TL Mafia LXXII: Gaiden 2

On August 24 2015 18:35 Fidei86 wrote:
Okay so this roster actually looks really good. If I /in, do people promise no spamerino? Because I just don't have the energy to keep up with another game like Himalayas.

On August 11 2015 17:00 Blazinghand wrote:
4) raynpelikoneet
10) marvellosity
11) justanothertownie

On August 26 2015 07:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ladies.

On August 26 2015 23:13 Palmar wrote:
Wave is a shitty has-been player anyway

On August 27 2015 00:55 WaveofShadow wrote:
Which brings me to

Fucking brutal guys.
Is all of that really necessary?

I actually have gained some confidence in my play for once and I refuse to let it be crushed by the likes of you. Unfortunately the fact that I'm not here means if either of the aforementioned are scum I won't have contributed at all to their lynches which is super bleh.

##vote: JAT

On August 27 2015 01:00 Vivax wrote:




What marv said until the last post:





Speaking about additional comments with no basis, Trfel makes it into the candidates for the D1 lynch.

On August 27 2015 00:55 WaveofShadow wrote:

##unvote
Should have just said marv/Palmar dominated game.
Which is fine I suppose since they're both extremely likely to be town at this point.

On August 27 2015 01:03 WaveofShadow wrote:

You're sweet.
I'm way better at scum than to blindly sheep.

I've only ever been officially caught ONCE as scum and it was by Palmar, therefore I afford him a measure of respect on his D1 bullshit, enough to sheep him on what appears to be a fairly decent read.

On August 27 2015 01:12 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ah thought marv ninja voted in the thread but it was rsoul.
Well either way I'm still ok with it.

I mean you're welcome to defend/deflect by pushing me JAT.
Bring it.

On August 27 2015 01:06 WaveofShadow wrote:

On the basis that they took over the thread entirely.
Unless they are BOTH scum and are playing beyond both of their usual abilities which to me frankly seems near impossible, it's extremely unlikely based on their interactions that one of them is scum and the other isn't.

On August 27 2015 01:41 WaveofShadow wrote:

Because they can both read each other extremely well and due to the amount of back-and-forth they have already had, it's likely that one would have found something about the other strange already.

On August 27 2015 01:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
No wait.
Dumb.
Shadow game.

On August 27 2015 01:40 WaveofShadow wrote:
Rsoul!!
Hi!!!
Hi!!!!!!!
Let's play so I can be not mad at you anymore.
Talk to me about stuff.

Thoughts on Cheesecake?
Moosy?

On August 27 2015 01:59 WaveofShadow wrote:

Yeh that was a very good one.
One of the best games I've ever had the pleasure of playing in.

Marv do you not think that VE has similar cohones to me in that he does not fear taking you/Palmar on as scum?
I don't think Palmar's OMGUS has any particular true reason behind it but I don't think VE is ruled out.

On August 27 2015 01:59 justanothertownie wrote:

There is literally 0 reason for rfel to say that at this point. It is pure filler. You pinging me out for this is puke-worthy.

On August 27 2015 02:03 Palmar wrote:
jat say "trfel is confirmed town" and maybe I'll back off.

On August 27 2015 02:01 WaveofShadow wrote:


Eugh.
I mean I guess the disconnect between older and newer players exists in this game.
You probably are also more experienced with the 'good' wave than the bad one and know less about older players (hence the me being mad at you ) so you're less likely to find moosy's early praises of me strange...? Or maybe I'm just biased.

On August 27 2015 02:03 justanothertownie wrote:

No, it really doesn't. Because Trfel did not know this.

On August 26 2015 11:54 rsoultin wrote:


nothing

shower/do some work/maybe sleep first <- the nod to the timezone marv is in where i don't expect him to be that active right now

reference to the scum qt <- finding it odd that wave is already pushing for a marv lynch

and no, i don't protest. because i find it much more likely that a scum wave is bussing a scum marv than a scum wave is stupidly pushing a town marv, or a town wave isn't sharp enough to realize that a town marv shouldn't be expected to be active in the wee hours of the morning

On August 26 2015 12:01 rsoultin wrote:
truffle you aren't talking to me >>

On August 26 2015 13:21 Trfel wrote:
Family comes first, sorry.

I'll be more active in maybe another hour and a half, if you're still awake then. Otherwise, I'm interested to see what Palmar has to say about marvellosity.

On August 27 2015 02:12 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like MAYBE I can see Moosy giving lynch wagon credit to rsoul.
Maybe.
But me?

And since I've come back Moosy has asked me a few random questions that just seem really disjointed---like i don't get the feeling of why he needed me to come back in the first place so urgently.

On August 27 2015 02:35 rsoultin wrote:


i've got town feels on him but i'd have to glance back at what i scanned during lunch to remember why lol >< i think it's how he responded to the pressure + just sheepled without being all super!town about it

wave seems insanely conscious how he looks when he's scum...even in gaiden he had a strangely good thumb on the pulse of thread sentiment while being basically afk...people outside the scum team may think it was just lazy but the calculation there was impressive to me

On August 27 2015 03:19 WaveofShadow wrote:

Do I have reason to trust your trfel-whisperer thing?
Don't you claim to have reads like that on other people too like brehske or something?
Are those truly always right?

I don't remember.

On August 27 2015 00:55 WaveofShadow wrote:

##unvote
Should have just said marv/Palmar dominated game.
Which is fine I suppose since they're both extremely likely to be town at this point.

Let's see.
Welcome back CC.
First thoughts are that he's town because I remember him posting similarly to this in a couple of towngames we played together, that being said there is ONE old-as-hell scumgame of his I want to look back at (where he ragequit eventually 'cause his team was shitty or something?) because what someone (marv?) said about him being more coherent as scum could be true but I truly don't remember. 2-year-old meta meh anyway but I have re-embraced the use of meta recently to decent effect so we'll see. Tentative townread for the moment.

Rsoul extremely likely to be town from interactions.

Scummiest people stand out to me as JAT because the last time I remember Palmar going like this on anyone, it was on me when I was scum when nobody else ever catches me.
Moosy because pocketing efforts when I am the only one in this game he knows to be 'good.'
I say 'good' because I have been SUPER on point in the last whole bunch of games I've played (as both alignments for once) and Moosy correctly realizes that I could be a threat based on that.

Which brings me to

Fucking brutal guys.
Is all of that really necessary?

I actually have gained some confidence in my play for once and I refuse to let it be crushed by the likes of you. Unfortunately the fact that I'm not here means if either of the aforementioned are scum I won't have contributed at all to their lynches which is super bleh.

##vote: JAT

On August 27 2015 01:03 WaveofShadow wrote:

You're sweet.
I'm way better at scum than to blindly sheep.

I've only ever been officially caught ONCE as scum and it was by Palmar, therefore I afford him a measure of respect on his D1 bullshit, enough to sheep him on what appears to be a fairly decent read.

On August 27 2015 01:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
I don't really have much to say about that specifically.
Palmar and marv have a super special bromance together that I can't explain accurately in any real detail. The way it seems to me is that Palmar tosses out reads super early just 'cause, some of which may be accurate and some of which might not be but he sticks with them and forces them if necessary, and re-evaluates in secret. In the scumgame where he caught me even though he forced his read on me all game he was actually constantly re-evaluating based on what was going on in game as was evidenced by his posting.

For a read on marv if I had to guess it's easier to assume he's town (even based on very little/nothing) and take it back later on if he just so happens to be wrong, but all of the posting they have done has in all likelihood shown that he is right.

As for how this relates to Trfel/rsoul.....dunno.

On August 27 2015 05:31 WaveofShadow wrote:
I mean it's pretty obvious that I'm hinging my vote right now on Palmar's insistence that JAT is scum and the 'weak meta read' as you say is enough for me for my vote to stay there.

I'm sorry if you'd like for there to be more bu there isn't. If that makes me scum then go ahead.

On August 27 2015 02:29 KelsierSC wrote:


fine i'll go read it properly

i get off on cheesecakes posting , it actually makes sense when I read it

On August 27 2015 02:56 rsoultin wrote:
i dunnae people seem to be scumreading moosy for things that i'd expect new players to get scumread for as town :/ i'm really not sold on that

On August 27 2015 07:35 marvellosity wrote:
i think you look quite good too, wave, i like how your posts read

On August 27 2015 07:36 marvellosity wrote:

^ they remind me of when I replaced into YOSO really late, and I became really convinced you were town and defended you accordingly because when I filtered you, all your posts just read really well.

so i really hope you're not making a fool of me this game. or if you are, i manage to catch on

On August 27 2015 07:38 WaveofShadow wrote:

Unfortunately I can't really help you there. I don't think you've ever beaten me when you were town and I was scum :D

On August 27 2015 07:46 WaveofShadow wrote:

I'll give proper thoughts later but as I recall he hasn't done that much since I asked, has he?

On August 27 2015 08:19 justanothertownie wrote:

Hopeless didn't even post yet. How could you possibly have any kind of read on him?

On August 27 2015 11:09 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Decondou and boxer are more scummy than Hopeless, if you want to talk about people that have a few posts. The info about hopeless is literally all OGI and irrelevant to this game imo

On August 27 2015 23:21 WaveofShadow wrote:
I mean now I just wanna lynch JAT cause PJsalt.
Wouldn't lynch moosy anymore, will check up on CC meta at some point but wouldn't lynch either today anyway.

I guess Trfel is the other choice atm? VE's recent find is good but for whatever reason I'm not super convinced. Can't explain why.

Also vivax asking after me in that weird way is really indicative of something in his play but now I forget what it is. I remember seeing it a game we played semi-recently and it helped me read him but bleh

On August 27 2015 21:56 marvellosity wrote:
I can pay attention in fits and starts while i'm at work (next 4 hours) and then in the couple hours leading up to deadline i guess.

On August 27 2015 23:31 WaveofShadow wrote:
KSC also hinging on CCs nit-picking points as a reason to lynch me makes him look even worse imo.
He even voted me before CCs huge case iirc and now he uses that to justify

Rsoul I think it was with you we talked about ksc? And I think at the time I felt I was maybe being unreasonable and you convinced me. Still think the same about ksc?

On August 27 2015 23:33 WaveofShadow wrote:

Thank you, I do quite like it.

On August 27 2015 23:36 WaveofShadow wrote:

Of course.i don't think he's scum anymore for the post when I said so.

On August 27 2015 12:46 WaveofShadow wrote:

Damn.
Scumread evaporated.

On August 27 2015 23:44 WaveofShadow wrote:
JAT question for you.
Do you actually think I'm scum?
Because I'm not sure if I remember you mentioning it anywhere.
If so, is it anything independent of CC?

On August 27 2015 23:47 WaveofShadow wrote:

Yarp.
Because of all new players, moosy is the most likely one to act like a super new player and apologize for suboptimal play. Could be a ploy on his own meta but I super doubt it based on what I've seen of him before.

On August 27 2015 23:45 WaveofShadow wrote:

How does that invalidate his case?
Plus he filter dives everyone as scum Tina.
Go get some ham.

On August 27 2015 23:51 WaveofShadow wrote:

It doesn't invalidate his case but maybe you pinpoint why I'm unconvinced by it.

On August 27 2015 23:53 WaveofShadow wrote:

Wut
Explain this plz
For.... future reference

On August 27 2015 23:54 KelsierSC wrote:


what mean you?

On August 27 2015 23:55 WaveofShadow wrote:

I disagree with this.
He got hardread town by an entire game by posting in exactly that way.

On August 27 2015 23:58 rsoultin wrote:


Why would he do this as scum?

On August 28 2015 00:00 VisceraEyes wrote:

Why wouldn't he? He knows I'm town and (I think) JAT is town, and he doesn't want the full force of either of us bearing down on him. So he votes for someone else, hides his "reasoning" in spoilers and crosses his fingers.

Why would he do this as town?

On August 28 2015 00:03 WaveofShadow wrote:
I am absolutely loving this game.
Thanks for playing with me, friends.

On August 28 2015 00:04 rsoultin wrote:


Not really. Hopeless was utter shit with us I don't find it surprising truffle thinks that and he could even be right lol

On August 28 2015 00:06 WaveofShadow wrote:

HAHAHAHh
AND YOU THINK I'M SCUM FOR SAYING PALMARS JAT READ WAS PRETTY GOOD

HAHAHAHSHSH

On August 28 2015 00:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
OH yeah I cut my hair yesterday. I'm like, extra special super sexy now!

On August 28 2015 00:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
But seriously does no one see that?
Ksc calls Trfel hopeless read pretty good, and yet somehow me saying the same on palmar makes me scum.

On August 28 2015 00:29 VisceraEyes wrote:
Currently Palmar is fucking JAT.

On August 28 2015 00:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
And also now that I'm at my computer based on Thug Life CC could very well be scum but meh

Now my high is gone

On August 28 2015 00:38 WaveofShadow wrote:

Wow rude
Also I'm jewish

On August 28 2015 00:53 WaveofShadow wrote:

You asked me to explain why I looked back into a past game to call him scum based on meta, I showed you why.

On August 28 2015 01:18 WaveofShadow wrote:

also marv when you read me like that how is it you never get me lynched

On August 26 2015 20:26 KelsierSC wrote:


VE made the point about marv playing like palmar and trefl was questioning him
plus marv was a point of contention so the question isn't really that strange.

On August 26 2015 07:25 marvellosity wrote:
heya

On August 26 2015 08:50 marvellosity wrote:
this is delightful.

On August 26 2015 22:22 rsoultin wrote:
no it means the reason for your townread is bad, and if the reason for your townread is bad and there are reasons to think he's mafia you shouldn't be an rsoul and wait until the night before lylo to go oh shit i'm a numbnuts and now the guy who always wants to lynch me in lylo has to be convinced i'm just a numbnuts and not mafia and we should lynch the guy i was derping on @.@

On August 26 2015 20:26 KelsierSC wrote:


VE made the point about marv playing like palmar and trefl was questioning him
plus marv was a point of contention so the question isn't really that strange.

On August 26 2015 07:25 marvellosity wrote:
heya

On August 26 2015 08:50 marvellosity wrote:
this is delightful.

On August 26 2015 22:22 rsoultin wrote:
no it means the reason for your townread is bad, and if the reason for your townread is bad and there are reasons to think he's mafia you shouldn't be an rsoul and wait until the night before lylo to go oh shit i'm a numbnuts and now the guy who always wants to lynch me in lylo has to be convinced i'm just a numbnuts and not mafia and we should lynch the guy i was derping on @.@

On August 27 2015 01:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
For a read on marv if I had to guess it's easier to assume he's town (even based on very little/nothing) and take it back later on if he just so happens to be wrong, but all of the posting they have done has in all likelihood shown that he is right.

On August 27 2015 02:22 Palmar wrote:

Explain exactly why you think CC is mafia.

On August 27 2015 08:07 marvellosity wrote:
no it was world championships i was referring to

but then this leads to another thought that i have to explain, and it's really not worth it but it doesn't matter enough :p

maybe i'll flick through russia today, but my thoughts about recent games with you as town are as above ^^

I do understand you're being tunnelled and that's difficult (as either alignment) which is why i'm not hardcore on you, because if you'd played this unproductively regarding reads/posts and you weren't under a lot of pressure, i'd think you were very very likely mafia

On August 27 2015 18:02 Trfel wrote:
And yes, I do? Because I'm obviously town?

On August 28 2015 01:58 WaveofShadow wrote:
Who fucked up formatting.
JAT


So...a few of us established that this itself isn't the weirdest thing Trfel could have asked. At the very least some plausible explanations were offered, but JAT is having none of it and just deeptunnels based on this alone. I really would expect JAT as town to be more reasonable and consider other options than to tunnel in this way. I am aware he can be stubborn and have a stick where the sun don't shine at times, but he's not even necessarily being that way, just...oddly obstinate about something seemingly minor.


This looks like townJAT


This is one post JAT makes (and apparently Kelsier too) where I say something seemingly simple (to me at least) that they call me scummy for but marv very reasonably is able to point out the correct thought process/point I am trying to make. Can't tell if this is deliberate on either of their accounts because it's just weird. It's hard for me to tell from a non-biased point of view whether the points people are confused about SHOULD be things that anyone should EASILY be able to pick up on but they're being nitpicked 'cause scum or bad.

I think this would be indicative if I could remember whether or not this is something JAT normally does---I feel like it is so maybe it's not indicative? I know for someone like HF it's completely non-indicative because he does that shit all the time to everyone.

I should re-interate here that I think it's a little harder for me to read JAT this game because of the early pressure he's getting. Marv/rsoul made it very clear that they would have expected WAY more from him at this point were he town and I agree but I also think it's possible that JAT isn't just playing drama queen and playing up his stubbornness/anger to avoid doing stuff, but I truly do think JAT is a better player than to go 36h with only a weak push on Trfel to show for it.



Actually there IS a little more. Some stuff on CC, etc


A LOT of these appeals throughout. No likey.


Thought process is interesting but it really COULD just be town Trfel acting like this JAT immediately tosses it out.

(Side note, that post where marv tells JAT exactly what he wants to hear about everyone being idiots and stuff made me want to lynch JAT SO BADLY just to be able to read the salt from either alignment postgame in the obs QT)

I had the idea going into this that JAT was completely unreasonable and only did stuff when prodded a couple hours ago but that honestly seems to be untrue. I can't comfortably be rid of the fact that he could be scum simply based on Palmar's convictions and the couple bad things I see in here, coupled with the fact that JAT is overall a solid player and has done nothing in this game he couldn't have done as either alignment. I also don't like that he's latched onto me because he's obviously wrong but he seems to be increasingly reasonable about my play (which is sort of a trend given CC's recent post. Less so Kelsier because he keeps prodding me and I have no idea to what end) I think ultimately I continue to sheep my betters here whatever they decide on JAT but he's not clear scum by any means.

I think I might like a Hopeless lynch better

On August 28 2015 02:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like...self analysis but why the fuck would I ever go back and do a huge analysis only to OPENLY admit I am still sheeping, SAME as I did earlier, and openly admit I have no good conclusions? It's just to shift blame to Palmar and make myself look 'good?' You think that post is in any way going to make me look good?

SO frustrating that people continue to hinge on 'wishy-washy' as some indicator of scum.

On August 28 2015 02:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like...self analysis but why the fuck would I ever go back and do a huge analysis only to OPENLY admit I am still sheeping, SAME as I did earlier, and openly admit I have no good conclusions? It's just to shift blame to Palmar and make myself look 'good?' You think that post is in any way going to make me look good?

SO frustrating that people continue to hinge on 'wishy-washy' as some indicator of scum.

On August 28 2015 02:18 WaveofShadow wrote:
CC did my seemingly 'do-nothing' case on JAT somehow convince you?
How does that change your insistence that me thinking Palmar's 'pretty good' thing was scummy?

On August 28 2015 02:29 KelsierSC wrote:


So you have a townread on him and then that just disappears because, you read a scum game ?

like you actually need to explain more than that, I can say oh I townread wave, but then I read a game where wave was scum and so he is scum here, it doesn't make any fucking sense

like actually explain this shit to me beacuse it just sounds like you want to try and scum read him rather than actually having a reason.

On August 28 2015 02:31 WaveofShadow wrote:
Nope.
Done.


I don't really see how anything I do though just in that one case changes what your original points were on me.

On August 28 2015 04:33 boxerfred wrote:

I received a PM that reminded me of voting, you're the wagon, have no time until tomorrow.

On August 28 2015 04:23 deconduo wrote:


Active doesn't mean town, so that's not really a defense.

Still not a great move to vote without giving any reason.

On August 28 2015 04:41 WaveofShadow wrote:

'Cause I read an old scumgame of his and realized the way he has been acting in this game isn't necessarily indicative of him being town like I originally thought.
Pretty null for me atm but his quickhop off of me didn't look great so scummier side atm.

On August 27 2015 10:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


It's really stupid. When he posted it in the thread --in the moment-- it felt like VE knew that JAT was town, and he was attempting to appeal to town by assuring them he wasn't voting him. Either that or he just didn't want to justify his position on JAT and wanted to put an end to the questioning. Looking back, it doesn't look like that. I was curious if anyone else had felt it

On August 28 2015 04:46 WaveofShadow wrote:

Oh wait a minute.
I forgot to comment on this.
When you posted this I HADN'T started to scumread CC.
Where did you get this from?

On August 28 2015 04:52 WaveofShadow wrote:

I think all I literally said there is 'not impressed' and then commented on nitpicking.
Not quite sure where you got the scumread from, and from your posting you seem to suspect me pretty heavily starting from there...?

On August 28 2015 04:57 WaveofShadow wrote:

Who did I ask to look at CC?

On August 27 2015 01:40 WaveofShadow wrote:
Rsoul!!
Hi!!!
Hi!!!!!!!
Let's play so I can be not mad at you anymore.
Talk to me about stuff.

Thoughts on Cheesecake?
Moosy?

On August 28 2015 05:04 marvellosity wrote:
weird as shit scummy weird as shit?
or weird as shit vivax weird as shit

On August 28 2015 05:09 WaveofShadow wrote:

Like, if Vivax is scum then he purposefully creates this narrative where I'm scum who flipflops an imaginary read on CC?
WHy else does he call me scum in this game again


I think this is the only post where he mentions he could lynch nme and it seems to be solely for that reason.

marv you read vivax better than me. i dunno

On August 28 2015 05:15 WaveofShadow wrote:

Well what do you think?

On August 28 2015 05:33 Vivax wrote:


Do explain in detail, we need to consolidate. Can I warm you up for a Trfel lynch? BF and hopeless feel more craphshooty than him.

On August 28 2015 05:35 WaveofShadow wrote:

If you're wrong on Trfel I reserve the right to not listen to your weird 90% tone reads (not that I'm listening to them now)

On August 29 2015 00:34 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh yeah and VE.
VE I wanna do some teaming up with you.
Not only can we get shit done I think it will help me cement my read on you one way or another.

On August 29 2015 00:41 WaveofShadow wrote:

Yes and there's been a good reason for it. Unfortunately it means either someone (or someones) playing very well, likely beyond what would e expected of them, or we were right to lynch into those guys in the first place and we'll get there.

Also I don't think it includes everyone because I'm only included for some people, cc isn't included, Trfel and ksc aren't included.

On August 29 2015 00:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
VE time to detunnel.
Also palmar I assert that Trfel is only allowed to be 95% town if I am.

On August 29 2015 00:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
VE time to detunnel.
Also palmar I assert that Trfel is only allowed to be 95% town if I am.

On August 29 2015 01:13 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm not sheeping palmar on Trfel but you're welcome to.

On August 29 2015 01:41 VisceraEyes wrote:
I hope we're not all waiting on me. I'm definitely not trying to re-read the game in less than twelve hours, not with my schedule anyway. I'll do so if I live through the night.

In the meantime we can talk about players like Hopeless and decon. Players who have no horse in the race as it were with regard to Palmar/Trfel.

For starters I thought the way Hopeless opened the night with "Well I'm fucked" was a little awkward in a guilty-conscience sort of way. Taken with his entrance to the tread, I think there could be a good chance of him flipping mafia. Thoughts?

On August 27 2015 18:59 marvellosity wrote:
off you toddle then.

boxerfred, I'm so glad you signed up for this game, your effort, dedication and wit that you've brought to this particular episode are truly a joy

On August 28 2015 04:34 KelsierSC wrote:


well you're here now and you are being a fucking retard

On August 29 2015 01:47 WaveofShadow wrote:

What filter?
All I got from him was the need to deliberately antagonize the people in this game.