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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
On June 14 2015 22:48 Half the Sky wrote: The other thing to consider is if BF flips town, could there be an element of TMI in VA hard defending him? Especially in light of all the evidence presented. I had the same thought | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
On June 14 2015 22:49 justanothertownie wrote: I never called FF scum I just disputed the townreads on him. I never pushed marv. I never pushed salty. The only reason I pushed Artanis was the cc. And even if I had pushed everyone at some point - so what? That's not exactly what scum wants to do. So what is your point bf? I'll try to set up a list of all players alive and the pushes that came. Maybe we'll get something out of this. | ||
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justanothertownie
16319 Posts
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Mig
United States4714 Posts
Also, do you have any reasons to think I am mafia besides baseless speculation (referring to things like maybe mig saw the breadcrumb and told mafia qt which lead to yam defending etc)? | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On June 15 2015 02:04 Mig wrote: Boxer, I would like to hear your reason for voting fuba yesterday. Also, do you have any reasons to think I am mafia besides baseless speculation (referring to things like maybe mig saw the breadcrumb and told mafia qt which lead to yam defending etc)? This. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Yamato's pushes/comments - on FF http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=13#245 Checked around this quote, FF seemed to have a valid comment on the state of the game, so this is probably a random quip from yam. Certainly doesn't affect my current read on FF. - on prplhz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=9#171 Yam's answer to prplhz seemed pretty evasive to me since he said he'll let marv do the reading, does not look like prplhz made anything of it, not immediately. Following comment by prplhz is a comment on JAT (presumably his tone) and then prplhz focuses on the entire claim business and JAT. Once Salty rescinds cc, he ultimately sheeps Salty based on what he felt the merits on the case. From the interactions alone, I think here say more about Yam than they do prplhz, esp since prplhz prioritised other issues in thread at that time so it's feasible he could have just let Yam slide if he missed it. So I’d say this alone won’t affect the town read I had on prplhz. - on BF (vote, etc, plus my walkthrough) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=7#131 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=13#249 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=21#407 (Note – already commented on these in my walkthrough and concluded that BF was guilty of TMI and thus mafia. My walkthrough starts on page 93.) - on JAT http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=7#134 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=18#358 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=19#368 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=19#375 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=20#399 (Also Mig’s case in case I missed something) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=84#1664 I looked at the interactions again comparing the JAT interactions with the ones for Marv and Artanis, whose alignments are already known. JAT had made the contention that he cannot control what Yamato said. To be fair Yam was all over the place with marv and Artanis as well, and his reasons for calling marv mafia, whilst existent, were very poor. So looking at JAT… Response to Yamato re: Artanis’ claim http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=84#1664 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=21#403 I’d say based on the above, JAT pretty much highlights between behaviour and meta why Artanis should be lynched and answers yam’s question easily. Looking at the course of the thread, he also illustrates the same problem to prplhz and a few others before making a massive post on the problems with a town Artanis claiming so early. So the answer itself is towny I would think but the only downfall here is why he doesn’t make a conclusion on yam’s alignment immediately asking these questions. The thing is, others questioned it, I think FF, prplhz, VA, etc were all in the thread, all at the same time, and he certainly didn’t push against any of them, nor objectively it would have been productive to do that, so he may have just been more focused on trying to push Artanis at this point for what he saw as a dubious claim. I looked at the key phrases Mig had issues with again from JAT’s perspective. The part about “what is your problem.” I re-read that statement a few times and you could interpret it for him to ask “what is your problem with the interactions” - at least to me it’s inferred based on yam’s previous question and the sentence immediately following it: “It should be apparent I don’t think the interactions….” etc JAT’s answer at least to me makes sense, why he didn’t pressure prplhz is another issue entirely but at least he answered that there was no need to do so or he didn’t think it was seriously scummy it warranted a followup. Also why did JAT ignore Yamato? I am reading JAT’s filter through page 5 and he focuses disproportionately enough on mostly Artanis though with some commentary on marv and mig, and whilst Artanis and marv are flipped town, the push on Artanis, again, was legit. JAT’s scumreading marv was explained by this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=26#509 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=26#519 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=26#520 Namely behaviour that focused on marv’s views on Artanis, not Yamato. All in all, I think his focus on others for reasons he legitimately found them scummy, even if he was wrong – and doing so in conversation, which is the norm for him – probably took enough of his time he wasn’t really able to focus on Yamato. I mean if he really was just dithering around everyone I could understand this argument but in context of what he was focusing on and how he was doing it, I don’t think his ignoring Yamato makes him mafia. It was only when Salty drops the CC he actually looks to Yamato. Was Mig or marv realistically getting lynched at that time? It didn't look like that was happening. I get the part about him saying it was irritating but the "lynch the JK comment....smells" makes me think he's suspicious enough and I'm not sure with the way everyone was coalescing on yam (and I think he'd just afked at that point too) there wasn't much to push there either. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Mig - was JAT actually present when the marv/yam stuff was going on? Or did that happen whilst he was afk? Maybe I have to read yet again (JAT’s long filter is tenuous lol) but if it happened before the counterclaim (or even after Artanis' initial claim) it would fall in line with JAT being so predominated by the whole Artanis thing he couldn’t comment or felt an honest need not to prioritise it. If it happened before Artanis's initial claim then you might have a valid point here. I know the scumread on marv was concurrent with the whole Artanis situation, given the reason but... | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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justanothertownie
16319 Posts
On June 15 2015 03:13 Half the Sky wrote: One potential thing I could have missed: Mig - was JAT actually present when the marv/yam stuff was going on? Or did that happen whilst he was afk? Maybe I have to read yet again (JAT’s long filter is tenuous lol) but if it happened before the counterclaim (or even after Artanis' initial claim) it would fall in line with JAT being so predominated by the whole Artanis thing he couldn’t comment or felt an honest need not to prioritise it. If it happened before Artanis's initial claim then you might have a valid point here. I know the scumread on marv was concurrent with the whole Artanis situation, given the reason but... What yam/marv stuff are you talking about exactly and why should I have cared about it at all? | ||
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justanothertownie
16319 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote: Some stuff I noticed, marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind. [...] On June 11 2015 14:33 Mig wrote: JAT interacting with Yam + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2015 17:12 justanothertownie wrote: @Yamato: No idea what your problem is. It should be apparent that I do not think the interactions tells us anything about chez alignment. Accusing him the way he did does not look good for prplhz but there is nothing to pressure here. In fact I would argue that me going against mig is the most pressure anyone in this game has applied so far btw. Totally dismissive. "no idea what your problem is". Maybe his problem is that he's mafia but JAT doesn't seem concerned. Consider that before and shortly after this JAT called myself/marv/artanis mafia. But he never discuss Yam at all, even during the marv/yam argument where they are both calling each other mafia JAT never comments. This is what it was all about but I had been missing the context of those interactions. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On June 15 2015 03:30 justanothertownie wrote: I assume you are talking about the stuff were yamato said marv is more dickish as mafia. I really don't know why you would expect me to give a shit about that. It is obviously completely wrong but town yamato can be wrong and at that point he was at least actively discussing stuff which is something he rarely does as mafia and of course it stopped right after the claim shennanigans. And yes, it was right before the cc and I might have been afk (don't really remember) but I remember coming back to the cc and starting the whole Artanis train. Forget it. Just checked Yamato's filter again and I now see what you mean. Yeah I wouldn't have given a shit about that either especially not compared to the Artanis situation. | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
HTS is bleeding town to me, had a TR on slam before JAT is one of those people that has burned me as mafia but ATM I am reading him town prplhz isn't playing the best game ever and I may revisit him but I think the "lurks as mafia, posts as town" meta works for him still FecalFeast isn't playing his best either but his cases show a decent towny thought process and he has been around for most major discussions to ask questions. + Show Spoiler + also he got town pm My case on boxer having a scum mindset still stands but I don't think he goes for the double bus (actually now that I am typing this I think someone said he probably WOULD go for the double bus can I get a confirmation?) so him going at VA makes me think they aren't a team for now. mig is someone I haven't actually put much effort into reading since like day 1 which is actually pretty terrible considering I've got him on my scum poe list. I'll do that now | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
On June 07 2015 05:16 Mig wrote: Just tell me who the mafia are fecal. Easy peazy. Reasons would be a bonus did I really pass up a chance to post the 'fuck you i wont do what you tell me' video? I'm slipping... | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
##vote justanothertownie yolo | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
The only times I see mig actually interact with yamato are in these 2 posts On June 07 2015 03:18 Mig wrote: You havent tried to do shit yam. Quit being emo. If you are town then make a case. which makes you think mig has a scum read on the guy, at least it makes me think he does. On June 07 2015 04:00 Mig wrote: Nac went back and read your post. Correct me if I am wrong but your point is Yam immediately believed the claims which implies he had too much information. But isnt yam jumping to some idiot conclusion without thinking about it just what he does? Maybe he thinks you caught him tho which is why hes being emo and hasnt pushed for anyone like he normally does. Except a few posts in his filter later he lightly defends him but still calls him emo. These posts read like mig is genuinely annoyed with yamato, in my opinion. Possibly faced with a double-whammy afk team (VA/yamato) I can see the frustration leaking into the thread. This is pretty wifom though. Otherwise, he avoids talking about yamato, instead asking other people about yamato. + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2015 04:00 Mig wrote: Nac went back and read your post. Correct me if I am wrong but your point is Yam immediately believed the claims which implies he had too much information. But isnt yam jumping to some idiot conclusion without thinking about it just what he does? Maybe he thinks you caught him tho which is why hes being emo and hasnt pushed for anyone like he normally does. On June 05 2015 18:10 Mig wrote: boxerfred what do you think of me? Fecal? Is your vote for yamato a serious one? You believe he's most likely to be scum just because he voted you? On June 07 2015 05:59 Mig wrote: What makes you think yam is town artanis? marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind. Even trying to scum marv a little by assuming marv should know yam is playing normally. Him constantly trying to push scum onto me all game, getting upset at people not voting me and belief that I 'don't care about scumhunting' adds to the above sentiment. If I am doing summy things X, Y, and Z and to him don't care about finding scum, why would he start to consider yamato less than 2 hours before deadline? On June 07 2015 06:18 Mig wrote: If Fancyfeast isnt lynched yam would be my #2. I dont think town yam just gives up and lets himself get lynched like this normally. Hard for him to pass up opportunities to argue with people when he thinks hes right. Then leading up to lynch he gets EVEN MORE wishy-washy and thinks about moving his vote to chez On June 07 2015 07:51 Mig wrote: I wouldnt want to switch to boxer right now since he showed up when there was 0 pressure on him right before deadline. Would consider chez but meh not sure that is better than yam. And finally, when he realizes his vote on me wasn't counted (only 1 pound sign) he hops on the wagon at the very end On June 07 2015 07:56 Mig wrote: I did vote for feast but fine put me on yam #vote yam To me this day 1 is exceptionally scummy. | ||
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Mig
United States4714 Posts
Honestly anyone who is town and actually reads my entire filter and thinks I am mafia is not good at town. There is a huge amount of evidence at this point that I am town. The fact that people continually suspect me is starting to boggle my mind. | ||
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justanothertownie
16319 Posts
On June 15 2015 07:55 VayneAuthority wrote: im pretty sure we are all town guys, the answer is to no lynch and unlock the secret victory. honestly i got nothing this game. everyone at some point has given me a pretty good reason to read them as town, ##vote justanothertownie yolo This from a guy that is usually really proud of his reads at least does not sound very believable. I do not understand the reasoning either. People being too towny is certainly NOT the problem with this game. I kinda like FFs recent posts. I am still waiting for dat incredible bf list. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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