EPTMay have to drop depending on when this starts, but may as well cross fingers...
TL Mafia LXXI: Gaiden
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Half the Sky
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May have to drop depending on when this starts, but may as well cross fingers... | ||
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If it starts after that, I will be fine. I'd love to play this one, or post myself as a replacement if it starts before that weekend xD | ||
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/replace  Damn I'm sorry but I really can't play until the 6th. | ||
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On June 28 2015 17:27 Kickstart wrote: O he did say he was gonna be drunk entire 4th of july weekend didnt he. BH START BEFORE THAT THANKS, WE ONLY NEED 1 MORE!!!! Yeah that he did. Unfortunately I'm going to have 4 straight days I can't play. Two I could have survived but not four. | ||
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<3 GlowingBear. | ||
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On June 30 2015 04:54 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: /in dont mind being a replacement if Half The Sky wants to play btw You're the last, I can't do jack all before next week. GL HF. | ||
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EDIT: I could survive a 3 July start, though I'd admittedly be vulnerable to a policy lynch D1, but if that's what it takes... | ||
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On July 01 2015 08:37 Blazinghand wrote: Would you like to be a replacement? I already am, will stay on as such. | ||
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On July 02 2015 05:35 plotspot wrote: Can I still out this game? Apparently yamato's game has problems finding one other person and I kinda ignored that thread because I didn't know what was going on there for the longest time. I have no doubts this game here will start soon with another player. Just need some other smurf or so to /confirm instead of me.^^ If plotspot /outs this game, I'll bite the bullet and /in for sure this game. I will have to post an AFK disclaimer for D1 as I will be on holiday but I still want to play mafia either way xD. | ||
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/in | ||
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/confirm | ||
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so..... /in just in case | ||
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Fun times  | ||
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Also I'm a miller this game, take that as you will. | ||
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I may need to re-read several filters again, I know I will need to read LS, Ras, WoS and Clarity. Ras I got a "filler" impression from most of her posts, particularly at the beginning, but especially having been wrong on her as both alignments, I will re-read her filter to make sure I didn't misunderstand something. I know from NSM7 she definitely has filler reactions (or "lols") or what have you when people start to push her so that is definitely a red flag. Someone - I forget whom - brought up her being flustered and they are spot on with that. Breshke is probably town - between what I knew of him before and his more recent games he does get more aggressive (not bm aggressive but because he has perfect information if a townie is playing poor) as scum. I'm not smelling an agenda from him. Trfel's first post was NAI. He does that in a lot of his games, can do that as either alignment. I can see his subsequent posting as either alignment, on one hand he's deflecting questions, on the other, he doesn't care and will post when he's fully through. I'm going to wait until his analysis to judge him particularly since that's how he won NSM11. ritoky, I feel the same way as 1-2 people who have said before, he has prided himself on D1 reads and the in and out passing is quite inconsistent with what he normally provides. The "1 of 3" comment also puzzles me because LS can be judged independently of milo, or what milo said about him (though I have a scumread on milo for other reasons) and ruxxar has said the same amount if not more than LS and so I don't know where this association is coming from unless it's based on the posting area where milo/oats were commenting on LS, etc. I'm giving him a slight scumread for now. HF, I am bad reading HF D1. and I cannot tell whether his read on Trfel is bad (unfamiliarity) or mafia (taking advantage of the fact that Trfel is not posting reads quite yet, at least I know why). I will need to re-read this filter again. Milo I have a a scumread. Milo if you are here, I want to see explanations for your INITIAL scumreads - when you say you agree with Oats, that's fine and dandy but based on your posts prior to that you could be a scummer taking advantage of Oats isn't big on long wordy posts and cases, and I knew what he meant by his initial reads on people. I'm getting a town vibe from him particularly from the last 5 pages of the thread (up to page 53). I also have townreads on Damdred (the thought processes are well out) and KSC (same). Also willing to believe the wanderer claim out of BM. | ||
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Milo I want to see explanations for your initial reads: On July 06 2015 11:07 milo109 wrote: I'm mildly certain Kelsier is scum. On July 06 2015 11:20 milo109 wrote: Hmmm. I feel like I should post more but I don't have much more. Leaning town on Holyflare, and I want to call WaveofShadow also town. But I can't. On July 06 2015 11:24 milo109 wrote: It's harder to read Damdred when you aren't mafia. I'm gonna call him mafia here though. My concern on your filter in general is this is pretty much how you played in Holy Guardians when you were mafia. I don't think you had explanations for pretty much any of your reads and several people have opposing opinions or have substantiated them. | ||
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On July 07 2015 01:03 Harkon wrote: I was about to point that out too. HTS says the jury is still out on Trfel but this statement seems like he has a firm townread in him. I'm actually confused by what you two are saying, particularly Harkon. Let me break it down. If I missed soemthing on these two (I just read the thread in entirety so it's possible I did) or if something is wrong, call me out. HF is scumreading Trfel for posting little of substance. I know others had different reads (most notably Ras) on Trfel. I'm personally reading Trfel as NAI until he posts harder analysis based on Trfel's performance from NSM11. I am trying to interpret HF's read on Trfel but I am struggling with that, but I will also look at how he's reading others more closely. The read on Trfel was what jumped out at me. Marv - only 2 options being bad or mafia? Or are you suggesting that HF at some point TRed him? I missed that if he did. | ||
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Alright, that's why I was confused.... On July 07 2015 00:58 Half the Sky wrote: Trfel's first post was NAI. He does that in a lot of his games, can do that as either alignment. I can see his subsequent posting as either alignment, on one hand he's deflecting questions, on the other, he doesn't care and will post when he's fully through. I'm going to wait until his analysis to judge him particularly since that's how he won NSM11. If it wasn't clear before, no, my read on him is null. | ||
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On July 07 2015 01:10 marvellosity wrote: HF's point on Trfel is that having played a hard/effortful mafiagame, it's very hard to then go hard/effortful at the start of the next game. So what you do as mafia is you just troll and post shit in an attempt to look carefree, because you can't actually be bothered to do any serious work. I thought this was abundantly clear but people keep misrepresenting HF on it. Alright. Now this makes a lot more sense. I'm used to metareading Trfel a certain way since he does play this way in his town games but failed to take that part into account. Which is then a point in HF's favour. | ||
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I know he had long gaps in posting in both NSM7 (or was it 9? one of them) and IIRC he was pretty underwhelming as town in Assassination, the latter being a large game, Taking HF's argument, the longer he goes without posting anything of substance, the worse he looks. On to others in the meantime. | ||
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On July 07 2015 01:19 Oatsmaster wrote: so why didnt you say this in your read on trfel? Like you say that HF's read on trfel is bad because you think trfel is town. But in your read on trfel, hes null. TMI scumslip 1.2 Not a scumslip. The thing with Trfel I am trying to take everything into account. If you want to accuse me of selective reasoning, yeh I missed the part about HF's reasoning from last game, but that's what happens when you read the entire thread in one shot, you are bound to not collect everything. Of course I'll make a mistake. The first post/subsequent AFKing part is a trait I've seen in his town games. From my own meta/experience with him, he's town. I am also aware he's recently had scum success though, so I would think he's going to be smart enough to replicate his town game as much as possible. Since his analysis/filter arguments, etc are what apparently won him the game in NSM11 that I feel is the most critical component to work on, hence the null read. Am I making sense now? | ||
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On July 07 2015 01:30 Holyflare wrote: I just don't get it hts, none of what I said is to do with afking in the slightest. That was just a cursory pressure post at the start of the game. Everything is to do with his return which is a more than prominent feature in this thread if you read through it since BH had to make a public announcement about the shit I was wading through. Since i've never seen him do it in any of his town games and nobody has corrected me to say otherwise, I simply have no idea how you and rsoul can say the exact same thing that his meta and tone reads point to him being town. You then go onto say that rsoul is flustered and is mafiay when she has the exact same stance you do on trfel? It's not her stance that makes her scummy. It's her reaction. | ||
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Alright, my experience/meta does not cover the game where Trfel helped carry mafia (NSM11) as I did not actually play in that game. My understanding of that game is that he won the game based on how he filter dove people and spun his arguments. If your problem is with the way he's deflecting and posting what you seem to be scumreading him for, I can tell you he did the same thing in Down Under 2. He made several posts about music composition and whatnot and then actually cased the hosts in lylo. And he was town that game. Please tell me I am making more sense than I have done before? | ||
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On July 07 2015 01:48 marvellosity wrote: that should be a reason for you to want to lynch him more, not less. More content doesn't always mean better (that's not just for Trfel, that's really for anyone) or a townread or stronger townread. Noooowwwwwww.......onwards to LightningStrike. Going to get some food though. | ||
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On July 07 2015 01:54 Holyflare wrote: hey hey we all live in london let's go to the pub apart from marv cz he's a scummy non-londoner I can sheep this. Still wanting to go to piccadilly institute?  | ||
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On July 07 2015 03:05 Holyflare wrote: geript has done nothing and has posted reads that don't make sense and are unexplained, it means nothing it's geript damdred focusing on ls so much is very weird but damdred's other scum reads are good and i'm waiting for his list of town reads ruxxar is so totally different from the last game i have no idea how people can scum read him ls has done nothing scummy yet to be scum read geript has done this as mafia - the read on sandroba in JOAT is what comes to mind when they were both mafia, not to mention he has gotten mislynched before when people don't understand him - there was Carnaval and also NSM11... And I don't know how you can say ruxxar "is so totally different" when in last game he replaced in and he could play the way he did partially because he replaced in. I'm not saying that in of itself makes him one alignment or another but I think the basis for your comparison is flawed. Also, Ras did make a good point on him on the LS quote "lynching for bad reasons" and I see the phrasing from ruxxar like "how are you not explaining yourself in a clear and concise manner," etc etc it is just like some of the phrasing he DID use last game as mafia. Granted, maybe I have to read his NSM11 game one more time since I thought he was mafia from the obs qt, he didn't do a great job for himself in that game. But some of hte things he says I do get a feel that he tries to turn things around on people. If he does that as town or did that as town in NSM, then different criteria should be used to evaluate him. | ||
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On July 07 2015 03:03 Vivax wrote: All this shit about Trfel is so distracting. All that's being discussed is Trfel and HF claimed the spotlight for himself. Can we talk about geript? Or Damdred. I actually didn't like the way Damdred tried to bait LS into saying something damning earlier and then turned it into a scumread. It's not bad per se as it's a legit town strategy but my feels tingled with malicious intentions given that I don't get a scummy feeling from LS. What phrase/words struck you as "bait" (or loaded, etc)? I remember reading his questioning and he's been on about LS I think for most of his time in game? | ||
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On July 07 2015 03:18 Trfel wrote: Day 2, earliest. Are you scumreading HF? (or do you have any updates?) | ||
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On July 07 2015 03:17 Holyflare wrote: well it's simply the fact he was on my team and i know how he was posting and the agenda and it looks nothing like that here i don't get the phrasing argument either because it doesn't make any sense I'm comparing that to (usign an example) where he tried to turn arguments against Damdred in double mylo in Himalayas. That's another example that reminded me of. On July 07 2015 03:21 Holyflare wrote: ^ that's basically it, ruxxar is far too carefree and his "i don't want to lynch you for bad reasons" post makes perfect sense and isn't awkward in the slightest I'm reading ruxxar's NSM11 filter atm... And I also don't understand ruxxar's followup but I may as well ask - On July 07 2015 02:58 ruXxar wrote: I don't want LS to claim blue for dumb reasons. So are you (ruxxar) saying this would make LS town/mafia if he does? What do you think of LS now, if anything? | ||
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Since you are back in thread, do you have any scum reads you are confident or semi-confident on? | ||
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On July 07 2015 03:33 Trfel wrote: I don't see much reason to scumread Damdred. Yeh I'd like to see Vivax elaborate on where he thought Damdred was trying to trap LS. | ||
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On July 06 2015 07:42 Damdred wrote: If you dislike playing mafia with anyone play voice mafia with them you 100% love those people later. Ls what do you make of Scott asking rs for her read on you so early? Any experiences with him? On July 06 2015 07:47 Damdred wrote: Oh? I think I've played with town Scott once. But ls any other thoughts about him? On July 06 2015 07:49 Damdred wrote: Oh carp... ls why did you roll scum? Which question(s) are you finding loaded/baitworthy? (He also asked another one about experiences with HF, didn't think that should be an issue.) On July 06 2015 08:32 Damdred wrote: Ok ls, for example you did put a little work in by copy and pasteing his games I will give you that there is a point for you. However I feel like I'm partially repeating myself and I want the thread to go and look at ls at the earliest opportunities look at his scum games. He isn't coming up with his own conclusions he is relying on others to interpret the games before he gives it a go. Clarity, how can you say you really don't want to give out town reads like that when it feels like that's what you did with hf? Rsoultin, your post makes me want to town read you.. On July 06 2015 11:22 Damdred wrote: Yeah see now you just sound fake. for instance Scott has what 8 games played maybe? I haven't counted exactly how many but its a good sample size and all of then are recentish. Now in previous games ls when asked even early on would break out ten tons of meta in the first few pages and come to a conclusion. Whatever game we just played ls did this and I was able to meta him as town in the first few pages and you gave me hell about it until I explained my meta read on him being town which was 100% right. now in that game he metad shockey and went through all his games that were years old to try to get some form of read, he failed to come to a super solid conclussioj but the effort was there with little to go ok and he did the work. Here like I mentioned earlier he had already hinted he was leaning scum on Scott. When confronted with this he 100% shifted all the work to the thread and said here's the games I'll wait to do this till later when that's the opposite of what he normally would do and soon as the thread turned its attention away from ls he dissapeared and fave nothing more. And I'm not sure if you are scum or just bad for acting this way and throwing dirt on me. I'm not seeing anything jump out at me (at least from these quotes) about Damdred being scummy. | ||
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##vote ritoky I'm going to assume he is still in thread... in any case, ritoky, do you have even one scumread you are sure on independent of anyone else? | ||
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On July 07 2015 03:51 Trfel wrote: This is a really bad read. He's playing differently from his town meta. This doesn't mean that he is town, because LightningStrike isn't all that good at imitating his town meta as scum. No one can completely match their town meta as scum... Well I look at that and the question I had here is how he'd know that effort to change his play ISN'T mafia, if a player knows he's getting caught out as mafia (and to an extent LS has) he should be even more inclined to change his play altogether if he rolls scum again. Let's try this differently - this is for ruxxar - what independently of meta (namely are there any quotes/pages/citations from this game) that makes you think he's town. You've played two games total and only one with LS (he didn't play NSM11 I don't think), therefore it is reasonable to assume you cannot reliably meta LS. | ||
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On July 07 2015 04:00 ritoky wrote: I think no1 clicked my filter and read the 2nd post in it before the game even started. I don't mind your read, mostly cuz we don't like eachother and you give that read every game that I don't dodge out on cuz you're playing. People who sheeped it that I recall: damdred, kels, hts, hf kels and hts wrote more about I am mafia than I had typed the entire game. Seems pointless. Do you think this makes either of us (KSC or myself) mafia? Do you find any of the above cited's scumreads on you reasonable? I am assuming you understand why you are being scumread. It's not for shits and giggles. | ||
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On June 27 2015 11:35 ritoky wrote: just a note for anyone who cares, i am not going to post much this game, and do my best not to shitpost....it is hard for me, but don't expect 20 page filters. So you don't have to post much, but providing simple reads with simple explanations doesn't mean we're (or at least I) am scumreading you for having a short filter. A short filter is not why I'm scumreading you. You had the 1 in 3 post which some took issue with. My prior argument where you can still be confident on a scumread doesn't require you have a large filter. | ||
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On July 07 2015 04:04 ruXxar wrote: You're right I don't have a good meta-read on LS. I'm not trying to meta him. This is what made me like him: Oh dear that quote.... Admittedly LS's sentence is very tenuous but if I'm understanding it correctly, I think I know why he's saying that the way he is. But I've had a great deal of exposure to LS, so I know where that comes from. But you have only played twice with him. Why do you think he's town especially for the bolded? Why would/should any townie care whether a typically townie meta/method/approach would land him in trouble? | ||
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BF, I'm assuming you meant Not Themed and not Himalayas, I did not claim miller in that game, but if you are saying I didn't have hard scum reads like I didn't in that game, I did just try to push ritoky now or at least get him to ask questions and I had to AFK just before (or around the time he claimed). I think Scott and LS already said their pieces on miller claim, but yes as I've learnt I do it so that if there is a DT, they don't waste the check on me. They know the check will come back red, so it's down on people to just look at my gameplay if they don't believe what I say. In general, you should also know I play large games as town differently, as there are more things to take in, I am trying to do a more efficient job of prioritising issues/people, etc, but I have found that difficult too. So it might also look to you I'm casting a wider net or however you put it but it is all too easy to ignore someone you should not be doing in a large game. Take that as you will. In any case, I don't like the ritoky's claim at all (timing particularly) and I still have a scumread on him independent of it. I also don't like his response saying that I was the more likely scum btween myself and KSC. Yes KSC has more "town checks", but did he evaluate my game separately? Whose to say if both of us are town and both of us are scumreading him with good reason that both of us aren't fucking up? His explanation for the 1 in 3 makes a little more sense, and now I'd seen where he's going through some follow up would be nice for that. If he still feels I'm mafia though, I'd like for him to explain why when he also has more time. Unvoting him. Speaking of ruxxar, his response to my series of questions, particularly the last, makes me think for now he's probably town. Trfel criticised the read which is why I further questioned him. I did read through nsm11 filter, but I think his answers resolve for now. Milo is another that I flagged before because of his reads, just zero explanation and he did the exact same thing in Holy Guardians and no one questioned him on it. I lined up a few questions for him and he has yet to return to the thread. It is pretty difficult to push people who aren't in thread, aside from pressure voting them, but not sure if others (aside from Scott) are willing to lynch Milo. He'd be a good one to pressure atm. | ||
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On July 07 2015 07:13 boxerfred wrote: this is the first game where in the first 24 hours, noone scumreads me Oo. #justSaying. good night people. I think you're town. | ||
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On July 07 2015 07:22 Clarity_nl wrote: Look I realize your name is bluehunter but why exactly are you hunting blues? 100% I don't know if you are a smurf or a newbie but if you are a newbie player, dont EVER do this. | ||
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On July 07 2015 07:11 geript wrote: IDK why but I think EBH is VE.Feels very much like VE logic. Including the bluehunting? I can't see VE or any veteran being dumb enough to post the blue reads. | ||
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He also very distinctly sheeped faulty votes in that game as scum (if ritoky should be town), that's another red flag of his scumgame for me. | ||
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Independent of meta, he is sheeping marv, could be a faulty vote. The wanderer claim could be an effort to get people to disregard him but I am concerned seeing not really the town play to back that up. BM, you have any thoughts on his claim? Or ritoky at all? Or anyone else for that matter? | ||
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Milo I want to see explanations for your initial reads: On July 06 2015 11:07 milo109 wrote: I'm mildly certain Kelsier is scum. On July 06 2015 11:20 milo109 wrote: Hmmm. I feel like I should post more but I don't have much more. Leaning town on Holyflare, and I want to call WaveofShadow also town. But I can't. On July 06 2015 11:24 milo109 wrote: It's harder to read Damdred when you aren't mafia. I'm gonna call him mafia here though. My concern on your filter in general is this is pretty much how you played in Holy Guardians when you were mafia. I don't think you had explanations for pretty much any of your reads and several people have opposing opinions or have substantiated them. It is a similar situation here that jumped out at me. Have any of these reads changed? Also any new scumreads since returning to the thread? I disagree with Vivax's read on Damdred after reading Damdred's questions (they looked straightforward to me) and Damdred's responses, he qualifies in detail the differences between a town and a scumread on him. | ||
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On July 07 2015 07:58 Holyflare wrote: eh not sure about breshke tbh so tentative atm General tell is that he's more aggressive as scum with perfect information, I think towards the end of d1 will be more telling as he's usually able to flesh out a scumread or two based on his play. (currently TRing him myself) He's asleep being in Australia, so he'll return soon. | ||
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On July 07 2015 07:47 ruXxar wrote: A thought just struck me about HF and clarity. Willing to give clarity some more time. Top 2 scum atm: Trfel Rsoultin ##Vote Trfel ruXxar, that being....? | ||
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On July 07 2015 07:59 geript wrote: Idk what it is about Palmer. But I think too many people have brought him up seriously for him to likely be mafia. It's possible. But I got a hint of interest from him. Those two things make me think he's likely town. How do you differentiate (like a quote or something) his interest in being town versus his interest as either alignment? I think to his last two games, particularly the large normal Guardians and some people weren't having the greatest towny vibes there either and his vote d1 several cited as particularly suspect. | ||
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Well I hate guessing but if I had to guess you are suggesting that HF and Clarity are mafia together? If you are, why? | ||
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On July 07 2015 08:15 Trfel wrote: Palmar generally plays the game more seriously as scum than as town. Geript's explanation would make sense given his teams in Titanic 7 and Guardians were pretty decent, the former got dicked over by an SK ritoky, but then again, werent' the teams stacked on paper in Assassination and that team just choked massively? Bah I don't know. | ||
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On July 07 2015 08:16 Trfel wrote: Can someone please answer my question: Is it normal for scott31337 to miss obvious jokes? I don't know but I think he's joking/jovial in this post, if you are referring to his response to the Ras emoticons - On July 07 2015 07:40 scott31337 wrote: xP over-compensation - extremely suspicious... Given the smiley face, he did the same thing when telling milo not to unvote early game and he wasn't scumreading him for that, at that time. It didn't look like a missed joke to me. | ||
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On July 07 2015 08:26 ruXxar wrote: With the way this game has 1-shot, 2-shot etc, I don't think being un-CC'ed means much at all. I'd have to agree. | ||
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On July 07 2015 08:27 Trfel wrote: LightningStrike, hypothetically, what if someone counterclaimed ritoky? What would you think then? Do you have an opinion on ritoky independent of any claims? | ||
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So I read that. I read Vivax's posting as half joking, and scott misreading thinking Vivax is scumreading half the game for not posting. I don't think it's anything to make a read on personally. Scott isn't pushing Vivax on that anyways and Vivax wasn't his top lynch. | ||
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On July 07 2015 08:37 Damdred wrote: Hes probably been the most talked about person for the last.... 5-10 pages maybe? claim and all, you have no opinions but quizzed ls about his? More specifically, what do you think about 1 ritoky's saying that either KSC or myself is scum with myself being more likely 2 his wagon at the time of claim and particularly the votes that came on him after the claim. 3 his response on having no one to lynch currently | ||
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On July 07 2015 08:46 Holyflare wrote: nothing about LS has even changed inbetween Oh shit, that's a really good find. 5.5h what did change...and then in the subsequent post he's asking to learn more about LS. Okay, you might actually be on to something here. Filter diving LS atm.... | ||
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On July 07 2015 08:51 Half the Sky wrote: Going to check the timestamps to see where it came from for myself, although Trfel really needs to explain himself at this point, what changed his read? Forget it. I read LS's final two pages of filter, I think I can see in the questioning where Trfel is coming from but why do you Trfel think LS is the best lynch above everyone else? | ||
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Those of you that know WoS, are there any general town or scum tells I should be on the lookout for? I have never played with him and reading his filter, nothing is jumping out at me as particularly scummy except for his more or less afk vote on Holyflare. I'm not sure where that vote came from tbh, can't tell if it was tone or whatnot. If you took that out, I'd probably given him a null to slight townlean for some of the posts in his filter, but if he's been around awhile, he probably could replicate that as scum. | ||
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On July 07 2015 09:04 Trfel wrote: This is actually pretty scummy. Note for later. Uhhh Holyflare, you were the one who pointed out that Trfel's stance changed from not wanting to lynch him to wanting to do so... I actually have a reasonable answer to what you said in the bolded...particularly since he is saying he wants to lynch him now... I'm getting that air of selective reasoning HF, and I don't particularly like it. | ||
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On July 07 2015 09:13 Holyflare wrote: I said what I mean. NOTHING about LS has changed in between his not scum reading him and wanting to lynch him. The only thing that's happened is Lightningstrike answering a question in a Lightningstrike way. Nothing has changed. Trfel's read has changed. He refused to explain it. You say he explained it. You've played with Trfel enough I think you should also realise why a town Trfel (if he is town) might not want to answer the question, at least right away. Also he qualified why: On July 07 2015 08:55 Trfel wrote: Sorry, it's not something I'm going to explain. And there is much more to my LightningStrike scumread than his latest few posts. Personally I hope we can see more of these thought processes from him resolve sooner rather than later. But I also checked LS's filter relative to the timestamps of the two read posts you cited and I can objectively find 3 posts in LS's filter that I could see solidify an LS scumread. I am willing to give Trfel more time after crosschecking LS's filter. | ||
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On July 07 2015 09:22 ritoky wrote: Can someone tell me why OWS is town? And why his drive-by posting is being ignored, but mine wasn't. Thanx. Fuck me, it's almost 1:30am and I have to go to bed. I am not townreading OWS. Just looking at his filter, I assume the sheep marv comment is coming from sheeping marv on voting you (ritoky) but he's not said anything about you nor why voting you is a better bet than keeping his vote on HF. I'd like to see OWS's thoughts on you and Holyflare, and others if he has them. | ||
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On July 07 2015 09:25 ObiWanShinobi wrote: How is this thread 79 pages already? There you are! If you can answer my questions when you have the chance that would be grand. | ||
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Scumreads on ritoky, milo109, LS, HF, Palmar, BM. (Obviously with 5 mafia, I'm wrong somewhere) I'm sure I'm wrong somewhere on my townreads but it might take more than d1 to resolve. Trfel I'm holding at null until further explanation. Meepak is pure policy (absolutely nothing) and BlueHunter, is mostly pure policy, though didn't like the blue hunting parts in his post. | ||
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On July 07 2015 09:33 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Rso and Hf stop fighting. You make the thread unreadable when you fight like this. 1000% | ||
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On July 07 2015 09:31 Holyflare wrote: holy fucking shit i want to know why trfel changed his read in between with such basic ls answers you have turned it into 2 pages of useless shit and you don't even know the answer fuck off Wouldn't call her perspective "useless shit" tbh, if you're scumreading someone or looking close at someone you probably want to see for yourself whether what they are saying could make sense... | ||
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On July 07 2015 18:09 boxerfred wrote: Also I might refrain from my HF scum lean, the read change from Trfel that he observed was really good. Still need to catch up. I thought it was good when I first saw his post too. But HF is really good at taking things out of context if/when he's scum. Even if he's town the post is flawed because LS' filter showed some reasonable basis for the change. The easiest way to cross check that is to look at LightningStrike's filter against the time stamps provided. It is a little annoying to do because the time stamps are in Korean time but once I did I found three quotes that I objectively found scummy in his filter before Trfel even explained it. (You hit the quote button and you'll find time stamp quoted in KST.) | ||
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On July 07 2015 17:02 KelsierSC wrote: last game I played with lightning strike he was town, he did 1000 scummy things in the first day but despite this he had the majority of the game calling him town and saying things like "it's just LS" this game he actually feels better to me like yeh he made a few weird reads but he seems pretty relaxed and again he is making a lot of posts. so either LS got better at mafia overnight and is better at looking townie when he is mafia, which if i recall isn't the consensus, apparently he is easy to catch as mafia. or he is town and we have people trying to push a lynch on him. I'm not liking damdred at all at this point as a result. Since you brought it up, Vivax raised a point earlier that he thought Damdred questioning of LS was bait worthy/loaded. I quoted several of the questions and Damdreds conclusions and found nothing wrong feeling the questions were straightforward. I'm on mobile atm but you should be able to find them in my filter. If you had an opinion on that exchange that might be the place to start. I'm town reading Damdred atm but he has tricked me before. | ||
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On July 07 2015 19:08 Oatsmaster wrote: Hts, if ls did objectively scummy things, why aren't you voting for him? Prior to my going to bed I thought Milo was far worse. I was pretty clear why I didn't like him. It sounds like he's posted since so will read closely again. The 3 quotes I was referring to was where he responded to Trfel about the ritoky DT claim. That was around the time I know Damdred and I were asking Trfel what he thought on ritoky. | ||
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On July 07 2015 19:10 marvellosity wrote: Anyone know scott here? Is he usually a non-entity? how about milo? Scott has sometimes afked in his games as both alignments. Milo only one game (HG ch1) and his posting is low volume in that game. My scum read wasn't on volume though. | ||
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On July 07 2015 01:00 Half the Sky wrote: For emphasis, in case it's lost in the post: Milo I want to see explanations for your initial reads: My concern on your filter in general is this is pretty much how you played in Holy Guardians when you were mafia. I don't think you had explanations for pretty much any of your reads and several people have opposing opinions or have substantiated them. Marv/Oats this is the first thing I had on him. There was also a long enough period of time (19h) that elapsed when I started pushing him more. | ||
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On July 07 2015 19:39 boxerfred wrote: marv thoughts on my hf read? The other thing on HF is that he was all over Trfel thinking he's rolled scum because of rolling scum twice in a row. The same thing applies to BM who rolled scum in WC3. Marv is saying that BM's play is plausible if he were mafia. If HF flips scum he hasn't mentioned him at all from what I recall so that makes that possibility much more likely. Pre associative I know but something to think about. | ||
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Give me 30-45, I'll be back on laptop by then... | ||
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On July 07 2015 09:10 Half the Sky wrote: Going through WoS and LS filters again... Those of you that know WoS, are there any general town or scum tells I should be on the lookout for? I have never played with him and reading his filter, nothing is jumping out at me as particularly scummy except for his more or less afk vote on Holyflare. I'm not sure where that vote came from tbh, can't tell if it was tone or whatnot. If you took that out, I'd probably given him a null to slight townlean for some of the posts in his filter, but if he's been around awhile, he probably could replicate that as scum. | ||
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Now back to reading... | ||
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On July 07 2015 10:40 milo109 wrote: Alright... Explanations for my reads. First of all, I've played one game. That game I happened to be scum and won. Perhaps my opening strategy is not indicative of alignment, as you have nothing to compare it to. I've not had as much time to devote to the game as I would like, so I threw out my gut reads. The game is hard when you're town. Almost everything is justifiable in one way or the other, which makes it hard to find certainty. I read this: Dislike the dumb jokes. This is mildly amusing because my first read in my other game was based on tone too. I liked WaveofShadow just for his tone, but wasn't willing to pronounce him town for it. Holyflare's filter was a pleasure to read. No reads that felt discordant or forced. Casual enough, but also not afraid to explain. He usually waits to start calling people trash. Alright, milo, not sure if you are still here, but so it goes... Re - KSC do you have any thoughts now? He's posted a tonne since you commented on him initially. KSC sometimes has those random one-liners and those aren't/can't be the only things you read from him. Looking at the timestamps it appears those were selectively placed, so does his gameplay since that (or even around those quotes) change your opinion at all? A few of us have opposing opinions on HF and a couple voiced some dissenting opinions on Damdred - for example Vivax felt that his posts were loaded or baitworthy, like he was trying to reach for an excuse to scumread LS. Do you agree with this assessment (same question also at KSC when he returns btw), I had previously quoted it. HF, I felt there is some selective reasoning. You probably want to look at the exchanges about 8-9 hours ago to get a sense of what was happening. (Admittedly he's probably not getting lynched today, but it's something that I think everyone needs to think about going on to later days.) | ||
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On July 07 2015 10:40 milo109 wrote: Alright... Explanations for my reads. First of all, I've played one game. That game I happened to be scum and won. Perhaps my opening strategy is not indicative of alignment, as you have nothing to compare it to. I've not had as much time to devote to the game as I would like, so I threw out my gut reads. The game is hard when you're town. Almost everything is justifiable in one way or the other, which makes it hard to find certainty. I read this: Dislike the dumb jokes. This is mildly amusing because my first read in my other game was based on tone too. I liked WaveofShadow just for his tone, but wasn't willing to pronounce him town for it. Holyflare's filter was a pleasure to read. No reads that felt discordant or forced. Casual enough, but also not afraid to explain. He usually waits to start calling people trash. Alright, milo, not sure if you are still here, but so it goes... Re - KSC do you have any thoughts now? He's posted a tonne since you commented on him initially. KSC sometimes has those random one-liners and those aren't/can't be the only things you read from him. Looking at the timestamps it appears those were selectively placed, so does his gameplay since that (or even around those quotes) change your opinion at all? A few of us have opposing opinions on HF and a couple voiced some dissenting opinions on Damdred - for example Vivax felt that his posts were loaded or baitworthy, like he was trying to reach for an excuse to scumread LS. Do you agree with this assessment (same question also at KSC when he returns btw), I had previously quoted it. HF, I felt there is some selective reasoning. You probably want to look at the exchanges about 8-9 hours ago to get a sense of what was happening. (Admittedly he's probably not getting lynched today, but it's something that I think everyone needs to think about going on to later days.) | ||
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Anyways back to milo - you said you found HF's case unconvincing on Trfel and you accuse him of severl things in your wall of text - does that case tell you anything about Holyflare one way or another? | ||
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On July 07 2015 21:16 Oatsmaster wrote: that single post by milo looks scummy, yes. Thread back on track? WHO KNOWS. Which one are you referring to? I pointed out what I didn't like about his read on KSC. | ||
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On July 07 2015 21:11 Palmar wrote: So we should lynch boxerfred then Oats? Why is boxerfred scum? | ||
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On July 07 2015 21:21 Oatsmaster wrote: the one marv posted like 2 pages ago. Why are you asking me this? You basically said sometime back you liked milo and/or didn't see scum in him. So I see this and I want to know what changed your opinion. | ||
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KSC, assuming I didn't misunderstand marv, he is saying his evidence for the clarity lynch was faulty, but in any case I have to re-read wos/clarity again, wos's posting so far objectively I can see being made as either alignment and compared to those more experienced with him I'm not entirely sure what to look for. Thing is, I know in other threads (not in other games, I've never actually played with him before) he's criticised his own town game, so I don't know if he really is a poor town player. | ||
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On July 07 2015 21:26 KelsierSC wrote: So HtS had you just ignored clarity for the game so far? in response to your question, I liked the read from damdred at the start, but since then it has felt very lazy to stick to it if you take my meaning. Damdred is better at reading LS than me but it feels incorrect here. I did not pay too much attention to Clarity largely because most of his interactions were before I entered the thread (I was still in Spain when the game started). I don't want to ignore him though. Nothing seems off about his vote/unvote about ritoky except for the fact he's not mentioned anything on ritoky prior to his voting. The "pussy" comment he makes sounds like a cop-out to him evaluating ritoky's gameplay closely but it could be also lazy town, and not knowing him it's hard to tell. | ||
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On July 07 2015 21:26 KelsierSC wrote: in response to your question, I liked the read from damdred at the start, but since then it has felt very lazy to stick to it if you take my meaning. Damdred is better at reading LS than me but it feels incorrect here. Alright, basically you are saying Damdred needs to evaluate other people. Thing is, I think he was. He was pushing ritoky through the ritoky dt claim and he was also pushing Trfel. He was scumreading Clarity at some point if I recall right. At this point I disagree with the baiting points made against him, but I think some follow-through on Trfel (I know he's posted since he AFKed and I went to bed) from his end would also be nice. LS has made drug references as both alignments, and in Himalayas demonstrated that he buckles under pressure as town, but his responses to Trfel don't show he's looking at ritoky beyond the dt claim (esp limited shot) - he used meta for instance to review my own (miller) claim but I didn't see where he did the same for ritoky. There was something else he said to Trfel that I thought was bad, and legit I felt caused him to change his read, and I know that was entirely separate from what Damdred commented on. | ||
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Note to self - review WoS/Clarity again. | ||
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....and I'm out. A load of stuff at work, but will do my best today. Milo if you can answer those questions that would be grand, though I get the impression you might be asleep atm... :/ | ||
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On July 07 2015 22:58 Holyflare wrote: but in general I'd say it's a lot of responding to points about things and not really having the motivation to do it any further. It's like giving the answers about what people normally do and making no conclusions. The one person she did it on was Milo and that looked a bit meh to me. Distinctly false. I pushed ritoky as well, and I still think he's scum now. This is part of what I mean about selective reasoning. Also the point on BM, he didn't do jack all in Himalayas, but in this game, he posted the wanderer claim and then AFKed. That's the difference here. I was willing to believe it when he first posted but I also had an expectation there'd be more from him. I don't even know what disingenuous even means but there's a difference here that is worthy being pointed out - if he is going to claim a town role, does he have the behaviour to back it up or is he just skating by? Marv is saying (from prior knowledge) it's possible. So calling that read poor is also pretty selective reasoning on HF's end. If he had posted nothing at all then HF might have a valid point against me. Obviously BM runs the risk of being modkilled but seeing this I needed to respond. That also said, I do agree that a BM lynch, if town, will also gain no information. | ||
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On July 08 2015 00:13 KelsierSC wrote: there's like 3 people who have jumped onto this clarity thing, you, HtS and Boxer. Boxer already had clarity as scum so that's ok but you and Hts trying to get onto a case that wasn't even correct is scummy imo. Read the top of page 98. I backed off once he stated it was correct. That was some confusion on my end. Although Palmar is saying otherwise, still I had him on my list of people to review. Also HF, re the point on milo being meh, I'm still waiting for the latest round of his answers to my questions whcih he'd say he'd provide. | ||
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So this aimed at Palmar/marvellosity - On July 07 2015 12:27 milo109 wrote: The rest of the LS read you have not really addressed at all. How can trfel make a case on LS based on the early game but the early game is when he said he doesn't scum read LS? He changed his read on LS because of questions he asked LS about ritoky. Where are they in his case? They do not feature because he is simply reading LS' filter and making scummy narratives from them. --LS's filter is SCUMMY. Read it. I can link a dozen posts that raised my eyebrow. Whether you are town or mafia, your job is to build narratives. The question is which are the most convincing. I didn't think Trfel's was particularly convincing, but at least he is offering up a thread that we can then weight. Trfel isn't even towny. Just not scummy enough to be worth going to the voting thread and changing my vote. I like believing in myself, especially early on. I'll cede that you have probably played with him for than I have, and may be right. First the way he's doign the quotes I'm believing Milo actually says "LS's filtuer is scummy" is where he starts. I am also taking issue with what I have in the bold. First he says there are a dozen posts but then he provides (the bolded) as the reason for LS being mafia? Given his last sentence on Trfel, he's goign to lynch LS for not being convincing? That explanation/justification makes zero sense. Yes a good player as either alignment has to be convincing but that's not exclusive to town so why does he use that as a justification to lynch LS? Something is way off here. I'm not saying this makes LS mafia or not, but this is a huge red flag especially in the event where LS is not mafia. The last sentence is also problematic because clearly others and even HE has weighted somewhat on LS so I have no idea where that sentence is even coming from. | ||
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On July 08 2015 00:31 marvellosity wrote: i thought he was saying there that Trfel's narrative on LS wasn't convincing Right but you two commented on his LS read and then I pulled his LS read for that reason. "LS's filter is scummy...Trfel isn't even towny, just not scummy enough...." I get what you are saying but to me the problem on milo's end here is the ls read not the trfel read. The way he split up the quotes is a bit confusing though. | ||
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On July 08 2015 01:19 Holyflare wrote: 2) Scott31337 (filter) 3) WaveofShadow (filter) 6) Vivax (filter) 7) Bill Murray (filter) 8) ritoky (filter) 11) Meapak_Ziphh (filter) 15) ObiWanShinobi (filter) 17) milo109 (filter) 19) Oatsmaster (filter) 21) rsoultin (filter) 22) Half The Sky (filter) I think I do want to remove scott too maybe... his list post just made me feel good bolded i would lynch today probably and the rest is because i'm being super lazy and just not reading to get a better idea of On mobile atm but I have two questions for you: I'm reading your filter, you've been pushing Trfel for 11/13 pages of your filter. Then I see a "maybe/maybe not" as your last comment so how did that Trfel read just disappear? Second, milo and ritoky are my top two scum reads. I've been abundantly clear where I stood on both all game. You mean to say that if we are on a scum team together that I'd be bussing two of my teammates? Or put it another way, if you are pushing my lynch you would be voting with me (a scum read) on either milo or ritoky. Does not compute. | ||
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On July 08 2015 01:23 marvellosity wrote: just to repeat my earlier request: if anyone can point to posts from ritoky that give you pause to think he might be town, please speak now I'd lynch him or milo, zero issue consolidating on rit. | ||
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On July 08 2015 01:29 Harkon wrote: My biggest reservation is still that he apparently did not know that it was majority instead of instant majority (sure, he could have lied about that) and I think a mafia should have known this. I'm not sure I see that as alignment indicative. I know at least 2 others made comments on being surprised it was majority lynch, and knowing ritoky hes capable of lying on that if he is. | ||
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On July 08 2015 02:34 Holyflare wrote: hehe anyway, milo or HtS are the lynches today, you can take your pick! If you're too lazy to read HtS then that's fine as long as you just admit that Still didn't answer what happened to the ritoky or Trfel reads you had before....yawn.... | ||
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1 I play/approach large games differently than I do minis as either alignment so comparing this game to Not Themed is really weak 2 I have pushed two players (HF can believe whatever he wants to believe on this point, I've again demonstrably shown it) this game so far which happen to be two (now one apparently) of the same players that HF is pushing 3 Large games mean I take more time looking at more people, since it's pretty easy for scummers to skate by. I can see how people can see that as scummy but when necessary I will consolidate on people (and will do now, seeing as people are voting ritoky) that I am finding scummy. | ||
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On July 08 2015 02:43 WaveofShadow wrote: This is kind of weird. I don't know if I've ever heard anyone say that before. I'm not really considering meta anyway especially when I have little to no experience with you. I'm aware it will come off weird, but I've not played with you before. I mentioned it to BF when he brought up Not Themed before. | ||
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On July 08 2015 02:43 boxerfred wrote: That said, who are you top scum reads and why? milo and ritoky - Milo was scummy for coming off the gate and making scumreads without explanations - I question him on his reads - he comes back and responds with why he saw KSC a certain way and the LS read also made no sense to me given how he phrased it. I didn't like his response re: KSC and since left a few more questions for him. ritoky made several "drive by" reads and I questioned him on these reads as well. First he starts off with the one of "milo/ls/third person I cannot remember offhand" must be scum, just assuming someone in there is scum because they all gave what he considered easy reads on Oats. That's great but where's the follow through. Even regardless of the fact he'd say he'd have to afk, I took same issue with what he raised with KSC and myself - why is he discounting that both of us if town could be misreading him. He's not looking further at our gameplay. And then when pressured, he claims the 1 shot dt which I had agreed is a safe role to claim and I unvoted thinking he'd follow through on some of his initial concerns. Separate of my scumread, since then he's scumread and dropped OWS, so I have no idea where he's going at this point. | ||
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On July 08 2015 02:55 rsoultin wrote: ...okay so i'm not going to catch up before lab, and definitely not before EoD while y'all continue to spam this up i'd appreciate a rundown...? like why everyone switched back over to ritoky? Consolidation I believe it was, what some were talking on earlier in the thread - the two I personally want to lynch are milo/ritoky provided I don't find something eye popping in the filters I'm looking through but HF is having this weird (at best) push on me despite wanting to also lynch milo (and ritoky earlier before he just dropped that now) | ||
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On July 08 2015 02:58 Vivax wrote: Would lynch Wave. He didn't do jack all to push something. As town he should compose a certain threat level to scum players but i I were scum this game I would just assume he's a docile sheep that won't hurt me, simply cause he'd be on my team. There's a bit of questioning there, a few townreads here, an angry vote on HF somewhere, but I totallly don't get a vibe of ambition to find the mafia from his posts. Are you still getting the same scum vibes from Damdred? | ||
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On July 08 2015 03:02 Vivax wrote: Dunno have to read him in his entirety. For now I'd like to ask why we're voting the claimed cop. The behaviour imo doesn't back his claim up, the point was also made that 1-shot anything is an easy claim to make. If you look at his reads throughout all of day 1, he presents two lists of reads (ls/milo/x) and then of those scumreading him (damdred, ksc,myself and a 4th) and just assumes soemone on there is scum profiting off a bad read which in of itself ISN'T a bad thing however, you'd be expecting some follow through on those initial reads. He was asked if he had any scumreads and he apparently didn't have any and he scumread and dropped OWS - at this point it's not clear where his scumreads are in the game. He did post he'd be on low activity and I can appreciate that with RL but he doesn't need a 20 page filter to make a shortlist of top scumreads. | ||
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On July 08 2015 03:10 Oatsmaster wrote: this is more of a summary of his filter than anything near analysis. Maybe I need to bold words for you to see what I'm talking about. | ||
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On July 08 2015 03:10 Holyflare wrote: he might be playing like mafia but then there's 4 other mafia in this game so i'd prefer we focus on those other people for a change and since HtS is blatently ignoring everything I write I don't mind lynching her at all. I don't mind milo lynch but I want people to talk about him with me. I'll be blunt here, I think you could be mafia and if you are, you have done a great job in the past derailing people with emotion and/or taking things out of context. I am still not at all impressed how/why you dropped the Trfel read or why you consider myself (or milo from your end) scummier than he. | ||
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On July 08 2015 03:15 milo109 wrote: Yo HtS, I don't really understand this style of play. I'll answer your questions, but may I ask why you have decided to have this rather elongated conversation with me, a scum read? I still think KelsierSC is scum, yes. He has had the opposite reaction to me on almost every major event in the game. I've also disliked most of his one-liners, and that is almost all of his posting. I also think there is scum on both the town and mafia side of his list, something a mafia would almost have to do. As for Damdred, I also still think he is mafia. I voted for Ritoky because there isn't enough time to get a wagon started on the other two, but I would advise looking at them. HF is weird. You're weird. LS is weird. Rsoultin is weird. Who knows if that is mafia indicative or not? You're new-ish to TL (and mafia in general? I don't know) my approach is if I feel soemting is scummy I question it, and I generally question things I don't understand or find scummy or make comparisons, etc - it's possible that townies - especially newbies - do scummy things as well. I look and someone and I try to resolve those differences/scumreads etc and if I can't or think there's too much evidence you are scum or find you or a single person the scummiest of those I'm looking at, then I think you should be lynched. This conversation is elongated because 1) you've been out of thread for periods of a time - not indicatative imo, that is just how it's been and 2) honestly every answer I see brings up another question. I'm not asking for the sake of asking, particularly when I'm trying to decide between you and soemone else. That is just how it is day 1 if you are town. The issue for you at this point is that a lot of other people are also finding you scummy and have brought up your name - not just me. You read my filter I think but if you are town and you've read my filter you may want to read other's filters and see where those reads are coming from. | ||
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On July 08 2015 03:26 ruXxar wrote: I don't want to lynch ritoky unless we absolutely have to. It's likely mafia will either NK or RB him. If they NK him, great for us, 1 question mark out of the way. If they RB him, also great, 1 less RB on another potential PR. If he's mafia, we gain incredibly little information due to his contribution. If he lives until tomorrow and doesn't provide anything useful we can lynch him. Current would lynch list: Rsoultin(Didn't like her derailing of HF's questioning + other reasons) Vivax(Don't like his push on geript) Milo(His push on LS) I'm uncertain about Trfel atm. There's something really weird going on with him and I don't know what it is. I want to give him more time to give his general thoughts on the game before i take a stance, but his play so far has been terrible. I agree with you on milo, but re: Vivax how are you distinguishing between a scummy push versus someone who is tunnelled (I'm getting the impression that you are scmreading him for the push) and do you have any thoughts on Vivax's other pushes? Trfel I had as a null read until he did more but as I said, the longer he fails to post...he did say he'd be here closer to EoD....ugh. | ||
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On July 08 2015 03:15 milo109 wrote: Yo HtS, I don't really understand this style of play. I'll answer your questions, but may I ask why you have decided to have this rather elongated conversation with me, a scum read? I still think KelsierSC is scum, yes. He has had the opposite reaction to me on almost every major event in the game. I've also disliked most of his one-liners, and that is almost all of his posting. I also think there is scum on both the town and mafia side of his list, something a mafia would almost have to do. As for Damdred, I also still think he is mafia. I voted for Ritoky because there isn't enough time to get a wagon started on the other two, but I would advise looking at them. HF is weird. You're weird. LS is weird. Rsoultin is weird. Who knows if that is mafia indicative or not? ...and this. ##unvote ##vote milo109 | ||
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Look at the final page (page 3) of his filter, he goes right from the post I quoted above to the list post that you cited. As in, from "who knows if that is mafia indicative...." to throwing us on a would-lynch list. See the problem now? | ||
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On July 08 2015 04:06 Vivax wrote: Not a big fan of this milo wagon. He seems like a newbie to me Have you looked into why he's being scumread? It has nothing to do with his newbie status. | ||
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Well Harkon, for what it's worth....(bolded) On July 08 2015 03:15 milo109 wrote: Yo HtS, I don't really understand this style of play. I'll answer your questions, but may I ask why you have decided to have this rather elongated conversation with me, a scum read? I still think KelsierSC is scum, yes. He has had the opposite reaction to me on almost every major event in the game. I've also disliked most of his one-liners, and that is almost all of his posting. I also think there is scum on both the town and mafia side of his list, something a mafia would almost have to do. As for Damdred, I also still think he is mafia. I voted for Ritoky because there isn't enough time to get a wagon started on the other two, but I would advise looking at them. HF is weird. You're weird. LS is weird. Rsoultin is weird. Who knows if that is mafia indicative or not? I've never had one-shot anythings in any of my games - should I assume that multiple x-shot roles in the same game are possible? | ||
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On July 08 2015 04:22 Harkon wrote: That quote seems pretty irrelevant considering that ritoky claimed his role. And yeah, mutiple x-shot roles are possible. the question however is how likely do you think it is that both of the wagons we created today randomly hit 2 cops. Very unlikely. I didn't believe ritoky's claim based on the rest of his gameplay and I don't believe milo's claim now. | ||
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My vote was on you, I can't vote myself. I said a bazillion times you and he were my top two lynches. What is there for me to respond to? Not to mention you asked others why they werent' voting either one of us. | ||
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My last read on Trfel was null....and waiting for him to return to thread. If you had an adequate reason to drop the read on Trfel that's one thing but you dropping the read on ritoky after you had the three of our names bolded also raised questions as to why. I told you also why I wasnt' responding to you - I am also sick and tired of fighting with you, and I'd rather be more productive looking at others that we could be missing on. I haven't gotten a chance to look at the other people I'd had wanted to look and obviously at this point I do have a bad feeling scummers (maybe nto all of them, who knows) are just skating by. I believe in the cases against both based on the gameplay of both but I've done it before and I've been wrong and if I am tunnelled on someone I shouldn't be, it's probably because of suboptimal play on my end, my target(s)' play or both. It's happened in Titanic 7, it's happened in Aperture, and it wouldn't surprise me at this point if it happened here. | ||
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On July 08 2015 04:36 Harkon wrote: Would you please answer HF before he has an aneurysm? I just did. It may or may not satisfy him, but it is what it is. | ||
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On July 08 2015 04:54 Holyflare wrote: anyone wanna do some crazy shenanigans onto people that nobody has mentioned for ages? :D In a world where all three of us being mentioned for lynch are town, who do you think are scummers skating by? There are two hours here, we should be expecting more people to come by you'd think for EoD. I agree on consolidation but there is still some time to talk. | ||
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On July 08 2015 04:58 Holyflare wrote: you still need to explain your read: you say i'm scummy for thinking you're bussing a team mate but then you say i'm bussing my team mate why? Trfel? I said I wasn't scumreading him. Marv asked the question better, why you thought my thinking couldn't be coming from town. I also couched that two ways too, why you'd vote me or milo or whoever when you're voting with the other person (who you are scumreading from the list you posted). The first phrase doesn't necessarily make you scum (did I say it did in that post? don't think so) - but if you are town, it should make you realise you are more likely to be wrong based on the logic you were using. Unless you meant the others I scumread, you have been known to bus people from the off and I woudln't discount it out of the realm of possibilities. | ||
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On July 08 2015 05:01 ritoky wrote: people who left no impression on me: BM, vivax, breshke, WoS people i would lynch cuz they were wrong: damdred if we're gonna shennanie onto some1 not mentioned, probably be one of these for me. BM I can see but the concern was raised there'd be no information if he was MLed. He very well could be scum. wos I'd already read but nothing had jumped out as scummy for me, ignoring meta obvoiusly since I've not played with him. Breshke is scumreading Trfel and Scott atm. Hm, someone said he was likely town for interacting WITH the thread instead of around (was that Harkon? geript? I forget....) but in his posts, he's talking about them, but I imagine timezones are the reason he can't push effectively. In any case, I mentioned before that by end of day he has troubel getting scumreads as scum, and the fact he has a few plus a look at Ras means he's probably town. Vivax had scumreads on geript, Damdred and Trfel....the nature of those reads, I didnt' agree on his read on Damdred, but... | ||
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On July 08 2015 05:11 geript wrote: Clarity_nl Vivax Bill Murray Meapak_Ziphh Trfel ObiWanShinobi Damdred rsoultin XEliteBlueHunter69X I still think I'd rather lynch Damdred or Bill Murray. Damdred doesn't seem to be thinking anything like how he thinks as town and BM is a great fall back if we don't want to lynch into claims. Of the claims, I think Ritoky's the better lynch. Alright, lemme take a pass at Damdred's/rsoultin's filters. I had been townreading them before and I have been tricked by both. If we're going to talk about Damdred though I think we should also talk about whether his reads on LS were fabricated or grasping for straws or baitworthy - Vivax seemed to really push that idea, so if he's town this is the time to talk about that. Personally I did NOT think there was problems with that but there was an expectation that he'd follow up on Trfel or what have you. | ||
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On July 06 2015 23:11 rsoultin wrote: Lol ruxx/hf prob scum Get rekt To the rest of y'all...learn to read Pushes ruxxar after that. Is doubting that Damdred is town.... If you're going to argue that she hasn't been memorable that's a different argument I have to filter dive her to look at her other reads besides you.... On July 07 2015 03:22 rsoultin wrote: disregard i'm possibly just being more paranoid about ruxxar, because some of the biggest clues to his scumgame, apart from that damning post end-game in his first newbie where he basically described how he was playing mafia in himalayas to the world lol ><, were in the wording he had a completely unnatural reaction to holyflare's "but i'm town guys really" whining in particular i could retrieve the post like my only reservation on the whole wording thing really is that it might be a language thing, but i didn't like the combination with the soft push when everyone was up my ass The only question I have after going through her filter is how/why she drops the ruxxar read for milo. Or rather why she drops the ruxxar read altogether. She talks about ruxxar quite a bit in her filter. And I don't think her read on Damdred was hard scum but she had concerns on it. I don't think I'd lynch her without her talking about that stuff though. | ||
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What is making you think he's not town? Is it his method of scumhunting? Is it his pushes on his targets (LS/Trfel/Wave, etc) or was it him dropping the LS read? You didn't like his wave read, and Damdred is saying that wos doesn't seem to care about the game. Are you lot thinking he's zeroing in on a pattern of "easy" lynches? I know we know the deal on LS (before he dropped it) and Trfel wasn't playing optimally regardless of what people think on him, and wos has been highly critical of his own town game. It's possible as a theory. But I don't understand the part in your filter about "that's not whom Damdred should be choosing" as a lynch though when he goes on wave. KSC I know you found this read weird too. I'm reading the filter and I don't know if I'm missing something. | ||
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On July 08 2015 06:43 Breshke wrote: Hats fml I ment hts Yes, will do. | ||
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On July 08 2015 06:45 Clarity_nl wrote: We'll have 24 hours to talk about whatever you guys wanna talk about but right now switch to BM or explain why you won't. Yeah, my fault, just hang tight for another 13 minutes. Who else are we waiting on? | ||
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On July 08 2015 06:49 geript wrote: Didn't HTS claim miller too? I did. I claimed the second I started playing. Admittedly about 12-14h into the game, but I was going to be inactive up til then. | ||
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ritoky first and then milo. ritoky claimed 1 shot and then milo 2 shot. | ||
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He voted? | ||
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On July 08 2015 07:11 LightningStrike wrote: How can you get both of your checks back so fast when I don't think you can use both of your checks in 1 night? I thought marv already quizzed them on how they could use their checks. Not sure why he'd say this. Ehhhhh, hold on. | ||
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He's probably just scumreading them, at least he did MZ, but why HF now? | ||
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Just skimming the thread on mobile, MZ is looking better and milo might actually not be scum. Onwards... | ||
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On July 08 2015 11:23 milo109 wrote: Alright. I figured out the game. The mafia team is: MZ HF LS Scott Rsoultin/Damdred This is in order of certainty. When I flip, remember remember the seventh of July. Couple of things as I catch up - I know the associative thing has already been commented on - but why are you so sure on this when 1 HF/Rasputin were going at it pretty hard and he was trying to get her lynched eod 2 Damdred was pushing LS before he dropped that read (which raises other questions admittedly) ...but how likely do you think it is for one, let alone two pairs of scummers to be going after each other like that d1, like what could they possibly achieve (particularly if they were to get their teammate lynched that early in the game)? | ||
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He's coming off WAY more aggressive (almost borderline dickish) in his mafia game, here he's extremely passive. But that's one game though, I don't know if he's had passive mafia games in the past. I know as town he criticises himself for a poor game/scumhunting so that could be something here in his favour. If I disregarded his scumgame and didn't know how his towngame was, I'd be inclined to scumread him for the passivity, he is fielding questions but not really driving or contributing much. If anyone who 1) knows him from NSM11 or another game where he's been scum or 2) has had large-game experience with him or experience where wos has had a poor town game before can comment one way or another let me know. Meta right now is the only reason I'd give WoS a townlean. | ||
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And if I'm right on the meta comparison with WoS, then geript and Kelsier might be on to something about Damdred being suspicious. I didn't understand geript at first when geript explained the comparison on Damdred but now after this I see a world where that theory - Damdred being mafia - is making much more sense. That could also explain him dropping the LS read the way he did - it was not probable LS was getting lynched but I'd have to crosscheck timestamps between both those two's filters to see what made him drop the read. (note so I don't forget...) | ||
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On July 08 2015 22:36 Harkon wrote: Now back to the shadows I go. Regardless of alignment HF will probably come out guns blazing and OMGUS me for this, nitpick anything he can find and whine some more. It will be annoying and I will ignore it. I had a giggle reading your comments - I brought up the same thing with his dropping the read on Trfel d1 and even ritoky (what for???) in narrowing down to milo and myself and he tried to get me lynched for it. I don't recall HF attacking Trfel (if he did I stand corrected) when Trfel popped in to give the read on HF - I think that was after he dropped me too - and even you criticised him for being irrelevant. Also he called my push uninspired (lol, whatever that means, I was at it with/on milo all of d1) and said Ras's push on ruxxar was BS but she's been back and forth with him on that. So just how he's scumreading people also was suspect, which is why I chose to look into HF's reasoning for scumreading Ras, because something just didn't seem right. His response to my thoughts on her scumreading Ruxxar and then wanting to push her still was just......ew. Trfel is a bit more contentious largely because he's been constantly behind, yet I've seen the scummy traits he's done in town games but in his favour, he had the very same problem in Assassination (a post-restricted) game as he's having here and now I think of it, I remember scumreading him in Assassination for the same reasons (which turned out to be wrong). I very well could be wrong on Trfel as well like I was in Assassination. He hasn't rolled scum often tbh in his time here and was pretty on it in NSM11. HF is still a scumread for me to be sure. It got to the point I purposely ignored him because it just fell in line with him trying to rile people (me anyways) up as I was trying to do things or read filters. It certainly fit the picture from Himalayas anyhow. | ||
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On July 08 2015 23:12 marvellosity wrote: i also still think ritoky is mafia. Same. | ||
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Palmar a little more difficult but I have a hunch someone in there is mafia flying under the radar. | ||
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And your desire to "lynch scott tomorrow" seems to have come from his 98% BM comment yet you liked his lists earlier. Same quote where you drop him and try to push Ras which others have pointed out the issue with that. On July 08 2015 07:03 Holyflare wrote: whatever trevor probably should lynch scott tomorrow (3 minutes after the lynch) Do you still want to lynch either of Scott or Ras, or one over the other? You don't mention the former at all since that last quote 3m after EoD. Even after Breshke brings him up! Why does it look like you are trying to see what sticks? (still reading through more filters....) | ||
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What gives me pause (is this the same thing you mean Breshke) is Scott's answer to Damdred's question: On July 08 2015 07:48 scott31337 wrote: It makes sense - His first and basically only post was wanderer. No else claimed wanderer(which they should have if they were D1, like Miller). I see it was a stupid remark like my drunk post the last game and I need to refrain from posting with emotion. It's not a bad lynch if he was going to be useless anyway I find it funny I started to believe Ziphh when he was mentioning different pages he was going thru in the thread and to give him a chance - and that has somehow stopped The key words here being "first and basically only post" - I know when he gave me a townlean he also took either a listpost or something else that he considered me towny on. Would he have given me the same read if I did jack all d1? Somehow I doubt it. On July 07 2015 05:15 scott31337 wrote: Her, BTW. Usually it's a decent strategy to claim self-aware miller/wanderer in day 1 - if you try it later when you're already checked or being pressured no body will believe it. No body else has claimed miller as of yet (and BM claimed wanderer). I mean don't give her a confirmed town 100%, just look more into her thoughts and agenda - and at the moment they seem okay. HF had a good point though. Why did you "hardclaim" cop while Rsoul was being pressured? Why did you time it then? Why did you say it at all? What do you think of Palmar so far? I guess for now I go with the believe ritoky on his claim for today. (see bolded in second quote) So why did he believe BM? BM did jack all after the wanderer post. He tells others to look into MY thoughts and agenda. Why didn't he do the same with BM or even think that the fact there was no thoughts or agenda could be problematic? I don't know. But I don't think this is adding up. TMI? Breshke or anyone else - comments? | ||
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First off, well done Palmar. marv lives another day I'm most inclined to agree that Damdred is scum here. Re-read his filter and agreed with Harkon/EBH comments on Damdred. And geript like I said n1, I'll admit I didn't understand your explanation at first but once I did the metaread on WoS (whom Damdred pushed) that both OWS and marv confirmed, I became more confident you and KSC were onto something with Damdred. Well done. As for other roles... | ||
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On July 09 2015 08:35 scott31337 wrote: Sorry Damdred, you play better then this. I had a post on HTS and how she questioned me on the wanderer.+ Show Spoiler + On July 09 2015 02:44 Half the Sky wrote: It's a blue sham lets see if it works Kappa Reading Scott's filter. I don't like the beginning of game mindmeld concept but I remembered he also brought up a good point on BF that initially made me wonder if the latter is is flying under the radar. What gives me pause (is this the same thing you mean Breshke) is Scott's answer to Damdred's question: The key words here being "first and basically only post" - I know when he gave me a townlean he also took either a listpost or something else that he considered me towny on. Would he have given me the same read if I did jack all d1? Somehow I doubt it. (see bolded in second quote) So why did he believe BM? BM did jack all after the wanderer post. He tells others to look into MY thoughts and agenda. Why didn't he do the same with BM or even think that the fact there was no thoughts or agenda could be problematic? I don't know. But I don't think this is adding up. TMI? Breshke or anyone else - comments? I believed BM's wanderer claim just like I believed your miller claim - because it was in your first post and no one CC'ed. Like I said, BM wasn't a terrible lynch (non but I was pretty confident it was true. Should I not believe your miller claim? Scott that's not at all I was getting at. You described my claim by talking about my gameplay. As in the concept that there has to be behaviour to back it up. When you believed BM or made the argument for him, you mentioned it was the only post he made. There was no gameplay to back it up. That's the contradiction I'm trying to point out. Am I making sense now? | ||
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On July 09 2015 10:02 WaveofShadow wrote: I remember thinking Trfel is town purely because he is playing nothing like the last game where I was scum with him, but I feel like that on its own is kinda silly. Most of all he's likely town simply because he doesn't act/play this terribly as scum. brb I'm thinking he had a VERY similar game like this in Assassination and that was a post-restricted game. | ||
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On July 09 2015 08:48 Clarity_nl wrote: That's making the assumption marv was getting hit and palmar saved him That is my world as well. As for the milo/ritoky RB claims... | ||
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On July 09 2015 09:49 Breshke wrote: So if damdred is mafia does that mean milo is mafia? Or could there be two mafia RB with this many roles I'm not sure In a world where all claims are true.... we have tracker (geript), 1shot dt (rit), 2shot dt (milo), 2-shot JK (Damdred), 2-shot banisher (Palmar) ehhhhhh..... Honestly, I would say town are OP here even with 2 RBs now that I think of it. Even if Damdred is scum, and the rest of the claims are true, I'd say town are OP. I mean 3 investigative roles? | ||
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On July 09 2015 22:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Also having a JK and banisher seems really unlikely since they are very very similar roles. From a setup standpoint, I think it's just problematic in general that when scum have 2 default kp (esp night 1) that three KP-stopping roles are in play (I believe Harkon's claim and I had been toe reading him) I know marv you brought up disputing the "too many blue role" argument. The reason I brought that up is that even with limited use of PR power at what point does a 5-man mafia team become vulnerable to mass claiming? (And no assassin in this game) I know JAT brought that up in the Himalayas obs qt as a criticism of the Assassination game and if we were at a point in the game where - let's say all roles were true - boom now you have all these mass claims. IDK. But from a pure claim analysis standpoint, (yes I am considering individual behaviours and have and separately) but you just have to wonder at what point certain types of abilities (2kp < 3 prots?) (amount of information from 2 dts vs number of RBs, etc etc) start to not make sense. I realise it's all wifomy but I just wanted to get it out there - am I missing something? I have not used limited power roles (except Veteran) in my games and I know when I worked with (then cohost) BH on TL LXX he has talked about limited shot roles but to use then extensively I do not have the knowledge on balancing that out. If you or geript can comment on that it might help. | ||
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JK action N1, as Oats said should be a defensive one. I know in Himalayas, a scummer WAS JKed offensively but that individual (or I should say the original individual) was also likely mistakenly townread, that was more coincidence than intentional. But I feel that Damdred is exp enough he should know how to JK. | ||
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On July 09 2015 23:08 Breshke wrote: The way i see it we lynch damdred and hardon is around D3 or we lynch milo and either geript or ritoky is around D3 probably ritoky as he seems to be busy. Let's say in some "bizarro world" in geript's words, that Damdred flips JK. Absent Harkon's claim (and regardless of whom you think it is), do you have any behaviour related reason to scumread him? | ||
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I'm not complaining. | ||
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Re HF - no change there, agreed with you and Hark. Agreed on the others.... For discussion on that 5th scummer.... MZ? Agreed on the comments said last night ritoky > milo, etc. Other low profile people? Vivax? Trfel (doubt it but wouldn't mind arguments)? BF? Scott? | ||
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Hold on... | ||
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On July 09 2015 23:28 LightningStrike wrote: That wasn't the point. The point was that either got lucky or they had felt like Palmar could of been blue or felt like he was a big enough threat(WTF) that he should of been night killed anyways. Also it kinda bugging me that HF is alive atm but maybe when Day 3 comes we could talk about HF. I think Ras suggested it but Harkon/Palmar kills suggest someone that knew could read them well (a "big" or I think she meant high-profile player) would suggest HF. I'd agree on this point. WIFOM yes, but it is very much in the realm of possibilities. Even absent this there is behavior-based support for scum HF here. | ||
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On July 09 2015 23:43 Damdred wrote: could have, he has a lack of suspicion towards ritoky, his first reaction start of day was a red check instead of questioning the claim on ritoky. He totally believes ritoky without any doubts and your claim as well, its a bit odd. On the other side his posts about how he wants to hard defend me are really strange and leave me feeling odd especially when in other posts he infers I am probably scum anyway? Its just strange and doesn't seem like any actions a cop would take also his reaction test bore nothing worth mentioning to us just called us donkeys Will ask you the same question I asked Breshke given the bolded. Absent the claim do you have any behavior based reason to scumread Harkon? | ||
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I mean in a world that Damdred is real JK and given the 3 prot argument I can see a doubt there but... | ||
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1 Exchange between Obi/him - His responses to Obi seem reasonably town, he doesn't care what OWS thinks, etc. Could be a slight town tell here. 2 Comments on Breshke - This I found REALLLLY tenuous On July 08 2015 23:52 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: [...] I also have this post as being particularly strange Honestly most of the time I see people "not like" townreads on them it is because they think its some sort of reverse psychology as mafia where you are diverting credit towards yourself and it makes you look cool. Actually it just looks like an empty post where you tell a guy "actually your town read is wrong lolz" I had to read this about 10x to figure out what he meant but I don't know why a scummer would want to draw attention to themselves like this. Breshke especially as scum is more aggressive to his scum reads (yeh yeh meta w/e) but even ignoring meta the responses Breshke gives are reasonable - for geript's standards for what we know (at that time) Breshke could understandably think that geript is giving an "easy" townread on him based on familiarity. I don't see why EBH is making a big deal out of nothing. That is of course if I'm understanding this right. 3 BM as wanderer - could come as either alignment 4 Milo not being scum - well roles here are limited shot so trying to clear milo off this is weak and I disagree that there were "limited red flags". Disagreeing alone doesn't make him scum but it's something to think about if he does flip scum. 5 The KSC/Breshke/OWS question - I guess given EBH filter it COULD make sense (if you look at his filter) but those three I ALSO have been townreading so that comment does strike me as weird. 6 Analysis on KP/Damdred - Not knowing who he is, his Damdred comments could be coming from either alignment. It's murky on my end but these are my thoughts. | ||
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On July 10 2015 00:05 Breshke wrote: Did you ask me if I scum read harkon HTS? If you did I missed it and if you did then I'm not really interested in considering him absent the claim because it's pointless. Maybe if it was a shitter like me then sure the person could be mafia because I could claim vet then just be left alive because I might say some alright stuff but I probably won't solve the game like that's what I could argue as scum but JAT can't really do that he either dies very soon or lives long enough to figure the game out. If we start lynching town after town and JAT is alive then I'll just vig shoot him Yes I did. But fair enough, I know what you meant. Now I'm off. | ||
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Most of the stuff I see on EBH I would have him as null - not knowing him - one potential caution is I don't know where he currently stands with these three he's mentioning nor is he pushing them much beyond mentioning them. KSC is falling off - he mentioned that n1 - granted it's hard to push someone not around Breshke/Obi - I already said about Breshke I don't think his argument is convincing, Obi I will put a dunce hat on post-game if he actually is scum. If he's dropped these folks, then besides the "vet" talk I don't know where he stands with potential scumreads. So again, nullish, but watch out. | ||
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Could Rasputin be scum? Possibly. I think she's more likely town atm. I know in Linux we had a similar situation where then scum HF and myself were pushing town Ras for not having reads or scumreads. But she pushed back the same way she did here because she lacked time she wasn't going to post shit for the sake of posting shit. So I feel that aspect of her game is within town boundaries. If she does jack all over the weekend I will have problems. In any case, I get what she's trying to say about ruXxar. But just even a few comments on other players would at least help guide town. She has a list of four, so that's a start. As for her not having reads or enough reads I think it's justified by a simple argument - inactive players aren't going to have great reads. As for the lack of time issue here's the way to solve her on that - she promised more stuff on the weekend. Chances of her being NKed are practically zero with all the claimed blues I would think. So she has her opportunity. I know Trfel is in school too from conversations I have had with him prior to and outside the game....but at the same time even a few comments from both of them would be grand on other players. Doesn't even need to be a case...is something jumping out? That's just a basic I have. If time is a problem just drive discussion forward on a couple of players town has as tossups. Wave I still think is town but input from him will be nice. That's how I think I'm going to start looking at some of these others though I can't figure out. The Damdred, milo/ritoky, MZ circle is more or less sorted and discussed. | ||
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If someone else did that I would have a bigger problem but it's LS. And as said before the role he claims is verifiable by extra kp or someone backing him up after the fact. If he is lying, I can think of certain questions that might catch him out but point is he's made himself solvable within a cycles time. | ||
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Of those people I have town on I could be wrong on Boxerfred (he's a lean but still) and Ras (as stated). I know some have their doubts on KSC and Breske I think both are town. So two in the Damdred/milo/rit, and absent the claims all had reason to question their gameplay. MZ and HF would be 4 for me and 5th scum is someone in my re evaluate list. | ||
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To be fair he's not. I ran once with a friend with a slogan of "runners high is better than sex" or something like that and she got a few comments from people that she's probably doing it wrong xD In any case good to see you've taken it up. It is hard to get started but patience is the way to go. Good luck! | ||
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LOL no pun intended I swear haha. Seriously though I read his filter and I struggled to get a good read on him. I saw tells but could not get a strong conclusion and already explained why but will re-read latter comments. | ||
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On July 10 2015 23:50 Clarity_nl wrote: Milo went from calling Kelsier scum immediately after Kelsier said Damdred is scum, to scumreading damdred when there was no longer pressure on him, without reasons. This is pretty much the simular thing that went down in Holy Guardians he was hard defending the scummy townies in Chocolate and Templar who both eventually got mislynched because they were legitimately playing scummy. No one picked up on it that game. TMI is the pattern here. | ||
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On July 11 2015 00:03 Holyflare wrote: So why did you ignore the question when i was asking about milo defending trfel? :s I mean like... You never even acknowledged it and you're telling me you knew this all along and didn't say anything about it when it's his mafia meta to do exactly what i was saying? :s:s I could be wrong but may have been the time I had you on ignore. I had been scum reading milo for other reasons anyhow through d1. | ||
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I'd like to know top reads (scum reads at very worst) from him EBH, Oats. I think Scott posted recently but if you didn't same thing please. | ||
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On July 11 2015 00:15 ruXxar wrote: HTS, what makes you think KSC and Breshke are town? The short answer to both questions is d1 play. I know you hate the use of meta but that helped me with Breshke. For KSC he also pinged Damdred on the nature of his pushes (esp wave) early on. KSC has fallen off but skimming the area where LS claimed I know he got back in at some point so if you have reason to scumread him on d2 play, what is it? Or is it just the fact you've thinking he's fallen off? | ||
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I'm actually more interested in seeing EBH explanations for KSC and obi. What are you seeing there that some of us are not? | ||
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On July 11 2015 00:57 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: Well for meapak a few things the whole "oh no don't lynch BM to not lynch me I can't have that" is a scummy thing to do. Its pretty much exactly what I and a lot of other people would do as scum in that situation, try to seem reasonable and like you're actually weighing options on the lynch but intrinsically you are really just like "yea hopefully this makes me look townie and it gets them off me due to me not trying to preserve myself" hard to explain but a town member would just be like fuck yea lynch that dirty lurker whereas the mafia KNOWS he is town so its an awkward spot for him to manage. Then of course the palmar night kill so there has to be an old player somewhere, that's my pick. His filter is actually decent besides that, but he's not an awful garbage player so.. most of this read is definitely sheeping though. For kelsier I mean this is mostly an activity thing, guy just dropped off the face of the earth after day 1. Game is going to shit for mafia so far so he might have become uninterested. I already acknowledged in my opening post too that I found his playstyle different from his town game and peculiar. This sudden inactivity is only reinforcing my read. Obi you would just have to look trhough the database and compare games. This just looks like his scumgame to me not much more to say. That's also why its my least confident though. Fair enough. KSC makes some sense. If I had to look at KSC in a different light on d1 did he actually push Damdred on what he felt was a bad push on wave (someone brought up the LS push as being bad was it him or ras...) It's worth a double check, independent of activity. Note to self... | ||
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For Vivax, I'm going to ignore his posting volume (or lack of in this case) solely because in Assassination I think I did to some extent and (as blue in that game) pushed him to a mislynch. So I'm just focusing on only what he has and taking it from there. I think the inactivity argument has been beaten to death and alone may not necessarily be alignment indicative. 1 Reads on geript AND 2 lack of followup/evolution on Damdred. On July 07 2015 00:31 Vivax wrote: I was quite sure I was onto something when I said geript's confidene was unnatural at that stage in the game. Turns out he threw out scumreads as if he was the pro scumhunter when everyone else was way less "ticking in". On top of that it turns out those scumreads don't seem to matter much wehn he comments on a list containing one of them,v reinforcing my suspicion that it was just a show he put up to look like he was scumhunting. + Show Spoiler + On July 06 2015 09:17 geript wrote: I'm not sure if you're right on Damdred. I'm sure you're wrong on wave. I agree about Ruxx. The big thing though is that you're wrong on Wave. He's town. He also likes to swear a lot when faced with suspicion, cause he thinks when he's being a dick to people they will believe he's town. The word that came to mind for his behaviour when confronted with accusations is wannabe cowboy. I imagine this guy in disguise chewing bubble gum and spewing his brown spit in his forced attempt to look like he fits in but even google knows the truth, geript looks more like this when he is trying to do that: (picture removed from original quote) Ever since he "found the two scum" the other guy he's been bitching about is Oats when it sort of fit in with the thread sentiment. ##Vote: geript I think this could be contrived. I have seen many players simply say "mafia" "town" etc, and where he gets overconfident from I am not sure. Reading geript's filter in parallel he calls LS's response to HF's vote on Trfel mafia - from MY PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE I made nothing of that post from LS (LS comments on obvious things all the time, I'd have considered it null) but for someone like geript maybe not quite as familiar (???) with LS, LS's post says something without saying something. Objectively it makes sense that geript would call him mafia. Now where the overconfidence comes from? I have no idea. I mean he's sure not going all out on LS for it and only a day later he just has LS "not in my town circle." Vivax's post on this then goes into how geript's anger is mafia indicative. No, just no. I've seen him get angry as town when people don't read him right, when he's already been mislynched or if town make bad plays. Sure he gets mad too as scum (JOAT comes to mind) but looking at geript's filter what Vivax says about him is out of context. On July 07 2015 01:45 Vivax wrote: I retract that I would sheep on Trfel, I realized he posted more than I thought. We should kill geript for being a liar. Here's the question - WHAT DID GERIPT AT THAT TIME LIE ABOUT? It is not clear what the point of contention was in either of their filters. Also more on the odd confidence: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24525302 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488082-tl-mafia-lxxi-gaiden?page=92#1838 I read the back and forth here and even after geript is clarifying his stance, how is this "odd confidence". At least Vivax gets some points for pushing geript a little but the backing off Damdred worries me to some extent. He says he'd lynch Wave and I don't know if that's also because (likely mafia) Damdred wanted to push Wave as well. I asked Vivax later what he thought about Damdred and he gave a noncomittal and later... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488082-tl-mafia-lxxi-gaiden?page=92#1838 "Why is Damdred not playing his town game?" So it's not clear where and how that read evolved. He's contesting geript on why Damdred isn't town when he had that viewpoint himself and it's on someone that was reading as scum so what else was the purpose of that question re: Damdred? TLDR - I think his reads on geript are contrived. I also think there's a bit of soft pushing on Damdred, which I crosschecked d1, the questions weren't bad but then there also lacked followup on it. No real evolution of Damdred scum to Damdred town in final query to Geript. 3 The claims - "why are we lynching into claimed X" I know geript already commented on this but I do want to bring it up again. Vivax has been around long enough he should understand why people are disputing certain claims - be it wanderer, dt, etc. When geript contests, he gives another evasive/non-answer http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488082-tl-mafia-lxxi-gaiden?page=153#3060 So here's the question I would have had - if you weren't sure the claim was real, then what do you do instead? Evaluate behaviour. Did this happen? Looking at Vivax's filter, doesn't look like it. Even if you are bad at claim analysis, if you are reading geript you should be able to read into ritoky's (then) really short filter or milo's without even thinking of it. 4 Exchange with Boxerfred He has a series of questions with Boxerfred - Reference Vivax's filter, top half of page 5. What does he do with these questions? There is no conclusion from them, so I am led to believe he's posting just to post. That was 8 July, he afks for almost 48h, comes back to vote, but there's no apparent interest on BF. Overall conclusion Maybeeeeeee it's trash-tier town Vivax here, but I'm thinking unlikely thinking the interactions with (confirmed scum) Damdred. Ignoring meta, I think this behaviour points to a scum Vivax. AGAIN DISCLAIMER - I am NOT taking inactivity into account either way. Questions If you think I have something wrong in here shout, or geript or BF or anyone else that interacted with him more want to comment on him as well it might be helpful. | ||
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Maybe it was the nature of each of their pushes, and taking Wave's alleged meta into account it does raise where he's coming up with that. But it makes me wonder a little. A note to myself for later... | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488082-tl-mafia-lxxi-gaiden?page=163#3258 If you filter Vivax's last page you'll see that quote is below the second set of clarifications geript has - yet the read on him doesn't change. Not sure what to make of this part alone, a town Vivax (if I'm wrong) could be tunnelled, a mafia Vivax will want to keep the read for the sake of keeping the read. Damn. | ||
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So lonely in here... | ||
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What do you think of the meta read that he's useless as town (which OWS and marv subscribed to) and more ambitious as mafia. Are you aware of any prior situations where scum WoS (who has been around for awhile) has been useless? I came to the conclusion earlier that WoS was town based on his last game (NSM11 he was scum), completely different tone, aggressive and almost a dick to some people etc etc. WoS in threads outside the game has also put down his town game, and that he usually has trouble scumhunting. Which if he's town this game would appear to be true in a game with 25 players. Do you have any valid points on a scum WoS that really does jack all? Maybe he's not following up, but I don't know if that's just "oh shit I'm really confused and don't know where to go" or just that he's got a dicey RL schedule (I think he said he has kids? IDK) or whatever. Like why doesn't what he do is possible as town? | ||
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On July 11 2015 04:41 Vivax wrote: It's one of those typical cases that argue why somebody is scum cause he doesn't behave like your picture of an ideal town player (but he didn't do anything with it, but he only soft-pushed etc. completely ignoring that my impact this game isn't particularly high). A good case is rather based on showing that somebody has opinions he shouldn't have, where they conflict with things he said earlier. That's what Damdred fell for on the D1 of the game where he won cause I got mislynched. He was praising some dude who had some townreads that were Damdred's scumreads etc. That's sort of the point I was trying to progress with the first half of my case. The parts about geript and Damdred. For geript he clarified his stance. At that time why did you still want to kill him? I'll try and break this down for you - when I was reading your filter he is clarifying himself and then you go to say "I don't want to distract from killing geript, etc etc" (paraphrasing, see the quote I posted AFTER my case) so that tells me you are still very much wanting to lynch him then. Shouldn't your opinion have changed? Or did you have a reason at that time it did not? That is what I was driving at. | ||
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On July 10 2015 19:12 Vivax wrote: Feel free to give me a taste of the whip if I keep being lazy for too long. So now that you are on board with lynching Damdred, etc. Where do you stand on the rest? If you assume there's 1-2 within the claims, do you even have a hunch of where other scumreads could be? I assume WoS and MZ are (still??) on your list, if they are not then whom? | ||
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On July 11 2015 05:04 Vivax wrote: Next logical step if Damdred flips scum is to look at milo. I'm not even bothering to do anything else for the moment as it's a waste of time when there's information incoming anyway. Nearly the entire game agrees on that point. But you also did afk from the thread for nearly 48h (8-10 July) which is partially why I asked the question. | ||
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On July 11 2015 05:11 Vivax wrote: They're both on ice, I didn't even reread them so far cause I see no reason to. Doing work and posting cases at this point is at best good for burying what I write under the pile of what's incoming given that today's lynch is already decided. Semantics clarification - on ice meaning they are null or that you have "put them on ice" or put them away until post-lynch? | ||
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On July 11 2015 05:14 marvellosity wrote: Several shit-tastic tunnels you've made on me d1 say otherwise ^^^ Yeh that's why I felt it important to ask about geript. I can understand why you DIDN'T follow up on Damdred though - you say "I can see town perspective but based on my read on LS, it might be malicious" so I can buy the argument for Damdred. | ||
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On July 11 2015 05:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: No its not always true but I think barring new players and people who just don't give a fuck like coagulation and Bill Murray it's a safe statement. Especially since both Wave and Vivax are experienced enough to understand that even if they're not feeling the game it's still important to at least try and participate. Perhaps my meta reads really are out of date but I don't remember wave fucking off as town. However if they're scum they'd both be understandably discouraged and looking for excuses to stay out of the thread seeing as it appears we've caught at least two scum. Regarding the Vivax meta thing - he has mentioned a month or two ago that he was purposely trying to change his meta (trash his town meta or w/e) in Assassination and I didn't believe him at that time. Take that as you will. If Vivax is town - and he may be - it's a bit aggravating - to Clarity's point (last post) on Vivax - yeh there are 23 players left in this game and there's other shit happening in this game that is worth commenting on. Several players have voiced the concern that there are 1-2 players skating by under the claim ruckus/shitfighting/other dominant issues in the thread and at the very least if you are town, you can try to help ferret that out, otherwise we're liable to think you might be one of those people. | ||
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On July 11 2015 05:29 Harkon wrote: Sure, don't let him stop you. We will lynch you no matter what though and I will probably not consider anything you write unless you by some miracle flip town. That and MZ for that matter, also on board that whoever has LS's gun should shoot MZ, end of. | ||
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On July 11 2015 05:31 KelsierSC wrote: Vivax , what do you think of boxer at this point? Given his responses to me, don't bank on an answer anytime soon :/ | ||
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On July 11 2015 07:10 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Surprise surprise BH is putting a shitton of flavor into these posts and I haven't been reading them. As someone who has hosted once or twice I feel bad lol. Probably the only post of yours this game that I can sheep. In all seriousness, I love the flavour BH. | ||
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<3s | ||
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On July 11 2015 18:12 geript wrote: I think my preferred next lynch is rsoultin. I'll explain why later. But feel free to discuss. I've admitted before I could be wrong on my previous town read on her but I feel I'm seeing enough town tells in her limited posting. But it's Saturday... People have already brought up the shit fighting before but if I had to draw any parallels from her scum game in a scum Rasputin world.... I know she was somewhat combative (but not like this????) in Carnaval. The key word being somewhat. Maybe combative might not be the right word but snappy. I sort of remember how she went on (I think????) VayneAuthority in that game but it wasn't like here. Not sure if I can conclude definitively on this point alone esp not re-reading filters first. One thing with her is if she is accused of being scum she does get flustered and posts to stall for a response are common. You could argue that it goes hand in hand with the shitfighting in this game. There is also another scum tell that comes to mind but should a scum Ras still be alive then it's not going to be relevant until late game, irrespective of who else is still around. Wait and see... It will be harder to meta her partially because of inactivity and I'm not sure any parallels I make for a scum Rasputin are that strong. Even the shitfighting brought to mind of how she was in Himalayas when people didn't get certain elements she did. Reactions might be the only scum tell that could check out. Damdred did mention her as scum in his post but he did other people....unless you meant maybe there's something in him not talking about her all game and then she just winds up on his final post or something. I don't really recall any interaction between them early on, or nothing memorable. So maybe he skirted around her (I don't remember any comments offhand earlier on shitfighting) which might be indicative given how much attention she got from others on shitfighting. Damdred also mentioned Trfel in that post and the usual others milo and mZ it could be something or it could be nothing. I just know from reading flipped scum Damdred in the past (namely Titanic 7) I have not been great at picking the scum from his posts. Again I realise I'm rambling but overall I don't think these points are that strong. Maybe the reactions but offhand that's all I have. Need to re-read Damdred. I'd love to hear your thoughts esp if you are seeing something I'm not. | ||
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On July 11 2015 22:10 rsoultin wrote: ;o; dude you have no idea. i should get two cookies for reading all this blather lol >< If I've not been clear I'm going to hold you to higher expectations now that it's the weekend. So if you've read through do you have anything on any issue not already beaten to death? | ||
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EBH - still null BF - town lean - not memorable but struggles in scum hunting align with previous games. Oats is a sparse poster I want to say town lean because he is clashing with everyone, in down under 2 he seemed to want to fly under the radar. (Not even considering carol since he really did jack all that game) I know he's not a big case poster but that's the overall impression I get from his posts. He's putting himself out there. Scott is the other one I need to reread. And KSC I still need to recheck. | ||
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On July 11 2015 22:22 rsoultin wrote: i've talked about most things already that weren't brought up? not all, though ^^ zzz don't like threats I'll be more specific - I'm talking about two things: 1 people that might at this stage be question marks 2 town reads that you might have to reconsider for any reason | ||
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On July 11 2015 22:46 Clarity_nl wrote: Why is a milo shot bad, anyway? There's no one really defending him so are we getting information by lynching him that we wouldn't by shooting him or? It's entirely possible that I'm being dumb He claimed DT, need to force him to out that second check. Also with other high profile blues and someone armed, I'm also living in a 2 RB world. | ||
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On July 11 2015 22:48 Oatsmaster wrote: lol 16 page filter "sparse poster". This game man. That was probably a bad choice of words on my end. I'm referring to the fact you don't have a lot of content in your posts. | ||
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On July 11 2015 22:53 rsoultin wrote: so you basically think milo is town or you're living an a 2 RB world separate of his alignment? Separate of his alignment. | ||
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On July 11 2015 22:57 Clarity_nl wrote: They're intertwined. We know that damdred roleblocked ritoky. We know that milo claimed roleblocked. Both happened night 1. This means that if there is a second roleblocker, milo is 100% town. I see what you're saying. But given how he played d1 (I didn't believe either claim then) and that RBs are minimal for other roles and the subsequent play cited we also cannot eliminate the possibility that 1 if he's mafia HE is second RBer 2 he may have RBed someone who wasn't notified or could have stacked on marv. I realise these are two remote possibilities mechanically. But given his gameplay that's why I am taking everything into account. If I'm just entire wrong on the mechanics then I need to be slapped to get out of the tunnel but his gameplay ignoring the claims has been bothering me all game. | ||
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On July 11 2015 23:17 marvellosity wrote: i don't understand your point we've had millions of 30 player normals with 6+ blues and only one roleblocker. what's so odd? Really? Alright then. This is only my third ever large normal. And after Titanic 7 with two JKs, I'm just thinking to never discount the possibility of a two RBs game. | ||
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On July 11 2015 23:19 rsoultin wrote: like...the banisher and gunsmith roles are largely uneffected by roleblockers anyway, right? Scum RB supersedes all roles so no. | ||
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I'm just checking in to verify I took LS gun and blew MZ with it last night. I'll be back when I'm sober, checked in since not sure LS would be here. I am pretty pissed though he was town. | ||
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MZ I am really sorry. | ||
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On July 12 2015 07:11 rsoultin wrote: lol thanks for not being stupid xP btw...you and ls both I honestly had a short list of people I want to shoot MZ was on that list obv, but I realised tactic approach Harkon mentioned. and I thought LS had some Pokémon thing on sat nights so I wasn't sure he'd be around. anyways.... | ||
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On July 12 2015 12:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Here I am and nobody wants to talk. K back to the abyss I'm here, catching up, some filter diving right now. Long story short I vigged MZ and that was a failure. Ras in her last few posts is doing fine deconstructing against how milo could possibly be coming to the conclusions he is as a town DT. WoS, basically long and short of it is that there's a load of people that for many people in the game are clocking in at null to soemwhat scum/not memorable (vivax/ebh/scott/bf/ows, etc.) and then there's discussion on the ruxxar/hf/rasputin/trfel area that has been dominating on and off the entire game. So that would be a good starting point to start going on/for. Additionally about 2-3 of us have seen reason to re-consider townreads on KSC. | ||
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On July 12 2015 13:01 WaveofShadow wrote: Like without looking specifically I bet there's been people attempting to somehow push me while I wasn't playing (supposedly for good reason) and yet knowing very well this isn't how I normally play. Probably some scum in thar. That was one thing in the back of my mind. MZ was one of them but so was Damdred lol. I think Vivax was too but now he's trying to go after Trfel. He had you on top lynches for awhile. Is that incongruent with what you'd expect from town Vivax? BF also had you and wanted to lynch you, this is his.....4th game I think? I don't think he's had any exposure to you. Also I'm looking into Kelsier. Ritoky and others brought up how he's fallen off but there was something else too. Related to you, he said he liked (earlier) Clarity's (scum?) read on WoS yet scumread Damdred for his push on WoS so that was something that drew some attention there. Looking through earlier his filter (doublechecking the order in which tings happened) he's saying he's scumreading you for posts where you shouldn't have TRed Clarity early on. I'm trying to piece all that together atm... | ||
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On July 12 2015 13:09 WaveofShadow wrote: Actually on that note are there people who think I'm town for the same thing? I dunno if there's anything to learn on that. Wish I had TL+ so I could just 'all' the whole thread and look up my name I do. I checked your meta against NSM11 and queried the thread - both Marv and OWS said that the town read based on your meta was reasonable so I am subscribing to that at the moment. Your meta could be easily faked (I think it was BF who said that??? but don't quote me and I can see where he's coming from with that) but right now I am townreading both of those two. | ||
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On July 12 2015 13:17 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm curious though, what did YOU find in my meta? I believe I had a townread on you earlier and I believe you claimed the shot on MZ (LS gun, yes?) so I kind of want to see how you went about doing that. Yes I claimed the shot on MZ and yes LS gave me the gun N1. I assume you are asking how I came to your conclusion on your meta. Yes what led to the initial query is this (spoilered) + Show Spoiler [quotes] + On July 07 2015 09:10 Half the Sky wrote: Going through WoS and LS filters again... Those of you that know WoS, are there any general town or scum tells I should be on the lookout for? I have never played with him and reading his filter, nothing is jumping out at me as particularly scummy except for his more or less afk vote on Holyflare. I'm not sure where that vote came from tbh, can't tell if it was tone or whatnot. If you took that out, I'd probably given him a null to slight townlean for some of the posts in his filter, but if he's been around awhile, he probably could replicate that as scum. On July 07 2015 21:29 Half the Sky wrote: KSC, assuming I didn't misunderstand marv, he is saying his evidence for the clarity lynch was faulty, but in any case I have to re-read wos/clarity again, wos's posting so far objectively I can see being made as either alignment and compared to those more experienced with him I'm not entirely sure what to look for. Thing is, I know in other threads (not in other games, I've never actually played with him before) he's criticised his own town game, so I don't know if he really is a poor town player. On July 08 2015 22:08 Half the Sky wrote: Re-reading WoS filter here and in NSM 11. He's coming off WAY more aggressive (almost borderline dickish) in his mafia game, here he's extremely passive. But that's one game though, I don't know if he's had passive mafia games in the past. I know as town he criticises himself for a poor game/scumhunting so that could be something here in his favour. If I disregarded his scumgame and didn't know how his towngame was, I'd be inclined to scumread him for the passivity, he is fielding questions but not really driving or contributing much. If anyone who 1) knows him from NSM11 or another game where he's been scum or 2) has had large-game experience with him or experience where wos has had a poor town game before can comment one way or another let me know. Meta right now is the only reason I'd give WoS a townlean. That was my progression. The third quote should answer your question. | ||
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On July 11 2015 02:50 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm not sold on MZ, although marv really likes his lynch so I guess maybe. In order I would like to lynch: Damdred Milo WoS MZ Vivax Rsoultin <- I have to read up on her and HF. I said much earlier in game I think their d1 stuff was town on town, but that was before it happened like 5 more times. I definitely don't think it's scum on scum, HF makes me nervous as his posts have gotten more and more emotional and less and less Need to read up on ruxxar and to a lesser extent HTS and boxerfred because they're kinda null in my mind. I expect the entire scumteam to be in the names I put in this post. This was just prior to Damdred's lynch and then the milo talk was during nightphase. Question is, clarity is within expectations here? | ||
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On July 12 2015 13:38 WaveofShadow wrote: Not sure. I gave him a super early townread ages ago but I can't say I can meta him particularly well. I assume you mean meta again when you ask if he's 'within expectations?' Yes, just as you answered for Vivax. | ||
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On July 12 2015 13:45 WaveofShadow wrote: I've played with Vivax more often and more recently than clarity. I don't think I'd base reads purely on meta anyway normally, but anything goes this game. I don't even know though what you'd expect me to say about this post as it pertains to clarity's meta (or anyone else's for taht matter). Oh god, I'm an idiot, you just said "I can't meta him particularly well." Disregard. I really shouldn't be playing this game this late, but whatever... | ||
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On July 12 2015 13:40 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I'm losing all motivation to play this game. It's too goddamn big at this point and it's barely day 3. I'm really hoping milo and scott are mafia because, if they're not, I'm afraid I'm never going to find more mafia. Do we even have more scumreads outside of those two? Do you have any thoughts on Kelsier possibly being scum? | ||
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On July 12 2015 13:49 Trfel wrote: I'll try to start playing this game more seriously on Monday.... (no, this isn't a request to not be lynched until then, it's just information, and also a way to avoid getting modkilled for inactivity...) You're aware there's several looking to lynch you right? There's a bit of a stagnation issue trying to find scum so if you are town, we are really going to need your help. Even if it's just 30 minutes to spend on one of the below issues. I'm not sure I want to know how many pages you are behind but a good place to start is the critical issues 1 where you see the rasputin/hf/ruxxar sphere - who's the scum in that 2 your opinion on KSC (some are reconsidering his townread) 3 lot of nulls or players not making an impact as cited by others (scott/vivax/bf/wos, etc), you're in this category obv for most if not all people | ||
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On July 12 2015 13:54 ObiWanShinobi wrote: None whatsoever. Does anyone have a reason for calling him scum or what? I'd presume there's a reason his name is being dropped aside from the fact that he hasn't posted 2359623405263 times in the last hour or so. I know ritoky cited him for falling off. geript mentioned him, and shit, there was a third person besides me. Can't remember whom.... I was filter diving Vivax when I noticed the KSC read on Clarity and Damdred, contradicting reads for not liking WoS but then rechecking the filter, timeline wise, I see how it's fleshed out. Nothing to reconsider there, the read for wave was not based on inactivity and Damdred's was so that makes sense for town KSC. Right now just isolating his filter, D1 looks good, read progression on Damdred looks normal, natural. Afterwards...he's dropped off but the few questions he has asked MZ did get some info out now that we know MZ is town. in that sense MZ did make a good point against Scott and his responses on Wave/Vivax might shed some light on Vivax. Yeh looking in detail at his filter I'm going to have to move on. Inactivity/falling off is the only concern. Someone else mentioned that he might be getting demotivated if scum were to have lost their second player last night but clearly that didn't happen so that argument is shot. Moving on... | ||
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Alright, so regarding Scott...that point made by MZ whilst we're at it... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488082-tl-mafia-lxxi-gaiden?page=52#1026 On July 11 2015 06:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Biggest problem for me was his actions around the BM lynch where he was so certain BM was gonna flip town but voted him anyway. If you think BM is town then vote for me. If you think we're both town with "98%" certainty then vote no lynch. No lynch isn't the end of the world if from your perspective both people or the person with the majority is town. Scott thought BM was town but let him die for the sake of having a lynch. That's a huge red flag in my book. I'm going to start from there. I know OWS you said he was boring, but this might be an indicator "boring" might not be the only problem with him. (If someone else has already brought this up somewhere, I've missed it.) Back to the filter diving.... | ||
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On July 12 2015 14:03 Trfel wrote: And I still want to lynch Holyflare. ##vote Holyflare Is your read changing at all based on anything he's posted lately? Or is it simply reinforced? | ||
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On July 12 2015 14:16 scott31337 wrote: This is a pretty bad idea - I just was filter diving on who talked about/with Damdred - You, Boxer, Trfel and Milo looked the worst, and Breshke, HalfTheSky and Vivax look much more interactive with him. What do you think of Boxerfred? WTF? I'm really lost here....Damdred interactions were pretty damn limited and the names you mentioned (aside from Milo) are not ringing a bell at ALL (the ones you have as worst). | ||
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Quicksearch on OWS in his filter shows jack all. What on earth are you talking about? | ||
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I'm done for this morning. Didn't get through the entire filter, but I really don't like these last two quips from Scott. | ||
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On July 12 2015 14:43 Trfel wrote: He's talking about what I said to Damdred, I suppose. The nice thing about having a short filter and always spelling people's names correctly is that you can easily find every time I mention a person. I liked Damdred's early scumread of LightningStrike, and didn't want to lynch him Day 1 (voted for ritoky instead). I thought you were going to sleep now?  I just did a quicksearch on BF's filter and there's hardly anything on damdred there until the track claim. Nothing that I'd consider indicative between those two prior to the claim. Quicksearch on OWS showed he didn't like Damdred, minimal if any interaction. It's still BS. Also still raises the question that if Scott is looking into your filter, what about Damdred's hardpush on you (in his filter, not yours) makes you look bad or should that adjust his read? From a town perspective, well I know what I'd think knowing Damdred's scum play but from Scott's perspective, I'm not sure where his head was on that. His statement is still poor. And now I really need to get going. | ||
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On July 12 2015 20:13 Vivax wrote: Not a very fleshed out read yet, but his posts give me the feeling that he wants to try to sound innocent. I could buy this especially since I've had a null read on him for ages with the concern much of his comments could be coming from either alignment. | ||
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On July 12 2015 23:33 Vivax wrote: This is a post I really can't understand. He believes the claim but still wants to lynch? Meh. That's so illogical makes me think he only wanted to appease those who wanted BM. Damdred also decided to go for BM instead, for no apparent reasons. He didn't post much at all in that phase. Vivax you ninjaed me was just going to ask what you thought about Scott. MZ had a good post here: On July 11 2015 06:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Biggest problem for me was his actions around the BM lynch where he was so certain BM was gonna flip town but voted him anyway. If you think BM is town then vote for me. If you think we're both town with "98%" certainty then vote no lynch. No lynch isn't the end of the world if from your perspective both people or the person with the majority is town. Scott thought BM was town but let him die for the sake of having a lynch. That's a huge red flag in my book. | ||
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On July 12 2015 23:38 Half the Sky wrote: Vivax you ninjaed me was just going to ask what you thought about Scott. MZ had a good post here: Oats same question for you, thoughts on Scott's EoD behaviour d1 if you think he could be mafia? (Also I am paying attention to the Ras tmi arguments. I understand the argument you are making JAT. Admittedly I didn't read the meta filters on mZ but I also did trust yours LS and Marvs opinions. May need to follow up....) | ||
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On July 13 2015 02:55 Vivax wrote: Btw I'm also onboard a Kelsier lynch. D1 his uninvolvement and jokey stuff was fine but now he's plain forgettable. So I'd lynch into those three dudes (Blueh, Scott, Kelsier) and as for milo I'll need to think harder about him. I re-read EBH's filter yet again. I still cannot get a good townread on him at all. Comments after my latest assessment again - still to come from either alignment. Regarding the comments on him being VA, I can see that given the writing style of the player. I can believe that. If that is VA and if the meta where he gives a few fucks and has an agenda (as JAT said in Not Themed) is true) it could explain where he thought the veteran responsible for the potential N1 targets was MZ. Maybe the whole Breshke/Obi/KSC post thing where he asked people and a lot of us had them as town. And then later he scumreads KSC for falling off. Regarding Scott - yeah I didn't just look at Damdred's filter - after Trfel's last comment on him, I checked the filters of the others he was scumreading last night and I kept running into the same problem there was not the interactions he was claiming. I can definitely get on board with an EBH/Scott lynch. KSC, I don't know. I cannot talk about other games, but all I'll say is that NSM12, he's sparse there too. Take that as you will. And in that case, Vivax might actually not be mafia, he might actually be town. At least given his latest wave of posting. Also for me to double check the metas you all used to further push the MZ vig shot - I'm digging through here and can't find it - what games for MZ did you guys use to come to your conclusion? I'm trying to cross check the whole Ras TMI theory. | ||
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On July 13 2015 20:11 marvellosity wrote: maybe a little more than you'd think? i get the (and i think have made it as well in thread, if not i thought i) not giving fucks = town argument, Wave does things as mafia argument. but i also think wave has *some* will to win, *some* desire to solve the game as town. i'm finding it all harder to believe as the game goes on. Last engagement I had with Wave was him trying to figure out the scum amongst those who wanted him dead. I ran a few names by him - Vivax, BF, ruXxar (I think), Clarity, obv he didn't know the new people. Then he tried to get a read on me. And that was pretty much it. I know he says his scumhunting is that bad but is it really that bad? Even then I think EBH/Scott is the way to go over him. Why not consider them? Either of them? | ||
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On July 13 2015 20:10 Breshke wrote: Does anyone want to run me through why they think bf is town/mafia. I believe thread sentiment is town at the moment for him? Tried reading his filter and early he seems to be kinda of all over the place with his scumreads which scott pointed out at the time which gives me weird feelings about scott. I also dislike his meta case on KSC because its based off of one game. I also dislike when he quotes peoples useless one liners as a reason to scumread because it feels like a weak thing to push on. I would have him lean scum if anything That's the thing though, the first 2 games BF as town he actually IS all over the place with relatively longish periods of afk. From what I can tell esp from my exp in Not Themed is that he's not a great scumhunter and I'm getting the same impression here. Some of his posts are repetitive but it may partially have to do with the fact that everytime he's in thread he's catching up at least 40+ pages. If he's scum, it's not necessarily for that based on what I know of his gameplay. Also if you skim this filter from NSM10....that's BF's filter as scum. He's 1) more tryhard (tone but yeh) 2) more aggressive (presumably with perfect information so his agenda is set) and 3) tries to make himself look more townie by putting in more effort to substantiate pushes against townies who are playing more suboptimally. That's the impression I got. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/485267-newbie-student-mafia-x?user=boxerfred As for Scott pointing out BF are you saying Scott potentially has TMI or Scott might be picking off what he might perceive an easy lynch? | ||
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On July 13 2015 21:07 marvellosity wrote: because i like EBH's posts more than I like Wave's. scott - maybe Can you tell me specifically which post(s) you feel are town? Because honestly all game I'm seeing the comments having the ability to come from either alignment. | ||
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Even ignoring the scum meta, right now Breshke, it's only a slight townread on BF, which is why I said "if he's scum" because I could be wrong on him. | ||
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Wave/Scott/EBH have been thrown around for a while, right... Most veterans find Breshke easy enough to read tbh, the general sentiment amongst most that knew him was town. You might want to try and look at his filter. Or did you read it and were you not impressed? | ||
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On July 13 2015 21:16 marvellosity wrote: not beyond what i've already said about him, no. it's not a strong read. Alright, fair. | ||
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On July 13 2015 23:19 marvellosity wrote: feels like rsoultin dying would tell us a lot, overall. hf too I'm going to go as far to say that whoever is armed should shoot into one of these two. And I will also admit that on my vig shot, I came very close to defying town and shooting Holyflare, I was at the point that I was willing to get myself policy lynched for it too until I saw Harkon's tactical post (and subsequently LS's understandable threat). | ||
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On July 14 2015 00:30 Holyflare wrote: Well it helps to stop ignoring the situation if you want to make a decision (yes I'm aware jat actually did yesterday) but just going throught HtS' thought process i can't make any sense of her read on me. She said i misrepresented trfel day 1 which i do as mafia but then never explains how i misrepresented him at all and then ignored my actual legit trfel case for the same reason which didn't make any sense and then she flat out ignored me when I was actually asking legitimate questions about her play. She cited the reason that if i was mafia I'd shit up the thread with it but completely ignores the situation where I'm town clammering for an answer and doing anything to get it. She even knows i play aggressively as town so what help does shutting me out do other than annoy me quite visibly? Then her read has never ever changed since. At all. No sense at all. I scumread you for everything up to underlined part resulting from d1/n1. I received the gun d2. My read on you remained unchanged through most of d2. However, going into n2, I know you posted a load of other things and given the controversy on MZ I knew (yes, you were on the shortlist I mentioned before) I needed to go back and re-evaluate you because the ramifications of an incorrect shot were losing the ground we gained from the Damdred lynch. I did list you as a scumread n2 but you are correct here - it was outdated in the sense I never got to fully re-evaluate because it was Saturday night and RL took precedence. I made a to-do where I wanted to sit down and do that, spend 60-90m reading your massive filter and piece together whether I was still on track especially with rest of town screaming for MZ's head, but I only got about halfway when I had to stop playing. And part the reason I wanted to re-evaluate you was because I also recalled how you played (3p but still, not mafia) in Aperture, I played very suboptimally so I had to consider the possibility that this could be like what you're doing now. I submitted your name to the mods 10m after the Damdred lynch and noted myself to change that to MZ if I couldn't get around to reviewing you, whilst also taking note of what was currently happening in the thread with milo/MZ and trying to look at others. As I saw Harkon's post, I changed it to MZ. It would have been negligent at best for me to keep the shot on you without fully piecing everything you'd done together to be absolutely sure. TLDR - End of night 2, was my read incomplete? Yes. That's my own damn fault. Did I shoot you? Aside from Harkon, that's exactly why I didn't. And now seeing as how you are progressing and some of the more recent arguments being made I am a bit relieved I changed my target, otherwise the whole MZ thing/d1 wagons issues might very well still be hanging in everyone's faces. You don't have to believe me but that was my plan. Take it as you will. | ||
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On July 14 2015 06:04 Holyflare wrote: If trfel flips mafia maybe you guys will believe the rsoul read, yay! This might actually be a valid point considering Ras did allude to an out-of-game situation earlier regarding Trfel. Covering for him. I don't know. On mobile otherwise I'd find the quote, but I KNOW she mentioned something about him not being interested in the game in general. And yes, I recall Trfel saying Monday he'd play. Today is Monday. | ||
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On July 14 2015 06:21 marvellosity wrote: i have a bad feeling about this xD 2 roleblockers tho :/ Milo said he was roleblocked. Ritoky told us immediately who he checked when he was RBed, but I don't believe milo ever did for his n2 check. It might be minor but that was another difference I noticed between rit and milo. Not sure if it was just because if he faked his check, he couldn't deal with whatever questioning to follow (ie "why did you check x" and then would it check with his reads, etc, newbie scum could have hard time faking that IDK) | ||
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On July 12 2015 08:23 milo109 wrote: Roleblocked. Have fun the nine town who are left tommorow. You're not in a good spot. Yeh I was right. Had to re-skim the filter.... | ||
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Nothing against Harkon, or anyone here, just telling it like it is. | ||
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On July 14 2015 06:49 Holyflare wrote: Nah he is mafia though I thought you were being sarcastic when you first posted and people first started questioning you. But why are you saying this still? You are serious? He's questioned you every step of the way. Is that why? If not, then what? | ||
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On July 14 2015 06:52 LightningStrike wrote: Reason: I think HF have a good chance of flipping scum honestly speaking. If HF is scum I will be very angry at geript post-game and I will never forgive myself for wimping out and changing my shot. :/ | ||
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WIFOM I know but I doubt he's scum. | ||
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On July 14 2015 06:55 LightningStrike wrote: Honestly MZ woulda been mislynched eventually we just saved ourselves time on that. You have a point. If I shot Holyflare and if he flipped town, it would have been me on the chopping block tonight instead so, in any case another mislynch. | ||
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Honestly where do we go from here? | ||
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And Trfel I'm going to be blunt here if you want to accuse Holyflare of misrepresenting the entire game you better be able to post on the entire game (and not just the beginning). If you're town, show us those dazzling cases you are capable of, and illustrate points from after N1. Gah, I'm just really pissy at the moment so might be a good time to bow out. | ||
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On July 14 2015 23:21 rsoultin wrote: Choice of name - he prides himself in finding and killing blues as mafia Plans to smurf - he mentioned it in obs in carnaval that he can't do much cause meta says he's lazy Overemphasis on nks as a way to find mafia <- the one thing i've seen in every one of his games General syntax but i'd have to pull examples lol Writing style was the giveaway for me. Using that meta, agenda could be traced in one of his posts where he talked about fear reading palmar and tracing that to MZ but why did he selectively exclude others that would have known palmar? (Marvellosity, HF....or even discounting Damdred, as HF called him out on) This doesn't make marv/hf/etc mafia but why he just pinged mz alone as a palmar fear read when others were in that bunch. Would Clarity qualify as potentially needing to fear read Palmar (since his name was brought up?) I'm still townreading him btw, but this is my first game ever with him. | ||
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I am curious to hear why HF feels otherwise - some comment back he said "there's one scum in ows/obi". Also disappointed in the KSC modkill, but everyone's been warned :/ | ||
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On July 14 2015 22:58 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm warming up to a scott lynch. 100%, and IMO would otherwise agree with Marv on the DMA with him. On Trfel, that was the stuff I know he's capable of.....assuming he's not pulling off another NSM11 performance. I am willing to believe Trfel's RL issues, but still may check the case since I'm a little paranoid right now. | ||
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IMO I would otherwise agree with Marv on the DMA with him. On Trfel.........assuming he's not pulling off another NSM11 performance. Etc. I type stuff out as if I was physically talking to you....I really need to stop doing that. >_< | ||
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Alright, someone just give me the fail hat for the day... :/ | ||
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On July 14 2015 23:56 LightningStrike wrote: Honestly a scott shot wont really tell us much I think. Associations yeah I get you. I'm talking likeliness of being scum, but I understand what you mean. | ||
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HF/Ras/Ruxxar - for information you'd have to shoot into that bunch unless somehow you can ferret whose most likely scum in that bunch and shoot that person. That's pretty obvious. Which might mean checking Trfel's case anyways in spite of DMA if we are to consider shooting Ruxxar. I mean Trfel is probably town because of DMA, but his reads COULD be off....though when he's town, he IS usually right. But as NSM7 proved...though he was active in that game, not always right. But this next shot is pretty critical regardless because right now, town are pretty all over the place so I think this is valid point of discussion. | ||
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On July 15 2015 00:03 ruXxar wrote: what is DMA? Dick move analysis - marv explained it to me D1. On July 08 2015 01:40 marvellosity wrote: when someone says something so dickish, you don't think they'd say it as a ruse as mafia because it would make them a total cock, you think they have to genuinely believe it. | ||
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On July 14 2015 22:58 Harkon wrote: 1) Marvellosity (filter) - p likely town 2) Scott31337 (filter) - maybe scum? 3) WaveofShadow (filter) - bad 4) Clarity_nl (filter) - i think town or playing a really good scumgame 5) ruXxar (filter) - i thought town? Trfel made me doubt 6) Vivax (filter) - no idea 10) boxerfred (filter) - I think town? 12) Trfel (filter) - dick move town? 13) LightningStrike (filter) - town 15) ObiWanShinobi (filter) - no idea 18) Breshke (filter) - no idea 19) Oatsmaster (filter) - long filter, townish? 21) rsoultin (filter) - ? 22) Half The Sky (filter) - townish 23) Harkon (filter) - town 24) Holyflare (filter) - ? 25) XEliteBlueHunter69X (filter) - no idea Where I stand.... 1) Marvellosity (filter) - town 2) Scott31337 (filter) - probably mafia 3) WaveofShadow (filter) - town solely on meta, but that meta could be broken. Would leave alone due to potential mod action. 4) Clarity_nl (filter) - town - not ever played with him, ignoring meta he's town 5) ruXxar (filter) - didn't like him at the beginning (back and forth with Ras), and then thought he was slightly better last cycle 6) Vivax (filter) - went from slight scumlean to slight townlean 10) boxerfred (filter) - very light townread 12) Trfel (filter) - would buy into DMA - town 13) LightningStrike (filter) - town, confirmed 15) ObiWanShinobi (filter) - town, but have been wrong on him before (Aperture, JOAT) 18) Breshke (filter) - town 19) Oatsmaster (filter) - town based on his interactions/putting self out there 21) rsoultin (filter) - was pretty sure she was town 22) Half The Sky (filter) - townish 23) Harkon (filter) - town 24) Holyflare (filter) - thought scum through most of d2/n2, not sure either way now 25) XEliteBlueHunter69X (filter) - null to scumlean If I'm wrong on people I think I could be wrong on the following people: WoS (easily broken meta) Clarity (unfamiliarity if he is playing his scum game but someone else needs to flip before we cross this bridge I think) ruXxar (duh) Vivax (still adjusting to his new meta after bombing him in assassination, not sure why he wasn't analysing scummy behavior by the DT claims, which led to a reasonable rationale to doubt them, although I think he said otherwise for milo? I cannot remember), boxerfred (easily broken meta but what he IS questioning seems reasonable I think?) OWS (poor track record of reading him) and Ras/HF are pretty obvious. Harkon, why is Breshke a tossup for you? | ||
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On July 15 2015 00:09 Holyflare wrote: I have a wild theory that only nk's can clarify. Also damdred did not carry kp so someone not talked about as being mafia is likely mafia (from day 1). I can definitely agree with this. I said ows/oats because it was lazy poe but obi actually being serious is so out of character that he's probably mafia. Oats is probably town for not nking or rbing geript after the whole tmi shit and that whole argument was towny anyway for thinkint along those lines. You said lazy POE but OWS is apparently hard to meta. Honest question Holyflare - How confident are you in a read where OWS has only rolled mafia 3 games (per database - Hajime is not accurate, he was town in that game) and the last game before Aperture it was at least a year ago. But let's say your read is holding true. Couple things here - if EBH is VA, it could point to him also being scum - apparently he prides himself on being the know all on people's metas or however he phrased it in Himalayas....and he and OWS were scum in Aperture. It's a stretch, but.... This all said, I'll check Aperture 4, I don't remember OWS that well in that game. Per database, database is wrong on Hajime - he was town, and the only other two scum games are too far long ago, not sure if that could be reliable. On July 15 2015 00:09 Holyflare wrote: Scott is mafia because when i did some shitty martyring he didn't conclude i was mafia even after i did the exact same thing to get out of a lynch as mafia last game and he was my shadow so knows. Also some of trfel's points if you twist them enough are good cases for scott being mafia. He's also posting in newbie game and not here and all his posts seem to be reactionary omgus' lately. So so far it's probably scott/ebh/obi/+x (rsoul, kelsier, bf most likely). Well KSC will flip soon, so we'll see... As for the shadow argument, that's not a strong point only because I hosted Himalayas and there wasn't a whole lot going on in your shadow qt. Yeh he could have just perched and done nothing, who knows. If he was interacting more your point there would be stronger. Trfel's case on Scott is actually decent though. Although I can't really talk about NSM12 I am in that game too but I will just say that if you just have a look his posting in NSM12 it's not hard to tell that his involvement in that game would really tell anything either way. My scumread on Scott largely comes from an interaction I had with him last cycle, he talks about interactions with Damdred and I crosschecked multiple people he cited even after checking Damdred's filter and it didn't add up. | ||
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On July 15 2015 00:32 Half the Sky wrote: You said lazy POE but OWS is apparently hard to meta. Honest question Holyflare - How confident are you in a read where OWS has only rolled mafia 3 games (per database - Hajime is not accurate, he was town in that game) and the last game before Aperture it was at least a year ago. Actually I should probably ask this question not just of Holyflare but anyone else (Oats I see now) who is scumreading OWS. I'm not necessarily defending him nor do I think reads on him make anyone scum, but this is a question you should ask yourselves before you lynch him. | ||
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On July 15 2015 00:34 Oatsmaster wrote: Well HTS, scott said most suspicious interactions, so if they dont mention the dude being lynched, thats pretty damn suspicious. In any case, if you asked me between OWS and Scott whom to lynch, I'd say Scott, no contest. | ||
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On July 15 2015 00:38 Oatsmaster wrote: Why exactly was scotts analysis of peoples interactions with damdred scummy? Can you quote the relevant posts from scotts filter? Start from the second to last post on the bottom of page 284 and then continue to about midway page 285 where Boxerfred quits the thread. You will see where OWS says "shut up Scott" and even after Trfel qualifies my accusation I go back and check the filters of the other people he's mentioning and it's just flat out rubbish that he'd say that. | ||
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On July 12 2015 14:16 scott31337 wrote: This is a pretty bad idea - I just was filter diving on who talked about/with Damdred - You, Boxer, Trfel and Milo looked the worst, and Breshke, HalfTheSky and Vivax look much more interactive with him. What do you think of Boxerfred? For everyone else this is the quote in question. Bottom of page 284. | ||
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On July 15 2015 00:45 Holyflare wrote: Finallyyyy get to go home! Shut up....I have to work until 2200. Someone please (vig) shoot me... | ||
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On July 15 2015 00:37 Oatsmaster wrote: OWS has posted a decent amount, but he has been totally missing. Like really, can you remember one post by him? One scumread by him? Cause I cant. And that really falls into scum staying low. Posts a decent amount, but none of that is really useful/controversial or even memorable. I'll see if it's possible for me to look at his filter realistically in another angle.... | ||
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On July 15 2015 00:45 Holyflare wrote: Finallyyyy get to go home! Also still am curious - when you can - as to how you are seemingly quite confident in that OWS read (seemingly a tone read) based on his history from the database. | ||
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On July 12 2015 14:16 scott31337 wrote: This is a pretty bad idea - I just was filter diving on who talked about/with Damdred - You, Boxer, Trfel and Milo looked the worst, and Breshke, HalfTheSky and Vivax look much more interactive with him. What do you think of Boxerfred? Let me clarify. At Oats - basically he's saying that based on interactions with Damdred, 4 people looked really bad. I checked Damdred's filter first, then Trfel qualified it by saying the conclusion was based off HIS filter. So I went back and checked BF and OWS's filter and there were hardly any interactions between them and Damdred, and Damdred himself I think mentioned BF once in a question in passing) and OWS there was jack all. I hardly interacted with Damdred D1, I know I townread him until the reservations on his pushes came up. The point is, and especially now that Trfel is looking better and that milo is flipped town, this adds some weight to the fact that 1) Scott is taking things out of context here 2) his claims at least on 3 of the 4 people are definitiely not true, and he's saying I'm more interactive with him and without even checking Breshke and Vivax's filters, I KNOW that's wrong at least on me. Basically what I'm saying is, those reads and much of that statement is contrived. And I dropped the argument because he was wrong on the other two, I felt there was nothing to debate and it was 7am my time Sunday morning (and I was up all night Saturday night). | ||
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Also 3) considering the people he's listed, and he's not giving in depth reads at all you also have the argument given that none of Trfel/BF/Milo had murky/null or worse standings with town, those are really easy people to push. | ||
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On July 15 2015 01:10 Clarity_nl wrote: I'd be shocked if kelsier flips red Same. Marv, I know you were getting paranoid of him at one point but this is your moment of truth... | ||
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Ok, so I'm thinking that kelsier is going to be a very interesting flip if he's mafia. Once we have 2 mafia flipped we can start analyizing inter-mafia behavior and try to glean some information from how they interact(or don't!) with each other. Until then it's sort of hard to draw any associative patterns between people. Why are you so sure KSC was mafia? | ||
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On July 15 2015 01:09 ruXxar wrote: Ok, so I'm thinking that kelsier is going to be a very interesting flip if he's mafia. Once we have 2 mafia flipped we can start analyizing inter-mafia behavior and try to glean some information from how they interact(or don't!) with each other. Until then it's sort of hard to draw any associative patterns between people. Why are you so sure KSC was mafia? | ||
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On July 15 2015 01:14 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Stop calling me mafia guys. Like really. I'm not. Apparently Oats and HF think you are... | ||
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But how does he think LS is null when KP's verified that there is a gunsmith? He'd have to believe that LS and I are on a scumteam together for one thing and that the real gunsmith didn't claim....I mean, someone grab the tinfoil hat please.... | ||
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On July 15 2015 01:17 Oatsmaster wrote: Can I just clarify this? You are saying that you townread damdred, until people started questioning his lynch? Or until people started questioning the people damdred pushed. Cause he wasnt lynched off his pushes. He was lynched cause he got tracked. My thought process was this - this was prior to the track claim Early in the game we were talking about WoS. I told Marv that the ONLY reason I was TRing WoS was meta based on the fact that town WoS does little and plays a poor town game and that scum WoS based on his play in NSM11 was more active, more dickish, etc. I crosschecked that meta in thread and OWS and Marv - both of whom were townreading at that time - said that the meta was true. And if that held true, then that geript and KSC had reason or were onto Damdred not being as town and that's around the time I started doubting Damdred. TLDR - the latter. | ||
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On July 15 2015 01:20 Clarity_nl wrote: As much as I want to kill him scum for that horrendous list, I think it's more likely bad town. Like how does scum post that list? I had a townread on him prior to the list so... guess I'll stick to it. List is terrible tho. Normally I hate the too scum to be scum argument but then I also just realized with BF is that he is at least 30-40 pages behind every time he's in so it's very possible he could have missed the LS claim. But if he's examined it, it's just pretty out there.....ehhhhh and then again his scumhunting in general is pretty bad. You're probably right. | ||
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On July 15 2015 01:30 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I already stated that I won't lynch ruxx because of the whole "lack of paranoia" thing. I really don't think Wave is mafia because I can't see him being this apathetic but he probably needs to be shot/lynched anyway if he isn't going to play. Who else? Vivax, Breshke and Boxerfred are also names being thrown around. | ||
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On July 15 2015 01:34 ruXxar wrote: Not sure at all. It wouldn't surprise me though. Like I've mentioned earlier he's acted really weird after D1, and his filter after D1 is really awful imo. Alright you did say "if he's mafia" but second sentence initially led me to believe you are expecting KSC to flip as mafia. But given how you've been posting some obvious statements through this game I'm probably wrong and you're doing the same here too. | ||
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Furthermore, I read through OWS's Aperture 4 filter, and there was plenty of sarcasm, lols, etc in that filter. If HF meant serious as opposed to easygoing, then I'd say the first half of that filter there are definitely posts where he's more serious than others, I mean he has to act like he's finding scum but he's definitely not uptight and there are posts where he seems relaxed and doesn't appear to give too many cares, so if he's getting that from Aperture 4 I'm going to have to disagree with him. I would recommend reading the Aperture 4 filter and then coming to a judgement if you really are tentative on scum OWS. If you're getting that from filters in his earlier games, then.....I'd argue it's not reliable cause it was quite long time ago, unless you play with OWS off site or have some other information I'm not aware of. | ||
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I mean, like I said irregardless of Holyflare's alignment I would not shoot into OWS. Oats saying that OWS is not memorable however is a different argument that can be investigated separately. | ||
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Definitely not complaining about the modkill lmao! GGs all of you. | ||
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On July 06 2015 10:05 KelsierSC wrote: so i feel i should give where i'm at my early read was i like damdred but i have felt underwhelemed by how he townread rsoul, that felt pretty weak to me when you compare the other two games i've started to like clairty based on how he read wave, clarity HAS LOOKED SCUMMY so for wave to read him as town seems weird to me. geript has shown some buck and been engaged so he feels town i like his response i have feelings and like my dick is sort of quivvering either way but im not going toi be like yo, fuck you on other people but that is how i feel On July 06 2015 12:08 KelsierSC wrote: im too drunk to play this but last game damdred and rsoul read eachother as town, and they both had ls as town early this game damdred has rs as town but ls as mafia but he has rs as town so something fucked up is happening there i like geript and i like clarity, i also like breshke but i dont really know how real this read is and i dont like Wos as a result of liking clarity, sheeping the fuck outside of that im fucked to fuck On July 07 2015 00:24 KelsierSC wrote: Here are my initial reads Clarity - The initial posts weren't great but perhaps he was just excited to play, I really liked his scum read on WoS, he had pressure on him but he scumread the one guy sort of townreading him out of nowhere that felt really good. since then his posting has been solid, comments about trefl and bf seem alright. Breshke - I have my own sort of meta read on breshke, then I think his point about LS , damdreds read and his responses to hf are all good, hf - he's come right out the gate with pressure on trefl and gotten into a few scraps already. I also like the mindmeld that he and breshke had when they called rsoul out , the "voting early doesnt mean shit" posts geript - early tone read felt fiesty, felt town. oats - I liked the xp read on rsoul initially, been up in people's face wave - I think calling clarity town at the time he did was strange and it was like he was purposefully trying to go against thread sentiment. Clarity has retracted the scum read but I'm not a fan ritoky - he seems less jokey and less engaged than he was at the start of himalayas. I was asking marv about the 3 name post and although he has not seen it as scum, it is different from his town and felt out of place. trefl - I like hf's case I like the comments clarity made. sheep case completely weird love triangle ok so here is this fucked up triangle rsoul,damdred and LS now rsoul and damdred can typically read eachother quickly and in this game they quickly read eachother as town. and rsoul to me that looks like someone talking to a town read. anyway damdred has LS as mafia early on. develops this around laziness and the flip-flop on scott. now I remember initially I liked this read, it felt good but wine induced me felt unsure of it later on especially when LS responded about how you catch scott later on, so if rsoul and damdred are both town and they read eachother correctly maybe rsoul is just wrong on LS and damdred is right. damdred certainly sounded the most confident. but if LS is town, and i'm really undecided on this. then why is damdred wrong but rsoul right, especially at the time those reads were given rsoul had no business calling LS town. I think one of those 3 is mafia because it just doesn't click right now. Independently of this I haven't really liked rsoul but I have nothing new to add to points raised by hf/marv/oats So Damdred and KSC did quite a bit of double bussing (!!!) D1. Both pushed on Wave but the pushes went nowhere, not sure if that could/would/should be alignment indicative either way considering WoS has not done much this game. Bottom of page 4 of his filter - you have a soft push on BF. Interesting. Given BF's play this game though I'm not sure that's alignment indicative. On July 08 2015 00:30 KelsierSC wrote: Here's my list right now Town hf breshke clarity oats geript harkon LS scum trfel ritoky damdred bluehunter milo wave Everyone else I have leans on but this is my head right now. In between those sets of reads you have a few soft pushes on EBH and Trfel. He's scumreading ritoky and LS the whole time but obv now we know what those latter two are. Day 2 reads - On July 14 2015 09:19 KelsierSC wrote: Hf and boxer feel like town to me i wouldnt lynch them i'd look at scott, trefl and WoS tomorrow or a vigi shot On July 14 2015 09:37 KelsierSC wrote: hf is a tone read to me, i can't fully explain it but i see hf posting about fucking everything in teh game and it feels like town. yeh he can spam as scum. but he feels like town. plus he mindmelded with marv, who is also town. and it reminded me of some other faggot game where the two of them melded to form a titanical robot of doom until marv replaces with some noob ass bitch called koshi. bf is the same kind of thing, he is around the game and i like what I see. I think his hf fight is just because their aren't many people who give a fuck about the game so when two people who actually care get involved they sort of gith eachother. scott, it's a "saved" post I made plus a lot of one liners where he tries to get people to fight with eachother. WoS, like that is just a D1 read, his read on "clarity is town " when he has no beez in teh trap business calling clarity town. since then, has he done shit, no, like even i have said more and i hasvent given a fuck for 2 days. I honestly need to read trefl again. this is from the early game and i ahvent seen anything that made me change my read so i need to double check that and see. but i'd go for scott or wave over him Might be WIFOM here but based on Damdred and KSC filters Wave is probably town. Really not a whole lot of additional information since we already know where Damdred and LS stand, and Trfel and BF reads seem to be a little more definitive than before... Gah was hoping for more, but go friggin figure... | ||
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On July 15 2015 07:44 LightningStrike wrote: Also don't you guys find it odd that I wasn't NK'd and yet Marv did? Actually, not at all. He has more influence than you and truth be told, he's a better player and a bigger threat. You are confirmed but the bigger threats have to go and you have no more guns left anyhow. | ||
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On July 15 2015 07:57 LightningStrike wrote: This post screams TMI about KSC because he didn't really say much about KSC prior to that post. HF post here is weird too but I thought he was Mafia prior to that post. I thought HF was trolling, IDK. But yeh I asked about that post to ruXxar earlier....and now that's he's flipped I do wonder if that may have been a scumslip although he did say it was two separate statements. The word "once" really has me on edge but this is also a non-native speaker we're dealing with. If vs once. One is conditional, the latter definitive. | ||
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On July 16 2015 00:05 ruXxar wrote: Here's vivax progression in reads on Trfel in chronological order: Response to holyflare's case on Trfel: Then says he doesn't want to lynch trfel because trfel posted some useless content. Then he goes on to berate HF's push on trfel. Then he suddenly decides that trfel can die anyway. Then asked who he want to lynch he says his top scum after geript is trfel.. Now he suddenly thinks Trfel should "possibly" be lynched. Then he's irritated that HF dropped his suspicions of trfel: Then he wants to lynch trfel again: Then he's like nope: He seems pretty erratic with regards to his stance on trfel. It's like he's trying to create a narrative of having a dynamic change in stance on trfel but it's so inconsistent I find it hard to believe that it's genuine. Are you taking into account the context as to why each of these steps are happening? You're not looking at Trfel's activity relative to these reads and Vivax retracted because of the amount of content not the quality of content. Then you're saying he can "suddenly" decide that Trfel can die? Look at the timestamps, that's a day or so later. I mean is he changing his stance a lot? Yes. Are there reasons for his changes in stance? Nearly every time, yes, namely Trfel's activity, for one thing (I mean just look at the gaps in the timestamps, it's apparent it's long enough and reasonable to keep reconsidering Trfel's status in the game the longer his inactivity goes on from a town standpoint and he wasn't the only one anyhow. Marv even voiced reservation and so did Harkon.) Nowhere, do you consider why. If you want to criticise those reasons that's another thing, but overall this case and the next paragraph you have on Vivax are pretty poor, even the geript thing, I can see a town Vivax trying to meta read geript and fail to get that across. I scumread him initially for that push on geript but now that re-evaluated in the context of all his gameplay it doesn't seem so bad. And not saying you're wrong on geript, doesn't mean anything, that's NAI, most veterans are intelligent enough to drop a scumlean once a tracker claim is verified. TLDR - your cases are poor, I think you're taking things out of context, and I think you are pushing him for poor reasons. what you are saying does not exclusively make him scum, and in the context of his later game play he's a slight townlean. If you are scum - I want to look into what Breshke said on you on 341 if I ever get the time today - this would be one of the reasons. | ||
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That said, his read is within the realm of possibilities (believable) for his experience with me but it is wrong. His read on me does not make him scum. I do not however, understand why he is scumreading Oats. I think even Vivax asked him that too. I have him as town. | ||
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On July 16 2015 04:50 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: switching my vote to breshke if anyone is up for shenanigans later, he is my new most confident scum read again. I have a town read on Breshke, in fact, I have had most of the game. You said you don't like Breshke you don't think he's trying to solve the game. Where are you getting that from? I read his filter and from his filter he's narrowing down people and providing reads. Particularly the second half. Is he effective at it? That's another question. If you are who I think you are, why aren't you taking his meta into account? Because he acts a certain way as scum and not so much as town in his reads, particularly earlier in the game. | ||
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On July 16 2015 05:47 boxerfred wrote: I have not been pushing you. I have nothing to get a grip on, nothing that would be a good thing for me to push. That makes you town or a good scum player. Remember, it's a scum lean. Not a full blown read. Alright, fair enough, but second question now is why are you scumreading (or leaning) Oats? | ||
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On July 16 2015 05:58 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: In his most recent post he has one scumread, one. I have to simply disagree. i find his meta inconclusive, I read previous games and I don't see a noticeable enough difference to read him as either alignment. If you want to see meta take a look at OWS previous town/scum games where I see a considerable difference and find his game here more in accordance with his scum games. So without a solid meta to work with I simply look at his gameplay objectively, which is scummy to me. I argued this same point with Holyflare - HF argued that OWS was uptight or serious and what have you and I found quite the opposite in Aperture 4. You were (if you are who I think you are) on a scumteam with him in that game so you are in the best position to tell us what we should be looking for if OWS is scum. Ironically I also argued earlier with HF (and HF admitted his read was offhand) that his read couldn't be reliable - on TL, OWS only has one scum game (Aperture 4) that is recent, as Hajime is inaccurate he was not scum that game. So I am quite curious on what basis and what points you are using to scumread OWS. I see you clashed with him early game and you've been scumlisting him since, but what is the big deal? You haven't really discussed OWS in detail since. | ||
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On July 16 2015 06:12 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I'm not moving my vote off of ebh. Ever. I want to see from EBH why OWS's scumread was out of the realm of possibilities for town early game (when OWS clashed with EBH - I am assuming that's why he's been scumreading OWS all game) and where he feels his meta read on OWS is much more convincing. He has a basis to do that, it's just a question of whether he can do it. On July 16 2015 06:13 boxerfred wrote: lol 4 pages only Oo You played with him in both Himalayas and Not Themed. His short filter length is not a scumtell. | ||
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On July 16 2015 06:31 boxerfred wrote: EBH's filter is decent but short as fuck. I actually like it. I'm not voting him today. Another thought that came to my mind: We had 3 NK's this night, all on town: Marvellosity the DLME Investigator has been killed! Scott31337 the DLME Investigator has been killed! Harkon the Lieutenant has been killed! I assume that the Harkon shot came from scum. Pretty much confirmed blue. How many shots can scum pull off with 2 members left? MOD QUESTION: Was Kelsier able to submit a night action? Was that night action executed or was it nullified since he was killed before EoN? Then, I assume that someone who was handed a gun by LightningStrike shot. Most likely, the target was scott because he was scumread quite heavily. The other kill would've been a scum kill on marv then. What is the thought process between killing marv and not LightningStrike? Recognizing him as an experienced player who's capable of finding scum? I'd say HtS and HF could think that way. Since the gun LS handed out was a 1-shot, I think it's safe for him to say who he gave the gun to. Also, I want the gun bearer to tell who he shot and why. That would make it clearer which targets where shot by scum and it would confirm two people as town. Or, LS + the one who claims having received the gun are the last two scum members. That is only possible if there is another blue that is able to shoot in the game. At this point, we have 5 dead blues and 1 more claimed blue, LS. That makes six blues vs. four reds. I lack experience in that game so please tell me, is that a valid and balanced setup that is likely to be used by Blazinghand? Okay, so tl;dr: LS, who received the gun? Confirm one more townie please. Guy with gun, tell us who you shot. Also, is 6 blues vs. 4 reds okay and a "normal" setup? Read the OP. Scum have 2kp until they are reduced to 1 person. One scummer - 1kp. In all circumstances. And LS said several times he had TWO guns. He gave the first one to me n2. I shot MZ n2 but came very close to shooting Holyflare and was willing to get policy lynched for it. Second one LS said right after the daypost, he gave it to Marv and Marv shot Scott. I think BH's setup for having worked together with him on TL LXX (Guardians) is balanced knowing how he scales the limited shot roles. You have five reds, and of those five 1-2 will probably be vanilla scum. | ||
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On July 16 2015 06:44 boxerfred wrote: okay, #tinfoil before I go to bed: What if 3 scum roles with KP are alive and LS is lying about how he gave it to marv? Two scum KP are accounted for - Harkon/marv Third KP is marv on Scott Fourth death is modkill. And I claimed the shot on MZ. In your world, the real gunsmith hasn't claimed or a town LS gunsmith would lie on whom he gave it to. Why would either ever happen? | ||
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On July 16 2015 06:55 Clarity_nl wrote: I would say he's being disruptive but he's not actually interrupting anything. Not intentionally. I'm aware of how suboptimally he plays as town and he AFKs long enough to be quite behind every time he re-enters thread. NAI, it is what it is. | ||
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On July 16 2015 07:29 Holyflare wrote: ITT people complaining about their own policy lynch while qqing that nothing else is happening btw clarity is mafia Why? | ||
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On July 15 2015 04:40 Clarity_nl wrote: Breshke - I've read him as town based on his d1 for most of the game but I cannot recall a single thing he's done or said since then. In looking through his filter he immediately sheeped my post regarding milo and claimed that lynching damdred over milo would be bad even if damdred is RB, seems like a weird kind of logic to take. Scum obviously would love a milo lynch over damdred even if damdred is afterwards. He complains about the HF/milo interaction which I get, but then he calls milo confirmed scum which I do not. He showed no hesitation towards the end of d3 which I think makes him scum as milo started looking really townie near the end. Breshke actually said this? Ugh I need to go to bed, but when was this? | ||
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On July 16 2015 08:04 Holyflare wrote: Obiwan is probably also mafia for my case and the fact that he's super hedged on me despite calling me scum all the time last night and seeing me "clearly misrepresent his meta" and he's only not voting me because there's a wagon on me? That's super bs too. Don't listen to HtS his filters are lies. You're basically telling me not to use the Aperture 4 filter to make a read on him either way? | ||
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On July 16 2015 08:00 Clarity_nl wrote: Basically you gave me an excuse to just lynch you and not spend 2-3 hours reading meta and I'm happy taking it. Kinda the same thing as that I would have been happy if you got shot last night and flipped town. Why would you policy lynch anyone today when another nightfall would reveal more potentally? We don't go to mylo/lylo tomorrow. Trfel and BF are legitimately scumreading HF (and maybe others are too I forget offhand) but the policy voters....come on. 11:3 now 10:3 ML 8:3 NK 7:3 ML 5:3 mylo | ||
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On July 16 2015 08:10 rsoultin wrote: don't say this -_- like seriously, hts, if he really just up and quit the game, he's either scum skating by and thumbing his nose at us for being morons, or town that scum is definitely going to leave alive. a policy lynch on him if he hadn't come back isn't "really poor" at all Hmmmm, alright. I'm just a little upset atm at how this game is going tbh. | ||
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But like I said, where my head is at - ruXxar/EBH, some of the others I also have to re-evaluate. And double check on Breshke and Clarity. And I'm hoping I stumble on something important before next day cycle because I fly to NYC Friday >_< I can still play, but the time will still be more limited. But will be on US East time so I just need to not fuck up EoDs >_< | ||
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Now I'm out for the night. | ||
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On July 16 2015 08:33 rsoultin wrote: on my list of things to do -_- but if hts is right about how small/outdated a pool we have to work with there i don't think it's enough to push ows on, not without a little more certainty. ksc getting modkilled was a windfall lol >< but we're running out of lynches pretty quickly here HF admitted prior when I debated this point with him that his read on OWS is more offhand (paraphrasing). + Show Spoiler [ObiWanShinobi] + [M][T] Cell Mini Mafia II Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 3 [M][T] Cell Mini Mafia II Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 3 [N] [N] TL Order Mafia LXVI Town Jailkeeper Killed Night 5 [N] TL Mafia LXVII: Storm Mafia 2 Mafia Janitor Killed Night 1 [M][N] Noir Mini Mafia: Chapter 2 Town Vanilla Killed Night 2 [T] Showdown Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 3 [M][N] World Heavyweight Championship mafia III Town Vanilla Lynched Day 4 [M][T] Mission Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 2 [N] TL Mafia LXVIII: Fanfic Crossover Edition Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 3 [M][N] 2p2 Vanilla Werewolf 13er Mafia Vanilla Survived Day 4 [M][N] Fantasy Football (FFL) Mini Town Detective Killed Night 3 [T] Hearthstone Mafia Town Malfurion Stormrage Lynched Day 2 [M][N] Campus Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 6 [N] TL Mafia LXIX: Carol Of The Bells Town Vigilante Killed Night 2 [M][N] New Years Eve Party Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 2 [M][T] PYP: Pick Your Protoss Mini Mafia Town Colossus Survived Day 2 [M][N] Slytherin Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Survived Day 3 [T] Jack of All Trades Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 2 [T] Aperture Mafia 4: This Time it's Personal Mafia Knight Artorias Survived Night 4 [M][N] Mafia Mini Mafia2: another miniature game of mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 4 [M][N] Newbie Student Mafia VIII Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 3 [T] Hajime no Ippo Maifa Mafia Yagi Haruhiko Lynched Day 5 [N] Assassination Mafia! Town Vanilla Survived Day 3 [M][N] Generic Boring Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Endgamed Night 3 .....and I counted....only 2 MLs left. :/ I agree....we got very lucky with KSC. He would have never gotten lynched. Third time's a charm....now I really need to sleep. And if I come back, someone should just dayvig me >_< | ||
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So we're not lynching ruXxar or EBH? I'll read the cases on OWS. Aside from Trfels cases are there any other competing cases on Holyflare? | ||
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The other issue is that I looked at Ras' list on HF and it makes me waver towards him being scum. like all his pushes were opportunistic and its not hard to look towny when others are playing badly. I really didn't like the drops early game and martyring whilst unusual as HF he can do it as either alignment. Putting my vote on ruXxar for now but once I get to a computer I can review a few more things in detail. I really think Breshke is town, Oats town, I'm down to WoS and EBH with the possibility I'm wrong elsewhere. | ||
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On July 17 2015 00:39 ruXxar wrote: So why are you still voting for HF?! You even said that you liked his his contributions and you had a town read on him up until now. Why flip flop when you've been so certain all along? All I see is you saying you want to vote HF out of spite. Do you see how this might not necessarily be alignment indicative? I can see it possible if he's scum but it's Holyflare... | ||
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On July 17 2015 01:04 Breshke wrote: Could wos really be scum HTS? Like i get the modkill could make him not post like at all but even before that it was like meh. Why did noone push wos for mafiarollingitis wasnt he mafia with trfel in that game? Or is it because meta says he can play like this? Meta. If I didn't know any better I would be scumreading him but if HF rolls scum this might be an issue considering trfel was pushed heavily. Both KSC and Damdred's pushed WOS hard for being useless though or maybe KSC for something else on top of that but based on that and meta I'm making the assumption he's town. At this point though, his extended absence has been NAI as Oats pointed out. | ||
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11:3 NL 9:3 NK 8:3 ML 6:3 NK 5:3 ML ....we don't...er unless I got something wrong there.... | ||
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I totally want ruXxar to die as well but of course that's not going to happen. Well not today anyways. I should have shot you n2 and just gone with my gut :/ | ||
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On July 17 2015 02:14 Holyflare wrote: QUOTE IT LOL. Where is the misrepresentation. WHERE WHERE. How can you say it's a misrep when rsoultin herself the person being the antagonistic ass hole AGREED with the trfel case? HOW? Where did I misrep you in the slightest? Where does that exist? How do you know that is the case if you ignored all of my posts and only ever answered one right at deadline? Is that my fault you played like shit and ignored a town player and perpetuated my read when you know that i get tunneled on people? You keep mentioning aperture and forgetting all about it. Pathetic. I mentioned Aperture in defence of OWS, not the other way around. | ||
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On July 17 2015 07:06 boxerfred wrote: HtS. Rsoultin. Clarity. That's it. Maybe even OWS somehow I'm not sure about Rsoulting but hey, sheeping HF it is. I honestly wish I would have just shot HF n2 and taken the policy lynch d3. :/ I think two of the scummers are on the HF wagon and one tried to disassociate from it. | ||
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No voting and bringing HF into lylo we would have lost, this would have been on repeat. As for me, I could be so far off track this game and it wouldn't surprise me because after the autopilot phase of this game nothing has made any sense. It would not surprise me if ruXxar was the one that disassociated... WoS just jumping in and voting Holyflare though....I know I've said I think he's town, but clearly being out of touch with the thread and then not realising WHY HF was still alive d4...that sorta jumped out at me but does that make him scum.... Also what if both HF and Ras are town given how long they've been going on about each other? Bah I'm rambling, but I need to take a hard look at the Clarity read, will try either late tonight or before I fly to NYC but otherwise flying to the US will remove me for most of the night phase. :/ | ||
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On July 17 2015 07:18 boxerfred wrote: I have no idea. But I feel like all scum players are on HF. The wagon basically never stopped, the votes on others feel more like townie votes. Doubt it, it's not that simple. There were too many willing to lynch him and the HF wagon has had more than the required minimum at points and I'm willing to bet one scummer was smart enough to disassociate. I think two are on the main wagon and one on a smaller. | ||
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[QUOTE]On July 17 2015 07:19 boxerfred wrote: [QUOTE]On July 17 2015 07:15 rsoultin wrote: [QUOTE]On July 17 2015 07:12 boxerfred wrote: [QUOTE]On July 17 2015 07:11 rsoultin wrote: the only people with an excuse to be super sure of hf's alignment are like people who don't know what his scumgame looks like? essentially. ruxx doesn't fall in that category[/QUOTE] 1000% | ||
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On July 17 2015 07:21 rsoultin wrote: the only people with an excuse to be super sure of hf's alignment are like people who don't know what his scumgame looks like? essentially. ruxx doesn't fall in that category 1000% | ||
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On July 17 2015 07:26 LightningStrike wrote: Honestly there was like 4-5 votes outside of the HF wagon I think at least 1 is scum in those and at least 2 on the main wagon I will try to put up some work tonight on vote analyses up to this night phase. Agreed. Holyflare (8): LightningStrike, Clarity_nl, WaveofShadow, Trfel, Oatsmaster, rsoultin, ObiWanShinobi, Half the Sky ObiWanShinobi(2): Holyflare, XEliteBlueHunter69X rsoultin(2): ruXxar, boxerfred ruXxar(1) Breshke On the wagon I'd say scum is somewhere in Clarity, WoS, Ras, OWS. Off the wagon, I'd say either EBH or ruXxar, most likely ruXxar. Probably going to be my starting point. | ||
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On July 17 2015 23:00 Half the Sky wrote: VA is probably one of them for wanting to park his vote on Ras. Breshke I highly doubt is Mafia. Never mind. I retract the part about VA. Since he said he didn't care about what happened to him. Missed that. If he's scum its not for that. | ||
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On July 17 2015 23:19 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: how can you say these things with a straight face in the same sentence? breshke LITERALLY just parked his vote on ruxxar all day last cycle and did nothing and that is the basis of your scumread impossible to know who is town or mafia in this game because there are huge gaping logical errors and double standards on every page I read But are you looking into the why? Offhand I believe he had a the on HF and that would fall in line with not wanting to autolynch HF or vote him and find another lynch instead. He's has been scumreadinv ruXxar for awhile. And I know he is not a player that has a lot of thread pull. | ||
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damn mobile | ||
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GGs Vivax and LS. I'm still inclined to vote ruXxar but I should have an hour or so I can put towards this game tomorrow so I can re-evaluate as needed. | ||
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Tomorrow morning (us time) I will get my rear to a cafe and re-evaluate. I have been spending most of my time with family so to spend hard time on this game has been impossible. I've skimmed and I am still wavering on Ras, partially on how in her scum games she's "pretended" to be invested (reference Carnaval/nsm7) and between the cases and what I see here I feel this might be town on town. If she's scum she's putting a shittonne more time than normal. I am with Obi that we might have a lurker scum team so if I honestly read through and read all cases and feel we are all tearing each other apart we might want to vote out a lurker. I realise there's competing cases on Clarity and I fear he might be playing extremely well as scum. I have also taken note of how he was scum reading Breshke, I felt the progression in Breshke filter was logical and his filter lacked the aggression where he pounces on people when he's scum since he has that perfect information. Then again its also not out of the realm of possibilities since Clarity hasn't played in ages I don't remember seeing him around since I started Nov 2014 so that point alone might be unfamiliarity. If Oats is scum we are in serious trouble. He lurked like shit in both games where I have run into him as scum. If he's scum he's broken meta. | ||
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VA I have had the reservation with trouble on getting a read on him all game. Ugh. OWS could be scum but it's highly unlikely. We might have lurker scum but I refuse to vote a lurker before I dive into all the actives... | ||
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This game the number of scum thing he didn't know but I don't recall him acting THAT dumb in nsm10. His read on me is a fear read which is NAI, but complete understandable from a town perspective. You are POEing Trfel regardless of DMA? | ||
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On July 19 2015 10:23 Clarity_nl wrote: Yeah this is my assumption. I think she would not use it as scum unless trfel was also scum and they agreed on it, hence my conclusion. What do you think? I honestly think she could say that as either alignment (the its not my place, etc thing) that's just who she is independently of the game. Unless I misunderstood. | ||
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Let me power through nsm10....stand by. | ||
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She did that with LS as town in Himalayas that's for sure. I guess I'd have to go back and see if there is a sense of discomfort in her dialogue about Trfel. I know there is OGI I believe that but to fake townread that's a very difficult question. I want to say she probably wouldn't? but it's best to check around the filter where she talks about RL stuff with him. If I get the same tone read I did when she discussed LS in Himalayas...she's prob town. | ||
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if ruXxar and Ras are both town that might lead credence to a scum Trfel but I need to read that filter again tomorrow morning. | ||
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Not digging the BF lynch right now, power reading his nsm10 filter though....Ras I don't get the change in position on BF or did you just change your mind? ....or should I just read.... | ||
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you were willing to lynch BF last night and now you say he's a no lynch all game? | ||
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On July 19 2015 23:34 rsoultin wrote: o.0 lol >< you must have misunderstood. truffle is a no lynch all game for me kk then my mistake | ||
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I have no idea why Oats thinks Breshke or myself are scum. I am wary right now of the people wanting to lynch Boxerfred going the easy lynch route. Reading the competing cases.... | ||
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Vivax case on Clarity is too strong I feel associations with the two fallen scum among others seem too great to ignore, reading Holyflare's competing case. Not sure I understand the competing case on Ras from Vivax. Too bad I was in the air when he made that case :/ | ||
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On July 20 2015 00:13 Oatsmaster wrote: Also, there is significant pushback against lynching wave when there really shouldnt be, nobody should have any kind of read on him. My logic is that we lynch WoS if and only if I feel all actives are town. last resort. | ||
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On July 20 2015 00:11 Oatsmaster wrote: This post is terrible. HTS doesnt realise Im calling breshke town. HTS also has a stupid assumption that is based off absolutely nothing. And finally, hts doesnt link the people wanting to lynch BF, aka clarity. So its not a townie mindset post at all. How do you think that people who push bf are scummy but never actually make a connection with your scumreads? Its way too general and typical mafia. if you are calling Breshke town then I retract that part of the sentence. I skimmed so I easily could have misread something. And Oats I already said I am wary of the people against BF. | ||
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On July 20 2015 00:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Who are those people? What exactly do you mean by wary? Why is it scummy in this situation to push someone you think is town? Im sure you think rux is town too, why arent the people on rux scummy? EBH, I had thought Ras wanted to lynch BF until the mini discussion we had on him and I THINK one other person mentioned him but at the very least it's another point against EBH. Oats I say wary because I think scum if any there will go for the easy lynch. | ||
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I think Clarity based on the comp cases/associations could be Mafia, I don't think Trfel is and I need to get through the rest of Ras's filter and HFs case on her. | ||
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I'm moving my shit to the hotel when I check in around 1500...I will be back on mobile at some point and will try to get the rest of my shit together before eod. >_< | ||
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On July 20 2015 00:38 Oatsmaster wrote: if you prefer ebh, why are you waiting till there are 6 hours left and then not doing jack shit to get us to vote for ebh? Oats I am abroad right now and this is the best I can do with the time I have. If you want to lynch me then so be it. | ||
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Shoot. | ||
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On July 20 2015 04:48 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Tell me who to vote. I am uncertain. If I was a dayvig and threatened to shoot you within 30 seconds of making this post whom would you vote for? | ||
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You are not convinced of any of the competing cases? ANY???? | ||
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I am drowning in HFs 45 page filter right now. Fuck my life. | ||
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or can we lynch Clarity? | ||
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Holyflare's case on her is a steaming pile of shit. Clarity or EBH for me. I'm not convinced. | ||
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##vote Clarity | ||
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.......no he's not scum. | ||
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On July 20 2015 06:38 Trfel wrote: Even inactive townies usually show up and post something before the deadline.,even if they didn't read anything at all. If no one shows up and rsoultin flips town, I really wouldn't be surprised if at least one mafia voted for her and pretended to be AFK. 100% | ||
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:/ | ||
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##unvote ##vote EBH | ||
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The cases on Ras are shit and I'm not convinced. | ||
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##unvote ##vote clarity | ||
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On July 20 2015 06:57 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: you're right, the only person I want to lynch is myself so I dont have to play in candyland anymore where girls are immune to lynches and people think their reads are good despite being wrong all game. Enjoy the rest of the game xD wtf | ||
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I honestly want to kill myself. I'm getting mislynched tomorrow. Beyond frustrated right now. | ||
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>_< | ||
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On July 20 2015 07:17 boxerfred wrote: ... hts. Nice of you to show up right after lynch. Bloody brilliant. | ||
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On July 20 2015 07:27 boxerfred wrote: I'm really frustrated. It's not too hard to lynch rsoultin but HtS pulled her out. GJGJGJGJGJGJGJGJGJGJ Just stop it please. I said the cases on her were poor, I was never going to vote her. I was between Clarity and EBH. Stop distorting the facts. | ||
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Of course when I realised no one was going anywhere I saw the post from Breshke and then I tried to swap back. I was not ever going to vote Ras after what I'd done through today. I made that abundantly clear. If Ras is mafia I'm seriously fucking up my reads. If people want to kill me for not lynching Ras that's another issue entirely. But I never thought the cases on her were convincing enough. I read her filter and the competing cases. I wasn't convinced. I'm going to bed. I'm going to do what I can to get us out of this mess. I'm just as mad as myself as most of you are with me. | ||
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As for my mobile situation that isnt a dumbtell that's just (harsh) reality for me. Not sure how that's even one... Are you not seeing my appeals to lynch Clarity? Good grief. And Oats, Trfel (rightfully) demanded an answer from me that I gave. Not sure why you have a problem with that. For someone who wanted Ras or Clarity lynched you showed up at a rather interesting time post eod. | ||
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x is either WoS/ruxxar. Very outside shot (read: tinfoil/fear/paranoia) of Trfel. Things of note to me: Clarity - see previous/Vivax's case. Will lynch. Boxerfred - did not like his re-entry. On meta I felt he was okay. But wanting to vote Clarity and Ras and then showing up at the end? As for me I told you twice that your meta read was wrong. Harkon/Jat meta reads me accurately on the same game (the point being clashing with town leaders) yet when we correct you for context you insist where you stand is correct. What about my current game is scummy? What was scummy before last night? Besides YOUR INTERPRETATION OF META? Could lynch. Maybes ??? WoS - Yes I had a previous weak read based on meta. Everyone talked him bring lucky/useless but I ignored it early on. There was one thing that jumped at me. When the votes on HF were going down he was like "Day 4 he's still alive" not considering all the blue claims going down and how controversial interactions between him/Ras were and it just seemed all too easy way to just throw a vote on him. Even if you to make the argument that oh he's out of touch his reads are shit anyways it really doesn't take much to check who died and take into context. Could lynch after some/or final discussion. Trfel - DMA aside, on the upswing he's re-evaluating people so to me that is town. But in nsm11 he did really turn around things in filters so this part is more paranoia than anything. Considering he was pushing HF and was wrong....eh its worth a double check. Prob town Ras - read her filter. read both cases. read both filters. read cases again. Cases weren't convincing to me. My biggest feel is that unlke Carnaval/nsm7 when she's scum she is way more invested in her reads. I think she's town. EBH - his reaction at EoD where he was happy to go I felt couldn't come from scum. That's why I switched off and tried to go to Clarity. Yes I take responsibility for fucking up and not thinking at 2m before EoD but I maintain that finally after all this time having problems all game getting a read on him he just might actually be town. Oats - no change in this prior read. still town. RuXxar - Interactions with him and Ras felt like town on town when I skimmed last cycle but want to further review from day 1. Vivax had good points on him. I think OWS, Breshke are town. No change there. | ||
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On July 21 2015 14:54 boxerfred wrote: im lazy ever since HF died and noone expect me sheeped his reads ##vote rsoultin ffs HF is wrong on me and I think he's wrong on Ras. Just because someone is town doesn't mean they are correct. Voting Clarity. | ||
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starting the workday, will comment more through lunch etc if I can.... | ||
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Breshke flipped on the day post. And he claimed and claim conditions whilst unusual made sense given his standing in the game (not widely townread, not as influential and not as great a threat as town). You are considering associations between myself and others. But they make zero sense because of what I did at EoD. What other than this fear read makes me Mafia? What prior to EoD day 5 made me Mafia? How are Ras and I on the same team when I failed to hammer EBH? Why is EBH Mafia besides his first post? You have so many questions to answer its not funny. | ||
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On July 22 2015 07:20 WaveofShadow wrote: Rsoul you're another one of those players tha probably shouldn't be alive. Makes more sense to be you than clarity. I can't say how much I hate this post. Wave, this worked lovely last time you voted HF didn't it? You know why HF was kept alive until he was mislynched right? You realise that the same reasoning applies to both wagons given the current state of the game? | ||
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But I also find it increasingly hard to believe you cannot either 1) skim a thread esp one slowing down or 2) even check the critical posts, the votes to figure what is happening. Even looking at last day's vote its really not hard to realise why Ras is alive regardless of her alignment. >_< | ||
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Oats' reaction to not trusting Ras/Trfel's meta reads on each other (or the former on the latter I forget) is town, the thing is I also know that Ras uses very personal meta reads on people (reference Himalayas) to figure things out but again I understand the scepticism. I already explained my position on Ras and why that position isn't changed or what I see the lack of basis for change in these last few pages. I really did not like WoS' re-entry to this thread. I realise he's afk either way, and maybe he doesn't/can't/is unable to give a shit as either alignment at this stage in the game to be posting more. But I just have a bad feeling about his approach in the stuff I AM seeing from him and even if I had only maximum 10 minutes to be playing the game per day from a town perspective I'd still at least examine the competing case on Clarity (again, just look at the bloody vote count). And then I see shit like this: On July 22 2015 07:20 WaveofShadow wrote: Rsoul you're another one of those players tha probably shouldn't be alive. Makes more sense to be you than clarity. Didn't Clarity have more of the townreads earlier in the game? Shouldn't it make more sense for Clarity to be dead over Rasputin prior to D5? Maybe not now, but that's another beef I have with that. That was 12 hours ago though.....erghhhh. I looked back at the WoS quotes where he is begging people to vig him and where when it was initially said I can see where people got the town thining from that. I can't remember if that was BEFORE the gunsmith guns were distributed or after. I know I got heavy pressure to kill MZ when I got the gun, so maybe he said that knowing that it was unlikely to happen? IDK. Anyways, at this point, I don't think Trfel is scum - the read he gave on me (based on end of day 5) and the manner in which he did it is reflective of how he pulls apart the actions as they have happened in his town games. The responses I'm seeing now (page 429) seem reflective of that same trend. Also he's considering both worlds of people in his reads. I am looking at his NSM11 filter and where he's scumreading Rels in that game - he's not looking at both worlds, he's only looking at the scum world of Rels, when there is a justifiable (IMO) town version of that. Additonally in that game I'm seeing a lot of more bulletpoint/and/or high level statements when he's scumreading people. There are some pretty telling things from NSM11. His read on Kickstart in nsm11 is a lot of him making a scumread out of nothing. That's one of many examples, but I'm not seeing that here. There (for the most part) seems to be reasonable basis for change in this game, unless there's a scumread he's issued that I've missed. He does admit when he's unsure, and I see more of the aggressive mode Trfel in that game in some of his wall of text posts. I really don't think Trfel is scum. I'll re-read his major scumreads in this game, and try and compare/contrast, but I'm not terribly convinced atm. Going to try and get through ruXxar in the time I have. | ||
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On July 23 2015 03:37 Clarity_nl wrote: Dude I'm already being lynched. The point is not whether you can create a point in 30 minutes, the point is that you say "clarity has done X multiple times", and when asked "when" you go "give me 30 minutes" which might as well translate to: I was just saying things, I did not know they had to be true Trfel is a case-based poster, not conversational, he would do this as either alignment. From my own experience he's done it as town. | ||
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On July 23 2015 05:46 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm around if you guys wanna lynch someone other than me. How would you feel if someone asked you if you wanted to lynch Wave? | ||
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I'm just getting nervous right now. Do you think the case you made on Clarity would have come from a town clarity potentially playing suboptimally? | ||
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On July 23 2015 06:48 Oatsmaster wrote: OK that's too much. Trfel spent all his time making the case and now he wants to switch off of clarity. Bullshit. Bullshit. Well to be fair he didn't explicitly say either way. I can see why he wouldn't say either way from a scum perspective but if he has clarity and WoS on the same scumteam as a town, it wouldn't matter. IDK. | ||
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On July 23 2015 06:49 Trfel wrote: I would be okay to lynch WaveofShadow, but I don't want to risk a no-lynch to do so. Fair statement, can't argue if people aren't here. :/ | ||
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On July 23 2015 06:50 Oatsmaster wrote: Then why do you even entertain the idea of switching? Me or Trfel? I assume you mean me. I am just getting nervous seeing the vote count and doing some last re-reading of filters. If we don't have enough, I'm just praying at this point I'm just mindfucking myself and that Clarity really is scum. | ||
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On July 23 2015 06:55 boxerfred wrote: If you're scum, do I get a shoutout postgame for the fear read? No you won't because I am town (miller) this game. | ||
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On July 23 2015 07:01 Oatsmaster wrote: Gg. Rux played pretty well. Yeh I felt weird on him, but I would have never been able to put together a convincing argument. | ||
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I wonder how geript feels on THAT read.... | ||
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On July 23 2015 07:05 Blazinghand wrote: Town blue roles overclaimed / claimed too early and town got into a mode of not thinking and just lynching. Also several players spammed up the thread pretty bad, and made it difficult for others to read and do analysis. 1000% Last EoD I was getting really frustrated trying to blast through 40+ page filters. I couldn't fault Ras if she was legit going for the shit up the thread strategy but the others....just ew. | ||
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On July 23 2015 07:09 Clarity_nl wrote: Do you reckon I post too much? Obviously the last few days I posted more and they were all smaller, but before that point I feel I did not. That was in reference to the D5 - I was trying to get through HF's and Ras's filters. Yours today I had some more time to read through. | ||
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On July 23 2015 07:15 rsoultin wrote: i wasn't going to be "around" to vote wave when we had the game in the bag xP but you're 100% right wave was super scummy toward the end and i'm surprised more people didn't jump on him for it I started to get worried due to OGI - I knew you were in ts3 playing voice mafia but I thought I'd be breaking the rules if I mentioned that. | ||
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On July 23 2015 07:15 Blazinghand wrote: Majority Lynch really hurt town this game. D5 there were 11 players and the votes were 5-5-1, so there was a no-lynch. Literally any town player except I guess EBH could have averted that by moving a vote, and none of you did. Heck, it would have been better to lynch EBH than to no-lynch, since it would cost you a mislynch either way. In the future I'll switch to a different system since this one seemed to fail pretty spectacularly. That being said, a lot of what happened (the spam, the lurking, the lynches without thinking) was system-independent. It just reminds me of IML in Hammertime - 9p game and town was rarely ever organised - here town was rarely if ever organised, towns haven't been terribly organised in most games - esp larger ones - for quite some time. I know minis it's a little easier but I didn't realise it was majority lynch until close to the end of day 1 and I flipped out in my shadow qt when I saw that :/ | ||
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At least I didn't hammer myself. >_< | ||
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On July 23 2015 07:24 Damdred wrote: Hts mvp >_< | ||
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The cases on her weren't very good (thorough?) at all. | ||
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Much <3. | ||
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On July 23 2015 08:26 rsoultin wrote: i've been lynched/conceded hts has more than once i think? bunnies always gets lynched but blame it on the ovaries if you like? On TL, I've been lynched once. I have never been lynched as town though either on TL or on any other site I've ever played on. So at least I'm doing something right there :/ But yeh when I saw that post eod 5 I was honestly like WTF. | ||
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On July 23 2015 08:29 Clarity_nl wrote: Yep. Although if you look at how my lynch happened no one actually had any reasons for me being scum, which is sad. That's why I got a bit antsy at EoD day 6 :/ Close but not quite. | ||
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On July 23 2015 09:23 rsoultin wrote: signed up but i'm kind of anticipating those fear!reads lol Don't be surprised. Heh I was getting them already in Gaiden because of Not Themed from BF/HF and I think I'm pretty shit tier as both alignments >_< | ||
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On July 23 2015 21:54 Rels wrote: - I was so sure HTS was scum all game! =p I probably don't have room to talk since I relied on meta more than I normally have in my games, but the meta reads on me were terrible, only OWS actually understood that I don't play anything the same between minis and large games and that lack of pushing people in a large game was not mafia indicative like some people thought it was. Luckily it wasn't a real problem as I wasn't in too much danger of being lynched but it was pretty annoying with the tunnellers (i.e. Boxerfred/Holyflare). | ||
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JAT saying that I clash with townleaders in my town games more. Something like that. | ||
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On July 24 2015 01:37 Clarity_nl wrote: Knowing nothing of meta, HtS looked very town throughout the game and the only doubts I had were due to how "clean" her game was, but that just seems to be her style. Applying meta correctly is super difficult. I think HtS using bf's meta to show that he's town was accurate, and I should have picked up on rsoultin going "I dunno what ur talking about lol" The reason I did not pick up on Ras saying that was because I don't recall her playing ever with Boxerfred. She didn't play (I don't think?) in NSM10, BF only lasted a day in Himalayas where he was super lurky and she didn't play in Not Themed, so my expectation for her knowing that was zero. | ||
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And HF, I think I told you why I purposely ignored you. I probably would have done it regardless of my alignment (even if I was scum). I'm not saying it was right, but I wasn't particularly fond of how you were dealing with things, although now that I know you were possibly having RL issues that further compounded it, probably doesn't help but it just reminded me of how you as scum could possibly try to disrupt me from scumhunting or reading or furthering myself and I was wrongfully afraid the same thing was happening. I considered what you did to me in Aperture, but you did the same thing in Himalayas (I realise I didn't articulate that one well). | ||
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