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Student Mafia XV - Page 7

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 17:16 GMT
#884
marv, try to follow me.

If Shining admits that his case on FF is weakened and thinks that marv is a better lynch, why would he not vote for marv?

Also, why would Shining say that marv is a better lynch, but then later try to retract it and say that his points on FF are better?

Also, why would Shining make 5 posts in a row that are super waffly and leave him open to two available wagons?
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 17:23 GMT
#888
On October 13 2015 02:21 Vivax wrote:
I'm in the lynch OO/SL/maybe moosy for his weird initial tone early before he changed after being noticed, and cause his latest argument over really nitpicky stuff felt kinda fake.

FF slightly got townier in my book.

It's not nitpicky at all. It spans over all of Page 3 in his filter.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 17:30 GMT
#891
:D It wouldn't be D1 without me as one of the primary lynch wagons.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 17:38 GMT
#894
On October 13 2015 02:33 The Shining wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2015 02:09 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On October 13 2015 01:13 The Shining wrote:
On October 12 2015 22:50 MoosyDoosy wrote:
If Shining maintained a modicum of sanity and tried to explain the pile of contradictions he made I would understand but all he did was snap. Only reason why he would do that is if he realizes he made a heap of posts that made no sense with each other.


This misrepresentation is trash and you're scum. I did explain my "pile of contradictions" multiple times. That's why marv could so easily understand where I was coming from. Instead you just honed in on the "it doesnt make sense, blah blah blah" and completely disregarded the multiple times I said I think FF could be scum and my reasoning for WHY Marv could be a better lynch. And would you look at that, he's no longer a good lynch because he finally started playing. I'd look to see more but it's a good start.

No, I did listen. You think that your read on FF is so good while you admitted that it was weakened by OO's and FF's defense. On top of that, you thought that marv was a better lynch. But you STILL didn't vote for him in that situation. This doesn't make sense whatsoever.

marv I'm going to read the past two games I've been with you in and check your meta. Also, saying that I'm clever and fairly intuitive from the last game is false because I had my reads all wrong. cheers.


But yet you think you have scum caught here D1. LMAO

No I said I trust my own gut instinct. I never once said OMG ITS SO GOOD SHEEP ME SHEEP ME SHEEP ME. And Marv already explained what I already explained.

So why don't you go ahead and answer the question. What is the mafia motivation for saying one lynch is better than another but trusting my own gut because Marv could very well come back, which he did, and I don't feel like abandoning my gut instinct?

?? You said that the point against marv made him a better lynch and THEN later you said that your points on FF all of a sudden meant it made sense for you to vote for him.

And yes, of course I think I caught scum when you just made a heap of contradictions, had page 3 of your filter be full of waffly posts, saddled yourself between two possible wagons, and raged at me out of nowhere when I was pointing out your contradictions. What ISN'T scummy about that?
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 17:39 GMT
#896
On October 13 2015 02:37 The Shining wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2015 02:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
marv, try to follow me.

If Shining admits that his case on FF is weakened and thinks that marv is a better lynch, why would he not vote for marv?

Because Marv still had time to come back and a meta read is shit. I feel like I've said this at least 5x already.

Also, why would Shining say that marv is a better lynch, but then later try to retract it and say that his points on FF are better?

I've never tried to retract that Marv was a better lynch at the time, just that I feel a scumread for actual things I see is better than trying to rely on a shit metaread.

Also, why would Shining make 5 posts in a row that are super waffly and leave him open to two available wagons?
Because when I'm town, I put ALL my thoughts into the thread. I couldn't give 2 shits what I look like and when I feel or think something, I say it. Deal with it.


If a meta read is shit, why did you say that it made marv "a better lynch"?

It still doesn't make sense. If you think meta is terrible why did you say that all of a sudden everything on marv was perfect and that you were warming up to lynching him?
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 17:42 GMT
#899
On October 13 2015 02:40 The Shining wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2015 02:39 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On October 13 2015 02:37 The Shining wrote:
On October 13 2015 02:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
marv, try to follow me.

If Shining admits that his case on FF is weakened and thinks that marv is a better lynch, why would he not vote for marv?

Because Marv still had time to come back and a meta read is shit. I feel like I've said this at least 5x already.

Also, why would Shining say that marv is a better lynch, but then later try to retract it and say that his points on FF are better?

I've never tried to retract that Marv was a better lynch at the time, just that I feel a scumread for actual things I see is better than trying to rely on a shit metaread.

Also, why would Shining make 5 posts in a row that are super waffly and leave him open to two available wagons?
Because when I'm town, I put ALL my thoughts into the thread. I couldn't give 2 shits what I look like and when I feel or think something, I say it. Deal with it.


If a meta read is shit, why did you say that it made marv "a better lynch"?

It still doesn't make sense. If you think meta is terrible why did you say that all of a sudden everything on marv was perfect and that you were warming up to lynching him?


BECAUSE HE STILL HADNT COME BACK. THAT RAISES THE PERCENTAGE THAT THE META READ IS CORRECT. BUT META IS UNRELIABLE. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO GRASP? HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF PRESSURE? JESUS

If you think meta is bad why did you describe it as "a better lynch" and said it was such a perfect point?
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 17:46 GMT
#902
No, you're just not making sense.

You're saying that meta against marv makes sense over time. This is just D1. So how is it that the meta on marv earlier was so perfect and made him a "better lynch?"

You're also saying that meta is unreliable. Then why did you think that the meta on marv was so perfect and made him a "better lynch?"

Also, if we take what you say and think that meta is so bad and unreliable, what does that make your case on FecalFeast when you thought that marv was a better lynch based on meta? That means you should have had a lot less confidence in your case on FecalFeast.

Nothing you're saying right now is adding up together.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 17:47 GMT
#904
On October 13 2015 02:37 The Shining wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2015 02:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
marv, try to follow me.

If Shining admits that his case on FF is weakened and thinks that marv is a better lynch, why would he not vote for marv?

Because Marv still had time to come back and a meta read is shit. I feel like I've said this at least 5x already.

Also, why would Shining say that marv is a better lynch, but then later try to retract it and say that his points on FF are better?

I've never tried to retract that Marv was a better lynch at the time, just that I feel a scumread for actual things I see is better than trying to rely on a shit metaread.

Also, why would Shining make 5 posts in a row that are super waffly and leave him open to two available wagons?
Because when I'm town, I put ALL my thoughts into the thread. I couldn't give 2 shits what I look like and when I feel or think something, I say it. Deal with it.


? You literally just said that a meta read is shit. Why are you trying to say you said unreliable now?
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 17:56 GMT
#909
On October 13 2015 02:53 The Shining wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2015 02:47 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On October 13 2015 02:37 The Shining wrote:
On October 13 2015 02:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
marv, try to follow me.

If Shining admits that his case on FF is weakened and thinks that marv is a better lynch, why would he not vote for marv?

Because Marv still had time to come back and a meta read is shit. I feel like I've said this at least 5x already.

Also, why would Shining say that marv is a better lynch, but then later try to retract it and say that his points on FF are better?

I've never tried to retract that Marv was a better lynch at the time, just that I feel a scumread for actual things I see is better than trying to rely on a shit metaread.

Also, why would Shining make 5 posts in a row that are super waffly and leave him open to two available wagons?
Because when I'm town, I put ALL my thoughts into the thread. I couldn't give 2 shits what I look like and when I feel or think something, I say it. Deal with it.


? You literally just said that a meta read is shit. Why are you trying to say you said unreliable now?


Shit and unreliable both mean meta is bad. It's bad because it's unreliable. It's unreliable because it can be bad.

Your picking at semantics and terminology is so horrible.

There is a clear difference between calling something shit/bad and unreliable. One is just terrible and the other sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. I'll leave you to figure out which applies to which. Also, saying you only said unreliable when you did say bad is a lie in and of itself. So don't try to make them similar when they aren't.

On October 13 2015 02:51 -Celestial- wrote:
I think you're arguing terminology here to be honest.

What I THINK Shining is trying to get at is this:
- The case on marv is a stronger case. However the case is, at least in part by many, a meta read and meta is a poor way to judge.
- The case on FF is a weaker case. But its based more specifically on reads from the game, so the actual evidence itself is a better way to judge.


Its the difference between getting a strong answer from a weak method vs a weaker answer from a strong method.

-Celestial-, do me a favor and look at P3 of Shining's filter? Tell me what you think of the contradictions and waffliness in them.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 18:08 GMT
#915
Hm, honestly pretty estranged tbh. I really think it should be obvious to see Shining's contradictions and waffliness and let them speak for him but for some reason none of you are doing it.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 18:13 GMT
#917
On October 13 2015 03:10 The Shining wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2015 03:08 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Hm, honestly pretty estranged tbh. I really think it should be obvious to see Shining's contradictions and waffliness and let them speak for him but for some reason none of you are doing it.


That means either you're tunneled horribly or, like ES, you think EVERYONE is on a scumteam with me =D

No, I think you're scum and I'm voting you for completely different reasons than Eversince. I don't even know what she's doing.

And the reason I asked -Celestial- was to see what he made of your P3 because it is full of contradictions and waffliness. If you flip town, I guess I'll just have to accept that your meta for D1 is to be contradictory and waffly. I'm also pretty hurt that you called me mentally retarded because I am town and you acting super scummy D1 was bad on your part. I just thought I'd let you know.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 18:16 GMT
#918
And no, my meta read on you was from our previous game where you tried to create an excuse to switch to a popular wagon and you were pretty much doing the same thing here with marv.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 18:29 GMT
#920
On October 13 2015 03:21 -Celestial- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2015 02:56 MoosyDoosy wrote:

-Celestial-, do me a favor and look at P3 of Shining's filter? Tell me what you think of the contradictions and waffliness in them.


Stream of consciousness:

- Part of the initial argument with ES. Honestly to me that whole thing just feels town on town. Uninformative.

- Comments about anger and rage in mafia TL. Then funny comment to me. Nothing much there.

- "Starting to warm up to the marv lynch". Says FF is giving counterarguments to what he claimed. Marv better lynch than FF.

- Comment on people not playing. NAI. It was winding me up too.

- Replies to you well about FF's counterarguments. Don't have a problem with this bit. The next bit is admittedly a bit weird: he says marv is a good lynch but is staying on FF because FF is on marv which to him means that he's wrong about one of them.
This is faulty logic to me. marv is nowhere in sight at this point. It makes perfect sense for FF to bus him if they're scumbuddies. It doesn't have to be either/or, they definitely could still both be scum. That being said it doesn't feel especially scummy to me. Maybe a little, but more like just a questionable leap in logic.

- Calls you town. Fairly easy call to make at that point I think.

- Stuff about pocketing. Tangentially related to the game but eh.

- Conversation with FF about his reads. He's convinced one of FF and marv is scum and effectively states that even without a marv flip he has enough on FF to make him believe he's scum. Which is fine as a position to take as far as I'm concerned but I'm not really convinced by the argument against FF honestly. Nor am I convinced that only one of FF and marv HAS to be scum.

- Gets somewhat unnecessarily aggressive in a follow up about the pocketing. Seems a bit weird; although his point is sound. Nobody is going to admit to pocketing.

- Reiterates that he thinks FF is scum. Goes onto the "marv is a better lynch" thing again. But as I stated in my earlier post I kinda think that this is a case of "weak method with strong indicators vs strong method with weak indicators" and poor phrasing.

- Knocking you down in estimation for claiming he's voting marv. Eh. Standard. Tries to explain what I just said in the point above.

- Criticises FF for changing his vote from one scumread to another. Which I do actually find a bit weird honestly. FF might be scum, but he's not scum based on that.

- Last few posts seem to largely be him getting mad at you for not understanding the point he's trying to make. Capped with an OMGUS vote.


Conclusion? There's some weird stuff going on but not enough for me to make a scum call on it. I'd null lean scum on him right now, but since I can follow his train of thought (even if others can't) and it appears to make sense I'm not going to lynch him D1.

I really don't like where he's going on the FF thing though. Overnight I might reread FF's filter.

I'm going to wait on what Kelsier says and then make a decision. If he think I've been tunneling too, I'm going to have to accept that Shining made a terrible contradiction and play that made so sense and that he should be allowed to get away with it. But I'm still going to keep an eye on him.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 18:51 GMT
#926
Great, so kSC said Shining was town.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 18:59 GMT
#933
On October 13 2015 03:56 -Celestial- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2015 03:47 KelsierSC wrote:

There are situations where a townie is being piled on and people will come to their defence to gain credit. For me the people who were coming to his defence, in a round about way

-snip-

Probably at least one scum in that group of 4.



I was somewhat defending Shining over the last few pages because I think I can understand his train of thought and I can see where the misunderstanding is. Why am I not on your potential list here? I know you've said you like my posting before but even so that was quite some time ago now.

He probably didn't refresh the page.

tbh I don't care much for this game if Shining made that terrible play as town so I'm just going to sheep you or kSC.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 19:02 GMT
#937
Onegu, in what way does my death give us information?
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 19:07 GMT
#939
Vivax has been very apathetic with his posts like I pointed out before Shining's bungle.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 19:32 GMT
#943
kSC you should change your vote.

-Celestial-, who would you look into other than marv?
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 20:36 GMT
#945
On October 13 2015 05:00 Vivax wrote:
Moosy being kinda interesting cause he doesn't care that I didn't just vote for him in a scenario when he's town and im mafia

I don't know and I don't care. My reads right now have gone down the drain and I don't feel like looking over the game again.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
October 12 2015 20:38 GMT
#947
On October 13 2015 05:37 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2015 05:36 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On October 13 2015 05:00 Vivax wrote:
Moosy being kinda interesting cause he doesn't care that I didn't just vote for him in a scenario when he's town and im mafia

I don't know and I don't care. My reads right now have gone down the drain and I don't feel like looking over the game again.


Are you the type who surrenders when he's being mislynched or do you fight it.

Self-meta is shit. But I fight it as Mafia and I tend not to care as town.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
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