EPTES lynch tomorrow, for sure, no ifs, ands, buts, ya dig?
Student Mafia XVI - Page 6
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
ES lynch tomorrow, for sure, no ifs, ands, buts, ya dig? | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
On October 26 2015 05:05 Fecalfeast wrote: GB you gonna sulk in your qt or pretend to be shocked? Lol. On a sadder note, rip FF  ES was def the RB and BF took the lynch to kill you tonight. We will still have confirmed Rels at least.OR MAFIA MIGHT CONCEDE? =D | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
ES is pretty obviously lock scum here. And the RB. There is no other motivation IMO for BF to CC FF when they could have just won the game lynching a town ES, which means she is scum. Let's talk about the 3rd scum. Anyone here? It's obvious the next 2 NKs are going to be our blues, as they are confirmed town and scum loses the game automatically without killing them in Final 4. That leaves Vonthin GB and Farrah. Farrah cased ES D1 and has been trying to get her lynched forever. That's obvtown. Final lynch HAS to be Vonthin or GB. Discuss. | ||
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The Shining
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On October 26 2015 11:53 Fecalfeast wrote: I was thinking in final 4 you guys should sleep is this smart? Yes, OP says we can no lynch and I planned on pushing for it after lynching ES and dealing with 2 NKs. But it's pointless if mafia can choose to no shoot so until we get confirmation that mafia HAS to shoot at night, it's pointless diving too much into this. | ||
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The Shining
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The Shining
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The Shining
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##Vote: Eversince | ||
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The Shining
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At least between D1 and now, its pretty obvious she spewed me town by constantly trying to get me lynched and tunneling the fck out of me. And the vote on me...lel. I'm probably just gonna flip a coin between GB and Vonthin. I do find it very interesting that ES didn't flip RB, though. I thought the reason BF sacd himself was to save their RB to make sure they could kill Fecal. The other(leading) lynch was GB...GB could very well be the RB. What I don't get is why BF would case scumGB and try to get him lynched, then CC FF to try and save him. Unless he was going for a super pro play, it seems counterproductive. FF made a good point on the GB wifom statement too though. And I haven't forgotten how in my last scum game, GB was going to be the lynch before people shifted to me. GB raged up a storm and defended hard. This game, GB has been very pacifistic while being at lynch risk more than once. GB wanna just concede now? | ||
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The Shining
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Man, Vonthin had this game almost figured out pretty early... | ||
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The Shining
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The Shining
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I still don't understand why Farrah was killed, either. Because she wanted to lynch Vonthin? So Vonthin is last scum? Or because she thought GB could be town? So GB is last scum and wanted to immortalize that TR? Sigh. Here goes nothing ##Vote: GlowingBear | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
Vonthin may have just pocketed me with that consistent Shining is town school and a town case...why post such an extensive town case when he had no scum cases. Just responses to people and list posts with simple reads... I kinda feel like yolo voting Vonthin... | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
On October 25 2015 22:50 boxerfred wrote: Fake CC'ing when there's a safe lynch on GB doesn't make sense. Remember that I made a huge case on him and brought attention back to that case when Farah and Rels went at each other. The whole Rels vs. Farah discussion feels like Farah is trying to get herself lynched (even with a self-vote) to get herself killed - my case happened just before that. Farah is Goon, GB is the Roleblocker, FF is the Godfather. They know that the doc is around so FF claiming vet is a great play to exchange Doctor for a useless GF, especially since it happens on a call from a confirmed town, which is Rels. By allowing that play and justifying it, Rels is indeed scum MVP. I healed Rels every single night, except N1 where I healed Farah because I thought her case on ES was really good and the flip on scott turned out to be town. If we lynch me or ES today, the game is over and lost. If we lynch GB or Farah or Fecalfeast, the game is won. That is it. It just makes sense. Farah didn't dare to touch me in the beginning - I hard townread her. When I started to put suspicion on her because her weak night and her weak EoD2 and the weak reasons to reduce GlowingBear from her scum pool, she instantly started to shift pressure on me. Earlier this day, she engaged with Rels up to the point that she'd "never play a game on tl.net" again yet she is arguing in exactly the same way she did before she got in that discussion. How is that town? This is a pressured scum raging, nothing more. Also look at how she pocketed Shining be regularly townreading him. Also note how FF jumps in and Farah comes right after - alarm bells in scum qt must be ringing. I'm confident that the game is solved in its entirety. Lynch between FF/GB/Farah. FF is the way to go because he's confirmed scum after my claim. GB on the other hand is the roleblocker that Farah wanted to safe. It doesn't matter at all though since I'll be dead in the next night. Eversince, Vonthin, Shining, Rels, we're the townies in here. Since Vonthin and Eversince are under suspicion from the scum team, it's up to Shining and Rels to win the game. You have to decide if it's FF/GB/Farah or BF/Vonthin/ES as Farah paints it. Basically this day comes town to a lynch between FF and me. Lynch FF and survive another day for the next lylo. Lynch me and lose the game right now. Again: I softened doctor several times. Sicklucker picked that up in one post where he said "that guy is not vt". He saw the hint. He is a confirmed town so it's not a scum mate building up my reputation. FF comes out of nothing with a vet claim that strongly helps scum in finding the Doctor. Kill FF. The bolded. I know I'm town and Rels is confirmed town. There is no reason for BF to only include ES as his town pile when he was trying to win the game at that moment. Putting ES and Vonthin back to back may have been an unconscious slip because he's their team. BF wanted FF lynched to win the game and wass saying pretty much anything to get it done but he made two teams. FF/GB/Farah 2 of which are confirmd town now, and BF/Vonthin/ES. He looked desperate. BF and ES already flipped. I think he unintentionally gave us the 3rd scum. He also scummed Vonthin for most of the game(Vonthin scummed BF most of the game too) but neither actually pushed the other. Actually, BF evn came off of Vonthin after one post of him answering questions. Scum finds it hard to push each other too hard. They just left their options open to bussing. Also ES asked me an early question about my read on GB. I thought it could've been trying to get me to TR her scummate but revisiting it, she has like 0 mention of Vonthin in her filter. When she tried to scum or lynch pretty much every other townie in the game, she completely off Vonthin alone. Hrm. | ||
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The Shining
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The Shining
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On October 29 2015 16:49 Vonthin wrote: Interactions between GB and BF this game for reference for everyone. Will do a post of GB and ES tomorrow. Going to sleep now. GB--->BF + Show Spoiler + 1.Boxer makes awkward post that MD calls scummy On October 18 2015 06:14 boxerfred wrote: Actually no since I rolled VT just like I did in all of my last games ffs and I have moosy and gb spam up the thread although I said pregame that I'm on a limited schedule. actually no, I#m not happy. Proceeds to defend him. On October 18 2015 06:22 GlowingBear wrote: I see no problem in boxers post MD surprised he didn't have a problem with his post, GB proceeds to defend the post On October 18 2015 06:30 GlowingBear wrote: I really can't see clear scum morivation behind that post. I mean, he even said BEFORE the game started that he wouldn't have enough time to play anyway GB never replies as MD tries to inquire more about his read on this. 2.Questions BF about the tinfoiling, never pushes it further. On October 21 2015 05:42 GlowingBear wrote: But why do you suggest we tinfoil things???? I mean, it doesn't make sense 3.Calls a Boxer post shit, doesn't explain why its shit, doesn't talk about him again for awhile. 4. Calls him scum based on TMI on the Moosy lynch. Then never mentions him again till he says he might be town since he made a case on himself On October 23 2015 05:06 GlowingBear wrote: Boxerfred. TMI on Moosy being town but not really trying to shift the lynch. On October 25 2015 03:32 GlowingBear wrote: Rels I don't think farah is mafia by the way. Voting me would be the path of least resistance. Instead she is trying to push Vonthin and this push seems okay. I also think boxerfred might be town for his effort into having me lynched. I really believe FF should be the lynch today. What do you think? 5.Votes Boxer after the claim saying you always lynch the 100% obvious scum. Then he unvotes and votes FF after he finds an old FF post that makes him "believe" that BF and pushes for FF lynch hard. Once he sees that no one is gonna change to FF at the deadline he changes his vote back to boxer apologizing to him. BF-->GB + Show Spoiler + 1.His first time mentioning GB in the game On October 20 2015 23:19 boxerfred wrote: GB: "Rels's post is forced" Rels: "GB's post is forced" Scum having a field day. However Rels keeps himself to reasoning while GB spits out theories. Let's try to ask questions: - how does sicklucker/Eversince make sense? Why is that? I can't replicate that. - what exactly makes sicklucker scum if Rels is scum? Your ideas revolve around sicklucker who is (to me) the most unreadable guy in this game. 2.Them talking to each other about the SL/Rels claim On October 21 2015 05:31 boxerfred wrote: saw it now, when I started typing, thread was 2 pages before. I went from "vote him because I dont wanna be in lylo with that uncertainty" over to "wait, could rels be yolo'ing?" to "no wait, vig has one shot" and setup analysis which is bullshit because it has no use for town, scum roles are identical in each setup to - this. 3.BF mentions GB might be scum in this long post + Show Spoiler + On October 21 2015 19:52 boxerfred wrote: I like Vonthin's response to my questions, I dislike that he scumreads me. He's not the lynch for today though imho. Let me bring his scum read on me up: I think you refer to one big, seemingly confusing post only and this is a post that is built up quite logically: I caught up, and while I was catching up, I quoted posts that I deemed interesting. I even said that on top of that post. Go have a re-read of that post. Regarding my Moosy read: I contradicted myself in that read. I was wrong, that's about it. That's why I later said that it was bullshit. I also refrained from my Moosy scumread although it really bothers me that he's not around. So no, I have not continued pushing Moosy, you're misrepresenting the facts. However I still do not have a townread Moosy, although I liked his posts N1 a bit. Third, regarding the "I just skimmed" case - it was simply honest, sorry if that makes me look bad. Read into that whatever you want, I don't care. ____________ I'm wondering why Farah pushes a MD lynch since her case on ES was/is good. Why the preference now that MD apparently isn't here? Also why that townread on Shining? I don't get the "emotional" argument at all, one can fake his/her meta. Elaborate please. Then again, I wonder why Farah removes GB from her "remaining scum" list. I think your reads of shining and GB are really weak. I also dislike that Fecalfeast comes into the thread once he's under pressure. Why not do this before? Not interested to solve the game? If so, why not? I strongly think there's scum in between GB and FF, maybe MD but I don't have a solid case on that. I guess MD will break my neck the longer I survive in that game because I cannot tell if he's town or scum but I still have that scum feeling. I had the same fucking feeling in the game we played when he was scum and talked everyone into oblivion, however I was mislynched before being able to get him lynched. I actually have a good grasp on that game, SL and MD are the only ones I don't have at least a reasoned opinion on. That, among with my standing as a townread person, will probably get me shot soon. Well, some casualties cannot be prevented. Fecal as of now I don't have the time to really look at the games you mentioned towards me. Hold me at it, I'll try to do so this evening. The lynch should happen in between FF/GB/ES/Shining. I think those guys have the highest chance to flip scum. Second tier lynches are MD/SL(though GB scumreads him which actually makes me rethink that)/VonThin. Don't lynch: Farah. Never lynch: Rels, boxerfred. 4.Adds onto the case of GB day 3 and makes the bandwagon bigger pushes him a little. + Show Spoiler + On October 24 2015 22:36 boxerfred wrote: I want to hang GlowingBear. He was always under the radar. He wasn't too active at any point. The other arguments that were brought up were decent. And here's another thing that makes me think he's scum: He was the one who started the Moosy votes. After successfully lynching Moosy, shifting thread sentiment against me with the TMI argument, he says during night that he doesn't really care or something like that. As I said D2 already: a lynch between Farah and Eversince would've been a good idea. I strongly think that only one of them (most likely Eversince) is scum. But after Farah's weak EoD2 and the weird Shining/Farah interaction I'm not so sure of that anymore. I'm down to say that in a world where Farah or ES are scum, the chances are distributed like 70-30 or maybe even 60-40. GlowingBear in the meantime is the one who did nothing all the time. His D1 started with a "lol we're both scum" interaction with Moosy, a resemblance to their previous game. That already sent some townies on the wrong track. He also jumped to my defence when Moosy pushed me D1 which makes sense as scum but not as town. As town, you want to pressure people into getting more answers, especially low volume posters like me. As scum, you're fine to see people fight about lynches that do not target your fellow scum members, so of course you sometimes defend townies. GB pocketed me with that, I never really looked into him apart from my rather general thoughts during D2. This is an awesome answer. At that point, GB isn't ad hom to anyone, except to kelsier who starts scumreading him at this point. Why would GB defend me in a well-reasoned manner and then just answer to kelsier in that way? Only difference in those situations is that in a), I (town) am under attack and scum!GB is fine with whatever way the pressure goes while in b), GB (scum) is under attack and of course he doesn't want that to gain traction. Right? Next up, more fillers: Followed by a list post: ...which has kelsier as a scumread and, interestingly enough, Farah as a townread. The same Farah that actually removed GB for weak arguments from her "pool of potential scum" D2: This whole post is scummy for the following reasons: a) townread D1 by GB, Farah removes GB for "well he tried a bit to hunt scum" reasons from her scum pool. b) "scum has little motivation to jump on and off if Scott is scum" - that's a town alignment argument from Farah towards GB. However GB uses the same argument but reconstructs it as a TMI to push me because I jumped off MoosyDoosy and on FF. To me it's pretty clear that GB and Farah are 2/3 scum members together. Sicklucker also started townreading Eversince so at this point I'm pretty sure we have bad town Eversince and scum!Farah. My best bet would be a GB/Farah/Shining scumteam because of some tinfoilhatty "they know themselves outside in RL" and because I think since D2 that Shining is a bad player. Also, in GB's list post D1, he soft-bussed already on Shining, saying that he had a horrendous entry to the game. GB is definitely capable of doing that simply to be able to stay under the radar as soon as anything against his scummate Shining gains traction. ##vote GlowingBear 5. Then we have the claim, still thinks GB is scum in the claim post + Show Spoiler + On October 25 2015 18:16 boxerfred wrote: GB is totally scum with Farah. Initially I thought that her conversation with Rels is legit. She looked frustrated up to the point where she voted herself. Then she went into "no not playing here" and "yo everybody is dumb" - sorry, no, no, no! This simply is not legit anymore. She's "contributing" (i.e. martyring into ES push). I said since D2 that it's either ES or Farah and contrary to Farah, ES actually participated in the game and did not martyr at any point. He's way more legit than Farah is although Farah (maybe due to the fact she's a native speaker) is way better at communicating her arguments. I was sure and still am that there is one scum between ES and Farah and the moosy lynch should've been the decision between Farah and ES, I know that now. Right now, Farah uses the town cred she got from a D1 case to re-jump on ES. Note how she didn't care at all(!!!!!!) when the lynch was on Moosy and not on ES. But right now where GB is under pressure, she gets in a hardcore fight with Rels and continues to push ES! No way! And thanks FF for claiming. I know I'm not supposed to counterclaim but - FF isn't the vet. He is scum trying to get the real doctor to counterclaim. The setup is Vig, Town, RB/GF/Goon. I am doctor, I softened it two times already: Both bolded parts mention the fact that Doctor cannot heal himself. The scumteam consists of FF/GB/Farah and that's it. FF is the 100% lynch, he's scum willing to exchange to the Doctor. I'm counterclaiming because I feel like we're fucking close to mislynching ES (NOTE THAT SICKLUCKER ALSO SAID ES IS TOWN BEFORE HE DIED BUT HAD CONCERNS TOWARDS FARAH!!!!) ##unvote ##vote FecalFeast safest call here 6. Backtracks on GB a little after saying he was 100% scum just before the claim and just saying he was scum in one of his recent posts On October 26 2015 01:48 boxerfred wrote: Except I cannot know if GB is scum and as I said in my previous post, I can even see Vonthin being the last scum since he jumps on me that easily. What makes you even so sure that FF claiming is correct and my claim is false? You cannot be sure except if you're scum. then you'd know my claim is correct. i don't know why you don't vote me straight away, it doesn't make sense at all. newbie scum not willing to commit in case a fellow scum member (ff) gets mislynched, obviously. 7. BF/GB/Farah argue for a bit, call each other scum. GB asks him why he didn't vote for FF, he did but there was a error in the recent vote post. After it was clarified GB changes his vote to FF But then these association posts look great...hm. Yeah votes in the right place. | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
I have read and reread BF ES Vonthin and GB filters like 5x today. It may take me a while but I'm working on a case right now. With a lot of parts involved. FF you are my conftown. I need you to seriously look at this when I'm done. Too many things are starting to add up. Haz faith in Shining, I did this day before lylo in a game in the past, cased scum and the other townie wouldn't sheep me and we lost. I hope you will follow me. Case incoming. | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
Yo FF, I'm doing a post-by-post filter analysis on Vonthin. Promise me you'll read the whole thing. You too, GB. And you're welcome. I'm trying to save your ass here XP | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
From D1 until now, I've had reasons to scum Vonthin but I never really pulled the trigger on it. Now, more than ever, it has become obvious. Bare with me, this will be a post-by-post filter analysis of Vonthin's FOUR PAGE FILTER. That seems especially short for a 4 day phase game. Let's look at D1: His first 9 posts were all playing into the fun joking phase at the start of the game. Remember this because it will come up later. Then he gets serious. + Show Spoiler + On October 18 2015 06:48 Vonthin wrote: For the most part I think he is fine, posting a lot early d1 is fine especially when not everyone has posted yet. Only thing I don't like is this + Show Spoiler + Not really caring about reading town? Doesn't sound right to me, but other than this post I don't have any problems with him. Anyways I'm playing League, will try to post in-between queues and will be more active later tonight The moment the game gets serious, he finds a reason to be suspicious of town(Moosy) and a reason to afk the game to avoid further questioning of his read. 2 hours later: + Show Spoiler + On October 18 2015 08:38 Vonthin wrote: I don't understand this game lol, nothing like the few games I've played in or obs'd. So much shitposting to provoke people or to just cause chaos, I don't know why towns people would do this At face value, this post could come from town. But it isn't. This post has absolutely no value other than to gripe about the game while indirectly throwing suspicion on everyone posting up to then. I even called out this post because of the phrasing towards the end. On October 18 2015 09:06 Vonthin wrote: I was implying the people shitposting are being scummy since I don't understand why towns people would do it this much since its not beneficial to the town, not saying they are just towns people who are shitposting. I understand some people starting off the game carefree and having fun but some posts are just useless shitposts So he admits he's scumming ALL the joke/shitposters to that point. But without naming any, or doing anything about it, he's just griping and adding to the shit. I called him out on this and asked him to expand on who he thought was shitposting and scum for it. His next post after that is a list post. + Show Spoiler + On October 18 2015 12:50 Vonthin wrote: My reads so far: Town: Scott-No shitposts, most of his posts are good questions Farah- Not much to read on but I've like what I've seen so far Glowingbear-Besides some of the banter with Moosy his posts look pro town to me, raising good points and asking good questions especially to myself Shining - See no problems with his filter cept he went with the funny opening for too long Boxer- Not much for me to go on, asked Mooser to stop shitposting was nice but I feel like the limited time thing is an excuse I have seen scum use often. More of a null read but 2 lazy to make a category just for him since he is the only one besides the 4 who haven't posted Scum Mooser- Lots of shitposting and spamming posts without any substance. This post still bothers me, even if you are town and want to spam non stop you still should care about looking town which makes things easier for the rest of us Fecalfeast - His first post was not a good way to start imo, second one doesn't tell me anything earlier though I do have some sympathy for the allergies. Kelseir - His posts were all fluff and negative for the most part Anyways its bed time So his initial scum are our conftown and 2 flipped townies. His townreads are strange, too. Following his shitpost theory, he effortlessly townreads Scott, who was coming under suspicion. Farah had not much to read on but another effortless townread. GB's posts look pro town, especially towards him. And myself. No problems with my short filter except I went with the joke phase too long. This is interesting because his first 9 posts were all part of the joke phase. Not to mention, joking for too long should put me in the shitposter category. But because GB and I were questioning him, he gives us townreads to try and divert suspicion. Note that all of these townreads are 1-2 line reads...except Boxer. Throws him in the town pile because he's too lazy to make a null pile and called his time thing an excuse he's used as scum before. It's like he's trying to convince himself he's town, when the others were effortless reads. He follows this with two useless excuse for being away/catch-up posts and another list post. This one is less organized, even though much more has happened since the first one. + Show Spoiler + On October 20 2015 02:03 Vonthin wrote: My thoughts on everyone now that I've read their filters. Moosy- Slight scum read, I didn't like his opening spam shitpost crap, and some of the reason Rels brought up after I made my post the other night. He has some posts though where I can see town motivation but the useless posts outweigh them for me. LoneMeow- I think he is town, I see clear motivation behind the things he is doing trying to get reads on people. Sicklurker-Leaning slight scum on him, lots of fluff in his filter, I don't understand his Lonemeow vote, I don't see anything to go on besides him not posting a lot to make him scum. Never said lol ez town read or that he was my top read just because I typed his read first in the list., He was just under my list for people who I thought were town for the time. I liked the posts he made and he had no fluff. My strongest town read at the time I made that list was GB. He seemed to made his opinions of me without reading my posts then read them and changed them after someone called him out on his and read them. GB- Still town, I don't see any scum motivation behind his posts. Boxer-- Null still, I understand his reasoning behind his cases but I don't agree with most of them. Has some fluff here and there and his posts/opinions vary so I don't really understand him. Scott-Besides not posting a lot, his posts still read town to me. I understand lynching for inactivity though. Rels- I think he is town, I like most of his posts up un till his recent ones with his case against Lonemeow which I think is a pretty weak case for day1. Farah--Town, Clear town motivation behind her posts, no fluff. Her case against Ever is clear and thought out and makes sense. Ever-- The big thing that leaps out to me in his filter is the big post with all the quote about his case against KSC, was a big jumbled mess and a somewhat weak case. His thoughts are all over the place in the start but It could just be him being new and reacting to the posts he sees. Shining- I think he is town, I like his posts and arguments, has some things I don't like but the things I like outweigh the ones I don't. KSC - He started off looking scum to me but he started to look town since the last day. I like his reads and questions since he stopped posting fluff and being so negative at the start Fecal- Seems scummy, posts seem half assed which shit reads that doesn't give any explanations. Not enough to go on for a Day 1 lynch. Would Lynch: Lurker, Ever, Moosy Needs more posts/convincing: Fecal If anyone has specific questions for me hit me up fast since I have to go to my afternoon classes soon. Note that all of the town reads are very simple and easy to make with one-two liners. And it's very very very strange that he'd be so right on the alignments of players like Scott and Lonemeow when they were essentially super low activity and borderline useless D1. It makes more sense to do this from a scum perspective trying to distance himself from the easy mislynches and pushing onto his own town mislynches(Fecal, SL, Moosy). But the scumreads are super strange and weak, as if he doesn't believe them. Reasons to lynch SL: Fluff, not understanding his Lonemeow vote(but didn't ask him to elaborate on it), and doesn't see anything to go on besides him not posting much. So activity. Reasons to lynch Ever: Weak case against KSC, thoughts all over the place but it could be because she is new. If you could lynch Ever(confirmed scum), why would you be looking for reasons to explain her strange behavior instead of for reasons why she is scum? Because she's his scummate. Reasons to scum Moosy: shitposting and spam(which some of his townreads were guilty of) and harping on that one post about him not caring about his spam. He also ends this list post off with an excuse for having to leave the thread quite soon(again, to avoid having to answer too many questions). Now, at this point in the thread, Rels and Kelsier and a few other town were starting to scum Vonthin hard for his lurking and taking 2 hours to put out this really short, barely explained list post that he claimed he made after reading through everyone's filters. So what does he do? + Show Spoiler + On October 20 2015 02:28 Vonthin wrote: Day 1 reads has always been the hardest for me, my first newbie game I got lynched Day 1 as town for posting like this, the other game I completed my Day 1 posting was also weak. You can go and look. As for liking Meow I don't see any scum motivation behind the posts. I understand the logic behind them and what he was trying to accomplish by trying to get reads on people and to trap BF that one time, I just don't see mafia doing that D1. As for Scott I don't think he was trying to scum up the thread at all in his posts, I don't think being lynched for inactivity day 1(unless they didn't post at all or vote but they would get mod killed anyways) isn't worth it because if they get lynched it doesn't give us much info to go on depending on the result since he has given us so little information which would give the scum an advantage and it would be like playing day 1 all over again unless we get lucky and he is actually scum. Day 2 he does the same thing then you can go for him. Anyways I'm off for class, not sure I will be back before deadline so my vote will be for Ever ##Vote: Eversince He tries to draw attention to his first town game when he was lynched for similarities to the posts here. So he's consciously aware of his meta. He even encourages us to go and confirm it ourselves. He again tries to distance himself from the easy mislynches in Meow and Scott but doesn't push any of his scum effectively. He knows he's being scummed so he AFKs a vote on his scummate, Eversince. This is over 2 hours before EoD. It's been argued that scumVonthin would never bus scumES D1 but now that we know the setup(Vig/Vet), ES being the Godfather was just as useful as BF being the Goon. The RB is their strongest role and they know that. With so much time left before EoD, and Eversince still not being on Scott(which she later switched to to save herself), it's a safe bus vote. Scum RB Vonthin can and will make this play. At best, Scott's wagon takes off and he gets mislynched. At worst, people scumming Vonthin note he voted scumES and he gets tons of town credit off the lynch, effectively removing most of the scumreads that were on him(Fecal, Rels, Kelsier, myself). And there's no way of telling if he was lurking and ready to move his vote onto Scott if ES did end up in the lead once the wagons started to consolidate into ES VS Scott. Then Scott is mislynched. Next post: + Show Spoiler + On October 21 2015 00:10 Vonthin wrote: Rels filter looks pretty scummy to me after that Scott push. It was way too forced and there was much better cases to vote on since Scott hardly posted. I don't understand policy lynches on Day 1, we don't get that much to look at. All we really got here is to look at the votes for Scott carefully and not his interactions with potential scum so I understand why Mafia would want to push for them since there would be less evidence for them to get caught. Though Rels did push really hard and I don't see why a Mafia would put that big of a target on his back which is somewhat making me question if he really is scum. So he doesn't care that his scumread and lynch that he voted on, Eversince, didn't get lynched. Instead, he immediately goes into scumming townVig Rels. But once again, after all the discredit aimed towards Rels and his "forced case" he ends off with Rels pushing really hard and he doesn't know why scum would out themselves like that. So it feels like he doesn't want to be the one to take the blame for Rels being mislynched if it were to happen. He was ready to have deniability. ALSO NOTE THAT BY THIS LOGIC, HE SHOULD BE QUESTIONING WHETHER GB IS SCUM NOW BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS EOD3. Why would mafia put that big of a target on his back when not 1 but 2 of his scummates are outed?? But he's perfectly fine with lynching GB today. Next post is an interaction with his scummate, Boxerfred. + Show Spoiler + On October 21 2015 10:17 Vonthin wrote: Besides the fluff posts in his filter he has been doing a lot of things I have liked. He has a lot of solid reads I have liked and agreed with like his one on Eversince. He has brought up some good points and has asked good questions like in the post where he called you out for skimming over the thread and how in the post you had way too much conflicting points in it. Besides his emotional/flufy start his feed overall looks towny and beneficial to the town overall. As for your second question asking about me understanding your reasoning, If you think your own case was bullshit why post it in the first place? Wouldn't a bullshit case be something Mafia would post to distract the thread in useless arguments? I really don't think it was that bullshit though since him being so spammy had little benefit to the game at the time you made your case. This is just you making conflicting points that Shining pointed out. As for Scott I didn't think they were bad enough to lynch him. His posts weren’t shitposts at the time which was a nice breath of fresh air at the time with all the other posts from Moosy and others. He asked some questions trying to get reads on people. I probably should've listed as null at the time with the amount of posts he had but his posts didn't look scummy to me so I had him under my town list. This is a classic scum distancing themselves from eachother. BF attacks Vonthin for his TR on me(which came after I made a post that there were 3/10 players towning me. Farrah, Moosy, Vonthin. And there was scum in Moosy/Vonthin.) He mentions I have fluff posts(but so do his scumreads) but then proceeds to attempt to pocket me. Says I look towny, overall beneficial, called BF out for skimming the thread and his conflicting points. And agrees with my points on ES. Then his answer about Moosy feels like another pocket attempt. He mentions again the conflicting argument I made. And then he defends his Scott townread. BF and Vonthin end up scumming eachother for a majority of the game and have this weird interaction but neither ever push eachother or case eachother. NOW ITS TIME FOR ANOTHER LIST POST! And this one really caught me eye during the reread because either Vonthin is a god Mafia player, or he's scum with perfect information. Ready? + Show Spoiler + On October 21 2015 10:26 Vonthin wrote: Right now my reads are: Town Rels- I thought he might be scum for pushing Scott so hard but I don't think he is lying with his Vig role claim especially as he is tryharding even with the bad push on Scott. GlowingBear - Has been spot on imo with his town play all game. Always has good questions and leads and has done a good job leading the town in general. Only things I don't like in his filter is when he says I'm voting Scott because not voting for the 2 main bandwagons is a waste of a vote then proceeds to unvote from the bandwagon. Shining - Same reasons I listed in my above post, I don't see him being scum with his filter. Farah - Her Day1 case on Ever was solid. The Day 2 cases and reads are logical from a towns perspective. I don't understand why she would say something like "this lynch is the easiest one for today" or this is the second easiest when she hasn't even read everyone's filter and made cases for the rest? Scum Fecal- Like I mentioned in my above post majority of his filter are just oneliners. He just says this person is scum or this person is town and doesn't even explain why. He never says in his filter why he thinks Scott is scummy besides just having his name under his list. Voting for someone after skimming posts and not even saying why he voted that person not even the "lol im sheeping X" is just plain scummy. Boxer- Lots of big long confusing posts that are all over the place that should've been separated into multiple posts. He makes a case against Moosy then later says it was a bullshit case? Why post it in the first place? Besides his case against Moosy(which he pushes even after calling it BS) he seems to be all over the place with what he is pushing, looks like scum trying to spread chaos to me. Also why ever say "I just scimmed the posts" and then make an opinion, this just gives you plausable deniability when you miss something that could make you look scummy. You always want to post when you have all the information. Ever- Starts off be coming into the thread spreading some shit and trying to make some easy pushes without much strength behind her. Then she just tries to defend herself with excuses for most of her filter. If you are about to get lynched one of the best things u can do is to is try to make solid reads and cases on people so incase you do actually die it will be way easier for us to find the scum if you flip town.She finally started making reads and stuff at the end of her filter which is good though. Slight scum lean for now. Null Moosy - Not too sure about him. He started out scummy with his spam and useless posts but later he starts to have a lot of good posts that I like and will bring up some good points. Wouldn't be surprised no matter how he flipped at this point. SL- Not too sure about him. Before the roleclaim he has looked real scummy for me. Him falsly roleclaiming can mean 3 things for me 1.He has retarded town play 2.He is mafia doing this to look town 3.He is a veteran trying to soak a bullet. I am leaning towards 1 or 3 but can't count out 2 with the rest of his filter. Strongest scum read is Fecal atm sooooo ##Vote Fecalfeast So his first townread is him backtracking on trying to scum Rels after the Scott mislynch because he claimed Vig. Townreads GB super hard, which feels strange now that he's trying to lynch him. Then there's that easy one-liner pocket read on me. And Farrah, another flipped town. 3/4 of these(if I include myself) are confirmed town to me. That means Vonthin is working with some pretty damn good information. Or perfect information, E.G. scum. Now the scumreads. Fecal is his "strongest" but it's only because of his oneliners and his scumread on Scott. But his next scumreads are HIS SCUMTEAM. Boxer and Ever. And the reads are explained in more depth than his "strongest" read, Fecalfeast. Now, if he really believed Ever was scum D1, and still has her on his scumlist, the town mindset here would be to not let your scumread live another day. Getting information on the second wagon is vital to figuring out the game and how/why the wagons formed on D1. But he doesn't want to actually bus his scummate Eversince unless he has to. Then 2 null reads on former scumreads because he knows he can't get them mislynched. And a vote on Fecal after all those sentences for why Boxerfred is scummy and why ES could be scum. NEXT. + Show Spoiler + On October 21 2015 12:44 Vonthin wrote: @FF So now that you are starting to get called out for your shit filter you actually start to play the game somewhat seriously and start to explain your cases by posting more than 1 sentence. Interesting. Also dropping my vote so fast by just looking at my last 2 games is a little weird, I mean people generally get better at the game more they play so won't their filters will be different? You noted the difference between game 1 and 2 but are content with my "shit filter" after seeing game 2 and this game are similar? Judging me town by comparing this game to a game that's from 2 years ago doesn't seem a good enough reason to drop your case on me. Feels pretty scummy to switch your cases so fast based off just this. I would like you to do what you do for this post for GB for everyone you think might be scum including myself since you thought my filter was scummy before. Anyways I said he was doing a good job leading town cause his posts most of the time controlled the flow of the game, he raises good points most of the time which leads to good discussions around them. As for 3 town being dead, 1 was from people tunneling the guy with hardly any posts and GB did try to talk people out of it by giving us other cases but not enough people listened. One was by a bad Vig Shot not really his fault there and the last one was the mafia nk which was unpreventable. Not really sure how you can blame him here. Just because a person did one thing that makes them look scummy doesn't make them insta scum. I mean looking at everyone's filters almost everyone has done at least one thing that makes them look scummy in my opinion. Also in the end he changed his vote to one of the bandwagons in the end after he couldn't get enough people to switch. I would like GB to clarify the dropping of his SL vote to Ever though, While I think that Ever was the best case for Day1 I don't understand him unvoting SL when he was quoting a FF post voting for someone? I will give you the drunk posts though, they don't look that great imo as gut feelings are never a good thing to base things on especially drunk ones. I don't want to get too much into this one but he's arguing with now conftown Fecalfeast for why he is scum and it feels like he's trying to convince FF that FF is scum. Weird. Then he starts talking about GB(remember, he wants to lynch him) and how he's leading town. But at the end of this post, he leaves a disclaimer about the drunk posts not looking good. He's leaving himself open to the GB mislynch if it becomes possible, like now. Next: + Show Spoiler + On October 21 2015 12:47 Vonthin wrote: I can't understand the grammar in this sentence. Are you saying the cop should read Ever then roleclaim and tell us the result? Or are you saying that they should've read Ever last night if they didn't. Anyways Cops should never roleclaim so early imo even if they get a right read the first night This is a very easy post to make if you know there is no Cop. The next post after this is YET ANOTHER AFK/inactivity excuse. And it was a lie. He said he would 100% be here that afternoon and evening and never showed up. I called him out on it. The next post is his response. + Show Spoiler + On October 23 2015 02:48 Vonthin wrote: @Shining, I will post my analysis of your filter and why I think you are town. As for my post saying I would be here last night, I initially had no plans to do anything but after my classes ended my friend invited me and some others to his place for dinner and to watch the Mets game and then I ended up crashing at his place. Good question that I think a town would ask. Another good question Here I see a towny trying to get a better read of Scott who barely posted anything Here he is trying to get more information out of me so he can get a better read on me, if he was scum I would feel he wouldn't try to get more info from me and instead just throw some shit at my previous posts. Here we have a good read on Farah, good read for Moosy at the time, and then asks Kelsier and GB questions to get better reads on them and more information out there which is always beneficial to town. The more information on peoples reads = easier to catch scum Brings up good points about Rels, who I thought was scummy at that time before his claim that he was vig. One of my favorite posts of his, brings up good points on Boxer being scum which I agree with 100% Majority of the rest of his filter is just calling out ES for being scum and most of his thoughts and questions to her are spot on and something a town would ask. He also doesn't have anything that jumps out to me and yells scum besides some of the fluff at the start of the game. I don't want to summarize this but it's basically a town case on me. With a bunch of quotes from my filter. At a time when a lot of people didn't think I was town. I'm looking at you, Rels and SL. This is the ultimate pocket attempt. He gives a reason for his AFK/inactivity and why he didn't come through on him saying he'd "100%" be around the night before. What strikes me as the worst, and outright scummy at this point, is that he went out of his way after supposedly reading the thread TO TOWNCASE ME. If he's town, and has 3 scumreads(See:FF,BF,ES), why is he wasting his time ignoring them and posting an entire TOWNCASE. It just doesn't make sense to me from a town perspective. Go find scum if you're town. Then just 1 minute later, he makes a baby list post: + Show Spoiler + On October 23 2015 02:49 Vonthin wrote: For my current scum reads: Moosy- Bunch of fluff all game, hardly any scum reading. Says shit like he is disinterested and would call doc to add to the chaos. Boxer/Ever- Same reasons as before SL- Filter still reads scum to me, don't care if people say thats how he played town in his last games. His roleclaim still confuses me as its either just him being retarded or him being scum to make him look town. FF- Still don't like his filter, it has gotten better though since my post and vote on him. ##unvote There goes that perfect information again. His Moosy read has now gone from scum to null to scum again. Now that we know Moosy is town, it's a prime scum move to get him mislynched. And he still has Fecal as scum, but unvotes him. Again, no sense from a town perspective. If you think someone is scum, you don't let them off the hook without good reasoning, not "still don't like his filter but it's gotten better since I voted him." And he still tries to mislynch SL, too. But the Boxer/Ever one liner is just bad. If you still have the SAME REASONS to scumread not one but TWO players, and nothing has changed, these should be your #1 priority. But he doesn't bother elaborating on these reads anymore and doesn't bother pushing or casing them. Because they are his scumteam. This is just for town credit if they get lynched. The next few posts are short so I won't quote them. He makes a paragraph about replacement talk, which is useless to figuring out the game. He then once again apologizes for his low activity and says he will be free for the next couple of days and will be more active. THIS POST WAS MADE ON OCTOBER 22ND ON THE 2ND PAGE OF HIS 4 PAGE FILTER. Next post is a one-liner vote for Moosy. "He's done nothing to make me think he is town so I am jumping on the bandwagon." Of course you are, it's a mislynch. In that same post, he asks Rels why he is scum besides his inactivity. He is so conscious of how he looks in thread and is looking to find out why he looks scum so he can change it. Then another one liner post. This is a complete change in tone and playstyle from the beginning of the game, probably because he is being scummed again. Instead of scumhunting, he is concerned with how he looks. So now that he knows he's being scummed again, it's time to prepare to bus a scummate again for town cred since he's the RB. Next post: + Show Spoiler + On October 23 2015 03:40 Vonthin wrote: Yeah this is shit, this isn't the first time you have posted and made reads without reading everything which in the end just mucks up the thread and makes you look scummier. So he STILL thinks BF is scum and making a shit post. BUT STILL NO PUSH. OR CASE. Next two posts are him asking SL why he wants to lynch Farrah(town, he would like this mislynch) before realizing it was already answered. But he says its not a good enough reason when there are better cases on FF and MD...both also town. None of these are BF or ES, so he's happy to not push or pursue a case of his own against them. Then some more talk about replacement, saying it could be Farrah. Then another gem: + Show Spoiler + On October 23 2015 04:57 Vonthin wrote: I think the MD has the highest chance of being scum but Boxer has a pretty high chance too imo so I will switch to him if we can get enough votes. Strong possibility of ES/FF/SL being scum but not as high as those 2 So he says MD and FF have the best cases agains them. Now it's MD and Boxer so he'll switch to BF if we get enough votes(aka, if he needs to bus). And ES/FF/SL are strong possibilities but not as strong as MD/BF. But his strongest scumreads after MD was FF/SL, not BF. Also, let's remember that he had ES as scum since Day 1. But he didn't bat an eye at all or get any kind of suspicious towards the Moosy lynch when ES voted on it. So N2, Rels says Vonthin is scum. Vonthin asks him why. Says he would've wasted his vote on FF otherwise. And he's been scumreading FF the entire game. So this next post is bad: + Show Spoiler + On October 23 2015 05:36 Vonthin wrote: Boxer is 100% scum. Drops his MD vote for FF for a BS reason of him thinking FF has been lurking because he didn't read the thread. Once he sees his argument for the FF vote is bad he doesn't switch the vote to MD or anyone else. He slightly defends MD but doesn't push for anyone else, if you want to defeat a bandwagon that close to the deadline you present a better case then the current one not leaving your vote on someone you thought was inactive when they wernt. Sounds like scum TMI to me trying to get town points. Boxer is 100% scum. The RB Vonthin is being scummed again during the night phase. He needs to bus. So if Boxer is scum, and FF is Vonthin's scumread, why is there no mention of both of them having FF as scum? He makes a good point about scum TMI but he doesn't realize BF is trying to lynch one of his top scumreads. And doesn't call FF town for it. Then in the next post there is another interaction between him and BF so once again Vonthin VS BF and both think the other is scum but there is no follow up, because Vonthin leaves for class after that and doesn't come back until the next day. + Show Spoiler + On October 24 2015 02:21 Vonthin wrote: If "Fara should read me based off my posting style" is not a good explanation than isn't every meta read from older games not an explanation either then? I don't think Shining is scum still, I think there is a good chance for Farah though. Boxer/Farah and not sure on last one for scum team So I'm still not scum. But he's running out of scum that isn't his scummates. So he backtracks and now one of his townreads Farrah, with no talk whatsoever, could be scum. Now his team is Boxer/Farah/?. Bus Boxer for town cred, get Farrah lynched, he wins. His next post is about how scummy ES's filter is and how one of Farrah and ES is scum. Setting up to bus in case ES is the lynch. But ES was always one of his scumreads so why the change in tone? But in his next post responding to Rels, he explains that Farrah could make a meta read on me. But she might be scum so why is he saying this? And a few posts later, this happens: + Show Spoiler + On October 24 2015 09:21 Vonthin wrote: Wow didn't know that If I started to read someone as town then they do scummy things I can't switch my opinion on them. You started off looking town by pushing the ES case which was solid but since then you have been doing less and less and just mainly tunneling on ES when you do something. After you realize ES isn't getting lynched you show disinterest and just do things like vote Moosy but don't say why besides that you hope he is scum. Then you have been dodging SL questions which he has asked you 7 times(I would still like you to answer it even with him dead as it is a good question). On top of all the posts that have been clogging up the thread with the you being able to read Shining thing which you could've ended in 1 fucking post explaining in depth why you can read him instead of just dragging it out. Anyways I don't want to lynch you today because I think ES looks just as bad as you imo and there is no way you guys are scum-mates so killing you would be a 50/50 of us losing if we choose poorly. Also I am slightly leaning towards ES being scum between you 2 because of the point I make in the next paragraph. Also if I was scum why would I kill SL when I was one of his main scum reads especially right before he just got shot, it would make me looks really bad. When no scum have been caught yet why would they kill someone that points right at them especially when there is a confirmed townie still alive unless they want people to think myself/shining/farah is scum so it will be an easy mislynch for them to win the game. Boxer has been flying under the radar for so long, same with GB as he as mainly just been sheeping Rels, going to look into GB's filter more later. Just look at Boxers filter and look at the points I made about the Moosy/FF voting and then his stupid post about how he thinks he would get NK'd when a confirmed townie is still in the game. If you guys think I am scum you need to be 100% on this and not just make a bandwagon because both KSC and SL thought I was scum. Read and analyze my filter and make a case on that. Wow, look how hard he tries and how large his post is once he gets a vote on him. Farrah made a great point here that Vonthin was TR her all game and once she came under suspicion, he flipped very easily. In this long post, most of his points are just parroting the points that SL and Rels made against Farrah. And attacking her TR on me when in an earlier recent post, he defended her to Rels, saying she could've made a meta read. It's a huge change in tone. Then he WIFOMs on the SL NK, saying it would incriminate him, since he was one of SL's main scumreads. Remember that he was one of Farrah's main scumreads, as well. Both are dead so both can't vote to lynch him. Then he flips on his GB TR because he's been flying under the radar and sheeping Rels. Then he encourages people to look at BF again. Then his team becomes GB/BF/either ES or Farrah. The next few posts are just him trying to get Boxer lynched for towncred, then GB. But this popped out. Bolded in next post: + Show Spoiler + On October 25 2015 04:34 Vonthin wrote: GB/Boxer are scum mates. I feel at this point Boxer is trying to separate himself from GB who has an excellent chance of getting lynched today. His case adding onto the points FF have made are the first case he has made this game that I don't see any scum motivation behind. GB thinks BF is town because he is trying hard to lynch him but not FF whose case and points on him are just as good as BF's. Before BF made this case on GB, GB thought he could be scum with the TMI on the MD lynch but now he is town for making a case against GB. Boxer also seems to be tunneling GB pretty hard when at this point you need to keep everyone in mind or else we lose. Third scummate is either ES or Farah. Still learning towards ES as Farah is finally starting to scumhunt and not just defending herself and ES still really hasn't done anything worthwhile besides coming in and piling onto the Farah suspicions and just quoting a GB post saying she doesn't like it. Lynch Boxer/GB today and tomorrow, get more reads from Farah and ES to determine which one of them is scum. Win game. So GB and Boxer are scummates. Boxer is distancing from GB because he could get lynched D3. But BF's case adding onto the points FF have made are the first case he has made this game that he doesn't see any scum motivation behind???? If he thinks BF is scum, the scum motivation is to bus his teammate for towncred. This is such an out-of-place sentence. And around this time, Fecalfeast made a post saying that he wouldn't be surprised if GB outed his team, plus the winning ML, to try to get the win. This is what happened here, except it is Vonthin that did it. He outed BF and ES in this post, with GB as the winning mislynch. Which is the exact situation we're in now. TLDR: Vonthin is scum. Lynch Vonthin. I'm like super tired and seeing cross-eyed so I won't go any further on post-by-post unless Fecalfeast or GB really want me to. But there a couple more points I wanted to make and address. We asked why Vonthin voted ES D1. I explained that ES hadn't voted Scott yet and had a vote to hammer Scott, which she did. At best, Scott gets mislynched. At worse, Vonthin gets town cred for bussing ES. We asked why Boxerfred CCd when GB was the leading lynch. This is because Farrah and a few of us really wanted to lynch Eversince. It was still very likely and very possible that we could've gotten the lynch onto Eversince instead, so BF made the risky to play to get us to go onto FF instead. And when it comes to BF/GB, WHY would you case your RB if you're just going to CC to save him? I really think GB was their mislynch and the opposition to the lynch and possibility of ES being lynched pushed BF into the bad play. AND Vonthin was the first to propose we lynch today before GB. FF suggested a no lynch. But Vonthin wants FF around even though he's conftown because during the night phase, FF said he was voting GB. And Rels was starting to question whether Vonthin or I could be scum. If we no lynch today, he's forced to either kill whoever will vote him or conftown FF who would mislynch GB, which he wants. ##Vote: Vonthin I am 100% convinced on this. If you have any doubts or questions, please ask me and I will explain as best I can. | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
On October 27 2015 01:28 FarahBlackwing wrote: Glowing bear is right in that it doesn't make a lot of sense in that situation with scum mate afk to push the other lynch when confirmed rels was staying put with the others. Hrm, will think on it after sushi On October 27 2015 04:43 FarahBlackwing wrote: The problem in this scenario is to save his partner he has to cc the person who hasn't claimed yet when the entire day he's done nothing but push gb If fecal hadn't of claims he has no one to cc doesn't make sense These posts are why Farrah died. She was seeing the logic in GB's EoD3 actions and would've ended up lynching Vonthin. | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zAHjn.gif)
it really seems he is struggling with the terrible start. I'm not sure what to think.
