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VE's first post into the game was a decent little PSA and then a push on Choco for his opening, this was prob what had me liking him early on though looking back it's pretty NAI.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 07:49 VisceraEyes wrote:Hi guys! I've read most of the game so far and I don't like most of the reasons people are tossing around for calling others mafia. I don't think it makes the people giving them mafia though, so I'm not gonna name any names. Suffice to say: before you post that something makes someone else mafia, consider if they'd do it as town before you get your tunnel on. This has been a public service announcement by VisceraEyes. So far the person that sticks out the most to me is Chocolate. Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:08 Chocolate wrote:
I just wanted to vote you because your opening post was weirdly cheery
I don't know who you are either lol
As for kickstart's post, I also played some games in 2012/2013 I believe. I'll go back and see if I played with any of you people Aside from a vote, this is his only post in the game. Does "weirdly cheery" make ticktock mafia? Without context, this post just looks like he's trying to be seen in the thread, which is consistent with mafia trying to hide in plain sight. Why does a townie Chocolate even make this post? Further, in his vote post he wants tick to "1v1 me mate"....which if the lynch is boiled down to Chocolate/ticktock then I'm lynching Chocolate 100 times out of 100 based on what's in the thread right now....if he's town and wants ticktock to interact with him, then why does he disappear?
Next couple of posts could be pocket attempts on Nydus, also is pushing Nydus to vote Choco.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 07:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
Nydus can we be town together this game? That would be swell.
If yes, vote for Chocolate. If no, vote for me so I can vote for you. On June 03 2015 08:01 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 07:58 Kickstart wrote:On June 03 2015 07:52 NydusHerMain wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 07:43 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 07:33 NydusHerMain wrote:
Okay so I was formatting and pressed the wrong button.... to save myself the embarassment... I'm just going to barebone the rest -_- ....
Even though I said I didn't like Kickstarter, I also, funny enough, don't like Ritoky. His playstyle is just something I'm willing to vote on irrelevant of alignment. If we lynch him and he flips mafia, I'll gladly take the credit. If he flips town, I gladly take the blame.
I have a town read on Milo, I liked his reaction to Damdred and I liked that he was pressuring Ritoky (or at least attempting to). I don't see what's scummy about him to Kickstarter. Everything he says seems genuine to me.
Also, I'm kind of glad I pressed post by accident because I'm not a very frequent poster (I usually just post big WoTs or at least plan to) and I was scared I wouldn't meet the 10 posts per 72 hours rule. Phew.... See you guys again in 9 hours since I just need to make 1 post per 9 hours to meet the quota for this cycle. PEACE The rest of your post is even more odd to me. For one you just aligned yourself with Milo, for seemingly no reason (and I will also point out that you specifically mentioned his reaction to Damdred which was exactly what milo used as a town read on Damred but which is something that didn't stick out at all to me). Right now I clearly see a milo, Nydus, Damdred connection here which I find really odd given that, in my opinion, nothing has happened for you three to align yourselves like this. To be fair, Damdred has said nothing to align himself with them Nydus but there is a slight connection there in that these 3 seem to be thinking alike and making the same points. @DamdredCan you give detailed thoughts on milo and Nydus strange posts? Also, while I'm posting this Damdred also defended milo, making the link between them 2 even stronger. Another thing about your post that I quoted Nydus is that I really don't like that you said you are willing to vote ritocky just because you don't like his posting. Scum are the ones who don't care who is lynched, and the fact that you state that you don't care if he is town and is lynched is not an opinion a towns person should have. HAHAHAHA loaded question much? Anyways, I didn't completely flesh out my Milo townread because I was kind of annoyed that I hit post before I even finished posting and when I was about to edit, I remembered it was against the rules. To me, I think he's defending himself decently against both you and Ritoky, and his vote on Ritoky didn't feel out of place. I saw it as a pressure vote and didn't see it as anything he was going to keep forever unless he continued to see Ritoky as scummy. When someone called him out for contradiction, he admitted to making the mistake pretty quickly and I don't think that it's scummy to be stuck making a logic error. If he tried to stick with the error and pretend that it was correct, then I would think he was scummy but he did the opposite. That makes sense I guess. I would still like you to explain why you stated you would be fine voting ritocky just because you don't like his posting. I find it scummy that you stated you don't care if ritocky is town or scum but that you would be happy having him gone either way, so I would still like you to expand on this... I actually got the opposite read off Nydus' comment about ritoky: I find it very unlikely that Nydus comes in and says something as controversial as "I would lynch ritoky regardless of his alignment" as mafia. I find it far more likely that he says somethign like that as town.
Next few posts are mostly chatty posts, offering some advice, countering some of the validity on the push on milo. Nothing very indicative of anything.
He gets pretty excited when Milo agrees with him, it's a bit weird almost like he's trying to make Milo feel good for agreeing.
This post looks like he is being reasonable with Choco and just wants him to live up to his promises...
+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 08:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
@Chocolate
Yeah I don't expect anyone to be on all the time. My point has very little to do with your lack of activity and everything to do with the way you framed your absence. But whatever, it's a minor thing and something I'm willing to overlook for the time being.
You say you're caught up now, but that your only actual suspicion is Kickstart from what I can see - and it's for posting with too much authority? And scott, for agreeing with Kickstart? Is this accurate?
VE swaps his vote to Milo when Milo makes a post that he doesn't like VE ...
+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 09:22 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 09:22 milo109 wrote:
Sure.
I don't like VE. He's obviously a strong player, and I don't think he's contributed as many reads as he should have.
Sicklucker is an another possibility, but with people who still haven't posted, I don't think I need to find a third scum yet. LAWL Get voted scruuuuhhhhh
Responds to me about SL and explains to Milo that he has suspected him of being scum since he "slipped" and said Choco was afk, but it was Milo targeting VE that made him want to vote Milo...
This post was interesting to me.
On June 03 2015 09:50 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 09:42 milo109 wrote:On June 03 2015 09:40 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 03 2015 09:34 milo109 wrote:
GRR. This is frustrating me. I'm fine being read as scum for my own problems, but not for assuming that someone who hadn't posted was unable to defend themselves. HE WASN'T POSTING. THAT MEANT HE COULDN'T DIRECTLY RESPOND TO YOUR ACCUSATION. Except he did directly respond to my accusation. Directly. Whatever, I get what you're saying. In the future, just don't bring up your teammates ESPECIALLY if someone is drawing attention to them. Trust THEM to dig themselves out. Otherwise you end up digging BOTH of you a grave. I didn't. Which is why this is even more frustrating. I was wrong on the statement. But I was not predicting an AFK. Whatever it's fine. Expand on your VE read if you please - I've been just exploding town all over this thread. You say there's been a lack of reads out of me. I say that doesn't make me mafia. I say that I've contributed at least one mafia read, and that's the person I want to lynch, and now I'm also willing to lynch you. I'd say that I've contributed more than at least 50% of the game so far. I also say that I don't give many reads as both town AND mafia, but I give FEWER as town. What do you say to that?
I doubt scum would invite someone to keep reading them as scum, but at the same time this whole post screams Egomaniac... Eh it seems pretty likely that Town would post something like this.
Eventually VE backs off of Milo since he realizes he had gotten the timeline of events a little off.
VE returns to Choco and continues his push on him, this time largely because he doesn't get where Choco is coming from on his reasons to thing VE is scum. He goes back to trying to rally people to join his vote.
We get our first real look at VE's reads near the end of D1 in a list style post.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 04 2015 23:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
Here's where I'm sitting currently:
Town:
ritoky
scott
Nydus
Kickstart
Fidei
Ticktock
Won't Lynch Today / I WANNA say town, but I just can't yet for some reason:
Damdred
Onegu
People I'd probably lynch in spite of them probably being spewed town:
sicklucker
People I'm looking at filters right now to decide if I think they are the lynch today instead of Chocolate:
GGTemplar
People I'd lynch remorselessly:
Chocolate
milo
People I'll worry about later:
Everyone else.
That is another reason I townread VE early on, our reads lined up pretty well nearing EoD. VE keeps on Choco though and keeps pushing him for trying to make VE look like a bully.
VE starts to think GG might be scum and puts a vote on him, but gets swayed by GG's EoD posts to move back to Choco. He also disagrees to rit's ideas that GG or Choco are either both scum or both town.
I think it was Fidei or Scott who questioned this post...
On June 05 2015 03:49 VisceraEyes wrote:
This game is so weird, the people I DON'T expect to have reads on me do and the people I DO expect to have reads on me don't.
Though VE's next post at least listed a couple of the people he was talking about.
On June 05 2015 03:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like I expected GGTemplar to try and read me FIRST, because I'd say that of everyone here, he probably knows my play the best - I've mentored him in Video mafia and we've played together on All-Stars. But it's like he's been ignoring my posts...only interacting with me when I DEMAND his attention. It's really odd and plays into my mafia read on him.
It's kinda the opposite with Nydus, I didn't really expect Nydus to try and read me first considering we barely play together anymore and we haven't had many actual "post-game" interactions so-to-speak. But he read me relatively quickly (though he DID state reservation to reading me) and that kinda plays into my townread of him.
VE agrees that Milo's EoD unvote makes him town then respones to some posts by GG and Scott, I liked his points here... but I'm not sure they are relevant right now.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 05 2015 21:14 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 14:50 scott31337 wrote:
Nydus can you give us a list of your scum to town? You wasted time with the green/red, and I know that takes time to do so, so this won't ask for much.
Using formatting as a means of reading people is akin to throwing fucking rice in the air and using THAT to divine alignments. If that's what you're using to gauge others' alignments, then I really don't think you should be calling people's play bad and dumb, etc.
Weighs in on the Chezinu Rule... it only applies to Chezinu. Then pushes GG for sticking to his thinking based on this rule.
This builds to VE posting his case on GG.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 17:05 VisceraEyes wrote:GGTemplar spent most of the game giving hard townreads based on very early posts, and he spent a lot of time justifying those reads. I concede that the most blatant example of this, his reads on Nydus and Ticktock shown here, was at the behest of another player. However, if you'll kindly turn your packets to page 2 of his filter, you'll see a similar behavior throughout, with no prompting. I've explained here my meta reasoning for thinking he's mafia based on behavior - I would have expected him to try and get a read on me early if he's town. He explained numerous times that he didn't find the interaction between Chocolate and myself to be alignment indicative. Yet today, he's trying to use THAT against me. He also does small nuanced things like trying to appeal to authority and appeal to emotions. Further, his push on Ticktock reads to me as an attempt to remain consistent with his reads yesterday. It's convenient that he had a (very justified *winkwink*) either/or read on Kickstart/Ticktock, and somehow by the grace of God (but conveniently not by Templar's hand) Kickstart the jailer got lynched yesterday, and today EVEN WHILE OMGUSING ME, he maintains that Ticktock is the likeliest shot at mafia. He's not reevaluating the game at all, he's trying to remain consistent while pushing a specific agenda. Everyone should vote for GGTemplar today. He is the most likely mafia at this point in the game, I would say even more so than Chocolate. The only thing that makes me doubt it is the fact that he wasn't voting EoD yesterday, but as far as I know he thought he was or something. On June 06 2015 17:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
tl;dr
GGTemplar
Meta - Temp would read me early. "Couldn't", in spite of ritoky thinking I was pretty obviously town.
Behavior - Has over-justified his early reads imo, and has attempted to remain consistent with his previous reads rather than reevaluate the game. OMGUS on me reeks of desperation.
Doubts - He wasn't voting EoD, risking modkill.
My Bias/Hypocricy - I still think Chocolate is mafia, and Chocolate was the other wagon yesterday.
He is also clearly still on Choco even if he's decided to lynch GG.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 17:34 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 00:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like and why keep your vote on me if you're town? Why aren't you trying to put your vote on mafia to lynch them? It just smacks of trying to hide your vote somewhere that will give town no information, plopping it down on me with the FULL KNOWLEDGE that I'm not getting lynched today. I think this is the most damning thing about Chocolate. He couldn't justify putting his vote on anyone when it mattered at the end of the day, he just plopped it on me until an alternative wagon appeared and then "voted to save his life". He stated that he was changing his read of me apparently, but was still voting for me because he didn't want to or couldn't call anyone else mafia. Too afraid he'd piss someone off that might vote for him I guess.
At this point in his filter it seems like VE is blowing up at GG a lot. He is also really pushing on GG's townread of Milo and makes this large post.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 19:17 VisceraEyes wrote:The Milo Misunderstanding
From VisceraEyes Perspective Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 09:29 milo109 wrote:On June 03 2015 09:27 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 03 2015 09:26 milo109 wrote:On June 03 2015 09:22 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 03 2015 09:22 milo109 wrote:
Sure.
I don't like VE. He's obviously a strong player, and I don't think he's contributed as many reads as he should have.
Sicklucker is an another possibility, but with people who still haven't posted, I don't think I need to find a third scum yet. LAWL Get voted scruuuuhhhhh I assume you have a problem with my reasoning or is calling you scum blasphemy? Nah, I've thought you were mafia since you scumslipped that you knew Choco was AFK. You voting for me just gave me the incentive I needed.  I didn't know he was AFK, I knew he wasn't posting. This is the oddest reason to have a problem with me, considering all the other flaws in my reasoning. This is the faulty reasoning. I thought that milo had "slipped" that he knew Choco was not in a position where he could respond to my accusations (which NydusHerMain noticed). This is based on this interaction: Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 08:04 Chocolate wrote:On June 03 2015 07:49 VisceraEyes wrote:Hi guys! I've read most of the game so far and I don't like most of the reasons people are tossing around for calling others mafia. I don't think it makes the people giving them mafia though, so I'm not gonna name any names. Suffice to say: before you post that something makes someone else mafia, consider if they'd do it as town before you get your tunnel on. This has been a public service announcement by VisceraEyes. So far the person that sticks out the most to me is Chocolate. On June 03 2015 06:08 Chocolate wrote:
I just wanted to vote you because your opening post was weirdly cheery
I don't know who you are either lol
As for kickstart's post, I also played some games in 2012/2013 I believe. I'll go back and see if I played with any of you people Aside from a vote, this is his only post in the game. Does "weirdly cheery" make ticktock mafia? Without context, this post just looks like he's trying to be seen in the thread, which is consistent with mafia trying to hide in plain sight. Why does a townie Chocolate even make this post? Further, in his vote post he wants tick to "1v1 me mate"....which if the lynch is boiled down to Chocolate/ticktock then I'm lynching Chocolate 100 times out of 100 based on what's in the thread right now....if he's town and wants ticktock to interact with him, then why does he disappear? m8 I had to go eat dinner and wanted to stir up some discussion with what little was present in the thread Reading the rest of the thread now Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 08:09 milo109 wrote:
Now that I have a second to evaluate the game without immediate fear of being lynched...
I don't think that Chocolate is necessarily mafia for his one post. It's possible he had to go, and he was basing his read on Tiktok off of two posts. It seems a fine opener. Not sure if I like VE attempting to turn attention to someone unable to defend himself.
Nydus is my white knight, and I'm sure that will skew my opinion of him but he seems town just from the irreverent way he gave his reads.
I still don't like Kickstarter. I didn't like the tone of his accusation, and the way he quickly attempted to insure he wasn't thought of 'bandwagoning on me' as if he knew I would flip town. Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 08:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like okay wtf....
How did milo know that Chocolate was AFK? He literally gave no indication that he was leaving, he said he was STILL PLAYING actually because he said "I'm gonna go look at something brb", how did milo know that Chocolate was in a position where he actually physically couldn't respond (i.e. grabbing dinner)? So obviously me attesting that milo posted that Choco "couldn't" defend himself before Choco explained himself is factually incorrect. However, here: Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 20:21 milo109 wrote:On June 03 2015 14:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hmmmm...I DID get that timeline wrong. I'm not sure why that happened, I think maybe I got the sense that milo was typing his response to me WHILE Chocolate posted and maybe I took that and ran with it.
You're right. I did start typing the post before Chocolate posted, which is why I didn't bring it up. is the end result of that suspicion. In the end, I COULD have been right about milo slipping, but ultimately it's more likely that he's just town and thought Chocolate had been gone long enough to warrant thinking I might be trying to accuse someone not around from his perspective. My current read on milo has been detailed in this post. Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 08:37 VisceraEyes wrote:
I agree with the sentiment about Milo being town - it's the easiest thing in the world for mafia to just afk with their vote on a claim that late. The risk of losing that mislynch is too great for mafia to unvote just for the towncred of unvoting ASSUMING the lynch still goes through. I don't think it MAKES him town, but I'm not interested in looking at him any time soon that's for sure. On June 06 2015 19:25 VisceraEyes wrote:
EBWOP: To go further, ritoky also mentioned (and I agree) that it doesn't make sense for Milo to move his vote from a mafia perspective REGARDLESS of Chocolate's alignment, town OR mafia. If Chocolate is town why risk getting modkilled by doing anything at all? And if Chocolate is mafia WITH him the lynch could even end up on his partner Chocolate! A risky venture for virtually no gain in either case. Not completely outside the realm of possibility, but unlikely enough for ritoky to give him an Inno Child read. On June 06 2015 19:35 VisceraEyes wrote:
Plus, if I'm wrong and he's mafia, I get to say "I told you so D1" and push for a ban on him for playing against his win condition as mafia, inspiring all manner of drama in the Ban List Thread.
Win/Win
I'm going to ignore VE's post that is literally just quoting a bunch of GG's posts. Though VE does keep interacting with GG even if he is mostly just tunneled on him at this point.
These 3 posts look pretty decent though, they aren't just more stuff about GG which has been a lot of VE's D2 posts.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 08 2015 00:02 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2015 23:35 milo109 wrote:
Sure. I don't know if you've checked out my filter, but this entire game I've been on the side of Chocolate/Templar. Defending them against the pushes by VE especially. I'm not going to rehash old fights, but I don't see what VE is contributing. He finds one scummy thing one person does, and then just attempts to push a mislynch. He doesn't take the person's whole play into consideration. I just don't like the way he's been playing.
Damdred is almost the opposite. He started the game by mildly townreading everybody. None of his early posts take a stand. Then, when he is accused he defends himself by saying, 'make a case' or 'you're dumb' instead of actually proving himself town.
The bolded is a lie - with Chocolate and Templar I've outlined several things I don't like about their play, and I've presented all of that to the thread. To say that I just find one thing and tunnel it to oblivion is at best proof that you aren't even reading my filter and at worst a gross misrepresentation of my play. The italicized is your only actual reason for scumreading me, and I'll tell you for free that you're never going to find mafia based on whether you "like" how they play or not. I don't particularly like how you're playing, but you don't see me calling you mafia for it now do you? <3 On June 08 2015 01:10 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 00:17 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
It will pretty much legitimize how incompetent the vast majority of you are. Like what is the point of this? Let's suppose you're town and you ARE right for a moment - who cares post-game? It doesn't matter how right you were during the game, all you did was cry about how stupid everyone is and give up, so no one gives a shit whether you're right or not. And they won't next game either if you're town this game, because your reasoning doesn't make sense this game and you're not convincing. If you're town you need to take a step back and come at this game from another angle. Stop getting mad about it and try and figure it out - I realize that you think you have it figured out now, but I'm not mafia and you're putting all your money on it. Which is actually hilarious because up until halfway through this phase, you staunchly asserted that you had NO read on me and that NOTHING I've done, with Chocolate or otherwise, is alignment indicative. And you wonder why people are reading you mafia. Grow up Templar. Or hang because you're mafia. Those are your options. On June 08 2015 01:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
Damdred just look at what Chocolate says about why he is voting for me EoD1. After he comes to this "realization" that he's just OMGUSing me and that I may be town or whatever, he KEEPS voting for me because "he doesn't have any other mafia reads" and when he DOES finally vote for Kickstart (because he's the only other realistic wagon) he EVEN SAYS that it's just to save his life. He NEVER had any mafia reads during D1, and I think that he AS mafia just didn't want to piss anyone off.
And that brings us up to D3. VE has thus far been somewhat inactive today, and I'm not a big fan of him rolling over at this point in the game. Still though I think I have to keep my townread on him after looking at his filter. If he is scum this game he is doing a great job covering it up kus I'm not seeing it anywhere in his filter.
So I'm def not lynching VE today.
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On June 10 2015 10:34 Chocolate wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 09:35 Tictock wrote:
Also Damdred is correct he only ever voted for Kick...
Not sure that breaks my tinfoil hat theory about Damdred killing Rit N1 but it was mostly just the ramblings of my brain while I did other stuff.
Finally about to dive into filters, but right now I'm tempted to vote whoever suggested we start re-evaluate everything today just for the amount of headache I've gotten because of it. that sounds like sloppy scum play
Lol, you calling what I posted bad scum play?
Or my idea/theory about scum!Damdred's play bad?
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Bit disappointing that I napped for ~6hrs to get up and watch GSL yet nothing has happened in game...
On June 10 2015 11:40 Onegu wrote:
Somi still don't have my laptop back it went into the shop today. Will read filters tonight and give reads
Holding you to that Onegu. This game is a bit weird and def not easy, we need every towny we got to help weigh in.
On that note, I'm still pretty sure VE is town, but I'll be pretty angry with him if he doesn't do anything else today...
Gunna do some reading in Shen's filter just to see what her thinking was and then I think Scott is the last filter I still need to read. Starting to loose some steam myself so will do more summary and not as many quotes, maybe...
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First impressions. Holy crap Shen had a 6 page filter? Thats longer than some of the people who have been in this game from the get go... Makes sense that she got NK'd with that sort of pickup over one day...
Yea almost started doing what i have been doing for filters and try to go through the train of thought of the person. Thats stupid though since we know Shen is town so focusing on her reads.
Shen starts off scumreading Choco, Milo, Myself and Onegu. She stops pushing Onegu so hard as scum, but still doesn't like him since he hasn't done much of value. She also agrees to the logic around Milo'd actions EoD meaning he is very unlikely to be mafia. Drops me as a scumread based on my case on GG. Thus ends up focused on Choco.
Shen made a few good posts as to why Choco is likely scum this game. Also she keeps up the pressure on Onegu since he's only giving his rule as reasoning for his scumreads.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2015 13:49 Shendelzare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 05:55 Chocolate wrote:
case for KS
sorry for formatting in a hurry
"Took a nap cause I was feeling like shit and moody, probably came through in my posting. Lots of people have taken issue with my Nydus town read. I just want to say again that it was hastily done and I just said it off the top of my head because people were pressuring me to give more town reads (which again I don't find fair since I gave them, but people are greedy and wanted more and I reacted badly). It can be ignored and I have tried to explain why it happened, I will have to reevaluate him later but like I said I would probably not lynch him at the moment."
backpedaling and trying to appease everybody
"After addressing everyone getting a tryhard/bossy vibe from me, do you still find me suspicious? Does my defense that this is normal from me change your opinion at all?
I agree with the town reads part, that is why I don't like to give them this early but since I was asked for opinions on more than just milo i did give a few. Do you still find scott and myself to be most suspicious or has that changed?"
more appeasement
"Again milo I think you are focusing too much on me just because I was pressuring you so hard. That is fine I guess but I still would like to hear thoughts on someone aside from me you find scummy, or am I the only one at this point? Your points in my case I don't find particularly good either but I can address those later if people think they hold weight, for now I will work on posting reads on people aside from you as I have had multiple requests to do so."
evasion
"That said, is milo still slight town and I still slight scum to you? Are there any other reads you can give besides us two at this point?"
evasion
"Well me OMGUSing everything is a stretch. I went on milo and sl before they even mentioned me, and my read on GGT is the same with or without him directing anything at me. I am generally of the opinion that town reads aren't of much use D1, but I was pressured to name some earlier and I named yourself and VE, for basically the same reasons. I felt that you were both applying pressure when needed, you were both driving discussion, and both were being open and honest with your thoughts - all of which I think is helpful and thus I feel that you have been helpful for town up to this point. Does that mean I think you are both 100% town? No, but I feel confident in saying that I would not vote on either of you this cycle. To be honest the only other person I feel is slightly town atm is Nydus, but definitely not on the same level as you two. I have real issues with almost everyone else who I havent mentioned because I just feel their posts are void of strong feelings and I don't like that style of play. Namely I feel like Damdred, scott, Onegu, and Fideu (just off the top of my head) are not giving us anything to work with, their posts are void of reads and strong opinions, and while Damdred has asked a lot of questions and put a bit of pressure on at times, he is still guilty of not giving us his thoughts (though he said this is how he plays and that he will wait to make a stronger case when he is ready - which I intend to hold him too, if Day 1 ends and he is still guilty of what I outlined above I will have some real questions about him because he has been active enough and seems experiences and good enough to give some solid reads but has yet to do so). I think scott and fideu are new so I can understand the reluctance to stick their necks out on anything but I don't feel that is a real excuse, they still need to share their thoughts on things. Onegu seems to have arrived late on the scene but already his posting style is suspicious to me, much too much joking around; while this is normal and understandable at the start of the game, I feel like there is plenty of content to actually address, which he has not done. Can anyone tell me if this is normal posting from Onegu?"
verbal diarrhea which confused me, probably others
"id mention my issues with chocolate before and it seems he is getting a lot of heat atm, will see that happens there."
"well I'd like to bandwagon but I don't want to be held accountable for it" I don't know how answering questions can be considered appeasement. This sounds like Chocolate is trying to frame KS in a no-win situation. If he answers questions, it's appeasement. If he doesn't answer questions, he's evasive. If he gives a middle of the road answer, he's scum for giving a middle of the road answer. Are you fucking kidding me? No idea how the fuck those two responses to Milo are evasion. It makes perfect sense - I'm doing the same thing to Templar right now actually - to ask who else other than themselves are scum or asking that question if they only have one scumread they've been focusing on a lot of the game. There are three mafia in this game. That is a perfectly valid thing to do. If KS was evading questions, that's one thing but that point wasn't demonstrated in that case. Verbal diarrhea he says the last point on KS. That's tone at best and to me that's a cop out for him not wanting to really evalute KS before wanting to lynch him. That is a mafia based case coming out of Chocolate. That is just fucking horrible. When all he had to do was just vote him to survive, he gives THAT explanation? He frames him in a no-win spot in his case and the rest of his points are a steaming pile of shit. On June 07 2015 13:59 Shendelzare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 05:27 Chocolate wrote:
KS, if you would look back, you would see I posted only a few minutes after you, I had not yet seen what you wrote
ok let me try to generally address the points against me
1. the scott vote
he wasn't posting, had a general town read and nothing else at the moment, very easy way for scum to play it safe, I don't feel he is scum at all at the moment since he has posted a lot more since then
2. going scott over VE
uhhh it was pretty far before the end of the day and it was a case of pros and cons vs. only cons at the moment
3. I seen scummy because I've been defending all game
It's a cycle. If I don't defend myself, I get called dodgy scum. If I defend myself, I seem to be scrambling. In either case I have to spend a lot of my time and posts defending myself which continues to call attention to myself possibly being scum
4. switching votes a lot
tictock vote meant next to nothing, scott vote was imo logical at the time it was made, VE vote was slightly OMGUSing, onegu vote I continue to stand by but if you guys want to interpet meta to the detriment of town I can't stop you, KS I don't want to die, he seems scummy (and for my next post I'll try to be more formal why), and bandwagoned me
if there's anything else scummy you want to bring up about me then shoot Here's another really terrible post by Chocolate. #3 - yes you are scummy if all you do is defend. It's an issue of not whether you defend. It's an issue of you not to advance town agenda if all you do is defend. #4 Switching votes a lot. I think the problem here is not switching votes but reasoning behind them. I've already pointed out WHY the KS vote/case was terrible, but the rest - well I don't know about the Scott switch but the Tic and VE vote reasoning does look pertty shallow. Onegu's play is shit all around, I understand that, but his reasoning for KS like I said before is a steaming pile of shit.
This post stands out to me, but I'm not really sure what's catching my eye about it. Prob just kus I'm a little suspect of Damdred still, but his couple of vote analysis posts have me leaning town on him.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2015 14:47 Shendelzare wrote:
I looked at the database link ritoky showed me.
Damdred has a decent track record as scum. Particularly a good survivor the later the game goes.
Scott mentioned some "why am I alive" rule. I wonder why it does not seem to apply to him.
This was a good summary post Shen made as to why she thinks Choco is a good lynch.
I should also point out that Shen kept pushing on Milo despite hid EoD move. She didn't seem to buy that it made him confirmed town. If she were still alive I'd prob give her towncred for doing that when nobody else was really willing to, even if it came up again today.
Shen made a few other nice posts and pointed out some odd things a few other players had made but overall I think her last post of the game makes it pretty clear where her head was at.
On June 09 2015 03:06 Shendelzare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2015 01:41 Chocolate wrote:
I've been reading the filters of both VE and TT from d1. I'm on a phone so it would be hell on earth for me to do a shitton of quoting so here it goes:
Both call each other town pretty early on
Both push votes on townies (though of course I am not confirmed townie)
As soon as I park a very early vote on TT, VE scum reads me
I'm pretty sure all of TTs d1 list (GG, me, milo, SL) is town and gives him flexibility to bandwagon as he pleases
Additionally, although his posts regarding me are all cautious (need to read more, you are all three probably town) he puts me second on his list
I'll read n1 and d2 soon too but again I'm on my phone so it takes me a while to structure a post adequately
Still not sure who third scum is, at this point I'm finding damdred unlikely I swear every post I read from you at this point screams mafia and it reminds me of that horrible case you had on KS day one. I would have hammered you if I was in play then because of the way you are framing your points. What is making either Tic/VE scum reads for their reads on each other? Like I said pushing votes on townies alone does not make some scum it's how they do it. Also the point about the D1 list is questionable when you don't consider how he prioritized or supported his reads, and having four scum reads means he's wrong on at least one so how he changes those reads should be more important at this stage. I had four scum reads when I gave my first list post so I knew I was wrong somewhere and I knew I had to re-evaluate. He is doing that FYI and so are a few others. I also find it interesting you find Damdred unlikely since at least one other player cites him for being cautious and you're calling Tic cautious so considering at least half this field is scum reading you (and if you haven't figured out already you are my top target) you might want to start pointing out some differences in where you're coming from once you're on a computer otherwise you're going to be held accountable for double standards in your reads.
From all this I think it's pretty clear Shen would still be pushing for Choco as today's lynch which I still fully agree with, despite all the re-reading and re-evaluating I've done today.
Unless someone can bring up a solid case on anyone else I'm leaving my vote on Choco.
I'm kinda over reading filters at this point since I keep coming back to the same place and it's a decent bit of work. I think Scott is the only one I'll have skipped and I'm like 80% certain he is town so I'm fine with that right now.
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Ugh, this game... we are so split up
Pretty sure votes are something like this right now
Chocolate (3) - Scott, Tictock, VisceraEyes
Tictock(1) - Fidei
VisceraEyes(1) - Chocolate
Damdred (1) - Onegu
Not Voting: NydusHerMain, milo109, Damdred
So this could still end up going lots of ways.
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@ Scott
Your links are broken... What are you thinking?
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OH btw I have to head into work in like an hour so... yea >.<
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On June 11 2015 02:06 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2015 02:01 scott31337 wrote:
How about at least a baby case Onegu on Damdred? I've already said it. His quick flip read on me. Plus town damdred doesn't just stop playing. He has stopped playing. Plus my gut reads are strong. Gut read says damdred scum. He was to quick to claim himself town for lynching our blue day 1 also
Your read isn't bad, but it isn't especially good either... but you doing this...
On June 11 2015 02:07 Onegu wrote:
I'll be voting damdred everyday until one of us is dead btw
At first I'm tempted to say this sounds like scum behavior to try and push a mislynch, but then GG did sorta the same thing just with more words and he was town..
Onegu if you are wrong here and we listen to you, we'll almost have to lynch you tomorrow. If you are town this would mean your almost asking us to throw the game...
Are you THAT sure?
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Well whatever, I'm prob not going to move my vote at this point...
I'm pretty sure Choco will flip red, and that would mean that Milo becomes a great D4 lynch imo. Still not 100% on who rounds out that team though...
If I'm wrong about Choco... and I really hope I'm not... you guys are free to lynch me D4 (assuming I survive the night). If I do survive the night I'll prob be trying to decide if I should listen to Onegu or lynch him tomorrow...
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Fuck me... Dammit I was really hoping Choco would flip scum so we had a solid reason to lynch milo. I've hated his posting pretty much all game but I just can't see him as scum given his unvote D1.
Now I'm totally lost this game. If it turns out Scott is scum and I just failed to look through his filter yesterday I'm going to kick myself so hard postgame. I've played with Scott in each of my games here thus far but this is the first game he wasn't lynched D1... and Damdred makes some good points... I'm not sure of my read on him anymore...
I'm pretty sure Damdred is town, which makes me wonder about Onegu. He's done nothing all game but push Damdred and has generally been useless...
I'm also pretty pissed at VE for the shit all he did D3, just rolled over and dipped out of the game. Did anyone who has played with VE see issues in my filter dive on him? I'm starting to rethink my read on him too given that move...
Nydus looks pretty bad too, but better than Onegu and honestly a little better than Milo in terms of posting (but not by much).
I'm fairly certain Fidei is town now as well, his reaction to EoD while a little overblown was pretty geniune. Though he is dead wrong, it is 100% part of Town's responsibility to keep themselves from being lynched, it's probably more important than finding scum tbh.
Dammit, Town is making this game much harder than it should be. Like at this point it's pretty clear that every wagon has been on town and that scum have just been able to add fuel to the right fires without ever needing to make much of a move themselves... which means it's not going to be easy to figure this out...
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Fuck, I'm too pissed off at how this game has been going (and work was pretty shitty tonight too) so I think I'm gunna hold off doing filters and shit till Day phase.
Hopefully mafia kills me tonight, I'm fairly over this game right now...
I'm not even sure who I'd suggest you guys look into if I do die, Onegu, VE, and Nydus are who I'm disliking most atm. I'd like to look into Scott a little more before I call him scum...
I'll be around if anyone wants to chat.
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@Scott
Lol I'll take one of those, I hope that's the conciliatory prize when Town looses one of these games.
You say VE didn't wig out, does him rolling over make sense for his Townplay? Like I'd honestly preffer if he had at least shared an opinion and called out people for being bad than just going "f this, I've done shit, vote choco".
I'm also unsure why you'd want to sheep me after those last 2 posts >.<
Like I'd be willing to sheep Damdred right now, but the last wagon he built killed our blue role (sorry Dam, I'm prob not gunna let that one go)
I think it's a safe bet that tonight it's one of Damdred, Scott, or I to die.
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Not really game related post, sorry.
+ Show Spoiler +I know where GB is... and when he see's this post I want him to know I'm not happy that we've been devoid of flavor text so that he can play in other games... I don't care how tempting the dark arts are, I want more flavor! 
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I'm honestly tempted to think VE is scum here now...
Kinda why I was asking you your opinion, but now you've got the paranoid voice in my head telling me your trying to pocket me... and it's kinda working...
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I'm also regretting going with my w/e read on Onegu and getting to this point in the game where we still aren't sure on him...
If he had done a little more with his reads before EoD I would be fine with him, but since he's just relentless pushin on Dam who I'm fairly certain is town I'm not sure...
I'm also not sure that actually makes Onegu scum from what I'm understanding of his style... Ugh
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On June 11 2015 16:13 scott31337 wrote:
I did a test on VE, it wasn't much but it showed enough to unvote him. Choco (conftown now) wanted to vote him though.
Humm GG also thought VE was potential scum as well, and so does Milo ...
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On June 11 2015 16:21 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2015 16:13 scott31337 wrote:
I did a test on VE, it wasn't much but it showed enough to unvote him. Choco (conftown now) wanted to vote him though. Humm GG also thought VE was potential scum as well, and so does Milo ...
No wait, this is terrible thinking... and is what happens when I'm tired and frustrated.
Both GG and Choco thought VE was scum through associations based on me being scum.
I'm prob just overreacting kus I thought VE would do more D3 than that shit he pulled... I dont like him for it, but I'm not convinced that makes him scum
Onegu is probably a much better person to look into, Nydus as well but they are really at about the same level. Least Nydus has given reads a few times and changed them based on whats going on in game...
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Ok, credit where credit is due... Onegu nails it here, but that doesn't help tell us if he is scum or not since scum would already know this...
On June 04 2015 04:15 Onegu wrote:
So here we go.
In Thailand Milo is Chocolate powder. So that means Chocolate and Milo must be on the same team. Since chocolate is so tasty they must both be town.
I missed this way back when, kinda a funny catch
On June 04 2015 07:03 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 06:46 Damdred wrote:
i'm not even going to read posts until I say this, how in the fuck can anyone in this game say that I don't have opinions stated?
I have literally given at least 3 town reads up to this point, have voiced opinions why 2 people are scummy and have stated why idon't like posts many times.
This is total shit. But you must have read a post to respond to a post... How does that work?
And from then on I think, Onegu is thinking Damdred is Scum...
On June 05 2015 04:58 Onegu wrote:
Phone posting
wont be here for deadline
##Vote Damdred
Reasons
Or maybe not...
On June 06 2015 10:33 Onegu wrote:
Chezniu rule is what is about to apply to me. And we are going to us it to get our lynch today on Shendelzare. Basicly it means I play so randomly that who wants push my lynch is scum. Chez rule is first to call him scum. Onegu rule is people continuing to push his lynch.
##Vote Shendelzare
Milo would be a ok vote also. Willing to vote either.
Humm that post is pretty bad since he's gone back on his weird townread on Milo and wants to vote Shen kus of his rule.
I think I kinda liked Onegu since he linked me that Champion game of Chezinu which finally helped me understand where GG was coming from, and also made me get some of Onegu's playstyle...
On June 06 2015 19:44 Onegu wrote:
Damdred falls under the Onegu rule also. He goes from I cant read onegu well IDK need more time. To onegu looks really bad, he best lynch for no reason.
GG
S-word
Damdred
Scumteam^
Eep 2 confirmed towns in that scumteam...
Then we get the longest post I expect to see from Onegu
On June 07 2015 14:10 Onegu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Onegu is another one of those players I can't read well currently. Hes just another policy lynch until he does more things, he can not post much as either alignment but seems to care more as scum but also is more lurky as scum. Sooo just need more time with him. Damdred writes this in his big post. This is after I voted him for no reason. Like if you read my post it just says reasons. Like when ritoky asked me for a filter to read I wrote I rng'd damdred. How does he think I was pushing his lynch at all. Then the only reason he scum reads me is because I didnt push his lynch but voted him. He knows I do this shit all the time. Damdreds reason for scum reading me is complete BS. S word Dude says he read my previous games and somehow came to some conclusions about them that relates to this game and that I am scum this game. Nope not possible with the games he said he read. The onegu rule isnt arbitrary. Basicly I play bad and troll for day one. Then on day 2 see who wants to lynch me and why. If people want to policy lynch me then they are likely town. But if they are saying I am scummy for trolling for bad reasons then they are scum pushing a mislynch for shit reasons. People are trying to shit on the onegu rule, but the people doing so are the scummy ones so dont listen to them listen to me. I already told you I am the best player in this game. I wasnt lying when I said if I rolled scum that this game would already be over. The fact is if I am getting pushed for lynch in the first 3 days then guess what I am town with scum trying to mislynch me because they know the longer the game goes on the better my reads get. Like GoT mafia where scum couldnt get my mislynched and I won the game in lylo. Thanks HF for catching the rest of the team.
And it's still mostly a bunch of bull besides his read about Damdred... which I'm still not sold on but man Onegu is
On June 07 2015 14:42 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2015 14:37 Shendelzare wrote:
Okay, now that is making a little more sense why you don't like Damdred, fine. But what do you think of him after the lynch? He posted some large case or something. Or do you just look at people how they view you and ignore everything else? Damdred is capable of making large cases as scum. Him leading the day one lynch is null for him. But yeah for day 2 I am only looking at how people interact with me. Ill read everything and file it away and when there are less players I will go more into other things. But for now I am confident in the Onegu rule.
Like there is good and bad stuff throughout his filter, but his Damdred read actually did start a lot earlier than I thought so maybe the Onegu rule is deeper than I was lead to believe...
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@Onegu
If town is gunna pull out of this one you need to dig deep for us man
Give me the best case you got on Damdred, or if that's just the case you've stated already; Give me the best townreads you have atm.
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On June 11 2015 16:30 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2015 16:17 Tictock wrote:
I'm also regretting going with my w/e read on Onegu and getting to this point in the game where we still aren't sure on him...
If he had done a little more with his reads before EoD I would be fine with him, but since he's just relentless pushin on Dam who I'm fairly certain is town I'm not sure...
I'm also not sure that actually makes Onegu scum from what I'm understanding of his style... Ugh Tell me more about this - I thought Onegu played this crap town game to be honest- We got triple lylo - and I hope you understand this. Who would you vote for or vigi if we could right now?
(also in reply to your question right after)
Right now? Like assuming we weren't going into LyLo and I had to pick right this moment... prob VE. Kus of what I stated before about not liking his D3.
In reality... I'm super unsure and want to wait till we see who gets NK'd to dig a little deeper.
Was only willing to do that quick and dirty filter dive on Onegu now kus I knew it would be quick and I'm pretty sure Onegu is alive tomorrow no matter what.
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EPT
