As long as you haven't been smoking whatever Artanis has been smoking ...
[M][T] The New Personality Mafia
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
As long as you haven't been smoking whatever Artanis has been smoking ... | ||
Fidei86
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
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Fidei86
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[serious]This game started while I was out with friends, and am currently quite toasty. Will read tomorrow and revert.[/serious] | ||
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Fidei86
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Geript wishes he was me. | ||
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Fidei86
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1. Don't play mafia when you're drunk. I basically just skimmed the threads last night, and missed most of it apparently. 2. The set-up of this game seems to me to be inherently mafia favoured. As town, everyone is mostly just excited to troll whoever's name they pulled up for all of the things that that person is perceived to do badly. I did exactly that last night. But (I) that distracts from finding mafia, (II) it allows mafia to blend in by just carrying along with the jester-like banter and, most importantly, (III) it is hard enough to spot slips or mafia tells in someone when they are just playing normally, let alone when they are impersonating someone else. 3. Following on from 2, I think that the game has to very quickly move towards the stage where town say "okay, screwing around pretending to be X or Y was fun for a day, but it's time to engage try-hard mode now." If we don't, we're going to wander aimlessly towards a lynch deadline with no mafia being pressured, no reads being forced out and generally no progress being made whatsoever. 4. If people continue to insist on posting "in character" much further, I think that is good reason to start scum reading them. 5. 3 and 4 only apply for people who are keen to win. There's nothing wrong with joining the game just to have fun goofing around as someone else. But I'm definitely in the 'tryhard' category, and will be playing as such. 6. I was accused last night by Ritoky of basically doing a bad parody of the person I was assigned. I plead guilty to that, for sure. The fact is, I have played a couple of games with the person I got, and I think they are a good player and they seem to be a nice person. But I don't really *know* them. But there's a broader point here - for newer players (like me) it's hard enough to try and work out whether someone is mafia or town based on their own play, let alone on when that person is being impersonated by someone else. Yeah, if you've played like 30 games with, say, Ritoky, you'd probably be well enough versed in his meta to guess whether someone impersonating him was town or mafia. But I haven't. I don't have any reads yet because I can't identify who people are impersonating and whether or not those impersonations are good or bad and whether or not the things I think that are scum tells are actually just exaggerated parodies (case in point is my crappy attempt at parody last night). It also doesn't help that I haven't played with most of you before, and those of you who I would claim to 'know' better (TT, HTS, Damdred) are all in heavy role-play mode atm. All of the above has led me to the point where I've settled in my mind a little bit more clearly what I am looking for, and I'll try and go back over everything that has gone before this evening. The point of this post was just to get these thoughts out there, because I think they're important. And yes, I do recognise that a long self-analysis meta post can be a scum sign. Hopefully those of you who have played town with me will recognise that I always over-explain/over-think, but also that I like to share my thought processes all the time, even when they aren't super helpful, as that way people can better follow and interpret what I say and do later on. | ||
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Response to Ritoky's case on me Ritoky accused me of not properly responding to his case on me. So here it is. 1. "Notice me Senpai". I was really drunk (Yamato can attest to this, given my stupid antics in voice mafia). I was trying to do an impression of someone and it was lame. My final sentence (I'll come back tomorrow) was an attempt at an explanation for why I wasn't posting then. If I don't follow up then sure, that's a mafia tell. But if I do, it's NAI. 2. See 1. 3. The only really distinctive thing about the person I rolled (at least that I'm aware of, having only played one serious game with them) is that they claim to be able to soul read you. It was a complete coincidence that you happened to "RNG" me. Indeed, it wouldn't be RNG if you hadn't randomly chosen me. (4) I disagree that people sticking to their roleplay are more likely to be town. As I said before, sticking to a roleplay and pushing lynches for "roleplay lol" reasons is a really easy way to avoid actually playing the game of mafia. I *do* agree that it would be risky IF everyone else wasn't doing it and you were. Plainly that's not the case here. Blending in is much easier if you go along with it, rather than breaking out like I did. (5) I didn't have a scum read on you. I was saying that because I was drunk and because I was trying to copy what the person who I rolled has said before. It was stupid and I shouldn't have done it. See 1. (6) The first thing I ever knew about the "Chezinu" rule was Onegu spamming stupid pictures in Holy Guardians. I have never actually played a game with Chezinu. So I was looking for someone who was doing that. I didn't know that Chezinu's trolling actually involved quasi-stoned ramblings. Obviously now I do know that. Also, I was drunk, and didn't see that people were already tagging Damdred as Chezinu. Tubesock was right - I wasn't seriously reading the thread. Because I was drunk. (7) I disagree that, at the time of Ritoky's first post, this was actually a real mafia game. I've just been through the posts up until that point. Most people hadn't posted anything of substance. Those that had were plainly trying to emulate the person that they had rolled. I can make very little out of it even now, while sober and carefully reading the thread. I had literally no chance last night. See 1. (8) I want to briefly address whether or not Ritoky would pretend to RNG me. I've played with Ritoky twice, but the second (himalayas) doesn't count because I was terrible town in that game until way after he got NKed. But in the first game, which was my first game too, basically I made all sorts of stupid newbie posts and mistakes and ritoky was scum softing me until he got NKed n1. I also said after himalayas that I really struggled because the game was big (although there was much much much more spam in tha game). This game is also big. So I think it's reasonable that he might have tagged me early as easy mis-lynch bait. The fact that I played into his hands with a pretty misguided thread entry only goes to show that he might have been onto something. But ... meh. It's hard for me to judge because he's going after me, so it's difficult to be totally objective. Anyone who was in Holy Guardians (VE, Damdred, TickTock) are better judges of this than me. Current thoughts on the game Disclaimer: I work as a lawyer with pretty long days. I can check the thread and play at lunchtimes, and in a quieter game where I feel more comfortable with my reads, I'm happy to jump into the discourse when I get a moment (bathroom breaks, etc). But I just worked all day and so have spent the evening re-reading the thread and jotting down thoughts. It's easier for me to do this in one massive post than do fifty posts. The Lurkers / Spammers The trouble I am having at the moment is that a lot of people are spamming off-topic one liners, which say nothing and add nothing to the debate. The following people fall squarely into that category: TheShining WaveofShadow yamato ObiWanShinobi Lord Tolkien Beneather KelsierSC Chezinu Vayne Authority The only one of those I have played with before that I can remember is Kelsier. In the one game I played with him (Himalayas) he was town, but basically did the same as he's doing now (contributing nothing, saying nothing). Maybe this is just how he plays. But it's still NAI - lurking is the easiest 'meta' to replicate as either alignment. Beneather literally hasn't posted in the thread at all. Presumably he'll be modkilled. The rest of them have to go into the 'scum lean' pile, in lieu of them having done nothing to deserve a town read. Town Reads JudgeJudy - at a guess I'd say he's impersonating ritoky. And he's doing a good job. Town ritoky is a fairly obvious read, I think (he screws around a little bit, then asks pertinent and cutting questions). That's what JJ is doing here. Geript - Was mostly one-linering until his last two posts, where he offers a sensible set of reads. He says that Ruxx's play is bad/dumb newbie, and that's what I see as well. He questions ritoky's push on me for sensible reasons (albeit that they were already pushed by Breshke). He states the obvious that trying to get a read on Damdred right now is dumb. Damdred is in full-on troll/Chez mode, which has to be entirely NAI (if it continues, it'll be scum, but as I noted above, everyone is still doing the full roleplay thing). I have no idea whether his Chez read is accurate (never having played with Chez), but it feels genuine. Breshke - I'm probably a little bit pocketed, but I like that he started the "what is ritoky really up to" line of thought. Ritoky's push on me is, aside from Ruxx's incredibly weird behaviour, one of the key moments of d1 (For me at least). Breshke challenging it therefore seems towny to me. Scum/Scum lean Rels - His thread entry (#465) was weird. He pushes Ruxxar based on HTS' read, then pushes me based on Ritoky's post. No real evidence of original thought or analysis. Ritoky - Ritoky is one of the best town players that I've seen. When he was town in Holy Guardian, everything he said looking back on it was massively town. He was (after a spammy start) insightful and gave lots of reasons for his reads and interacted with the thread fluidly. Well, this game is the opposite. He is pushing me - fair enough. But, as others have pointed out, what else has he done? I hope that, after I post the fuller response above, he broadens his search a little bit. For now, on the fact that his contribution level is so wildly different to previous games I have seen, I'm thinking he might be covering for a mafia roll. TickTock - Poor TT must be tired of me scum reading him (I have done in both previous games we've played together). This time, however, my reasons are pretty different. Before, I've accused TT of "going 100kph in a 30kph zone". This time, my notes of his key posts are as follows: TE: Calls out Ruxxar for shitty meta list (#387) Weird sexual references, says he likes Ritoky's case on me (#415) Sheeps HTS' read on Ruxx (#467) Tries to read into what Damdred was saying. Says I ignored Damdred. (#475) I really don't think it's possible to read anything into Damdred's play yet. Other than that, he has sheeped two people's cases, and jumped onto the Ruxxar 'wagon' which, as I've said above, is premature. Tubesock - There's a pattern emerging here - everyone who I'm scum reading is scum reading me. Hopefully this isn't because I'm OMGUSing (I haven't really done that in previous games, I don't think, although I've never really been pushed hard before, honestly). Still, Tubesock's contribution here has been to flip-flop on the Chezinu rule (#242, #246), vote for me for not reading the game (fair enough, I suppose, I did miss the Damdred=Chezinu calls). and then to (without giving proper reasons) town read Chez, Breshke, Ritoky, Damdred. (#448) I don't see how anyone can seriously have a strong read on Chez or Damdred right now. Chez hasn't said enough, and Damdred has been impersonating Chez. In that post he also sort of wanders around a TickTock read and ends up nowhere. The rest of his posts are mostly meh questions ("You still scum Damdred? What do you think of TickTock?") (#451). His last post on JJ seemed at least a bit more constructive, but hardly persuasive - JJ has been super towny in spurts, but it's hardly fair to expect someone to be on all day to respond. FecalFeast - This read isn't just because he's rushing around all over the place, changing his reads on a whim. It's also because of his post where he says that "scum are spewing him" as town (#447). It is possible I missed it, but where has anyone been townreading FF? Show me the link and I'll stand corrected, but otherwise I think this reads like a clumbsy way to try and get yourself thought of as town, without actually doing anything. Null Half the Sky - I like HTS OG, we play dota together. So I'm always going to be loath to scum read her. She seems to have at least put some thought into some of her reads (ie ritoky, ruxxar-ish), but others are pretty lacklustre (JJ, shining, Rels). Could be the result of adopting the meta of whoever she rolled. I know HTS is a strong player, so willing to give the benefit of the doubt (ie is playing badly because of role play, rather than because mafia). Ruxxar - I really like what Geript wrote about Ruxxar, it's just too dumb to actually be mafia. More likely it's a weird attempt to emulate meta. But others who have played with him will know better. | ||
Fidei86
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Fidei86
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On August 20 2015 07:26 ObiWanShinobi wrote: "Scum lean on 9 people." Really. :rolleyes: You'll have to do better than that. I see no reason to town read any of the players I listed as lurkers - all have been simply spamming one-liners or otherwise not contributing. I'm sure that some will start contributing once the usual "omg spam/roleplay" phase of d1 comes to an end (which it seems to be), but I'm commenting on things as I see them now. | ||
Fidei86
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On August 20 2015 07:33 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I don't have a problem with you not reading the lurkers either way, because, frankly, it's mostly true. The fact of the matter is that there are way too many "scum leans" in your list. Narrow it down: who is scummier and why? There are, by my count, five people on my 'scum lean' list (excluding lurkers, obv). There were four mafia in Himalayas, and there were 17 players in that game. There are 21 here, so four or five mafia sounds about right (anyone with more game balancing experience care to weigh in?). Ergo my scum list is probably there or thereabouts in terms of length. Obviously it is pretty unlikely that I just called the entire scum team accurately in my first post of reads (though the post-game cred would be pretty astonishing). I'm not sure whether any of my scum reads are stronger than any others. It is early. I would probably vote for Ritoky over the others, just because of how different he is playing to usual. But there's a way to go in the day yet, and I'm hoping things firm up a little. Sorry if that's wishy-washy, it's just where I am right now. | ||
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On August 20 2015 15:07 Tictock wrote: Except he posted that 3 hours after his last post, in the middle of conversation that other people were having and then doesn't post again for 2 hours. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/491840-the-new-personality-mafia?page=33#651 I honestly don't get the reason for geripts post here. It's out of place, complains about "no one posting" but doesn't try to engage anyone who IS posting at the time. So if geript really was frustrated why does he complain about something that is clearly not true? Why doesn't he try and engadge people who are around at the time of that post. So on the surface saying "scum wouldn't care to make this post" sounds good, but when you look at that post in context it makes very little sense. Seems like a shitty reason to townread geript to me. Thing is that other players have complained about the meta of the game so far. When I did it, I followed up with a big post with reads etc. Geript didn't exactly post a WoT, but he has been giving reads, appearing to think critically etc. But what about Kelsier? Pretty much all he has said are throwaway remarks about the bad meta of the game. And he always have these without looking to engage anyone. So if you're not also scum reading him as well, that's a double standard. | ||
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Re spewing- you pointed out two people who had you in their town lists. Thanks. I retract my point, although I will say that neither of the reads you refer to stuck with me because they were throwaway references that were not explained. Is that what people mean by 'spewing'? (Honest question. I assumed it meant posting a lot about someone's alignment, but happy to be corrected.) | ||
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You said Rit's case "made your dick hard". Okay, so agreeing doesn't necessarily mean you were going to vote that way- perhaps I was using the term "sheeping" too loosely. My point on your interactions with Damdred stands. You were in HG with me, right? Do you remember how pissed I was with Onegu all game for being useless, and how I kept saying we should lynch him not because he was scum, but because it would be impossible to read him through the shit he was saying? I sort of feel the same way about Damdred here. Insofar as your post is an attempt to draw Damdred out, then I can see that's actually helpful. I didn't read it that way at first because what can you really read into his rambling so far, but you could have been pandering to his role play. I guess that means I'll move you back to null. | ||
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On August 20 2015 16:12 Tictock wrote: So when I was looking at Fidei earlier I couldn't help but notice one of his pregame posts and something he said in his defense. From Pregame: So yea, this is very possible. Obviously this lead me to reading ritoky's filter from the perspective of him being scum pushing the RNG thing as a cover to push someone he thinks will be an easy mislynch. At first it looks promising as it was all rit wanted to talk about in the first half of D1 and even now that I see rit talking about more than his RNG push he isn't really sharing any reads. However I did feel that this defense of the RNG push was pretty decent. It makes sense, it's cleaver and it fits with the overall theme of the game. Honestly this sounds a ton more likely than a scum!ritoky seeing Fidei's pregame post and deciding to push him with RNG. The fact of the matter is rit only claimed something more than RNG after Fidei entered the game, and did so in a fashion that made himself look bad. Thus I find myself still thinking the case rit made is fairly sexy, though I do question his math a bit. 30% is generouse and I find it pretty unlikely that we have more than 5 mafia, it is possible though to have 6 if there are roles to keep thing balanced. So real chance of a RNG lynch this game to hit mafia is somewhere between 25 and 30% To be fair I don't have any real strong scum reads atm. I think the case on Fidei outside of RNG is good. I have my own thinking telling me Damdred might be scum. Ruxx is super null with only a twinge of scum lean, mostly because I almost feel like he's hiding behind his role more than having fun with it but I can't really read ruxx for shit so idk. This one I hate myself for even thinking about + Show Spoiler + I told ruxx he was stupid for this, but geript really has been indirectly calling himself scum. Call it a projection read. Other than that I just think it's weird LT says he wants to sheep HtS and Rels is really weird so far too. It's hard to tell where the role play begins and ends which is making this a interesting challenge to read people. For now I'm gunna sheep the RNG I guess. ##Vote: Fidei Forgive me for summarising, but it looks like you basically say "Fidei is a self-confirmed bad player, PARTICULARLY in big games." You'll also note that in the only game we've played together that I participated in (Himalayas doesn't count) ritoky basically said "Fidei sucks, but could be noob town". But after establishing that, you then sheep his case on me anyway? Ritoky's posts since my wot are much more like what I expect from town ritoky, fwiw. | ||
Fidei86
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On August 20 2015 16:16 Tubesock wrote: What's your thinking on Damdred? Okay I have a bunch of thoughts. 1. Damdred is a strong player, especially towards the later part of the game. However his reads early on are usually quite meh. In Holy Guardians he was 100% wrong on all of reads until like d4 when he solved the game and got insta-NK'd. 2. There is no point in even bothering to parse his posts so far - they are garbage. Clearly he is role playing. Fine. But exactly as I said viz Onegu in Holy Guardians - he's easy lynch bait later on if he doesn't stop messing around. I would be pushing him harder, but there are too many people who haven't been playing the game properly (as I think of it anyway.. Pushing, giving reads, interacting on meaningful stuff) for a policy lynch to make sense. I think I had what, nine people on my 'lurker' list? Pretty sure some are Mafia, but they can't all be. 3. Damdred and ritoky always claim that they have a super good read on each other. So far, from the games I've seen, their reads on each other are usually right. So honestly if I was going to listen to someone's opinion of Damdred, it would be ritoky (especially now ritoky seems to be engaged in the game a little more). | ||
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On August 20 2015 16:25 Tictock wrote: This, plus what I said about the RNG stuff being more likely to come from town!ritoky paradying than scum!ritoky hiding and tunneling, is why I'm feel ok sheeping his case atm. Since you are around, and because I'm wavering atm (haven't even actually voted) who would you vote today? Who do you think is your strongest scumread atm Fidei? and why? A predetermined meta is literally the easiest thing to stick to. Well, perhaps it's slightly harder than just lurking, but not by much. My reads were all mostly on that sort of 'superficial' level too, so I don't think it's necessarily scummy from you, but I don't think your reasoning there is particularly sound. Let me go and read some more filters before I answer you definitively. Off the top of my head, I'd probably say Tubesock. I'll go read his filter again now. | ||
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On August 20 2015 16:20 Tictock wrote: KSC, Obi, and Yamato look like they are just being themselves to me, they kinda just don't give a shit. I haven't really played much with them (and never with yamato) but from what I've seen of them in other games this is pretty par for the course. Obi is actually a slight town read for me currently, he has made a few pokes and prods. As scum I'd describe him as "just along for the ride", in this game I feel like he's a little engadged, sorta? Idk he is definitely someone to keep an eye on though. Humm actually KSC does seem to be a little more throwaway this game than I'd like... I'll reread him a bit later. I can't recall if it was him or someone else I suspected of rolling Palmar. Kelsier keeps getting NK'd early in the games I'm in him with (Newbie, Himalayas) which is confusing because you're right, he always plays like this (not giving a shit, trolling, being passive aggressive). It really annoys me though because it doesn't help town at all and, if he is town, makes him an easy ML later on. And it annoys me even more because my guess is that he's attempting to preserve his 'meta' for when he rolls scum. It's easy for him to repeat as either alignment. The only reason I'm not pushing him is because he falls into the same camp as Damdred and the "lurkers" - there are too many of them to crack out a policy lynch agenda. | ||
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On August 20 2015 16:32 Tictock wrote: Wait what? Basically what this boils down to is that you have no opinion but would trust the person pushing on you who you said you had a scum lean on before? I get that your starting to lean town on him now, but this still feels weird to me. I'm also really confused why you keep bringing up what happened in other games when you yourself keep pointing out that almost nobody is playing like themselves... well, I do have an opinion, just not a read. And yes, I'm skeptical of ritoky this game. This interaction has actually reminded me that it is weird that they haven't been interacting at all, given how they usually do very early on. I know they're pretending to be someone else, but it is such a strong meta part of the game for both of them that I would have thought they'd find a way to weave it into their role play. Viz other games - that's just how I think. What people have done in their previous games provides me with some kind of yardstick for measuring their play. | ||
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Care to elaborate? | ||
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On August 20 2015 16:41 Tubesock wrote: Just like to point out that the bolded is so crazy untrue. If it were, then no one would use meta as everyone would play their "town" meta no matter their role. Why am I your top vote? Half the shit you scummed me for you agreed with. You know like how you weren't reading... Maybe we're talking at cross purposes? Let me try again. Going into a game with a plan on how to play REGARDLESS OF WHAT ALIGNMENT YOU ROLL is the easiest way to conceal your alignment. That is the same for ritoky spamming his RNG nonsense and Kelsier being inactive (and Onegu for his crap, though obv he isn't in the game). That's what I meant. | ||
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On August 20 2015 16:46 Tubesock wrote: Hypocrisy is delicious. So, you top scum me because you've never played with me and don't have any "hopes" shall we say of me being more town. Over KelsierSC who is nailing Batsnacks' can't give a fuck attitude. You are saying that Kels usually doesn't do shit, but gets NK'd so he must be good? Is that what I read? I'm not saying it makes sense that he keeps getting NK'd, I'm just saying that is what has happened in previous games. And this isn't Kelsier being bat - from what I've seen its what he does every game. And as to scumming you - that was my read at the time. I need to update it now but I've been stuck in this dialogue with TT. I will obviously update my reads. But I don't see that I should just refuse to give a read because I haven't played with you before? And if I caveated every read with "but I haven't played with him before" that would be tedious. And I don't need to if I'm not basing the read on meta. | ||
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On August 20 2015 16:50 Tictock wrote: I'll expound on it a little later, right now I'm rather see you doing something other than defending yourself. Fair enough. | ||
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On August 20 2015 17:05 KelsierSC wrote: I'm clearly town and you're all bad KSC I've said some pretty mean things about you in the thread so far. I accused you of wanting to protect your meta more than actually wanting to help town win. Am I wrong? | ||
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So ... Yah. The stuff that I was focussing on (the early game spam and the move onto me) seem less important now than what he has done subsequently, which aligns with my views a lot more. So now I'm thinking Tube is probably town. | ||
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Having aligned views has been a reasonable town indicator, based on my experience, which is limited. Happy to be educated if you don't agree. But with so much lurking and bad play going on, it seems like bad play to tunnel someone who actually seems to be reading the game somewhat similarly to me, surely? | ||
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Is your read on me just because you think I'm playing badly? Because I'm generally accused of that. And I admit that I'm not a good player really, at least not in these bigger games. In Himalayas I basically lurked for three days, and only got through because I rolled mason with rsoult. But do you think that scum me (in my first scum game, no less) (1) has totally unguarded, and in hindsight, pretty dumb thread entry, (2) doesn't scum read Rux immediately, who is the clear alternative wagon here and is being pushed by at least some of my town reads, and (3) doesn't try to jump enthusiastically onto the Tube wagon, which, as you said yourself literally a couple of minutes ago, would serve to pretty much exonerate me. All that in a meta where lurkers do not get punished and indeed get a free pass (not just in this game, it happens in pretty much all my games here). And if I had scum team mates, would they not either (I) be trying to direct attention elsewhere, or (II) telling me how to not be such obvious scum? | ||
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The fact that people who play like you get free passes consistently drives me nuts. Give some opinions. Try and freaking help out. Ask some questions or prod someone or at least do something other than recycling the same smarmy passive-aggressive stuff that you can't seem to get away from. | ||
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On August 20 2015 17:48 Rels wrote: Yes new (stupid) scum does just that. Yes new (stupid) scum does just that. No. Doing that if you're mafia and tubesock is town is super stupid. Hence why I think you're a team. But contrary to all those lurkers, you are a lynch candidate today. It's garanteed that if you didn't post for 24 hours you would be the lynch. The "push" on me started with ritoky's stupid RNG thing. If I'd just posted questions, a couple of town reads and generally not done anything, it would have fizzled out. And none of your reasoning above excludes stupid town, except the bit where you say I have to be town if Tube is scum, which you think he is, but then you think we're on a team? Tube was on me from the start, and has only been pushing me basically - he has no other scum reads. If this is a bus strategy then it has started super early. I've never rolled mafia or seen a super early bus strat, but it doesn't seem smart to me. Why give up a teammate this early for 'cred' in a big game where it will all be forgotten immediately anyway? | ||
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On August 20 2015 17:50 Rels wrote: now that I explained why your tubesock's townread is stupid, do you reconsider ? I hadn't thought about things like that before. You're right that town reads are easy to give out as mafia. In a way, it would make sense that nervous mafia would town read people who seem to be posting in a town manner (which would explain why our reads align), and his push on me without scum reading anyone else (or really even considering anyone else, for that matter) isn't exactly massively towny. So yeah, I guess. Since you're online, I might as well ask - you've been pretty quiet up until now. What do you think about the push on me more generally (that you now seem to have joined)? | ||
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On August 20 2015 17:55 Rels wrote: this is a stupid question, are you shitting the thread intentionally ? there are lots of avantages to mafias attacking each other: they have something to talk about (only real discussion tubesock had was with you), if one flips the other gains towncred, and both tube and you do not really have the power to get the other killed, so it could be all fake activity Yeah I agree that bussing is a thing that can work or be helpful in certain situations, but bussing before anything else has really happened? I've never seen that before. And I'm sorry if you thought it was a stupid question. I'm obviously biased as to whether or not it is stupid, but it was genuine. | ||
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I dunno. I've hardly covered myself in glory so far, apparently. But I do want to know whether you just play this way to preserve your 'meta' for when you roll scum, or if you just genuinely cba with the game? Or maybe you just prefer to lurk because you think you can avoid being lynched and solved the game later? I dunno. But until you start actually helping, as I define it, I'm going to keep calling you out, because that's how I think town win. If you don't agree, then say! | ||
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I do like that TS read Geript's complaints about the general play of lots of players in this game as towny. I had the same reaction, although I don't think it's because scum wouldn't care that they wouldn't post like geript, I think it's because the behaviour that geript is lamenting (town inactivity / mehness) is hurting town. Then again, it sort of contradicts with TS's overall play, which I think has been lacklustre. | ||
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His filter is currently less than a page long, and consists almost entirely of one-line posts that appear to be attempts to roleplay someone. No idea who though. It could be a comically poor rsoult (just for use of the kiss at the end?), I guess, but whatever. If it was just weak roleplay then I would have to stop, as I've already said that I'm staying null on people who give nothing away via roleplay (I'm mostly thinking of Damdred, and possibly KSC, although I think this is just how he actually plays) at least for a little while longer. But it isn't. He has roleplaying posts: "Hello dearies, I am here to solve the game x" (#401) "I am your only hope, sweetie. I will vote whoever I damn please when I want to because you are all bad." (#404) "A good strategy, except we won't mislynch because I am the best player of all time. Not to worry QT." (#499) But, crucially, he also has some posts that at least purport to be more serious comment on the game. However, they all end up nowhere. He prods HTS for trying to get people onto the Ruxx wagon (#495), says he doesn't know what to make of my big WoT (#497), says that all JJ has done is to "post asinine Wots" (#498) - which, by the way, I don't agree with because at that point JJ had already started making more substantive posts (see, for example, #482), and asks what Lord Tolkien had said about him (#571). The sum of his posts has been to try and soft scum myself, HTS and JJ, but without committing to an actual read, or even really giving serious thoughts on any of us at all. The sum of all of this is that VA appears to be trying to do as little as possible, whilst also trying to cover that with some half-assed roleplay (ie "of course I've been useless, I'm emulating X who is useless"). But that doesn't work when you slip and actually make posts that look much more like they're coming straight from VA, unfiltered by roleplay. The only thing that gives me pause is his last post, which says "I have no thoughts on this game right now bye." (#650). I wouldn't have expected mafia to make such a scummy post to sit in amongst such a small filter. But I think the answer is that it's more weak roleplay attempt. | ||
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Anyway, since then I've had a long interaction with Rels, and posted thoughts on The Shining and VA. This was after you asked me to give my thoughts other than defending myself. So please read those and then come back with an updated read. | ||
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On August 20 2015 21:10 Tictock wrote: I find it sad that the first game I play with Chez he's not Chez.... Meh. Having Onegu in Holy Guardians AND Himalayas is more than enough "Chezinu" for me. | ||
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On August 20 2015 21:25 KelsierSC wrote: Lol them ruxxar votes So dumb Why don't you enlighten us as to who we should vote for then. | ||
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@JJ Tube did talk with/at me a little bit, but I don't think he really put together a 'case' (at least not in the way that, say, TT did). But I think it's fairly clear what he thinks of me... | ||
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On August 21 2015 01:50 yamato77 wrote: I have a read. I think Geript is mafia. Alright, you're going to have to explain this one to me, because Geript has been one of the towniest players in the game to me. | ||
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On August 21 2015 01:45 geript wrote: I don't get it. People want to leave Yamato, CheZinU and Kelsier in the game. Why? Basically I think the answer is that people on this site are generally too averse to policy lynches. People like Kelsier and Onegu screw around as much as they can as EITHER alignment because they don't fear being lynched for being useless, and it means they can preserve their 'meta' for when they roll scum. The trouble is that in the process they don't help town at all when they roll town. Look at Onegu - he keeps getting MLed at Lylo AS TOWN because scum can reasonably point out that he was useless all game. The trouble is that in any given game, lynching them is no better than a coin flip. So it's not necessarily pro town in that game. But if town as a whole, across the site, start lynching them occasionally, then they'll be forced to actually help as town. I don't feel like I've been at the site long enough to start that sort of movement and get it anywhere. | ||
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On August 21 2015 02:17 yamato77 wrote: I like 50/50 odds lynching a player. General town/scum ratio is 3/1. A coinflip is not bad, really. Nobody likes a pedant. | ||
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It's stupid and I've never seen it work. | ||
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On August 21 2015 02:35 Half the Sky wrote: That is stupid if that's what it is. I personally can't tell whether people are sarcastic on forums in general without the use of emoticons or whatever. *shrug* I'm not being sarcastic. | ||
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To me, his filter this game reads more like the scum version of OWS that I have read than the town version of OWS. In the town filter that I flicked through, he had no off-topic posts. Here, I think I saw maybe five or six? He has a few where he is just commenting on who people are. He talks about It's not necessarily scum indicative to drag the conversation 'off topic' of course, but it doesn't look like something that town OWS did before. His questions also read to me as less incisive and less fluid than his posts. His flip-flop-flip on the Tube v Ruxx lynch is particularly jarring - he still hasn't looked into Ruxxar's games, or asked anyone who played with Ruxxar previously for an opinion. If he really thinks that that is the way to tell if Ruxx is scum, he should do it. Has anyone else played with him and get the same sense as I do? I obviously don't know the context of those games, so there could be something I'm missing. | ||
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I just spent 15-20 minutes or so flicking back through OWS' past games. I read the first five pages of filter from his last two town games, and his last mafia game. In both, he definitely favours making lots of small posts. Furthermore, as town, he didn't seem particularly inclined to actually give reads or to make scum cases, rather all of his posts read like an ongoing dialogue with the thread. What struck me is that they all seemed to have a serious point to them, as though he was driving somewhere with them. The contrast to his scum game was subtle, but noticeable. In that, his points were responsive, but they were usually directionless. They read to me as though he was trying to stifle other people's lines of enquiry and also fill up his filter. To me, his filter this game reads more like the scum version of OWS that I have read than the town version of OWS. In the town filter that I flicked through, he had no off-topic posts. Here, I think I saw maybe five or six? He has a few where he is just commenting on who people are. He talks about xbox controllers quite a bit. It's not necessarily scum indicative to drag the conversation 'off topic' of course, but it doesn't look like something that town OWS did before. His questions also read to me as less incisive and less fluid than his posts. His flip-flop-flip on the Tube v Ruxx lynch is particularly jarring - he still hasn't looked into Ruxxar's games, or asked anyone who played with Ruxxar previously for an opinion. If he really thinks that that is the way to tell if Ruxx is scum, he should do it. Has anyone else played with him and get the same sense as I do? I obviously don't know the context of those games, so there could be something I'm missing. | ||
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So my top two town reads (Geript and JJ) are both on Chezinu. I've read Chezinu's filter again, and it's garbage. Most of the posts, as others have pointed out, are basically just "let's find scum". But he really doesn't push towards that at all. I'm not even sure it's possible to read into his "Ritoky come off Fidei" post, since he didn't really give any reason, and he could have thought the RNG was so obviously stupid that he might win town points for it. IDK. If we're policy lynching (and I think it's a good thing for the game, although it's kind of a shot in the dark) then I'd rather go for Kelsier, because he is actively hindering town by being rude to everyone. But I'm keen to try and consolidate with my town reads, and there's really nothing in it between Chez, Yamato and Kelsier anyway. I'm not sure what to make of Tube moving onto this - I'm still wary of him for pushing on me so long, and I did like Rels' case on him a while back a lot. But ... eh. I think I trust geript and JJ more than I distrust Tube. ##Vote Chezinu | ||
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On August 21 2015 05:59 KelsierSC wrote: so confused about who is roleplaying and who isn't =) Are you? | ||
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On August 21 2015 20:08 KelsierSC wrote: We should lynch geript Shoot me if you want, fun game apparently just means normal serious game If everyone played like you have, how would it be a 'game'? Every lynch would be totally random, and mafia would win. | ||
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On August 21 2015 22:58 geript wrote: Because I'm pretty sure he's town. Yamato is maybe town for consolidating on a good lynch. In the least a better lynch. Like you guys can complain about those 4 being off limits, but it'd be exceptionally odd if there were more than 1 mafia on CheZinU. Statistically they're low probability lynches ever worse than RNG and significantly worse than RNG excluding the 5 on chez. I'm serious about Damdred being mafia. If he were 3P he'd be far more interested in staying on Chez. Not because chez is 100% mafia, but because as a 3P (survivor or not) he'd be more interested in me avoiding looking at him seriously. I do think chez has a higher than normal chance to flip scum though. His play reminds me a bunch of his play in Nuclear where he was mafia with Ace and Dandelion +2. Around enough to say stuff but not really do anything specific. Plus, his approach towards being lynched was nothing like in TSM. He says similar sounding things, but when you look at TSM he had a long series of posts which showed he was sort of lost. He's just waiting to be lynched and trying to delay it. That's the difference. Town chez tries to do stuff and a lynch ends up his way because of how he plays. As mafia, he just tries to wait out the lynch and does nothing. Doesn't it depend which way Chez flips (if he does)? I mean, if he's town as well, it doesn't really matter which way we went, surely? | ||
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On August 22 2015 00:37 geript wrote: Yes. Damdred and Chezinu are significantly better shots. Chezinu gives us information whether it was town-town or town-mafia wagons (3p essentially being town-town). Yamato is a lower probability shot than a number of others. This. I haven't seen anything convincing to say that Chezinu's last-minute spurt of activity was alignment indicative, and before that his filter was trash-tier. I've also no confidence whatsoever that he will actually look to contribute to the game. Also, if he is mafia, then we confirm a bunch of town. From a totally selfish and non-game-winning perspective I'd rather you shoot Kelsier, whose only purpose seems to genuinely hinder town and generally be rude to people. But in terms of shooting lurkers, I think Chez is the better choice. | ||
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It essentially boils down to three points: 1. She was the first person to make a substantive argument against the ritoky/Tube/TickTock wagon on me. A couple of other people had made throwaway comments about me, but that was it. And everyone knows (or will know now I'm telling you) that HTS is probably the person in this game I have had the MOST interaction with. Not only do we play DOTA together, but we were town together in Newbie XII and she moderated Himalayas. It would have been VERY easy for her to come up with some sort of weasel argument as to why I was scum in this game. Given her connections with me, I think it would have been very convincing to a lot of people. Yes, she could have been pocketing me, or town reading me for the cred in case the wagon was successful, but I find that less likely than the alternative - that she is town. 2. Having exchanged messages with her and played Dota with her, I'm not sure that she's the kind of person who would claim having serious back pain as a reason for not being around. I also don't see why mafia HTS would mix in the excuses with her genuine attempts at analysis. Why not just be like "oh my back is too sore, I can't play, I'm on Ruxx and I think that's right". That makes more sense to me. 3. At the lynch she was all over the shop. I think she moved her vote perhaps four times? I know she's an advanced mafia player, but that seems like a stretch to me, especially as she ended up on the ruxxar wagon. This reason may well fall apart once we learn the alignments of the other two wagons (other than me). However, the sense of frustration that she was giving (for example, calling out Ruxx for not being around) fits in perfectly with her erratic voting. | ||
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I can only type and write so fast. | ||
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I'm fairly sure ritoky is scum here. I have basically two key reasons: 1. I like playing with town ritoky. He makes me feel bad about how rubbish I am as town. Ritoky this game has been exactly the opposite, tonally. He usually asks good questions, gets good answers and generally really helps town. He is never massively sure of his reads, but he does push and probe at them. And he's well respected enough (I would think?) that he should know he could get his reads pushed, if he wanted to. This time, his style is twofold: (i) CERTAIN that I am mafiabut not really pushing me (ie even though a bunch of people indicated they might switch onto me, at least one of whom (TS) I'm pretty sure is town), he's happy to stick with Rels. (ii) His other reads are totally meh - he's not indifferent in a "this game is hard, I'm not sure" way, but rather a "I don't really give a crap" way. Damdred, who I know claims to be able to soul-read ritoky, said that he thought ritoky was mafia, and it seems to have been on tone. 2. Better players than me, and people I am town reading, have said that they don't buy his role claim. I don't either. A role where you can't control who you vote for? Now, other people have claimed to have similar roles, so I'm not ruling it out entirely, but I am sceptical. But, as other people have mentioned, there is no reason whatsoever for him then to try and push me for "serious" reasons. And when HTS and a bunch of other town players all came in and defended me (some of whom, btw, know me and my meta a lot better than he does) he never re-evaluated, but he never really kept pushing me either. He just keeps repeating that he thinks I'm scummy. I don't think town ritoky plays this way. | ||
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I am sorry for not having been around at all over the last cycle. If I'm honest, the attitude of too many players (not all of whom can be town) in this game has been so rubbish that I've struggled to keep enthusiasm. I've spent the last couple of hours reading back over the thread, I'm here and I have thoughts. I will be around until EOD as well. Town: Geript JJ Breshke FF TheShining TT I still have a town read on geript and JJ. Geript is straightforward - he has been the only person pointing out what I was trying to say re Kelsier, and also what I think some of the other town are thinking at the moment -- the town attitude is cancerous and people needed to seriously buck up their ideas. I don't see a mafia motivation for trying to get town to ... you know ... do its job. I haven't seen a real change in the playstyle - except that his activity has dropped off a tad. I'm not that put off by his lack of reads, as (from my view anyway) as the game has been so quiet. Breshke has been meh so far, however he was town read by HTS, whose reads I trust much more than mine. For some reason my new IE won't let me access his filter, but I looked at it 30 mins ago and his indifference really reminds me of my own - disinterested town who are struggling to find the enthusiasm to solve, not mafia who want to solve. FF is more of a gut-reaction, but he and I seem to be reading the game in a very similar manner. He is extremely disbelieving of the ritoky role claim, as I am. I don't like that his scum list is basically, with the exception of ritoky, basically just a bunch of lurkers, and it's not exactly tough for mafia to scum-read lurkers. Finally, I read ritoky's long case on FF. Given that I think ritoky is mafia, I'm not sure if mafia would feel comfortable making such a long scum post on a friend, especially since nobody is really on FF and there's no apparent reason to bus. On TS, the more I read his filter (filters now working, but only if I find a post of theirs on the thread, rather than using them on the front ... weird), the more I think it's towny. His nuke on Tubesock is totally consistent with his reads D1. He's posting from a "stream of consciousness" perspective which I like. Also HTS was town reading him, and <3 HTS (RIP). Also, I like his reaction to my return. Yes, he voted me, but he's not dismissing me as instant scum, and since I'm back he's engaging with me. On TT, look, we scum read each other every game, mostly. I'm not surprised we both came out swinging - clearly we don't see eye to eye on this game. But HTS had him as town, and I'm starting to think she might have been right. I like his most recent response to my return and also the game. | ||
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On August 24 2015 06:04 ritoky wrote: so you don't believe the guy who got warned for claiming his name is a day cop? and you don't believe his green check on breshke? Will double check thread and revert. | ||
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That was BM right? | ||
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Day cop returns standard cop checks, but can check during the day? | ||
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... Wow. Like, I'm sorry, I've read the thread, and I'm trying to jump about between the thread and reading people's filters. Clearly I have an issue with skim reading, as I didn't really clock that post the first time around. But I don't see how it undermines my town read on him? | ||
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On August 24 2015 06:12 ritoky wrote: it underlines that you haven't read the thread and it tends to make me not take any of what you said very seriously. for example you talk a lot about my case on FF in the FF read section, but pretty close after my case on FF, both him and KSC claimed roles that fuck with their votes and since then i have been town reading them both, while FF believes one of the 3 of us is mafia due to over-saturation. you don't mention the day cop and the green check on breshke and instead give him some convoluted read. so it is clear to me you have not grasped the main parts of what very little has happened today. Yes, I am sceptical of your role claim, but that's also not the reason I am scum reading you. Lots of people have made the case I just did already (your role is unlikely AND it doesn't mandate you to push your RNG read), but I've thought about it and, combined with my tone read on you, I'm pretty sure it makes you mafia. | ||
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Yeah, wtf? | ||
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On August 24 2015 06:53 Damdred wrote: Let's move to,rayn Okay so me, you, Rels, TickTock. Is that enough? Mafia can then shenanigan (pretty sure the vote is split?) | ||
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On August 24 2015 06:56 Rels wrote: don't think it's a good idea the one time yam is in the lead we switch ? meh We're all about and switch if we don't get to 5 or 6, I think. | ||
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On August 24 2015 10:01 ritoky wrote: gotta start rethinking the game, starting from this. I see no world in which the Rayn wagon isn't pure, unless maybe Rels is Mafia as well? The whole thing was organised with about five minutes to go. Even one of them not switching means that Mafia can consolidate onto Rels and take the kill. But even that doesn't really make sense, because Yamato was a much easier target than Rayn, so a Mafia Rela just moves people in that direction. Unless Yamato is also Mafia, but I don't see a world where that is possible. So, yeah. I don't see a world where two of us don't die tonight. If we have any protective roles, I think it should be obvious where to aim them. | ||
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On August 24 2015 10:09 ritoky wrote: at MOST there's 1 mafia in the rayn lynch most likely. but that's tinfoil for a much later date, so for now i am just going to assume they are all town. which makes those look like this: so the list of possible mafia is: obi LT chez rels tubesock yamato ff kels i was assuming ff and kels (and will continue to for now) are both town cuz of the stuff that messes with their vote. so that list becomes: obi LT chez rels tubesock yamato of which i think obi is the most town. Can you please remind me why Geript, BM and Bres are confirmed town? BM's green check on Bres could be fake? And Geript? | ||
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Great minds think alike. | ||
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On August 24 2015 10:19 Breshke wrote: Also geript and HTS both hard townread me so i dont think I let my mafia team kill them A great woman (rsoult) once told me not to get too much into the NK WIFOM. Hts and WoS' reads are just as valuable to you if they're dead. Maybe more so, because then you could ride the cred home. I'm not saying you're Mafia, just that it's nowhere near as strong evidence as the last minute shenanigans we just pulled off onto Mafia. | ||
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On August 24 2015 10:30 ritoky wrote: i mean....do you think BM is not a day cop? cuz i think so even to the extent where i would call him nearly mod confirmed. which makes breshke a near mod confirmed green check....that's pretty fucking convincing. I choose not to take account of what the mods do. We aren't supposed to be influenced by what they do or don't do, and trying to guess whether what they did was because of someone's alignment is a fools errand. | ||
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On August 24 2015 10:33 ritoky wrote: fidei really making me want to go against my better judgment and shoot him -.- please explain to me what the townie motivation is for this post. | ||
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On August 24 2015 10:35 ritoky wrote: That is only part of it. Why would a mafia claim his name when explicitly it is against the rules, especially when under 0 pressure? Why would town? It was a mistake. Reading too much into a name claim, in a game where name claims are not allowed for ALL ALIGNMENTS is dumb. BM has confirmed to everyone that he didn't read the rules for the game before joining. Nothing else. | ||
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On August 24 2015 10:39 ritoky wrote: i am telling you that you need to reorient your mafia list with me out of it because i fulfilled my upgrade by rng voting 2 days in a row no you aren't, you're soft scumming me and that's dumb. If you think I'm town and have bad reads, you tell me I have bad reads. But what you're doing is trying to get people to doubt me, without actually saying you think I'm Mafia. Sure, you didn't have a vote at eod, but you did nothing to try and get the votes off Rels or Yamato. You're a really good town player, and the best move that town has pulled off happened in spite of you, not because of you. Honestly, that says everything for me. But if you think I'm wrong, then you need to show me with some like real analysis. Everything you've put out post lynch is full of holes. | ||
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I didn't post this straight away because I wanted to check my alignment hadn't changed, and it hasn't. So, yeah. Not entirely sure what it means, but I figured it might mean something to someone in town. | ||
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On the off chance that ritoky ISN'T mafia, for whatever reason, then that only makes FF look worse IMO. I'll go back over his filter if I get the chance at lunch. At the moment he's obviously quite far below the obvious town circle (town circle high five!), but I would lynch all the lurkers, Tube, ritoky and OWS before him. | ||
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On August 23 2015 11:08 Fecalfeast wrote: would kill: BM KelsierSC Ritoky Chezinu yamato77 would kill but probably shouldn't: Damdred fidei86 town reads: fuck it Okay mafia > work. This is the list post I was talking about. He does get town points for *saying* he would switch onto rayn (which had a momentum effect upon the lynch), but he then actually said he wanted to vote me. Scum reading me doesn't make him mafia, obviously. His filter is a mix of some meh, some okay. He hasn't really driven town anywhere, but I don't think he's been a massive hindrance either. I think null is the safest place for him, and honestly there are at least four better targets (OWS, Tube, rit, KSC) than him, and that's not taking into account the case on Lord Tolkien, which I haven't really given much thought to yet. | ||
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On August 24 2015 19:14 Rels wrote: No :p you have a null on ff like me You are conf town Ah cool. I was about to be sad about getting scum-read by one of my town-circle homies. | ||
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On August 24 2015 19:16 Bill Murray wrote: i voted for feast so you can't be null on me how do you read me? I'm null on you. My reasoning is that you replaced in and you haven't said much that really grabbed my attention, AND there have been much more pressing things to sort out. I know, I know, that's not an excuse. I'll read your filter this evening or when I get a chance. | ||
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On August 24 2015 23:10 ObiWanShinobi wrote: No vig ever would have shot into Wave/Hts, fyi. Yeah I do not see a town-aligned vig shooting Wave, HTS or geript n1. Not with so many lurker targets. Any of those could have been mafia vig targets (I've never played with a mafia vig, but w/e). Alternatively, perhaps HTS or Wave visited VA (since he was a paranoid gun owner)? I guess this is all a bit pointless anyway, since there are so many wacky roles in the game. | ||
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:-) | ||
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Scum Ritoky Tubesock OWS (In descending order, ie Rit is most scum, OWS I'm least sure on). Null/worth re-reading filters: LT FF Bill Murray Town: Rels, TT, JJ, Shining (<3 town circle) Bresh, geript Why did you bother signing up, but town due to rest of Mafia IDed: Kelsier Why did you bother signing up, but town due to day2 VCA: Yamato Third Party recruiter but not cult leader: Damdred Think that's everyone, but phone posting from memory. This evening I think town should focus on LT and Bill Murray. They're who I'll be looking at. If they are town, I think the rest of the (four man) scum team is pretty much sorted. | ||
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This game. | ||
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What is your role? It has been long enough now, you talked up having an extra power other than being forced to vote for someone, and I really want to know what it is. | ||
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So what, a 1-shot vigilante? | ||
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Why on earth would scum ever shoot you. There are at least five or six people who are harder to mislynch than you right now. | ||
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Yeah I am actually. Are you? | ||
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On August 25 2015 08:46 geript wrote: Yamato77 (3): ObiWanShinobi, There's like no way in hell that this list doesn't have at least 1 mafia on it. So that means: OWS, Rels, JJ, LT, TT, Fido. 20% isn't a bad start. Rels is maybe not mafia for the vote. ? Geript come on buddy. You think that at eod2 I come back and, with a very serious lynch wagon building up on me, start agitating for people to switch onto someone other than confirmed not Mafia Yamato (who lots of people were happy to lynch) or almost certainly not Mafia Rels, and instead move on to my Mafia buddy rayn? I wasn't the first to scum read him, but I was totally instrumental in getting that lynch done. I'm town 100%, unless Rels also flips Mafia (which would mean 3 out of the 4 wagons were mafia), or you think I bussed when there was literally no point in doing it whatsoever, when town was totally disorganised and ambling towards a Yamato lynch. | ||
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On August 25 2015 08:54 ritoky wrote: Yes. Why are you blue hunting so hard if you're town? In case you hadn't noticed, literally everyone in this game has a role of some kind. | ||
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This game. | ||
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@ritoky are you forced to vote for your RNG target, or is it optional? | ||
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Checks FF: WOS green N1, geript green N2, LT no result N2. Bill Muray: Breshke green D2. KSC: geript green N1, LT red N2. Can anyone think of a mechanic that makes FF and KSC's checks on LT N2 compatible? FF can't have been roleblocked, because then he wouldn't get either check result. LT can't be jailed or unvisitable or whatever, because KSC claims to have a result. The whole issue of fake checks doesn't apply, since LT was 'no resulted'. Am I missing something? | ||
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On August 25 2015 18:48 Rels wrote: I hate that we have to ask Chez his check. Plus he didn't answer my question. As I say, no patience to play the interrogation game, you speak or you don't. Hope it's not a broken nuke going for him. Yeah, I'm pretty much on this as well. Whatever his alignment, it's pretty clearly not town. | ||
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Just no. All town must have the primary win condition of, you know, winning v mafia. If you have secondary conditions or whatever, then you're choosing to prioritise yourself over the team, which means you're a shitty team mate. But I think it's 1,000,000% more likely that you're either some sort of random 3P role, or you're mafia. Either way, I care not for your excuses. | ||
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On August 25 2015 18:49 Chezinu wrote: I received a pm stating said person was 3P and was dead. So you checked Yam? The same guy whose only contribution to the game was to beg people not to nuke you? ??? This game. | ||
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On August 25 2015 18:50 Rels wrote: No. One of them is 99% mafia, and we will know which one after the flip. Why do we lynch LT though, with that logic? I'm not sure that either result helps us work out FF's alignment. Sorry if I'm being dense ... :-\ | ||
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On August 25 2015 19:12 Rels wrote: I don't understand why you say it is unresolved. KSC claimed a red LT check. If LT is 3P, KSC is lying. If LT is town, he may be framed or KSC is lying. FF claimed a "no result" check. If LT is town, FF is lying. If LT is mafia, FF is lying. If LT is 3P, FF tells the truth (could still be mafia). So. If LT is: Town: FF is lying for sure. Maybe KSC too. 3P: KSC is lying for sure. Mafia: FF is lying for sure. Ah okay. The bit I was missing was the 3P returning no check. I thought you only got that with roleblocks, etc. Carry on. | ||
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I'm not sure if it makes the game better or worse, but it makes it a million times more annoying. | ||
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On August 25 2015 19:51 Rels wrote: So you thought KSC was lying. But you didn't think anything about Damdred. And you didn't think about checking KSC to check both KSC and geript. Willing to lynch you tomorrow even if LT is 3P. No mafia rolecap flipped yet. This makes no sense. If you think KSC is lying you check KSC every time. I would rather lynch FF than LT, but I'm happy to sheep the town circle, if you all are set on LT. | ||
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On August 25 2015 20:13 Damdred wrote: The easiest explanation tbh for why ff ignores my save but questions the check is that he knows mafia shot aylt geript while they don't know if a check is fake based on being hard to believe. I don't follow. Can you restate in terms my addled brain can undestand? | ||
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Since I have you on, can I ask what your read on ritoky is? | ||
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On August 25 2015 20:48 Rels wrote: Still think LT is the best lynch though. 1 Give us at least one confirmed mafia between KSC and FF. 2 3 "check rayn" posts, who turned out to be a PGO. 3 Sheeping a lynch on me with no reasonning D2. 4 Leaving but not being truly AFK (2 posts after his "bye" post) and not switching to rayn with others. 5 Nuking Chez when he said he would nuke the second town wagon. I'm sold. | ||
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On August 25 2015 20:55 Damdred wrote: Uhhh you put a post inbetween my two posts my newb.. And I was reading eitokys filter. I'm torn on him tbh, and I'm curious why he shot Yamato over chez when chez anti nuked his nuke I think. Vesides that I think hr has town things and scum things going on and meta is crap this game tbh but meaning town. You were "torn" on him in gaiden, and you were mafia and he was town. You were sure about him in Holy Guardians, and you were right and you were both town. You're completely correct that shooting Yamato, in the circumstances was dumb. We'd already more or less cleared all three wagons of being mafia. He also did it without reason. The only thing that makes me question whether it was really mafia aligned was that Yamato was still probably lynchbait? Except, meh, I probably wouldn't have voted for him again, and I doubt the town circle would have either. Also he (Yam) was being so useless that he (rit) couldn't have been accused of hindering town with the shot. As it turns out, he (rit) didn't help mafia or town. Meh. I'd also like to know what people think about purportedly town ritoky surviving this long into a game and having been totally wrong about all of the lynches and mafia, even when newb dumb players such as myself worked out that the Rels/Yamato/Me wagons were all full of crap. Am I the only one who is a fanboy for his town play? Or am I wildly overestimating him? | ||
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Yeah, you're in the town pile too. I recognised that I'd left you off the list, but didn't want to spam-erino. Clearly that ship has now sailed. | ||
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On August 25 2015 22:42 JudgeJudy wrote: IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT I just alignment checked geript and he is town. This is a serious game of Mafia. | ||
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Okay. I was so happy about this game yesterday, but it is now really starting to get draining. Geript, why are you voting for Kelsier. JJ, what the hell are you on about. | ||
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On August 26 2015 01:42 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I might nuke you for being bad instead tbh. Can we all agree that this post betrays an extremely anti-town agenda / way of thinking? Ritoky has said extremely similar things as well. Like, if I'm town, which basically everyone thinks I am (and which I am, lol) you want me to survive. You may find me frustrating, but if you're playing to your win condition, you shouldn't want to kill me. All you're doing here is soft scumming me, and that's literally a classic mafia play. | ||
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On August 26 2015 01:49 Damdred wrote: The game actually isn't that bad. Listen to what you said, you worried my win condition had to do with helping town find and kill mafia... And that was a reason to nuke me. If that was my win on which it isn't why would town obi worry about that if its enhancing his win on? we have a potential rolecop in ff or ksc. ritoky did something out of character by shooting yam over chez imo. so games not in a bad spit This isn't meant in a mean way, but I do wish you could stop speaking in riddles. I'm not saying what you're writing isn't clear, just that I'm struggling to follow it Can you elaborate please? | ||
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On August 26 2015 01:33 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Yeh but maybe he's not actually a survivor. Maybe there's some kind of motivation for him to lynch mafia instead of do nothing. Okay so I reread this post, and I think that Damdred's post is a little clearer now. If Damdred's win condition is to help us find and lynch mafia, then why the hell would town want him dead? He is actually a strong player and his actions at EOD 2 show that. I can't conceive of a 3P who would want to kill all the mafia and then would be able to win against town? The only thing that crosses my mind -- and it is crazy -- is perhaps becoming part of "House Brown" means that if we're the only ones left at the end of the game with damdred, he can kill us and be the last person standing? Is that insane? Because short of that, I'm cool with Damdred achieving his win condition, as long as town reach ours as well. | ||
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On August 26 2015 01:52 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I'm not scumming you at all. I'm calling you stupid and I want to nuke you for making me angry. I learned from Himalayas that there are two types of angry players - those who are genuinely aggrieved and those who are faking it because they are mafia. It is an absolutely classic mafia tell to massively overreact when someone accuses you, and to get more frustrated than seems proportionate. Like, I'm saying I think you're scum. Is it even remotely possible that a true town player says he wants to kill another town player for having a scum read on them? Seriously? | ||
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On August 26 2015 02:02 Damdred wrote: Yeah that post was what I was referring to basically. but yeah post makes no sense to me and is...interesting. If you are familiar with the house of brown its a day of thinking and belonging to the house means you think/share common goals to an extent. The great one is the founder obviously. life and love. Town clearly aren't zero-sum with Damdred, at least not yet. His actions in helping town make me think that he's trying to push the game as late as possible. That, in turn, makes me think that the whole "house of brown" thing relates to people who are alive at the end Frankly, if town lynch all Mafia and then "lose" to some stupid rule that throws the game to Damdred, I'm still taking that as a moral victory. So, yeah. No nukerino Damdred. | ||
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Go ahead, Obi. | ||
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On August 26 2015 15:50 Rels wrote: Lt check on damdred is not believable for me. Fidei confirmed damdred to be 3p so it was useless. Lt claim to be vt is not believable for me. We all have abilities outside of nuke. Seems like a mafia not knowing what to claim. Wasn't convinced by his reads too. I agree with Rels, and I agree with TT. This game is only going to make sense once we know all the roles etc, but for now I see no reason to move off LT. All the posts overnight were basically ritoky et al shit fighting with Chezinu and Damdred. I don't view that as helpful because Chez is obviously lynch bait at this point, on account of him having played so poorly. Him and Onegu are more similar than they'd care to imagine. TT I agree on JJ - he seems to have really fallen off recently :-/ | ||
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On August 26 2015 17:47 Breshke wrote: Like i could anti nuke chez but I kind of want to elave it up to you because I know even if i tried really hard I can't read him for shit and would trust your read more. (also if you are scum then fuck the like 7 greens on you) But if i do anti nuke him the only way its not a horrible play is if everyone agrees to like never lynch him. I think it's the right play. He's not contributing anything and he's giving scum an avenue to push. At best, he's distracting town. And there's always the chance he's Mafia. | ||
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On August 26 2015 17:48 Breshke wrote: I think i fucked up fairly bad, Should have been no nukes today. Should have lynched LT and seen what was up because if LT is mafia i feel like it is unlikely chez is because yeah people bus but do they try kill their teammates idk Can you fire nukes at night? Cause yeh, waiting for the lynch might have been better. I still sort of think it's an okay play though. | ||
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But not all of those four can be mafia. So I don't get it. | ||
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On August 26 2015 19:53 Rels wrote: So ksc did nothing except vote early on a mafia and checked people. Dunno how you can townread him while being suspicious of jj at the same time. But we ll have more info with the flip This. I think I've made my feelings on KSC's approach to the game pretty clear, so I won't re-hash old ground. But ... yeah. If he's town, I'm not sure it's because of anything he has really said or done. | ||
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On August 26 2015 20:26 Rels wrote: I know I shoudn't have expected you to answer my interrogation. You must be starting to feel like the last sane man in the asylum (I already do...) | ||
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On August 26 2015 20:30 Rels wrote: Actually I'm enjoying this game (= loving the mysteries. Really hope the ending will not be a disappointing scooby doo relevation! Like I said before, I only hope it's not that everyone in "House Brown" can be forced to commit suicide or something if it's just us plus Damdred left. That would be super underwhelming. | ||
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On August 26 2015 21:05 Rels wrote: So yamato77. Wow wait a minute. FF checked WOS N1 and didn't get a PM 'cause WOS died. LOL So once again on of Chez and FF is lying. This is sort of why I don't mind the Chez nuke. If Chez returns town, then FF and ritoky are the last two mafia, ezgameezlyfe. (Okay, so Chez could have been lying about stuff and be town, but in that case the proper punishment is for someone to go and punch him in the nads IRL). | ||
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On August 26 2015 21:10 Rels wrote: Are you seeing what I see or is there nothing. Chezinu claimed to have receive a PM for a check on a player that died. FF claimed to NOT receive a PM for a check on a player that died. Yeah, I saw this. It's strange. We've had the bizarrest mix of suicidal mafia and dumb town this game, I can't even... | ||
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But yeah, I can see that it would be better to sort out the whole Chez/FF/LT/KSC cluster**** first. It really sucks that town have had so many green players play so poorly - it has made the whole thing really much more difficult than it should have been. Fortunately, Rels has put us on his back a little bit :-) | ||
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What can I say, I believe in the power of positive thinking. | ||
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JJ or me? JJ is a smurf, I think that is basically confirmed. Not sure who it actually is though. | ||
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I'll take it as a compliment that you think that I could be smurf (and therefore an experienced player). As it is, I swear on my Dota MMR that this is my only Team Liquid account and that the only games of forum mafia I've played are on here. I've played a little bit of text mafia with my friends, but they're all rubbish and mislynch all the time. | ||
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Holy Guardians (town, NKed N3 or N4, mafia victory, Onegu throw) Mafia in the Himalayas (town, NKed maybe N5?, mafia victory, Onegu throw) Newbie Mafia XII (I think) (town, carried my bat, town victory, Onegu couldn't throw because he was the host) | ||
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Either you're Mafia, in which case you being a dick makes me want to lynch you, or you're town in which case you're distracting me from scum hunting. And in any event, there really is no reason for being a dick. So stop. | ||
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On August 27 2015 05:19 Rels wrote: You seem to have missed the point so I will write it again. FF said something you know IS NOT POSSIBLE (getting no PM from dead player check) And ritoky claimed he ROLEBLOCKED YOU If you are town they are CONFIRMED MAFIA (99% for ritoky 'cause he could be naive or roleblocked himself or something else that has 0.01% chance of happening) WHY are you focusing on me when you have two confirmed mafia This. | ||
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Chez will you please answer Rels' question regarding why you're not pushing FF and ritoky? | ||
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On August 27 2015 18:02 Rels wrote: OK the multiple posts stating "I'm the towniest town in the game" + "I'm too pretty to kill" may be rsoultin. The spam may be JAT ? Don't know him, don't know if he would say "I'm the towniest town in the game". OWS you're super strong at guessing roles apparently, could KSC be rsoultin ? Cause I wanna believe that rsoultin suicide role theory. Rels, this has been a fun town-masterclass to watch/sheep. If you're actually town, which I have to believe that you are, then I'm nominating you for the TLM award for best individual town play. | ||
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On August 27 2015 20:06 Rels wrote: OK let's not forget one of FF and KSC has to be not-town too. Both weren't roleblocked and got different results on the same target. Right now I'm more willing to kill KSC than FF, but it's very small. Here is a direction we could take: 1 - nuke Chezinu tonight 2 - if his upgrade really was a check, FF is lying; we kill him 3 - if not, I'm more in favor of a KSC lynch atm, but very slightly. We'll debate tomorrow about this If Chez was telling the truth, that also puts ritoky's RBer claim into question. | ||
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On August 26 2015 06:16 ritoky wrote: That check is just plain made up dude. People. I want to take us back to this interaction, because I think we can make more ground out of it. In short: HTS flips watcher. Ritoky claims RBer, says he RB'd her n1. Geript is in a QT with someone who claims to be HTS, says that she watched KSC visited LT n1. LT is now confirmed mafia. So basically, KSC - did you visit LT n1? | ||
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We're definitely not at the "we need to start re-evaluating everyone" stage, but I think once we know the NKs (if any, here's hoping..) and Chez's flip, we'll know a lot more. | ||
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Meh that was relatively lazy of me. So yeah, KSC says he checked geript n1. Which means that the person in geript's QT - if it exists - definitely isn't HTS. | ||
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Is there really any need for you to continue to be rude and obnoxious? Roleplaying got old about 12 hours into the game. | ||
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On August 27 2015 23:40 ObiWanShinobi wrote: @jj: he had two checks in one night? Where did he claim that? I can't look for myself. Ff is 100% the best nuke in the case of conflicting role claims. There was a whole thing on it a while back, but I can't be bothered to look for it right now. I'm pretty sure JJ is right. | ||
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On August 28 2015 01:38 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Damdred could easily be on the lynch table tomorrow, nuking him seems like a bit of a waste at this juncture. Explain to me why town would lynch Damdred? | ||
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On August 28 2015 09:26 Damdred wrote: Myself and fid have to be terrible players who are playing 100% against our wincon if you believe that scenerio For what it's worth, I specifically asked the mods whether my induction into "House Brown" changed my alignment or my role. I was informed that it had affected neither. I haven't received anything else from Damdred and I haven't been given anything about it from the mods since. Also I am bad at this game, but I don't see how Damdred could be a cult leader. Unless he is recruiting as well as turning people into "House Brown". I've already speculated about this enough in the past - I can't see how Damdred is Mafia, unless there is a Mafia recruiting power that lets them tell targeted town that they're in House Brown? That sounds like a shitty power. | ||
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On August 29 2015 04:28 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Terrible nuke, imo. Uh, understatement of the century? Chez and KSC have played anti-town roles all game. If they are town, we can thank them later for ruining the game (/throwing, if town lose). | ||
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On August 29 2015 07:01 ritoky wrote: i don't understand the question. it was sent to me? wasn't it sent to everyone? When did you receive an explanation of your upgrade? | ||
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On August 29 2015 07:36 Damdred wrote: I doubt wee over get an answer been asking for a hit now The other thing about Rit's claim is that he's been all over the place on whether or not he was able to choose who he voted for d1 and d2. He said several times that the mods chose who he had to vote, but then he also once d1 that he was happy with his vote on me. It also doesn't make much sense that he'd get an upgrade for doing something he was FORCED to do by the rules. So, rit, which is it? Could you chose who to vote for, or could you not? | ||
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On August 29 2015 07:48 ritoky wrote: i already answered this over 50 pages ago, why do you still have such a hard-on for me. it makes me think you're not town simply because at some point town would have at least tried to reconsider at some point. Care to link me to it? Because I went through your filter and I couldn't find it. | ||
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On August 29 2015 08:09 ritoky wrote: i rng voted because it was my upgrade. i knew my upgrade, i rng'd the vote to obtain it. simple as that. any more explanation moves too close to talking about exact role pms and mod kill territory for my liking. It's a simple question and it has a simple answer. Were you compelled to vote one way or another, or were you free to choose. If you're saying it's the latter, that DIRECTLY contradicts statements you've made earlier. | ||
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On August 29 2015 08:14 ritoky wrote: i mean we are gonna lynch chez, he is gonna flip mafia and i am conf town; unless we plan to not lynch him which i feel is stupid in every capacity, discussing my alignment is a waste of time until he flips really. How exactly are you confirmed town? | ||
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On August 29 2015 08:19 ritoky wrote: of course i was free to choose to try to obtain my upgrade or not. any role where the mod literally pms you who you have to vote for should never be implemented and i would immediately ask for a sub upon receiving it. i voted who i wanted yesterday, so this question is still very dumb and i have no idea where you're going. i lied about being forced to vote by a mod to obtain an upgrade in a way that would not get me immediately shot by the mafia. woopdeedoo, people lie. damdred lied about his presents confirming alignment, ksc lied about cop checks. geript lied about talking with hts post death. people lie. WTF. Why would you get shot by the mafia if you admitted that you didn't have to vote for whoever the mods picked? That makes no sense. | ||
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On August 29 2015 08:26 ritoky wrote: this may seem like complete wifom to you, but as town i have been shot in the first 2 nights every single game for the past while. if i were mafia i would assume that the character i got would have a role seeing as this person is a rather large personality on the forums. thus if i were mafia i would have shot me unless there was a reason not to. strong player + likely role = auto-n1 shot. thus i strategically applied a detractor to myself, aka the mod tells me who to vote for, to make myself a less appealing shot. Does anyone else find it weird that ritoky, who usually gets NKed N1 because he is good at town hasn't had a correct read or a correct push yet? Because I find it super weird. | ||
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The reason why I'm claiming now is that, since we know the mafia had a rolecop, I'm thinking they checked me N2 and subsequently role-blocked me N3, since if I correctly watched, it'd be confirmed mafia. The reason why I think mafia checked me is because I think I was too obvious in pinging out ritoky out of nowhere at my EOD2 thread re-entry (especially after I gave a town read on HTS towards the end of the night), and maybe I should have kept quieter about that until later. I don't see any reason to keep town in the dark in those circumstances. That was the reason why I was asking ritoky for his role back during D2 - because I wanted to see if he had any excuse for having visited HTS. And I have to say, I'm not convinced by his RB claim at all - at least I'm not convinced he's the town roleblocker. When he listed HTS as his RB on N1, I think that he had already guessed that I had either tracked him to HTS, or had alternatively watched HTS, and was setting up pre-emptively to counter that. I think it's reasonable for him to assume I wasn't a cop, since we have already had enough cop claims. Assuming that the mafia have one unwatchable power (the godfather), then that means there is a 2/3 chance that on N1 the KP was carried by someone who was watchable (assuming there were 3KP n1). I don't think any of ritoky's roleblocks make much sense from a town perspective, except Chez. He did throw some dirt HTS' way d1, but he was scum reading me SUPER hard. And I don't buy that people wouldn't ask someone who was scum-read d1 (like me) to carry the KP - in fact it makes all kinds of sense, since if I was caught, mafia wouldn't have lost anyone of value. The Damdred RB also doesn't make much sense - Damdred is almost certainly not a cult leader. I don't know what his alignment is or what his role is, but he recruited me and I'm not a cult member. RBing mafia is incredibly strong now - why not go for the anti-mafia roleblock, rather than the very very slight chance that Damdred is actually a cult leader? I also have a ton of meta reasons why I think it's ritoky. I've given them before. Basically - he hasn't pushed any correct lynches (the LT lynch obviously doesn't count, since the town circle were all on that instantly, and it wasn't shifting). He doesn't get credit for his list, since I think the town circle had all already figured exactly the same thing out. He hasn't really driven or led town like I would have expected. He has managed to survive 6 NKs, despite being a known strong town player. AND he lied about the restrictions on his role at the start. I do admit, there is the possibility that town got unlucky and that the godfather did deliver the KP onto HTS. But all that doesn't explain why I was roleblocked last night. If ritoky isn't mafia, I don't see why they would roleblock me over, say, KSC who has claimed cop, since I have been tunnelling ritoky since the start. And given the below - why not kill me earlier? I don't know. The upgrade I got N2 was that my watcher results will get posted after my death. I don't think they can have known that. Possibly they just figured that they could keep roleblocking me and kill the people who are more confirmed town than me first. Maybe I'm due to be killed next. Anyway, I haven't played that well this game, so I think my dying and/or continuing to be roleblocked would be okay for town, since it frees up others to get checks and to keep the game going. TL;DR I am the Watcher, I watched ritoky visit HTS D1 and saw ritoky and nobody else. | ||
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On August 29 2015 11:32 Damdred wrote: I have no clue I have no night actions besides my upgrade on n2 and I guess rb aren't notified? Were you notified fid? Or ability just didn't go off When I watched HTS n1, I was told I saw ritoky. When I watched JJ n2, I was told I saw nobody. When I watched Rels n3, I was told "no result". I saw on mafiascum that "no result" is usually used when one is roleblocked. | ||
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On August 29 2015 11:35 Damdred wrote: Why would Hts visit rayn though he wasn't a likely nk Ah yes. For some reason I keep thinking that HTS was the jailer (since WoS was HTS who was the jailer..). But she was also a watcher. | ||
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1. This was before he had revealed that he actually could choose who to vote for. 2. The wagon on Ryan got started so late, he may have just not had time to respond. | ||
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On August 29 2015 19:51 Rels wrote: Why would the mafia team waste 1 KP 1 prot for almost nothing ? It's enough for me to nuke KSC over rit. We'll lynch ritoky if KSC is town. Can you remind me of the sequence? LT fake nukes Chez, someone anti-nukes Chez? | ||
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*goes back to the filters* | ||
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On August 29 2015 20:39 Chezinu wrote: I haven't done anything blatantly against my win con. It is personality mafia. If the host disagrees with my playstyle based on the character I have received, the host can always warn or modkill me. Okay, then please explain to me how your play has been pro-town. | ||
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On August 29 2015 22:09 Damdred wrote: Fid trust me and your own scum read maybe. People can say that there's a 50/50 rayn carried the kp to wos and everyone will play that up. But that's not how you play its known information vs unknown. We know for a fact that you our information role saw only ritoky visit Hts. And yet rels has ksc above ritoky like wtf is that. Also chez could be mafia by poe but that's it...ita chez...hes always going to read anti town to people who haven't played with him. That's not to say that chez isn't mafia buy its not as open and shut as its made out to be. I admit I haven't played with him before. If you have played with him before, do *you* think he is town? Has he done anything to convince you he's town? | ||
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Also, if Chez flips green then we lynch Rels and Rit and win the game. | ||
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On August 29 2015 22:45 Damdred wrote: Well that makes things easier Confirms me 3p so no more tinfoil I'm mafia Ritoky green for now chez red tommorow can talk about if there was any type of framers. obi nuke ksc probably Has KSC even posted this cycle? Ps I'm on a train for the next two hours with nothing to do but Mafia. So will be re-reading filters etc. Do ask any questions. | ||
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On August 29 2015 22:54 ritoky wrote: a couple things here real quick. 1) how the fuck did no1 ask for the rest of fid's checks? cmon peepz, dats standard practice 2) i dignified reading a mafia case on me that felt absurd. at least it explains some things about how you've been acting. i will tell you your error though. you think town could have gotten "unlucky", i say the mafia 100% sends the untrackable dude to kill when available. 3) it's hard out here for a confirmed townie 4) #townlyfe off to werk. 1. I gave them straight up. Read my post. 2. Mafia had to deliver multiple KP. Unless one Mafia delivers them all? 3. You're hardly confirmed. 4. Start helping then. | ||
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On August 30 2015 00:15 Damdred wrote: Why don't you agree with where i'm going with this fide? Would you say you are willing to go on a green check and say hes 99% mafia? Well I wasn't going to say, since there was a chance that Rels is Mafia and would accidentally stumble. But since you pushed me: I think that Rels' immediate reaction to my claim was to avoid claiming as well. Saying he was happy to go along with ritoky's lynch at first is more or less consistent with that. However, straightaway he started questioning it and driving people back towards Chez. If I'd decided earlie, we could have avoided his claim entirely. | ||
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On August 30 2015 00:28 Chezinu wrote: So you guys want to know my role now? Yes plz. | ||
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On August 30 2015 00:36 geript wrote: Rels 100% isn't a cop. Idk about TT's watcher claim. You mean my claim as watcher? Care to share why Rels can't be a cop? | ||
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This game. | ||
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On August 30 2015 00:53 Chezinu wrote: LOLOLOLOLLOL!!! HEY GUYS DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHO I THINK IS SCUM?!? Yes please. | ||
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"Idk just a feeling" /facepalm | ||
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On August 30 2015 01:09 Damdred wrote: Rels claim does feel a bit fake tbh Why does he fake claim now, and give a red check on Chez? Like, if Chez doesn't flip red, we auto-lynch Rels. With Mafia this far behind, that makes no sense to me. | ||
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Though, if Chez flips town, someone who knows where he lives IRL needs to kick him in the nuts for throwing so hard. | ||
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On August 30 2015 02:29 Rels wrote: OK so I want to discuss the nuke. I think we absolutely should nuke today. We could end the game today; eliminate a suspect if not; and makbky, we have less targets to use abilities on tonight. For nuke target I still think ksc is the best target. I had a post with reasons that I can't look for on phone; I will add to that something I said early in the day; a big reason ff was nuked was the two checks on lt being different. Ksc could have rescinded his claim n3 and save a cop. Disagree. For a role like watcher, the more days there are the better. All an uncertain nuke does is shorten the game. | ||
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On August 30 2015 09:31 ritoky wrote: #confirmedlyfe i will gladly await fidei's apology. Ugh. Assuming anyone is or isn't confirmed until they flip or the game ends is dumb. And why would I apologise for pushing you, when I saw you visit someone who got NK'd day 1 and nobody else, and when I think you've been scummy? Like, you may think I'm wrong (and I may in fact be wrong), but I don't owe you an apology. | ||
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On August 29 2015 05:01 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Me? >_> Also my role is kind of bleh and I never used it, save for once on someone who died. OWS: you said earlier in the game that people with investigative checks shouldn't visit you (soft claiming PGO I guess) but here you see to be suggesting you yourself have an investigative role. Can you clarify? | ||
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On August 30 2015 18:04 geript wrote: meh. shit happens. Technically, I wasn't wrong every day and I was one of the few to try and lynch scum on D1, but eh. Meh, the wagons were between a town and a traitor. And plenty of people weren't on the Ruxx wagon. Not sure how far this goes. Also isn't watcher supposed to visit people likely to get NK'd?? | ||
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On August 30 2015 16:33 Tictock wrote: Ehh. 5 Mafia, 1 Traitor, 2 Neutral 3p, and 13 town sounds a little out of wack, but I suppose 6 mafia-aligned players in a themed game this size with nukes and such is plausible. That's actually a pretty scary thought if KSC doesn't flip red. Especially because one of the 3P was a jester who is surely a pro-mafia... | ||
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On August 30 2015 14:54 ritoky wrote: i mean i nuked chez, i then did a gotcha post when he faked a check, and then got green checked. plus i have lynched 2 mafia and shot a 3p. you can't get much more confirmed than i am right now. i am like quadraconfirmed. tbh you played mostly okay given your info and i understood it after you outted, i was just flipping you shit cuz i am on the right side of things. the only 2 errors i see are that you never seemed to reconsider anything when untrackable flipped and you also thought mafia didn't 100% send said person to make kills which is suboptimal play in 95% of cases by mafia if they don't. regardless, there's a nuke headed toward ksc, probably roleblocking 1 of OWS or geript cuz my poe. also ticktock starting to rise up the list of eyebrow raising since dat falloff so real. but then again i might just default to RBing damdred cuz cult paranoia. Can someone please let me know whether they think each KP is individually delivered or whether one Mafia can deliver all the KP? Because of its the latter then that obviously exonerates rit. But that seems unlikely to me because that would render a bunch of town roles totally pointless until we managed to find the godfather. In fact, given that we would only see other blues, they'd actually be Mafia favoured. | ||
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On August 30 2015 19:12 Tictock wrote: How do you figure Jester is pro-mafia Fidei? Because they are trying to get lynched, but lynching them don't take town any further forward. Basically town wastes a day on a total distraction, while Mafia march towards Lylo. | ||
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On August 30 2015 19:26 Tictock wrote: Like I get that you feel Yam played this way, but trying to say the role itself is mafia aligned is pretty silly. anti-nuke, +Possible Masons & Vest Eh, I suppose the role could be played out any way the person wants. Sounds really similar to the role Damdred has though, so it's funny you say it's clearly mafia aligned. WTF? How else would you play a character who is trying to get lynched?? | ||
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>> Can everyone please stop saying they are confirmed town, when the reasons are "I voted on the same wagons that everyone else voted on". Because there has to be at least one more Mafia, and it's obviously possible it's not KSC. | ||
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I'm still waiting for my check from the mods atm, will post as soon as I get it. I watched TT because I thought there was a decent chance the Mafia would avoid Rels, as he was so obviously town. So yeah ... I probably won't get anything. | ||
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On August 31 2015 07:47 Damdred wrote: Are you sure you visited TT fid? Yup. Or, I tried to at least. Result pending. | ||
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On August 31 2015 08:06 JudgeJudy wrote: Can everyone confirm that they didn't receive a mason with geript? Just want to make sure we don't need to worry about a scenario where ritoky was roleblocked, preventing his roleblock from going through. I got nothing from geript. | ||
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Either: 1. ritoky is town, confirming geript as town also. Continuing to assume the rayn wagon is pure, which I do, that means it is OWS. 2. ritoky is lying, and is therefore Mafia. I'd rather lynch rut first, and I'll do a post tomorrow explaining why. But I'd be happy with OWS. I think both are scummy and I think everyone else has much better town cred. One question I have - is it worth everyone now claiming their roles? There is the possibility that further claims serve to help confirm some of us to each other, possibly? Although since there's a RBer, that might not be the best idea. I guess you guys will have to decide for yourselves. | ||
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On August 31 2015 10:38 ritoky wrote: Important question to everyone but damdred: Do you think there's 1 or 2 alive? 1. If there are 2 it means that there was 5 Mafia, a traitor and a jester, alongside 14 town. Taking into account the jester and traitor lynch, that really doesn't leave town many mislynches. | ||
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Ritoky's response to you only further cements my read because he seems to misrepresent some of your key points (particularly viz the framing). | ||
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I am utterly convinced that ritoky is Mafia. I have thought his play has been scummy literally from the start of the game, and JJ's masterwork case says everything that I think far more eloquently than I ever could. One more thing - his play so far this day has been to cast dirt around as much as possible, without really making a serious case on anyone. I have considered both JJ and TT, and I have rejected the possibility that either could be scum. Geript cannot, logically, be scum (based on the rit RB claim). Damdred is confirmed 3P. I haven't liked OWS' play this game. If ritoky isn't the scum, I think it's almost certainly him. I don't see town ritoky getting this shrill about a possible mislynch. Like, however you slice it, JJ's case was unbelievably well thought through, logical and well written. I've read it three times and there are no illogical statements or untoward assumptions. Also, this is Mafia people. At least one of the people in the game is 100% lying. Ritoky should know this well enough. His outrage sounds totally fake to me. He is the correct lynch and I beg you all to vote for him. | ||
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On August 30 2015 07:59 Tictock wrote: Ok good, I was gunna be so mad if Rels faked that redcheck. 1 mafia left, who's gunna flip it? Honestly if it's not KSC or Obi we are gunna have to do some hard rethinking tomorrow. You all know what I think. Wonder if Chez was in on mafia QT as traitor... meh prob doesn't matter. @TT I've been through your filter and it seems that you were pretty much in the tank for an Obi lynch today. But you've ended up sort of going along with JJ's ritoky push. Yes, you did say just after that that you thought ritoky was scummy, but this jarred me a little bit going through your filter. It doesn't seem like you've made much of a concerted push on Obi today. Can you explain? | ||
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The HTS RB completely makes sense. Given that I was tunnelling him so hard when nobody else really was at all, it's totally plausible that he guessed that I was tracking him/watching HTS, and so needed an excuse to go to HTS. Alternatively, he's just plain risk averse and wanted to cover his tracks in any event. HTS died n1 (well after rit's claim), so that was safe from a mafia pov. However, he has also claimed RBs on three other people: Chez, Damdred and geript. Now Damdred can be explained away - as a confirmed third party, even if he did have a blockable action, a counter-claim from Damdred could easily be explained away. Besides, town were unlikely to ever lynch Damdred to confirm his role (ie whether it was anti-town or pro-town). I need to check geript's filter, but I think his was a claimed day action (day cop check on the person he votes for). So ritoky could have guessed that he would have no night action to block. But Chez? Chez wasn't in the mafia QT, as far as we know, so if they didn't know Chez was a traitor, RBing him without knowing his role was super dangerous. Like, if Chez flips town (and there's nothing to say rit would have known he wouldn't) then we auto lynch rit. I'm going to quickly read through your case again to see if you covered this -- apologies if you did. | ||
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Also also, I don't know that factional KP delivery makes sense given the GF role. If the GF is untrackable and unwatchable then does that not render mine and Waves' roles entirely pointless, more or less, until we manage to kill the GF? Also, we know that the GF's upgrade meant that he could make one of his mafia buddies also untrackable/unwatchable as well. I dunno why there would be any value in there being TWO untrackable/unwatchable mafia in a factional delivery game. Especially given that one of the flipped mafia was a PGO who wouldn't need to visit people. IDK, I really want to hear others' thoughts on my post above re rit's claim of RBing Chez. | ||
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You get a one shot gun you have to fire immediately, and if you shoot wrong town loses. Who do you shoot? | ||
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(<3 these gifs btw) | ||
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On September 02 2015 00:05 Damdred wrote: Here's the problem in having now. Lers say rit flips green, who do people focus in on then? Its going to be a lot of people focusing pushing the lynch between jj ows and tt. JJ is pushing this like he really believes it. His case reads like he believes it. So that's a point for him, he is hung up a bit on mechanical theory that proves rit was framed so that's a bit disconcerting to a point. OWS is acting pretty town here for him I think. I would never want to lynch him, he's not cheerleading the lynch on and being opportunistic to me. I feel like tt is being super opportunistic with his voting. Everyone else looked at the case and went hrm that's not bad but picked up a few questions. Even fid who's totally in the tank, but look at TT remarks totally just sheeps without question... That's a problem to me, when you aren't sure about someone it just looks like mafia jumping on a lynch wagon. I do not agree at all with your point on OWS. He is utterly indifferent to the lynch. I don't see how that's a townie trait? I mean, if he doesn't care who gets lynched, as long as its not him, isn't that a classic mafia tell? | ||
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On September 02 2015 00:17 Damdred wrote: So basically what your saying is that obi is making sure he's tommorows lynch when ritoky flips green and has absolutely no way he can win the game so he has to be scum? He's not scum based on any type of meta etc that is known on obi Nope, that's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that it looks bad for him RIGHT NOW. Lots of people have pointed out that remaining players less rayn train less green checks = Obi. Him surviving right now, as mafia, would be great. He then makes it to lylo and either turns it up, or alternatively keeps lurking and hopes that he gets passed over (because of comments like yours). I'm not saying he IS mafia, I'm saying that it's not good enough for him to be like "don't care lol" when we're so close to the end of the game. | ||
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On September 02 2015 00:48 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I love how you just completely overlook what anyone is saying about me being town. I'm not over looking it - as far as I can see it's all just META META META. And I want more than that. If I've missed something, please do correct me! | ||
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On September 02 2015 00:50 JudgeJudy wrote: Certainly, sir. We have a variety of fine gifs for selection. First off, we have a personalized gif with the proud Union Jack on display: Or maybe you're looking for a more humorous gif? Or perhaps you're looking to make a profound political statement? If you're looking for a cool action gif, then I have just the one for you: And of course, no selection would be complete without the ever popular cat gif: As always, it's a pleasure to be of service. Fine work :-) | ||
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On September 02 2015 01:47 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Considering your whole scumread on me started because of meta that you clearly didn't understand, I'm going to say that's all you're getting since you obviously don't care about anything that doesn't already support the conclusions you made. Riiiiiiiiiiight. That's why, having already written that I 100% agreed with JJ's ritoky read, I started questioning it, then questioned TT and now I'm pushing you? Because I'm so set in my ways? Of course I care about frikking winning this game. Why do you think I've spent so much time playing it? I'm only invested in my thoughts and reads insofar as they are correct. Where they are wrong, I dearly want people to point that out to me, because I want to win. So humour me, please, and point out why my read on you is wrong. | ||
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On September 02 2015 01:56 ObiWanShinobi wrote: It's been repeatedly explained to you you fucking moron. Bug someone else. Wow. Okay. I would explain to you why that's a pretty poor town play, but either (I) you know and you don't care, or (II) you're mafia. Either way, it's clear that there's no further point in talking to you or listening to anything you have to say. | ||
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But my read on TT basically stems back to the fact that at EOD2 I was convinced that all three wagons (me, Rels and Yamato) were town. There actually was a serious wagon on me. TT and Rels were the only two there (at least, it felt like) who were thinking the same thing I was. In honesty, I wasn't even really scum reading Rayn particularly, but I really thought all the wagons were bogus and I was sure Rels was town. If TT isn't there I really and truly don't think the wagon on rayn gets started, let alone succeeds. I don't see why scum TT bothers. | ||
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On September 01 2015 20:30 Fidei86 wrote: @TT I've been through your filter and it seems that you were pretty much in the tank for an Obi lynch today. But you've ended up sort of going along with JJ's ritoky push. Yes, you did say just after that that you thought ritoky was scummy, but this jarred me a little bit going through your filter. It doesn't seem like you've made much of a concerted push on Obi today. Can you explain? @TT would like your response to this please. | ||
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On September 02 2015 05:28 Tictock wrote: I believe that was after I had tried to start a lynch on rayn, then unvoted to Fidei. Honestly I just remember being disappointing nobody else was willing to jump on Rayn over Rels at that point, kus I was pretty sure Rels wasn't mafia. I really don't recall why I hopped on Fidie, just that I was kinda swinging my opinion on him a lot D1 and 2. Humm.... Didn't Fidei rejoin EoD promising some big case on Rels, then swapped it to Rit? That mighta been why I switched. Retrospect that just makes me believe Fidei's watcher claim all the more, he even claimed that whole case switch was to throw people off. I came back, voted Rels (for some reason, I think it was because I was town reading more people on the Rels wagon than on the Yamato wagon, although that sounds dumb now I say it out loud), then wrote a long case on ritoky. This was before I had received my upgrade, so I sort of thought "screw it, I'll get my read out so at least people have that if I get lynched". I was literally about one minute away from claiming, before the momentum moved elsewhere. @TT People were scum reading me because I'd been absent all of the day cycle (which was fair enough). But then I was hyper-frenetic and managed to make up for it all with my contribution to the rayn switch (which I am fairly proud of, if I do say so myself, although I think Rels gets like 80% of the credit). | ||
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On September 02 2015 04:31 ritoky wrote: we lynching tt? cool he is on the list. honestly don't care and haven't read anything since my last post. just gonna try to lynch mafia and block kp in the night since i am confirmed town. Have you started caring at all now, rit? Or still indifferent? | ||
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The only thing that gives me pause is that town got a whole pile of cops, two watchers, a jailer and a roleblocker, as well as all the random other skills y'all got. So, maybe? But ... Eh ... It seems mad unlikely to me. Anyone who is better at game balancing care to weigh in? | ||
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Doesn't town TT use the power 100% as well? If he knows he's town and he *thinks* the other wagon is mafia, it is always the right play to fix the votes. Hell, even if he doesn't think ritoky is mafia, it's still the correct play, mechanically, from a town perspective. | ||
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Damdred has already claimed that town only have one mislynch left, because "reasons" (ie town lose when we get to 1-1-1 left). In those circumstances, tomorrow town are picking from three potential suspects each (ie each town sees three other town, plus Damdred). If we lynch Damdred, we go to lylo, so each town only has two other suspects to choose from. Statistically, those are better odds. Obviously that only makes sense in light of Damdred effectively claiming that, if we don't lynch him, tomorrow is lylo anyway. If we did have a shot at two lynches, I would never suggest this. | ||
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On September 02 2015 07:17 Damdred wrote: So if we have two mafia 3 v 2 v 1 Nk Game is over just because One mafia 4 v 1 v 1 Nk 3 v 1 v 1 Ml Game over because reasons This is the quote I'm talking about above, btw. | ||
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I just think that the truth of that statement is entirely contingent on whether or not TT is mafia. If he's town, his move was pro-town. If he's mafia, his move was pro-mafia. I guess the real question is whether or not he should have used it earlier (maybe D2 on the rayn lynch)? It wasn't necessary then, I guess. | ||
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On September 02 2015 23:08 ObiWanShinobi wrote: What's the point of lynching a confirmed 3p? Seems like a waste of a lynch. No, it's not. Damdred claimed after the ritoky ML that town would lose if it got to LYLO with him in it. After tonight we'll be at 3 town, 1 3P and 1 mafia. So effectively, tomorrow is LYLO for us. Each townie has to try and figure out which of the other 3 townies is mafia. Damdred has to choose between 4 townies. The odds of a ML are high. If we lynch Damdred, we go to true LYLO with 2 town 1 mafia. It should be a lot easier for town to figure it out. It also eradicates the possibility that Damdred might have a win con that is zero sum with town. This only makes sense now that Damdred has claimed the game ends at LYLO with him in it, and if there is only one mafia. But Damdred has already said that if there's two mafia, town lose after tonight ANYWAY, so we can rule that out. That's my reasoning, anyway. | ||
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On September 03 2015 01:01 JudgeJudy wrote: At the same time, we would also lose the game if mafia has been withholding a nuke or something. Rather than 2 town and 1 mafia, it could be 1 town and 1 mafia and game over. I think we need to try to take out the mafia tomorrow instead. The only reason to lynch damdred would be if he is some type of non-survivor third party role like a serial killer, arsonist, or serial poisoner. If he is indeed one of those roles, I think that means the mafia likely only has 4 players and were wiped out with the chezinu kill. I haven't put a lot of thought into this scenario to see if it adds up, but my gut tells me not to lynch damdred. I hadn't considered the possibility of further nukes. That does change things around a fair bit. But I do want to know why Damdred has changed his tune on whether or not we should go to LYLO. "Reasons" is not enough of an answer. | ||
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On September 03 2015 02:12 Damdred wrote: Like I really don't want to be a bitch here especially when I've been town siding but wasteing a day of lynch with killing me over someone you think is really likely to be mafia is stupid. And you are scared of basically lylo with me in it....but not scared of lylo of me not being in it. That's so stupid Damdred, I'm not being a 'bitch'. I was floating the idea that killing you meant that we went to lylo with fewer options than we will have tomorrow. It would also mean that we could avoid turning the game into a coin flip of which way you'd vote. Honestly, town trusting you would be pretty naive at this point. Don't pretend to be butthurt, because it isn't convincing. You'd be saying the exact same thing in our position. The only argument to not lynch you is that Mafia might have nukes or an vig shot or something (or another vote rig ...). I think that's probably enough. But, again, don't pretend like you have town's best interests at heart because we know you're 3P, not town. Whining doesn't become you. | ||
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Anyway, whatever, let's move past it. But if/when Damdred screws town at lylo, no crying to me please. | ||
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On September 03 2015 03:07 Damdred wrote: Yeah your just bad. I'm not an option to lynch at lylo. If I was an SK you would see more than one death a night. If I was a poisoner you would see more than 1 person die a night If I was a cult leader the game would be over at this point and you yourself know if this is true or not fid. Iys just the truth you lose the game as town lynching me its just the way it is. ? If we lynch you tomorrow then we go to 2-1 Lylo. How is that that much worse than mislynching and going to 1-1-1 lylo, where you could basically throw the game whichever way you liked? | ||
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It's obviously not Damdred. If it is, a bunch of stuff has gone very wrong (the Rels check and my PM about 'House Brown', apart from anything else). I do want to hear from Damdred what that is all about though. It can't be geript, save some sort of super weird interaction I'm not aware of, since the night that ritoky RBed him (n4) I was also roleblocked, and there was a KP delivery. I don't think it's you. I've thought you were towny from the start, and I still think that. I don't think scum puts 4 hours work into a case on ritoky, and if they do, I think they make more mistakes than you did in yours. Yes it makes sense for scum to want to get ritoky lynched, but I was completely onboard with the lynch, and I'm town. I think ritoky did play very scummy all game. The thing that we should have paid more attention to, btw, was the whole Chez RB. That was the one thing that really didn't make sense from a rit mafia perspective, and I think it should have been enough for us to move our votes. Meh. It's done now. I really don't want to live in a world where it's TT, because that would mean mafia had all of the powers we're aware of, plus a roleblocking vote-rigger. Vote rigger is SUCH an OP ability for mafia, as it basically guarantees them a mislynch. But I do admit it could be TT. However, I think it's most likely to be OWS. I've said it the whole time, and when I've mentioned it he has just insulted me. The only thing that gives me pause is that he has been SO scummy (ie actively not caring about lynches like yesterdays) that I dunno whether a scum player tries this and gets away with it. So if I had to vig shot for the game right now, I shoot OWS. If it's TT, I blame Onegu. If it's geript, I blame Onegu. If it's you, I congratulate you. | ||
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On September 03 2015 03:41 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Fidei continues to have absolutely no case and pushes it anyway. Spectacular. Can we have a rule for tomorrow, please, that if someone accuses you of being mafia, you have to not take it personally? Someone here is lying. Like, that's the entire game. We don't know who it is, so we have to assume it could be anybody, including you OWS. I already said that I'm going to be re-reading and that I'm not convinced it's you. But I do think it's you, and I'm not going to not answer the question JJ asked. You obviously aren't going to like it, but please stop thinking it's a personal attack on you when it isn't. | ||
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On September 05 2015 08:20 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Nah I'm just gonna blacklist you. You've developed this nasty tendency to never read anything I write so stay away from me. We're done. Lol. Lol. Hahahahahah. If you think this is on TT then you are deranged. | ||
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On September 05 2015 08:33 Tictock wrote: Thanks buddy. Sorry I voted you D1 and was kinda on your case D2. Tbh I only left my vote on you D1 kus I knew you weren't getting lynched and I was pretty sure the ruxx lynch was bad. Maybe one of these days we'll both learn how to read each other ^.^ Maybe if you stop being such a teacher's pet and co-hosting all this games #burial | ||
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Sigh. | ||
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