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All right. Listen. You do not genuinely discuss your vote before you vote, you do so after. Mafia does not have a QT, they cannot communicate. Part of the game- and part of the play as town- is to keep mafia in the dark as to what the voting is going to be. There are voting trends that can be gained and analyzed if this is kept as it is. I was hoping people would do this.
So please, next time, do not do this. Discuss who you think is mafia during all phases. We discuss our votes after voting is revealed.
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Like I understand that pressuring me to read the thread is superobvious from either alignment, but I've had a long day and a long week ahead of me, so no. I'm not going to read shit right now. I also don't want people to hide behind walls of posts and filters. Everyone can keep it short and simple: why did you vote?
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So please, just make my job easier. I'll see what comes up tomorrow. 5 more minutes for any questions or whatever.
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On November 04 2015 09:11 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 09:09 Superbia wrote:
All right. Listen. You do not genuinely discuss your vote before you vote, you do so after. Mafia does not have a QT, they cannot communicate. Part of the game- and part of the play as town- is to keep mafia in the dark as to what the voting is going to be. There are voting trends that can be gained and analyzed if this is kept as it is. I was hoping people would do this.
So please, next time, do not do this. Discuss who you think is mafia during all phases. We discuss our votes after voting is revealed. Odd that you didn't bother to actually look. There is very little explanation for him voting pass on a rayn group.
... I don't really have any time or focus to read through filters right now. So yeah. If he didn't say anything about his vote pre-voteflip, excellent. Good.
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All right. I'm off for now.
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Kita read your own filter with me please. You make two posts on me basically pushing scum on me and then conclude I'm leaning town in your list post. How the fuck does this happen?
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Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me.
Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment.
On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote:OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline. 1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote:
So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before. 2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote:
Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum? Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia. 3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarishShow nested quote +On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote:
So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that? ConclusionThat is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative.
You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos.
This answer:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 03 2015 06:35 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote:Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it. This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me): On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance. ...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push. Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far. I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him. Let's break this apart into two pieces: 1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this. 2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense? I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later. I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it.
Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment.
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Artanis may be town if his self-proclaimed meta (lots of games back where he mis-lynched me) of "fluid reads" is correct.
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On November 05 2015 00:36 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote:Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me. Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment. On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote:OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline. 1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote:
I instantly retract my townread. On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote:
So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before. 2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote:
Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum? On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia. 3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarishOn November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote:
So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that? ConclusionThat is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative. You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos. This answer: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2015 06:35 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote:Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it. This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me): On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance. ...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push. Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far. I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him. Let's break this apart into two pieces: 1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this. 2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense? I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later. I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it. Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment. I have nothing to add to what I wrote above. You pushed Xatalos on something illogical, then you turned your read around. This is scum indicative and no amount of explanation will change that. Now that is not strong, so I'm waiting to see what you'll do.
Going to call you scum for the rest of the game probably. Unless something drastically changes.
The logic makes no sense.
Your push on me implies:
- Xat is town (likely at this point- not for you at that point in time)
- I am scum (nope).
- My agenda behind the push on Xat was to put scum on town-Xat as scum. Probably to divert attention.
Here's where the problems are:
- You have failed to address my explanation post, even though strong town players have backed up my reasoning (HtS and rayn, do you believe they are both scum?).
- I flipped on Xat rather quickly, which fucks over the agenda you proposed.
- You have never explained why it is scum-indicative, only in the case where Xat is strictly town, and I am strictly scum, which is back-wards reasoning. This indicates an agenda (i.e. pushing town-me).
And this is the most glaring one I just thought of:
- In your world, you have failed to argue that I (scum-Superbia) am now going after you (town-Rels). Even though you should 100% know your own alignment (and it should be town, right?), and it would completely support your initial assertion.
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And with strong town players, I meant when they are town, their logic is sound. It doesn't mean they are town in this game. I'm still a little scared of both of their scum-games (more scared of HtS' scum-game than rayn's), even though they are somewhere in my town circle.
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On November 05 2015 00:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote:Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me. Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment. On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote:OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline. 1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote:
I instantly retract my townread. On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote:
So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before. 2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote:
Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum? On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia. 3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarishOn November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote:
So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that? ConclusionThat is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative. You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos. This answer: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2015 06:35 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote:Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it. This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me): On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance. ...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push. Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far. I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him. Let's break this apart into two pieces: 1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this. 2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense? I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later. I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it. Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment. I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is. At the start of it you mention how you want Rels to walk you through his argument, but then you proceed to trash him and explain your scumread moreso than that you seem to be looking for an explanation. Do you have any questions for him in specific?
Read the post the answer quotes. There are questions left unanswered, and the answer is very "uncaring". If that makes sense. I put effort into my post, and the effort in the answer is just, it doesn't fucking tell me anything new.
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Nvm about being scared on rayn. This fucking line just solidifies him as town:
On November 03 2015 18:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Anyways, i believe we have 1 mafia in ShoCkeyy, and the rest 2 in kitaman/Rels/Superbia/HtS.
I don't even care that I'm in this list, this echoes my thoughts so much (mostly the second list- I would replace myself with sicklucker).
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On November 05 2015 00:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 00:50 Superbia wrote:On November 05 2015 00:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote:Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me. Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment. On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote:OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline. 1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote:
I instantly retract my townread. On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote:
So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before. 2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote:
Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum? On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia. 3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarishOn November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote:
So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that? ConclusionThat is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative. You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos. This answer: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2015 06:35 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote:Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it. This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me): On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance. ...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push. Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far. I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him. Let's break this apart into two pieces: 1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this. 2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense? I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later. I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it. Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment. I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is. At the start of it you mention how you want Rels to walk you through his argument, but then you proceed to trash him and explain your scumread moreso than that you seem to be looking for an explanation. Do you have any questions for him in specific? Read the post the answer quotes. There are questions left unanswered, and the answer is very "uncaring". If that makes sense. I put effort into my post, and the effort in the answer is just, it doesn't fucking tell me anything new. Alright, okay. Your TMI argument doesn't really make sense to me though. You say he's working from a TMI perspective in which he knows Xata is town and you're scum. Somehow I doubt this is the argument you're actually trying to make.
My initial problem with rels (the TMI one) is this:
- He starts off by saying he will "eventually" read Xat (d3 or so, iirc).
- He scum-reads on me for the reasoning he has given, but that reasoning strictly works if Xat is town (But he has no read on him?).
That was my initial TMI read on Rels. It may still be true, but I'm mainly focused on the fact that is he hammering this shit home, even though he should've either re-evaluated or evolved his read from here.
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You have been fucking calling me scum, have you not? If not, what was the fucking point of all of that? Like what have you actually concluded? How have you been able to not fucking talk this through with me if you're town? Like why did you not pick apart my explanation post if you think I was (or may be) scum? How is it that you're able to give these weak, no-effort responses if you're town?
Yeah, right.
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On November 05 2015 00:58 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 00:55 Superbia wrote:On November 05 2015 00:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 05 2015 00:50 Superbia wrote:On November 05 2015 00:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote:Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me. Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment. On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote:OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline. 1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote:
I instantly retract my townread. On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote:
So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before. 2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote:
Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum? On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia. 3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarishOn November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote:
So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that? ConclusionThat is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative. You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos. This answer: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2015 06:35 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote:Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it. This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me): On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance. ...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push. Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far. I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him. Let's break this apart into two pieces: 1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this. 2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense? I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later. I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it. Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment. I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is. At the start of it you mention how you want Rels to walk you through his argument, but then you proceed to trash him and explain your scumread moreso than that you seem to be looking for an explanation. Do you have any questions for him in specific? Read the post the answer quotes. There are questions left unanswered, and the answer is very "uncaring". If that makes sense. I put effort into my post, and the effort in the answer is just, it doesn't fucking tell me anything new. Alright, okay. Your TMI argument doesn't really make sense to me though. You say he's working from a TMI perspective in which he knows Xata is town and you're scum. Somehow I doubt this is the argument you're actually trying to make. My initial problem with rels (the TMI one) is this: - He starts off by saying he will "eventually" read Xat (d3 or so, iirc). - He scum-reads on me for the reasoning he has given, but that reasoning strictly works if Xat is town (But he has no read on him?). False. The read is based on something illogical, and has not link with Xata's alignement.
Has an absolute link with Xata's alignment. I am pushing Xata for something you deem illogical. Fair enough, but the scum-read indicates Xata is town. Else I am scum-reading Scum-Xata as scum for an illogical reason- why?
On November 05 2015 00:55 Superbia wrote:
That was my initial TMI read on Rels. It may still be true, but I'm mainly focused on the fact that is he hammering this shit home, even though he should've either re-evaluated or evolved his read from here.
False. I just said it was a small scum indication and that I was waiting to see where Superbia would do next.[/QUOTE]
You have been unable to properly evaluate my early-play, even though I have walked through it and explained it, in a post you have conveniently pretty much ignored. Have been ignoring my queries to in-depth evaluate it and other questions (which I cannot recall, but they were probably important). Moreover, you have put 0 effort from that point on to evaluate me in any sort of way (from what I can tell).
Like my fucking nightmare scenario in this game is if you are actually town -as I am evaluating this game from the point of view in which you are mafia- but I cannot believe it at this point in time.
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On November 05 2015 01:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I actually think the argument has gone off base so far that its depleted its usefulness and we should move onto more productive things.
Superbia, you indicated you think Kita is scum for how he read you. Is there anything else you dislike about him? What do you think about the rest of his reads?
Perhaps you are right in this argument. In any case we should probably not pursue it any further now as it will not help me evaluate Rels in any sort of way.
Kita is still up in the air at this point, he's not in my town circle. (My PoE scum list is: Rels, Shockey, Kita, Sicklucker, HtS/maybe you)
I'm mostly going off the votes here:
- There's a general feel that it is obvious most people will vote no- so scum (as having no QT) are more likely to vote with the general consensus (not sticking out etc.).
- Mafia are very likely to vote yes on a mission with a mafia. Unless the consensus is against it. Consensus takes heavy priority over everything for mafia.
- Mafia are somewhat likely to vote no on a mission with only town. They can vote yes to look good, especially early on. This can very easily go against consensus ("see, I told you the mission would pass!").
- Mafia are very likely to vote no on a mission with only town, if the situation is dire.
- Stand out vote is usually either trolly or complete confidence. I don't think shockey was/had either.
So:
If the team consisted of town, and my PoE is correct:
- Mafia is likely:
Rels, shockey, sicklucker.
If the team had a mafia, and my PoE is correct:
- Mafia is likely:
Rels, Kita, Shockey/SL.
OR
Rels, HtS (who would attempt to frame Kita), shockey/SL.
Alternate world would include both HtS and Kita but eh. Could be, but I don't think so atm. I think rayn's argument as to kita trying to influence the team a lot near deadline is good. I think the fact that none of the team-members votes for the team to pass leans towards a scum being on the team (scum votes as consensus, town votes what they believe, the fact that no one in the team believed therefore leans me more towards a scum being in the team).
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I'm going to read some more pages as I am not caught up 100% yet. And then groceries. Will probably be back later this evening.
I propose this team:
Xat/Rayn/Superbia
Kinda selfish, but whatever. I think that team would likely pass.
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Kind of nowhere. It's PoE. I expect town SL to be a lot more involved and active. He hasn't really done anything this game. He has done this before as town, but I can read him when he's doing shit, not when he's not. So he goes in the back of the PoE list.
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On November 05 2015 01:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 01:26 Superbia wrote:On November 05 2015 01:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I actually think the argument has gone off base so far that its depleted its usefulness and we should move onto more productive things.
Superbia, you indicated you think Kita is scum for how he read you. Is there anything else you dislike about him? What do you think about the rest of his reads? Perhaps you are right in this argument. In any case we should probably not pursue it any further now as it will not help me evaluate Rels in any sort of way. Kita is still up in the air at this point, he's not in my town circle. (My PoE scum list is: Rels, Shockey, Kita, Sicklucker, HtS/maybe you) I'm mostly going off the votes here: - There's a general feel that it is obvious most people will vote no- so scum (as having no QT) are more likely to vote with the general consensus (not sticking out etc.). - Mafia are very likely to vote yes on a mission with a mafia. Unless the consensus is against it. Consensus takes heavy priority over everything for mafia. - Mafia are somewhat likely to vote no on a mission with only town. They can vote yes to look good, especially early on. This can very easily go against consensus ("see, I told you the mission would pass!"). - Mafia are very likely to vote no on a mission with only town, if the situation is dire. - Stand out vote is usually either trolly or complete confidence. I don't think shockey was/had either. So: If the team consisted of town, and my PoE is correct: - Mafia is likely: Rels, shockey, sicklucker. If the team had a mafia, and my PoE is correct: - Mafia is likely: Rels, Kita, Shockey/SL. OR Rels, HtS (who would attempt to frame Kita), shockey/SL. Alternate world would include both HtS and Kita but eh. Could be, but I don't think so atm. I think rayn's argument as to kita trying to influence the team a lot near deadline is good. I think the fact that none of the team-members votes for the team to pass leans towards a scum being on the team (scum votes as consensus, town votes what they believe, the fact that no one in the team believed therefore leans me more towards a scum being in the team). I'm confused why you put me as a maybe yet didn't include me in any potential scumteam. Also, putting rels in every team; are you that certain at this point?
No. I also have no real solid read on you so that's why I'm iffy. We've played 1 game together iirc. You're leaning town but at this point I can leave you on PoE for 3p mission. If I have to be replaced on mission it's by you. But I really would prefer it to be me on the mission.
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EPT
