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I'm sorry that I haven't been able to fully participate this cycle but I'm very busy at the moment. I am fully caught up but can't trust myself to parse together the information sensibly. If you have any brief questions I will do my best to respond to them.
Off the top of my head: Ordinarily I would be voting for Boxerfred at this juncture, however, since he is a new player it makes it hard to distinguish between genuine incongruence's or generic mafia misplays and I'm having trouble figuring out his alignment. If I had to solely base it off of day 1 though I'm not sure I agree with people like prplhz who say that his TMI is just the fact that he was a newbie pushing his read, everything was based around Yamato being red, it was far too weird.
As for his actions today I don't know if it's just not thought out or what. His jump onto Justanothertownie after calling him his top town yesterday when everyone else seemingly did so is especially weird. Mig's case essentially came down to justanothertownie not doing anything after the Artanis push, however, prplhz/mig/fecalfeast are all pretty much guilty of this same fact so it should not make much difference to them. Boxerfred, however, would have been town reading justanothertownie up until night 1 since that is when he stated it so when Mig's case suggests that justanothertownie has not done anything at all, Boxerfred should not be agreeing with this fact. I feel like he was backtracking when he was caught pointing out things he shouldn't have been doing.
Chezinu is just a solid vote right now though. His continued neglect at answering Half the Sky's questions are irritating and although he does provide some amusement as long as he does not properly interact with people and play the game properly I have no qualms with voting for him.
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Day 2 Vote Count
Chezinu (6) Tentatively will be lynched
prplhz
FecalFeast
marvellosity
Half the Sky
NaCl'y
Justanothertownie
marvellosity (1)
Chezinu
Not voting: (4)
Mig
fuba
VayneAuthority
Boxerfred
Day ends in . Voting is mandatory.
If I missed a vote or got something wrong please let know immediately so I can rectify it.
Vote actions:
+ Show Spoiler +
prplhz->Chezinu
FecalFeast->Chezinu
marvellosity->boxerfred
boxerfred->VayneAuthority
marvellosity->Chezinu
Alakaslam/Half the Sky -> Chezinu
NaCl'y -> Chezinu
Chezinu->marvellosity
marvellosity -> boxerfred
Boxerfred -> unvote
Marvellosity -> Chezinu
Justanothertownie -> Chezinu
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On June 09 2015 15:57 Mig wrote:
lmao chez is the best. Just going to assume chez is going to get lynched next. So besides him who is most likely to be mafia after him.
So after rethinking things, I came to a realization, why the fuck are we all so sure that JTA is town?
What has JTA done this entire game? He is around constantly, but how many people have you seen him push to get lynched? The only person this entire game that JTA has been 100% gunho on lynching was artanis. Which in hindsight should be throwing off some red flags. The second that NAcl claimed, JTA wanted artanis insta lynched. He is 100% sure that there is no way that the game could have a doctor and jk, why? In my mind if mafia had a rber and or vig it would be fine and totally balanced. But JTA was fucking positive this was impossible, maybe because he knows the mafia roles and knows it would be bullshit for town to have 2 protective roles. This is the same shit as yamato except hes attacking instead of defending. Conversely look at how prplhz/marv/vayne reacted, none of them were totally certain what to believe.
So besides artanis who has JTA pushed? He has thrown suspicion at me/marv/ a few random other people but has he actually tried to get a single person besides artanis lynched?
You sure about this? Few flaws in this argument, when I'd read both the thread and JAT's filter, JAT was on Artanis partially because of gameplay/meta.
On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim?
The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he?
Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation?
The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today.
The gameplay/meta what I refer to is what I've bolded in this quote - like I said when I first got in here - I weigh any claims not just by timing - which JAT already did - but also by the townplay backing it up. From early game onwards, Artanis had done not much of substance, and JAT's rationale on Artanis is presumably from experience - I have played with both players enough that they probably have had the experience to judge like that on each other.
I also thought JAT moved on to Yamato after Salty explained his play and dropped the claim.
Yes JAT does say there's no way there are 2 prot roles in a 13 player game, and to be honest I'm not sure if a vig in there makes it any better, most 13 player games any vig is one-shot so even after that scum vig exhausts the shot, mafia would still have to contend with 2 prot roles esp if the vig/kp misses both of them...with 1kp thereafter. Even if vig hits either prot role, the second prot role can cause mafia to miss another kp.
I mean mafia could get lucky and hit both prot roles with both the default kp and the vig, but all in all that is just awfully swingy and not having a clue how WBG hosts his games, host wifom, forget it. I've never played/hosted a 13p game with two prot roles ever, so....
In any case though I don't think this makes JAT mafia. In his filter he goes on Artanis in two other separate quotes for his gameplay - he's putting emphasis on not just the claims but the gameplay after the fact as well, which you seem to ignore. Artanis was the brunt of his push D1 with yamato coming after the cc was dropped.
D2 I'm still catching up on since I didn't get caught up on the second half of the thread, but I really don't think JAT is mafia based on how he pushed Artanis alone - he broke it down adequately I feel - and I don't think the role speculation esp in a closed setup (esp since closed setups make things pretty more wifom anyhow) is problematic.
JAT's lack of pushes on other people (D2 maybe? can't comment since I'm not caught up) could be valid but considering he's going on BF right now, he appears to me to be at least figuring things out. But the argument for day 1 vs Artanis really doesn't stand. And I'm not sure why you ignored the gameplay angle of that either. Selective reasoning?
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
HtS blates town
Slam read godly
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On June 09 2015 22:41 NaCl`y wrote:
Chezinu is just a solid vote right now though. His continued neglect at answering Half the Sky's questions are irritating and although he does provide some amusement as long as he does not properly interact with people and play the game properly I have no qualms with voting for him.
That and dropping the push against FF, and if I recall right last night FF was in thread when Chez reappeared even if briefly.
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EBWOP - Long wall post directed at Mig -
"And I'm not sure why you (Mig) ignored the gameplay angle of that either."
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I am also potentially liking a Fuba vote more and more.
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On June 09 2015 23:03 NaCl`y wrote:
I am also potentially liking a Fuba vote more and more.
See? Then we are all agreeing on my 3 top targets. Chez, Fuba and boxer. Would probably lynch all of them.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
not lynching fuba today i don't think
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I had forgotten all about Fuba since his entrance. Good lord.
Boxerfred this is his second game. His first game, I was coaching two townies and I was able to ping his posting out as scumlike partially because of lurkiness but more tellingly because he was making soft pushes. At least on the one townie I was coaching if I remember right. I am fine with the Chez lynch, though if I think Fuba or BF prove to be even better I'll definitely pipe up.
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On June 09 2015 23:13 marvellosity wrote:
not lynching fuba today i don't think
Why? Any reason to townread him or do you just think the others are more scummy?
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JAT what is your main issue with Fuba? Aside from lurkiness. But from hosting Carnaval, he is not a high-count poster. I think even VA pointed it out that game.
I know from content he accepted Artanis' claim without considering anything else that bugged me.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On June 09 2015 23:17 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2015 23:13 marvellosity wrote:
not lynching fuba today i don't think Why? Any reason to townread him or do you just think the others are more scummy?
maybe both? I know it sounds silly to say 2nd half of d2, but i kinda want to give him more time... i can see him being town
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Might need to take a look at fuba's scum games though if he plays the same way (not amount but content) as both alignments he could give me a headache.
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On June 09 2015 23:19 Half the Sky wrote:
JAT what is your main issue with Fuba? Aside from lurkiness. But from hosting Carnaval, he is not a high-count poster. I think even VA pointed it out that game.
I know from content he accepted Artanis' claim without considering anything else that bugged me.
I know that he is a lurker regardless of alignment. What you say is one of the points against him and I repeatedly pointed out posts by him that were just all around awful. His sparse contributions were not good or towny in my eyes. I can give him one more day while killing chez but I don't see the slightest reason to assume that he is town.
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On June 09 2015 23:20 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2015 23:17 justanothertownie wrote:On June 09 2015 23:13 marvellosity wrote:
not lynching fuba today i don't think Why? Any reason to townread him or do you just think the others are more scummy? maybe both? I know it sounds silly to say 2nd half of d2, but i kinda want to give him more time... i can see him being town
It would be more helpful if you had any actual reason or could show me a post that makes you think so and why.
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On June 06 2015 15:59 fuba wrote:Sorry, I was really out of it today. First, regarding the claims... I can't find a reason to really disbelieve NaCl's claim. Was at least leaning town on him before it (mostly because of the case that people seem to agree seems accurate, though I haven't had the time to look into mig's previous games myself). That being said, I can't really decide what to make of Artanis's claim. My instinct is to believe him, though that instinct has bitten me in the ass before. Like prplhz said, his story does have a consistency to it that leads me to believe he's telling the truth. The fact that prplhz's view suddenly seemed to flip on the subject makes me... uncomfortable. Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 20:40 boxerfred wrote:On June 05 2015 18:10 Mig wrote:
boxerfred what do you think of me? Fecal?
Is your vote for yamato a serious one? You believe he's most likely to be scum just because he voted you? No thought on you or fecal thus far On yamato? Given that he lurks, only to make a vote on me, only to leave another short, lurky comment? Yeah could very well be. That's not too solid however. I tend to no-vote currently. I think I'd prefer to lynch this guy. Gives reasons to see yamato as scummy>says yamato could be scummy>backs off on it>prefers no-lynch over guy he thinks could be scum. I mean, I understand wishy-washiness better than anyone, but he definitely seems to just be coasting by. Like... if he'd really given enough thought to preferring a no-lynch over a yamato lynch, why didn't he then switch his vote? He seems to just be saying things to say things, giving the appearance of participation, and disappearing. ##Vote boxerfredGotta get some sleep, but I'll get up an hour or two early to read/talk.
Hmmm it'd be a real stretch to consider this TMI but I don't understand this consistency he's addressing. Artanis' gameplay was questionable and it was rightfully questioned.
Damn I'm just going to look at other quotes and see if something jumps out.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On June 09 2015 23:25 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2015 23:20 marvellosity wrote:On June 09 2015 23:17 justanothertownie wrote:On June 09 2015 23:13 marvellosity wrote:
not lynching fuba today i don't think Why? Any reason to townread him or do you just think the others are more scummy? maybe both? I know it sounds silly to say 2nd half of d2, but i kinda want to give him more time... i can see him being town It would be more helpful if you had any actual reason or could show me a post that makes you think so and why.
it would, but it seems like unnecessary effort unless he's in genuine danger of being lynched.
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On June 09 2015 23:27 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2015 23:25 justanothertownie wrote:On June 09 2015 23:20 marvellosity wrote:On June 09 2015 23:17 justanothertownie wrote:On June 09 2015 23:13 marvellosity wrote:
not lynching fuba today i don't think Why? Any reason to townread him or do you just think the others are more scummy? maybe both? I know it sounds silly to say 2nd half of d2, but i kinda want to give him more time... i can see him being town It would be more helpful if you had any actual reason or could show me a post that makes you think so and why. it would, but it seems like unnecessary effort unless he's in genuine danger of being lynched.
lazy jerk
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There aren't even that many posts of his. It can't be that hard :/
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EPT
