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[M][N] Mini Mafia: The (kinda) Vanilla Experience - Page 164

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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gumshoe
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada3602 Posts
October 30 2015 00:28 GMT
#3261
On October 30 2015 08:43 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2015 08:36 gumshoe wrote:
On October 30 2015 08:19 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:31 Xatalos wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:21 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:16 Xatalos wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:13 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:10 Xatalos wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:07 GlowingBear wrote:
I want EVERY player to comment on these posts. This may be hammering the team.

On October 30 2015 06:32 GlowingBear wrote:
~ If ONEGU is MAFIA

Then gumshoe is 100% mafia.

1) Gumshoe started strong townreading me when I was under heavy suspicions. He took every piece of evidence he could find to call me town.
Then, today, he decided to vote me. His excuse was "I had to go" because all of his townies were suspecting me and he couldn't waste another day of discussion.
The problem here is: he was also scumreading Onegu way before and his townreads were putting ME and ONEGU as obvious scum partners. If he thought I was town before, wouldn't it be better if he asked his townreads to vote me since, well, THEY WERE ALL SCUMREADING ONEGU AND ONEGU WAS ALREADY A COUNTER WAGON?

This makes no sense under a town perspective. If I have someone I'm at least not sure is town or mafia and if I have someone that I am scumreading since way before, who would I vote? Obviously the scum read.

The excuse that his townreads were scumreading me and that they couldn't waste more discussion on me is bullshit because his townreads were also scumreading Onegu and whoever survives from the team they've made will also have to be discussed on later days. It simply doesn't make sense.

2) When I've confronted gumshoe, he decided to respond it with an UNVOTE.

WITH. AN. UNVOTE.

Let me tell you again.

His townreads had me and onegu as mafia. He decided to vote me who he thought was town. When I confront him, he gets convinced I shouldn't be voted. But instead of going against Onegu, he UNVOTES without voting HIS OWN SCUMREAD which is SHARED WITH HIS TOWNREADS. WHY?

3) Then he decides to vote me because he didn't like my tone.
This guy is simply saying that after ALL THE EVIDENCE, after ALL THE POSTS HE QUOTED FROM ME to call me town, he thinks I am mafia out of a TONE READ. Again, why not voting Onegu?

4) When I reach majority with 5 votes, he finally decided to vote Onegu. In other words, he only votes his scumread when his former townread is dying anyways.

There is no way gumshoe isn't mafia with Onegu.

But in the case he is...


~ If ONEGU is TOWN

Then gumshoe is 100% town because there is no way he does all these scummy things with both wagons being town.


On October 30 2015 06:40 GlowingBear wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 28 2015 14:55 gumshoe wrote:
##unvote

##vote Gb


sorry gb ) : I dont have a good way to clear you anymore, it's on you,



On October 28 2015 15:12 gumshoe wrote:
Basically theres no lynch I can propose that can clear your name like yams would, and theres no argument (that I havent already brought up) that would sway the people who want your head. I know it sucks to be the patzi but at this point your a liability to town ) :

If you can sway them to lynch onegu or hopeless or convince them why your town, by all means do that, but at this point I cant do that for you and I'm not going to be arguing with chrom and ritoky for the next 3 days when it is still possible that you could be mafia and im just blind.


On October 28 2015 15:28 gumshoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2015 15:26 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 28 2015 15:12 gumshoe wrote:
Basically theres no lynch I can propose that can clear your name like yams would, and theres no argument (that I havent already brought up) that would sway the people who want your head. I know it sucks to be the patzi but at this point your a liability to town ) :

If you can sway them to lynch onegu or hopeless or convince them why your town, by all means do that, but at this point I cant do that for you and I'm not going to be arguing with chrom and ritoky for the next 3 days when it is still possible that you could be mafia and im just blind.


So how do you read Onegu and Hopeless?


scum, what else? Scummier than you by far in my op.

On October 28 2015 15:48 gumshoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2015 15:29 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 28 2015 15:28 gumshoe wrote:
On October 28 2015 15:26 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 28 2015 15:12 gumshoe wrote:
Basically theres no lynch I can propose that can clear your name like yams would, and theres no argument (that I havent already brought up) that would sway the people who want your head. I know it sucks to be the patzi but at this point your a liability to town ) :

If you can sway them to lynch onegu or hopeless or convince them why your town, by all means do that, but at this point I cant do that for you and I'm not going to be arguing with chrom and ritoky for the next 3 days when it is still possible that you could be mafia and im just blind.


So how do you read Onegu and Hopeless?


scum, what else? Scummier than you by far in my op.


You'll also be discussing them in the next 3 days, so I don't understand why are you complying with lynching me now at this point.


Cause people I know are townies want you dead / : sure your way townier than hopeless and onegu, but nowhere near as townie as chrom or ritoky or bh or xat. So yeah, I dont paticularly care if you die cause I'm not lynching them / : and were going to have to lynch you eventually anyways. So unless theres some paticular reason why you need to live through the next 2 days when your probally gonna die on the third, I dont really care. Town wont be able to seriusly consider someone outside you three till you three are dead. so dems the braks.


On October 29 2015 02:22 gumshoe wrote:
##unvote

your move scummers : D


On October 30 2015 01:12 gumshoe wrote:
##Vote gb

I dont like the tone of his last posts / : the logic hes proposing is just so bad, paticularly bad considering hes one of the first to jump on your dick if you use "wifom'. I'm not sure a townie wouldn't realize how unconvincing they are with arguments like his.


Quotes for what I've wrote.



On October 30 2015 06:59 GlowingBear wrote:
In case I die
If you guys lynch Onegu tomorrow and he flips mafia: scum team is Onegu/gumshoe/BH

Gumshoe you guys know why.

BH because he was always bringing reasons to call me town but he was wishy washy throghout the game. Then he decided I am mafia with Onegu. When I bring the case on gumshoe, he does everything to dismiss it when the association clearly points out to gumshoe being mafia with Onegu. Here is the proof BH has been dismissing my case without even reading it:

+ Show Spoiler +
On October 30 2015 06:11 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2015 06:09 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 30 2015 06:08 Blazinghand wrote:
On October 30 2015 06:05 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 30 2015 06:01 gumshoe wrote:
On October 30 2015 05:54 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok, so it seems I'm dead today.

Some thoughts for you:

IF Onegu is mafia, gumshoe is always mafia with him. It should be pretty telling to you that gumshoe was strong townreading me, then decided to vote me to follow his townreads, but when I confronted him he decided to simply "Unvote" while still scumreading Onegu. Then he decided to vote me again over TONE LOL. Now he is voting Onegu, but just when the lynch is secured on me (he voted Onegu when I've reached majority with 5 votes). This is fucking scummy.

BUT if Onegu turns out to be town, gumshoe is always town because there is no reason to do so
many scummy moves when the main two wagons are town.

I will expand on this in a couple of minutes. But for me, gumshoe and Onegu are always mafia. I don't know how Vivax could fit in this team, tho.


i am trying to save your life right now you ungrateful shmuk : P chills out.


No you're not, and you're mafia. If for some reason I miraculously survibe and Onegu flips red, I hope you are prepared.


haha what?? are you serious

gumshoe is top town second only to me. he's been solving this game and working with people, writing cases and analyzing in a SUPER on point way (except with that weird rayn kill rationalization) all game. no way anyone can keep that up as scum


Did you read what I've brought on him?


not really, I don't feel like lynching him (and there's no way it's happening today). Furthemore, you're probably scum. I've mostly been interested in getting 1gu lynched but I'll take a look at it overnight and make thoughts if you really care. That's a promise. I can't even get how he'd be scum and do all this good work, but maybe your case explains that. It's certainly no loss to me to do some extra reading, I think we got this wrapped up like a chicken burrito


On October 30 2015 06:39 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2015 06:37 Xatalos wrote:
On October 30 2015 06:32 GlowingBear wrote:
PLEASE READ

~ If ONEGU is MAFIA

Then gumshoe is 100% mafia.

1) Gumshoe started strong townreading me when I was under heavy suspicions. He took every piece of evidence he could find to call me town.
Then, today, he decided to vote me. His excuse was "I had to go" because all of his townies were suspecting me and he couldn't waste another day of discussion.
The problem here is: he was also scumreading Onegu way before and his townreads were putting ME and ONEGU as obvious scum partners. If he thought I was town before, wouldn't it be better if he asked his townreads to vote me since, well, THEY WERE ALL SCUMREADING ONEGU AND ONEGU WAS ALREADY A COUNTER WAGON?

This makes no sense under a town perspective. If I have someone I'm at least not sure is town or mafia and if I have someone that I am scumreading since way before, who would I vote? Obviously the scum read.

The excuse that his townreads were scumreading me and that they couldn't waste more discussion on me is bullshit because his townreads were also scumreading Onegu and whoever survives from the team they've made will also have to be discussed on later days. It simply doesn't make sense.

2) When I've confronted gumshoe, he decided to respond it with an UNVOTE.

WITH. AN. UNVOTE.

Let me tell you again.

His townreads had me and onegu as mafia. He decided to vote me who he thought was town. When I confront him, he gets convinced I shouldn't be voted. But instead of going against Onegu, he UNVOTES without voting HIS OWN SCUMREAD which is SHARED WITH HIS TOWNREADS. WHY?

3) Then he decides to vote me because he didn't like my tone.
This guy is simply saying that after ALL THE EVIDENCE, after ALL THE POSTS HE QUOTED FROM ME to call me town, he thinks I am mafia out of a TONE READ. Again, why not voting Onegu?

4) When I reach majority with 5 votes, he finally decided to vote Onegu. In other words, he only votes his scumread when his former townread is dying anyways.

There is no way gumshoe isn't mafia with Onegu.

But in the case he is...


~ If ONEGU is TOWN

Then gumshoe is 100% town because there is no way he does all these scummy things with both wagons being town.


Well if gumshoe ends up being scum, he really deserves a nomination for best plays of 2015 and the win :D


Don't pay attention to this but if 1G flips scum: GB and 1G are scum and Gummie is town, GB trying to cast suspicion on Gummie for some reaosn

Of course this is all unflipped association that should not be paid attention to


On October 30 2015 06:43 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2015 06:42 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 30 2015 06:39 Blazinghand wrote:
On October 30 2015 06:37 Xatalos wrote:
On October 30 2015 06:32 GlowingBear wrote:
PLEASE READ

~ If ONEGU is MAFIA

Then gumshoe is 100% mafia.

1) Gumshoe started strong townreading me when I was under heavy suspicions. He took every piece of evidence he could find to call me town.
Then, today, he decided to vote me. His excuse was "I had to go" because all of his townies were suspecting me and he couldn't waste another day of discussion.
The problem here is: he was also scumreading Onegu way before and his townreads were putting ME and ONEGU as obvious scum partners. If he thought I was town before, wouldn't it be better if he asked his townreads to vote me since, well, THEY WERE ALL SCUMREADING ONEGU AND ONEGU WAS ALREADY A COUNTER WAGON?

This makes no sense under a town perspective. If I have someone I'm at least not sure is town or mafia and if I have someone that I am scumreading since way before, who would I vote? Obviously the scum read.

The excuse that his townreads were scumreading me and that they couldn't waste more discussion on me is bullshit because his townreads were also scumreading Onegu and whoever survives from the team they've made will also have to be discussed on later days. It simply doesn't make sense.

2) When I've confronted gumshoe, he decided to respond it with an UNVOTE.

WITH. AN. UNVOTE.

Let me tell you again.

His townreads had me and onegu as mafia. He decided to vote me who he thought was town. When I confront him, he gets convinced I shouldn't be voted. But instead of going against Onegu, he UNVOTES without voting HIS OWN SCUMREAD which is SHARED WITH HIS TOWNREADS. WHY?

3) Then he decides to vote me because he didn't like my tone.
This guy is simply saying that after ALL THE EVIDENCE, after ALL THE POSTS HE QUOTED FROM ME to call me town, he thinks I am mafia out of a TONE READ. Again, why not voting Onegu?

4) When I reach majority with 5 votes, he finally decided to vote Onegu. In other words, he only votes his scumread when his former townread is dying anyways.

There is no way gumshoe isn't mafia with Onegu.

But in the case he is...


~ If ONEGU is TOWN

Then gumshoe is 100% town because there is no way he does all these scummy things with both wagons being town.


Well if gumshoe ends up being scum, he really deserves a nomination for best plays of 2015 and the win :D


Don't pay attention to this but if 1G flips scum: GB and 1G are scum and Gummie is town, GB trying to cast suspicion on Gummie for some reaosn

Of course this is all unflipped association that should not be paid attention to


The problem is: I'm talking about flipped association. Care to read what I asked you to read?
Point out what is wrong on what I've brought.


yeah yeah chill out bro we're lynching 1G today anyways. Almost certainly he's gonna flip scum, and then you're gonna make some kind of asslike push on Gumshoe in an attempt to "look townie", then we lynch you and H1 and win the game



I could be wrong on BH though and be OMGUSing right now. But I find hard to believe he would try to dismiss my "please read" so hard + I find hard to believe he would believe that day3 wagons were both mafia with no other scum trying to form a wagon on a townie.


Could you explain how scum gumshoe does the work to save you in the end? If he actually was scum, he would see that you're right, and you'd be a huge danger tomorrow. Instead, he chooses to bus scum Onegu???!!!


Onegu could hammer if it wasn't for ritoky????
Bussing Onegu delivers town cred (like the one you're giving gumshoe now)?
Bussing Onegu is okay because he was already looking bad and he would die at some point anyway??

I will counter-question you:

Why would you vote on A TOWN READ instead of a SCUM READ?
Simply as this.


Hm... Well, honestly, gumshoe had already said repeatedly that you were more of a null and unreliable regardless - forced lynch, kind of. I also entertained your lynch many times even though I thought you were more likely town than Onegu. But I'm glad he flipped scum now and we extended our playtime. Harder for scum to endure the extended pressure.


MY

GOD

XATALOS.

MY GOD.

Did you read what I've wrote? I mean, at all?


Didn't really bother reading it yet when gumshoe is so obviously town this game...


Xata.

Go.

And read.


can you please not force us to waste our mislynch on you? Also read this

Your totally right / : what I displayed yesterday regarding the lynch was total apathy, which is a trait scum show particularly when the lynch is between two townies (example bieng onegu wasting his lynch day 2, because it was probably a win win for scum)

The key difference is I was in the opposite position, I felt no matter who died yesterday, it would be good for town. Gb, who was the townier of the two from my view, was dividing town and I figured his death would be healthy for the circus, and I might have even been wrong about his alignment like I was about yamato / : so there was that to hope for as well. Whereas onegu was almost for sure scum, but we would probally get around lynching eventually.

Assuming we would get around to killing onegu at some point, it would be better to lynch gb now regardless his alignment to unify town as soon as possible.

I only really started to care when the slightest potential arose that we might never lynch onegu (that would be you : P) and I felt it was now or never seeing as someone against onegu would probably die after the lynch on gb / who had and still has a good shot at bieng town)

So in effect, I basically was showcasing several scum traits day 3,( apathy, coldness and calculation). Gb is probably honing in on those / : which I cannot blame him for as they are in fact scum traits, its just in this case mah scuminess is to the benefit of town : P so dont hold it against me.


as an adendum to that, I understand how important your life is to you this game, but it literally means nothing to me / : so yes, I will kill you in a heart beat if town cant seem to function with you around.


whoa chill out dude. if GB is shitting up the thread and causing problems, yes, it's reasonable to lycnh him, but don't do it if we think he's town, yes? We only have one mislynch of room right now so we should use it wisely


I did say please first : P unnecessary hostility aside, I would totes lynch vivax before him.
gumshoe bullshitting at 120%~~Prplz
gumshoe
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada3602 Posts
October 30 2015 00:30 GMT
#3262
On October 30 2015 09:26 GlowingBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2015 08:43 Blazinghand wrote:
On October 30 2015 08:36 gumshoe wrote:
On October 30 2015 08:19 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:31 Xatalos wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:21 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:16 Xatalos wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:13 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:10 Xatalos wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:07 GlowingBear wrote:
I want EVERY player to comment on these posts. This may be hammering the team.

[quote]

[quote]

[quote]

I could be wrong on BH though and be OMGUSing right now. But I find hard to believe he would try to dismiss my "please read" so hard + I find hard to believe he would believe that day3 wagons were both mafia with no other scum trying to form a wagon on a townie.


Could you explain how scum gumshoe does the work to save you in the end? If he actually was scum, he would see that you're right, and you'd be a huge danger tomorrow. Instead, he chooses to bus scum Onegu???!!!


Onegu could hammer if it wasn't for ritoky????
Bussing Onegu delivers town cred (like the one you're giving gumshoe now)?
Bussing Onegu is okay because he was already looking bad and he would die at some point anyway??

I will counter-question you:

Why would you vote on A TOWN READ instead of a SCUM READ?
Simply as this.


Hm... Well, honestly, gumshoe had already said repeatedly that you were more of a null and unreliable regardless - forced lynch, kind of. I also entertained your lynch many times even though I thought you were more likely town than Onegu. But I'm glad he flipped scum now and we extended our playtime. Harder for scum to endure the extended pressure.


MY

GOD

XATALOS.

MY GOD.

Did you read what I've wrote? I mean, at all?


Didn't really bother reading it yet when gumshoe is so obviously town this game...


Xata.

Go.

And read.


can you please not force us to waste our mislynch on you? Also read this

Your totally right / : what I displayed yesterday regarding the lynch was total apathy, which is a trait scum show particularly when the lynch is between two townies (example bieng onegu wasting his lynch day 2, because it was probably a win win for scum)

The key difference is I was in the opposite position, I felt no matter who died yesterday, it would be good for town. Gb, who was the townier of the two from my view, was dividing town and I figured his death would be healthy for the circus, and I might have even been wrong about his alignment like I was about yamato / : so there was that to hope for as well. Whereas onegu was almost for sure scum, but we would probally get around lynching eventually.

Assuming we would get around to killing onegu at some point, it would be better to lynch gb now regardless his alignment to unify town as soon as possible.

I only really started to care when the slightest potential arose that we might never lynch onegu (that would be you : P) and I felt it was now or never seeing as someone against onegu would probably die after the lynch on gb / who had and still has a good shot at bieng town)

So in effect, I basically was showcasing several scum traits day 3,( apathy, coldness and calculation). Gb is probably honing in on those / : which I cannot blame him for as they are in fact scum traits, its just in this case mah scuminess is to the benefit of town : P so dont hold it against me.


as an adendum to that, I understand how important your life is to you this game, but it literally means nothing to me / : so yes, I will kill you in a heart beat if town cant seem to function with you around.


whoa chill out dude. if GB is shitting up the thread and causing problems, yes, it's reasonable to lycnh him, but don't do it if we think he's town, yes? We only have one mislynch of room right now so we should use it wisely


I'm not shitting up the thread, I'm trying to have people reading an ironclad case they are ignoring by default.

Whatever, I will vote gumshoe tomorrow and peace out and you decide whatever you want to do. I've put all my remaining energy into trying to show you that gumshoe is mafia, I'm not willing to do more. GG.


See ya tommorow best buddy : D
gumshoe bullshitting at 120%~~Prplz
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 00:48 GMT
#3263
gumshoe and GlowingBear, best friends forever
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
October 30 2015 01:29 GMT
#3264
On October 30 2015 08:59 Xatalos wrote:
bah... EBWOP

lynch hopeless();

if (hopeless == scum) {
lynch GlowingBear AND Vivax;
else {
lynch GlowingBear AND ritoky;
}

That should end the game, most likely?


except the part where i am confirmed town. how does it feel to be less confirmed than me? must be rough.

#confirmedlyfe
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
October 30 2015 01:54 GMT
#3265
Alright so I read the lynch stuff in detail now, does anyone feel like this makes GB/Hopeless less likely as a team?
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
October 30 2015 02:09 GMT
#3266
Here's every read Onegu gave on GB:

+ Show Spoiler +

On October 25 2015 09:42 Onegu wrote:
Ill read the GB case in a bit. He has been really null for me.

On October 26 2015 23:44 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2015 23:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No, explain.
You literally said "yamato is lying because i know he was not working and instead playing DOTA with me."

If this has to do with this mafia game he is mafia for you.
If not, why point that out?



No I never said he was lying. He never said he was working. I point it out because sometimes I dont know if he is working or not. I do not know his work schedule.

My point was out of the 2 wagons I would lynch yamato over GB because of activity. And normally that doesnt work for yamato you cannot make a read off of him because of activity because he is working. But this game I know he wasnt working.

This doesnt mean yamato is my preferred lynch, he looked really townie day 1.


On October 26 2015 23:57 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2015 23:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On October 26 2015 23:54 Onegu wrote:
On October 26 2015 23:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On October 26 2015 23:03 Onegu wrote:
So BH says I am scum because I come into the thread before I sleep to make a post. A post about something I have been thinking about. Then he brings something up. I say ok yeah maybe you are right we can discuss it before I vote him. Then I go to sleep because it is 2am local time.

And BH know that I just peace out as both alignments. Moreso as town so that should be NAI to him. Would lynch BH.

Out of the 2 wagons right now I could lynch either of them. Would lean more to Yamato as he looked really townie day one but then did nothing n1 and d2. This matches up to his scum meta as just fucking off and doing nothing. And I know he wasnt working because I was playing Dota with him.

Onegu i want a straight answer.
What does the bolded & underlined part refer to?



It refers to I was playing Dota with him last night.

I dont get what you are looking for here rayn.

You cant do activity reads on Yamato because he works alot. But this game I know he has free time. That effects my read on him here.

but you call him mafia for it?


No I am not calling him mafia rayn. I am null on him. I am null on GB. They are the 2 current wagons. I gave my thoughts on the wagons. I said if I had to choose from the wagons I would vote Yamato.

On October 27 2015 00:21 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2015 00:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On October 26 2015 23:54 Onegu wrote:
On October 26 2015 23:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On October 26 2015 23:03 Onegu wrote:
So BH says I am scum because I come into the thread before I sleep to make a post. A post about something I have been thinking about. Then he brings something up. I say ok yeah maybe you are right we can discuss it before I vote him. Then I go to sleep because it is 2am local time.

And BH know that I just peace out as both alignments. Moreso as town so that should be NAI to him. Would lynch BH.

Out of the 2 wagons right now I could lynch either of them. Would lean more to Yamato as he looked really townie day one but then did nothing n1 and d2. This matches up to his scum meta as just fucking off and doing nothing. And I know he wasnt working because I was playing Dota with him.

Onegu i want a straight answer.
What does the bolded & underlined part refer to?



It refers to I was playing Dota with him last night.

I dont get what you are looking for here rayn.


Why do you post the bolded shit if you think it has to do with his alignment?



Becuase it effects my read on him. That is why I would lynch him over GB.

But I am waiting for you to tell me why GB is scum.

On October 30 2015 01:32 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2015 00:44 Xatalos wrote:
Dunno... It just feels like he throws scum/townreads around too casually. This Xatalos/hopeless thing now too... Ignoring rayn's scumreads on GB/ritoky.... And instead pushing us two.. Why?



The main reason is because I am scum reading you two more. GB needs looked at also, but I feel multiple people scum read GB maybe he shoots rayn, but only rayn and myself were scum reading you. Rayn had the clout that I dont to actually lynch you.



And here's most of what he says about Hopeless (I omitted a bunch of "lynch hopeless" posts):
+ Show Spoiler +

On October 24 2015 02:55 Onegu wrote:
...

Hopeless said he was going to lynch me for being useless I told him good luck, he didnt bite at the bait. Not looking good. IE rels in rayns game.

...

On October 25 2015 05:48 Onegu wrote:
...
Could also lynch hopeless here. Like I baited him and he did nothing about it and just went after easy lynches even after threatening me. His reads seem to just go along with thread sentiment.

...

On October 26 2015 14:27 Onegu wrote:
Ok I take back my read on Gumshoe. He looks really townie now.

I think I like a hopeless lynch at this point. He is just lurking which is with the way the thread was and has been imploding I cant shake the feeling there is at least 1 scum in the lurkers if not 2 or even 3. Plus I did a test for him and he failed it hard. He said he would vote me if I did nothing and I basically told him I look forward to it and he did nothing about it. There are a few other things like his votes and reasons. I will go more into it tomorrow.

Ritoky could also easily be mafia as a lurker, plus his thing following his towniest read and that read was BH.

Ill get into more details tomorrow.

But for now.

##Vote: Hopeless

On October 30 2015 01:48 Onegu wrote:
That vote from hopeless on Xata is so fucking random, If he is going to be around why use a placeholder and why Xata. Then he drops a vote on GB... Why does this give me the heebie jeebies that this is two town wagons...

Can we please vote hopeless?

##Vote: Hopeless



So my initial reaction to this is that Onegu never giving a read at all on GB looks really really bad. I don't think this says much about Hopeless at all, it could be Onegu pushing an easy target or it could be him putting pressure on his scumbuddy that's not playing (and wasn't really up for lynch any of those days).
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
October 30 2015 02:10 GMT
#3267
If GB is somehow town, then I think it pretty much has to be Hopeless and Vivax. If GB is mafia, then I don't see any reason it shouldn't be Hopeless still.
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 02:18 GMT
#3268
Maybe GB first would make sense... It would provide more information than hopeless, I think...

But it's not like it matters greatly.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 02:19 GMT
#3269
In any case we prolly just lynch GB/hopeless next and discuss possible outsider scums in the meanwhile.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 02:22 GMT
#3270
But yeah... Especially if GB is town, ritoky can hardly be scum.... If GB is scum, it's still somewhat feasible.. If GB is town, Vivax has surprisingly high chances of being scum... If GB is scum, it's not very likely for Vivax to be scum (why expose yourself like that to save GB if both are town?)
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
October 30 2015 02:22 GMT
#3271
Yep, I agree with that course of action. I'm okay with Hopeless first if people really want it.
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 02:22 GMT
#3272
*if both are scum

*to save Onegu
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 02:23 GMT
#3273
I'm tired...
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 02:23 GMT
#3274
gn
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
October 30 2015 02:24 GMT
#3275
If GB is mafia but Hopeless is town then I think I'd still be on Vivax? That seems so unlikely to me though, but everyone else is so town lol.
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
October 30 2015 02:26 GMT
#3276
On October 30 2015 11:23 Xatalos wrote:
gn

gn, you just reminded me I should probably do work instead of mafia for a bit
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
October 30 2015 07:20 GMT
#3277
So anyways let me tell you why I am confirmed town if you haven't figured it out, and why BH is 99% confirmed town.


Day 1: A shennany is attempted by BH onto Onegu. ritoky follows onto Onegu. BH flips back last minute since not enough people followed. ritoky is pooping and doesn't swap back with BH staying on Onegu. BH was legitimately attempting to get Onegu lynched, it wasn't a for fakesies shennany, and I was sheeping 100% of the time cuz BH town so sexy. Town is lynched.

Day 2: I push GB with chroma endlessly. We desperately try to get him lynched. Last minute BH tries to pull shennanies and no1 follows him. Town is lynched.

Day 3: BH beats me with a wrench and GB gives me puppy dog eyes and I give up my read; make the flip and hammer mafia Onegu.

BH led shennanies onto mafia day 1 against his RNG interests and drove the mafia lynch train day 3. If you can't see why he is 99% town from the above, get your eyes checked.

Now for me and why I am confirmed. It is very simple, if I were mafia I am playing against my win condition. The ONLY possible scenario you can believe I am mafia in is me/onegu/GB because I hammered a mafia. The only way I don't become confirmed from this is if it was mafia vs mafia. But then you go look at my voting record. If I were to be on a team with onegu and GB, that would mean I have ONLY VOTED ON MY PARTNERS ALL GAME. I love me a good bus, but that is playing against win con. Further I actively attempted to get at least 1 of them lynched. I shennanied onto 1 of them twice and tried to force shennanies on the other once. You can't get more opposed than that from a pure voting standpoint. There's no possibility of me/onegu/gb as a team and thus there's no possibility I am mafia.

100% confirmed town lyfe. it's hard out here for a pimp.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21972 Posts
October 30 2015 09:29 GMT
#3278
I've started to doubt gumshoe since he started planting the idea that I'm mafia as opposed to people who are competent at reading me.

I was assuming his posting style made him town all game long but given that 2 mafia are planning the endgame now and he has started to doing all sorts of shady shit, I'm reevaluating.

Take a look at this post, it's from D1. When you look at the votecounts in question you will notice that nobody ever had a chance to kill Onegu cause marv and rayn were both on the slam wagon with huge support from others.

Point I'm making is that this read is weird given the information we have now, and suggests gumshoe had knowledge of how to read people around Onegu's alignment. Another example: When he went all nuts and Chrom-defender after I told Chrom that if he wanted Onegu's reads he could simply look them up.


On October 24 2015 11:15 gumshoe wrote:
Ritoky's switch onto Onegu last second makes very little sense as scum, if Onegu is town and gets bussed last sec, Ritoky looks terrible. If Onegue is scum, he just helped kill his teamate 0_0 seems like a dumb and unnecessary risk when town is already fixated on slam.

It's possible Ritoky was super confident Bh's lynch wouldn't go through, but then why bother at all? Just to distance himself from the slam lynch? Could backfire huge if Onegu actually did get lynched (would look like a last second buss off of Ritoky's buddy slam)


As you will soon see, neither was ritoky's switch "last second" (it happened 12 min prior lynch), nor does it make sense for gumshoe to make the assumption that ritoky is town cause if Onegu was town ritoky would look terrible.

And I think this is a nail in the coffin type of argument already, cause now I'm explaining it like you're 12.

First of all, he's exaggerating the weight of what ritoky really did: Last second switch, killig Onegu when the majority was on Slam all the time and didn't have any intention to switch.
Second, he's making this argument in which he spews Onegu's alignment (and ritoky's with the entire post).

Second, he's using this logic:

"Since ritoky would look terrible if Onegu flipped town, he is town".

at a time where he couldn't possibly be certain on Onegu's alignment, and also wasn't in his scumreads posts.
He literally assumed 100 % that Onegu was mafia when making this post.

Here the relevant votes, for display:

+ Show Spoiler +
On October 24 2015 05:30 Rels wrote:
Day 1 Vote Count


Alakaslam (9): raynpelikoneet, raynpelikoneet, marvellosity, Hopeless1der, yamato77, Chromatically, Vivax, Blazinghand, gumshoe, ritoky
raynpelikoneet (4): Blazinghand, Xatalos, Vivax, Hopeless1der, Xatalos, Alakaslam, GlowingBear, Onegu
Vivax (0): gumshoe, GlowingBear, Onegu
ritoky (0): Chromatically, raynpelikoneet, raynpelikoneet, gumshoe
GlowingBear (0): marvellosity, yamato77, Vivax, raynpelikoneet, marvellosity, Vivax
Chromatically (0): Xatalos, Vivax
Onegu (0): Onegu, gumshoe
Hopeless1der (0): gumshoe
marvellosity (0): GlowingBear
Xatalos (0): Chromatically

Looks like it's time to sack Alakaslam for being a traitor!
Day 1 ends in at 21:00 GMT (+00:00).

The quality control list is here.
The automated list counter is here.
Only votes on this list will be counted.

Please mind the deadline as failure to vote will result in a modkill.



On October 24 2015 05:45 Blazinghand wrote:
##unvote
##vote Onegu


On October 24 2015 05:47 Xatalos wrote:
##Vote Onegu


On October 24 2015 05:48 ritoky wrote:
##unvote
##vote Onegu


On October 24 2015 06:03 Rels wrote:
Final Day 1 Vote Count


Alakaslam (8): raynpelikoneet, raynpelikoneet, marvellosity, Hopeless1der, yamato77, Chromatically, Vivax, Blazinghand, gumshoe, ritoky, Blazinghand, Blazinghand
raynpelikoneet (3): Blazinghand, Xatalos, Vivax, Hopeless1der, Xatalos, Alakaslam, GlowingBear, Onegu
Onegu (2): Onegu, gumshoe, Blazinghand, Xatalos, ritoky, Xatalos
ritoky (0): Chromatically, raynpelikoneet, raynpelikoneet, gumshoe
GlowingBear (0): marvellosity, yamato77, Vivax, raynpelikoneet, marvellosity, Vivax
Chromatically (0): Xatalos, Vivax
Vivax (0): gumshoe, GlowingBear, Onegu
Hopeless1der (0): gumshoe
marvellosity (0): GlowingBear
Xatalos (0): Chromatically

We have discovered Alakaslam to be a chocolate saboteur!

[/QUOTE]
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21972 Posts
October 30 2015 09:37 GMT
#3279
On October 30 2015 09:28 gumshoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2015 08:43 Blazinghand wrote:
On October 30 2015 08:36 gumshoe wrote:
On October 30 2015 08:19 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:31 Xatalos wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:21 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:16 Xatalos wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:13 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:10 Xatalos wrote:
On October 30 2015 07:07 GlowingBear wrote:
I want EVERY player to comment on these posts. This may be hammering the team.

[quote]

[quote]

[quote]

I could be wrong on BH though and be OMGUSing right now. But I find hard to believe he would try to dismiss my "please read" so hard + I find hard to believe he would believe that day3 wagons were both mafia with no other scum trying to form a wagon on a townie.


Could you explain how scum gumshoe does the work to save you in the end? If he actually was scum, he would see that you're right, and you'd be a huge danger tomorrow. Instead, he chooses to bus scum Onegu???!!!


Onegu could hammer if it wasn't for ritoky????
Bussing Onegu delivers town cred (like the one you're giving gumshoe now)?
Bussing Onegu is okay because he was already looking bad and he would die at some point anyway??

I will counter-question you:

Why would you vote on A TOWN READ instead of a SCUM READ?
Simply as this.


Hm... Well, honestly, gumshoe had already said repeatedly that you were more of a null and unreliable regardless - forced lynch, kind of. I also entertained your lynch many times even though I thought you were more likely town than Onegu. But I'm glad he flipped scum now and we extended our playtime. Harder for scum to endure the extended pressure.


MY

GOD

XATALOS.

MY GOD.

Did you read what I've wrote? I mean, at all?


Didn't really bother reading it yet when gumshoe is so obviously town this game...


Xata.

Go.

And read.


can you please not force us to waste our mislynch on you? Also read this

Your totally right / : what I displayed yesterday regarding the lynch was total apathy, which is a trait scum show particularly when the lynch is between two townies (example bieng onegu wasting his lynch day 2, because it was probably a win win for scum)

The key difference is I was in the opposite position, I felt no matter who died yesterday, it would be good for town. Gb, who was the townier of the two from my view, was dividing town and I figured his death would be healthy for the circus, and I might have even been wrong about his alignment like I was about yamato / : so there was that to hope for as well. Whereas onegu was almost for sure scum, but we would probally get around lynching eventually.

Assuming we would get around to killing onegu at some point, it would be better to lynch gb now regardless his alignment to unify town as soon as possible.

I only really started to care when the slightest potential arose that we might never lynch onegu (that would be you : P) and I felt it was now or never seeing as someone against onegu would probably die after the lynch on gb / who had and still has a good shot at bieng town)

So in effect, I basically was showcasing several scum traits day 3,( apathy, coldness and calculation). Gb is probably honing in on those / : which I cannot blame him for as they are in fact scum traits, its just in this case mah scuminess is to the benefit of town : P so dont hold it against me.


as an adendum to that, I understand how important your life is to you this game, but it literally means nothing to me / : so yes, I will kill you in a heart beat if town cant seem to function with you around.


whoa chill out dude. if GB is shitting up the thread and causing problems, yes, it's reasonable to lycnh him, but don't do it if we think he's town, yes? We only have one mislynch of room right now so we should use it wisely


I did say please first : P unnecessary hostility aside, I would totes lynch vivax before him.


Ahhh that's the plan.
Tough luck cause we'll just scrap the puppy eyes, sheep marv and rayn post death, and lynch a guy who only started posting 1h before deadline probably bussing his entire team.

And then you can try to win solo.
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21972 Posts
October 30 2015 09:55 GMT
#3280
Actually screw that maybe GB is town :/ , going over his D1 and D2 posts now I don't really see him sneaking around Onegu much like gumshoe did, quite the opposite really.

That means gummy and some other dude are mafia.
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