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On February 16 2015 12:23 Hier wrote:
I was excited seeing so many new posts, turns out it was for naught. A lot of people are requesting that I provide further reads. I am going to point out that as off right now ElyAs, zlefin, jarjarbinks, and Trfel have not a single scum read with justification between them. Instead what we have from them is a mass of neutral to townish reads that they aren’t willing to commit to, opting to wait for more posts from other people by asking for their reads.
I have provided my prime scum read with justification. Of course rsoultin may just not be very good at the game, which is fine, but I’ll stand by my claim. The Shining’s scum read on zlefin isn’t without rationale, but I suspect the second mafia player to be one of the two inactive players. I do not have a solid town read, in fact it doesn’t make sense to, and stating you are neutral about that guy and that guy isn’t productive.
Hier, if you are in fact town, this is not how you should be playing. I don't really want to lynch you at the moment, but if you keep posting like this, that could change very quickly.
Just because some people haven't given scumreads yet doesn't mean that that is acceptable.
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Rsoultin, are you suspicious of anyone other than Hier?
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On February 16 2015 13:10 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 12:54 Trfel wrote:
Rsoultin, are you suspicious of anyone other than Hier? I've already answered this, Trfel, lol. I'm getting more and more of a scum feel from Hier...though I do want to know what it is about Elyas' posting that JJB likes. He's making very little impact on me even after a second read-through. Kind of difficult to get any read on the two outliers. I have reasons to townread or at least put slight town leans on everyone but: Hier Elyas Silver Mime!replacement right now, so those would be the ones I'd lynch out of, all things remaining equal. Hier could still change my mind, but his reluctance to actually engage with not just me, but most of the rest of the thread, isn't sitting well.
Hm, that's ironic, I just finished reading ElyAs's filter and deciding that I don't want to lynch him at the moment.
I still feel that the events of the later portion of today (24 hour day, not mafia day) have been much more valuable then the preceding events. Thus, people's posting recently and in the future is probably much more important than posts before then. So I could see myself lynching ElyAs, zlefin, or Hier, depending on how they play over the next 18 hours or so.
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On February 16 2015 13:48 Silverarte wrote:
Curses Jarjar! You and this posting before others do thing! XD
One question is what does BOD mean? (This is purely because I honestly don't know what this means).
Two, impact or not, there's still a lot of reluctance in direct participation going on. This is bothersome.
(Also, post to come with my work schedule and times I'll be around for you guys. =P)
BOD is benefit of the doubt.
I guess, Silverarte, I found some parts of your post kind of hard to understand. Like the part where you stopped your sentence in the middle. I was interested in hearing what you wanted to say there....
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On February 16 2015 13:57 Silverarte wrote:
Oh shoot Trfel. Did I do that? I thought I fixed that. Give me just a moment and I'll fix that issue. Sorry about that!
Please don't shoot me......
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I'm watching the EOD for Titanic Mafia, I'll get back to you in a bit. But thanks a bunch for clarifying.
Did you want my thoughts on Hier's opening, or my thoughts on the game in general? The latter, I would simply link a post I made towards the bottom of last page (could see myself lynching Hier, ElyAs, zlefin). Though if I get a chance to take a more detailed look, that could change.
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On February 16 2015 14:10 Silverarte wrote:
I did see your previous post on that. I wasn't sure if that had changed, so I did partly want to know that. But I'd love your thoughts on Hier's opening and after.
I believe that Heir's suggestion has been talked about plenty.
I don't think that people's responses to it are alignment indicative, except perhaps a townlean to jarjarbinks. As for Hier himself, perhaps a very slight townlean, but given the rest of his play so far, I could see myself lynching him, I suppose.
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Rsoultin, please forgive me if I missed it, it's late here and I'm about to go to sleep and I'm too lazy to double check.....
but why are you townreading The Shining? (not to disagree, but because I want to know)
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On February 16 2015 14:28 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 14:25 Trfel wrote:
Rsoultin, please forgive me if I missed it, it's late here and I'm about to go to sleep and I'm too lazy to double check.....
but why are you townreading The Shining? (not to disagree, but because I want to know) I didn't specify, so it's cool. I agree with JJB in that he's active and probing, though I'm not sure I agree with Shining on Zel...dude I can't remember people's names lol. To be honest, though, it's just a town lean, cause I'm still wary of him fooling me last game I played with him xP He just seems invested in the game this time.
Allow me to start this by saying that I know basically nothing about The Shining's meta...
Upon twice rereading The Shining's filter, I'm slowly becoming more inclined to scumread him. I guess I'm feeling half asleep, so maybe it isn't wise to post this now, but eh...
I don't really like why he is immediately so suspicious of me. Just because I rolled scum in the last game he played? It just doesn't make sense, regardless of his alignment. I also feel that her read on rsoultin is rather weak. Rsoultin has (despite her statements to the contrary) shown that she has a capable scum game, so early game questioning and poking is entirely to be expected from her and I do not believe it is alignment indicative. Looking for a better reason. Then there is the townread on Hier for doing something unique early in the game, and I've already stated that I don't find it that alignment indicative.
From there, The Shining starts a small push on zlefin.
On February 16 2015 07:32 The Shining wrote:
Zlefin has a couple of posts that lead nowhere and weak and unexplained reads. Mentions WIFOM, game voting rules, some parroting. Says Hier and RSo could both be town or both be scum but wont commit to his reads. Seems to be all for policy lynching inactives when there were only 2. How likely is it both scum members are inactive? Likely my leading candidate for a shot at D1 scum lynch. This just feels weak. Initially I felt that The Shining was actively making a read, just one that I disagreed with, but now I'm not so sure. I'm thinking that The Shining is better than this case. The things that are wrong with it:
- Mentioning WIFOM, voting rules, and parroting is in no way scum behavior. Same with policy lynching (which ironically also exists in The Shining's filter). These things are in nature not alignment indicative.
- He gave reasonable commitment to his reads on rsoultin and Hier for this point in the game. I don't see his self-acknowledged doubt as scummy, more like an inexperienced and therefore unsure townie.
- I didn't get the impression that zlefin is only going to policy lynch from reading his filter. I'm not sure where The Shining is getting this from, but I'm not convinced.
On February 16 2015 12:11 The Shining wrote:
JJB if you're most worried at first glance about Zf and myself, ask yourself this:
Would I bus my partner D1 while no one but me is pressuring him? He's my top scumread with what's been put into the thread so far. And it might be WIFOM to think I'd light pressure him so that if he does ever flip scum, it'd buy me town cred. But if that was the case, I wouldn't have later commented on the fact that no one else commented on my Zfelin case. I forced it. Scum Shining would just leave it be and if he does flip, I'd be able to go "oh look I called that D1."
So I'm now waiting on Hiers defense, JJbs top scumread and Ely to swing by with a little more than that. I'm assuming you (ElyAs) dozing off now means you'll revisit the RSo Hier exchange with fresh eyes in the morning? BEFORE EoD?
For what its worth, Ely's last post was just a summary of the Hier Rso exchange, a parrot of my questioning Hiers lack of other leads, and an excuse for not giving us more.
Trfel, I really truly hate walls of text. I saw you do it as scum and so did I. I'd scum you for that entire post if I didn't actually read it lmao. And I made that point in the hopes that it would inspire you to do so, Trfel, so I'm glad you obliged. You can see how I was setting it up to see if you were really going to catch up or afk it. And eh, in a game where everyone is on opposite ends of the activity spectrum(very actively posting or lurking along, no mid ground), I feel its my best shot. Policy lynch talk and weak reads and no other talk of lynches shows a disinterest...I know I'd be a bit disinterested if I rolled scum in a newbie game.
Oh wait, I did. And I was. Last game. Lol. The first part of this post is rather defensive. Even ignoring the fact that the suspicion answered in this post was already retracted, The Shining clearly doesn't want to be scumread. Obviously town also wants to be townread, but it still seems a bit strange. And I don't understand the last paragraph at all, it makes no sense. Is The Shining scumreading me or not, and why?
I guess this makes me want to add The Shining to my pool of "could potentially lynch on Day 1" people. Anyone care to give me a sanity check?
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Hier, many people have asked you a variety of questions since the game started. Rsoultin isn't the only one. But we mostly stopped when most of them went unanswered (what else should we do? lol). Believe me, several of us are still at least somewhat suspicious of you, myself included.
If what you really want is some space to go and focus on people other than rsoultin, I understand that. But if you don't adequately respond to the questions asked of you over the last several pages (or at least the more important ones) and fail to do anything else that makes you seem less scummy, I could very well vote for you.
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On February 16 2015 14:54 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 14:53 Hier wrote:
By the way, for the sake of pronoun consistency, as I understand it, rsoultin, The Shining, and Mimeux are women, and the rest are men. Is that right? Apologies if I am making a mistake. Shining is male. It's like "The Shining" with Jack Nicholson. Not relevant, but lol, I'm sure he's tired of being called a woman ^^
Ok good, I was scared for a second.
Who else is female then? Now that it has been brought up, I'm scared that I am wrong.....
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On February 16 2015 14:56 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 14:54 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 14:53 Hier wrote:
By the way, for the sake of pronoun consistency, as I understand it, rsoultin, The Shining, and Mimeux are women, and the rest are men. Is that right? Apologies if I am making a mistake. Shining is male. It's like "The Shining" with Jack Nicholson. Not relevant, but lol, I'm sure he's tired of being called a woman ^^ Ok. I just noticed Trfel refer to him as "her".
Did I really? I knew that The Shining was male.
Ick, maybe I really ought to go to bed.
My most sincere apologies to anyone who I used an incorrect pronoun for.
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On February 16 2015 14:58 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 14:56 Hier wrote:On February 16 2015 14:54 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 14:53 Hier wrote:
By the way, for the sake of pronoun consistency, as I understand it, rsoultin, The Shining, and Mimeux are women, and the rest are men. Is that right? Apologies if I am making a mistake. Shining is male. It's like "The Shining" with Jack Nicholson. Not relevant, but lol, I'm sure he's tired of being called a woman ^^ Ok. I just noticed Trfel refer to him as "her". Did I really? I knew that The Shining was male. Ick, maybe I really ought to go to bed. My most sincere apologies to anyone who I used an incorrect pronoun for.
Darn it, you're right, I actually called The Shining both "him" and "her" in the same post. Oh my.
As much as I'd like to stay up and talk, that does it. Bedtime for me. And I'd probably better retract everything I said over the last hour or so for safety, I'll take another look at The Shining in the morning, when I am (hopefully) a little more sane.
The Shining, I'm really quite sorry about that.
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On February 16 2015 14:59 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 14:57 Trfel wrote:On February 16 2015 14:54 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 14:53 Hier wrote:
By the way, for the sake of pronoun consistency, as I understand it, rsoultin, The Shining, and Mimeux are women, and the rest are men. Is that right? Apologies if I am making a mistake. Shining is male. It's like "The Shining" with Jack Nicholson. Not relevant, but lol, I'm sure he's tired of being called a woman ^^ Ok good, I was scared for a second. Who else is female then? Now that it has been brought up, I'm scared that I am wrong..... Far as I know just silver and I, since mime is being replaced. I love how this thread has derailed xP
Ok good, I thought it was Silverarte.
Hier, any thoughts you have on the thread are appreciated. Even if you want to post a huge wall of null reads, I would appreciate that (rsoultin and The Shining would probably start screaming for your head, but I would look at the content first...). I'm sure that rsoultin would let up on you for the moment if you provide some content and scumhunting to the thread.
Though I do need to reread my comments on The Shining in the morning, if anyone wanted to comment on The Shining (with or without reference to my comments), that would be appreciated.
Good night.
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Hi Tere.
On Hier, for now I am thinking that he is more likely to be town than scum. There is a definite difference between bad play and mafia, and while I don't see Hier's play as being particularly beneficial to town, I don't really see it being mafia-motivated.
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On February 17 2015 00:24 rsoultin wrote:
Truffle, time to test that mindmeld...
what did you think I was doing with the push on Hier?
Pretty sure you were creating pressure from very little to get the thread going. I didn't say that earlier because saying so would defeat the purpose, as people could then refuse to respond.
Which is precisely the reason why Hier's case on you (rsoultin) falls apart. While the points he brought up are good points, this is the simple explanation from a town perspective.
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On February 17 2015 00:30 rsoultin wrote:
tere, why was mime (the player you replaced) nervous to post? xP
Uh............
Tere, don't answer this question? XD
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On February 17 2015 00:35 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 00:33 Trfel wrote:On February 17 2015 00:30 rsoultin wrote:
tere, why was mime (the player you replaced) nervous to post? xP Uh............ Tere, don't answer this question? XD Lol -amused- I wanted to see how flustered Tere got -flicks trfel- ruining my schemes ^^
You know very well why I posted that.
No need to read my original post on The Shining, the new version is coming very soon.
I still think we are largely in the same place. Just that we are interpreting the information slightly differently with regards to Hier. I'll take another look at Hier after I finish with The Shining.
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On February 17 2015 00:35 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 00:02 Trfel wrote:
Hi Tere.
On Hier, for now I am thinking that he is more likely to be town than scum. There is a definite difference between bad play and mafia, and while I don't see Hier's play as being particularly beneficial to town, I don't really see it being mafia-motivated. Just want to be clear on what you're saying: you're saying you have a town read on him, which, given the baseline probability of 77% of him being town, you're placing the odds of him being town at higher than that? I ask because the statement "more likely to be town than scum" would technically be true of someone who had a 51% chance of being town.
I don't mean to specify an exact percentage, but I generally meant the latter option.
Basically, I mean to say that Hier doesn't look good, but (pending another reread) I don't really want to lynch him yet.
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Okay, time for a revised post on The Shining, hopefully I'm a little more awake now.
- The Shining seems very suspicious of me early on in the game, the reason being that I was scum in the last game that he played. This reason doesn't make any sense to me, but it doesn't seem significantly more likely to come from one alignment than the other. That said, I would like to have it explained.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2015 07:32 The Shining wrote:
Trfel I'm a little biased against because I scummed with him last game and although I do agree with Ely saying him hiding it would have been way more suspicious, controversial start for Trfel seems to not be alignment indicative. Def wouldn't town him for it. And he tried to push discussion last game, too. Null, must see more. Note that I am not saying that it is suspicious that The Shining isn't townreading me, but that the reasoning is strange.
- The Shining's townread on rsoultin is very poor. He has played with rsoultin twice before, and ought to know that rsoultin asking questions is something that will happen regardless of rsoultin's alignment.
- The Shining's push on zlefin is rather poor, and I expected better.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2015 07:32 The Shining wrote:
Zlefin has a couple of posts that lead nowhere and weak and unexplained reads. Mentions WIFOM, game voting rules, some parroting. Says Hier and RSo could both be town or both be scum but wont commit to his reads. Seems to be all for policy lynching inactives when there were only 2. How likely is it both scum members are inactive? Likely my leading candidate for a shot at D1 scum lynch. This is the original case. And the points in it are incorrect. Mentioning WIFOM and game voting rules is definitely not alignment indicative. Zlefin's reads on Hier and rsoultin had a reasonable amount of commitment for an unsure townie at an early stage in the game. I also don't see zlefin only going after inactives. Several of zlefin's posts suggest that he is actively scumhunting. On February 16 2015 09:07 The Shining wrote:
Um, is no one going to even remotely address my slight push on Zlefin? Odd. Why did The Shining clarify that the push is slight? If it's a pressure push, then saying that it is a slight push is horrid. And if it's a serious push, then it isn't slight. The comment just seems like The Shining wants to distance himself from his push a little, while still seeming possessive ("Hey, look at me, I'm doing something, but if it goes badly, don't blame me for it!"). On February 16 2015 12:20 The Shining wrote:
Also, so it's not a surprise.
Vote Zlefin
That's in voting thread. I'll be here at EOD, I'm off of work tomorrow and I don't like the lack of response. Could be inactivity, IRL stuff or just lurking but...my vote is where it is at. Zlefin didn't post in between these three quoted posts. I'm not sure what caused this push to change from a slight push to a vote.
- The Shining seems overly defensive and shows a very strange, ambiguous stance on me (Trfel).
+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2015 12:11 The Shining wrote:
JJB if you're most worried at first glance about Zf and myself, ask yourself this:
Would I bus my partner D1 while no one but me is pressuring him? He's my top scumread with what's been put into the thread so far. And it might be WIFOM to think I'd light pressure him so that if he does ever flip scum, it'd buy me town cred. But if that was the case, I wouldn't have later commented on the fact that no one else commented on my Zfelin case. I forced it. Scum Shining would just leave it be and if he does flip, I'd be able to go "oh look I called that D1."
So I'm now waiting on Hiers defense, JJbs top scumread and Ely to swing by with a little more than that. I'm assuming you (ElyAs) dozing off now means you'll revisit the RSo Hier exchange with fresh eyes in the morning? BEFORE EoD?
For what its worth, Ely's last post was just a summary of the Hier Rso exchange, a parrot of my questioning Hiers lack of other leads, and an excuse for not giving us more.
Trfel, I really truly hate walls of text. I saw you do it as scum and so did I. I'd scum you for that entire post if I didn't actually read it lmao. And I made that point in the hopes that it would inspire you to do so, Trfel, so I'm glad you obliged. You can see how I was setting it up to see if you were really going to catch up or afk it. And eh, in a game where everyone is on opposite ends of the activity spectrum(very actively posting or lurking along, no mid ground), I feel its my best shot. Policy lynch talk and weak reads and no other talk of lynches shows a disinterest...I know I'd be a bit disinterested if I rolled scum in a newbie game.
Oh wait, I did. And I was. Last game. Lol. Ignoring the fact that the comment the first portion of this post is responding to was already retracted, this is still extremely defensive for an off-hand comment. While town obviously has incentive to be townread and survive, this seems overly so. The last paragraph makes no sense to me. I can't tell if I (Trfel) am being townread, scumread, or what, and I can't tell the reasoning for it. Why can't The Shining form a clear opinion of whether I am town or scum? (or null, for that matter?)
In addition to this, some of The Shining's other posts seem to show genuine scumhunting and thinking. So I am not entirely sure on The Shining. I would definitely like to hear people's thoughts, including The Shining's.
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EPT
