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Vivax
21965 Posts
6. Rels 7. sicklucker 8. kitaman27 9. me These are all people I don't want to decide except 9 of course but point being is that shockey in my opinion makes a mistake putting SL on a team. And the next 3 guys are people I can see being mafia, so you are at a crossroads between townreading one of them or townreading me. More of a technicality but relevant to the strategy. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Vivax
21965 Posts
I can compromise on swapping myself out with either Shockey or Xata (who I think is more likely to be town than SL) if you don't trust me. If you also TR rayn who in my opinion is a good player but had to be wrong on someone last cycle, that sort of coincides with his reads, with exception of HTS/Shockey. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 13 2015 06:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I thought you were trying to narrow it down for the entire thread rather than just yourself. If you don't provide any argumentation for why you're town, that doesn't really help. It's not up to me to make an argument for why I'm town. That's for other people to decide. I can respond to points that people raise, but I'm not going to make a "why I'm town" post out of the blue. On November 13 2015 06:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote: As for my read on you: I do feel you've fallen off a bit in recent times. I liked you in the start but a combination of renewed insight on HtS/Shockeyy which were two scumreads that I now townread as well as your more recent posts have led me to change my opinion on you. Specifics please. On November 13 2015 06:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote: As for your relationship to Xata: It's very plausible since you've pushed both Xata and SL at different points in the game, and you never had the awkward start that the Xata/Superbia slot had with one another. I just don't think there's any benefit to two scum interacting with each other in that way. Could you explain what you mean when you say you "don't think there's any benefit to two scum interacting with each other in that way". Sure, they had their back and forth, but they ended it on good terms afterwards. Xata was suggesting super for the day one team. Super never concluded scum on xata. I can bring up the quotes that suggest this if need be. Yet on day one, I'm putting together a case about why HTS should not include Xata in her group and Xata straight up laughs several times my name is brought up, having me as his primary scum read the entire game. We're actually scum reading each other, while xata/super are fine with each other for the most part. Why is there "no benefit" between the super/xata interaction, yet it is completely reasonable for the kita/xata interaction to be spy beneficial? | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
It's not going to do town any good if I'm the only one in the game understanding his approach to the game. Lex do you have any additional experience with scum Kita btw that I should be on the lookout for? Going to extensively meta him tonight. Some of the things in 2765 have me a bit wary at the moment (particularly WoS' caution about his squeaky clean scumgame) but I am going to try and compare to his games in JOAT/Aperture to be sure. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On November 13 2015 06:56 kitaman27 wrote: It's not up to me to make an argument for why I'm town. That's for other people to decide. I can respond to points that people raise, but I'm not going to make a "why I'm town" post out of the blue. Palmar would disapprove. Fair enough though. On November 12 2015 06:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So anyway, the fact that rels is already trying to throw shit on me before the mission failed makes me pretty sure he's scum. Looking at potential partners, I actually don't think shockeyy's scum. Two reasons: A) he really hasn't been playing to any kind of wincon and in the end I have to admit it probably means he's town. B) I don't think mafia rels would be the first to risk townreading shockeyy whom looked really bad. As for HtS, I actually think she might be town. The way she keeps on trucking and focuses on solving the game even in the face of being nearly universally townread makes me eerie. Which means there must be a scum in kita/vivax too since scum xata would never nominate scum sl with him and rayn is never scum this game. Gonna have to focus on that later. It's mostly related to this honestly. Realizing that the mission was likely going to fail meant that at least one of HtS and Shockeyy was town. I decided to re-eval them both and honestly the way both of them approached the game made me feel like they were likely town. HtS in that she doesn't really seem to be working towards any kind of towncred; she wasn't fighting the reads on her and she knew that she likely wasn't going to be listened to much, yet she kept trucking. Shockeyy because he really wasn't playing to any kind of wincon that makes sense for scum. It doesn't really make sense for town either, but there was a certain directionessless to his posts that I came around to. Both of them being town meant that either you or Vivax has to be scum since I don't believe there's two scum in the first three and I don't think Rayn was scum. As for you falling off: I felt the combos thing didn't really serve much purpose and it seems you've mostly been asking questions and gathering information without really.. using it? The combinations thing led you to 'confirm' scumread Vivax, but it only really works for you and doesn't prove why Vivax is scum, nor did you really go into why when you returned to the thread and him having a strong chance of being on a team should make that a priority for you. Could you explain what you mean when you say you "don't think there's any benefit to two scum interacting with each other in that way". Sure, they had their back and forth, but they ended it on good terms afterwards. Xata was suggesting super for the day one team. Super never concluded scum on xata. I can bring up the quotes that suggest this if need be. Yet on day one, I'm putting together a case about why HTS should not include Xata in her group and Xata straight up laughs several times my name is brought up, having me as his primary scum read the entire game. We're actually scum reading each other, while xata/super are fine with each other for the most part. Why is there "no benefit" between the super/xata interaction, yet it is completely reasonable for the kita/xata interaction to be spy beneficial? I don't think scum attacks another scum for something this superficial. It just doesn't have a benefit for either of them except if someone happens to interpret it this way. It just makes people wonder why the hell someone attacked someone else for something that little, with no credit going to either of them. Your attacks on Xatalos on the other hand actually got you towncred. It doesn't matter if Superbia/Xata ended up townreading eachother; you only need one scum to go on a mission to fail it. Distancing and buddying both have their merits. It's the way he approached attacking Xata and what he did it for that made me think he's likely town if Xata is scum. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On November 13 2015 06:57 Half the Sky wrote: I read that entire sicklucker exchange and there was one post that made me think there is a legit reason (albeit a wrong one and I kept making the less likely argument as parcel as to why we are in the position that we are in right now) for his changing reads on you/confusion on Rels but if enough people are finding his play confusing he needs to explain it himself when he wakes up. It's not going to do town any good if I'm the only one in the game understanding his approach to the game. Lex do you have any additional experience with scum Kita btw that I should be on the lookout for? Going to extensively meta him tonight. Some of the things in 2765 have me a bit wary at the moment (particularly WoS' caution about his squeaky clean scumgame) but I am going to try and compare to his games in JOAT/Aperture to be sure. Where's your head at right now Daniele? Are you still on Xata/Rels/Vivax, or? I don't really have much knowledge of Kita's scumgame. The only time I actually recall him playing was in the Shadow game I hosted, though I think I also played a game with him when I smurfed but I don't recall entirely so I'm afraid I don't have much. I don't think I ever played with him as scum yet in any case. | ||
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Vivax
21965 Posts
I'd claim he can be on the level of BH in mafia mini mafia which is recent, if he puts enough effort into it. I don't think he's on the level of BH in this game teehee. I think the best way to read him is just checking if he pushes townies (or scum objectives) or is actually believably correct on something.Imo he has been focusing on the wrong things, like his setup talk in the start when to me all the exchanges between Xata/super and rayn/Rels felt really interesting (although he could only have commented on Xata/super, rayn/rels happened later and I have to see if he took a stance there). And he has tried to push my slot as being spy which I also didn't like. I thought my slot was looking townier than Xata at the beginning of the game. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 13 2015 06:16 Half the Sky wrote: sicklucker and Kita have been at it at each other nearly all game. Why do you think (or am I misreading) they are double bussing? Are you sure those interactions are scum on scum? How do you know that Kita isn't doing the same thing to sicklucker that you claim he's (analogously) doing to you? I think this is more than enough evidence that he hasn't looked at me in the slightest. If he honestly isn't familiar with my interaction with SL, yet concludes that SL and myself are buddies together, how can anyone possibly think that his read is legitimate? He attacks me for the "meh I don't care" post an hour into the game and he attacks me for the "spammy" list thing I did last night, but completely ignores any analysis relevant to the events of the game. | ||
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Vivax
21965 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On November 13 2015 06:56 Vivax wrote: I can tell you already that I would send or accept HTS/Coag/Artanis/myself. I can compromise on swapping myself out with either Shockey or Xata (who I think is more likely to be town than SL) if you don't trust me. If you also TR rayn who in my opinion is a good player but had to be wrong on someone last cycle, that sort of coincides with his reads, with exception of HTS/Shockey. I'm so sure on Xatalos and Rels as spies at this point but if we must compromise and you want SL out, then Shockey in for sure. Also the frustrating thing here is that rayn is town but Coag needs to do his part in getting Shockey out of the tunnel. Goddamnit. Part of the problem there from Shockey's POV is that rayn voted for two failed missions and was in two failed missions but that must mean that who else is scum? But there's a reason that not even scum are trying to bury him for that even. His reads were off this game (Shockey/myself) so that should lend clear to him as to why he voted that way and put the people on his mission that he did. And to be quite frank, if it comes down to you and Xatalos, I would take you over Xatalos by a country mile. Because I really really think he's mafia and if he gets on a team again, this game is over. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I know what he is capable of when he bleeds town, namely Gaiden. So I am going to give him his chance. | ||
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Vivax
21965 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On November 13 2015 07:07 Vivax wrote: He's a good mafia, will never forget the game where cultkush converted him and then he owned the town :/. I'd claim he can be on the level of BH in mafia mini mafia which is recent, if he puts enough effort into it. I don't think he's on the level of BH in this game teehee. I think the best way to read him is just checking if he pushes townies (or scum objectives) or is actually believably correct on something.Imo he has been focusing on the wrong things, like his setup talk in the start when to me all the exchanges between Xata/super and rayn/Rels felt really interesting (although he could only have commented on Xata/super, rayn/rels happened later and I have to see if he took a stance there). And he has tried to push my slot as being spy which I also didn't like. I thought my slot was looking townier than Xata at the beginning of the game. Well setup talk is always NAI. I get that. But the latter exchange with rayn/Rels is a blur so I go and add that to the Kita meta read tonight then. And Kita's game so far has had that squeaky clean attribute that WoS described in Personality Mafia. In both my worlds with Xata as scum, there was SOME double bussing going on and there was disassociation day 1 (which is what my scumreads are pushing against because it is obviously less likrly), so for me it's an issue of metareading and re-checking filters. The problem is for me there's a lot of stuff in the filters esp with Rels that really don't add up and when you do associative from Rels it's pointing to Kita as scum. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On November 13 2015 07:15 Vivax wrote: There's one thing I wanna know though: Why is Artanis not trusting me? I thought his early townread wasn't bad if genuine (he worded it kinda sloppy tho). I am kind of trusting you, but it requires Xata to be scum and with how scummy SL just looked I'm actually not sure on that one anymore. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Vivax
21965 Posts
On November 13 2015 07:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I am kind of trusting you, but it requires Xata to be scum and with how scummy SL just looked I'm actually not sure on that one anymore. You will never be sure on that, you should compromise on picking two that you don't send on a mission, that's completely feasible, even three. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On November 13 2015 07:07 kitaman27 wrote: I think this is more than enough evidence that he hasn't looked at me in the slightest. If he honestly isn't familiar with my interaction with SL, yet concludes that SL and myself are buddies together, how can anyone possibly think that his read is legitimate? He attacks me for the "meh I don't care" post an hour into the game and he attacks me for the "spammy" list thing I did last night, but completely ignores any analysis relevant to the events of the game. Kita Vivax has said he's not have had the time to play this game. He is probably going to have bad and/or suboptimal reads regardless of alignment. Why are you suggesting (if you are?) this could be mafia motivated? | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On November 13 2015 07:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Anyway, gone for the rest of the night. Good night Lex <3 I know I'm right on sicklucker and Xatalos. I just wish we were both a little more articulate about it (although it's better for sicklucker at this point to be so). I tried explaining it once. Ugh. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On November 13 2015 07:07 Vivax wrote: He's a good mafia, will never forget the game where cultkush converted him and then he owned the town :/. I'd claim he can be on the level of BH in mafia mini mafia which is recent, if he puts enough effort into it. I don't think he's on the level of BH in this game teehee. I think the best way to read him is just checking if he pushes townies (or scum objectives) or is actually believably correct on something.Imo he has been focusing on the wrong things, like his setup talk in the start when to me all the exchanges between Xata/super and rayn/Rels felt really interesting (although he could only have commented on Xata/super, rayn/rels happened later and I have to see if he took a stance there). And he has tried to push my slot as being spy which I also didn't like. I thought my slot was looking townier than Xata at the beginning of the game. There was a very recent example of this - Kita carried mafia in the New Personality Mafia which is why I've picked that game to meta (he aliased as Judge Judy). | ||
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