• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 14:37
CET 20:37
KST 04:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
What's the best tug of war? The Grack before Christmas Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2?
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
How soO Began His ProGaming Dreams BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA) BW General Discussion FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Mechabellum Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How Does UI/UX Design Influence User Trust? Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2104 users

[M][N] Mini Mafia: The (kinda) Vanilla Experience - Page 165

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 163 164 165 166 167 196 Next
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
October 30 2015 10:25 GMT
#3281
i just stopped by cuz kid in middle of night. didn't really read much of what you posted there vivax cuz i don't trust my reading comprehension atm.

generally speaking you have made your way to the middle/lower end of my PoE because 1) your game investment and investment in the last lynch feels like it has gone down over time 2) you didn't lynch mafia 3) your tinfoil/crackpot theories have felt contained/not committed to.

a lot of that is my perception of you over the course of the game, but something about perception, reality, and their relationship.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
October 30 2015 10:27 GMT
#3282
that was @vivax btw

i am tired.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
22106 Posts
October 30 2015 10:38 GMT
#3283
On October 30 2015 19:25 ritoky wrote:
i just stopped by cuz kid in middle of night. didn't really read much of what you posted there vivax cuz i don't trust my reading comprehension atm.

generally speaking you have made your way to the middle/lower end of my PoE because 1) your game investment and investment in the last lynch feels like it has gone down over time 2) you didn't lynch mafia 3) your tinfoil/crackpot theories have felt contained/not committed to.

a lot of that is my perception of you over the course of the game, but something about perception, reality, and their relationship.


I tinfoil when I feel it's necessary, sometimes only late in the game, you should know that from Guardians of the Galaxy when I only scumread universally townread Toad the night I got killed.

My game investment is as high as it can be when my mafia meta is to have large posting gaps during a day. I feel I have been posting very consistently during the day.

And if you base your game around who lynches mafia and who doesn't without looking at it in detail you don't know how this game works.

And I also feel you should know your place when marv, rayn and yamato all TR me throughout their lives, people I've been playing with for several years.
Cause not only are they confirmed town, they're also not as new around here as you are and I figure that their reads are worth more than yours.

This is probably going to kinda piss you off but it's how it is. I keep reading their filters as well.
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
October 30 2015 10:43 GMT
#3284
On October 30 2015 19:38 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2015 19:25 ritoky wrote:
i just stopped by cuz kid in middle of night. didn't really read much of what you posted there vivax cuz i don't trust my reading comprehension atm.

generally speaking you have made your way to the middle/lower end of my PoE because 1) your game investment and investment in the last lynch feels like it has gone down over time 2) you didn't lynch mafia 3) your tinfoil/crackpot theories have felt contained/not committed to.

a lot of that is my perception of you over the course of the game, but something about perception, reality, and their relationship.


I tinfoil when I feel it's necessary, sometimes only late in the game, you should know that from Guardians of the Galaxy when I only scumread universally townread Toad the night I got killed.

My game investment is as high as it can be when my mafia meta is to have large posting gaps during a day. I feel I have been posting very consistently during the day.

And if you base your game around who lynches mafia and who doesn't without looking at it in detail you don't know how this game works.

And I also feel you should know your place when marv, rayn and yamato all TR me throughout their lives, people I've been playing with for several years.
Cause not only are they confirmed town, they're also not as new around here as you are and I figure that their reads are worth more than yours.

This is probably going to kinda piss you off but it's how it is. I keep reading their filters as well.


Not really, I am historically dogshit as town outside of day 1. On day 1 I am legit godly, but otherwise I am crappy as town. I mean look, I just lynched against what I thought was right and hit mafia, that's how little faith I have in my own town capabilities.

The rayn/marv/yamato defense won't work sorry. They all TR onegu and he was mafia, I invalidate that completely. Maybe my perception of you is altered cuz you post while I sleep a lot of the times.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
October 30 2015 10:49 GMT
#3285
Alright vivax, I have a question for you. I am going to provoke your thoughts, then probably pass out before you finish your response cuz it's almost 4am.

What do you think about chroma post onegu flip? AND If GB is or flips town what do you think of chroma?
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
October 30 2015 10:51 GMT
#3286
also "who lynched mafia" on a split vote that required a hammer isn't a bad metric if you know it was mafia vs town. 1 component missing unfortunately; but still dun playa hate
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 11:39 GMT
#3287
Hm yes... I guess ritoky is actually quite unlikely scum regardless of what GB flips :/ So I guess it's ultimately GB/hopeless/Vivax (in some order) until we win?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 11:40 GMT
#3288
Probably..
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 11:42 GMT
#3289
Well, I think I'll be meeting you all in the post-game since absolutely nobody has tried to push me for some time... While everyone else has been pushed to some extent Or possibly BH, but who knows?

My last will would be for everyone to sheep BH/gumshoe as much as they can. They seem to know what they're doing here and both are 99% likely town IMO.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
October 30 2015 13:11 GMT
#3290
Here's something I just thought of:

You're GB and you're town. You KNOW 100% that the wagons were mafia-town, and the vote went through 5-4. Here are the votes against you:

Onegu (confirmed mafia)
Chromatically (your townread who's been pushing you)
Vivax (your #1 scumread all game)
Hopeless (complete lurker you've been calling scum all game)

So... a Vivax-Hopeless team should be pretty obvious from a town GB perspective, right? Instead, GB is assuming that Onegu was a complete bus from both mafia (who didn't hammer GB for some reason?), when he logically should see that all the scummiest people in the game (from his perspective) were piled on his wagon (who he should know is town).
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 13:21 GMT
#3291
Hmm....

Yeah, that's a bit odd. Would make sense if GB is scum with either hopeless or Vivax though.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
October 30 2015 13:21 GMT
#3292
On October 30 2015 18:29 Vivax wrote:
I've started to doubt gumshoe since he started planting the idea that I'm mafia as opposed to people who are competent at reading me.

I was assuming his posting style made him town all game long but given that 2 mafia are planning the endgame now and he has started to doing all sorts of shady shit, I'm reevaluating.

Take a look at this post, it's from D1. When you look at the votecounts in question you will notice that nobody ever had a chance to kill Onegu cause marv and rayn were both on the slam wagon with huge support from others.

Point I'm making is that this read is weird given the information we have now, and suggests gumshoe had knowledge of how to read people around Onegu's alignment. Another example: When he went all nuts and Chrom-defender after I told Chrom that if he wanted Onegu's reads he could simply look them up.


Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 11:15 gumshoe wrote:
Ritoky's switch onto Onegu last second makes very little sense as scum, if Onegu is town and gets bussed last sec, Ritoky looks terrible. If Onegue is scum, he just helped kill his teamate 0_0 seems like a dumb and unnecessary risk when town is already fixated on slam.

It's possible Ritoky was super confident Bh's lynch wouldn't go through, but then why bother at all? Just to distance himself from the slam lynch? Could backfire huge if Onegu actually did get lynched (would look like a last second buss off of Ritoky's buddy slam)


As you will soon see, neither was ritoky's switch "last second" (it happened 12 min prior lynch), nor does it make sense for gumshoe to make the assumption that ritoky is town cause if Onegu was town ritoky would look terrible.

And I think this is a nail in the coffin type of argument already, cause now I'm explaining it like you're 12.

First of all, he's exaggerating the weight of what ritoky really did: Last second switch, killig Onegu when the majority was on Slam all the time and didn't have any intention to switch.
Second, he's making this argument in which he spews Onegu's alignment (and ritoky's with the entire post).

Second, he's using this logic:

"Since ritoky would look terrible if Onegu flipped town, he is town".

at a time where he couldn't possibly be certain on Onegu's alignment, and also wasn't in his scumreads posts.
He literally assumed 100 % that Onegu was mafia when making this post.

Here the relevant votes, for display:

I don't see what's wrong with his logic? I don't see how he assumed that Onegu was mafia during his post. He says if Onegu is mafia, then ritoky can't be mafia, and if Onegu is town, then ritoky can't be mafia either, therefore ritoky is town. Maybe he's exaggerating/giving too much weight to the argument, but I don't see how it's scummy.
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
October 30 2015 13:23 GMT
#3293
On October 30 2015 22:21 Xatalos wrote:
Hmm....

Yeah, that's a bit odd. Would make sense if GB is scum with either hopeless or Vivax though.

Yeah, exactly because he needs two mislynches to win, so he can't survive if we lynch into {GB/Hopeless/Vivax} in that world. He has to convince people on gumshoe or someone else.
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 13:24 GMT
#3294
Tbh it's a bit hard to see Vivax playing so actively as scum, but it would explain well all the scumsiding (especially the recent Onegu saving attempt and now pushing gumshoe...).
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 13:27 GMT
#3295
On October 30 2015 22:23 Chromatically wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2015 22:21 Xatalos wrote:
Hmm....

Yeah, that's a bit odd. Would make sense if GB is scum with either hopeless or Vivax though.

Yeah, exactly because he needs two mislynches to win, so he can't survive if we lynch into {GB/Hopeless/Vivax} in that world. He has to convince people on gumshoe or someone else.


Yeah... Well, will be interesting how the LYLO plays out. I'm quite sure the scumteam is in that new trio, but you can never be 100% certain.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 13:32 GMT
#3296
Hmm... Just a thought... Maybe Vivax tried to get me to vote for GB because GB was generally a bit more suspected, some Onegu-lyncher could be shot at night, leaving Vivax/Onegu in a pretty strong position to win from the credit of GB's lynch and lessened suspicions on Onegu? hopeless would have probably been lynched next, and then maybe GB, but then it would be something like gumshoe/Chromatically/Vivax at LYLO... Vivax could have likely convinced Chromatically after helping to lynch GB... Hm.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 13:43 GMT
#3297
*and then maybe Onegu
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
October 30 2015 13:45 GMT
#3298
I think that might be thinking a bit too much into it lol
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 13:48 GMT
#3299
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 30 2015 13:55 GMT
#3300
I guess rayn could have just been wrong on ritoky. He was wrong on me and Onegu as well.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Prev 1 163 164 165 166 167 196 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
17:00
#103
Reynor vs ScarlettLIVE!
RotterdaM1330
IndyStarCraft 285
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1330
IndyStarCraft 285
mouzHeroMarine 244
BRAT_OK 106
ProTech102
NeuroSwarm 88
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2655
Dewaltoss 113
Shuttle 111
Hyun 74
Sexy 30
Shine 9
Dota 2
qojqva5178
Fuzer 203
League of Legends
C9.Mang0192
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu243
Khaldor236
Trikslyr62
Other Games
Grubby1573
fl0m1003
Beastyqt872
B2W.Neo390
crisheroes313
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 8
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 43
• LUISG 11
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 17
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler91
Other Games
• imaqtpie2344
• Shiphtur532
• tFFMrPink 16
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 24m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 14h
Krystianer vs TBD
TriGGeR vs SKillous
Percival vs TBD
ByuN vs Nicoract
OSC
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
OSC
3 days
Solar vs MaxPax
ByuN vs Krystianer
Spirit vs TBD
OSC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.