EPT[D] Activity and Town-Play - Page 13
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
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Tere
United Kingdom225 Posts
One of the things that is heartening though, coming to the site, is seeing so many people rereading and filter diving, and that's something that is appealing, particularly coming from a site where the meta was that many people barely read the thread at all. It's better by far to be in this direction, I think. I guess I will try posting in my normal sort of volume and see if I get lynched for lurking or not  | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On February 16 2015 04:22 Tere wrote: From an outsider's perspective, I tried to read Imperial and gave up at about Day 4 I think. The post volume of that was quite terrifying! One of the things that is heartening though, coming to the site, is seeing so many people rereading and filter diving, and that's something that is appealing, particularly coming from a site where the meta was that many people barely read the thread at all. It's better by far to be in this direction, I think. I guess I will try posting in my normal sort of volume and see if I get lynched for lurking or not We'll be glad to | ||
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Tere
United Kingdom225 Posts
Mind you you lot seem to do 48 / 24 and I am more used to 24/12 so I guess my site meta will be different anyhow :D | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
I'm not even getting on the forums anymore because I still haven't got a new phone. Anyway, here is my opinion: people are giving too much priority to "stablish their innocence" rather to "hunt mafia". Or they are just bored and want to shit chat (me). IMO, the important thing here is to reevaluate town's objectives and how to achieve it. "Lynch mafia" is too generical. Will you be able to lynch mafia if you can't even read the game? No. Will you be able to lynch mafia just because you're spamming the thread? No. So there is no point in spamming. People are playing the game alone. They post because they post. They don't have a clear objective when they post. And that's the problem. That's why the question "How am I helping town posting this?" is so important. Another question that is important is "How can I give this information with less words?" and "Is this really an important information?". But considering "filter length" will continue high, we have to change what we understand by "activity" Activity isn't posting a lot. Activity is clearly generating discussion or continuously trying to solve the game by re-reading it and reevaluating stuff. So, a mafia can have a huge filter length and be idle, because he isn't even trying to solve the game. Anyway, just putting some thoughts here. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On February 17 2015 13:32 GlowingBear wrote: Anyway, here is my opinion: people are giving too much priority to "stablish their innocence" rather to "hunt mafia". Or they are just bored and want to shit chat (me). [...] People are playing the game alone. They post because they post. They don't have a clear objective when they post. And that's the problem. That's why the question "How am I helping town posting this?" is so important. Another question that is important is "How can I give this information with less words?" and "Is this really an important information?". Spot-on, I'm discussing this issue elsewhere (can't link it though) and I agree completely, especially with the boldface parts. I'm learning a lot about my play from this realization. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
Sometimes it works | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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justanothertownie
16325 Posts
On February 17 2015 15:35 Eden1892 wrote: Spot-on, I'm discussing this issue elsewhere (can't link it though) and I agree completely, especially with the boldface parts. I'm learning a lot about my play from this realization. Not spot-on. If more people would actually establish their innocence then towns would have a much much easier time. People who can't be mislynched (like you in Horn) are the biggest pain in the ass for mafia. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
also some players (like me) just like to be chatty/have a joke sometimes. Which may not be "pure" in terms of the game, but I find playing mafia to be quite a social experience, and I wouldn't enjoy it so much if I couldn't enjoy people's company while I'm playing. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12971 Posts
On February 17 2015 20:09 marvellosity wrote: it's not really one of those either/or things, because one of (if not the) best ways to establish your innocence is to be obviously and genuinely hunting for mafia. also some players (like me) just like to be chatty/have a joke sometimes. Which may not be "pure" in terms of the game, but I find playing mafia to be quite a social experience, and I wouldn't enjoy it so much if I couldn't enjoy people's company while I'm playing. This, half the fun if not more in playing mafia for me is messing about with people. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On February 17 2015 19:52 justanothertownie wrote: Not spot-on. If more people would actually establish their innocence then towns would have a much much easier time. People who can't be mislynched (like you in Horn) are the biggest pain in the ass for mafia. I disagree with you. People who can't be mislynched are easy to be used by mafia when they have a wrong read and a mislynch is easier to occur. All mafia has to do, then, is to shoot this guy at night. On February 17 2015 20:09 marvellosity wrote: it's not really one of those either/or things, because one of (if not the) best ways to establish your innocence is to be obviously and genuinely hunting for mafia. also some players (like me) just like to be chatty/have a joke sometimes. Which may not be "pure" in terms of the game, but I find playing mafia to be quite a social experience, and I wouldn't enjoy it so much if I couldn't enjoy people's company while I'm playing. Although it's the best way to stablish innocence, is also the more exhaustive one. It's much easier to not being mislynched just because you have a 40 pages filter. In example, Imperial Mafia. And yes, I agree on the chatty thing. That's how it works with me too. But although it is fun, it is detrimental to proper analysis IMO. Maybe if town distinguishes their reads posts from interaction posts by formatting differently, it would be a huge help to town. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
And yes, I agree on the chatty thing. That's how it works with me too. But although it is fun, it is detrimental to proper analysis IMO. If marv and I can do it then you guys just need to step up and do it properly if you want to use it. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
In practice though I don't think this tends to happen as much as we'd like to think | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Actively scumhunting? Easy to fake. Having a huge filter? I'll post everytime I breath. You managed to be unlynchable? Congratulations! But you mislynched in LYLO and you lost the game. Perfect. On February 18 2015 01:17 Holyflare wrote: If marv and I can do it then you guys just need to step up and do it properly if you want to use it. I'm not saying that you should stop being active. And nobody needs to step up. You and marv can be able to read the game thoroughly, but a lot can't because it's cluttered. So, you had all the good analysis, but couldn't convince lost townies. GG again. I'm trying to suggest a way to play optimally. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Actively scumhunting is not easy to fake at all, beeteedubs. At least, not when town expects a certain quality of scumhunting from you. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On February 18 2015 01:53 Holyflare wrote: I don't get what the problem is if we just lynch mafia??? there's nothing more optimal than that and we most definitely convince people to lynch the mafia and we have huge filters and still get lynched when we are mafia too so I don't see how it's particularly difficult Hmm, let me try to get clearer... You can be active and readable Marv also. There are people that can't. Me, for example. You and marv doesn't post just to post. You post with objective. But a lot of townies doesn't. These townies are doing that because they want to have a big filter and stablish their innocence by it. And this is wrong IMO. It clutters the thread with useless information. I don't have the patience to read 30+ new pages of game after I spend one entire day without playing. And it fucks my gameplay. It's harder to keep track and, therefore, is detrimental to town. Other point that I'm trying to explain is that is more important to scumhunt than to establish innocence. Because Mafia is a timeclock to town. They have to lynch mafia BEFORE they can properly stablish innocence. You can win a game lynching mafia but you can't win a game by only establishing your innocence. Like, what's the "counter-attack" scum has against a universal townread? Kill him at night. What's the "counter-attack" scum has against a scumlynch? None. Playing optimally is a myth. Yet we can discuss what is playing optimally to further improve gameplay, right?  | ||
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justanothertownie
16325 Posts
On February 18 2015 01:25 Eden1892 wrote: In theory yeah it'd be great if all the townies could be obvious and unlynchable, and if they get there through high-volume posting, ok, great In practice though I don't think this tends to happen as much as we'd like to think I never said that posting in high volumes is needed to become unlynchable. On February 18 2015 02:33 GlowingBear wrote: Hmm, let me try to get clearer... You can be active and readable Marv also. There are people that can't. Me, for example. You and marv doesn't post just to post. You post with objective. But a lot of townies doesn't. These townies are doing that because they want to have a big filter and stablish their innocence by it. And this is wrong IMO. It clutters the thread with useless information. I don't have the patience to read 30+ new pages of game after I spend one entire day without playing. And it fucks my gameplay. It's harder to keep track and, therefore, is detrimental to town. Other point that I'm trying to explain is that is more important to scumhunt than to establish innocence. Because Mafia is a timeclock to town. They have to lynch mafia BEFORE they can properly stablish innocence. You can win a game lynching mafia but you can't win a game by only establishing your innocence. Like, what's the "counter-attack" scum has against a universal townread? Kill him at night. What's the "counter-attack" scum has against a scumlynch? None. Playing optimally is a myth. Yet we can discuss what is playing optimally to further improve gameplay, right? The bolded is a clear contradiction. If you acknowledge that people can post much without losing their objective (and there are quite a few people who can and will do that) and you still can't be bothered to read the thread when you took a break from the game then you are the problem and nothing else. Of course you can win a game by lynching mafia but you can only lynch mafia if you not only identified them but are also able to convince town to actually kill them which is only possible or at least much easier if people think that you are town. Not to mention how much easier it is to find mafia if townies prove their innocence. Of course scum can shoot obvious townies in the night but if there are several obvious townies they can't shoot them all. But they ARE running out of options for mislynches. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
I already tried it once and dedicated my post clearing townies and catching mafia!Chroma somewhere but then all the other townies were whiny bitches that weren't as gifted as I was and I had to change my style back to mass posting due to peer pressure. | ||
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