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It seems town have a load of information overload roles, though I'm sure Palmar knows what he's doing with balance so whatever, but the angel/curse concepts are sorta making my head spin, and the no-flips... ...is there a limit to the number of times scum can execute soup kills? Right now that's the only question that jumps out at me. #yolo /in | ||
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Can the angel(s) protect someone multiple times/twice in a row, etc? So if a witch is lynched d2, they can still submit their power n2? and the answer will be made known to all in the mafia qt? (For example the necro) Is kp deliverable? Does the oracle actually learn who visited their target or just the number of witches (and just the fact that the target was visited period)? Alright, obviously will read up on the prior game, but just want to make sure I'm reading/understanding the rules right. | ||
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For starters, he's stricter than I am on behaviour, and he's quite helpful <3 When I signed up for his large normal Carol game last Christmas, I rolled jailkeeper. It was only my second game ever on TL. Shit I didn't even know what a jailkeeper was. I'm sure he'll remember that I asked him and marv an almost absurd number of questions on my role in PMs and the mechanics through D2 because I was pretty overwhelmed. It was pretty bad. But they were patient with me and answered everything. You see it here too.  He puts a load of work into his games. Win or lose, I think you will enjoy it. | ||
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Getting hammered whilst asleep at 3am would not be cool... *glares at the American/Canadian players*  | ||
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On September 12 2015 17:58 Palmar wrote: I think we're starting either sunday night or monday night. Cheers - I have a lot of RL commitments this weekend. Was going to post a pre-game excuse, glad it's not necessary <3 | ||
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On September 14 2015 16:48 Rels wrote: hype for this game! the personality mafia ending gave me a bad mood, I was mad the whole weekend after that, so let's step it up this time awesome playerlist too! HTS I promise to not be bad D1 this time will be sleeping when it starts, so I'll catch the scumslips when I wake up p: IF you wake up that is, before you get hammered Seriously though, looking forward to this one. | ||
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On September 12 2015 07:38 Damdred wrote: Bold Prediction : ls won't be soup killed LOL | ||
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Swamped at work, so just started reading the thread. I'm town but not the martyr. | ||
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Not sure why it's weird tbh. I read through the explanations of the mechanics to make sure I could trust them before I posted. *shrug* | ||
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I know LS has trouble playing scum when he is scum so this could easily follow that premise. Dandel's posting is less indicative, he could really not care for all I know. | ||
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On September 15 2015 21:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: If she has read like one page of the game and has never played this game i don't know how she trusts me enough to make the claim when she does (especially i derped and didn't even notice Palmar had changed the role slightly before like page 12)..... Based on your reads and your mechanics explanations, I trusted you enough that I could get a townlean on you, not that you were right about the mechanics. Those to me are two separate things. If I couldn't trust you were town, I wouldn't have said about me not being the martyr. | ||
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Okay so; you saw me posting why the martyr should claim before you claimed you are not one right?[/QUOTE] No I'm not. | ||
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No I'm not. | ||
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I do not have a good read on Fecalfeast at this time. As mafia he really shitposts and makes an effort to shitpost (reference: Carnaval, Ippo to a lesser extent). As town he plays more lurky but the caveat here is that in his first posts where he's talking about being wary of Damdred, he seems a little more serious/cautious than I'm used to seeing him (reference Titanic). I'm going to say a very slight townlean but I could very well be wrong here. | ||
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On September 15 2015 21:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: i meant, you read my reasoning why claiming is good before you said you are not the martyr, right? Yes, that and other people claiming "not martyr". | ||
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On September 15 2015 21:33 LightningStrike wrote: I'm back and ofc people want to lynch me I went afk. I honestly went to pokemon but I had take care of some college stuff when I got home. Now about the Martyr claim: I don't really like it myself because if you think about who would the martyr protect if they protect anyone? I feel like rayn could be mafia for his martyr hunting despite him being the main person speaking in the thread. On September 15 2015 21:40 Rels wrote: There are multiple people pushing you. Why are you attacking me, when I'm voting The Shining ? On September 15 2015 16:54 Rels wrote: Alright that is super scummy. The first post looks like he doesn't know what to say. The second post is a fucking useless question that is answered by rayn's previous post about why martyr should claim. Plus, a question is not what I call "getting down to business". Does it look like Rels pushed you for being afk? What makes you think this is a mafia-motivated post (the third quote)? I am making the assumption that if you read up to the part where Vivax claimed you would have covered this section that I quoted. | ||
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On September 15 2015 10:46 geript wrote: When he's town he'll still follow the leader, but he'll generally over talk about a random reason he's thought against it. A less than LS question. He presumably has some scumread based on the vote but I can't tell if this part is a soft push/non-committal read based on the wording. It seems a bit cautious though based on the wording. I'm going to say slight scumread. Everything else I read of his filter I feel could come from either alignment. | ||
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On September 15 2015 22:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so; you read the mechanics, you read my reasoning. When you read my reasoning why did you not notice it conflicts with the mechanics (because it does)? Like I said, I derped. I really have no good explanation. | ||
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On September 15 2015 18:34 Vivax wrote: There's only a small chance I'm reading too much into it cause it's FF but usually that applies. He doesn't care much when he's town, and is actually quite good at playing scum and making the impression that he cares and has some real scumreads. I don't think it's the latter in this game. Agreed with all of this. Once I saw the lols happening I felt better about Fecalfeast. I've played 5-7 with him plus recalling a few more that I've hosted with him in it, so this is a fairly reliable meta. I've seen one game where he IS tryhard serious town (Not Themed) but I was able to tell the difference between that and tryhard serious mafia FF (Carnaval). He's a slight townlean here. | ||
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This is where I am: Likely town: rayn, Rels, Vivax Townlean: FF, Tictock Null: Fidei, Damdred, BM, Dandel Scumlean: geript, Shining Probable scum: LS Fidei's post is legit (OGI) but that can be regardless of alignment. Damdred is another one I do not have a good read on based on his filter, absolutely nothing after the "ls deadline vote" remark. I'd have expected him to post more though as either alignment though. | ||
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Unsure of where I want to go for holy grail. I have a slight townlean on Tictock and I realise it's based on d1, but I want to be a little more sure that Tictock isn't pulling another performance like he did in Holy Guardians when he was scum. I obsed that game and he had me pretty fooled then. | ||
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On September 15 2015 22:35 Rels wrote: would disagree on FF and geript FF you're the second people saying he's playing his town meta. OK. For me it means nothing. geript pushed LS' lynch from the very beginning, and I don't think mafia bus this early, especially this game with everyone being a role On FF - I understand this viewpoint. There are a few games I cited where I can split his game and where he's broken meta as town (namely Not Themed) so I can see where he has the ability to break it as mafia. I think once he posts more and more information is on the loose he will be easier to discern past meta. As for geript, let me pull the quotes so we can discuss, I recall rayn townreading him so I want to see what you are seeing that I am not or if I'm reading too much into something. | ||
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On September 15 2015 22:35 LightningStrike wrote: I here still but I aint claiming unless I have to and will reread the thread later. Rels check all my games out for my meta and you might be able to give a better read on me there the database have all my games I had played in it. HTS you disappoint me  I am taking three things into account. 1 I'm aware you aren't particularly articulate. 2 I'm aware of your mafia meta, I am also aware you've said you don't like playing mafia and have trouble being the bad guy (reference Witchcraft 3). 3 I'm also aware of what you are capable of when you ARE town. This is why I tried to break down Rels' position for you. That he's scumreading you NOT for being AFK, and whether you can realistically break that down to being a mafia motivated post. I'm purposely ignoring the mechanics based on #1 and focusing more based on #6 in Rels post why you aren't answering the questions. Also I get the meta references on your end but the LS rule is quite arbitrary regardless of your alignment. The people scumreading you - even if aggressive - ARE breaking down why you are mafia or what about you looks mafia. So if you ignore Rels and Rayn (hypothetically) for just a second, who is mafia? | ||
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On September 15 2015 22:35 Rels wrote: would disagree on FF and geript FF you're the second people saying he's playing his town meta. OK. For me it means nothing. geript pushed LS' lynch from the very beginning, and I don't think mafia bus this early, especially this game with everyone being a role Rels - you still here? grabbing the geript quotes I don't get right now... | ||
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On September 15 2015 09:29 geript wrote: ##deadline vote Lightning strike Rayn I can't hold being in character, but do you know why? On September 15 2015 10:41 geript wrote: So Rayn have you figured out why I'm voting LS yet? On September 15 2015 22:05 Half the Sky wrote: Read geript's filter a few times. Can't get a good read on him either. He's voted LS for deadline but I don't understand this part. He presumably has some scumread based on the vote but I can't tell if this part is a soft push/non-committal read based on the wording. It seems a bit cautious though based on the wording. I'm going to say slight scumread. Everything else I read of his filter I feel could come from either alignment. Alright, I looked at your points. I don't consider this geript "pushing" LS (in comparison to you and rayn, he's not engaging LS), he is more or less asking rayn why he's voting LS. But I also know geript is a fantastic mafia player, I feel he is very capable of adapting - I see why you are saying mafia won't bus d1, but geript is someone I can see snowballing early as mafia (reference Jack of all Trades) based on gameplay. I can see him bus a fellow mafia d1 if it greatly benefits him. I also felt the "less than LS question" was awkwardly worded but I could be misreading that. | ||
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But let me double check the context. | ||
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On September 15 2015 10:46 geript wrote: When he's town he'll still follow the leader, but he'll generally over talk about a random reason he's thought against it. A less than LS question. So clearly this is a meta read based on then "when he's town" part but the rest makes no sense to me. Particularly going from the second half of that sentence to "a less than LS question" and how he's able to break the meta down this much. Rayn/Rels pushing him was 100x clearer. Maybe this is just me having major problems with his phrasing but honestly this is how I'm reading it. To me pushing LS is engaging with LS, not asking someone else about him, but simply my interpretation there. | ||
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I see what you are saying. I feel in any case based on my experience with him, I need to see more from him before I townread him let alone being confident in that townread. I am also aware he does get mislynched D1 when too many people misunderstand him (this has happened in Carnaval and some newbie game I forget the number) so I certainly will not vote him when I have stronger suspicions on others (Shining/LS). | ||
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Let me check his history. | ||
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On September 15 2015 23:02 Rels wrote: I think it's his way of saying LS wouldn't have asked this question as town. Fair enough. Then I probably was reading way too much into the question. | ||
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On March 04 2015 04:20 geript wrote: My order: Koshi--Bitch plz Onegu--I'm actually really glad you brought him up. I had kinda forgotten about him. That's actually quite telling. Sandroba--I think there's better ways of finding his alignment but probably not a bad shot Your Mom--Maybe rayn is right. Maybe rayn is crazy. Those are the only people I really agree with. Robik is kinda tbd but his townlist is pretty solid for the most part I think. Slam's town. I remember thinking Damdred was town. On March 04 2015 04:37 geript wrote: Ok so basically it boils down to 1 simple thing. Syllogism is in this game. There's literally no one in the world that has ever or will ever read Sandroba as well as Syllogism. So if we leave Sandro alive N1 and he doesn't receive a power, then we auto lynch him. If he does receive a power, we evaluate both his use of it and what power was given. Like it's complete win/win. This game was a themed game and a little different but this read (second quote) was also dependent on the town spirit in this game getting his shit wrong - and that he did quite badly. But the point I'm trying to illustrate is that here (and in a few reads on mafia Slam) where he went back and forth on him, he will call attention to his scummates. He did NOT hard push those two as he did others in that game, but like I said, I felt what he did was in the realm of possibilities. Therefore I want to see more before I feel more confident. | ||
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In any case I need to see more tbh. | ||
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I see Fidei was catching up as of an hour ago, and he posted in the other thread. He's never played as mafia, and I know he told me sometime back he would likely struggle with it if he rolled it. The longer he goes without posting makes me wonder if he's actually gone red this go. On September 16 2015 04:58 Dandel Ion wrote: ##Vote The Shining Also saw this and noticed this post came in at the same time (timestamp) as the vote. So why is this post scummy? Or are you in troll mode still? | ||
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There is one thing I noticed in his filter though. LS could you answer this? On September 16 2015 03:50 LightningStrike wrote: Damdred he only made like 2-3 posts and 1 is him saying I could be mafia without any explanation at all which is so unlike him at all when he's town. Rels could be town but Ticktock null I need to reread his filter when I get home. Rayn I think your town I was just being a jackass earlier regarding you I'm sorry what can I do to make up for it? "Rels could be town" I know I told you to ignore Rels before but given how Rels is nearly universally townread, given your wording what is giving you pause about Rels? | ||
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On September 16 2015 08:16 Damdred wrote: I know one player who is scum Who? Any other reads along with that? If you are town, of those scumreading you, who do you think is scum? | ||
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On September 16 2015 06:19 Tictock wrote: Ok caught up. Pretty ok with BM and LS now. Overall liked the responses LS gave to people pushing him and most of his reads are decent. BM for poking and prodding and his reads remind me a little of his game in NSM X? XI? where he gave a brief flurry of activity before afking until mislynched. Lol at people reading me scum for "getting townreads then dissapearing" no way did I disappear kus of RL, such as leaving for work as I mentioned in a post. Oh and leaning town on HtS pretty hard. I noticed you don't have any scumreads - the bolded was related to what FF said about you. Are you scumreading him now? If not, where do you stand on him? | ||
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On September 15 2015 19:28 Tictock wrote: Well I'm also waiting on HtS to make an entrance, but I have to head to work soon. I'm not sold on his read, but I'll admit Rels has done good open post cases before. TS might be someone to keep an eye on. I'm not sure I like BM. This was an odd explanation to throwing out a townread on rayn. so followed up on BM/LS, but what about Shining? | ||
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On September 16 2015 08:21 Damdred wrote: Anyway I'm like 95% sure that my bro shining is scrum he was the first filter I looked at. He is just so... emotionless to a point and he barely reacts to the thread to a point with pretty posts that seem to be structured. He explained he's not a fan of playing much D1. Did that factor into your scumread or are you just not buying that explanation period? | ||
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Going to rest up most of today and will catch up on everything (including the questions aimed at me) tonight. | ||
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Cannot sleep at all. To be blunt, I'm dealing with food poisoning and also other real life issues I'd rather not discuss in thread. Zero chance I'm going to work in the morning so I'll be up late tonight if anyone has questions (other than the ones already posed to me). Catching up from page 26. First - James' (Fidei's) list post. No problem with it here - I think it's towny, and it is in line with what I would expect from a town James. I personally disagree with the read on Rels, I think he's asking LS and such a lot of questions, but I do not believe he's played with LS. Considering he's using Personality (where everyone roleplayed) as a metric though, I can see why the read is off, and it would not appear mafia motivated, at least in my eyes. Second, Shining, addressing your question to me. I did not scumread you for activity. I agreed with Rels on how he was reading you on the phrasing of your two posts. When I said they were the only two I should have been clearer - they were scummy posts and there were no additional posts that indicated you were towny, which is different from saying "Shining is scummy because he's inactive." Hopefully that makes a little more sense. | ||
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On September 16 2015 08:37 Damdred wrote: I've played with shining in a total of probably 60-90 games total. We have played a lot together multiple places. I know he hates playing early, but he can't hide emotional things as town he explodes at points or he gets super excited but it's missing here. When he's scum he's structured and he's less train of thought and he shrinks his posts into huge posts. Town he just comments as he catches up. I just think it's his scum meta My first impression of this post is weak at best. I see this post and I think of Newbie LX where he had wall of texts (particularly in lylo - that stuck out to me) and in Student V he played a very lurky game. In Witchcraft 3 I think he had a mix of both if I recall right. This is off the cuff, but in any case, I think this is a poor post particularly without examples. This would warrant an initial scumlean. | ||
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A little after 2:30am now....I'm thinking I'll be on probably til 4am maybe 4:30 my time depending on how I hold up. | ||
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On September 16 2015 18:02 Rels wrote: I agree his analysis of the LS' push is bad. But think about his point of view: he wasn't here when people started suspecting LS' first posts. He saw LS' genuine posts and lots of people pushing LS. Outside of this and his TT's read, I agreed with all of this post. And even what I didn't agree with was super logical 100% Although I agree with rayn on why Tictock is asking about Vivax the claimed martyr. That read weird to me as well. | ||
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On September 17 2015 10:23 The Shining wrote: Ew. Sorry HtS, feel better. And thanks. Not great at the moment but definitely better than I was a few hours ago. | ||
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On September 16 2015 18:10 Dandel Ion wrote: dunno how good his meta shit is (but geript disagreed so it's probably solid) but he knows about the shine, which is more than i can say about anybody else this game. On September 16 2015 18:18 Dandel Ion wrote: not even trolling tho absolutely 100% no idea why ppl keep saying that This is what I understand geript to have said - On September 16 2015 10:49 geript wrote: I don't get Damdred's case. But shining is in an odd middle ground between his town meta and scum meta. On September 16 2015 12:27 geript wrote: Mix of things. He's quoting stuff, but it's not how i remember him consciously quoting and leading off of it. What he says doesn't come off as "smart" to me when most of the things he says usually are pretty solid when he's town. But he's also more active than he has been as scum. So if your first post was serious why are you trusting the read when you don't know how good his meta shit is? Am I misunderstanding what you are trying to communicate (in the bolded)? Particularly when Shining had a very sharp (IMO) reaction to how Damdred scumread him on page 26. What do you make of that then? If you are being serious and I am understanding you correctly, then I have no idea how you are townreading Damdred. | ||
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On September 17 2015 10:46 Damdred wrote: I can't help it, part of me loves the negative attention. And part of me withers under it. Shining will not disagree with me, and you aren't understanding the read at all. Which is bunk at this point anyway, but shining is extremely emotionally driven even his long posts in games are emotional at points as town and you can feel the I gotcha, frustration happiness etc. However in his scum games he is extremely dry and can't replicate the tone or feeling that he normally does as town. His early posts really fit into his scum meta while his past few posts totally destory the meta read. Even if it makes me have no scum reads idgaf shinny is town to me now. Do you have any town/scum tells of some of the other contested players at the moment? Fidei? Tictock? Even myself as geript/rayn seem unsure on me. | ||
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On September 16 2015 20:48 LightningStrike wrote: 1. I was mainly asking HTS if she thinks I can any of the posts as scum instead of town since me and her actually been playing together since November of last year so she got lots of experience with playing with me. 2. Geript wasn't in that game nor obsing that game(Carol of the Bells Mafia) but in that game I actually went away from following the town leader at the time GlowingBear and pushed for my own lynch of Tubesock because I tohught Tubesock scum slipped about the amount of scum in the setup lol. So LS, to answer your question there, you played VERY close to your town meta in JOAT, and you had me and even rsoultin totally fooled. You also were not doing too badly/too far off that in TL LXX (Guardians of the Galaxy) until you got hit by the tracker. You obviously had a much weaker scum game in Witchcraft 3, so I decided (as you can see in the post I made to you about how Rels read you) to try and flesh out your thinking with the three points (articulation/current scum meta/town capability) I had in mind. I think with the games I do have under my belt with you, it's probably the best way I can get a handle on you. Once you started providing the reads you did, along with the responses to some of the other questions others were asking, I felt you were probably town. | ||
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On September 16 2015 20:22 Vivax wrote: I find it interesting he points out how he disagrees with me and not rayn who at the time agreed with me on Rels and TT, and BM called rayn town from the get go. What irks me here is that he prefers to compare his reads to mine rather than to rayn's. Will have to take a closer look at that I guess. On September 16 2015 20:49 Vivax wrote: This BM asimmetry of communication is rather blatant. It feels like he turns more of a blind eye towards his TR rayn than to unCCd town role Vivax, almost like he wanted to avoid discussing with rayn. Saw this, I ran through BM's filter - posts 412, 434, there's a few points where he discusses that - actually the contrast for TT/Rels is discussed in 412. Unless you missed that post entirely and that's what you meant, but I am reading post 412 and I'm not seeing how that post is scum-indicative for BM. Maybe tonewise he seemed a bit confrontational on how you read it, but it sounds like meta or his experience playing with you. Nothing jumped out at me as unusual/scummy for him. | ||
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Also from about the second half of his filter (from posts 583 to about 609) I am having trouble telling whether he's trying to scumread rayn or just try and understand what he's saying. I know rayn somewhere in there tried to clarify a sequence of events but regardless I'm still pretty unclear where Tictock is going after post 609, the conclusion is really unclear as to where he stands on rayn if he's clarified where his townread on geript is coming from. Also noticed when he asked Dandel how he'd describe his posting and didn't follow up with his response (Dandel had replied "conscious" or something) - not sure if he missed that or just ignored it. But lack of direction on that end warrants a scumlean. Also not understanding why he finds the Fidei read poor which is easy to trace if you look at the back and forth in his filter. | ||
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As it stands him and Dandel are the top lynches for me. I'm going to grail Fecalfeast, unless I'm misunderstanding the mechanics. As I understand it 1 I should not grail people who could get N1ed (i.e. Rels/Rayn) 2 I shouldn't grail the claimed martyr (Vivax) - or does this not matter? Going to bed. Will be in and out through the afternoon going through stuff, probably will still be on the mend. Damn me. | ||
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On September 17 2015 22:06 LightningStrike wrote: Also I checked Ticktock's filter. Got him null still my main thing that bothers me is his unnatural read progression regarding me. First he called me scum than later he said I was town for some of my reactions yet it doesn't seem natural. His mind seem to change a lot with thread sentiment. Can you elaborate on this? Namely, can you highlight or give the page/reference (top right hand corner) numbers? And also more critically WHAT isn't natural. What situation did Tictock present that wouldn't make any sense for him to change his read? And if you are saying his mind changes "a lot" you need to give more examples or show how he just tries to blend in with more people. I found his filter tenuous in the wee hours but this is an entirely different issue you raise that I did not catch on to. Plus you also need to demonstrate a lack of evidence or a lack of reason for Tictock changing his read. As it stands, I don't particularly like this post. | ||
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On September 17 2015 22:11 LightningStrike wrote: He only changed with the thread sentiment O_o HTS maybe done the same thing but rayn's read progression was more natural though although he changed his read on me because apparently I reroute shit when some of the questions asked me to explain further which looks like it's rerouting -.- Alright, so you explained this part about rayn - just saw this now, but now demonstrate how Tictock fails to do this. That's the part I'm not getting. | ||
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Need to re-read LS's filter in total though and the case against BM and weigh those two. Off the cuff though right now, I'd still lynch Dandel over those two. | ||
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On September 17 2015 22:18 Tictock wrote: Sorta right, I'm not too concerned with Fidei scum reading me kus of my rather flippant post/read on LS at that point. I thought it was odd that he looked at the LS push and went looking for scum pushing LS, also the answers he gave me as to why he thought this were rather poor imo. So I'm scumreading him for looking for easy excuses to call people scum. Alright, I certainly don't think you are scum for this, but we might have to agree to disagree. Fidei actually stated a justification for why pushing LS could be scummy - namely his playstyle makes him an easy mislynch candidate - and he looked for people that didn't seem to have a solid enough reasoning and/or engagement with LS. I see nothing weak or unusual with this reasoning. Could he be wrong on you? Sure. Does it make him scummy? I don't think so. | ||
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....but I'm having a tenuous time with the reasoning for him thinking LS may be scum. Taking a harder look at Damdred. On September 17 2015 10:46 Damdred wrote: I can't help it, part of me loves the negative attention. And part of me withers under it. Shining will not disagree with me, and you aren't understanding the read at all. Which is bunk at this point anyway, but shining is extremely emotionally driven even his long posts in games are emotional at points as town and you can feel the I gotcha, frustration happiness etc. However in his scum games he is extremely dry and can't replicate the tone or feeling that he normally does as town. His early posts really fit into his scum meta while his past few posts totally destory the meta read. Even if it makes me have no scum reads idgaf shinny is town to me now. On September 18 2015 02:54 Damdred wrote: Oh shove it up your ass ff. Calling my change on shining a flip flop is totally bullshit at best. SHINING should agree with me that my meta read is correct on him in the regard I said it. He did things that fit with his town meta that he can't fake as scum so I read him town. So no its not a flip flop its a re evaluation so you calling it a flip flop is bullshit and just trying to influence people to look at me in a more negative light. Ugh. Alright, went back through Damdred's/Shining's filter and I can see where this is coming from with respect to the posts Shining made. Per timestamps the Shining therapy post was after the intial scumread and then there was a 3 hour gap where the re-evaluation took place. So this at least flows. On September 18 2015 03:52 Damdred wrote: The big thing that makes me doubt him is the way he's handling the situation with me saying id be ok with deadline voting ls and never doing so btw. The problem is that he is totally leaving context out of what he's saying in that I never called him scum but he was heavily hinting he could be martyr and my comment followed after rayns comment about pressuring him near start of the game. This is the part I'm not understanding. Unless I'm having another derp moment. I thought Damdred had said "I'm fine with a deadline vote on LS" and I took that to mean that could be a scumread. I'm having trouble how he could get a scum LS read or partial read out of this. Can you clarify? | ||
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Not to mention he's hardly posting in the other game he is currently in. | ||
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EoD is in 90 mins, right? LS is in university, if he has class, he's not going to be home in time. That's NAI. | ||
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On September 18 2015 05:25 geript wrote: Sure. I get that. That still makes you a fucking fantastic cop check. 1000% IMO the best cop check because there's very little to read you off of AND you're outside your established meta. To make sure I'm not biased here - what did he actually post that came off as scummy to you? | ||
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On September 18 2015 05:28 Rels wrote: No that's why I'm voting dandel ffs. Did you read my case ? I'm super unsure about damdred + he is a strong player, that's why II think he s the best check. Not to mention Damdred has fooled me pretty hard as mafia, but that's partially a fear thing on my end. ugh....fuck....Gaiden....that game still hurts... | ||
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On September 18 2015 05:32 Fecalfeast wrote: hts is there anything I can address or is it my laziness that's got you? It was something you said in response to Damdred. About the flip flopping of his read on Shining. I read both his posts and his change in reads plus where Shining talked about his therapy/anger management, and there was enough of a time lapse between those phrases where the reasoning for his change in read made sense. I was going to check your filter to see the context of what you said, because what he said about his change in read made sense once you checked for context in both his and Shining's filters. | ||
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On September 18 2015 05:37 Fecalfeast wrote: I did not check both his and shining's filters for context, it was a hasty remark for sure. Does that change your opinion of Damdred at all? You had Damdred on a lynch list. On September 18 2015 02:18 Fecalfeast wrote: Damdred has multiple times said he will provide content and has yet to deliver save for a flip-flop on his shining read And he provided a read on LS who is proving contentious. Your thoughts? | ||
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On September 18 2015 05:42 Fidei86 wrote: I think LS just made a mistake on the setup, honestly. It's hardly a cardinal sin... Yeah that part, he's been having trouble grasping the mechanics I can tell. Shit I'm also having trouble with mechs as well. If LS is mafia it's not for that. I'm more interested in his agenda and fleshing it out. People who don't know how LS processes things in games are going to misconstrue/easily mislynch him. So I feel it's important to flesh out his reads and his direction. That's how I think I can get a scum LS. | ||
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On September 18 2015 05:41 Rels wrote: Please geript its hard to keep up in phone I was quoting that to show Hts that ls absence was not nai but scum indicative Alright. I see where you are going with that. It would fall in line with if he's not around, he doesn't have to worry about trying to lie. Because we know he has difficulty lying. I can accept that argument. | ||
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On September 18 2015 05:48 Fidei86 wrote: @HTS why are you voting for Vivax for the grail? I was thinking that he's a good bet because (1) he's most likely town, being unCCed (barring some kind of rayn-like fake claim, which is too tin foil at this stage to consider) and (2) he hasn't been as active as other people, so he's not exactly a great NK target. What do you think? I think another good target would be someone super active and super townie, like rayn or Rels, but the risk of putting it on mafia makes me wary of anyone else.. If you aren't sure of geript, then go Vivax. The key thing is to make sure it goes to town. #1 is basically it. | ||
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On September 18 2015 05:55 LightningStrike wrote: Okay I got done with it early so I will answer these questions from you HTS. If you looked at ticktocks filter he never mention then I could be scum then later he mention and said I could be town with nothing about me inbetween those posts. He only brought me up when I was a hot topic of discussion. Is he doing that to others? because the way you phrased it made it sound like this was a frequent issue with him. Just this one time? And what do you make of his subsequent posting? | ||
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On September 18 2015 05:56 LightningStrike wrote: Also I going to be getting the car soon and will try my best to get home in time of EoD. I see. Assuming my husband doesn't pull me away before EoD, I'm hoping I can ask you a few more questions tbh :/ | ||
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I'm confident in James being town but people who don't know him well if they want to ping him as a lurker check, I can't fault their reasoning. | ||
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You have that wrong, geript wanted to check Fidei, not me. | ||
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On September 18 2015 06:08 Damdred wrote: I have a town read on Ls though hts, I think that he has problems though. Which point aren't you ubdertsanding specufically? Namely the 35% scum part. | ||
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On September 18 2015 06:12 Damdred wrote: Because Ls leaving context out and hyper focusing on an inactive players is scummy. That's pretty simple concept Much simpler now that you're re-phrased. Thanks. Definitely want to see updated reads from LS though. | ||
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Look at his filter - what do you make of his responses to Rels and myself Or what do you think of Rels' case? | ||
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There are two things I want to point out that I do not like. 1 BM's return. I don't like his voting Damdred and I will explain why. I also do not understand his association with Fecalfeast, but I will double check that quick at least before I leave. 2 LS's responses - obviously others have touched on this but I'll also weigh in. Hang tight. | ||
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On September 19 2015 15:44 Bill Murray wrote: Tictock, I don't scumread you at all anymore. Reads change over the course of a game. I am, and have been, deadset on lynching Damdred. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm just not feeling town-Damdred. I also feel he has overly interacted with FecalFeast, and the way they both acted with the Grail was pretty peculiar. I believe you're asking me about LS? Well, his interactions with Rayn have me leaning town on him, but I saw 1 post he made that reminded me of his scum game. I'm not that good at reading him, so I don't want to be like "ermagerd hez tern" and be wrong Alright, second part of my concern makes sense but the flip flopping doesn't. I posed this same thing to Fecalfeast. Showing how the read change was natural and how it occurred after the anger management part. At the very least I would have expected BM (assuming he read the thread) to at least say he didn't buy this excuse or comment on the read change in light of what Shining said. On September 16 2015 10:21 The Shining wrote: LoL since you know me, you would know I've been in anger management and in control of my emotions the last few weeks since my last blow up =P sorry I'm not angsty Shining this time around. But you scumming me for a crap meta read is going to get me to that point pretty quickly. Sorry bro, you're my #1 scum now. Shining made the expectation that Damdred SHOULD HAVE known about this. On September 17 2015 10:46 Damdred wrote: I can't help it, part of me loves the negative attention. And part of me withers under it. Shining will not disagree with me, and you aren't understanding the read at all. Which is bunk at this point anyway, but shining is extremely emotionally driven even his long posts in games are emotional at points as town and you can feel the I gotcha, frustration happiness etc. However in his scum games he is extremely dry and can't replicate the tone or feeling that he normally does as town. His early posts really fit into his scum meta while his past few posts totally destory the meta read. Even if it makes me have no scum reads idgaf shinny is town to me now. On September 18 2015 02:54 Damdred wrote: Oh shove it up your ass ff. Calling my change on shining a flip flop is totally bullshit at best. SHINING should agree with me that my meta read is correct on him in the regard I said it. He did things that fit with his town meta that he can't fake as scum so I read him town. So no its not a flip flop its a re evaluation so you calling it a flip flop is bullshit and just trying to influence people to look at me in a more negative light. Now I called this out on FF for which he admitted he had no good explanation, if Damdred is town this would make BM look poor. To be fair I know of town games where Damdred HAS been underwhelming (reference Void, Himalayas, the former he was mislynched, latter he was endgamed) because of a semi-lurky/RL issues/lacklustre performance. So I'm not sure I can fully buy the "he's not throwing out a load of townreads" plus the fact I believe he's in Decon's game as well so that isn't going to help for a conclusive read. On the other hand - as WIFOM as it is, a geript kill does implicate Damdred in the sense geript knows how to read him quite well. geript tracked Damdred d2 in Gaiden, and he knows of town tells that if he cannot detect, that Damdred is probably mafia. It is something to keep in mind if we cannot fully confirm Damdred town. Need to check again what geript's final read on him was. It's a blur atm... I disagree with Fidei (no this doesn't make him scum) that NK WIFOM is unreliable - NK wifom is strong late game, it's weak early game because you can conclude that any good mafia team wants to off these people, but late game in conjunction with certain NKs you can conclude a bit more reliably on who the (remaining) scum are. | ||
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On September 20 2015 03:38 Fecalfeast wrote: The deadlinevote leader was damdred until people switched to dandel. This makes me think damdred is a good chance of being a hit. I personally think shining was super town but that isn't confirmed i guess so maybe dandel has god reads but i doubt it. I looked at the VCAs, the latter voters (LS!!!) really stand a good chance of being mafia, plus those who really drove the Dandel lynch (probably at the beginning). Preliminary thoughts here. So for you to make this conclusion you imply that someone was "protecting" damdred to do this or driving the lynch off him. Am I correct? If not, what are you really saying so I'm not misunderstanding? The reason I thought was that he'd be DT checked, and I trusted rayn on the mechanics. So I really don't understand. | ||
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On September 16 2015 10:49 geript wrote: I don't get Damdred's case. But shining is in an odd middle ground between his town meta and scum meta. On September 18 2015 03:12 geript wrote: Otherwise. I really don't get the Damdred lynch. I really don't. It should say something that Rayn and I are on teh same train of thought even if I'm half removed from the game and he's getting on a cruise or something. I'll be back in ~hour or so after I relax with league for abit. On September 18 2015 05:16 geript wrote: I think he's town. I'm not 100% sure of it, but I think he's town. That should be pretty obvious by the fact that I don't want to lynch him. On September 18 2015 05:21 geript wrote: Like I don't have really well thought out, thoroughly developed reads on people, but the thing is that there have been a few that really stuck out to me. Fido not posting much is a big warning light. I think I posted something about him yesterday too when I thought it was deadline. The LS points are really, really good. I don't get why people aren't sheeping them. On September 18 2015 05:53 geript wrote: Oh yeah, usually damdred doesn't get personal/emotional as scum. I think I've seen it once, maybe twice. But usually he's "ncier" as mafia. Alright geript's last read on Damdred was town, had to make sure it didn't change for any reason. Makes the wifom theory 50/50, though I agree with Vivax it does implicate LS more. | ||
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Reading through more filters... | ||
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On September 20 2015 03:59 LightningStrike wrote: I not scum HTS I really thought people were going to shannie to me because said they would so I changed my vote for self preservation on my part like I really want to live but if I have to die for you guys to figure out the scum team then I willing to die for that. That's not where I have a problem with you. I'm aware voting to save yourself is NAI. The answers you gave to my questions before EoD and after was pretty.....just....I don't even know what word to use. There's no point in checking Dandel now because he's gone (the first or second quote you used after). The VCA implicates you - generically speaking you voted late when the lynch appeared to be secure - would have to check the timestamps to see whether people really voted close together but on sequence you look really bad. You were at class so you couldn't have been around to push Damdred even if you wanted to, so I'm discounting the lack of push as NAI (for now). Let me pull up the quotes. I was going to get to that but I needed to check on BM first. I didn't like his vote on Damdred, or rather for the reasons he cited. | ||
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Here's the thing. People have made it clear you have trouble lying. I am making my best effort personally to flesh out the questions explicitly as I can as possible so I can get past the part where I know you cannot articulate yourself well. So the issue is that you are not particularly answering directly or not even asking me to clarify. I am trying to work with you here based on all I know about you. But I'll be frank, you aren't making it easier, and I would expect some sort of pushback from you if you thought my questions were unclear (either alignment) or loaded (i.e. mafia motivated) or "out to get you" (like you pinged me out correctly in Newbie LX when I was mafia, and I used lynch all liars to get you mislynched) and so far I'm not seeing any of those responses. The other points against you now are VCA and NK wifom, though the latter is weaker, it's not helping you at all. | ||
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On September 20 2015 04:11 Fecalfeast wrote: no you got me there I don' think before I type. That was the reason people switched Exploring this mindset - - I can't see rayn lying about mechanics when others can easily call him out on it. Nope. - Rels made a case on Dandel (and I questioned Dandel's read on Damdred - it made no sense) - probably need to explore the people that tried to take the policy lynch avenue on Dandel then. - offhand I know this makes James (Fidei) look worse, there's probably 1-2 others that took that route. | ||
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On September 18 2015 06:55 LightningStrike wrote: When I said look at his filter I meant about the timing of his posts about me and correlation of me being a hot topic at that time. About his responses to Rels and you: It's okay nothing to spectacular about it. Also I think Vivax might be our best grail vote since hs is the unCCed Martyr and that role seems way antitown I doubt mafia would waste their KP to soup kill a Martyr. ##HolyGrailUnvote ##HolyGrailVote:Vivax On September 19 2015 07:23 LightningStrike wrote: I was rather confused by the wording of the post at the time. I felt his responses to you and HTS were okay but meh I should prob check his past games and see how he acts as both alignment. This is actually a great example of what I'm talking about. Why didn't you push back against me when you didn't understand the question and just answered it anyhow? There was still plenty of time before EoD to resolve that. | ||
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On September 20 2015 04:19 Fecalfeast wrote: That kill is pretty weird, too. You'd think getting rid of the grail wouldn't be that important N1 if LS is mafia. Rayn is the only one who has been really pushing hard for LS's lynch why not just shut him up? Most everyone has him town so I wouldn't immediately think he was killed for his LS read idk it's kinda wifom so I will shut it off No geript was too. Look at geript's filter closer to EoD. Scum cannot kill both of them. "I really want an LS kill" Geript was trying to influence the judge when we were one vote shy of lynching Dandel Ion. | ||
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On September 20 2015 04:17 LightningStrike wrote: I got a wall of text post coming up about my posts about Damdred but I going to say this before making that wall of text post about my position on Damdred over the game: I thought I had read some of the questions right the first I taking a Reading Class atm to work on my reading but then I saw post by rels where said I didn't answer the question and realized I misread it so I answered it when I quoted Rels. I only pinged you out in Newbie LX was because I knew and you knew that I wasn't capable of making a lot of posts as mafia at the time and you were misrepresenting me hard there when I got lynched in that game as VT. Alright. Based on OGI....I can believe this actually. Let's see your wall on Damdred then. (Sidenote - since LS is a contested player atm, as for the OGI, I'll just say it's not my place to discuss it further.) | ||
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My time is up...don't particularly want to make the husband annoyed. *facepalm* I'm going to look into the vote analysis a bit more plus those that tried to drive Dandel's lynch without much a purpose. That might be the next avenue to look into. I'll pick up on this tomorrow. Happy Saturday everyone <3 | ||
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On September 20 2015 04:25 Fecalfeast wrote: Well shit. You can just play for me HTS, you seem to read So what does this tell you about any of the people we've been discussing? | ||
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Basically there is information that I know about you irrespective of this game (namely your personal life) that is going to influence my read or how I interpret you. Now I have to run. | ||
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I'm on my way home, I was out all last night, I was out all day today. Since the husband is going into League marathon mode before work tonight (kill me please) I am setting aside HOURS to sort through this shit. Offhand as I recall the questions - is LS capable of lying/fakeclaim history OFFHAND - I know for a fact he fakeclaimed Named Town in Himalayas and that was massive controversy after he rescinded the fakeclaim. He had a MAJOR breakdown when the pressure piled on him that almost got him in trouble with the hosting team (Fecalfeast and I had some discussion on it) but ultimately we settled for a post-game warning (reference Ban List 2.0) - has LS ever fakeclaimed as mafia? Honestly NOT THAT I RECALL. I think he was lynched very early and picked off early in Witchcraft 3. In TL LXX Guardians he was tracked to the N1 kill. In my first ever game, Student IV, he sacrificed himself, both blues were dead so he did not fakeclaim. - is he capable of lying? honestly he has a very difficult time. He said so himself in Witchcraft 3. He doesn't like playing scum because of the lying. - is he capable of breaking meta? Well in JOAT he fooled us once, but he played VERY close to meta as coached by geript. To my knowledge he hasn't broken meta in a manner that benefits him as mafia. | ||
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I also want to sort through the arguments on Rels (just a cursory glance on mobile he STILL looks townie, but I want to get to the wording that seems to be disputed) Tictock and BM. These are just my preliminary thoughts. I know that during the week, James works crazy hours at work. This weekend, I know Friday night we played some dota, I think he was up later than I was, I want to say until at least 3am our time? Saturday he was involved in sport all day, rugby match at night. That said, this is pretty NAI. I know he's in Newbie 14. That game is in lylo, and he's going all out (and I will probably get in trouble if I continue further talking about that game) there. Not going to kid ourselves. So I want to push him at the very least to put some effort here. Because he has also told me that he has no idea how to play scum, and I do NOT want him to skate by. | ||
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Rels - there's 3 known metas I know of FF. Tryhard town (Not Themed) Tryhard/spammy mafia (Carnaval/Ippo) Lazy town (Carol/Titanic 7) I'll elaborate on them more when I get home. May need to do a database dig up on him too. I'll try and identify where he is here, the ONLY meta I have not seen is lazy mafia meta, and I don't want to make the same mistake I did with WaveofShadow in Gaiden. | ||
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Also the meta for FF I'm seeing so far is the "lazy town" meta. I'm reading through Carnaval for possible parallels, but he's spammy as shit there. And I mean really spammy "shit up the thread". Rels having 17 pages of filter btw I'm not sure is indicative. I don't think he's been mafia but his posts have had direction and he scumhunts in a very conversational fashion, fishing for reactions and such. Which contributes to his longer filter. The question to hit upon is whether he's misleading and misdirectional if anything and so far I'm not seeing it. | ||
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He was way the hell more spammy in Carnaval across 4 cycles, and was caught out on VCA. Some of the spam was pointless filler, a bit of talk on setup spec there but I'm ignoring that for here since we are in a themed game. (Carnaval was a normal mini). FF also had a history of pushing AFKers in that game. Ippo was also 11 pages in 2 cycles, and a lot of spammy shit there too. A lot of one-liners in that game with ZERO direction. I know Vivax said something about FF's late vote being a problem but it was not nearly as blatant as him trying to save his confirmed mafia teammate in Carnaval. So I think the thing here is to look for a combination of lack of direction plus a crazy amount of filler. I know in Carol he was just completely lazy, and I know in titantic 7 he contradicted himself a lot as town (I cased him twice, that's how I know and he was just playing really suboptimally). I don't think he's mafia here. Based on what I know, and what I've read I don't think he's the lynch. I am curious to read Rels' reasoning. D1 I know he's quite lazy (and three times to my questions he admitted he lacked answers largely because he just wasn't reading) and I'm seeing that here. D2 there were 1-2 posts that jumped as being somewhat town. He's a very good DT check if people want to resolve him sooner rather than later (or those who don't understand his meta) but you see more of an obvious agenda trying to pick off the easy lynches/afk people/less actives as mafia. That was very apparent in Carnaval and less so in Ippo, but still apparent. | ||
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On September 21 2015 02:25 LightningStrike wrote: Just saw this because I was playing some Pokemon TCGO(Trading Card Game Online). Thank for attesting to the fact that I had fake claimed as town and no I never claimed a blue role as scum before I had only claimed VT/Town(I claimed just Town in JOAT). Was this the OGI you were talking about that you said it wasn't place to talk about it? Nope. The OGI is related to your personal life, which is why I stopped short of talking about it. I highlighted the parts from stuff you said about your university coursework that alluded to it. I admit I am a bit cautious on you breaking meta to lie but for what I know it is still in the tinfoil world for me - you've never done it before and you openly admitted in QTs/etc that you don't want to/won't do it - and I'd be a bit more concerned if you were still alive late game. The fact that BM had to coach you on Skype on how to pull it off (and you still couldn't) in witchcraft 3 is clear indication enough. In Guardians I don't think you had to deal with any of that, and you claimed scum anyhow when you were tracked by Trfel. You didn't even try getting around it at all. | ||
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On September 21 2015 02:29 LightningStrike wrote: I here HTS what up girl? Not much. Trying to power through a few filters and re-read the thread on mobile. Apparently there's a meeting in about 90 minutes a bunch of people are going to return here to discuss a few things. Fidei also mentioned he would return to allocate more time to Mafia Sunday night (it's 1830 here, not sure what time he'd be around) but I'm hoping he can split time between NSM14 and here. | ||
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On September 21 2015 02:42 Fecalfeast wrote: which is a good scum tactic I have seen before. Didn't eden have 50 pages one time? That was as town vanilla in Horn of Africa. He fakeclaimed miller, goodness knows why. Eden is a player who does jack all as scum, what that has to do with this game, no bloody idea. | ||
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On September 21 2015 02:47 Rels wrote: Rayn if you're reading this you need to come back. Day 1 you left the thread until deadline cause you went to Stockholm. Now you're threatening to not do shit until deadline because people won't lynch ls. Sorry but that ls claim is actually pretty likely to be true so please accept that and come back. 100% Sadly I expect a soup kill on the town because of this too. Ugh. | ||
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On September 21 2015 02:37 LightningStrike wrote: Isn't a little harder to read stuff on mobile lol. Also you asked someone to kill you because your Husband wants to play LoL why not play with him Yes, I don't have a choice, I have been limited for time from the off. I am just doing my best with what I have. As for League, fuck League. I would rather wipe my bum with a cactus than play League. >_< Back on topic... Anyways I'm looking into BM right now. I didn't like the early D2 vote on Damdred that I recall offhand before I AFKed. If anyone else wants to discuss BM in the meantime, that'd be great. | ||
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rayn, you said that Damdred loses interest as scum, if you ignored the DT mechanics or pretend they don't exist. Would you vote Damdred or at least pressure him (irrespective of LS)? He's been pretty afk. (right now I'm trying to evalute both worlds of BM which is why I ask - can the push on Damdred make sense - and why did BM vote Damdred when he's looking at an LS mafia world, I see the late vote on LS there too. Trying to piece that altogether. Either I'm derping, or something really isn't adding up with him. | ||
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I'm going to wait until he gets back in thread. Just meeehhhhhhhhhhhhh. I can buy Vivax's point that the use of the term was misleading, I saw the exchange between tictock/Rels, but the buddying argument, I remmeber the words used between them was too overly obvious, can't see scum just being too overly obvious about that. Meeehhhhhhhh. | ||
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Admittedly better than Glenfiddich for the price point. Anyways... | ||
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On September 21 2015 03:06 Fecalfeast wrote: I will sheep rayn in lieu of reading words ##deadlinevote ls ...... What do you make of Damdred? Do you think (based on your last post and maybe what BM is saying) that Rels is being opportunistic? Do you think he can reasonably be opportunistic when he's not really played with you in games before? | ||
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On September 21 2015 01:05 Fecalfeast wrote: Please say this is a joke. You're already at auto, then? You really think the game ends in a town victory if we lynch bm/dam/me/tt/hts because of association with one person? Here's the thing, mafia always sets me up for the lategame mislynch and doing so here is making me really suspicious. BM makes a decent point. A 17+ page filter in this not-so-spammy game is ridiculous and makes people like me who are lazy not want to filter dive rels at all. I've done this all while lying in bed so i honestly haven't taken a good look at the actual meat of the cases. I will make breakfast and then reread after, i am hungry That's what I was looking at, but you basically answered the question anyhow. Alright. | ||
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Under review - Tictock Scum is probably in Damdred/Fidei/BM Could be wrong on these people (they are scum) if they have broken meta: LS/Fecalfeast I am assuming Shining was town as well. Also bear in mind, I look for scum individually before teams - yeh I realise we're in a no-flip game but still it's just how I think in general. I can also understand rayn's plan but I still feel LS is likely town and I'd rather keep digging through. | ||
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Especially when none of your teammates speak English >_< | ||
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LS, my understanding is you are being lynched for strategic reasons (at least according to rayn) and nothing is going to stop that, judging from the votes. I think your best bet is to find someone that is a higher probability of being scum than you are. Other than Damdred, I disagree with the lack of check, I get both sides of the story but assuming all the fallen thus far are town and Damdred is one of the three scum, who else is bad in your books? | ||
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(1) why aren't you buying into LS's claim (2) what do you make of his push on Damdred (ignoring mechanics) (3) He went full tilt in Himalayas (almost to the point he got in trouble with the hosts) and I'm seeing it here. There's a shittonne I didn't like about him until he explained why he wasn't taking in Rels questioning properly. To expand you are talking about his lack of reads but when the entire bloody game is piling on him, this is how he reacts. Why do you feel this is exclusively mafia LS? | ||
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Would appreciate a few more pressure votes please. | ||
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....not sure if I could argue the same thing here though, he does rage when town do poor, a good example of that being Titanic 7. I see rayn's behaviour in of itself as NAI. | ||
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On September 21 2015 07:04 Damdred wrote: Hi friend sim back just now will be catching up here and posting some as I read So who is mafia in your world? | ||
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On September 21 2015 08:32 Bill Murray wrote: gonna possible go see a movie ... taking a break from this either way... maybesome dota 2 ? I'm on now, are you in the Steam group? Last round for me though. | ||
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I'm going to pick it up tomorrow. | ||
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1 Damdred 2 James (Fidei) 3 LS ("aka the plan") I strongly prefer 1, with a gap between that and #2 and an even larger gap between that and #3. I mean the play in lynching LS is to prevent the soup kill correct? Lemme check the post.... D2 in general was quite unproductive tbf rayn, it was the weekend. You were in Sweden, others had other things going on. I myself had a window of maybe 3 hours maximum that I could play on the entire weekend. At least BM is probably not mafia. Didn't get around to checking Tictock though. I can directly vouch for Fidei's absence Friday night - I was playing dota with him, then, until 3am fact. Saturday he had sport all day, IDK. I'm just saying RL commitments are NAI. The only thing I'd judge him on would be Sunday night where he prioritises a game that is in 2:1 lylo over here. The main reason I'd lynch into him is what I do know about his hesitation to play mafia, the fact that I've read most others here as town, barring 1-2 I could be wrong on (previously stated). | ||
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On September 21 2015 03:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am going to try to say this once more. The reason why Vivax claimed on D1 is because then people cannot hide behind claims and HAVE to play this game by just.. playing the game. There are people who do that as town, like Dandel. Apparently he didn't give any fucks and i hate it. And i know it's because he just.. .didn't give a shit because "he gets to shoot anyways". Which is idiotic. That role is one of the best roles lategame because it cannot be counterclaimed ever, otherwise you just die. Well, LS has not played, at all. When geript died mafia got his role. Now LS claims the ONLY thing that he can basically ever claim as mafia. Because it can (and i believe mafia thinks it will) force out a counter claim. LS is going to die anyways if he doesn't claim and he knows that. If he claims he does the best thing for scum if someone counter-claims. Because then mafia can STILL soup two people. Vivax, and the claim. Here is why the lynch is the best: 1) LS is mafia - obviously best scenario 2) LS is town and we lynch him - we know he is town because exorcist shoot someone, hopefully mafia (yes i am really sure James is mafia), on D3 -> D2/N2 there were 2 dead town, 1 dead mafia 3) LS is town and we do not lynch him -> we lynch mafia instead - On N2 mafia soups LS + Vivax. SAME FUCKING POSITION. 4) LS is town and we do not lynch him -> we lynch town - Exorcist shoots mafia. On N2 mafia soups LS + Vivax. WORSE FUCKING POSITION. 5) LS is town and we do not lynch him -> we lynch town - Exorcist shoots LS. On N2 mafia kills whoever. WORSE FUCKING POSITION. The only scenario, even if we lynch mafia that is not LS, is WORSE/SAME than lynching him. The only scenario which is BETTER is if we lynch him and is mafia. IT IS THE BEST PLAY REGARDLESS OF HIS AFFILIATION. For reference. Alright, I think I get it now though. So you do want to prevent the soup kill at the least. | ||
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Need to attend to work here, but next break I get (or worst case, when I get off work) going to prioritise Tictock. | ||
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Yeah....that was the main reason for my Jeopardy post. I posted that 1h after he posted his catch up post. I know he's US so was hoping he might have posted something after I went to bed....but no he didn't. | ||
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There are several things about both players that I'm coming across that I don't like, want to get some comments on them. Massive posts coming up... | ||
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On September 22 2015 00:48 Tictock wrote: So to his credit, LS has been pushed on pretty much all game long. I get that it can be frustrating to be scumread and pushed by almost everyone, but if that's the case then it should be pretty important to listen to the reasons why people are pushing scum on you and react to that. In this case LS has been pushed because of meta, and because he hasn't been giving very many reads this game. Besides his long post rehashing his D1 Damdred read LS has only stated that Fidei might be scum today. Multiple people have called him out for this or asked him to give more reads, but it hasn't happened. Hell just the fact that LS is only targeting lurkers with his reads today is fairly telling, but onto the claim. So rather than talk about reads or push on people LS thinks could be scum he decided to claim instead. Right off I'm noticing that there is too much focus on the "Wandering Wraith" point here. It's like LS is pushing that point harder than the fact that he is claiming Pope. In fact it is literally the main point of this post. Now it has been discussed that LS is uncomfortable lying (not sure how Rels got to incapable), which makes sense because as scum it is difficult to keep up with lies and fabricating reads and stuff takes a bit of work. So I have to think here, why would LS as town claim one of the worst roles for town to claim rather than simply giving out his unabashed and full reads on everyone? Surely it would be worth it to keep your role safe and make more efforts to play properly before resorting to claiming. I don't know LS all that well so maybe the pressure really did get to him, but I have a hard time seeing a town!LS claim so easily with this role. On the flip side, as Mafia what would be harder for LS to do? Fabricate reads on a bunch of people who he hasn't given reads on yet, or fakeclaim? Clearly the fakeclaim option is both easier and more beneficial to scum as they potentially get a nice soupkill if there is a CC. I also found LS's all caps posts following people questioning this claim to reak of faked emotion. Hard to back this point up, but if you look at LS's filter after his claim (pg 7 of his filter) he goes back and forth between using all caps. Sorta seems to me like he wanted to look like he got mad, but then dropped it when he threw out the crazy notion that Wraith RNG visited, then remembered what he was doing. Idk kinda a weakish point maybe. Alright. I'll comment on other parts of the thread but this post jumped out at me. Alright, I don't believe you have played with LS much but the all caps formatting is NAI. He lost his head in fakeclaiming AS TOWN in Himalayas to the point he almost got in trouble with us (the hosts). It is a running "joke" on TL that LS claims/fakeclaims (though only one the latter) as town under the absolute slightest pressure when it is unnecessary to do so - he freaks out about getting mislynched and he'll claim blue in suboptimal conditions when he is blue. He did it in Gaiden, he fakeclaimed in Himalayas at NIGHT (as town), this guy cannot handle the pressure as town and will just lose it. Onegu tried to policy lynch him for this because it is very destructive to town and his fakeclaim really hurt town early game in Himalayas. As for the way he's structured his sentences, if you know LS well enough, you will know that he is the king of run on sentences. He has been criticised for the way he runs on his sentences, it is extremely tenuous to work though but again NAI, people that KNOW HIM will just deal. BM and I (and likely others I might not remember) had tried to work with LS and D1 people were really stumbling through with how he was processing his thoughts. He explained he had issues with reading (fuck I forget what page or post reference that was on, but IMO it is critical for people that don't know LS to read that) comprehension and he was trying to work on that in a university course. Even if you were to ignore dick move analysis here, he has made references to that in prior games (Newbie LX, Himalayas, and I want to say Gaiden, but don't quote me on that) - but again you wouldn't probably know that unless you have played with him. Where I WILL push LS on the basis that I might be wrong (reference my last status post) is (1) broken meta, ie first time fakeclaiming as scum, which there is no prior knowledge of and (2) lack of reads when trying to work with him. He's pushing Damdred, though earlier Vivax questioned the intensity of that push, rightfully so, but to his credit, it may be hard to keep up that push when you are forced to defend yourself against wagons/pressure most of the game. I asked who else - he said fidei which one could throw that out as parroting. The problem? You don't really see how he got there. I can buy that last point. (3) his push on Tictock for his read progression on him is not natural or there was a jump in logic (which makes Tictock's first paragraph in his case against LS look REALLY weird I'll admit) and that was D1....it's near end of D2, where in the bloody hell did THAT read go? Of course the problem here is that you can argue something similar to 2, a ridiculous amount of pressure to sort through. (4) Looking through LS's filter he talks about the RNG factor on why geript would visit him - On September 20 2015 22:01 LightningStrike wrote: No offense but he would rather go to me since he was suspicious of me over you or his role is actually RNG and he visted me instead of you because of RNG idk I don't even know but I don't think's RNG he would visted me on purpose. On September 09 2015 23:40 Palmar wrote: [*]Wandering Wraith: Even in death you still haunt the living. Every night you can haunt a player, that player will know he was visited by the Wraith. If you visit Grandier or the Pope, they will learn your identity. Now THIS is bad for LS. Why would you talk about RNG then and then say why geript visited you now and you have no idea? LS you need to explain this. This looks really bad for you. | ||
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(4) Looking through LS's filter he talks about the RNG factor on why geript would visit him - On September 20 2015 22:01 LightningStrike wrote: No offense but he would rather go to me since he was suspicious of me over you or his role is actually RNG and he visted me instead of you because of RNG idk I don't even know but I don't think's RNG he would visted me on purpose. On September 09 2015 23:40 Palmar wrote: [*]Wandering Wraith: Even in death you still haunt the living. Every night you can haunt a player, that player will know he was visited by the Wraith. If you visit Grandier or the Pope, they will learn your identity. Now THIS is bad for LS. Why would you talk about RNG then and then say why geript visited you now and you have no idea? LS you need to explain this. This looks really bad for you. You brought up RNG, the OP doesn't even talk about that. Then you say later "he visited me" and you weren't sure why. Why did you say these things? | ||
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Here's an example. He brings up LS for pushing lurkers when he brought up Fidei except Fidei was NOT scumread by him for being a lurker in fact it was a reason that was in his filter. On September 20 2015 09:59 LightningStrike wrote: Idk quite honestly if I wrong on anyone could be James because I a huge sucker for people actually defend me when I get under fire he been kinda me focused I guess more than anyone filter % wise he wasn't talking much about anyone compared to me O_o LS scumread Fidei for hyperfocusing on him not for being lurky. Yes Fidei is lurky but that's not why he scumread him. Big difference in what he's trying to communicate there. There's that and the fact that the prior argument in his massive post he's trying to apply it as if LS was a rational town player when he is town, but I know for the fact that he is not. Where this gets murky is that Tictock I do not believe has actual exposure to playing with him, so that entire first part could just be sheer ignorance on his part. It's just that his Holy Guardians performance gives me some pause in townreading him for that post. | ||
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On September 22 2015 02:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also i give you a scenario HtS: LS is mafia. He is most likely being lynched on D2 because of rayn is pushing him. LS has said he will claim (which is true about 100% of the time either alignmetn). Mafia team (whoever that is who has any fucking brain) tells him; "Hey LS, see, geript was this role here. You need to say that he visited you and you got his role, because it will give out another townie and we can then soup two people if someone claims, or hell, maybe someone even believes you over the other guy who cc's you". What does LS do? It's not like he has to come up with this himself. He has a fucking team who can tell him what to do. LS has not fakeclaimed as scum, but no as I've said I'm not discounting that he won't break mafia, he easily could be here. Still want to see his response to my question honestly though :/ | ||
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On September 22 2015 02:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: Are you talking about Tictock's big psot on LS' claim and play? Yeah I tried to break it down. The ONE point where I agree with him is why geript would visit LS and then that's what made me go back through LS's filter and I found something in LS's filter that makes him look really bad. He brought up something about geript RNGing who he'd visit so I just posed a question to LS now on it. The first half of Tictock's post was questioning the timing of LS's claim and doing it with little pressure. The problem with that sentiment is that LS as town is KNOWN for pulling that shit and known for losing his head as town under slight pressure. It has wrecked town before. That is what I tried to break down. | ||
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On September 22 2015 02:26 LightningStrike wrote: Okay I got some time before class. Exercist please at least shoot James because everyone including me think's mafia and he should be shot if you guys end up lynching me today. This will be my only post before class. EoD is NINE hours from now. You are telling me you have class for the next 9h? | ||
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On September 22 2015 02:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Here is a set of posts Damdred made when there was a big wagon on him and basically LS was the only counter-wagon. At some time before these posts Rels has made a case on Dandel. The thing is this kinda play makes no sense as mafia because you are basically trying to get lynched here if you are mafia. Damdred has obviously not read the case on Dandel before he makes his last post. That makes me almost definitely sure he has no team (who would tell him in scum QT that there is a case on Dandel he can save himself voting for). Instead of wanting to lynch LS Damdred stands behind his read on him. Now this could make sense if Damdred was mafia with LS, but then again, why doesn't he just vote for Dandel and "save them both"? It makes literally no sense Damdred is mafia here. The vote switch to Dandel becomes way more interesting given this fact, and even the push on Damdred becomes interesting here because every other person (me, geript, HtS) who are actually good at reading LS (sorry Damdred, but your tracking record on people who you are supposed to be good at reading at hasn't been.... quite good lately) thinks LS is mafia. Just checked - based on the bolded part of your quote, he did vote Dandel. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/494815-season-of-the-witch-voting-thread?user=Damdred But based on the quotes I think I understand what you are saying and why Damdred might not be the correct lynch. Now Damdred is saying now that he doesn't believe LS's claim anyways. Hmmmmm......curious to hear his reasoning though. He's played enough with LS... | ||
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I'm ok going forward on the idea to check Damdred, and I think I'm ok lynching into BM or Dandel.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On September 19 2015 09:05 Tictock wrote: I'm at work so can't post much. Mostly just wanted to apologize for my EoD. Wasn't able to get a break before the day ended like I thought I would. Had to sneak away just to throw my vote on Dandel, and managed to check once more right before the day ended to make sure we were consolidated at least. I wont be around for next EoD either, but I'll not leave things so last min this time.[/QUOTE] Alright, this is all he says about Dandel, not a ninja vote, but you have the gap in explanation as to why the push on LS was dropped. Who else wanted him dead other than you and geript d1....a few people. And there was the threat of last minute shennanies but Tictock apparently wasn't around. But there was enough pressure to support a train on his primary scumread. So I agree that Tictock looks worse in this respect. Maybe he really is pulling another Holy Guardians performance. | ||
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On September 17 2015 23:53 Tictock wrote: I'm ok going forward on the idea to check Damdred, and I think I'm ok lynching into BM or Dandel. On September 19 2015 09:05 Tictock wrote: I'm at work so can't post much. Mostly just wanted to apologize for my EoD. Wasn't able to get a break before the day ended like I thought I would. Had to sneak away just to throw my vote on Dandel, and managed to check once more right before the day ended to make sure we were consolidated at least. I wont be around for next EoD either, but I'll not leave things so last min this time. Alright, this is all he says about Dandel, not a ninja vote, but you have the gap in explanation as to why the push on LS was dropped. Who else wanted him dead other than you and geript d1....a few people. And there was the threat of last minute shennanies but Tictock apparently wasn't around. But there was enough pressure to support a train on his primary scumread. So I agree that Tictock looks worse in this respect. Maybe he really is pulling another Holy Guardians performance. edit - fixed quotes | ||
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Unvoted Damdred for now. | ||
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On September 22 2015 03:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like if he literally thinks LS is the best lynch because i am right on LS at the time he makes his big post why doesn't he vote for LS then? Well he should mainly because it's his primary scumread and others were also against him, enough support for a train... | ||
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In short, revoting Damdred? Reading... | ||
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I think I have roughly an hour before I'm pulled away by the husband again. | ||
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Votes: Damdred: 6 (Bill Murray, Rels, LightningStrike, Vivax, Rayn, Half the Sky) LightningStrike: 1 (FecalFeast) IML votes in bold. For current reference - 1h22m to EoD | ||
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On September 22 2015 05:43 Fidei86 wrote: This question might have been answered already, but just in case it hasn't - didn't we agree that we wanted the cop to check Damdred, so that silence would exonerate him? Did we have a cop check I missed? there was subsequent discussion regarding soup kills that people were debating where even with a red check, mafia would soup DT and Vivax for one mafia. (paraphrasing) | ||
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On September 22 2015 01:09 Damdred wrote: I will be around in 2-5 hours. I'm driving home now so just a small amount of patience I really don't want to tell why I've been so busy the past week to influence the game in that regard. But I don't think I believe ls claim anyway Since you didn't play Final Jeopardy yesterday, perhaps you can do so again tonight.  The category is "Why You Don't Believe LS's Claim" The question is regarding the above statement and why you do not believe LS's claim. What are the points that you dispute? And finally who else is mafia in your world? You have one minute to answer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3lLYOGDsts Okay, last part about the minute was in jest, but you get the idea... | ||
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On September 22 2015 05:45 Fecalfeast wrote: rayn are you mafia with HTS and steamrolling this shit? I've got tinfoil syndrome real bad You'd need a shittonne of tinfoil to justify that... | ||
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On September 22 2015 05:53 Fecalfeast wrote: vivax on pg85 is nurturing my rayn tinfoil read tbh. HTS i only have 25m do you have any spare? So what are you trying to say here? I think you might want to completely catch up on the thread before declaring rayn/rels/me scum, if your read is based on that. | ||
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On September 22 2015 06:02 Damdred wrote: Honestly in this setup since mafia killed geript it would be logical in a way to make that up if you are claiming pope. So its not that big a leap. Tge yelling idk what to think, angry ls is town ls usually. So it does give me pause. You were in Himalayas with LS. He did the exact same thing there, lost his head to the point where he almost got in trouble for behaviour. Look at Tictock's post on LS's behaviour (about geript/wraith/etc). Do you think Tictock is misleading here or in any part of that post? Or the way he's describing why he doesn't believe the claim? | ||
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On September 22 2015 06:21 Vivax wrote: Not really mentioning LS' claim there Damdred. Just that you think he should be lynched. Gotta check if TickTock went more into detail with his LS stuff Back. Yes Tictock did and I contested that. | ||
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On September 22 2015 06:11 Damdred wrote: Tbh ls has expressed to me recently he's looking at ways to improve both his metas because of proddings by players. So there are some things like the yelling etc that could be produced under scum maybe. I've looked at tt post a couple times and I like the post tbh it is pretty well reasoned and leads to a good conclusion. And I don't think.much on ls not having reads to the extent I'm used to. He's just focusing rather than evolving. Rels, I cannot verify nor am I aware of the bolded. Damdred, was this in a particular game? or post-game? or ts3? LS, is this true? | ||
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On September 22 2015 06:35 Bill Murray wrote: i have food poisoning... dont expect the activity i just had yesterday, today Holy shit, I had that last weekend, that sucks. I swear I didn't jinx you yesterday. Get better soon. | ||
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Votes: Damdred: 7 (Bill Murray, Rels, LightningStrike, Vivax, Rayn, Half the Sky, Fidei86) LightningStrike: 0 ( IML votes in bold. | ||
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Tictock, Fecalfeast, Damdred all yet to vote. Interesting. | ||
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On September 22 2015 06:41 LightningStrike wrote: HTS do you mind if I had posted about the OGI stuff that you didn't finish talking about? I don't mind - I was more conscious of you because this affects you outside the game way more than it does me. | ||
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On September 22 2015 06:42 Tictock wrote: Holy shit this, I didn't even think about that. Geript wasn't dead till daypost how could he have haunted LS? He said he received a PM at the daypost. | ||
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(Again, I realise this is a no-flip game, but I dunno why he won't use at least the next 5 minutes to figure out who might be on a team with LS.) | ||
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On September 22 2015 06:51 Tictock wrote: Putting my vote on LS kus I honestly think he make a fakeclaim here. Lynching Damdred isn't bad either, but I know I missed stuff from him. ...................................................................... | ||
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On September 22 2015 06:52 Damdred wrote: Fuck it in the I quisitor and have a red check on ls. It sucks but just shoot him tonight or lynch him tommorow if shining was scum. Sorry I was afk due to rl stuff. ......................................................................................... | ||
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WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? | ||
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Zero. | ||
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No, no, no, no, no. Not happening. Die scummer. | ||
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Votes: Damdred: 8 (Bill Murray, Rels, LightningStrike, Vivax, Rayn, Half the Sky, Fidei86, Fecalfeast) LightningStrike: 2 ( IML votes in bold. For future reference. | ||
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2h20m left until EoD Damdred: 4 (Bill Murray, Rels, LightningStrike, Vivax) LightningStrike: 2 (raynpelikoneet, FecalFeast) 21m left Damdred: 7 (Bill Murray, Rels, LightningStrike, Vivax, Rayn, Half the Sky, Fidei86) LightningStrike: 0 ( Final Damdred: 8 (Bill Murray, Rels, LightningStrike, Vivax, Rayn, Half the Sky, Fidei86, Fecalfeast) LightningStrike: 2 ( IML votes in bold. I know someone said they mentioned Tictock looked bad from this and possibly Fidei and Fecalfeast since there was near zero resistance to this lynch at the end. I know I had my vote on Damdred then I unvoted and re-voted him again. Preliminary thoughts. Nice work angel crew. | ||
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I was pretty convinced Damdred was scum based on the entirety of his gameplay. Tictock, I'm not thrilled so far with his D3 posting, but I'll be able to look through the BM TMI issues Rels brought up when I'm back home. And Rels, Palmar's normal games are generally swingy, they punish mistakes by either alignment pretty hard. This is my first time in one of his themed games though. | ||
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I am the 5th vote. How many more do we need? | ||
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Nevermind, we only needed five. LOL at the train rayn. | ||
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ggs also massive fail on my part for hammering BM...I should have taken more time instead of hammering right out of barre >_< | ||
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On September 26 2015 04:09 The Shining wrote: Gg WP scum. Rels had me fooled. Getting killed as Cop d1 really hurt my soul =\ cuz I was already scumming Damdred, ezpz lynch D2. Least I caught Damdy lol...ahwell, onto the next. Yeah I honestly don't know why Dandel killed you. That was really lame :/ | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On September 26 2015 05:29 Fidei86 wrote: In fairness to me, I was actually spending all my mafia time on Newbie. But yeah. Sorrrrry. Yeah you were but it also got to a point where anything you did beyond D2 was NAI because of it. And the longer you did that, I was going to push you. Evil James. | ||
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