EPTNewbie Student Mafia XIII
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geript
10024 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
On July 23 2015 18:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Back off Fidei already said he will coach me!!  Yah but who else can read thought process other than me? | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
I forget why I thought Barakos was a good lynch D1, but there was a really good reason that a bunch of people (even a vet or two) missed that someone had posted. Regardless, the result of his lynch (because it was so lopsided) should basically be ignored. It's both possible and probable that he was bussed so for the most part, no one should think that anyone on that wagon is town for being on or starting the wagon. The NK was a good choice, but in games where roleblocking a Veteran prevents their bulletproof vest from going off, then mafia should heavily consider "burying" the RB on the NK. The setup is random equally split between Medic and Veteran, but it's usually correct to err on the side of Veteran because Medics do crazy shit sometimes; or Medics guess wrong. Another good reason to "bury" the RB is because this setup states that RB's are notified and should the NK flip anything but Veteran, then you can have a plan for mafia to claim the RB for town cred later. The D2 lynch was really bad. I didn't keep notes, but I remember thinking that TickTock was almost assuredly town. That said, how both mafia treated this lynch was really terrible. It's fine to townread someone who's about to get lynched. But neither had a good reason for it and and both looked really terrible for it AND for not really organizing a counter wagon. The 5 off the wagon looked significantly more suspect than the 7 on the wagon. Somewhere around here, Ruxxar got into a big fight with n00bKing and MoosyDoosy stepped in to townshield his read. There's nothing wrong with any of this. However, how n00bKing approached the situation was not how a towny would whatsoever. He didn't want to really explain things and the explanations he gave were really piss poor. In addition, he was quite happy to let Moosy townshield the hell out of him while n00bKing proceeded to do practically nothing except continue to stir the pot between Mossy and Ruxxar. 99% of the time, Moosy is just a townie with a really bad read that he firmly believes in and n00bKing is mafia. Also fwiw, I think there were some pretty decent points made in cases against n00bKing this day (I can't remember whose were the best but I think disinformation, ruxxar and Rels all had some good points). D3 had a bunch of random things happen; not all of which I remember. But n00bking made a major mistake by not being on the nocturnemage wagon or not securing the sulfurous lynch. The 4-3-2 division where scum is lynched, generally means that mafia isn't on the wagon. So it basically stated that mafia was between Rels, disinformation, n00bKing and Ruxxar. Disinformation and Rels had both been really towny throughout the game. When you go back and look at the votes, Ruxxar's been wrong all game. Both n00bKing and NocturneMage were late on the D1 bus and then acted oddly around the D2 lynch. So the last mafia is probably n00bKing. Regarding N3. So mafia chose to roleblock himself and apparently forgot that the rules stated that KP was hand delivered. If I were the host, I would've let the KP go through because there isn't any potential setup with a town RB/JK/tracker so KP is essentially factional. Even still, mafia should've roleblocked the cop and shot him; he'll be dead and you can claim whatever the fuck you want (although claiming the RB there is pretty dumb because it will convince no one). I don't think it would've changed the outcome of the game because I find it hard considering thread sentiment and such that n00bKing wouldn't have been lynched; but he might have been able to avoid 1 day's worth of lynching. Either way, I'll be hanging out in the TLmafia teamspeak channel for a while if anyone want to talk about the game some more. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
Honestly, don't waste time trying to meta for at least a year. It takes a long while before you understand how meta actually even works. You see, meta is a trap. You think it's a beautiful Asian chick in those amazing school girl outfits with the typical anime hair. Then you realize it's not a chick at all and you done fucked up. Trust me, I use meta all the time and I've become exceptionally more careful how I utilize it. You won't know or even realize what to look for until you really see people play for a while (or spend time fucking up and learn it that way). | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On August 04 2015 08:19 Damdred wrote: It honestly doesn't matter what I felt about the situation of lying or hiding information in pretty meh about the subject. I just don't think it makes anyone mafia being caught in a lie, townies want to inherently look good or they lose track and contradict themselves don't want to make themselves look bad etc. All these things happen much more often than town then they do scum. And even though noob was scum I don't think this argument made him scum. Like even your staunchest supporters in a nk lynch were willing to leave when he answered simple questions. This means the argument is flawed and other things are needed to get people to stick. The way he acted d2 is excellent et. And I would of lynched him with you for that but not for hiding information. How I remember him acting around D2/N2/D3 I didn't think was fantastic or terrible. As it went on though, I thought how he approached the situation became scummier and scummier. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On August 04 2015 08:21 ruXxar wrote: It's not whether or not they lie, but that they keep lying and hiding information when asked to clarift and refuse to answer a question that cleary is bullshit. He kept saying how he had a "damaging reason" to not reveal why he thought the way he did about rels being cop. It was so convoluted that it didn't make sense at all. When asked to come forth with this information he simply refused. If he was town he had absolutely no reason to hide that information when asked for it. The thing you need to understand is that bullshit questions do nothing. It doesn't matter if you're right. Like I can't sell you a beer based on the fact that they only buy hops at the end of summer from Nevada farms which use chick shit as a natural fertilizer. Bad arguments even if correct, don't sell your read. Mafia is a two part game. First reading the game/situation correctly and second selling your view of the game/situation so that other people buy it. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On August 04 2015 08:27 ruXxar wrote: I wasn't really interested interested in selling anything as much as I was in just people observing the way n00bking was responding to the pressure put on him. It was like dead obvious from my point of view that he was mafia, because his play made no sense at all from a meta standpoint of n00bking(and I have very high regard for town n00bking). 1. Don't use meta yet. 2. It's fine to want people to observe how he reacts. But you'll get more bang for your buck if you get both their observations of his reaction AND get to understand/absorb your reasons for scumreading him. Selling a read isn't easy, trust me I know. Quite often I have very good reads that I struggle to explain (when I'm not in the game); idk why it is but being an observer usually makes it easier to explain my reads. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
On August 04 2015 08:51 ruXxar wrote: #truth. I pretty much skimmed all the big posts and jus reds all the small ones. I'm going to practice on just being concise. Small direct posts seem to be key. The only reason to post big posts is so people will town read you for effort, not really the content. It's honestly never about post size. It's about make a post easily readable. Sometimes when I only want to make a few posts per day, I'll have these huge posts at the end of which I'll summarize the important reads and give a short "here's where I'm at" list. That way, people can look through and refer to your thought process as it's relevant. There's no one "right" way of posting. Lots of players have lots of different styles from extra spammy to rather terse. It's about finding the comfort zone for you where you be the most effective. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On August 04 2015 09:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Tell me more about this, because this is not how you teach new ppl. I would lynch that kinda behavior 10/10. What did i do worng? Well I'd have to read TickTock's filter to remember why I thought it was bad. And because no filters  it's not going to happen. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On August 04 2015 09:33 MoosyDoosy wrote: I say whatever I want as town because I am town and it's your fault for not seeing that I'm hunting for scum. In my very first newbie game, I was practically in a scum mindset even though I was town because I wanted to look town so bad. In this game and my second one I said whatever I wanted and let my actions speak for themselves. Like sure my behavior looks bad but if you look at the content of my posts you can tell that I'm town. Same concept with TicTock. He raised decent points against me which made me hard townread him. I regret that I refused to re-read n00bKing at a certain point and I've realized the scum mindset of letting others townshield. But part of that was because Rels + ruXxar absolutely refused to budge and acted like my opinions didn't matter. If you look at Page 92 and 93, I CLEARLY refute ruXxar's points but he refuses to listen. Like, what is the point of posting if you aren't going to listen. In my second Mafia game, everyone listened to each other and although the talk was slow, it was fruitful because everyone was considering and re-considering. Here, ruXxar/Rels got too tunneled and disformation/Damdred weren't around anywhere to stop them. Here's the thing that's hard to remember in the moment. Even when you say whatever you want as town, it doesn't make what he's doing wrong. He had a bad read on you. But how you approached that read, made it exceptionally hard for him to get out of his biased read. Being tunneled and biased can be quite hard to get away from; and it takes both players working together to end that situation generally. It's honestly both your faults imo, but I had no stake in the issue so that's easy for me to see. To be fair, ruXxar/Rels got tunneled on mafia for a mix of good and bad reasons. You got tunneled on a bad read which drug the whole issue out in a really negative way. Like if you had evaluated some of their reasons, you could've gotten out of your bad read. If n00bKing was town, if you had approached them differently then you potentially could have prevented a mislynch by being able to explain your read in a way they could understand and relate to. Trust me, me and Rayn are two of the more cockshore, shoot from the hip, likely-to-shoot-off-for-no-good-reason type of guys around at this point. But if you want to improve, then you need to understand that how you approach the game and other players (even when you're town) makes a major difference on how effective you are. I can't speak for Rayn, but I know that Artanis has said this about me and it's something that I've noted about myself. I play much better when I don't emotionally invest heavily into a game. When I'm at my best, I give very few fucks about it. When I get that invested, it's easy to slip into an awful tunnel that I can and should find my way out of. Part of that is listening to other players, both the ones you're arguing with at the time and other players observing you. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On August 04 2015 09:55 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yeah. And I've decided to play my next game from a scum mindset of making myself look as townie as possible. FWIW, I've found that taking a good 8-12 hour break from the game before doing a full reread helps clear my head so I can find my own biases and get out of bad tunnels. It seems to work for a bunch of players I've known. Over time, it usually takes less time to realize when you're getting into a bad tunnel. | ||
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