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[T] Jack of All Trades Mafia - Page 39

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kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
March 03 2015 15:56 GMT
#761
On March 04 2015 00:51 AT.Epiphany wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2015 00:43 kitaman27 wrote:
Spirits gain points per X hours. Those points can be spent buying roles for their faction. They also have a few other powers to influence the game, but they cannot interact directly.


Upon reading the thread, this was the first thing that I noticed. Typically town will benefit from roles more than mafia. I have no evidence that it would benefit us to maximize the length of day one, but if I had to guess I would probably say that the more points the spirit gains before the night cycle the better. The challenge would be how do we get this to happen? I'd be in favor of some sort of policy where we all agree not to shoot until an hour before the actual deadline, but for this to work everyone would need to be on board and willing to go after anyone who breaks the policy. Being realistic, there is always going to be one townie who decides to yolo the shot immediately, but I'll put the idea out there anyways. Despite this, I am also playing with the idea of taking the selfish role and insta-shooting like sandroba suggests just to have the control if I feel somewhat confident.

I like Tube's suggestion about the shot vote count, though that doesn't say much about tube the player. The biggest problem with this format is that if town makes it clear that player X is getting shot, player X simply shoots first, but that's not a problem if we just follow it for the first 22 hours.

To get the rest of the policy out of the way, I'll be guarding the button unless I have a reason to choose one of the other options. From a setup perspective, I'd put the button in the "manipulative" category where a certain player or faction has to convince others to blindly perform an action, which tends to get ugly.

Ninja's should be shooting early and often. From my experience, a ninja very rarely locates another ninja through analysis. It's mostly winning by staying alive longer. By shooting early, you maximize your chance to eliminate the other ninja's vest an open them up to a night kill. Furthermore, if you happen to hit a player with your first shot and they live, odds are you've probably won right there. Dying with two shots in hand is pretty worthless. The reason I'm saying this is that shooting early also benefits town because the mafia kp can be reduced by reducing their numbers and flipping the first mafia always snowballs the game. Ninja isn't an anti-town 3p like serial killer so we can both benefit in setups like these by working together.

Epiphany had the weak intro post feeling obligated to explain why he wasn't posting. He mentions that he is a newbie several times, even before the Mocsta post, yet then starts talking about geript saying that:

"Every single time he's been Mafia he's far more aggressive and confrontational than he is as Town. Moreover his mafia games have him rapidly suggesting lynch targets and putting out scumpiles pretty quickly. As a mafia (and not as a Town) he invariably pushes multiple targets and acts aggressively."

I could be wrong, but this would imply that he probably isn't a newbie. I don't have a problem with smurfs, but the likely deception seems scummy. Also, he needs to be less angry

On March 03 2015 21:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
batsnacks why did you want to wish good luck to mafia?


This one I found a bit odd. It's fine to joke with him about being shot, but then following up with another question as if he is actually trying to trap him here either means he is attempting to look like he is scum hunting or is feeling really, really optimistic.

On March 03 2015 15:35 IAmRobik wrote:
lol @ the nuked stuff. I thought he was suicide bomber or something like that trying to detonate. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL


Heh so you thought a host was able to modify the appearance of the TeamLiquid forums for his mafia game? Right....

Koshi's idea to policy a day one shot is decent in theory to deter a poor shot, but it probably won't go anywhere.

Toads suggestion that he doesn't want to be too townish is pretty silly. You can't justify that with a straight face.

Damdred seems scummy enough to warrant keeping an eye on. Can't point to anything in specific though.

I didn't really see Obi as the clear suspect upon my first read through like Sepulchre suggests. Sepulchre comes off as a reasonable individual though.

Hopefully I'll have a better idea for a few shot targets before the 24 hour mark.



I mentioned newbie because this particular bit was brought up by Geript in a highly insulting manner. Seriously read the stuff geript wrote, it's probably more angry than me, and what's more entirely unprovoked personal attacks from him. That's why I was angry for a while, which I no longer am.


Were you familiar with geript's mafia play prior to the game starting or is that something that you took the time to research once it began? If it is the latter, was there something that geript posted that triggered you to do some research or was he someone you just picked out and happened to find evidence when reading his past games that led you to your conclusion?
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
AT.Epiphany
Profile Joined February 2015
India117 Posts
March 03 2015 15:59 GMT
#762
On March 04 2015 00:56 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2015 00:51 AT.Epiphany wrote:
On March 04 2015 00:43 kitaman27 wrote:
Spirits gain points per X hours. Those points can be spent buying roles for their faction. They also have a few other powers to influence the game, but they cannot interact directly.


Upon reading the thread, this was the first thing that I noticed. Typically town will benefit from roles more than mafia. I have no evidence that it would benefit us to maximize the length of day one, but if I had to guess I would probably say that the more points the spirit gains before the night cycle the better. The challenge would be how do we get this to happen? I'd be in favor of some sort of policy where we all agree not to shoot until an hour before the actual deadline, but for this to work everyone would need to be on board and willing to go after anyone who breaks the policy. Being realistic, there is always going to be one townie who decides to yolo the shot immediately, but I'll put the idea out there anyways. Despite this, I am also playing with the idea of taking the selfish role and insta-shooting like sandroba suggests just to have the control if I feel somewhat confident.

I like Tube's suggestion about the shot vote count, though that doesn't say much about tube the player. The biggest problem with this format is that if town makes it clear that player X is getting shot, player X simply shoots first, but that's not a problem if we just follow it for the first 22 hours.

To get the rest of the policy out of the way, I'll be guarding the button unless I have a reason to choose one of the other options. From a setup perspective, I'd put the button in the "manipulative" category where a certain player or faction has to convince others to blindly perform an action, which tends to get ugly.

Ninja's should be shooting early and often. From my experience, a ninja very rarely locates another ninja through analysis. It's mostly winning by staying alive longer. By shooting early, you maximize your chance to eliminate the other ninja's vest an open them up to a night kill. Furthermore, if you happen to hit a player with your first shot and they live, odds are you've probably won right there. Dying with two shots in hand is pretty worthless. The reason I'm saying this is that shooting early also benefits town because the mafia kp can be reduced by reducing their numbers and flipping the first mafia always snowballs the game. Ninja isn't an anti-town 3p like serial killer so we can both benefit in setups like these by working together.

Epiphany had the weak intro post feeling obligated to explain why he wasn't posting. He mentions that he is a newbie several times, even before the Mocsta post, yet then starts talking about geript saying that:

"Every single time he's been Mafia he's far more aggressive and confrontational than he is as Town. Moreover his mafia games have him rapidly suggesting lynch targets and putting out scumpiles pretty quickly. As a mafia (and not as a Town) he invariably pushes multiple targets and acts aggressively."

I could be wrong, but this would imply that he probably isn't a newbie. I don't have a problem with smurfs, but the likely deception seems scummy. Also, he needs to be less angry

On March 03 2015 21:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
batsnacks why did you want to wish good luck to mafia?


This one I found a bit odd. It's fine to joke with him about being shot, but then following up with another question as if he is actually trying to trap him here either means he is attempting to look like he is scum hunting or is feeling really, really optimistic.

On March 03 2015 15:35 IAmRobik wrote:
lol @ the nuked stuff. I thought he was suicide bomber or something like that trying to detonate. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL


Heh so you thought a host was able to modify the appearance of the TeamLiquid forums for his mafia game? Right....

Koshi's idea to policy a day one shot is decent in theory to deter a poor shot, but it probably won't go anywhere.

Toads suggestion that he doesn't want to be too townish is pretty silly. You can't justify that with a straight face.

Damdred seems scummy enough to warrant keeping an eye on. Can't point to anything in specific though.

I didn't really see Obi as the clear suspect upon my first read through like Sepulchre suggests. Sepulchre comes off as a reasonable individual though.

Hopefully I'll have a better idea for a few shot targets before the 24 hour mark.



I mentioned newbie because this particular bit was brought up by Geript in a highly insulting manner. Seriously read the stuff geript wrote, it's probably more angry than me, and what's more entirely unprovoked personal attacks from him. That's why I was angry for a while, which I no longer am.


Were you familiar with geript's mafia play prior to the game starting or is that something that you took the time to research once it began? If it is the latter, was there something that geript posted that triggered you to do some research or was he someone you just picked out and happened to find evidence when reading his past games that led you to your conclusion?


I did the research because of geript's almost immediate hectoring and abuse of me from the moment I made my first post.
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
March 03 2015 15:59 GMT
#763
I'm pretty positive he said he looked up his games, because I recall people criticising him for that.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
March 03 2015 16:02 GMT
#764
Kita and LS, since you're both here, let's talk about Damdred.

I'm TRing SL and he found something off with Damdred as well. I had a hunch on him earlier since he commented on my opening WAY after others expressed reservation but my latest concern is his read on you, LS. It reeks too much of the way he tried pushing you in Titanic, and he was scum that game. He should know how tentative you sound which is probably why I'm leaning scum on him. Thoughts?
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
March 03 2015 16:05 GMT
#765
On March 03 2015 23:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yes Breshke has a really high chance of being mafia here but that would also probably mean Koshi is town which i am not willing to believe yet. Kosi's posting hasn't gotten any better he is just making some weird comments.

Breshke is posting and has thoughts and stuff. I'd bet heavily that guys town. Look at his scum games.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
March 03 2015 16:05 GMT
#766
Here is why your mom is mafia.

His case on me. Read the conversation between us. Not only did i effectively debunk every single piece of his argument with actual reasoning i showed why his case is 100% a forced case that takes things out of context and/or does only account the things that pushes his agenda. Fuck i am really bad at finding the correct words and i am sorry for it but just read the argument between me and him. He literally made a case based on a couple of posts that are (1) towntells for me based on meta and (2) he ignored the rest of my filter which speaks directly against his case.

His case on HtS. Same thing here as above. HtS was asked to give a read on someone. She did, yet your mom somehow turns this into "you fabricated a read because you needed to give one". It is at least as likely that HtS gave the read as town because SHE WAS ASKED TO!! She answered a question "what do you think my alignment is". Why is it impossible this is the case here? That -- for a vet player -- should be at worst a null-tell.

Now those are his only scumreads in this game. Both are fake. So very fucking fake and badly reasoned.

On top of that he refuses to talk about Koshi at all.There is absolutely zero references to Koshi in his filter. Why is this scummy? Because Koshi should be 100% town for this guy. First of all there is no fucking way both Koshi and HtS are mafia in this game because that would mean mafia is not pushing anything, which is a no-go (note this was before the Breshke thing went up). Second, he scumreads we, and i was pushing a Koshi shot at that time. There is no way both of me and Koshi are mafia, so if he scumreads me as strongly as he implies to that should mean he 100% thinks Koshi is town.

Yet he makes no attempt to defend Koshi. Townies do not wanna shoot townies. Especially in this case every smart player defends all of their townreads whenever someone puts them up for being shot. Why? Because it gives mafia options. Read the next sentence carefully: If we have like 8 (or even 6) shot targets at the 24h mark, do you think there is any chance we are going to catch mafia in case mafia gets the shot? Right.

Yet your mom cannot even say "Koshi is town, because i think you are mafia, and HtS is mafia, neither of you is mafia with Koshi. Don't fucking shoot Koshi". That would be the natural thing to say as town, BECAUSE YOU WANT TO TELL THE OTHER TOWNIES NOT TO SHOOT TOWN!

Now i don't know if this is because he doesn't want to look bad if Koshi flips mafia, or if he actually wants Koshi shot and not tell people to shoot him as Koshi is a good player as town. But it doesn't matter, Koshi can be dealt with later on.

your mom is mafia and should be killed with a bullet asap!!!
table for two on a tv tray
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
March 03 2015 16:06 GMT
#767
I actually retract my mafiaread on HTS a little. She's down to #3, while bre...something moves up to slot #1

##vote: Breshke
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
LightningStrike
Profile Joined February 2011
United States14277 Posts
March 03 2015 16:15 GMT
#768
On March 04 2015 01:02 Half the Sky wrote:
Kita and LS, since you're both here, let's talk about Damdred.

I'm TRing SL and he found something off with Damdred as well. I had a hunch on him earlier since he commented on my opening WAY after others expressed reservation but my latest concern is his read on you, LS. It reeks too much of the way he tried pushing you in Titanic, and he was scum that game. He should know how tentative you sound which is probably why I'm leaning scum on him. Thoughts?

Damdred is sorta reminding me of Titanic for now on his push on me but he replaced into that game so I didn't get to see his Day 1 as Mafia except for Imperial when he claimed Mafia Day 1 (I don't know why people didn't lynch him for that) but he he looked okay there after that. Also I had learned my lesson to not blind sheep Damdred after Titanic when he was Mafia with the way he made a good case on someone. Also he complained earlier about me asking for help because honestly my reads were horrible in Titanic and he should of remember how bad my reads were when I had 2 mafias as my top towns that game (rsoultin and Damdred). Slight scumread on Damdred for now but he needs to bleed town this game to convince me that he's town considering what happened in Titanic.
May the next light shine/Former #1 Alliance LoL fan/ Current Teamliquid LoL Fan
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
March 03 2015 16:16 GMT
#769
On March 04 2015 01:15 LightningStrike wrote:
Also I had learned my lesson to not blind sheep Damdred after Titanic when he was Mafia with the way he made a good case on someone. terrible case on me .

table for two on a tv tray
LightningStrike
Profile Joined February 2011
United States14277 Posts
March 03 2015 16:18 GMT
#770
On March 04 2015 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2015 01:15 LightningStrike wrote:
Also I had learned my lesson to not blind sheep Damdred after Titanic when he was Mafia with the way he made a good case on someone. terrible case on me .


I was refering to his case on you in that game sorry I didn't clarify. Also his case on me was pretty bad that game though lol....
May the next light shine/Former #1 Alliance LoL fan/ Current Teamliquid LoL Fan
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
March 03 2015 16:19 GMT
#771
I was referring to the fact the case was terrible and not good.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
March 03 2015 16:19 GMT
#772
Like he even said in the obs QT the case was terrible haha :D
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
March 03 2015 16:22 GMT
#773
Like i DO know when the cases made on me are mafia motivated rather than dumb townies when i am town.
That is why mafia usually calls me bad (to discredit me) rather than mafia.

your mom's case is 100% mafia motivated. 100%.
one.. hundred... percent...
table for two on a tv tray
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
March 03 2015 16:22 GMT
#774
I'm more wait and see on Damdred.

@Rayn. Think about the sprirts. And think about Ssndroba. That's all I'm going to say.
Koshi is dead to me.
Kita. Idk. I just idk. There was one point he made that I really liked but I forgot it. Idk. Hard to focus.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
March 03 2015 16:24 GMT
#775
On March 03 2015 08:06 Half the Sky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2015 08:01 Fecalfeast wrote:
CAN I ROLL SOMETHING ELSE FOR ONCE?


This is quite interesting. We either have a scum player not happy at his alignment or a townie that is just bored of being town...


On March 03 2015 08:31 Half the Sky wrote:
YM, it's called a tone read. And I've played with Fecalfeast before. I also find it amusing you say my posting was forced considering I posted on impulse, and it was the first thing that came to my mind.


I know this is kinda backtracking since I wasn't around at the start, but if he is mafia, then the post would be a calculated move to convince others that he wouldn't be mafia. Suggesting that you're tone reading the fact that he is showing frustration, when one of the two possibilities would indicate that he isn't obligated to tell the truth about his emotions to begin which is illogical. I don't really see how your knowledge of Fecal is really relevant.

On March 04 2015 01:02 Half the Sky wrote:
Kita and LS, since you're both here, let's talk about Damdred.

I'm TRing SL and he found something off with Damdred as well. I had a hunch on him earlier since he commented on my opening WAY after others expressed reservation but my latest concern is his read on you, LS. It reeks too much of the way he tried pushing you in Titanic, and he was scum that game. He should know how tentative you sound which is probably why I'm leaning scum on him. Thoughts?


Like I said before, nothing really specific aside from a couple "things scum say" statements.

"fuck the device we are scum hunting to figure out a shot."
"I will yolo shoot you so please actually contribute now"
"This is extremely frustrating"
"I'm sleeping now have lots of good content"

I don't put much merit into your connection to titanic. It seems like he plays with the idea that LS might be a good shot target, LS's posts disappear so there isn't an opportunity to make much further of an argument and he leaves the thread. I would need more info here to draw a conclusion like that.

I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
LightningStrike
Profile Joined February 2011
United States14277 Posts
March 03 2015 16:24 GMT
#776
On March 04 2015 01:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I was referring to the fact the case was terrible and not good.

I was thought it was good but than again I can't make a good case on anyone except my best case on someone being with legit reasons was Prplhz but he was a low hanging fruit Mafia.
May the next light shine/Former #1 Alliance LoL fan/ Current Teamliquid LoL Fan
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
March 03 2015 16:27 GMT
#777
On March 04 2015 01:22 geript wrote:
I'm more wait and see on Damdred.

@Rayn. Think about the sprirts. And think about Ssndroba. That's all I'm going to say.
Koshi is dead to me.
Kita. Idk. I just idk. There was one point he made that I really liked but I forgot it. Idk. Hard to focus.

Don't lose your focus now.
We are not going to shoot Koshi and i don't care about sandroba now.
We are shooting your mom.
table for two on a tv tray
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
March 03 2015 16:29 GMT
#778
I actually think the guy is eden but eh. I don't remember any actual thoughts on him.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
March 03 2015 16:30 GMT
#779
He is not eden.
table for two on a tv tray
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
March 03 2015 16:31 GMT
#780
On March 04 2015 01:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
He is not eden.


I guessed JAT earlier, but I could be wrong on that.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
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