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Hm. I can't really say much against the concerns that Rels raised towards me since he is really following a point and is not being as hostile as bunnies is. However, now that I got time to fully read through Disinformation's post on bunnies
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/485267-newbie-student-mafia-x?page=17#325
I think the one thing we can say is that BM and Bunnies are not on the same side:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 22 2015 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Give me substance BM! I know you can do it!
Then again, bunnies did this:
On May 22 2015 17:10 Rels wrote:
27ninjabunnies
He put pressure on SL as a joke, and then use this pressure to obtain info seriously!
... or at least that what I thought. Rereading his fitler he didn't use this pressure at all and has nothing worthwhile in his posts.
While this is only Rels' interpretation of what happened, the push happened indeed. That would point to bunnies actively trying to find out about people's roles, indicating that he's probably a townie. That would match his aggressive pushing towards (by now) SL, BM and me.
I want to point out that Rels is the only guy thus far who is making rather neutral approaches to people, arguing in a very objective and solid way. That might make him a great townie or a greater scum member. I'm tending to townie however.
Then, I want to point out that batsnacks is limiting himself to short posts, not writing too much. Indicating that a) he's got no time or b) he wants to keep attention to him to a minimum. Can't imagine a c) but I'm not too experienced so maybe someone has an explanation.
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On May 23 2015 04:00 batsnacks wrote:
Also notice how boxerfred has thoughts on me that are totally separate from my hard townread on him. He is seriously top town. Mafia definitely ignores me, happy that I've been pocketed.
I feel like you're currently pocketing me lol (assuming that "to pocket someone" means to make me feel you're on my side).
On May 23 2015 03:49 disformation wrote:Also. Since you like my case but see a lot of town in bunnies, where do you place bunnies now? Who would you lynch as of now and why? 
I place bunnies at someone who's really trying to gather information, can't really tell if that's for scum or for town. Tending towards town somehow though.
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Breshke, I'm used to a setup where one vote is enough to decide. If vote counts are even, the mayor decides.
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I noticed that Rels and disinformation who are actively putting pressure als well as removing pressure from people never put pressure on each other. That might point to a connection between them which can be good or bad.
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BM kinda disappeared though, he's not in the original scope anymore and turned quiet, indicating he's quite glad the pushing stopped and doesn't want to risk a thing now.
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We need scott to step up and say a bit more.
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I think I'll vote for whoever is really inactive. That's like the safest way to not lose someone who's really valuable.
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On May 23 2015 09:22 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 09:18 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 23 2015 09:09 disformation wrote:On May 23 2015 08:56 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 23 2015 08:44 disformation wrote:On May 23 2015 08:37 27ninjabunnies wrote:
OMGUS? Did you call me mafia? I can't remember?
What connection between sulfurus and me?
I called sulfurus town. Not much to it.
I still need to read Sulfurus' recent posts to get a feel for if still town or not. But from early posts, yes. sulfurus seemed pretty town. I was implying a possible mafia connection between him and you via: On May 22 2015 11:43 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Sulfurus top town newbie read.
Not lynching for entire game.
Or maybe atleast 2 days Which is imo way stronger than you giving him a town read. Especially for that one post (which had a mistake in it). I see me giving a read on sulfurus, but has sulfurus actually given a read on me? *Reads sulfurus filter* Nope So not sure how you can see a connection, except a one sided connection. Top newbie read- he was a newbie, commented on a question I asked, and his answer seemed genuine at the time Hmm... you are right. I should demote you from main dish status and give that to BF. Think I got to excited about the possible TMI Slip by Sulfurus and the possibility of getting two mafia out of it, if there was a connection to you. Oh, well this bodes well for tomorrow. At least you people will have something to talk about. xD What TMI slip? Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 07:31 disformation wrote:Though why does SL saying that BM is lynch bait hold that much importance for you? Where did you get the miss from? On May 22 2015 13:27 sicklucker wrote:
bill murray is lynch bait.
definition - a guy who always looks scummy and gets lynched
not saying dont lynch him but keep that in mind Calling a BM a misslynch sounds a bit like Too Much Information to me. What do you think about bunnies and boxerfred? Why do you think so? Who would you vote for now? Why? Possible TMI slip. Basically calls BM a misslynch out of the blue. I want to know his reaction/what he has to say about that. You did read my case, right?
I don't think it's a TMI because he's keeping his options open: "not saying dont lynch him but keep that in mind"
However, I'm not taking this too serious because the beginning of the thread was a lot less serious, including my first posts (which led Rels to not like me). If it's TMI though it might go into him being closely linked to another town role.
To conclude this, I don't think SL is scum and lean him towards town.
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On May 23 2015 04:58 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 04:43 boxerfred wrote:On May 23 2015 03:49 disformation wrote:Also. Since you like my case but see a lot of town in bunnies, where do you place bunnies now? Who would you lynch as of now and why? I place bunnies at someone who's really trying to gather information, can't really tell if that's for scum or for town. Tending towards town somehow though. I want to see a bit more fire! Scum generally doesn't want the town to collect new information... unless said information turns out to be confusing or distracting for town. Do you get that feeling from bunnies? Also nothing on the second part of the question... still no idea who to vote for I guess? Keeping options as open as possible makes you look a bit scummy here. Though granted, I don't look much better right now. xD (for the record: I have a question for bunnies and another one for Sulfurus. Also still haven't seen much from plotspot and scott. Also suspicious of BM. Wouldn't lynch bunnies atm, the others could be candidates for that.)
Following your words, you're trying to subtly persuade me that bunnies is not scum:
"I place bunnies at someone who's really trying to gather information" vs. "Scum generally doesn't want the town to collect new information". Which would be strange since you made a case about him that made me put myself into the fire by initially unvoting BM and following your case.So either you're just testing the waters, thus confusing many people (pointing out you lean towards scum/sk) or you're dead serious and have a flaw in that post regarding my person.
So, no, I don't get that feeling from bunnies.
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Whoa, almost edited the above post: wanted to add that while I think disinformation is definitely "overcaring" for others, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's scum. I'm still tending to lynch one of the inactive guys.
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On May 23 2015 17:18 Breshke wrote:
Im about to head out but disfo was saying that Sulf TMI slipped not SL.
People are getting confused because he put his quotes in an odd place. The sl quote that is there is the one that sulf commented on saying that BM would be a misslynch. This infers BM is town because you don't misslynch scum.
But to be clear he did not mean SL slipped he ment sulf, read it with that in mind and it makes sense. I don't think it makes sulf scum but I can see how disfo thinks that.
Also BF i would be careful. Low activity does not always equal scum. Try find something more substantial if you can but scott would be a good pplace to vote if your going to vote inactivity. Remember you can always unvote so its good to vote early
Ah shit I misread it. Okay now I get disinformation's thought. But I can't see how that makes Sulf scum, too.
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Okay, I'm out for some more hours.
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I support the Rel being a townie thought.
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Okay. So ##vote scott31337 it is. I'll try to chime in before EOD to check if he posted something, however, I won't have the time to post for the next 6-8 hours. gonna be close.
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wow back just in time. so we still coinflip on scott - i don't like this since it's really ruining the game. Is that where modkills apply?
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:D
and with that, I go to sleep. see ya in a few hours!
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On May 24 2015 23:06 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2015 20:38 plotspot wrote:
hi guys, I've reached p23. p24 was where I first published my statistics. EoD was is p30, so I think I will take this too before I post a summary, as well as my reads on the remaining players for D1. Great, looking forward to that. Looking at the votes on scott: rels: pressures all the people with low/zero posts. did put a pressure vote on scott for basically only having 1-2 meh posts. scott tries to get rels off him, by saying he likes rels a lot. rels didn't seem impressed. scott never returns, so rels just keeps his vote on him. breskhe: also voting for doing jack. but also backs it up with a meta read. Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 12:21 Breshke wrote:
##Vote scott31337
I agree scott needs to lift his game. So does Bill murray to a degree both these people feel like coinflips at the moment. Like especially scott from just from looking at the three other games he has played seemed to have achieved the longest filter in his 1 town game even though he was only alive for one day compared to his scum games where he survived to D3 yet had a smaller filter. Oh and he also calls out scott earlier: Show nested quote +On May 22 2015 17:09 Breshke wrote:I also kind of don't like this On May 22 2015 12:00 scott31337 wrote:On May 22 2015 11:49 plotspot wrote:
oh lawl game has started, but I have to go to sleep now, see you tomorrow
*celebrate good times come on* What kind of post is this? You weren't even able to post any original thoughts before you left? When scott leaves right after it after having only one other post. Feels scummy Liking breshke a lot looking at this. sicklucker: votes batsnacks, quickly drops that vote. Either a joke vote, or realizing that this wagon won't go anywhere? Looks at the two available wagons, realizes that scott looks worse than me, throws his vote on him. Says N1 that he would have tried to get me lynched instead of scott, if he had been around EoD1. Not sure what to make of him atm. =/ batsnacks: had an earlier vote on scott, after looking at bunnies, sulf and scott. decided to vote scott out of that bunch. Then switches to sicklucker with that one super irritating post. TBH I was thinking batsnacks and sicklucker were just trolling each other there. But sicklucker is still going on about that? Well, batsnacks drops this vote on sicklucker super fast and votes scott with: Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 20:14 batsnacks wrote:
In all seriousness I can't vote SL or anyone for that matter over scott if he's not going to post before deadline. Even what he has is scummy. Since this aligns with his previous vote/read and the sicklucker vote was just a troll, I think this looks legit. boxerfred: annouces that he will vote for an inactive person with: Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 17:03 boxerfred wrote:
I think I'll vote for whoever is really inactive. That's like the safest way to not lose someone who's really valuable. goes ahead and votes scott: Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 21:41 boxerfred wrote:
Okay. So ##vote scott31337 it is. I'll try to chime in before EOD to check if he posted something, however, I won't have the time to post for the next 6-8 hours. gonna be close. Expresses some doubts here: Show nested quote +On May 24 2015 06:47 boxerfred wrote:
wow back just in time. so we still coinflip on scott - i don't like this since it's really ruining the game. Is that where modkills apply? So... he goes from "I'll vote for whoever is really inactiv", which can imply "regardless of alignment" to "oh wow I really don't like to coinflip on the most inactive person ever." Not really liking this. boxerfred, I would love to explain your train of thought on this. If someone arrives at other conclusions from the votes, I would be down to talk about that. Will do some chores now so: 
That's quickly done: between me voting on inactive and me saying expressing I'm not too sure about a coinflip lay some posts elaborating on why coinflipping is doubtable.
Why did you jump the train in the end?
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On May 25 2015 03:38 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2015 03:05 boxerfred wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 24 2015 23:06 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2015 20:38 plotspot wrote:
hi guys, I've reached p23. p24 was where I first published my statistics. EoD was is p30, so I think I will take this too before I post a summary, as well as my reads on the remaining players for D1. Great, looking forward to that. Looking at the votes on scott: rels: pressures all the people with low/zero posts. did put a pressure vote on scott for basically only having 1-2 meh posts. scott tries to get rels off him, by saying he likes rels a lot. rels didn't seem impressed. scott never returns, so rels just keeps his vote on him. breskhe: also voting for doing jack. but also backs it up with a meta read. Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 12:21 Breshke wrote:
##Vote scott31337
I agree scott needs to lift his game. So does Bill murray to a degree both these people feel like coinflips at the moment. Like especially scott from just from looking at the three other games he has played seemed to have achieved the longest filter in his 1 town game even though he was only alive for one day compared to his scum games where he survived to D3 yet had a smaller filter. Oh and he also calls out scott earlier: Show nested quote +On May 22 2015 17:09 Breshke wrote:I also kind of don't like this On May 22 2015 12:00 scott31337 wrote:On May 22 2015 11:49 plotspot wrote:
oh lawl game has started, but I have to go to sleep now, see you tomorrow
*celebrate good times come on* What kind of post is this? You weren't even able to post any original thoughts before you left? When scott leaves right after it after having only one other post. Feels scummy Liking breshke a lot looking at this. sicklucker: votes batsnacks, quickly drops that vote. Either a joke vote, or realizing that this wagon won't go anywhere? Looks at the two available wagons, realizes that scott looks worse than me, throws his vote on him. Says N1 that he would have tried to get me lynched instead of scott, if he had been around EoD1. Not sure what to make of him atm. =/ batsnacks: had an earlier vote on scott, after looking at bunnies, sulf and scott. decided to vote scott out of that bunch. Then switches to sicklucker with that one super irritating post. TBH I was thinking batsnacks and sicklucker were just trolling each other there. But sicklucker is still going on about that? Well, batsnacks drops this vote on sicklucker super fast and votes scott with: Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 20:14 batsnacks wrote:
In all seriousness I can't vote SL or anyone for that matter over scott if he's not going to post before deadline. Even what he has is scummy. Since this aligns with his previous vote/read and the sicklucker vote was just a troll, I think this looks legit. boxerfred: annouces that he will vote for an inactive person with: Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 17:03 boxerfred wrote:
I think I'll vote for whoever is really inactive. That's like the safest way to not lose someone who's really valuable. goes ahead and votes scott: Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 21:41 boxerfred wrote:
Okay. So ##vote scott31337 it is. I'll try to chime in before EOD to check if he posted something, however, I won't have the time to post for the next 6-8 hours. gonna be close. Expresses some doubts here: Show nested quote +On May 24 2015 06:47 boxerfred wrote:
wow back just in time. so we still coinflip on scott - i don't like this since it's really ruining the game. Is that where modkills apply? So... he goes from "I'll vote for whoever is really inactiv", which can imply "regardless of alignment" to "oh wow I really don't like to coinflip on the most inactive person ever." Not really liking this. boxerfred, I would love to explain your train of thought on this. If someone arrives at other conclusions from the votes, I would be down to talk about that. Will do some chores now so: That's quickly done: between me voting on inactive and me saying expressing I'm not too sure about a coinflip lay some posts elaborating on why coinflipping is doubtable. Hm. Yeah, there were a few people talking about how lynching inactives is a coinflip and not really good. Since you only mention that once in your whole filter and then still go ahead and vote scott I am not sure, if I am willing to let that slide this easy. Good but very expected question. I explained it in this post: + Show Spoiler +On May 24 2015 01:03 disformation wrote:Okay. As per pre game excuse I will leave in about a hour and be back 1-2 hours after EoD. While I still think we need more pressure on Sulfurus, because he hasn't done anything after his intial posts. Only came back to admit to a mistake I found in one of his early posts and left right after. Hasn't responded at all to the further inquiries and the case I put on him. All in all this makes me highly suspicious. But I have to leave soon and I can't see this wagon getting anywhere, especially with me gone, since I seem to be the only one willing to put pressure on him. My other main suspects were a) boxerfred, to whom I have warmed up on...(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/485267-newbie-student-mafia-x?page=28#543). Was going to say the same about b) bunnies, but I dislike that she didn't explain why she is still voting me and didn't touch my recent posts at all... at least her motivations seemed to be towny when I interacted with her. c) BM should also have more pressure on him for falling of incredibly hard... d) That basically leaves me with scott who hasn't done jack all game... But since I won't be around and I don't want to waste my vote I will have to vote on a wagon that looks like it will hit something. So I have to choose between disformation and scott. I know the alignment of one of those.  I really! hope this won't be a repeat of last game though... NSM IX: we basically on had one super wagon on scott D1. He disappears. Comes into the thread like 1hour before deadline, posts a super towny post along with a OMGUS on me. Gets lynched anyway, flips town. Sad times. Super sry for not being around for EoD, had hoped this would start one day later.  To summarize: 1) As per pre game excuse I was going to be away the 5 hours leading to EoD. 2) Since nobody else was in the thread at a time (look at the timestamps), there was no way to get a decent wagon starting. And throwing away votes (looking at ticktoc here) is not going to help. 3) scott was on my suspect list anyway (and has been basically all game). 4) As the only other wagon at the time was me, another vote on scott made it harder to lynch me, since my absence could have been used to get more people on the disformation wagon, without me being able to defend against that. Note that this is pretty much NAI, as neither mafia nor town players like to get lynched.
You start tryharding on me. I couldn't say too much on your argumentation before (when Rels started to call out my "I'm a newb" posts) because I saw myself in a bad light and thus tried to do better, which worked - you started to warm up on me. If you still lean me towards scum, I have to assume that you're actively trying to get me lynched, making you SK or scum. So far, I've been really defending myself in a passive way but by now I feel like you're way too aggressive towards other persons, while you keep defending yourself with lots of smileys, trying to make people think positive about you. You accept arguments from others with smiley faces too, acting like you're a gentleman who, even in disagreement, acknowledges the effort/quality/whatever in his opponent's post. You're not a newbie and thus far, you managed to not get yourself into the line of fire very well.
So, let me try to get a pick on your arguments towards voting scott:
My posts directly go towards your 4 arguments why you voted scott.
1) Not being 5hrs basically means "well I have to vote someone so I better pick". The easiest, cheapest and lowest risk (same move I took..) was voting Scott. I even voted him roughly 4-5 hours before you. Your last minute vote (and since you stated you'd not be there at EOD plus five hours before makes it that) on Scott could very well imply that you're a scum member and, knowing that Scott was scum too, you tried to withhold your vote for as long as possible. Your vote had been on Sulfurus before - which at that point was like the safest pick to choose if you do not want to get pinned down on your opinion on someone.
2) Was there? How about users not being logged in? Since I have literally 0 experience with the TL form of mafia, I can't tell if that actually indicates something. At least for me, when I'm on mobile, I do not auto-login. I rather lurk the thread and read, trying to set up arguments for my later reply. I never type from mobile though.
3) Oh wow. Why was scott on your suspect list? Because of his inactivity if I recall correctly. Not because of any real clue, any words from him or even a read that someone else really had. Saying "I vote Scott for inactivity and jump the train because he's on my suspect list because he's inactive" is a recursional argument that does not really make sense. I agree that this is my weakest argument thus far, but I think that putting someone of whom you KNOW that he's scum (presuming you're scum ofc) on your suspect list from the very beginning is, speaking of long-term, an intelligent thing to do (especially if you can check your mafia qt and by that know that scott is not just inactive, but obviously not even lurking). Would make you look great if you put a fellow scum member on your "suspect" list in later rounds.
4) Wow. You couldn't know that Scott was scum (...), so you jumped his train because you thought your own train would go on? Why? Rels is pretty much behind you, and so was I tbh. You might notice that while you keep going at me, up to this point I never really said something against you - and why would I, your posts are really good. However, when it comes to me, your posts start to lack actual indications of guilt and lend towards setting up a train on me for d2. I don't like that at all, sorry. And then: after all, lynching inactive was a coinflip. So you (as a townie) take a coinflip because "well hopefully I'll survive"? While no real accusations towards scott were pending besides not being there? Also, I assume you were knowing of your absence in before, so you could have very well tried to a) derail your own train or b) try to start another train. But you kept going back and forth, stating "I dislike, I warm up on", and so on. I don't like this. You're testing the waters all over, putting a toe in the sea, but not commiting to anything. Seems like a survivor role to me which screams for SK (or maybe vigi to find a potential target). At this point, I'm rather convinced that you are either sk, scum or a townie who has a horrible read on me.
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There's a "there" missing in my 1). I meant "not being there 5 hours"
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"I am 100% town, scott is a lot less % town. I would make this play every day, every game."
That's blatant. Especially when there's 3 people not thinking like that and voting you on day 1. Even assuming that the 3 votes did not contain 2 scum votes.
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EPT
