I am hoping to get back in thread barring anything serious.
I fully realise I have a shittonne to catch up on - if anyone has any questions for me, or anything specific they want me to weigh on, please prompt me and I'll do so when I return. First of all, really sorry that you aren't feeling well. Hope you can recover soon. Why did you vote for DoYouHas instead of kushm4sta? Why didn't you include LightningStrike in the lynch list? Now that he's (at least mostly, I think?) answered your questions, what do you think about him? Why did your read on me (Trfel) change? read her filter if you want to see her progression on me + Show Spoiler + And where did you get that conclusion from? Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 04:38 Half the Sky wrote:On December 02 2015 04:24 LightningStrike wrote:Okay I here now and Tfrel I did answer HTS just not directly quoted. On December 02 2015 04:15 Half the Sky wrote:
Looking at 346/349 -
LS, I'm not referring to meta. Let's make sure I'm not misunderstanding you here.
I'm not talking about Palmar's tone in general. I'm talking about his case. If you read the context differently, then tell me how you interpreted that.
You are saying that he's town because his tone is serious and from 349 it's based on meta. Okay fine, but regardless of meta, why would Palmar's case NOT be serious? What I'm trying to say here is that you are townreading him for a poor reason. I didn't say it wasn't serious? Anyways the way he argued Shining like I said had a serious tone plus like said he did a very similar thing to me in Metal Mini when I was fighting him and felt frustrated with him. It took me a bit of arguing to get him to townread me in that game because I was still a newbie lol.... So it a little both but more towards personal experience with him. Argh, no. I am saying that you said his tone is serious. In any case, you want to say you are giving a personal read towards him. Alright, I still think this is a bad read because like I said before Palmar really can't be done off one read, but now that I've fleshed it out I don't think you are mafia for this. Still need to read the rest of your filter in conjunction with Trfel/Damdred when I return though. Yeah....
"I don't think you are mafia for this" means that Half the Sky is not scum reading you for one specific thing in your filter. As in, she could be scum reading you for the entire rest of your filter. And that's not a townread on that one thing either.
Does anyone know if LightningStrike is generally this self-conscious as town with regards to other people's townreads on him? To make a big jump like this and try to assume everything is a townread?
Because this is making me doubt my earlier town lean on him.
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I'm going to eat lunch, I'll get to Rels and Fidei86 after. Fidei86 is probably an okay lynch, but I need to read his filter first.
Putting off reading Damdred until he answers my question, it would help me to read him greatly.
Otherwise, I could lynch MoosyDoosy today.
I don't want to lynch Onegu today for stupid reasons.
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On December 03 2015 03:15 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:10 Trfel wrote:I think that DoYouHas is a really awful lynch for today. On December 02 2015 14:14 DoYouHas wrote:
Well reading the filters of my middleground group (Fid, HtS, LS, disfo) was significantly less productive than I had hoped.
Gnight folks
@LS - I would like to hear your feelings towards Palmar, Damdred, and Rels. First, assuming that if DoYouHas is scum, he is playing to survive and is not giving up. This isn't a post that scum would make. Scum would need to come up with an argument here, some sort of post or push on someone. The absolute worst thing for survival is to do nothing. But doing nothing is likely to come from town who can't conclusively find scum, especially if he is holding himself to only using strong reads, as he said earlier. Looking at DoYouHas' posts about 18 hours ago, I don't really think that those posts come from scum who is giving up. It's possible, but less likely I think. Hm? I have seen a bunch of scum giving up early D1 to not give information/out of frustration. scott did this one game (I think it was NSM10), Sulfurus did this in NSM13. Breshke just straight up vanished D2 in NSM17. Oh, it happens a ton.
I just don't feel that DoYouHas' series of posts is that of scum who is giving up. Do you disagree?
Assuming that those posts are not from scum giving up, then that means that if he is scum, something changed in those ~5 hours that led him to give up. I'm going to say there's basically no way that he made that post for a WIFOM play, that's just so unlikely that I refuse to consider it as a possibility.
I don't think that DoYouHas is 100% town, but he's probably town, and almost definitely a bad lynch for today. Do you disagree with anything? Am I missing something?
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Voting for myself to stop the obnoxious voting reminders.
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On December 03 2015 03:27 Fidei86 wrote:
16/26.
The only reason not to policy lynch Onegu is that he will almost certainly be replaced for inactivity. I'm probably going to put my vote on Moosy once i finish my run through. He has been useless and I can't stand people who put keeping their own meta pure ahead of winning the f***ing game. That's one reason, I suppose, though I hate that reason.
Here's the second reason. Warning in advance, it's horrible and will probably make you want to tear your hair out. Actually, I'll put it in spoiler because it's too painful.
+ Show Spoiler +Onegu really likes playing scum, and will often complain when he rolls town. His only post this game feels very dry and uninspired, which to me suggests that he is town. Also, this is really bad, but were he scum he might want to come back and post more, however he'd probably want to do that as town too, so this second point most likely is useless.
Note that this isn't a townread, this is just an "I don't want to lynch him".
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On December 03 2015 03:35 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:10 Trfel wrote:I think that DoYouHas is a really awful lynch for today. On December 02 2015 14:14 DoYouHas wrote:
Well reading the filters of my middleground group (Fid, HtS, LS, disfo) was significantly less productive than I had hoped.
Gnight folks
@LS - I would like to hear your feelings towards Palmar, Damdred, and Rels. First, assuming that if DoYouHas is scum, he is playing to survive and is not giving up. This isn't a post that scum would make. Scum would need to come up with an argument here, some sort of post or push on someone. The absolute worst thing for survival is to do nothing. But doing nothing is likely to come from town who can't conclusively find scum, especially if he is holding himself to only using strong reads, as he said earlier. Looking at DoYouHas' posts about 18 hours ago, I don't really think that those posts come from scum who is giving up. It's possible, but less likely I think. I had the opposite feeling. It reminded me of my feeling when playing scum; like I say to myself "OK I need to filter dive X and Y and make some analysis", then it's haaaaaard to do because it's hard to play scum, so sometimes I give up. I can see scum!DYH imagining "ok I need to filter dive those 4 players", reading quickly their filters, and giving up. I guess I can sort of see your point, however I think it's really easy to take a filter and throw out a random conclusion.
Also, disformation's post is really brilliant. I hadn't thought of this.On December 03 2015 03:23 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:20 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 03:15 disformation wrote:On December 03 2015 03:10 Trfel wrote:I think that DoYouHas is a really awful lynch for today. On December 02 2015 14:14 DoYouHas wrote:
Well reading the filters of my middleground group (Fid, HtS, LS, disfo) was significantly less productive than I had hoped.
Gnight folks
@LS - I would like to hear your feelings towards Palmar, Damdred, and Rels. First, assuming that if DoYouHas is scum, he is playing to survive and is not giving up. This isn't a post that scum would make. Scum would need to come up with an argument here, some sort of post or push on someone. The absolute worst thing for survival is to do nothing. But doing nothing is likely to come from town who can't conclusively find scum, especially if he is holding himself to only using strong reads, as he said earlier. Looking at DoYouHas' posts about 18 hours ago, I don't really think that those posts come from scum who is giving up. It's possible, but less likely I think. Hm? I have seen a bunch of scum giving up early D1 to not give information/out of frustration. scott did this one game (I think it was NSM10), Sulfurus did this in NSM13. Breshke just straight up vanished D2 in NSM17. Oh, it happens a ton. I just don't feel that DoYouHas' series of posts is that of scum who is giving up. Do you disagree? Assuming that those posts are not from scum giving up, then that means that if he is scum, something changed in those ~5 hours that led him to give up. I'm going to say there's basically no way that he made that post for a WIFOM play, that's just so unlikely that I refuse to consider it as a possibility. I don't think that DoYouHas is 100% town, but he's probably town, and almost definitely a bad lynch for today. Do you disagree with anything? Am I missing something? Hm. Yes, that last post is a bit strange from the perspective. I guess scum would just not post any more at that point and just GTFO... boy this game is getting hard already and it is only D1. xD If it's like you say, he would have just vanished instead of making that post. Five hours later is a long time, that's not a result of quickly skimming filters.
It's possible that he is mafia here and gave up and then decided to make that post much later. It's just much, much more likely that he's town and really just ended up with no strong [scum] conclusions. Either way, I don't think he's a good lynch.
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Ugh, I need to actually get lunch, but here's my thing on MoosyDoosy really quick.
When he checked his role PM, he said he was town, and he got really frustrated. Then three minutes later, he seemed quite happy. Throughout his filter, he seems really happy and there's no hint of frustration at all. This doesn't match.
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I was thinking about it over lunch. MoosyDoosy is nearly guaranteed scum.
There's everything you could ask for except for baby seals.
Voting for MoosyDoosy. You should, too.
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LOL at Fidei86 giving two different reads of Damdred XD
Kind of suggests that he is town, since the reads aren't exactly the same in the small points but do match in the big picture. And that he's not editing his posts. But mostly it's just funny.
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Wait, Fidei86, weren't you the person who said you wanted to read Rels as town because you like him as a person?
How does that come from the same person who is scared of Half the Sky being mafia, I would assume that you want her to be town as well?
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On December 01 2015 08:37 Rels wrote:
Yo.
If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup.
Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do.
Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched.
Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION.
First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument.
With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup.
Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right.
Side note, I remember that Half the Sky mentioned that she'd only played with kushm4sta before in Carol of the Bells. Which is wrong, since we all played in I believe Student Mafia IV (one of the Student Mafia games, before the Newbie Student mafias), and kushm4sta was in that game and actually sort of played. He was mafia, so I'm surprised that Half the Sky forgot that.
But I just remembered that kushm4sta actually was in Carol of the Bells. If you have any doubt that kushm4sta is capable of playing this lazily as town, look at his play from Carol of the Bells.
He had (arguably) the most important town power role in the game. A mafia player baited the role to claim, and the entire thread yelled at how stupid that request was. Didn't matter, kushm4sta didn't care and just claimed his role and died.
In retrospect, it was pretty darn hilarious, but at the time it was infuriating.
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On December 03 2015 04:47 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2015 08:37 Rels wrote:
Yo.
If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup.
Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do.
Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched.
Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION. First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument. With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup. Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right.
Side note, I remember that Half the Sky mentioned that she'd only played with kushm4sta before in Carol of the Bells. Which is wrong, since we all played in I believe Student Mafia IV (one of the Student Mafia games, before the Newbie Student mafias), and kushm4sta was in that game and actually sort of played. He was mafia, so I'm surprised that Half the Sky forgot that. But I just remembered that kushm4sta actually was in Carol of the Bells. If you have any doubt that kushm4sta is capable of playing this lazily as town, look at his play from Carol of the Bells. He had (arguably) the most important town power role in the game. A mafia player baited the role to claim, and the entire thread yelled at how stupid that request was. Didn't matter, kushm4sta didn't care and just claimed his role and died. In retrospect, it was pretty darn hilarious, but at the time it was infuriating. Got noms. @the Rels part: you know that this is a fear read, right?^^ Meh. I don't like MoosyDoosy either. Nearly forgot about his flurry of one liner posts and then vanishing last night... *sigh* MoosyDoosy is mafia and you should vote him.
"Fear read" is a stupid phrase (the only important thing it hints at is adding uncertainty/keeping options open, something like that, but it's much better to just say that and be specific). And this isn't a fear read, anyway. To me, Rels' post doesn't sound like it comes from town, and I described why. I'm not saying that Rels' play is towny, but he's capable of it as mafia so I'm scared of him. I'm saying that I don't think that this post comes from town and it's much easier to come from scum.
Not making any conclusions yet but I'd like to see what people think about this post.
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On December 03 2015 04:50 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:
Side note, I remember that Half the Sky mentioned that she'd only played with kushm4sta before in Carol of the Bells. Which is wrong, since we all played in I believe Student Mafia IV (one of the Student Mafia games, before the Newbie Student mafias), and kushm4sta was in that game and actually sort of played. He was mafia, so I'm surprised that Half the Sky forgot that.
But I just remembered that kushm4sta actually was in Carol of the Bells. If you have any doubt that kushm4sta is capable of playing this lazily as town, look at his play from Carol of the Bells.
He had (arguably) the most important town power role in the game. A mafia player baited the role to claim, and the entire thread yelled at how stupid that request was. Didn't matter, kushm4sta didn't care and just claimed his role and died.
In retrospect, it was pretty darn hilarious, but at the time it was infuriating. No I did not forget that. I know I cited both games. And kush wasn't mafia in the Student game. No way. I remember the lynch trains bouncing between both of us and both of us were town and I had modconfirmed myself because I posted after the bloody deadline. Eh, wow. My memory really is awful.
My bad, sorry about that.
(cries in a corner)
To answer your questions:
- My early post to LightningStrike was a reaction test. That argument was an extremely stupid reason to scumread ANYONE. I don't scumread people for not posting less than an hour into the game. You don't seem to believe this for whatever reason, I don't have anything more to add.
- I wasn't commenting on DoYouHas' lack of activity, but rather that he was fairly active early on and then vanished as soon as he got a townread from Damdred. That seemed like mafia motivation (play early and get townread, then get a more vocal player to townread you, and match their views and let them do the yelling so you can sit back and watch), and then his play transitioned into a single-post update much later. However, his later play suggests that it's more likely that he's just a low post count player. And I think he's more likely town for reasons previously mentioned.
- However, scum does NOT know the setup. I checked the OP, and I'm sure of it.
I believe that's everything, if I missed something please ask.
Half the Sky, MoosyDoosy is mafia and needs to be lynched. Trust me.
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On December 03 2015 05:15 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2015 08:37 Rels wrote:
Yo.
If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup.
Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do.
Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched.
Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION. First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument. With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup. Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right. Okay. Let me try. So you assume that the good play for town/boxeR is to not claim. Two people say the opposite. So Rels rushes to the help of town and presents a good argument why boxeR should not claim. So a) he is town or b) he wants the town cred. He analyzes the setup, which is possible as either alignment. hmmm... the op doesn't say whether mafia knows the setup or not... and you are right he seems pretty convinced that mafia does not know the setup. This part is kinda strange indeed... The parts about it feels too good and is he this good confuse me a bit though. Like what do they add to this argument, besides making it look like a fear read a lot? =p maybe I should go and read rels more in depth... Maybe this is just not a good argument at all. One more try.
The key word is that Rels is rushing to the aid of town. Rushing, because speed is important. And his post is extremely knowledgeable, and is a really comprehensive explanation. I find it hard to believe that he got confirmation that scum didn't know the setup in time to make this post, for example.
If Rels was around earlier, he should have been posting. Town wouldn't avoid posting like that.
Basically, Rels took extra time to make sure his argument was completely explained and correct, when town wants to post as quickly as possible. This makes me wonder if the motivation behind the post is, instead of helping town, to make himself look better, which would mean that Rels is mafia.
The argument falls apart if Rels is good enough to make this post as town without taking much extra time, which is what I was trying to get at. That seems really unlikely, but I can't completely rule it out.
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On December 03 2015 05:27 Half the Sky wrote:
Trfel, are you metareading kush town based on meta (laziness in Carol) and if so realising you were wrong on his game in student 4 (he was actually town in that game, but not lurky as Carol obv) does that change your read on him? Or were there other things you'd looked at that I missed?
I'm not making a read on kushm4sta.
I'm saying that lynching him for laziness alone is really stupid, since MoosyDoosy is obviously scum and should be lynched instead.
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EPT
